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 Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837520]
Tue, 13 August 2024 07:50 Go to next message
boulangj  is currently offline boulangj
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https://www.nhl.com/blues/news/blues-tender-offer-sheet-to-e dmonton-s-broberg-holloway





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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837521 is a reply to message #837520 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hibernia  is currently offline Hibernia
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boulangj wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 11:20

https://www.nhl.com/blues/news/blues-tender-offer-sheet-to-e dmonton-s-broberg-holloway





Let's see if Bowman can get the Oilers out of this predicament. That's a lot of money for Broberg though. Ouch.



What happened to all of my messages? lol (I guess it's been awhile) Twitter: @AitchOil

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837522 is a reply to message #837521 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 08:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Hibernia wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:01

boulangj wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 11:20

https://www.nhl.com/blues/news/blues-tender-offer-sheet-to-e dmonton-s-broberg-holloway





Let's see if Bowman can get the Oilers out of this predicament. That's a lot of money for Broberg though. Ouch.


Given how small the compensation is (2nd for Broberg, 3rd for Holloway), it's shocking these don't happen more. So little risk for St. Louis to do it with significant possible gain.

For all the good things they did this summer, they left themselves quite vulnerable here. These do seem like maybe more important tasks than re-signing Corey Perry for one more year...now they've become critical.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837582 is a reply to message #837522 ]
Thu, 15 August 2024 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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My solution is simple. go back in time and select the highest ranked player in each draft rather than going with your gut.

Guhle and Zegras instead of Holloway and Broberg would look pretty good right now. And that's not even the only option.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837583 is a reply to message #837582 ]
Thu, 15 August 2024 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 10:55

My solution is simple. go back in time and select the highest ranked player in each draft rather than going with your gut.

Guhle and Zegras instead of Holloway and Broberg would look pretty good right now. And that's not even the only option.


Could have traded Zegras at our leisure for a really solid RHD many times since that draft.

Holland and Wright's draft record here really needs to be studied. That was supposed to be the think Holland was good at, drafting and developing. We probably ended up with the worst 5 years of drafting in the org's history. Not like the 1st's were gone either, he picked in the first round 4 times. $25M, lol.

[Updated on: Thu, 15 August 2024 11:02]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837584 is a reply to message #837583 ]
Thu, 15 August 2024 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 10:59

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 10:55

My solution is simple. go back in time and select the highest ranked player in each draft rather than going with your gut.

Guhle and Zegras instead of Holloway and Broberg would look pretty good right now. And that's not even the only option.


Could have traded Zegras at our leisure for a really solid RHD many times since that draft.

Holland and Wright's draft record here really needs to be studied. That was supposed to be the think Holland was good at, drafting and developing. We probably ended up with the worst 5 years of drafting in the org's history. Not like the 1st's were gone either, he picked in the first round 4 times. $25M, lol.


Worst in history? I don't know - late Barry Fraser wasn't great too...that one year with no hits at all...yikes.

But yeah, the cupboards are lean, despite Holland saying that we couldn't afford to trade a bunch of these picks at deadlines...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837585 is a reply to message #837584 ]
Thu, 15 August 2024 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 11:56

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 10:59

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 10:55

My solution is simple. go back in time and select the highest ranked player in each draft rather than going with your gut.

Guhle and Zegras instead of Holloway and Broberg would look pretty good right now. And that's not even the only option.


Could have traded Zegras at our leisure for a really solid RHD many times since that draft.

Holland and Wright's draft record here really needs to be studied. That was supposed to be the think Holland was good at, drafting and developing. We probably ended up with the worst 5 years of drafting in the org's history. Not like the 1st's were gone either, he picked in the first round 4 times. $25M, lol.


Worst in history? I don't know - late Barry Fraser wasn't great too...that one year with no hits at all...yikes.

But yeah, the cupboards are lean, despite Holland saying that we couldn't afford to trade a bunch of these picks at deadlines...


It's still early, but I'm not liking the odds of 2019-2022. I forgot about 1990, lol. Maybe there is some competition around that year. I mean, there has to be bonus bad points for Fraser around that time too because of the actual Tyler Wright pick!

At least we weren't paying $5M+head scout salary for those kinds of results back then. And we know Fraser wasn't even trying hard anymore after he got comfy in his job from early success.



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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837586 is a reply to message #837585 ]
Thu, 15 August 2024 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 12:17

Adam wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 11:56

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 10:59

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 10:55

My solution is simple. go back in time and select the highest ranked player in each draft rather than going with your gut.

Guhle and Zegras instead of Holloway and Broberg would look pretty good right now. And that's not even the only option.


Could have traded Zegras at our leisure for a really solid RHD many times since that draft.

Holland and Wright's draft record here really needs to be studied. That was supposed to be the think Holland was good at, drafting and developing. We probably ended up with the worst 5 years of drafting in the org's history. Not like the 1st's were gone either, he picked in the first round 4 times. $25M, lol.


Worst in history? I don't know - late Barry Fraser wasn't great too...that one year with no hits at all...yikes.

But yeah, the cupboards are lean, despite Holland saying that we couldn't afford to trade a bunch of these picks at deadlines...


It's still early, but I'm not liking the odds of 2019-2022. I forgot about 1990, lol. Maybe there is some competition around that year. I mean, there has to be bonus bad points for Fraser around that time too because of the actual Tyler Wright pick!

At least we weren't paying $5M+head scout salary for those kinds of results back then. And we know Fraser wasn't even trying hard anymore after he got comfy in his job from early success.


There's a few contenders there for worst drafting 5 years:

1986-90 - first rounders were Issel, Soberlak, Leroux, Soules, Allison. Only 500+ games guys were Shaun Van Allen (5th rd), Shjon Podein (8th rd), Josef Beranek (4th rd). Geoff Smith was close (462 GP) as a 3rd round. Anatoli Semenov only played 362 games, but he was awesome so points for that.

1996-2000 - first rounders: Devereaux, Descoteaux, Riesen, Henrich, Rita, Mikhnov. 500+ club - Devereaux (627 gp), Poti (824, 3rd rd), Chimera (1107, 5th rd), Horcoff (1008, 4th), Comrie (589, 3rd), Lombardi (536, 7th). Pisani was close also with 462 games.

To compare, 2019-23 - 1st rd - Broberg, Holloway, Bourgault, Schaefer (all could be gone this time next week!). Obviously no one at 500 games, but shockingly few games though down the list. 89 for Holloway, 81 for Broberg. Lavoie has 7 games, Matej Blumel has six (all with Dallas in 2022-23). And that's it! That's the whole list!!!

If we don't match, I think Lavoie will be the only one still with the organization from the first two drafts. For all that talk of refilling the pipe and not squandering draft picks on rentals, the team seems not to have had an issue squandering picks by just not getting the right guys, or not developing them. Worth noting, Blumel's numbers for the Stars AHL team look decent. He could yet be a player. 62 points in 72 AHL games last year and led that team in goals with 31.



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837523 is a reply to message #837520 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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This is compensation per Gregor.

They offered Broberg two years at $4,580,917 AAV. Compensation is a 2nd round pick.

And offered Holloway two years at $2,290,457 AAV. Compensation is a 3rd round pick.

You probably let Broberg walk. Despite the top 4 role he played at the end of the run, he was getting killed in chances with Nurse as Kr55 pointed out.



Clean house or bust

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837524 is a reply to message #837523 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 08:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:06

This is compensation per Gregor.

They offered Broberg two years at $4,580,917 AAV. Compensation is a 2nd round pick.

And offered Holloway two years at $2,290,457 AAV. Compensation is a 3rd round pick.

You probably let Broberg walk. Despite the top 4 role he played at the end of the run, he was getting killed in chances with Nurse as Kr55 pointed out.


I don't know that the Oilers can let Broberg go for so little. He's big, smooth-skating, quick and better than most of what the Oilers have on defence. You can't replace him for the cost of a 3rd round pick. Everyone else they have down the roster on defence is old, slow and declining.

I think if you have to make a hard choice, it's probably Holloway, although it creates a similar issue for the team. Really, the best course here is to match, trade Ceci, LTIR Kane.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837526 is a reply to message #837524 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 08:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster  is currently offline HamBlaster
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Wowwwww... the Oilers are in a pickle here, and they wasted so much time with these two getting to this point. That is huge money for Broberg, for someone that has spent such little time in the NHL so far. I feel like it's bordering on fair value for Holloway.

Well... the Oilers have some decisions to make. I don't think you can let either of these two go, as that would represent a huge chunk of the developmental growth of the organization.

I guess we get to see what Bowman is made of here. Big moment for him, already.



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837525 is a reply to message #837523 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 08:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:06

This is compensation per Gregor.

They offered Broberg two years at $4,580,917 AAV. Compensation is a 2nd round pick.

And offered Holloway two years at $2,290,457 AAV. Compensation is a 3rd round pick.

You probably let Broberg walk. Despite the top 4 role he played at the end of the run, he was getting killed in chances with Nurse as Kr55 pointed out.


Nasty Blues lol. I can't see paying Broberg that much. What a sad way that would be to end our constant holding on to him but at least we would get a 2nd, which is probably what he was worth until a lucky handful of games playing with Nurse. Would rather see that amount of money used to find a proper Nurse babysitter, if you can actually pull a trade off.

Holloway one is harder call. Don't think his ceiling it that high. Loaded at forward this year. That's also money I'd much rather see going to fixing the D.

That players had to agree to these deals. They can both go enjoy the Blues IMO.

[Updated on: Tue, 13 August 2024 08:21]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837527 is a reply to message #837525 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:18

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:06

This is compensation per Gregor.

They offered Broberg two years at $4,580,917 AAV. Compensation is a 2nd round pick.

And offered Holloway two years at $2,290,457 AAV. Compensation is a 3rd round pick.

You probably let Broberg walk. Despite the top 4 role he played at the end of the run, he was getting killed in chances with Nurse as Kr55 pointed out.


Nasty Blues lol. I can't see paying Broberg that much. What a sad way that would be to end our constant holding on to him but at least we would get a 2nd, which is probably what he was worth until a lucky handful of games playing with Nurse. Would rather see that amount of money used to find a proper Nurse babysitter, if you can actually pull a trade off.

Holloway one is harder call. Don't think his ceiling it that high. Loaded at forward this year. That's also money I'd much rather see going to fixing the D.

That players had to agree to these deals. They can both go enjoy the Blues IMO.


Can’t really afford to let Broberg walk. Ugh.

Not the news I wanted to hear this morning.



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837528 is a reply to message #837527 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leia  is currently offline Leia
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Darn them Blues, a dollar more and the compensation on both players would be higher, they certainly have played dirty.

We need some financial gymnastics the likes of which we are not used to here in Edmonton to get these two to sign. Having allowed Vinny D go, Broberg has to be kept some how or other. Holloway would be great to keep, but I think we can replace him easier than Broberg.



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to the place where I belong
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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837532 is a reply to message #837527 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:33

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:18

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:06

This is compensation per Gregor.

They offered Broberg two years at $4,580,917 AAV. Compensation is a 2nd round pick.

And offered Holloway two years at $2,290,457 AAV. Compensation is a 3rd round pick.

You probably let Broberg walk. Despite the top 4 role he played at the end of the run, he was getting killed in chances with Nurse as Kr55 pointed out.


Nasty Blues lol. I can't see paying Broberg that much. What a sad way that would be to end our constant holding on to him but at least we would get a 2nd, which is probably what he was worth until a lucky handful of games playing with Nurse. Would rather see that amount of money used to find a proper Nurse babysitter, if you can actually pull a trade off.

Holloway one is harder call. Don't think his ceiling it that high. Loaded at forward this year. That's also money I'd much rather see going to fixing the D.

That players had to agree to these deals. They can both go enjoy the Blues IMO.


Can’t really afford to let Broberg walk. Ugh.

Not the news I wanted to hear this morning.



I think both of these players are the classic Oilers 1st round pick case. Physical attributes, but without the brains to ever properly use them. Personally not at all sold on either of these players having a very high ceiling. Blues got enamoured by a handful of playoff games with a big dose of luck, as did many fans. So be it.

This is when I have to hope we finally have a GM able to fix the D. His hand is being forced. Even without this offer sheet, Broberg may have held out and demanded a trade. If we go all in on Broberg at this cap hit, it might be a sign that we are going to the playoffs with a weak bottom 4 yet again, and Knob has to waste his energy and stress all season and all playoffs trying to figure out how to mitigate the damage of our 2nd pair. Really need to do better.

[Updated on: Tue, 13 August 2024 09:16]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837534 is a reply to message #837532 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:13

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:33

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:18

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:06

This is compensation per Gregor.

They offered Broberg two years at $4,580,917 AAV. Compensation is a 2nd round pick.

And offered Holloway two years at $2,290,457 AAV. Compensation is a 3rd round pick.

You probably let Broberg walk. Despite the top 4 role he played at the end of the run, he was getting killed in chances with Nurse as Kr55 pointed out.


Nasty Blues lol. I can't see paying Broberg that much. What a sad way that would be to end our constant holding on to him but at least we would get a 2nd, which is probably what he was worth until a lucky handful of games playing with Nurse. Would rather see that amount of money used to find a proper Nurse babysitter, if you can actually pull a trade off.

Holloway one is harder call. Don't think his ceiling it that high. Loaded at forward this year. That's also money I'd much rather see going to fixing the D.

That players had to agree to these deals. They can both go enjoy the Blues IMO.


Can’t really afford to let Broberg walk. Ugh.

Not the news I wanted to hear this morning.



I think both of these players are the classic Oilers 1st round pick case. Physical attributes, but without the brains to ever properly use them. Personally not at all sold on either of these players having a very high ceiling. Blues got enamoured by a handful of playoff games with a big dose of luck, as did many fans. So be it.

This is when I have to hope we finally have a GM able to fix the D. His hand is being forced. Even without this offer sheet, Broberg may have held out and demanded a trade. If we go all in on Broberg at this cap hit, it might be a sign that we are going to the playoffs with a weak bottom 4 yet again, and Knob has to waste his energy and stress all season and all playoffs trying to figure out how to mitigate the damage of our 2nd pair. Really need to do better.


Is there anything stopping the Oilers from trading Broberg and Holloway to another team for different assets during the week they have to match the offer sheets?



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837530 is a reply to message #837523 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 08:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:06

This is compensation per Gregor.

They offered Broberg two years at $4,580,917 AAV. Compensation is a 2nd round pick.

And offered Holloway two years at $2,290,457 AAV. Compensation is a 3rd round pick.

You probably let Broberg walk. Despite the top 4 role he played at the end of the run, he was getting killed in chances with Nurse as Kr55 pointed out.

Everyone gets killed with Nurse. That contract of far and away the worst in the league and it's just crippling in so many ways.

I think they would regret letting broberg go for a long time. If there is no way to keep both you find a way to keep the dman.



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837529 is a reply to message #837520 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Ceci needs to be moved yesterday. Likely the end of Kulak. With Kane heading to LTIR they do not have many options.

I’m pretty confident we can only keep one of the two and the only assets we can really move to facilitate the trade are dmen it pretty much means keeping Broberg.

They say players don’t hold grudges for things like this, but with all the chatter about Leon and Connor taking small haircuts in their upcoming deals, this is a tough pill to swallow. I get where Holloway and Broberg are coming from though. Years of being held back when they saw others drafted with them given opportunities to succeed.



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837533 is a reply to message #837529 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:42

Ceci needs to be moved yesterday. Likely the end of Kulak. With Kane heading to LTIR they do not have many options.

I’m pretty confident we can only keep one of the two and the only assets we can really move to facilitate the trade are dmen it pretty much means keeping Broberg.

They say players don’t hold grudges for things like this, but with all the chatter about Leon and Connor taking small haircuts in their upcoming deals, this is a tough pill to swallow. I get where Holloway and Broberg are coming from though. Years of being held back when they saw others drafted with them given opportunities to succeed.

Did Halloway get held back? I don't really love that he signed this deal for likely not all the much more than he would have got in Edmonton.
I kind of agree with kr55. Have fun in st Louis.
Anyone know the rules on an a match/trade?



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837536 is a reply to message #837533 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Jay wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:19

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:42

Ceci needs to be moved yesterday. Likely the end of Kulak. With Kane heading to LTIR they do not have many options.

I’m pretty confident we can only keep one of the two and the only assets we can really move to facilitate the trade are dmen it pretty much means keeping Broberg.

They say players don’t hold grudges for things like this, but with all the chatter about Leon and Connor taking small haircuts in their upcoming deals, this is a tough pill to swallow. I get where Holloway and Broberg are coming from though. Years of being held back when they saw others drafted with them given opportunities to succeed.

Did Halloway get held back? I don't really love that he signed this deal for likely not all the much more than he would have got in Edmonton.
I kind of agree with kr55. Have fun in st Louis.
Anyone know the rules on an a match/trade?


Gotta keep them for 1 year after the date of matching. So couldn't trade either until mid-August 2025.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837538 is a reply to message #837536 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Jake Neighbours is RFA next summer...


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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837539 is a reply to message #837538 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:32

Jake Neighbours is RFA next summer...


Do it!!! :)

Although, Bouch and Drai extensions coming up.

Do it anyways though :)



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837542 is a reply to message #837538 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jakey  is currently offline Jakey
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Adam wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:32

Jake Neighbours is RFA next summer...


was looking at that. Would be fun to try and screw them over with an offer to him next summer. Need to own our own picks though. that might be tough if we r trying to add at the deadline for a playoff run.

I hope so, would be great to watch their fans scream out loud!



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837557 is a reply to message #837536 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigEfromGP  is currently offline bigEfromGP
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:23

Jay wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:19

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:42

Ceci needs to be moved yesterday. Likely the end of Kulak. With Kane heading to LTIR they do not have many options.

I’m pretty confident we can only keep one of the two and the only assets we can really move to facilitate the trade are dmen it pretty much means keeping Broberg.

They say players don’t hold grudges for things like this, but with all the chatter about Leon and Connor taking small haircuts in their upcoming deals, this is a tough pill to swallow. I get where Holloway and Broberg are coming from though. Years of being held back when they saw others drafted with them given opportunities to succeed.

Did Halloway get held back? I don't really love that he signed this deal for likely not all the much more than he would have got in Edmonton.
I kind of agree with kr55. Have fun in st Louis.
Anyone know the rules on an a match/trade?


Gotta keep them for 1 year after the date of matching. So couldn't trade either until mid-August 2025.


I should look it up, but I thought that it was the team that offers the offers sheet that cannot trade for 1 year, but if the current team owns him and matches, there is no limitation on when he can be traded.



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837559 is a reply to message #837557 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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bigEfromGP wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 15:04

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:23

Jay wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:19

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:42

Ceci needs to be moved yesterday. Likely the end of Kulak. With Kane heading to LTIR they do not have many options.

I’m pretty confident we can only keep one of the two and the only assets we can really move to facilitate the trade are dmen it pretty much means keeping Broberg.

They say players don’t hold grudges for things like this, but with all the chatter about Leon and Connor taking small haircuts in their upcoming deals, this is a tough pill to swallow. I get where Holloway and Broberg are coming from though. Years of being held back when they saw others drafted with them given opportunities to succeed.

Did Halloway get held back? I don't really love that he signed this deal for likely not all the much more than he would have got in Edmonton.
I kind of agree with kr55. Have fun in st Louis.
Anyone know the rules on an a match/trade?


Gotta keep them for 1 year after the date of matching. So couldn't trade either until mid-August 2025.


I should look it up, but I thought that it was the team that offers the offers sheet that cannot trade for 1 year, but if the current team owns him and matches, there is no limitation on when he can be traded.


I had a hard time finding the rules. Maybe it's changed since this article and some others I saw

https://colliganhockey.com/nhl-rfa-offer-sheet-rules-2019/

Also saw Blob

Bob Stauffer @Bob_Stauffer

Regarding the St. Louis offer sheets on Philip Broberg and Dylan Holloway...
#1. This is business, Blues are deploying a mechanism within the CBA.
#2. The @EdmontonOilers have a week to match.
#3. If the Oilers match on a player...he can't be traded for a year.
Lots in play here!



Is it possible there was a loophole for players that are in their last RFA year? And team could force a fat 1 year deal, and make the player untradable until they became unrestricted? Maybe that is a case where the 1 year no trade rule would not apply.

[Updated on: Tue, 13 August 2024 15:18]


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- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837537 is a reply to message #837533 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Jay wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:19

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:42

Ceci needs to be moved yesterday. Likely the end of Kulak. With Kane heading to LTIR they do not have many options.

I’m pretty confident we can only keep one of the two and the only assets we can really move to facilitate the trade are dmen it pretty much means keeping Broberg.

They say players don’t hold grudges for things like this, but with all the chatter about Leon and Connor taking small haircuts in their upcoming deals, this is a tough pill to swallow. I get where Holloway and Broberg are coming from though. Years of being held back when they saw others drafted with them given opportunities to succeed.

Did Halloway get held back? I don't really love that he signed this deal for likely not all the much more than he would have got in Edmonton.
I kind of agree with kr55. Have fun in st Louis.
Anyone know the rules on an a match/trade?


Holloway spent months last year in Bakersfield...

On rules, I believe that we cannot trade him during this period, and if we match, he can't be dealt for a longer period (one year maybe?) I think the NHL added that rule to try to make offer sheets more palatable, because otherwise teams would match out of spite, even if they just got the same thing from someone else from a trade.

I am struggling to find that rule though.



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837531 is a reply to message #837520 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 08:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Matthew Savoie's brain and heart are probably racing right now. That asset has become much more important now.


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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837535 is a reply to message #837531 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:51

Matthew Savoie's brain and heart are probably racing right now. That asset has become much more important now.


The Finnish kid could be another good option, and Raphael Lavoie looked okay last year when he was up too.

I think we have more coverage at forward, so it would be less of a loss. Broberg is more complicated because even with him here we have holes on defence. If we lose him for a 2nd round pick, then there's just not a lot left.

The next week will be an interesting one...



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837543 is a reply to message #837535 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:21

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 08:51

Matthew Savoie's brain and heart are probably racing right now. That asset has become much more important now.


The Finnish kid could be another good option, and Raphael Lavoie looked okay last year when he was up too.

I think we have more coverage at forward, so it would be less of a loss. Broberg is more complicated because even with him here we have holes on defence. If we lose him for a 2nd round pick, then there's just not a lot left.

The next week will be an interesting one...



Stauffer has some talking points for the week. At least there will be lots of radio fodder.



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837540 is a reply to message #837531 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jakey  is currently offline Jakey
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my 2 cents......

Broberg - if they truly believe he is a top 4 dman, then I would suspect they match his offer. These are very hard players to find and they may have to on him. a top 4 dman at $4.5 Million/year is fair value....just paid Broberg earlier than they wanted to.

Holloway - his offer isn't crazy, but the two offers together make it quite tough on the cap. Easier to find a player like him to replace, but easier contract to work with on the cap.

Intangibles/Thoughts.....
Kane - is he available to go on LTIR all regular season? If they match both contracts then they push the issue down the road, but may be hard to move a older guy coming off a big injury & the player holds a lot of cards with a NMC until March 1/25...then a limited amount of teams to trade to after.
Ceci - the rumour was there was some sort of market for him. Probably not a strong one to begin with (a 5-6th rd pick is my guess at best) & now the market may have evaporated. Just to move his salary out may have to add something to the deal to get it done.

Outcomes
Option 1 - Move out Ceci for whatever you can get & put Kane on LTIR...then match both offers.
Option 2 - Put Kane on LTIR, match Broberg offer & let Holloway walk for a 3rd rd pick.
Option 3 - Try and move out Ceci and Kane in a trade right now & match both offers. This is the hard one, but the one I like best. You would have to put huge pressure on Kane to waive his NMC and find a team willing to take him at huge discount, but not have him play for most of this season. I look at a team like Utah trying this as they could use both & this would be how Utah uses their cap space as a massive opportunity. Their owner would be open to this big time i would guess. If this happens, i would guess they get 2 later round picks for these 2...like a 5th & 6th. That would be great asset management to get Kane & Ceci for a couple of late picks.

No matter what we will see what this Oilers management team is made of and if they can somehow deal with this and still have a team to challenge for the cup with decent depth still.



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837541 is a reply to message #837520 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Chia being VP of hockey ops with the Blues adds a little spice to all this :)

Remember when Chia left a load of cap space in case of an offer sheet, and even traded Eberle for space that he never used? Well, he's showing us how smart he was.

[Updated on: Tue, 13 August 2024 09:49]


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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837544 is a reply to message #837541 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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12 minutes ago on tsn.. Oilers winger Kane unlikely to be ready for camp.

Interesting timing lol



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837547 is a reply to message #837544 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Jay wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:50

12 minutes ago on tsn.. Oilers winger Kane unlikely to be ready for camp.

Interesting timing lol


Ryan Rishaug @TSNRyanRishaug
My sense on Kane is surgery is the most likely course of action. Process is still underway to determine exactly what needs to be done, as there were several significant issues he was dealing with. He is not likely to be ready for training camp, and it could be several months into the season before he’s available.



"several months into the season". Beautiful :) Still though, need a real D upgrade pls. Don't waste Kane's LTIR just to keep Broberg and Holloway and the rest of the current D group icon_dead



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- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837548 is a reply to message #837547 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:07

Jay wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:50

12 minutes ago on tsn.. Oilers winger Kane unlikely to be ready for camp.

Interesting timing lol


Ryan Rishaug @TSNRyanRishaug
My sense on Kane is surgery is the most likely course of action. Process is still underway to determine exactly what needs to be done, as there were several significant issues he was dealing with. He is not likely to be ready for training camp, and it could be several months into the season before he’s available.



"several months into the season". Beautiful :) Still though, need a real D upgrade pls. Don't waste Kane's LTIR just to keep Broberg and Holloway and the rest of the current D group icon_dead


Good thread from @NHL_Sid on twitter about this. With aging and flawed defence, can you afford to lose a 23-year old? There's no one else under 25 other than Bouchard. Nurse is 29 and the only one under 30.

But at the same time, Broberg is LHD ideally and we have big money tied up in Nurse and Ekholm on the left for years to come. This would be an easier choice if Broberg shot right where it's an absolute wasteland after Bouchard. That Kesselring trade sure looks stupid right now. Thanks a lot, Ken Holland.



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837550 is a reply to message #837548 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:23

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:07

Jay wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:50

12 minutes ago on tsn.. Oilers winger Kane unlikely to be ready for camp.

Interesting timing lol


Ryan Rishaug @TSNRyanRishaug
My sense on Kane is surgery is the most likely course of action. Process is still underway to determine exactly what needs to be done, as there were several significant issues he was dealing with. He is not likely to be ready for training camp, and it could be several months into the season before he’s available.



"several months into the season". Beautiful :) Still though, need a real D upgrade pls. Don't waste Kane's LTIR just to keep Broberg and Holloway and the rest of the current D group icon_dead


Good thread from @NHL_Sid on twitter about this. With aging and flawed defence, can you afford to lose a 23-year old? There's no one else under 25 other than Bouchard. Nurse is 29 and the only one under 30.

But at the same time, Broberg is LHD ideally and we have big money tied up in Nurse and Ekholm on the left for years to come. This would be an easier choice if Broberg shot right where it's an absolute wasteland after Bouchard. That Kesselring trade sure looks stupid right now. Thanks a lot, Ken Holland.


We need a trade, badly. I get the youth argument, but I personally don't think Broberg is worth anywhere near that offer sheet. A little 1.101 PDO stint in the playoffs coming in full of energy getting to play the underdog doesn't really change much for me. I never felt he processed the game well enough to achieve what Holland thought he was drafting. Him with that contract would be like a mini-Nurse IMO, and it would stop us from being able to actually fix the D. If he didn't know a lucrative offer sheet was coming, he may have asked for a trade anyways too. Us playing him out of total desperation can't have made him feel that much more loyalty to the org, plus he knows he could be set up to fail as Nurse's babysitter. At least this way he would be paid very well to struggle here if we do match :)

[Updated on: Tue, 13 August 2024 10:29]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837552 is a reply to message #837550 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:27

Adam wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:23

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:07

Jay wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:50

12 minutes ago on tsn.. Oilers winger Kane unlikely to be ready for camp.

Interesting timing lol


Ryan Rishaug @TSNRyanRishaug
My sense on Kane is surgery is the most likely course of action. Process is still underway to determine exactly what needs to be done, as there were several significant issues he was dealing with. He is not likely to be ready for training camp, and it could be several months into the season before he’s available.



"several months into the season". Beautiful :) Still though, need a real D upgrade pls. Don't waste Kane's LTIR just to keep Broberg and Holloway and the rest of the current D group icon_dead


Good thread from @NHL_Sid on twitter about this. With aging and flawed defence, can you afford to lose a 23-year old? There's no one else under 25 other than Bouchard. Nurse is 29 and the only one under 30.

But at the same time, Broberg is LHD ideally and we have big money tied up in Nurse and Ekholm on the left for years to come. This would be an easier choice if Broberg shot right where it's an absolute wasteland after Bouchard. That Kesselring trade sure looks stupid right now. Thanks a lot, Ken Holland.


We need a trade, badly. I get the youth argument, but I personally don't think Broberg is worth anywhere near that offer sheet. A little 1.101 PDO stint in the playoffs coming in full of energy getting to play the underdog doesn't really change much for me. I never felt he processed the game well enough to achieve what Holland thought he was drafting. Him with that contract would be like a mini-Nurse IMO, and it would stop us from being able to actually fix the D. If he didn't know a lucrative offer sheet was coming, he may have asked for a trade anyways too. Us playing him out of total desperation can't have made him feel that much more loyalty to the org, plus he knows he could be set up to fail as Nurse's babysitter. At least this way he would be paid very well to struggle here if we do match :)


It's truly a worst case scenario. Because the Oilers have played him so little at the NHL level, the sample size that we are making a decision based on is pretty small. He has a lot of the tools, and he's definitely shown flashes but I agree, he's not been a top-four NHL guy in very many games, and he better be if you're paying that much.

When you layer in the fact that if he's playing his proper side, then you have either a $4.5MM or $9.25MM guy playing on the third pairing, it's really problematic.

I do really wonder how the Oilers get two upgrades on the Right side in the next few months. Broberg on his off-wing is probably better than Ceci on the second pair, and so the whole gets bigger with him gone. Is there any options? The guys available in UFA are pretty much all flawed players - mostly high offence, weak defence guys (Barrie, DeAngelo, Klingberg, Addison). You need a trade, but there aren't a lot of great 2nd pair guys traded in late August historically...



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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837554 is a reply to message #837552 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:57

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:27

Adam wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:23

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:07

Jay wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:50

12 minutes ago on tsn.. Oilers winger Kane unlikely to be ready for camp.

Interesting timing lol


Ryan Rishaug @TSNRyanRishaug
My sense on Kane is surgery is the most likely course of action. Process is still underway to determine exactly what needs to be done, as there were several significant issues he was dealing with. He is not likely to be ready for training camp, and it could be several months into the season before he’s available.



"several months into the season". Beautiful :) Still though, need a real D upgrade pls. Don't waste Kane's LTIR just to keep Broberg and Holloway and the rest of the current D group icon_dead


Good thread from @NHL_Sid on twitter about this. With aging and flawed defence, can you afford to lose a 23-year old? There's no one else under 25 other than Bouchard. Nurse is 29 and the only one under 30.

But at the same time, Broberg is LHD ideally and we have big money tied up in Nurse and Ekholm on the left for years to come. This would be an easier choice if Broberg shot right where it's an absolute wasteland after Bouchard. That Kesselring trade sure looks stupid right now. Thanks a lot, Ken Holland.


We need a trade, badly. I get the youth argument, but I personally don't think Broberg is worth anywhere near that offer sheet. A little 1.101 PDO stint in the playoffs coming in full of energy getting to play the underdog doesn't really change much for me. I never felt he processed the game well enough to achieve what Holland thought he was drafting. Him with that contract would be like a mini-Nurse IMO, and it would stop us from being able to actually fix the D. If he didn't know a lucrative offer sheet was coming, he may have asked for a trade anyways too. Us playing him out of total desperation can't have made him feel that much more loyalty to the org, plus he knows he could be set up to fail as Nurse's babysitter. At least this way he would be paid very well to struggle here if we do match :)


It's truly a worst case scenario. Because the Oilers have played him so little at the NHL level, the sample size that we are making a decision based on is pretty small. He has a lot of the tools, and he's definitely shown flashes but I agree, he's not been a top-four NHL guy in very many games, and he better be if you're paying that much.

When you layer in the fact that if he's playing his proper side, then you have either a $4.5MM or $9.25MM guy playing on the third pairing, it's really problematic.

I do really wonder how the Oilers get two upgrades on the Right side in the next few months. Broberg on his off-wing is probably better than Ceci on the second pair, and so the whole gets bigger with him gone. Is there any options? The guys available in UFA are pretty much all flawed players - mostly high offence, weak defence guys (Barrie, DeAngelo, Klingberg, Addison). You need a trade, but there aren't a lot of great 2nd pair guys traded in late August historically...




I'd love if Kulak could suck it up and play RHD with Nurse. Pretty sour still if Kulak actually demanded to be put back on the left side, because the D changes basically costed us game 1 of the finals and let Florida carry momentum for 2 more games after. That pair worked though, even if they got the opposite PDO of Nurse/Broberg. Kulak/Nurse got 0.903 lol, but positive by almost every other metric with tough ice time. By the MacT visual test they complimented each other well too.

Definitely agree, this is a horrible time to trade. This whole summer is just a series of being in awkward spots. Still need to get Drai and McDavid on board for the long term too punch Likely would need to go into the season a bit to try to find an opening where a team having a rough start would be willing to deal to change things up.

Wish we signed a depth LHD instead of Josh Brown! A half decent 3rd pair LHD with Stecher or Ceci may have been OK for a short while with Ek-Bouch and Nurse-Kulak.




"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837555 is a reply to message #837554 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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1 Cup

2 years… if we can make it work for this season then bite the bullet and keep Broberg, maybe also Holloway. Start by LTIR Kane. And hope Bowman or JJ have a play or two left.

This was definitely an attempt to screw us up for this season.

Management better start battening down the hatches.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837545 is a reply to message #837520 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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As Adam pointed out, giving Corey Perry another year with bonuses looks like a mistake already. I’ll add Josh Brown to that.

The pennies make a difference. Would be 2.15 million extra space to play with for old/replacement level players.

Ceci needs to go.



Clean house or bust

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 Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837546 is a reply to message #837545 ]
Tue, 13 August 2024 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:56

As Adam pointed out, giving Corey Perry another year with bonuses looks like a mistake already. I’ll add Josh Brown to that.

The pennies make a difference. Would be 2.15 million extra space to play with for old/replacement level players.

Ceci needs to go.


How hard to we get squeezed now that everyone knows we have to dump him? Oh wait, it's impossible to squeeze another GM in this league. We'll be fine :)



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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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