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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823203 is a reply to message #823201 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:14


So based on what you posted from the rules.

Hague took off his gloves first. Now if you want to say they tied, fine but he was first by a half second.

Hague threw the first 8 punches.

Hague challenged Nurse to a fight, maybe 10-15 second earlier. This was admitted by Stone. So Hague would have had the menacing attitude. When you challenge a person to fight, that's a menacing attitude. He also did verbal instigation by asking Nurse to fight.

Conduct relating to the game. The Oilers were beating the crap out of Vegas. It was late in the game. It was 4-1, game was over. Vegas was mad. Hague wanted to fight.

So the only thing Nurse did by the definition of being an instigator was he skated to the guy.

When you put it this way the suspension seems just. The gloves coming off nearly simultaneously is irrelevant because the fight was inevitable when Nurse skated over to start the fight. The offer to fight 15 seconds over is irrelevant because the fight didn't happen then. Vegas being mad is irrelevant because there isn't a rule against being mad. Hague being a willing combatant is irrelevant because he was smart enough not to start a fight. The fight happened because Nurse skated over. Lesson learned.

Just kidding. No one learns anything.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823204 is a reply to message #823203 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:14


So based on what you posted from the rules.

Hague took off his gloves first. Now if you want to say they tied, fine but he was first by a half second.

Hague threw the first 8 punches.

Hague challenged Nurse to a fight, maybe 10-15 second earlier. This was admitted by Stone. So Hague would have had the menacing attitude. When you challenge a person to fight, that's a menacing attitude. He also did verbal instigation by asking Nurse to fight.

Conduct relating to the game. The Oilers were beating the crap out of Vegas. It was late in the game. It was 4-1, game was over. Vegas was mad. Hague wanted to fight.

So the only thing Nurse did by the definition of being an instigator was he skated to the guy.

When you put it this way the suspension seems just. The gloves coming off nearly simultaneously is irrelevant because the fight was inevitable when Nurse skated over to start the fight. The offer to fight 15 seconds over is irrelevant because the fight didn't happen then. Vegas being mad is irrelevant because there isn't a rule against being mad. Hague being a willing combatant is irrelevant because he was smart enough not to start a fight. The fight happened because Nurse skated over. Lesson learned.

Just kidding. No one learns anything.


To be faaaaair… there was no reason for Nurse to do what he did. If he was yes to fight the Hague, then he should have accepted off the draw. Kind of a goober way to handle it by him.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823205 is a reply to message #823204 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:36

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:14


So based on what you posted from the rules.

Hague took off his gloves first. Now if you want to say they tied, fine but he was first by a half second.

Hague threw the first 8 punches.

Hague challenged Nurse to a fight, maybe 10-15 second earlier. This was admitted by Stone. So Hague would have had the menacing attitude. When you challenge a person to fight, that's a menacing attitude. He also did verbal instigation by asking Nurse to fight.

Conduct relating to the game. The Oilers were beating the crap out of Vegas. It was late in the game. It was 4-1, game was over. Vegas was mad. Hague wanted to fight.

So the only thing Nurse did by the definition of being an instigator was he skated to the guy.

When you put it this way the suspension seems just. The gloves coming off nearly simultaneously is irrelevant because the fight was inevitable when Nurse skated over to start the fight. The offer to fight 15 seconds over is irrelevant because the fight didn't happen then. Vegas being mad is irrelevant because there isn't a rule against being mad. Hague being a willing combatant is irrelevant because he was smart enough not to start a fight. The fight happened because Nurse skated over. Lesson learned.

Just kidding. No one learns anything.


To be faaaaair… there was no reason for Nurse to do what he did. If he was yes to fight the Hague, then he should have accepted off the draw. Kind of a goober way to handle it by him.


He probably did it in the worst possible way for appearances, and even for himself, going the huggy route and letting Hague get a load of shots in first.

Still, if Perros didn't need an excuse to even things up, he probably would have loved Nurse finally obliging to Hague like he did.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823211 is a reply to message #823204 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently online NetBOG
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It's a rule that was put in place because Dutter sent 5 goons over the boards one night late in a game where the Lames were getting blown out. This was not that. The DOPS needs to be able to understand that. They know they are suspending Pietrangelo, so they think it's "even up" to do it to Nurse, which is the same BS reasoning the refs use in game. A two-handed slash to the wrist is way worse than a questionable instigator. Just gives Knight licence to keep the cheap shots going.


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823206 is a reply to message #823116 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Nurse

“For 40 minutes, he was out there challenging and trying to provoke a fight,” Nurse said. “For me, you play 24 minutes a game and you don’t want to take yourself out at the wrong time.

“With 30 seconds left in a 4-1 game, to do it a fair way, to have (a) fair fight where both people want to fight and are willing to engage, I think that is what took place last night.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/oilers-nurse-suspended- one-game-for-instigator-penalty-in-game-4-vs-golden-knights/

9.9 /10 no one in that scrap ever gets an instigator.. either in the regular season.. and especially in the playoffs to a team's top player.. they usually reserve those instigator calls for the 4th liners to diffuse dangerous situations.. Despite what the media types will say, that suspension was at the sole discretion of a mandatory Hockey Ops review as to whether Nurse was a true "instigator" in that altercation, according to their rules Hague was as much of an "instigator" as he was.

Cue Pietrangelo getting the maximum fine.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 14:43]


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823207 is a reply to message #823206 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:41

Nurse

“For 40 minutes, he was out there challenging and trying to provoke a fight,” Nurse said. “For me, you play 24 minutes a game and you don’t want to take yourself out at the wrong time.

“With 30 seconds left in a 4-1 game, to do it a fair way, to have (a) fair fight where both people want to fight and are willing to engage, I think that is what took place last night.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/oilers-nurse-suspended- one-game-for-instigator-penalty-in-game-4-vs-golden-knights/

9.9 /10 no one in that scrap ever gets an instigator.. in the regular season.. and especially in the playoffs to a team's top player.. they usually reserve those instigator calls for the 4th liners to diffuse dangerous situations.. Despite what the media types will say, that suspension was at the sole discretion of a mandatory Hockey Ops review as to whether Nurse was a true "instigator" in that altercation, according to their rules Hague was as much of an "instigator" as he was.

Cue Pietrangelo getting the maximum fine.

Pot stirrer PI's comment to this will be interesting I am sure.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823209 is a reply to message #823207 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:43


Pot stirrer PI's comment to this will be interesting I am sure.

It's not pot stirring. I intentionally try to be a cold and emotionless as possible when I try to figure out what someone else is going to do. I find if I let my feelings and hopes get in the way I get surprised by outcome. I really hate being surprised.

I get what Nurse is saying, but he's speaking with his emotion and has created the situation where's he both suspended and (maybe) surprised by the outcome.

I think PA might get 2.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823210 is a reply to message #823209 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:43


Pot stirrer PI's comment to this will be interesting I am sure.

It's not pot stirring. I intentionally try to be a cold and emotionless as possible when I try to figure out what someone else is going to do. I find if I let my feelings and hopes get in the way I get surprised by outcome. I really hate being surprised.

I get what Nurse is saying, but he's speaking with his emotion and has created the situation where's he both suspended and (maybe) surprised by the outcome.

I think PA might get 2.

For clarity so I am better understand your point. When Stone says Hague was challenging Nurse to a fight, how would you classify that? That's emotion too, not facts?



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823213 is a reply to message #823210 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:54

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:43


Pot stirrer PI's comment to this will be interesting I am sure.

It's not pot stirring. I intentionally try to be a cold and emotionless as possible when I try to figure out what someone else is going to do. I find if I let my feelings and hopes get in the way I get surprised by outcome. I really hate being surprised.

I get what Nurse is saying, but he's speaking with his emotion and has created the situation where's he both suspended and (maybe) surprised by the outcome.

I think PA might get 2.

For clarity so I am better understand your point. When Stone says Hague was challenging Nurse to a fight, how would you classify that? That's emotion too, not facts?

No, it's a fact, but it didn't start a fight. It's irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not Nurse should have his instigator penalty rescinded.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823215 is a reply to message #823213 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:54

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:43


Pot stirrer PI's comment to this will be interesting I am sure.

It's not pot stirring. I intentionally try to be a cold and emotionless as possible when I try to figure out what someone else is going to do. I find if I let my feelings and hopes get in the way I get surprised by outcome. I really hate being surprised.

I get what Nurse is saying, but he's speaking with his emotion and has created the situation where's he both suspended and (maybe) surprised by the outcome.

I think PA might get 2.

For clarity so I am better understand your point. When Stone says Hague was challenging Nurse to a fight, how would you classify that? That's emotion too, not facts?

No, it's a fact, but it didn't start a fight. It's irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not Nurse should have his instigator penalty rescinded.

So if a person challenges someone else to a fight, then a few seconds later the other person goes to fight him. The first person didn't start it in your world?

Obviously we have never met. But if you are out somewhere and walk up to a guy, you get in a guys face and you legit challenge him to a fight. Then he punches you shortly after, it's his fault you got into a fight, not yours? Sorry for repeating myself but I am struggling to understand your point of view because it doesn't make sense to me. If Hague doesn't ask to fight, the fight doesn't happen

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:13]


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823229 is a reply to message #823215 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:02


So if a person challenges someone else to a fight, then a few seconds later the other person goes to fight him. The first person didn't start it in your world?

Obviously we have never met. But if you are out somewhere and walk up to a guy, you get in a guys face and you legit challenge him to a fight. Then he punches you shortly after, it's his fault you got into a fight, not yours? Sorry for repeating myself but I am struggling to understand your point of view because it doesn't make sense to me. If Hague doesn't ask to fight, the fight doesn't happen

In a hockey context? Yes. But actually in a legal context I think your scenario ends the same way. You can't walk away from a challenge, then start a fight 10 seconds, and blame the other guy because you punched him. <not a lawyer, opinion for entertainment purposes only>

Last night there was a challenge, it wasn't accepted, the players parted then one player skated across the ice to challenge. I understand you don't like the Nurse suspension, but it makes sense that it wasn't rescinded. The fight doesn't happen unless Nurse skates across the ice.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823233 is a reply to message #823229 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:02


So if a person challenges someone else to a fight, then a few seconds later the other person goes to fight him. The first person didn't start it in your world?

Obviously we have never met. But if you are out somewhere and walk up to a guy, you get in a guys face and you legit challenge him to a fight. Then he punches you shortly after, it's his fault you got into a fight, not yours? Sorry for repeating myself but I am struggling to understand your point of view because it doesn't make sense to me. If Hague doesn't ask to fight, the fight doesn't happen

In a hockey context? Yes. But actually in a legal context I think your scenario ends the same way. You can't walk away from a challenge, then start a fight 10 seconds, and blame the other guy because you punched him. <not a lawyer, opinion for entertainment purposes only>

Last night there was a challenge, it wasn't accepted, the players parted then one player skated across the ice to challenge. I understand you don't like the Nurse suspension, but it makes sense that it wasn't rescinded. The fight doesn't happen unless Nurse skates across the ice.

We will never agree and I will never accept your explanation. Please don't tell me how I feel. You don't know me so you don't have the ability to speak for me. My opinion on the suspension has nothing to do with "not liking it", it has everything to do with the fact the ref made a mistake in calling the instigator penalty in the first place. Nurse doesn't skate across the ice to fight if Hague doesn't ask him to fight. Without the initial challenge, nothing happens. So to dismiss that and tell me Hague was blameless almost making it sound like he was an innocent bi-stander that got cruelly jumped, is wrong in my opinion.

The point of the instigator rule is to stop guys from jumping on the ice, grabbing someone who's just innocently standing there and beating on a guy that had no interest in fighting. That's not what happened here. The ref made the mistake in calling the instigator rule because both guys had a hand in causing a fight. That's a fact! Hague asked for the fight first. That's a fact! Nurse skated over to go fight Hague as requested. That's a fact! Hague saw him coming and dropped his gloves to fight Nurse. That's a fact! Nurse dropped his gloves as well. That's a fact. Hague threw the first 8 punches. That's a fact! Nurse finished him. That's a fact! All these things are factual evidence based on video and testimony. Both guys wanted to fight, so they fought.

So my "dislike" of the suspension is not because Nurse got it. It's because the refs made a mistake, then the league backed up that mistake and added to it. 2 wrongs don't make a right. It's OK for refs to make a mistake. When they do and you can fix it, then fix it. As soon as it is known Hague called for a fight, there is no instigator anymore.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:00]


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823235 is a reply to message #823233 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:55

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:02


So if a person challenges someone else to a fight, then a few seconds later the other person goes to fight him. The first person didn't start it in your world?

Obviously we have never met. But if you are out somewhere and walk up to a guy, you get in a guys face and you legit challenge him to a fight. Then he punches you shortly after, it's his fault you got into a fight, not yours? Sorry for repeating myself but I am struggling to understand your point of view because it doesn't make sense to me. If Hague doesn't ask to fight, the fight doesn't happen

In a hockey context? Yes. But actually in a legal context I think your scenario ends the same way. You can't walk away from a challenge, then start a fight 10 seconds, and blame the other guy because you punched him. <not a lawyer, opinion for entertainment purposes only>

Last night there was a challenge, it wasn't accepted, the players parted then one player skated across the ice to challenge. I understand you don't like the Nurse suspension, but it makes sense that it wasn't rescinded. The fight doesn't happen unless Nurse skates across the ice.

We will never agree and I will never accept your explanation. Please don't tell me how I feel. You don't know me so you don't have the ability to speak for me. My opinion on the suspension has nothing to do with "not liking it", it has everything to do with the fact the ref made a mistake in calling the instigator penalty in the first place. Nurse doesn't skate across the ice to fight if Hague doesn't ask him to fight. Without the initial challenge, nothing happens. So to dismiss that and tell me Hague was blameless almost making it sound like he was an innocent bi-stander that got cruelly jumped, is wrong in my opinion.

The point of the instigator rule is to stop guys from jumping on the ice, grabbing someone who's just innocently standing there and beating on a guy that had no interest in fighting. That's not what happened here. The ref made the mistake in calling the instigator rule because both guys had a hand in causing a fight. That's a fact! Hague asked for the fight first. That's a fact! Nurse skated over to go fight Hague as requested. That's a fact! Hague saw him coming and dropped his gloves to fight Nurse. That's a fact! Nurse dropped his gloves as well. That's a fact. Hague threw the first 8 punches. That's a fact! Nurse finished him. That's a fact! All these things are factual evidence based on video and testimony. Both guys wanted to fight, so they fought.

So my "dislike" of the suspension is not because Nurse got it. It's because the refs made a mistake, then the league backed up that mistake and added to it.

I told you I understand how you feel. Big difference.

You can say the ref made a mistake, but that doesn't really matter. You've explained what you've seen a few times now. To me, based solely on your explanation of the facts, the NHL not rescinding the penalty makes sense to. That's not me trying to explain anything, that's me forming a conclusion based on the argument you brought. Again, it's a big difference. I will point out that if I was trying to explain what's happened, and I'm not, I'd say exactly what you said.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823216 is a reply to message #823213 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:54

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:43


Pot stirrer PI's comment to this will be interesting I am sure.

It's not pot stirring. I intentionally try to be a cold and emotionless as possible when I try to figure out what someone else is going to do. I find if I let my feelings and hopes get in the way I get surprised by outcome. I really hate being surprised.

I get what Nurse is saying, but he's speaking with his emotion and has created the situation where's he both suspended and (maybe) surprised by the outcome.

I think PA might get 2.

For clarity so I am better understand your point. When Stone says Hague was challenging Nurse to a fight, how would you classify that? That's emotion too, not facts?

No, it's a fact, but it didn't start a fight. It's irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not Nurse should have his instigator penalty rescinded.


This is the NHL definition of Instigator.. both Nurse AND Hague qualify.. Hague ticks off more boxes than Nurse.. especially the 1st punch.. in fact it couldn't even be classified as a fight until Hague threw 8 punches before Nurse threw even one.. prior to that it was a "roughing" incident.. .. so both should be suspended.. or none.

Quote:

46.11 Instigator -

An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his
actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria:

- distance traveled;

- gloves off first;

- first punch thrown;

- menacing attitude or posture;

- verbal instigation or threats;

- conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident;

- obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season.




McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823218 is a reply to message #823216 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:08

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:54

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:43


Pot stirrer PI's comment to this will be interesting I am sure.

It's not pot stirring. I intentionally try to be a cold and emotionless as possible when I try to figure out what someone else is going to do. I find if I let my feelings and hopes get in the way I get surprised by outcome. I really hate being surprised.

I get what Nurse is saying, but he's speaking with his emotion and has created the situation where's he both suspended and (maybe) surprised by the outcome.

I think PA might get 2.

For clarity so I am better understand your point. When Stone says Hague was challenging Nurse to a fight, how would you classify that? That's emotion too, not facts?

No, it's a fact, but it didn't start a fight. It's irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not Nurse should have his instigator penalty rescinded.


This is the NHL definition of Instigator.. both Nurse AND Hague qualify.. Hague ticks off more boxes than Nurse.. especially the 1st punch.. in fact it couldn't even be classified as a fight until Hague threw 8 punches before Nurse threw even one.. prior to that it was a "roughing" incident.. .. so both should be suspended.. or none.

Quote:

46.11 Instigator -

An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his
actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria:

- distance traveled;

- gloves off first;

- first punch thrown;

- menacing attitude or posture;

- verbal instigation or threats;

- conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident;

- obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season.



IN my opinion, if I am out and I get into someone's face and ask him to fight, that's on me. So if I ask for a fight, I can't go back and say it wasn't my fault. If I don't say anything, the fight doesn't happen.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823220 is a reply to message #823209 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:43


Pot stirrer PI's comment to this will be interesting I am sure.

It's not pot stirring. I intentionally try to be a cold and emotionless as possible when I try to figure out what someone else is going to do. I find if I let my feelings and hopes get in the way I get surprised by outcome. I really hate being surprised.

I get what Nurse is saying, but he's speaking with his emotion and has created the situation where's he both suspended and (maybe) surprised by the outcome.

I think PA might get 2.


Think 2 as well. Giving Nurse 1 gives DoPS permission to actually punish 2 hand lumberjack chopping a star players wrist completely away from the play. I'm so happy for Parros being able to do that. Thanks Nurse.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823208 is a reply to message #823206 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:41

Nurse

“For 40 minutes, he was out there challenging and trying to provoke a fight,” Nurse said. “For me, you play 24 minutes a game and you don’t want to take yourself out at the wrong time.

“With 30 seconds left in a 4-1 game, to do it a fair way, to have (a) fair fight where both people want to fight and are willing to engage, I think that is what took place last night.”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/oilers-nurse-suspended- one-game-for-instigator-penalty-in-game-4-vs-golden-knights/

9.9 /10 no one in that scrap ever gets an instigator.. either in the regular season.. and especially in the playoffs to a team's top player.. they usually reserve those instigator calls for the 4th liners to diffuse dangerous situations.. Despite what the media types will say, that suspension was at the sole discretion of a mandatory Hockey Ops review as to whether Nurse was a true "instigator" in that altercation, according to their rules Hague was as much of an "instigator" as he was.

Cue Pietrangelo getting the maximum fine.

So for 40 mins Hague tries to instigate a fight but they give Nurse the instigator because he skated over to Hague to take the fight that Hague tried to start for 40 mins. Gotcha. NHL logic. You really can't beat it.

NHL will give Pietrangelo 1 game because they are gutless and don't have any interest in player safety. It's even to make it even for both teams even though 1 event is no where near the same as the other in severity.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 14:49]


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823214 is a reply to message #823208 ]
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RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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The Oilers should have put out this morning that Leon was going to get xrays and get checked out by a specialist for fear of a bad break. Leak to Rishaugh that they won't know the results until late today or tomorrow so he can tweet about it. Then have Leon put on a splint when walking through the airport and make sure you leak pictures to Rishaugh so he can tweet about it. As soon as Leon is on their charter, he can take off the splint and do whatever it is he does. Rishaugh doesn't fly on the private charters so how would be know. Once you land, wait until after the hearing then you can tell the press results came in when they landed and he's fine. Just a bruise.

The NHL likes to punish based on the injury, doesn't matter the act. So unfortunately, Leon didn't roll around on the ice, then get up holding his arm and run off to the room. The Oilers need to train their players to act better. Stop being tough.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823212 is a reply to message #823116 ]
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Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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.. to be clear.. I think it still was a dumb play by Nurse, a guy pulling top D minutes for his team, and vet that has an "A" on his sweater, to get into a fight with 40 secs left when your team has just secured a ton of momentum for the next game.. the risk didn't even register..

However, when the media boot-lickers, and DoPS say it was an "automatic" suspension.. it was not.. DoPS had a mandatory obligation to review the entire circumstances of the incident.. in accordance with their own rule 46.21.. so this was "their DECISION" .. it was not "out of their hands" and bound by the letter of the "rule book".

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:02]


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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823217 is a reply to message #823212 ]
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:56

.. to be clear.. I think it still was a dumb play by Nurse, a guy pulling top D minutes for his team, and vet that has an "A" on his sweater, to get into a fight with 40 secs left when your team has just secured a ton of momentum for the next game.. the risk didn't even register..

However, when the media boot-lickers, and DoPS say it was an "automatic" suspension.. it was not.. DoPS had a mandatory obligation to review the entire circumstances of the incident.. in accordance with their own rule 46.21.. so this was "their DECISION" .. it was not "out of their hands" and bound by the letter of the "rule book".



I agree, he shouldn't have taken the fight at all. If you want to fight a guy, 40 seconds left in the game when you are up 4-1 is the best time to do it but he shouldn't have done it.

That being said, I really don't like the idea that Hague is faultless in this. In my opinion, giving Nurse the instigator says to me, Hague was the innocent bi-stander doing no wrong. When you challenge a person to fight, to have accepted fault and it was clear he was ready and waiting for it.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823222 is a reply to message #823217 ]
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Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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correction - the DOPS doesn't review Nurse's instigator suspension. The NHL Director of Hockey operations does.
DOPS will review Pietrangelo. they have way to give him a $5000 fine and say, 'we had nothing to do with Nurse's decision.'



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823225 is a reply to message #823222 ]
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:21

correction - the DOPS doesn't review Nurse's instigator suspension. The NHL Director of Hockey operations does.
DOPS will review Pietrangelo. they have way to give him a $5000 fine and say, 'we had nothing to do with Nurse's decision.'


True, its Hockey Ops according to 46.21, but isn't DoPS in Hockey Ops, and wouldn't they consult the refs, DoPS in a review?



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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823226 is a reply to message #823222 ]
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Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:21

correction - the DOPS doesn't review Nurse's instigator suspension. The NHL Director of Hockey operations does.
DOPS will review Pietrangelo. they have way to give him a $5000 fine and say, 'we had nothing to do with Nurse's decision.'


Think I saw that the decision on instigator suspensions was moved to DoPS to decide a while back. Maybe just for consistency.


here is Dreger's tweet about it:

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
To clarify, @NHLPlayerSafety will determine whether or not to remove the automatic 1 game suspension to Nurse. NHL Director of Officiating, Stephen Walkom decides on rescinding of the instigator. Rarely is the Instigator penalty rescinded, but auto suspension can be.



Walkom decides if the instigator stands, but Perros decides on enforcing the penalty.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:28]


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823228 is a reply to message #823226 ]
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:26

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:21

correction - the DOPS doesn't review Nurse's instigator suspension. The NHL Director of Hockey operations does.
DOPS will review Pietrangelo. they have way to give him a $5000 fine and say, 'we had nothing to do with Nurse's decision.'


Think I saw that the decision on instigator suspensions was moved to DoPS to decide a while back. Maybe just for consistency.


here is Dreger's tweet about it:

Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
To clarify, @NHLPlayerSafety will determine whether or not to remove the automatic 1 game suspension to Nurse. NHL Director of Officiating, Stephen Walkom decides on rescinding of the instigator. Rarely is the Instigator penalty rescinded, but auto suspension can be.



Walkom decides if the instigator stands, but Perros decides on enforcing the penalty.


Thanks for clarification.



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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823219 is a reply to message #823116 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Its official..

As expected.. Pietrangelo gets the $5,000 fine!
https://twitter.com/NHLPlayerSafely/status/16567341331237068 80?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet


Fkg hilarious.

rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl
Quote:

NHL Player Safety
@NHLPlayerSafely
Vegas’ Alex Pietrangelo has been fined $5,000, the maximum allowable under the CBA, for slashing against Edmonton’s Leon Draisaitl.

Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game under Rule 46.21, Instigating in the Final Five Minutes of Regulation.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 15:18]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823221 is a reply to message #823219 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:16

Its official..

As expected.. Pietrangelo gets the $5,000 fine!
https://twitter.com/NHLPlayerSafely/status/16567341331237068 80?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet


Fkg hilarious.

rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl
Quote:

NHL Player Safety
@NHLPlayerSafely
Vegas’ Alex Pietrangelo has been fined $5,000, the maximum allowable under the CBA, for slashing against Edmonton’s Leon Draisaitl.

Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game under Rule 46.21, Instigating in the Final Five Minutes of Regulation.



Parody account :)

@NHLPlayerSafely



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823223 is a reply to message #823221 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:19

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:16

Its official..

As expected.. Pietrangelo gets the $5,000 fine!
https://twitter.com/NHLPlayerSafely/status/16567341331237068 80?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet


Fkg hilarious.

rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl lmao rofl
Quote:

NHL Player Safety
@NHLPlayerSafely
Vegas’ Alex Pietrangelo has been fined $5,000, the maximum allowable under the CBA, for slashing against Edmonton’s Leon Draisaitl.

Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game under Rule 46.21, Instigating in the Final Five Minutes of Regulation.



Parody account :)

@NHLPlayerSafely


Oops.. Got me!



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823224 is a reply to message #823221 ]
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Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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From Bruce McCurdy (sometimes they get a good chuckle)
Clear-eyed observers of the two infractions would surely conclude Pietrangelo’s was by far the more egregious, but the fact is there is no “automatic suspension” element to his actions, unlike those of Nurse. Opinions are currently split as to whether the Vegas captain will get two games to Nurse’s one, or if DoPS will simply balance the scales at one game apiece. Meanwhile, pessimists in these parts are suggesting no suspension for A.P. and perhaps a third-round pick be transferred from Edmonton to Calgary to resolve the matter.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823231 is a reply to message #823224 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:25

From Bruce McCurdy (sometimes they get a good chuckle)
Clear-eyed observers of the two infractions would surely conclude Pietrangelo’s was by far the more egregious, but the fact is there is no “automatic suspension” element to his actions, unlike those of Nurse. Opinions are currently split as to whether the Vegas captain will get two games to Nurse’s one, or if DoPS will simply balance the scales at one game apiece. Meanwhile, pessimists in these parts are suggesting no suspension for A.P. and perhaps a third-round pick be transferred from Edmonton to Calgary to resolve the matter.


Oilers don't have a 3rd, so to maintain order I guess it has to be a 2nd round pick this time.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823236 is a reply to message #823231 ]
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Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:43

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:25

From Bruce McCurdy (sometimes they get a good chuckle)
Clear-eyed observers of the two infractions would surely conclude Pietrangelo’s was by far the more egregious, but the fact is there is no “automatic suspension” element to his actions, unlike those of Nurse. Opinions are currently split as to whether the Vegas captain will get two games to Nurse’s one, or if DoPS will simply balance the scales at one game apiece. Meanwhile, pessimists in these parts are suggesting no suspension for A.P. and perhaps a third-round pick be transferred from Edmonton to Calgary to resolve the matter.


Oilers don't have a 3rd, so to maintain order I guess it has to be a 2nd round pick this time.


.. would a prospect do?



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823232 is a reply to message #823116 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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If Losing Nurse for game 5 doesn't light a fire under this teams arse to put in a good effort in game 5 (vs the turd efforts in 1 and 3), then I don't know what will. We'll miss Nurse, and I'm currently scared of whatever pair Ceci will be on, but nothing this team can't overcome putting in a good effort, especially if Pietro is out for Vegas, by a good margin their top minute all situation D.


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823237 is a reply to message #823232 ]
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RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I would hope it would light a fire under them. They would probably feel pissed Nurse got an unjust in their minds, 1 game, he is one of their boys. Then you factor in McD of all people actually said something about Pietro's slash. It's not often McD gives and actual opinion. He usually gives a pretty politically correct answer deferring to the league. They will especially be pissed off is Pietro gets off light.


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823238 is a reply to message #823116 ]
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Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Seravallis opinion on Nurse suspension..


https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/16567401831762780 22?cxt=HHwWjMCz9eaa9v0tAAAA

Quote:

Frank Seravalli@frank_seravalli

NHL upholds the suspension for Darnell Nurse, which is brutal. Mark Stone said after the game that Nic Hague asked for the fight before the faceoff.

Quote Tweet
NHL Player Safety

@NHLPlayerSafety
·
2h
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:20]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823242 is a reply to message #823238 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:16

Seravallis opinion on Nurse suspension..


https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/status/16567401831762780 22?cxt=HHwWjMCz9eaa9v0tAAAA

Quote:

Frank Seravalli@frank_seravalli

NHL upholds the suspension for Darnell Nurse, which is brutal. Mark Stone said after the game that Nic Hague asked for the fight before the faceoff.

Quote Tweet
NHL Player Safety

@NHLPlayerSafety
·
2h
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.



The league will never overlook an opportunity to stick one to the Oil.

The ref made it easy for the league to follow through by calling the instigator.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823250 is a reply to message #823242 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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nullterm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:52

The league will never overlook an opportunity to stick one to the Oil.

The ref made it easy for the league to follow through by calling the instigator.


The instigator rule is for initiating a fight, there was no fight until Hague threw 8 punches, Hague turned the altercation into a "fight".. prior to that it was a wrestling match, deserving of a roughing call at worst, where the instigator rule doesn't apply.

Horrible ruling.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823258 is a reply to message #823116 ]
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inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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One game for Petro.


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823259 is a reply to message #823116 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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One game.. as it was always going to be.

https://twitter.com/NHLPlayerSafety
Quote:


NHL Player Safety

@NHLPlayerSafety
·
13m
Vegas’ Alex Pietrangelo has been suspended for one playoff game for Slashing against Edmonton’s Leon Draisaitl.
nhl.com
Pietrangelo suspended 1 game
Golden Knights defenseman, Alex Pietrangelo has been suspended for 1 playoff game for slashing Oilers forward, Leo



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823260 is a reply to message #823259 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 21:18

One game.. as it was always going to be.

https://twitter.com/NHLPlayerSafety
Quote:


NHL Player Safety

@NHLPlayerSafety
·
13m
Vegas’ Alex Pietrangelo has been suspended for one playoff game for Slashing against Edmonton’s Leon Draisaitl.
nhl.com
Pietrangelo suspended 1 game
Golden Knights defenseman, Alex Pietrangelo has been suspended for 1 playoff game for slashing Oilers forward, Leo



Awesome. Well, let’s get Vinnie to go break Eichel’s ankle. He’ll miss game 6. All good.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823261 is a reply to message #823260 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Mike wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 17:25

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 21:18

One game.. as it was always going to be.

https://twitter.com/NHLPlayerSafety
Quote:


NHL Player Safety

@NHLPlayerSafety
·
13m
Vegas’ Alex Pietrangelo has been suspended for one playoff game for Slashing against Edmonton’s Leon Draisaitl.
nhl.com
Pietrangelo suspended 1 game
Golden Knights defenseman, Alex Pietrangelo has been suspended for 1 playoff game for slashing Oilers forward, Leo



Awesome. Well, let’s get Vinnie to go break Eichel’s ankle. He’ll miss game 6. All good.


PA is their top player, he's on the PK, PP, and responsible for a lot of their puck movement up ice.. it'll be interesting to see how much pressure the Oil can put on Theodore and how he handles it .. it wasn't looking too good last game.

Bouchard Viking

Ceci Kulak

Dezzie BroBerg

Kulak + Ceci might be able to handle the load..

Big question is Broberg.. he'll be on his proper side so he should feel more at home than playing the RD like he's done at times in the playoffs so far.




McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823267 is a reply to message #823261 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 17:33

Mike wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 17:25

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 21:18

One game.. as it was always going to be.

https://twitter.com/NHLPlayerSafety
Quote:


NHL Player Safety

@NHLPlayerSafety
·
13m
Vegas’ Alex Pietrangelo has been suspended for one playoff game for Slashing against Edmonton’s Leon Draisaitl.
nhl.com
Pietrangelo suspended 1 game
Golden Knights defenseman, Alex Pietrangelo has been suspended for 1 playoff game for slashing Oilers forward, Leo



Awesome. Well, let’s get Vinnie to go break Eichel’s ankle. He’ll miss game 6. All good.


PA is their top player, he's on the PK, PP, and responsible for a lot of their puck movement up ice.. it'll be interesting to see how much pressure the Oil can put on Theodore and how he handles it .. it wasn't looking too good last game.

Bouchard Viking

Ceci Kulak

Dezzie BroBerg

Kulak + Ceci might be able to handle the load..

Big question is Broberg.. he'll be on his proper side so he should feel more at home than playing the RD like he's done at times in the playoffs so far.




Not liking the idea of Vinny and Broberg on the ice together. I like Vinny, but he gets exposed by quick teams.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823268 is a reply to message #823267 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 3895
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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nullterm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 18:53

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 17:33

PA is their top player, he's on the PK, PP, and responsible for a lot of their puck movement up ice.. it'll be interesting to see how much pressure the Oil can put on Theodore and how he handles it .. it wasn't looking too good last game.

Bouchard Viking

Ceci Kulak

Dezzie BroBerg

Kulak + Ceci might be able to handle the load..

Big question is Broberg.. he'll be on his proper side so he should feel more at home than playing the RD like he's done at times in the playoffs so far.




Not liking the idea of Vinny and Broberg on the ice together. I like Vinny, but he gets exposed by quick teams.


I think they would get VERY limited ice time.. together.. probably more likely alternate with Ceci and Kulak ie.

Ceci Kulak

Ceci Broberg

Dezzie Kulak



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