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 Oilers recall Jones [message #746787]
Wed, 13 November 2019 16:30 Go to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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Quote:

The Oilers recalled Jones from AHL Bakersfield on Wednesday.

Edmonton placed Brandon Manning (hand) on injured reserve in a corresponding move, so Jones is likely in for an extended stay with the big club. The 22-year-old blueliner has racked up 10 points in 13 games with Bakersfield this campaign.


This is the correct move imo. Manning should be done with the Oilers. There's not really much else for Jones to do in the AHL, and it's time to learn if he can earn a regular spot in the NHL.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/hockey/news/oilers-caleb-j ones-recalled-by-edmonton/

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746788 is a reply to message #746787 ]
Wed, 13 November 2019 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Wed, 13 November 2019 16:30

Quote:

The Oilers recalled Jones from AHL Bakersfield on Wednesday.

Edmonton placed Brandon Manning (hand) on injured reserve in a corresponding move, so Jones is likely in for an extended stay with the big club. The 22-year-old blueliner has racked up 10 points in 13 games with Bakersfield this campaign.


This is the correct move imo. Manning should be done with the Oilers. There's not really much else for Jones to do in the AHL, and it's time to learn if he can earn a regular spot in the NHL.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/hockey/news/oilers-caleb-j ones-recalled-by-edmonton/

Tip played him last night for his mom and he picks a fight and conveniently breaks his hand. Next up is complications will happen with the hand and he will be done for the year allowing the Oilers to put him on LTIR. GENIUS!!!

[Updated on: Wed, 13 November 2019 16:37]

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746789 is a reply to message #746787 ]
Wed, 13 November 2019 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Looks like it was only done because Manning was injured. Hockey gods having mercy, sparing us from watching a Russell-Manning pairing again. Praise them!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746794 is a reply to message #746787 ]
Wed, 13 November 2019 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
overdue is currently offline overdue
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Will be interesting to see how much of an impact he can have. Bout time.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746795 is a reply to message #746787 ]
Wed, 13 November 2019 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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We'll see about Jones, E. Bear is a miracle, but thinking Jones can walk in and play real NHL minutes would b another miracle, might be better than the way Persson's been playing though.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
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Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746801 is a reply to message #746795 ]
Wed, 13 November 2019 20:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently offline GabbyDugan
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Larsson is supposed to be back in a week or so. A top 6 defender on any NHL team and a right hand shot. His real shortcoming is special teams, but the PK and PP seem to be doing well. While I agree that Jones is at the overripe stage, there might not be room for him just yet in the top 6 D. I don’t think he should be spending most of his time in the press box.

If only the Oilers had the depth on the third and fourth lines up front that there is on the blue line.


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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746827 is a reply to message #746801 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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Yeah, when Larsson comes back I think you have something like:

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Bear
Russell-Benning/Persson (switch em out based on how they're playing, though I think Persson could really benefit from a touch more seasoning in the A)

Gives each pairing a good puck mover.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746832 is a reply to message #746827 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 10:10

Yeah, when Larsson comes back I think you have something like:

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Bear
Russell-Benning/Persson (switch em out based on how they're playing, though I think Persson could really benefit from a touch more seasoning in the A)

Gives each pairing a good puck mover.


Once Larsson comes back, I would give Persson time in the AHL. I think there is a player there, he just needs time to adjust to the NHL. Strudwick has been talking about how he thinks Persson is a player he's just not in NHL shape as he calls it.

When Larsson comes back and assuming he's OK, the Oilers would have 3 legit decent pairings. Not spectacular but with Bear looking capable of being in the top 4, you'd have 3 pairings with the left-right and no one slotted too high.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746837 is a reply to message #746795 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 13 November 2019 18:10

We'll see about Jones, E. Bear is a miracle, but thinking Jones can walk in and play real NHL minutes would b another miracle, might be better than the way Persson's been playing though.


Sure, but at some point you have to figure out if he's capable of playing in the NHL or not. He's now played 2 full-ish seasons in the AHL, and 17 NHL games last year. He's almost a quarter of the way through his 3rd AHL season, tied for 6th in defenceman scoring and playing 25min a night in all situations.

@WheatNOil has been tracking AHL games this season, and Jones is the Condors #1 defenceman, and looks good by almost any metric. Here are some highlights, link to the whole thread at the bottom:

Quote:


Average TOI (all situations except for goalie-pulled)
Jones - 25:13
Lowe - 22:25
Bouchard - 22:20
Lagesson - 19:51 (2 games)
Day - 16:47 (1 game)
Kulevich - 16:40 (AHL contract)
Samorukov - 12:10
Corbett - 9:29 (2 games, AHL)
Desharnais - 6:42 (2 games, AHL)

Controlled Exits % (5x5 only, min 5 games)
Jones - 63.5%
Bouchard - 58.2%
Kulevich - 51.4%
Samorukov - 41.4%
Lowe - 40.7%

Controlled Exits / 60
Jones - 19.0
Bouchard - 16.6
Kulevich - 10.5
Lowe - 10.4
Samorukov - 8.8

Controlled Entries Against % (lower number means they defend their own blue line better and either force more dump-ins or break up entries entirely)

Kulevich - 30%
Bouchard - 38.7%
Jones - 41.5%
Lowe - 43.3%
Samorukov - 52%

Anyways, Jones has been very good in the games I tracked and Woodcroft leans on him in all situations. I’m not sure there’s much left for him to prove at the AHL level. He’s a #1D in the AHL at the age of 22 in his last year of his ELC.


https://twitter.com/WheatNOil/status/1194792512533098496

I still maintain that one of the few trades that I think the Oilers can win is moving Nurse for a forward, and figuring out what Jones is capable of makes that decision a lot easier.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746841 is a reply to message #746837 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Goose wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 10:52

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 13 November 2019 18:10

We'll see about Jones, E. Bear is a miracle, but thinking Jones can walk in and play real NHL minutes would b another miracle, might be better than the way Persson's been playing though.


Sure, but at some point you have to figure out if he's capable of playing in the NHL or not. He's now played 2 full-ish seasons in the AHL, and 17 NHL games last year. He's almost a quarter of the way through his 3rd AHL season, tied for 6th in defenceman scoring and playing 25min a night in all situations.

@WheatNOil has been tracking AHL games this season, and Jones is the Condors #1 defenceman, and looks good by almost any metric. Here are some highlights, link to the whole thread at the bottom:

Quote:


Average TOI (all situations except for goalie-pulled)
Jones - 25:13
Lowe - 22:25
Bouchard - 22:20
Lagesson - 19:51 (2 games)
Day - 16:47 (1 game)
Kulevich - 16:40 (AHL contract)
Samorukov - 12:10
Corbett - 9:29 (2 games, AHL)
Desharnais - 6:42 (2 games, AHL)

Controlled Exits % (5x5 only, min 5 games)
Jones - 63.5%
Bouchard - 58.2%
Kulevich - 51.4%
Samorukov - 41.4%
Lowe - 40.7%

Controlled Exits / 60
Jones - 19.0
Bouchard - 16.6
Kulevich - 10.5
Lowe - 10.4
Samorukov - 8.8

Controlled Entries Against % (lower number means they defend their own blue line better and either force more dump-ins or break up entries entirely)

Kulevich - 30%
Bouchard - 38.7%
Jones - 41.5%
Lowe - 43.3%
Samorukov - 52%

Anyways, Jones has been very good in the games I tracked and Woodcroft leans on him in all situations. I’m not sure there’s much left for him to prove at the AHL level. He’s a #1D in the AHL at the age of 22 in his last year of his ELC.


https://twitter.com/WheatNOil/status/1194792512533098496

I still maintain that one of the few trades that I think the Oilers can win is moving Nurse for a forward, and figuring out what Jones is capable of makes that decision a lot easier.


Nice stats. Liking those Bouchard ones too.

Fingers crossed that Jones can ensure the end of the Russell era.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746842 is a reply to message #746837 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 10:52

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 13 November 2019 18:10

We'll see about Jones, E. Bear is a miracle, but thinking Jones can walk in and play real NHL minutes would b another miracle, might be better than the way Persson's been playing though.


Sure, but at some point you have to figure out if he's capable of playing in the NHL or not. He's now played 2 full-ish seasons in the AHL, and 17 NHL games last year. He's almost a quarter of the way through his 3rd AHL season, tied for 6th in defenceman scoring and playing 25min a night in all situations.

@WheatNOil has been tracking AHL games this season, and Jones is the Condors #1 defenceman, and looks good by almost any metric. Here are some highlights, link to the whole thread at the bottom:

Quote:


Average TOI (all situations except for goalie-pulled)
Jones - 25:13
Lowe - 22:25
Bouchard - 22:20
Lagesson - 19:51 (2 games)
Day - 16:47 (1 game)
Kulevich - 16:40 (AHL contract)
Samorukov - 12:10
Corbett - 9:29 (2 games, AHL)
Desharnais - 6:42 (2 games, AHL)

Controlled Exits % (5x5 only, min 5 games)
Jones - 63.5%
Bouchard - 58.2%
Kulevich - 51.4%
Samorukov - 41.4%
Lowe - 40.7%

Controlled Exits / 60
Jones - 19.0
Bouchard - 16.6
Kulevich - 10.5
Lowe - 10.4
Samorukov - 8.8

Controlled Entries Against % (lower number means they defend their own blue line better and either force more dump-ins or break up entries entirely)

Kulevich - 30%
Bouchard - 38.7%
Jones - 41.5%
Lowe - 43.3%
Samorukov - 52%

Anyways, Jones has been very good in the games I tracked and Woodcroft leans on him in all situations. I’m not sure there’s much left for him to prove at the AHL level. He’s a #1D in the AHL at the age of 22 in his last year of his ELC.


https://twitter.com/WheatNOil/status/1194792512533098496

I still maintain that one of the few trades that I think the Oilers can win is moving Nurse for a forward, and figuring out what Jones is capable of makes that decision a lot easier.

I don't see how any team wins a trade where you are getting rid of a 24 yr old, excellent skating, tough, physical, big minute player, can play on both special teams, 30-40 pts dman.

You'd have to get one hell of a forward back to have a chance at winning that trade because as soon as you trade Nurse, you are looking for Nurse. If he was right handed, his name would never get mentioned.

I am curious to know who you think would be a forward worth trading Nurse for pretending that anyone is available? For me, it would have to be a young, signed for a value contract, proven, really good, top 6 forward. Going out and trading for a Nylander or an Ehlers, guys who on paper are good and can be good when they want too but are inconsistent doesn't do it for me. I don't see a Chia out there in a GM's spot who's stupid enough to trade a Hall type player for Nurse. That is the type of trade you would have to get to make a Nurse trade worth it in my opinion.

[Updated on: Thu, 14 November 2019 11:09]

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746852 is a reply to message #746842 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 10:02



I don't see how any team wins a trade where you are getting rid of a 24 yr old, excellent skating, tough, physical, big minute player, can play on both special teams, 30-40 pts dman.

You'd have to get one hell of a forward back to have a chance at winning that trade because as soon as you trade Nurse, you are looking for Nurse. If he was right handed, his name would never get mentioned.

I am curious to know who you think would be a forward worth trading Nurse for pretending that anyone is available? For me, it would have to be a young, signed for a value contract, proven, really good, top 6 forward. Going out and trading for a Nylander or an Ehlers, guys who on paper are good and can be good when they want too but are inconsistent doesn't do it for me. I don't see a Chia out there in a GM's spot who's stupid enough to trade a Hall type player for Nurse. That is the type of trade you would have to get to make a Nurse trade worth it in my opinion.


Ha, I would kill for the inconsistency of guys with multiple 20 goal/60 point seasons before their 25th birthday. That's basically the definition of top line scoring in the NHL. The 6th best forward on the Oilers is currently on pace for 20 points.

To put another way, the Oilers need more scoring, I don't think that's really in dispute. So if they don't trade a defenceman for one, how are they going to acquire someone? I think the Oilers best option is to trade a defenceman for scoring as they currently have more depth in their system at defence, with 3 or 4 guys that could end up being top-4 defencemen in the next few years. How many potential top 6 forwards do they currently have? Benson is the only guy that you can say is really trending that way right now. Yamamoto might have a chance, but I don't think he's done enough to this point to suggest he'll even be a consistent 50 point NHLer. Is there anyone other than Nurse that they could trade to get a guy like Nylander? Klefbom, sure, but keep in mind I suspect that Nurse is probably going to ask for and likely get $2+M more than Klefbom is currently making (and Klefbom is signed for 3 more years after this, the Oilers really can't afford to move that contract, there's too much value there).

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746854 is a reply to message #746852 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 12:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 10:02



I don't see how any team wins a trade where you are getting rid of a 24 yr old, excellent skating, tough, physical, big minute player, can play on both special teams, 30-40 pts dman.

You'd have to get one hell of a forward back to have a chance at winning that trade because as soon as you trade Nurse, you are looking for Nurse. If he was right handed, his name would never get mentioned.

I am curious to know who you think would be a forward worth trading Nurse for pretending that anyone is available? For me, it would have to be a young, signed for a value contract, proven, really good, top 6 forward. Going out and trading for a Nylander or an Ehlers, guys who on paper are good and can be good when they want too but are inconsistent doesn't do it for me. I don't see a Chia out there in a GM's spot who's stupid enough to trade a Hall type player for Nurse. That is the type of trade you would have to get to make a Nurse trade worth it in my opinion.


Ha, I would kill for the inconsistency of guys with multiple 20 goal/60 point seasons before their 25th birthday. That's basically the definition of top line scoring in the NHL. The 6th best forward on the Oilers is currently on pace for 20 points.

To put another way, the Oilers need more scoring, I don't think that's really in dispute. So if they don't trade a defenceman for one, how are they going to acquire someone? I think the Oilers best option is to trade a defenceman for scoring as they currently have more depth in their system at defence, with 3 or 4 guys that could end up being top-4 defencemen in the next few years. How many potential top 6 forwards do they currently have? Benson is the only guy that you can say is really trending that way right now. Yamamoto might have a chance, but I don't think he's done enough to this point to suggest he'll even be a consistent 50 point NHLer. Is there anyone other than Nurse that they could trade to get a guy like Nylander? Klefbom, sure, but keep in mind I suspect that Nurse is probably going to ask for and likely get $2+M more than Klefbom is currently making (and Klefbom is signed for 3 more years after this, the Oilers really can't afford to move that contract, there's too much value there).






I guess we have way different opinions on the Oilers. I have watched for years and years how the Oilers would draft guys, go through the growing pains of these guys developing and right when they were finally seeing the fruit of all the time and money they invested in a guy, dump them. Winning teams seem to have a bunch of guys on their team in their primes in key positions. The Oilers have the opportunity to have 2 guys, Klef and Nurse who are in their primes be the anchors of their top 2 pairings. Then you offset them with young guys on the right. I think it would be a mistake of epic proportions to trade Nurse. Think Petry. Petry was a decent dman that the Oilers spent years developing but had a few warts and they dumped him. As a Hab, he continued to get better and better. He's exactly what the Oilers have lacked on their defense from the day they traded him.

You ask how you get other forwards without trading Nurse. Look no further than what the Avs did with Barrie. They played him and squeezed all the juices out of him then dumped him to the Leafs for exactly what they needed in Kadri who's a second line center. Barrie has been brutal for the Leafs. If you want to go get Nylander, then you wait until this offseason and you trade for a Nylander or another forward because the Leafs only have 1 Dman signed and need to free up money because they overpaid for Tavarese, Matthews and Marner. So you give up a dirt cheap, NHL ready Jones and a decent pick and you get that forward.

So not only have you upgraded your forwards but you haven't stripped away one of the few Dmen you have who's just entering his prime years.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746863 is a reply to message #746854 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 12:16



I guess we have way different opinions on the Oilers. I have watched for years and years how the Oilers would draft guys, go through the growing pains of these guys developing and right when they were finally seeing the fruit of all the time and money they invested in a guy, dump them. Winning teams seem to have a bunch of guys on their team in their primes in key positions. The Oilers have the opportunity to have 2 guys, Klef and Nurse who are in their primes be the anchors of their top 2 pairings. Then you offset them with young guys on the right. I think it would be a mistake of epic proportions to trade Nurse. Think Petry. Petry was a decent dman that the Oilers spent years developing but had a few warts and they dumped him. As a Hab, he continued to get better and better. He's exactly what the Oilers have lacked on their defense from the day they traded him.

You ask how you get other forwards without trading Nurse. Look no further than what the Avs did with Barrie. They played him and squeezed all the juices out of him then dumped him to the Leafs for exactly what they needed in Kadri who's a second line center. Barrie has been brutal for the Leafs. If you want to go get Nylander, then you wait until this offseason and you trade for a Nylander or another forward because the Leafs only have 1 Dman signed and need to free up money because they overpaid for Tavarese, Matthews and Marner. So you give up a dirt cheap, NHL ready Jones and a decent pick and you get that forward.

So not only have you upgraded your forwards but you haven't stripped away one of the few Dmen you have who's just entering his prime years.


I don't actually disagree with you on Petry at all. I 100% agree the Oilers made that mistake over and over again. Petry is a perfect example. But I'm not talking about trading Nurse for two 2nd round picks. At the same time, I don't think you need to trade Nurse for a future Hart trophy winner in order to win that trade. If they can get a good top 6 winger (and by good, I mean in the range of the guys you mentioned, I wouldn't do it for Boone Jenner), to add scoring depth up front I think that does a lot more to move the team forward than keeping Nurse and hoping Tyler Benson can score 60 points one day (again, I'm basing this on the fact that I think their depth of defensive prospects is much better than for forwards right now).

As to your option of trading Jones and a pick for a guy like Nylander, the Oilers just don't have the cap space to keep a $6M Nurse and add a $6-$7M forward. Looking at Capfriendly, as it sits today they have just over $57M committed for next year already. I don't know how you could add another $10-$12M to that and then sign the other 11 guys they would need to sign. Of course there are other options for moving out salary, but I don't think any of them make the team better (eg. moving RNH for a lesser forward).

At the end of the day, the Oilers still have a lot of holes, and none of these solutions is perfect. It would be great if the Oilers could keep Nurse and add scoring without having a major impact on their cap. But I don't really see a viable way to do that.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746865 is a reply to message #746863 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 14:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Goose wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 14:24

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 12:16



I guess we have way different opinions on the Oilers. I have watched for years and years how the Oilers would draft guys, go through the growing pains of these guys developing and right when they were finally seeing the fruit of all the time and money they invested in a guy, dump them. Winning teams seem to have a bunch of guys on their team in their primes in key positions. The Oilers have the opportunity to have 2 guys, Klef and Nurse who are in their primes be the anchors of their top 2 pairings. Then you offset them with young guys on the right. I think it would be a mistake of epic proportions to trade Nurse. Think Petry. Petry was a decent dman that the Oilers spent years developing but had a few warts and they dumped him. As a Hab, he continued to get better and better. He's exactly what the Oilers have lacked on their defense from the day they traded him.

You ask how you get other forwards without trading Nurse. Look no further than what the Avs did with Barrie. They played him and squeezed all the juices out of him then dumped him to the Leafs for exactly what they needed in Kadri who's a second line center. Barrie has been brutal for the Leafs. If you want to go get Nylander, then you wait until this offseason and you trade for a Nylander or another forward because the Leafs only have 1 Dman signed and need to free up money because they overpaid for Tavarese, Matthews and Marner. So you give up a dirt cheap, NHL ready Jones and a decent pick and you get that forward.

So not only have you upgraded your forwards but you haven't stripped away one of the few Dmen you have who's just entering his prime years.


I don't actually disagree with you on Petry at all. I 100% agree the Oilers made that mistake over and over again. Petry is a perfect example. But I'm not talking about trading Nurse for two 2nd round picks. At the same time, I don't think you need to trade Nurse for a future Hart trophy winner in order to win that trade. If they can get a good top 6 winger (and by good, I mean in the range of the guys you mentioned, I wouldn't do it for Boone Jenner), to add scoring depth up front I think that does a lot more to move the team forward than keeping Nurse and hoping Tyler Benson can score 60 points one day (again, I'm basing this on the fact that I think their depth of defensive prospects is much better than for forwards right now).

As to your option of trading Jones and a pick for a guy like Nylander, the Oilers just don't have the cap space to keep a $6M Nurse and add a $6-$7M forward. Looking at Capfriendly, as it sits today they have just over $57M committed for next year already. I don't know how you could add another $10-$12M to that and then sign the other 11 guys they would need to sign. Of course there are other options for moving out salary, but I don't think any of them make the team better (eg. moving RNH for a lesser forward).

At the end of the day, the Oilers still have a lot of holes, and none of these solutions is perfect. It would be great if the Oilers could keep Nurse and add scoring without having a major impact on their cap. But I don't really see a viable way to do that.

I am of the opinion, that Russell is 100% gone after this year and maybe even at some point this year. His role is being diminished right before his eyes. He will have 1 year left on his deal with a 4 mill cap hit that only pays him 2.5 mill of real money, 1.5 mill after a mid July bonus. That screams bottom feeder team needing cap hit to make the floor but not wanting to pay real money. I look at a team like Ottawa. I bet they aren't on his list. However, that list might change as he sees his minutes going down. He's actually playing decent this year. He would play for them, probably play a lot of minutes and if you look at capfriendly, they are making the floor being propped up by having guys on IR. They have 15.325 mill on IR in Callahan, Gaborik and MacCarthur, guys who won't ever play again. Calahan and MacCarthur are UFA's. So that's 10.45 mill they are using to prop up to get to the bottom that will disappear. The owner doesn't want to give pay any money out and if you look at their defense, Russell could slide into the role of Hainsey, be a higher cap hit but not being paid anything close.

I also think this could be the last year we see Larsson. The Oilers are going towards puck moving. Bear is a revelation for them. Bouchard is getting close. I think there is a player in Persson he just needs a little AHL time and to get in as Strudwick calls NHL shape. I could see him being traded as well.

If one or both of those happen, there is an extra 4 to just over 8 mill in extra space and in reality, their defense probably wouldn't be any worse.

My guess is that you aren't a Nurse fan? I say that because you are suggesting the Oiler trade away a good, top 4, young, just coming into his prime, skate like the wind, play in all situations, big minute, big, tough, physical dman who just so happens to be one of the captains and your franchises players best buddies who's also an assistant captain for a complimentary winger. You aren't getting a top line winger for Nurse, he's a good player but he's not that good. Not unless Chia takes over a team and does another stupid Hall type trade. So the only way your trade makes any kind of sense is if you just don't like the player and want him gone. Dmen, especially big minute dmen, are usually more important to a team than a second line winger so it my mind, it's pretty hard for the Oilers to not lose a Nurse trade.

[Updated on: Thu, 14 November 2019 14:51]

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746867 is a reply to message #746865 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 13:38



I also think this could be the last year we see Larsson. The Oilers are going towards puck moving. Bear is a revelation for them. Bouchard is getting close. I think there is a player in Persson he just needs a little AHL time and to get in as Strudwick calls NHL shape. I could see him being traded as well.

If one or both of those happen, there is an extra 4 to just over 8 mill in extra space and in reality, their defense probably wouldn't be any worse.

My guess is that you aren't a Nurse fan? I say that because you are suggesting the Oiler trade away a good, top 4, young, just coming into his prime, skate like the wind, play in all situations, big minute, big, tough, physical dman who just so happens to be one of the captains and your franchises players best buddies who's also an assistant captain for a complimentary winger. You aren't getting a top line winger for Nurse, he's a good player but he's not that good. Not unless Chia takes over a team and does another stupid Hall type trade. So the only way your trade makes any kind of sense is if you just don't like the player and want him gone. Dmen, especially big minute dmen, are usually more important to a team than a second line winger so it my mind, it's pretty hard for the Oilers to not lose a Nurse trade.


I mean, I literally just said that I would only be looking to trade Nurse for a good player, and not just any warm body, but go ahead and invent whatever opinions you think I have of Nurse that make your argument look better.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #747108 is a reply to message #746854 ]
Tue, 19 November 2019 08:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 13:16

Goose wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 12:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 10:02



I don't see how any team wins a trade where you are getting rid of a 24 yr old, excellent skating, tough, physical, big minute player, can play on both special teams, 30-40 pts dman.

You'd have to get one hell of a forward back to have a chance at winning that trade because as soon as you trade Nurse, you are looking for Nurse. If he was right handed, his name would never get mentioned.

I am curious to know who you think would be a forward worth trading Nurse for pretending that anyone is available? For me, it would have to be a young, signed for a value contract, proven, really good, top 6 forward. Going out and trading for a Nylander or an Ehlers, guys who on paper are good and can be good when they want too but are inconsistent doesn't do it for me. I don't see a Chia out there in a GM's spot who's stupid enough to trade a Hall type player for Nurse. That is the type of trade you would have to get to make a Nurse trade worth it in my opinion.


Ha, I would kill for the inconsistency of guys with multiple 20 goal/60 point seasons before their 25th birthday. That's basically the definition of top line scoring in the NHL. The 6th best forward on the Oilers is currently on pace for 20 points.

To put another way, the Oilers need more scoring, I don't think that's really in dispute. So if they don't trade a defenceman for one, how are they going to acquire someone? I think the Oilers best option is to trade a defenceman for scoring as they currently have more depth in their system at defence, with 3 or 4 guys that could end up being top-4 defencemen in the next few years. How many potential top 6 forwards do they currently have? Benson is the only guy that you can say is really trending that way right now. Yamamoto might have a chance, but I don't think he's done enough to this point to suggest he'll even be a consistent 50 point NHLer. Is there anyone other than Nurse that they could trade to get a guy like Nylander? Klefbom, sure, but keep in mind I suspect that Nurse is probably going to ask for and likely get $2+M more than Klefbom is currently making (and Klefbom is signed for 3 more years after this, the Oilers really can't afford to move that contract, there's too much value there).






I guess we have way different opinions on the Oilers. I have watched for years and years how the Oilers would draft guys, go through the growing pains of these guys developing and right when they were finally seeing the fruit of all the time and money they invested in a guy, dump them. Winning teams seem to have a bunch of guys on their team in their primes in key positions. The Oilers have the opportunity to have 2 guys, Klef and Nurse who are in their primes be the anchors of their top 2 pairings. Then you offset them with young guys on the right. I think it would be a mistake of epic proportions to trade Nurse. Think Petry. Petry was a decent dman that the Oilers spent years developing but had a few warts and they dumped him. As a Hab, he continued to get better and better. He's exactly what the Oilers have lacked on their defense from the day they traded him.

You ask how you get other forwards without trading Nurse. Look no further than what the Avs did with Barrie. They played him and squeezed all the juices out of him then dumped him to the Leafs for exactly what they needed in Kadri who's a second line center. Barrie has been brutal for the Leafs. If you want to go get Nylander, then you wait until this offseason and you trade for a Nylander or another forward because the Leafs only have 1 Dman signed and need to free up money because they overpaid for Tavarese, Matthews and Marner. So you give up a dirt cheap, NHL ready Jones and a decent pick and you get that forward.

So not only have you upgraded your forwards but you haven't stripped away one of the few Dmen you have who's just entering his prime years.


The big mistake the Oilers made with Petry wasn't just trading him. Everyone on your team (well, almost everyone if you have McDavid on your side) should always be available if the right deal is there. Anyone suggesting that Nurse should be traded for a 5th round pick and a tentative 2nd/3rd round pick should be fired immediately.

That said, there are only so many defence slots so if it looks like you've got more left-shot defence than you can play, eventually something has to give.

The Oilers have a front row seat on the development of all these players, and hopefully they're examining them from an objective point of view. If they have to trade someone, then they need to look at what the ceiling of the player most likely is, as well as what can they get back via trade for that player. If they believe Jones can be close to what Nurse is in the near term, then you have to consider that he's the cheaper option and Nurse can get you a real return, whereas a prospect will get you, at best, another good prospect or pick usually.

Now, the problem is that the Oilers haven't been very good at assessing talent - Gustafsson and Marino are showing that the organization doesn't necessarily see it even when right in front of them and even Martin Marincin is a case study in organizational mistakes - Eric Gryba was older, more expensive and less effective and is now gone, while Marincin continues to be a borderline NHLer for the team we traded him to. Because of that, I have little faith in the Oilers ability to assess the ceilings properly and make the right move, but moves are coming. The defence is jam-packed with options and prospects and they can't all have roster spots on the Edmonton Oilers. Meanwhile, we still have two lines filled with minor leaguers on our NHL roster - so at some point that has to be addressed too.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #747110 is a reply to message #747108 ]
Tue, 19 November 2019 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 08:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 13:16

Goose wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 12:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 10:02



I don't see how any team wins a trade where you are getting rid of a 24 yr old, excellent skating, tough, physical, big minute player, can play on both special teams, 30-40 pts dman.

You'd have to get one hell of a forward back to have a chance at winning that trade because as soon as you trade Nurse, you are looking for Nurse. If he was right handed, his name would never get mentioned.

I am curious to know who you think would be a forward worth trading Nurse for pretending that anyone is available? For me, it would have to be a young, signed for a value contract, proven, really good, top 6 forward. Going out and trading for a Nylander or an Ehlers, guys who on paper are good and can be good when they want too but are inconsistent doesn't do it for me. I don't see a Chia out there in a GM's spot who's stupid enough to trade a Hall type player for Nurse. That is the type of trade you would have to get to make a Nurse trade worth it in my opinion.


Ha, I would kill for the inconsistency of guys with multiple 20 goal/60 point seasons before their 25th birthday. That's basically the definition of top line scoring in the NHL. The 6th best forward on the Oilers is currently on pace for 20 points.

To put another way, the Oilers need more scoring, I don't think that's really in dispute. So if they don't trade a defenceman for one, how are they going to acquire someone? I think the Oilers best option is to trade a defenceman for scoring as they currently have more depth in their system at defence, with 3 or 4 guys that could end up being top-4 defencemen in the next few years. How many potential top 6 forwards do they currently have? Benson is the only guy that you can say is really trending that way right now. Yamamoto might have a chance, but I don't think he's done enough to this point to suggest he'll even be a consistent 50 point NHLer. Is there anyone other than Nurse that they could trade to get a guy like Nylander? Klefbom, sure, but keep in mind I suspect that Nurse is probably going to ask for and likely get $2+M more than Klefbom is currently making (and Klefbom is signed for 3 more years after this, the Oilers really can't afford to move that contract, there's too much value there).






I guess we have way different opinions on the Oilers. I have watched for years and years how the Oilers would draft guys, go through the growing pains of these guys developing and right when they were finally seeing the fruit of all the time and money they invested in a guy, dump them. Winning teams seem to have a bunch of guys on their team in their primes in key positions. The Oilers have the opportunity to have 2 guys, Klef and Nurse who are in their primes be the anchors of their top 2 pairings. Then you offset them with young guys on the right. I think it would be a mistake of epic proportions to trade Nurse. Think Petry. Petry was a decent dman that the Oilers spent years developing but had a few warts and they dumped him. As a Hab, he continued to get better and better. He's exactly what the Oilers have lacked on their defense from the day they traded him.

You ask how you get other forwards without trading Nurse. Look no further than what the Avs did with Barrie. They played him and squeezed all the juices out of him then dumped him to the Leafs for exactly what they needed in Kadri who's a second line center. Barrie has been brutal for the Leafs. If you want to go get Nylander, then you wait until this offseason and you trade for a Nylander or another forward because the Leafs only have 1 Dman signed and need to free up money because they overpaid for Tavarese, Matthews and Marner. So you give up a dirt cheap, NHL ready Jones and a decent pick and you get that forward.

So not only have you upgraded your forwards but you haven't stripped away one of the few Dmen you have who's just entering his prime years.


The big mistake the Oilers made with Petry wasn't just trading him. Everyone on your team (well, almost everyone if you have McDavid on your side) should always be available if the right deal is there. Anyone suggesting that Nurse should be traded for a 5th round pick and a tentative 2nd/3rd round pick should be fired immediately.

That said, there are only so many defence slots so if it looks like you've got more left-shot defence than you can play, eventually something has to give.

The Oilers have a front row seat on the development of all these players, and hopefully they're examining them from an objective point of view. If they have to trade someone, then they need to look at what the ceiling of the player most likely is, as well as what can they get back via trade for that player. If they believe Jones can be close to what Nurse is in the near term, then you have to consider that he's the cheaper option and Nurse can get you a real return, whereas a prospect will get you, at best, another good prospect or pick usually.

Now, the problem is that the Oilers haven't been very good at assessing talent - Gustafsson and Marino are showing that the organization doesn't necessarily see it even when right in front of them and even Martin Marincin is a case study in organizational mistakes - Eric Gryba was older, more expensive and less effective and is now gone, while Marincin continues to be a borderline NHLer for the team we traded him to. Because of that, I have little faith in the Oilers ability to assess the ceilings properly and make the right move, but moves are coming. The defence is jam-packed with options and prospects and they can't all have roster spots on the Edmonton Oilers. Meanwhile, we still have two lines filled with minor leaguers on our NHL roster - so at some point that has to be addressed too.

I disagree with you a bit on being able to assess talent. You are 100% correct, they screwed up on Gustafsson, they should have signed him. But the organization recognized that he had potential and drafted he. He was a 4th rounder. They recognized Bear and Jones were talents that were drafted later. They recognized that Marion who was a 6th round pick had the potential. So you can't say they don't recognize talent especially in the 5 years.

Where I definitely disagree on is giving them trouble with Mario. The guy wasn't going to sign in Edmonton. He said it. He's an American, he wanted to play in an American city. The guy wasn't coming here so what do you expect them to do.

When it comes to Nurse, other than McDavid and Leon, there should be no player on the Oilers that is untouchable. If a great trade comes to you that helps make you better, you trade him. But in my opinion, there are not a lot of trade scenarios where I see you winning a Nurse trade. Given his skill set and the type of player he is i.e mean, nasty, physical guy that can really skate, play in all situations, bring some offense, play big minutes and defend, that is a guy that every team would love to have but I don't think he scores enough points to give you the higher end player you should get back for him. You aren't getting a line driving, all around forward that is a big time scorer. You are going to get a good, complimentary player who puts up around 20 goals and 50 pts, probably doesn't play in all situations and probably is invisible on a lot of nights. a.k.a, another Eberle type. The Oilers could use a second line player for sure. But while you get that complimentary player, you are giving up a 22+ min dman that put ups 30+ pts, plays in all situations, beats the hell out of people and skates like the wind. It's not worth is in my opinion

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #747111 is a reply to message #747110 ]
Tue, 19 November 2019 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 08:48

Adam wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 08:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 13:16

Goose wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 12:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 10:02



I don't see how any team wins a trade where you are getting rid of a 24 yr old, excellent skating, tough, physical, big minute player, can play on both special teams, 30-40 pts dman.

You'd have to get one hell of a forward back to have a chance at winning that trade because as soon as you trade Nurse, you are looking for Nurse. If he was right handed, his name would never get mentioned.

I am curious to know who you think would be a forward worth trading Nurse for pretending that anyone is available? For me, it would have to be a young, signed for a value contract, proven, really good, top 6 forward. Going out and trading for a Nylander or an Ehlers, guys who on paper are good and can be good when they want too but are inconsistent doesn't do it for me. I don't see a Chia out there in a GM's spot who's stupid enough to trade a Hall type player for Nurse. That is the type of trade you would have to get to make a Nurse trade worth it in my opinion.


Ha, I would kill for the inconsistency of guys with multiple 20 goal/60 point seasons before their 25th birthday. That's basically the definition of top line scoring in the NHL. The 6th best forward on the Oilers is currently on pace for 20 points.

To put another way, the Oilers need more scoring, I don't think that's really in dispute. So if they don't trade a defenceman for one, how are they going to acquire someone? I think the Oilers best option is to trade a defenceman for scoring as they currently have more depth in their system at defence, with 3 or 4 guys that could end up being top-4 defencemen in the next few years. How many potential top 6 forwards do they currently have? Benson is the only guy that you can say is really trending that way right now. Yamamoto might have a chance, but I don't think he's done enough to this point to suggest he'll even be a consistent 50 point NHLer. Is there anyone other than Nurse that they could trade to get a guy like Nylander? Klefbom, sure, but keep in mind I suspect that Nurse is probably going to ask for and likely get $2+M more than Klefbom is currently making (and Klefbom is signed for 3 more years after this, the Oilers really can't afford to move that contract, there's too much value there).






I guess we have way different opinions on the Oilers. I have watched for years and years how the Oilers would draft guys, go through the growing pains of these guys developing and right when they were finally seeing the fruit of all the time and money they invested in a guy, dump them. Winning teams seem to have a bunch of guys on their team in their primes in key positions. The Oilers have the opportunity to have 2 guys, Klef and Nurse who are in their primes be the anchors of their top 2 pairings. Then you offset them with young guys on the right. I think it would be a mistake of epic proportions to trade Nurse. Think Petry. Petry was a decent dman that the Oilers spent years developing but had a few warts and they dumped him. As a Hab, he continued to get better and better. He's exactly what the Oilers have lacked on their defense from the day they traded him.

You ask how you get other forwards without trading Nurse. Look no further than what the Avs did with Barrie. They played him and squeezed all the juices out of him then dumped him to the Leafs for exactly what they needed in Kadri who's a second line center. Barrie has been brutal for the Leafs. If you want to go get Nylander, then you wait until this offseason and you trade for a Nylander or another forward because the Leafs only have 1 Dman signed and need to free up money because they overpaid for Tavarese, Matthews and Marner. So you give up a dirt cheap, NHL ready Jones and a decent pick and you get that forward.

So not only have you upgraded your forwards but you haven't stripped away one of the few Dmen you have who's just entering his prime years.


The big mistake the Oilers made with Petry wasn't just trading him. Everyone on your team (well, almost everyone if you have McDavid on your side) should always be available if the right deal is there. Anyone suggesting that Nurse should be traded for a 5th round pick and a tentative 2nd/3rd round pick should be fired immediately.

That said, there are only so many defence slots so if it looks like you've got more left-shot defence than you can play, eventually something has to give.

The Oilers have a front row seat on the development of all these players, and hopefully they're examining them from an objective point of view. If they have to trade someone, then they need to look at what the ceiling of the player most likely is, as well as what can they get back via trade for that player. If they believe Jones can be close to what Nurse is in the near term, then you have to consider that he's the cheaper option and Nurse can get you a real return, whereas a prospect will get you, at best, another good prospect or pick usually.

Now, the problem is that the Oilers haven't been very good at assessing talent - Gustafsson and Marino are showing that the organization doesn't necessarily see it even when right in front of them and even Martin Marincin is a case study in organizational mistakes - Eric Gryba was older, more expensive and less effective and is now gone, while Marincin continues to be a borderline NHLer for the team we traded him to. Because of that, I have little faith in the Oilers ability to assess the ceilings properly and make the right move, but moves are coming. The defence is jam-packed with options and prospects and they can't all have roster spots on the Edmonton Oilers. Meanwhile, we still have two lines filled with minor leaguers on our NHL roster - so at some point that has to be addressed too.

I disagree with you a bit on being able to assess talent. You are 100% correct, they screwed up on Gustafsson, they should have signed him. But the organization recognized that he had potential and drafted he. He was a 4th rounder. They recognized Bear and Jones were talents that were drafted later. They recognized that Marion who was a 6th round pick had the potential. So you can't say they don't recognize talent especially in the 5 years.

Where I definitely disagree on is giving them trouble with Mario. The guy wasn't going to sign in Edmonton. He said it. He's an American, he wanted to play in an American city. The guy wasn't coming here so what do you expect them to do.

When it comes to Nurse, other than McDavid and Leon, there should be no player on the Oilers that is untouchable. If a great trade comes to you that helps make you better, you trade him. But in my opinion, there are not a lot of trade scenarios where I see you winning a Nurse trade. Given his skill set and the type of player he is i.e mean, nasty, physical guy that can really skate, play in all situations, bring some offense, play big minutes and defend, that is a guy that every team would love to have but I don't think he scores enough points to give you the higher end player you should get back for him. You aren't getting a line driving, all around forward that is a big time scorer. You are going to get a good, complimentary player who puts up around 20 goals and 50 pts, probably doesn't play in all situations and probably is invisible on a lot of nights. a.k.a, another Eberle type. The Oilers could use a second line player for sure. But while you get that complimentary player, you are giving up a 22+ min dman that put ups 30+ pts, plays in all situations, beats the hell out of people and skates like the wind. It's not worth is in my opinion

Nurse for Johnny Hockey. 1 for 1

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #747114 is a reply to message #747111 ]
Tue, 19 November 2019 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 09:15

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 08:48

Adam wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 08:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 13:16

Goose wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 12:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 10:02



I don't see how any team wins a trade where you are getting rid of a 24 yr old, excellent skating, tough, physical, big minute player, can play on both special teams, 30-40 pts dman.

You'd have to get one hell of a forward back to have a chance at winning that trade because as soon as you trade Nurse, you are looking for Nurse. If he was right handed, his name would never get mentioned.

I am curious to know who you think would be a forward worth trading Nurse for pretending that anyone is available? For me, it would have to be a young, signed for a value contract, proven, really good, top 6 forward. Going out and trading for a Nylander or an Ehlers, guys who on paper are good and can be good when they want too but are inconsistent doesn't do it for me. I don't see a Chia out there in a GM's spot who's stupid enough to trade a Hall type player for Nurse. That is the type of trade you would have to get to make a Nurse trade worth it in my opinion.


Ha, I would kill for the inconsistency of guys with multiple 20 goal/60 point seasons before their 25th birthday. That's basically the definition of top line scoring in the NHL. The 6th best forward on the Oilers is currently on pace for 20 points.

To put another way, the Oilers need more scoring, I don't think that's really in dispute. So if they don't trade a defenceman for one, how are they going to acquire someone? I think the Oilers best option is to trade a defenceman for scoring as they currently have more depth in their system at defence, with 3 or 4 guys that could end up being top-4 defencemen in the next few years. How many potential top 6 forwards do they currently have? Benson is the only guy that you can say is really trending that way right now. Yamamoto might have a chance, but I don't think he's done enough to this point to suggest he'll even be a consistent 50 point NHLer. Is there anyone other than Nurse that they could trade to get a guy like Nylander? Klefbom, sure, but keep in mind I suspect that Nurse is probably going to ask for and likely get $2+M more than Klefbom is currently making (and Klefbom is signed for 3 more years after this, the Oilers really can't afford to move that contract, there's too much value there).






I guess we have way different opinions on the Oilers. I have watched for years and years how the Oilers would draft guys, go through the growing pains of these guys developing and right when they were finally seeing the fruit of all the time and money they invested in a guy, dump them. Winning teams seem to have a bunch of guys on their team in their primes in key positions. The Oilers have the opportunity to have 2 guys, Klef and Nurse who are in their primes be the anchors of their top 2 pairings. Then you offset them with young guys on the right. I think it would be a mistake of epic proportions to trade Nurse. Think Petry. Petry was a decent dman that the Oilers spent years developing but had a few warts and they dumped him. As a Hab, he continued to get better and better. He's exactly what the Oilers have lacked on their defense from the day they traded him.

You ask how you get other forwards without trading Nurse. Look no further than what the Avs did with Barrie. They played him and squeezed all the juices out of him then dumped him to the Leafs for exactly what they needed in Kadri who's a second line center. Barrie has been brutal for the Leafs. If you want to go get Nylander, then you wait until this offseason and you trade for a Nylander or another forward because the Leafs only have 1 Dman signed and need to free up money because they overpaid for Tavarese, Matthews and Marner. So you give up a dirt cheap, NHL ready Jones and a decent pick and you get that forward.

So not only have you upgraded your forwards but you haven't stripped away one of the few Dmen you have who's just entering his prime years.


The big mistake the Oilers made with Petry wasn't just trading him. Everyone on your team (well, almost everyone if you have McDavid on your side) should always be available if the right deal is there. Anyone suggesting that Nurse should be traded for a 5th round pick and a tentative 2nd/3rd round pick should be fired immediately.

That said, there are only so many defence slots so if it looks like you've got more left-shot defence than you can play, eventually something has to give.

The Oilers have a front row seat on the development of all these players, and hopefully they're examining them from an objective point of view. If they have to trade someone, then they need to look at what the ceiling of the player most likely is, as well as what can they get back via trade for that player. If they believe Jones can be close to what Nurse is in the near term, then you have to consider that he's the cheaper option and Nurse can get you a real return, whereas a prospect will get you, at best, another good prospect or pick usually.

Now, the problem is that the Oilers haven't been very good at assessing talent - Gustafsson and Marino are showing that the organization doesn't necessarily see it even when right in front of them and even Martin Marincin is a case study in organizational mistakes - Eric Gryba was older, more expensive and less effective and is now gone, while Marincin continues to be a borderline NHLer for the team we traded him to. Because of that, I have little faith in the Oilers ability to assess the ceilings properly and make the right move, but moves are coming. The defence is jam-packed with options and prospects and they can't all have roster spots on the Edmonton Oilers. Meanwhile, we still have two lines filled with minor leaguers on our NHL roster - so at some point that has to be addressed too.

I disagree with you a bit on being able to assess talent. You are 100% correct, they screwed up on Gustafsson, they should have signed him. But the organization recognized that he had potential and drafted he. He was a 4th rounder. They recognized Bear and Jones were talents that were drafted later. They recognized that Marion who was a 6th round pick had the potential. So you can't say they don't recognize talent especially in the 5 years.

Where I definitely disagree on is giving them trouble with Mario. The guy wasn't going to sign in Edmonton. He said it. He's an American, he wanted to play in an American city. The guy wasn't coming here so what do you expect them to do.

When it comes to Nurse, other than McDavid and Leon, there should be no player on the Oilers that is untouchable. If a great trade comes to you that helps make you better, you trade him. But in my opinion, there are not a lot of trade scenarios where I see you winning a Nurse trade. Given his skill set and the type of player he is i.e mean, nasty, physical guy that can really skate, play in all situations, bring some offense, play big minutes and defend, that is a guy that every team would love to have but I don't think he scores enough points to give you the higher end player you should get back for him. You aren't getting a line driving, all around forward that is a big time scorer. You are going to get a good, complimentary player who puts up around 20 goals and 50 pts, probably doesn't play in all situations and probably is invisible on a lot of nights. a.k.a, another Eberle type. The Oilers could use a second line player for sure. But while you get that complimentary player, you are giving up a 22+ min dman that put ups 30+ pts, plays in all situations, beats the hell out of people and skates like the wind. It's not worth is in my opinion

Nurse for Johnny Hockey. 1 for 1

I just look at what Colorado gave up to get Kadri. I think Kadri is a real good player who does a lot of things to help you win and is a solid second line player. The Avs traded a 59 pt dman to get him. The Avs had the ability to do that but that is what it cost to get him. Nurse does a few other things a lot better than Barrie but other than Chia, teams don't pay for a premium for defense, they pay for offense.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #747116 is a reply to message #747110 ]
Tue, 19 November 2019 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 08:48


I disagree with you a bit on being able to assess talent. You are 100% correct, they screwed up on Gustafsson, they should have signed him. But the organization recognized that he had potential and drafted he. He was a 4th rounder. They recognized Bear and Jones were talents that were drafted later. They recognized that Marion who was a 6th round pick had the potential. So you can't say they don't recognize talent especially in the 5 years.

Where I definitely disagree on is giving them trouble with Mario. The guy wasn't going to sign in Edmonton. He said it. He's an American, he wanted to play in an American city. The guy wasn't coming here so what do you expect them to do.

When it comes to Nurse, other than McDavid and Leon, there should be no player on the Oilers that is untouchable. If a great trade comes to you that helps make you better, you trade him. But in my opinion, there are not a lot of trade scenarios where I see you winning a Nurse trade. Given his skill set and the type of player he is i.e mean, nasty, physical guy that can really skate, play in all situations, bring some offense, play big minutes and defend, that is a guy that every team would love to have but I don't think he scores enough points to give you the higher end player you should get back for him. You aren't getting a line driving, all around forward that is a big time scorer. You are going to get a good, complimentary player who puts up around 20 goals and 50 pts, probably doesn't play in all situations and probably is invisible on a lot of nights. a.k.a, another Eberle type. The Oilers could use a second line player for sure. But while you get that complimentary player, you are giving up a 22+ min dman that put ups 30+ pts, plays in all situations, beats the hell out of people and skates like the wind. It's not worth is in my opinion


The team didn't offer Gustafsson a contract. He signed as a free agent and has 96 points in 174 NHL games since. As a comparison point, Nurse has 97 points in 301 NHL games. That's a massive miss - it was a great fourth round pick, but in the years that followed, the Oilers didn't realize what they had in hand.

Marino was traded this summer and immediately stepped directly in to the NHL where he has 5 points in 18 NHL games. That means he's valuable and the Penguins did well to acquire him. The Oilers had limited space for additional defencemen, but they only got a 6th round pick for him - which suggests they believed he was worse than a lot of the other players they had in the system. Again, this is a miss. The Penguins did better at assessing the value of this player than the Oilers did - despite the fact he was Oilers property.

I think there's lots of GMs in the league who over-value nastiness, so Nurse likely can get us a lot back, especially coming off a 41 point season. He's trending slightly below that but maybe you can convince a team that that's Klefbom's fault for being healthy and taking PP time away from #25. I think outside of McDavid and Draisaitl, Nurse might get the largest haul in a trade over any other Oilers player. I do think we could get a top six winger for him, and maybe an add on top of that given that defence are generally more valuable than forwards.

Depending on contract of the players getting back, you could get a lot - for example, with Hall on an expiring deal, I think you could get him straight across for Nurse with no issue - although UFA contracts scare me, so I might be wanting permission to talk extension with Hall before that trade were to happen...

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #747119 is a reply to message #747116 ]
Tue, 19 November 2019 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 10:02

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 08:48


I disagree with you a bit on being able to assess talent. You are 100% correct, they screwed up on Gustafsson, they should have signed him. But the organization recognized that he had potential and drafted he. He was a 4th rounder. They recognized Bear and Jones were talents that were drafted later. They recognized that Marion who was a 6th round pick had the potential. So you can't say they don't recognize talent especially in the 5 years.

Where I definitely disagree on is giving them trouble with Mario. The guy wasn't going to sign in Edmonton. He said it. He's an American, he wanted to play in an American city. The guy wasn't coming here so what do you expect them to do.

When it comes to Nurse, other than McDavid and Leon, there should be no player on the Oilers that is untouchable. If a great trade comes to you that helps make you better, you trade him. But in my opinion, there are not a lot of trade scenarios where I see you winning a Nurse trade. Given his skill set and the type of player he is i.e mean, nasty, physical guy that can really skate, play in all situations, bring some offense, play big minutes and defend, that is a guy that every team would love to have but I don't think he scores enough points to give you the higher end player you should get back for him. You aren't getting a line driving, all around forward that is a big time scorer. You are going to get a good, complimentary player who puts up around 20 goals and 50 pts, probably doesn't play in all situations and probably is invisible on a lot of nights. a.k.a, another Eberle type. The Oilers could use a second line player for sure. But while you get that complimentary player, you are giving up a 22+ min dman that put ups 30+ pts, plays in all situations, beats the hell out of people and skates like the wind. It's not worth is in my opinion


The team didn't offer Gustafsson a contract. He signed as a free agent and has 96 points in 174 NHL games since. As a comparison point, Nurse has 97 points in 301 NHL games. That's a massive miss - it was a great fourth round pick, but in the years that followed, the Oilers didn't realize what they had in hand.

Marino was traded this summer and immediately stepped directly in to the NHL where he has 5 points in 18 NHL games. That means he's valuable and the Penguins did well to acquire him. The Oilers had limited space for additional defencemen, but they only got a 6th round pick for him - which suggests they believed he was worse than a lot of the other players they had in the system. Again, this is a miss. The Penguins did better at assessing the value of this player than the Oilers did - despite the fact he was Oilers property.

I think there's lots of GMs in the league who over-value nastiness, so Nurse likely can get us a lot back, especially coming off a 41 point season. He's trending slightly below that but maybe you can convince a team that that's Klefbom's fault for being healthy and taking PP time away from #25. I think outside of McDavid and Draisaitl, Nurse might get the largest haul in a trade over any other Oilers player. I do think we could get a top six winger for him, and maybe an add on top of that given that defence are generally more valuable than forwards.

Depending on contract of the players getting back, you could get a lot - for example, with Hall on an expiring deal, I think you could get him straight across for Nurse with no issue - although UFA contracts scare me, so I might be wanting permission to talk extension with Hall before that trade were to happen...

If you can get a haul for Nurse, then as I said no player other than McDavid or Leon is untouchable. I just question if you can get a haul for him. To me, the Devils got a Hall (I realize I am using the incorrect word) for Larsson. The problem is, I don't see a Chia out there incharge who's stupid enough to make a trade like that. Nurse is a 24 yr old, hasn't even hit his prime as a dman, top 3, skate like the wind, pretty good all around dman who's tough as nails. And he's probably going to be that guy for the next 8 yrs minimum. Who also happens to be the roommate of one of the top 5 players in the league in Leon and one of the best buddies of your franchise player in McDavid. So if you are going to trade Nurse, you better get one hell of a lot for him because not only are you going to be trading a dman who's just coming into his own and who you haven't even gotten his best years yet, you will be dramatically upsetting your 2 best players.

So if that happens, while McDavid and Leon won't be happy to lose a friend, they better both go "While we will miss Darnell, holy crap, we got THAT MUCH for him!!" And the team better be instantly a lot better. I really have my doubts you can get that guy.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #747133 is a reply to message #747119 ]
Tue, 19 November 2019 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 11:30



I just question if you can get a haul for him. To me, the Devils got a Hall (I realize I am using the incorrect word) for Larsson.


Top 5 all time post.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #747134 is a reply to message #747133 ]
Tue, 19 November 2019 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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PlusOne wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 13:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 11:30



I just question if you can get a haul for him. To me, the Devils got a Hall (I realize I am using the incorrect word) for Larsson.


Top 5 all time post.

To make sure there is no misunderstanding, no sarcasm.

Well of course it isn't sarcasm. You didn't use the sarcasm font.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #747159 is a reply to message #747134 ]
Tue, 19 November 2019 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 14:52

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 13:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 19 November 2019 11:30



I just question if you can get a haul for him. To me, the Devils got a Hall (I realize I am using the incorrect word) for Larsson.


Top 5 all time post.

To make sure there is no misunderstanding, no sarcasm.

Well of course it isn't sarcasm. You didn't use the sarcasm font.


I suppose this is the latest sign I am getting old, didnt know that was a thing.

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746858 is a reply to message #746852 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GabbyDugan is currently offline GabbyDugan
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The one reason to move Nurse is that he is due for a huge raise going into next season. He has proven himself on that bridge deal. Nurse by no means has fully matured yet as an NHL Defenceman, but when he is on his game he can play big minute and handle the pressure. Trade deadline should be interesting no matter where the Oilers are in the race for the playoffs. I don’t know what moves Holland is prone to make near the trade deadline but the Oilers should have some excellent and interesting bargaining chips. As much as I would like to see. Darnell Nurse continue his career as an Oiler, money and the salary cap matter just as much as performance.


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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746859 is a reply to message #746858 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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GabbyDugan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 14:00

The one reason to move Nurse is that he is due for a huge raise going into next season. He has proven himself on that bridge deal. Nurse by no means has fully matured yet as an NHL Defenceman, but when he is on his game he can play big minute and handle the pressure. Trade deadline should be interesting no matter where the Oilers are in the race for the playoffs. I don’t know what moves Holland is prone to make near the trade deadline but the Oilers should have some excellent and interesting bargaining chips. As much as I would like to see. Darnell Nurse continue his career as an Oiler, money and the salary cap matter just as much as performance.


Yeah, gotta give up any Nurse trade talk. The org loves Nurse and they know he is best buds with their franchise guys. He's gonna be here as long as McDavid is.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746862 is a reply to message #746859 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 14:03

GabbyDugan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 14:00

The one reason to move Nurse is that he is due for a huge raise going into next season. He has proven himself on that bridge deal. Nurse by no means has fully matured yet as an NHL Defenceman, but when he is on his game he can play big minute and handle the pressure. Trade deadline should be interesting no matter where the Oilers are in the race for the playoffs. I don’t know what moves Holland is prone to make near the trade deadline but the Oilers should have some excellent and interesting bargaining chips. As much as I would like to see. Darnell Nurse continue his career as an Oiler, money and the salary cap matter just as much as performance.


Yeah, gotta give up any Nurse trade talk. The org loves Nurse and they know he is best buds with their franchise guys. He's gonna be here as long as McDavid is.

Exactly and as I said, why would you trade Nurse right as he's coming into his own. He's going to be 25 in February and will have a little over 300 games of NHL experience. So he's just entering his PRIME years as a dman and should be at the top of his game starting now and for the next 5-6 years.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #746861 is a reply to message #746858 ]
Thu, 14 November 2019 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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GabbyDugan wrote on Thu, 14 November 2019 14:00

The one reason to move Nurse is that he is due for a huge raise going into next season. He has proven himself on that bridge deal. Nurse by no means has fully matured yet as an NHL Defenceman, but when he is on his game he can play big minute and handle the pressure. Trade deadline should be interesting no matter where the Oilers are in the race for the playoffs. I don’t know what moves Holland is prone to make near the trade deadline but the Oilers should have some excellent and interesting bargaining chips. As much as I would like to see. Darnell Nurse continue his career as an Oiler, money and the salary cap matter just as much as performance.

Morrissey set the price for Nurse did he not? They are basically the same dman. A play both special teams but mostly second unit pp, 30 pt, big minute dman. If you look at their stats, they are almost the same. Morrissey has 10 pts and plays over 24 mins a night. Nurse has 8 pts and plays just over 23 mins a night. Morrissey is the top dog in Winnipeg now that Byf is out. Hard for Nurse to argue he's worth more.

At just over 6 mill on a long term deal for Nurse, I do that all day long.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #748581 is a reply to message #746787 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
The #Oilers have recalled defenceman Joel Persson from the @Condors, placed defenceman Matt Benning on Injured Reserve & assigned defenceman Caleb Jones as well as goaltender Stuart Skinner to Bakersfield.



Hopefully some good experience taken in by Jones in this run. He had to play some tough minutes. Definitely some struggles.

Guess Smith is ready to battle again ;)

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #748584 is a reply to message #748581 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 17:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 16:34

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
The #Oilers have recalled defenceman Joel Persson from the @Condors, placed defenceman Matt Benning on Injured Reserve & assigned defenceman Caleb Jones as well as goaltender Stuart Skinner to Bakersfield.



Hopefully some good experience taken in by Jones in this run. He had to play some tough minutes. Definitely some struggles.

Guess Smith is ready to battle again ;)


So now we have LD - Klefbom, Nurse, Russell, Manning and RD - Larsson, Bear, Benning (IR) and Persson. Makes some sense to bring up the right shot and demote Jones. He got a taste, but he didn't look ready to excel, and better to play everyone on their strong side where we can. Persson's been good on the farm too...1-4-5 in 6 games.

I wonder when we see Bouchard though. 3-10-13 in 21 games. Top scoring defenceman for the Condors. He's -6, but everyone is a minus down there and their goaltending numbers have looked atrocious.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #748590 is a reply to message #748584 ]
Tue, 03 December 2019 22:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 17:58

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 16:34

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
The #Oilers have recalled defenceman Joel Persson from the @Condors, placed defenceman Matt Benning on Injured Reserve & assigned defenceman Caleb Jones as well as goaltender Stuart Skinner to Bakersfield.



Hopefully some good experience taken in by Jones in this run. He had to play some tough minutes. Definitely some struggles.

Guess Smith is ready to battle again ;)


So now we have LD - Klefbom, Nurse, Russell, Manning and RD - Larsson, Bear, Benning (IR) and Persson. Makes some sense to bring up the right shot and demote Jones. He got a taste, but he didn't look ready to excel, and better to play everyone on their strong side where we can. Persson's been good on the farm too...1-4-5 in 6 games.

I wonder when we see Bouchard though. 3-10-13 in 21 games. Top scoring defenceman for the Condors. He's -6, but everyone is a minus down there and their goaltending numbers have looked atrocious.


Wasn't paying attention to Bak lately. Didn't know Persson did so well there right off the bat. Good stuff. Hope there is some more comfort with the small ice.

[Updated on: Tue, 03 December 2019 22:52]

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #748607 is a reply to message #748584 ]
Wed, 04 December 2019 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 17:58

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 03 December 2019 16:34

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
The #Oilers have recalled defenceman Joel Persson from the @Condors, placed defenceman Matt Benning on Injured Reserve & assigned defenceman Caleb Jones as well as goaltender Stuart Skinner to Bakersfield.



Hopefully some good experience taken in by Jones in this run. He had to play some tough minutes. Definitely some struggles.

Guess Smith is ready to battle again ;)


So now we have LD - Klefbom, Nurse, Russell, Manning and RD - Larsson, Bear, Benning (IR) and Persson. Makes some sense to bring up the right shot and demote Jones. He got a taste, but he didn't look ready to excel, and better to play everyone on their strong side where we can. Persson's been good on the farm too...1-4-5 in 6 games.

I wonder when we see Bouchard though. 3-10-13 in 21 games. Top scoring defenceman for the Condors. He's -6, but everyone is a minus down there and their goaltending numbers have looked atrocious.

I wouldn't bring up Bouchard at all this year unless you are crushed injury wise. Let him play the whole year in Baker, play all situations, all special teams and develop.

I see Persson had 5 pts in 6 games and was a +2. That's pretty good.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #748988 is a reply to message #746787 ]
Mon, 09 December 2019 11:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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And Jones returns

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oilers call D Caleb Jones up from AHL Bakersfield, while sending D Joel Persson down.

Rough run for Persson in his games back up here. May end up with a longer demotion this time around.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #748989 is a reply to message #748988 ]
Mon, 09 December 2019 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 09 December 2019 11:49

And Jones returns

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oilers call D Caleb Jones up from AHL Bakersfield, while sending D Joel Persson down.

Rough run for Persson in his games back up here. May end up with a longer demotion this time around.

I think there is a player in Persson I just think he needs time to adjust. I think to adjust to the North American can for a forward is hard, for dman it's way harder.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #748993 is a reply to message #748988 ]
Mon, 09 December 2019 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 09 December 2019 11:49

And Jones returns

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oilers call D Caleb Jones up from AHL Bakersfield, while sending D Joel Persson down.

Rough run for Persson in his games back up here. May end up with a longer demotion this time around.

Nice scoop by Spec! Looks like hatchet pieces aren't the only thing he can do!

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #748996 is a reply to message #748993 ]
Mon, 09 December 2019 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Ottawa wants to see Jones play a few more games before the trade Pageu to the Oilers.

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #749015 is a reply to message #748996 ]
Mon, 09 December 2019 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 December 2019 14:28

Ottawa wants to see Jones play a few more games before the trade Pageu to the Oilers.


Was thinking Stevey Y wanted to see Jones before he trades us Anth... this guy;
https://www.nhl.com/player/andreas-athanasiou-8476960

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Category 2 - Moderately Musty
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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #749016 is a reply to message #749015 ]
Mon, 09 December 2019 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 09 December 2019 18:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 December 2019 14:28

Ottawa wants to see Jones play a few more games before the trade Pageu to the Oilers.


Was thinking Stevey Y wanted to see Jones before he trades us Anth... this guy;
https://www.nhl.com/player/andreas-athanasiou-8476960


I agree +/- is not a useful stat, but

OMG, -33 in 29 games!

https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/omg-gif-7.gif


Only took -41 to win the green jacket last year (Risto).

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 Re: Oilers recall Jones [message #749017 is a reply to message #749016 ]
Mon, 09 December 2019 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 09 December 2019 19:13

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 09 December 2019 18:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 December 2019 14:28

Ottawa wants to see Jones play a few more games before the trade Pageu to the Oilers.


Was thinking Stevey Y wanted to see Jones before he trades us Anth... this guy;
https://www.nhl.com/player/andreas-athanasiou-8476960


I agree +/- is not a useful stat, but

OMG, -33 in 29 games!

https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/omg-gif-7.gif


Only took -41 to win the green jacket last year (Risto).

It’s a flawed stat when it doesn’t support my point of view.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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