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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809653 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
Messages: 1548
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

JP is the latest but perhaps most perfect example of why I fear the Oilers with not win a cup any time soon.
I am not saying this because I think JP is elite. My fandom of him is well known but even those of us at the top of the fan club are often frustrated by his untapped potential.

Taking the emotion out of my thoughts on JP, and purely looking at this from an asset management point of view, is more what I am referring to.

JP;
- scored at a rate that us justified by his place in the lineup, salary and age.
- by every measure he was one of the better forwards defensively.
- is cost controlled

Those three basic points are proven quantifiably. His draft position, birth place, first language, favorite pizza play no part in that point of view.

The Oilers, at most points in the season, needed;
- secondary scoring
- better defensive play

JP checked those boxes

Going into this offseason it is well known the Oilers are tight to the cap.
- even with a modest raise, JP's numbers would still make him a fair price for his contribution.

If the rumors are true, and JP is traded for a pick, it would open up anther need that the team needs to fill with limited ability to do so.
- The pick the would receive is not likely to contribute for multiple season
- the cap savings wouldn't be enough to sign a replacement in FA
- I am not convinced that there is a player in the system ready to step in to his spot opening night.

That last one is likely the best chance but hoping an unproven young player can play an important role is a big gamble.

Back to my original statement regarding zero cup wins. This kind of asset management is not how a team takes the next step to being a true contender.
Every single time a useful piece is abandoned by the team it opens up a new hole in the roster. Good teams are finding ways in the offseason to negotiate the cap while keeping the best pieces in place.

There area number of obvious holes in the roster. There are spots that would be nice to improve. Moving JP for a draft pick will do nothing but create one more problem to solve while receiving back no way to do so.

The day the trade is announced, if it is for a pick, will be the day I will once again cast my vote for the Oilers to be a playoff team but not a true contender. This is what they have been, on paper, most years since McDavid.
They will continue to be just that until they learn the simplest of asset management lessons.



Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809654 is a reply to message #809653 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

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PlusOne wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 19:09

JP is the latest but perhaps most perfect example of why I fear the Oilers with not win a cup any time soon.
I am not saying this because I think JP is elite. My fandom of him is well known but even those of us at the top of the fan club are often frustrated by his untapped potential.

Taking the emotion out of my thoughts on JP, and purely looking at this from an asset management point of view, is more what I am referring to.

JP;
- scored at a rate that us justified by his place in the lineup, salary and age.
- by every measure he was one of the better forwards defensively.
- is cost controlled

Those three basic points are proven quantifiably. His draft position, birth place, first language, favorite pizza play no part in that point of view.

The Oilers, at most points in the season, needed;
- secondary scoring
- better defensive play

JP checked those boxes

Going into this offseason it is well known the Oilers are tight to the cap.
- even with a modest raise, JP's numbers would still make him a fair price for his contribution.

If the rumors are true, and JP is traded for a pick, it would open up anther need that the team needs to fill with limited ability to do so.
- The pick the would receive is not likely to contribute for multiple season
- the cap savings wouldn't be enough to sign a replacement in FA
- I am not convinced that there is a player in the system ready to step in to his spot opening night.

That last one is likely the best chance but hoping an unproven young player can play an important role is a big gamble.

Back to my original statement regarding zero cup wins. This kind of asset management is not how a team takes the next step to being a true contender.
Every single time a useful piece is abandoned by the team it opens up a new hole in the roster. Good teams are finding ways in the offseason to negotiate the cap while keeping the best pieces in place.

There area number of obvious holes in the roster. There are spots that would be nice to improve. Moving JP for a draft pick will do nothing but create one more problem to solve while receiving back no way to do so.

The day the trade is announced, if it is for a pick, will be the day I will once again cast my vote for the Oilers to be a playoff team but not a true contender. This is what they have been, on paper, most years since McDavid.
They will continue to be just that until they learn the simplest of asset management lessons.

I don’t know if you’re factoring in that the 2024 3rd round is looking stacked with prospects



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809657 is a reply to message #809654 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 20:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
Messages: 1373
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Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

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It would be so Oilers to ship off a solid actual NHLer for magic beans while in win now mode.

I know some in here don’t like comparisons to Nichushkin, but he’s really a perfect comparison. But imo, he’s a picture perfect example of why you keep JP. Both huge wingers that were ranked at the top of their draft class (Nichushkin was pegged to go anywhere from 4-7 iirc). Both guys had a bit of a bumpy ride with their respective teams. And both guys had/have solid underlying numbers. We’ve heard it about Nichushkin for 2-3 years now. And this year we saw the his numbers shoot up. I think Jesse is ahead of where Nichushkin was at the same stage by quite a bit. I believe he will have a huge jump in production in the next year or two. Thing is, even if he doesn’t, the guy we got this year is absolutely a valuable piece on this team. Definitely someone who can help a team in win now mode win a Cup.

But sure - let’s toss him to the curb for peanuts and spend another year or two trying to plug that hole adequately.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809659 is a reply to message #809657 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Mike wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 20:13

It would be so Oilers to ship off a solid actual NHLer for magic beans while in win now mode.

I know some in here don’t like comparisons to Nichushkin, but he’s really a perfect comparison. But imo, he’s a picture perfect example of why you keep JP. Both huge wingers that were ranked at the top of their draft class (Nichushkin was pegged to go anywhere from 4-7 iirc). Both guys had a bit of a bumpy ride with their respective teams. And both guys had/have solid underlying numbers. We’ve heard it about Nichushkin for 2-3 years now. And this year we saw the his numbers shoot up. I think Jesse is ahead of where Nichushkin was at the same stage by quite a bit. I believe he will have a huge jump in production in the next year or two. Thing is, even if he doesn’t, the guy we got this year is absolutely a valuable piece on this team. Definitely someone who can help a team in win now mode win a Cup.

But sure - let’s toss him to the curb for peanuts and spend another year or two trying to plug that hole adequately.

Does a team really want a player on the roster if they're not a superstar? After all we traded Taylor Hall because we got JP, so he should really be challenging for Hart trophies by now



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809660 is a reply to message #809659 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 986
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No Cups

I love this team.

But there are times I legitimately loathe this team when it walks right into a stupid decision.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809666 is a reply to message #809660 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1698
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

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nullterm wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 23:50

I love this team.

But there are times I legitimately loathe this team when it walks right into a stupid decision.

Also, why is it telegraphed every time? Why do all the local media hacks start socializing the idea that losing the trade is the best outcome well before it happens?

If JP wants out, you tell him to shut up. Don’t do any interviews, not even finnish ones, and then you make a couple calls. Frankly I’d even tell him I’m not moving him in the off-season but that if he puts a few pucks away early next year and pumps his value then we can talk about a mid-season trade.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809655 is a reply to message #809653 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 19:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10432
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 19:09

JP is the latest but perhaps most perfect example of why I fear the Oilers with not win a cup any time soon.
I am not saying this because I think JP is elite. My fandom of him is well known but even those of us at the top of the fan club are often frustrated by his untapped potential.

Taking the emotion out of my thoughts on JP, and purely looking at this from an asset management point of view, is more what I am referring to.

JP;
- scored at a rate that us justified by his place in the lineup, salary and age.
- by every measure he was one of the better forwards defensively.
- is cost controlled

Those three basic points are proven quantifiably. His draft position, birth place, first language, favorite pizza play no part in that point of view.

The Oilers, at most points in the season, needed;
- secondary scoring
- better defensive play

JP checked those boxes

Going into this offseason it is well known the Oilers are tight to the cap.
- even with a modest raise, JP's numbers would still make him a fair price for his contribution.

If the rumors are true, and JP is traded for a pick, it would open up anther need that the team needs to fill with limited ability to do so.
- The pick the would receive is not likely to contribute for multiple season
- the cap savings wouldn't be enough to sign a replacement in FA
- I am not convinced that there is a player in the system ready to step in to his spot opening night.

That last one is likely the best chance but hoping an unproven young player can play an important role is a big gamble.

Back to my original statement regarding zero cup wins. This kind of asset management is not how a team takes the next step to being a true contender.
Every single time a useful piece is abandoned by the team it opens up a new hole in the roster. Good teams are finding ways in the offseason to negotiate the cap while keeping the best pieces in place.

There area number of obvious holes in the roster. There are spots that would be nice to improve. Moving JP for a draft pick will do nothing but create one more problem to solve while receiving back no way to do so.

The day the trade is announced, if it is for a pick, will be the day I will once again cast my vote for the Oilers to be a playoff team but not a true contender. This is what they have been, on paper, most years since McDavid.
They will continue to be just that until they learn the simplest of asset management lessons.


I hope at the very least we are going to trade for a decent player in a similar situation. As soon as I saw the same story with the Leafs and Mikheyev parting ways. Mikheyev is going to be UFA, so this would not be a 1:1, but if you had permission to agree to an extension with him, the Leafs only would have to add a little. Mikheyev fills a similar role, plays RW, good 2-way player, excellent PKer. Probably finishes better than Pulju. Not sure he is a guy you play on a top line, but very good middle-6 forward.

I could live with that kind of deal, considering what we're used to as Oilers fans.

Just a pick or picks though? Pitiful, and definitely a fresh sign we're not gonna make it.

[Updated on: Thu, 30 June 2022 20:15]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809673 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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While Edmonton media goes into full run JP outta town mode, it is fact there has been incredible interest in Jesse Puljujarvi throughout the league. While Holland likely loses any trade he pulls the trigger on involving Jesse, he has several to mull over and it won’t just be a pick return.


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809679 is a reply to message #809673 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 10:02

nullterm wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 23:50

I love this team.

But there are times I legitimately loathe this team when it walks right into a stupid decision.

Also, why is it telegraphed every time? Why do all the local media hacks start socializing the idea that losing the trade is the best outcome well before it happens?

If JP wants out, you tell him to shut up. Don’t do any interviews, not even finnish ones, and then you make a couple calls. Frankly I’d even tell him I’m not moving him in the off-season but that if he puts a few pucks away early next year and pumps his value then we can talk about a mid-season trade.

It's because the Oilers are primarily a marketing vehicle, a real estate venture, and public relations firm. They are not a hockey team. A hockey team would be vigilant about everything that impacted its hockey players and hockey assets. The Oilers are not. They use the media to protect what it values, not players but marketing reach.



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809680 is a reply to message #809679 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 986
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Location: Port Moody, BC

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CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 13:41

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 10:02

nullterm wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 23:50

I love this team.

But there are times I legitimately loathe this team when it walks right into a stupid decision.

Also, why is it telegraphed every time? Why do all the local media hacks start socializing the idea that losing the trade is the best outcome well before it happens?

If JP wants out, you tell him to shut up. Don’t do any interviews, not even finnish ones, and then you make a couple calls. Frankly I’d even tell him I’m not moving him in the off-season but that if he puts a few pucks away early next year and pumps his value then we can talk about a mid-season trade.

It's because the Oilers are primarily a marketing vehicle, a real estate venture, and public relations firm. They are not a hockey team. A hockey team would be vigilant about everything that impacted its hockey players and hockey assets. The Oilers are not. They use the media to protect what it values, not players but marketing reach.



Anytime a corporation is going to make the same amount of money whether it does great or bad, it will more often then not do it badly.

Edmonton is such a rabid hockey market and also the only show in town. So all they need to do is just keep rotating in people who will tow the line for a few years.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809688 is a reply to message #809680 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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nullterm wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 15:15

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 13:41

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 10:02

nullterm wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 23:50

I love this team.

But there are times I legitimately loathe this team when it walks right into a stupid decision.

Also, why is it telegraphed every time? Why do all the local media hacks start socializing the idea that losing the trade is the best outcome well before it happens?

If JP wants out, you tell him to shut up. Don’t do any interviews, not even finnish ones, and then you make a couple calls. Frankly I’d even tell him I’m not moving him in the off-season but that if he puts a few pucks away early next year and pumps his value then we can talk about a mid-season trade.

It's because the Oilers are primarily a marketing vehicle, a real estate venture, and public relations firm. They are not a hockey team. A hockey team would be vigilant about everything that impacted its hockey players and hockey assets. The Oilers are not. They use the media to protect what it values, not players but marketing reach.



Anytime a corporation is going to make the same amount of money whether it does great or bad, it will more often then not do it badly.

Edmonton is such a rabid hockey market and also the only show in town. So all they need to do is just keep rotating in people who will tow the line for a few years.

Is it? There’s been a lot empty seats for the last four years. Even before covid, seat ticket holders dried, the wait list was shown to be a lie, and it sure looked like revenue was way way down.



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809683 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Location: Edmonton

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Daniel Nugent-Bowman went straight to Holland and got quotes that the Oilers aren't actively shopping pulju and pulju has not asked to be traded.

What are we to believe here? Lots of Oiler media's guys have already shown clearly they want pulju gone so probably can't trust Spector and gang much.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809691 is a reply to message #809683 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 16:19

Daniel Nugent-Bowman went straight to Holland and got quotes that the Oilers aren't actively shopping pulju and pulju has not asked to be traded.

What are we to believe here? Lots of Oiler media's guys have already shown clearly they want pulju gone so probably can't trust Spector and gang much.


No need for him to ‘actively shop Pulju’ when his organization’s propaganda lackies are telling the world to call him 🤷🏻‍♂️



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809692 is a reply to message #809691 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 21:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 20:45

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 16:19

Daniel Nugent-Bowman went straight to Holland and got quotes that the Oilers aren't actively shopping pulju and pulju has not asked to be traded.

What are we to believe here? Lots of Oiler media's guys have already shown clearly they want pulju gone so probably can't trust Spector and gang much.


No need for him to ‘actively shop Pulju’ when his organization’s propaganda lackies are telling the world to call him 🤷🏻‍♂️


How many teams with good analytics departments calling does Holland need to hear from before he starts to consider Pulju might be a valuable asset we should keep?



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809693 is a reply to message #809692 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 21:19

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 20:45

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 16:19

Daniel Nugent-Bowman went straight to Holland and got quotes that the Oilers aren't actively shopping pulju and pulju has not asked to be traded.

What are we to believe here? Lots of Oiler media's guys have already shown clearly they want pulju gone so probably can't trust Spector and gang much.


No need for him to ‘actively shop Pulju’ when his organization’s propaganda lackies are telling the world to call him 🤷🏻‍♂️


How many teams with good analytics departments calling does Holland need to hear from before he starts to consider Pulju might be a valuable asset we should keep?


Probably another 4



Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
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Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809695 is a reply to message #809692 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 21:19

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 20:45

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 16:19

Daniel Nugent-Bowman went straight to Holland and got quotes that the Oilers aren't actively shopping pulju and pulju has not asked to be traded.

What are we to believe here? Lots of Oiler media's guys have already shown clearly they want pulju gone so probably can't trust Spector and gang much.


No need for him to ‘actively shop Pulju’ when his organization’s propaganda lackies are telling the world to call him 🤷🏻‍♂️


How many teams with good analytics departments calling does Holland need to hear from before he starts to consider Pulju might be a valuable asset we should keep?


Hey, he might start to doubt himself and his assessment of Puljujarvi, and then they'll offer up the next Josh Archibald, or a second round pick in the first half of the round and then how does Kenny turn that down?



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809698 is a reply to message #809695 ]
Sat, 02 July 2022 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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Adam wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 22:15

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 21:19

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 20:45

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 16:19

Daniel Nugent-Bowman went straight to Holland and got quotes that the Oilers aren't actively shopping pulju and pulju has not asked to be traded.

What are we to believe here? Lots of Oiler media's guys have already shown clearly they want pulju gone so probably can't trust Spector and gang much.


No need for him to ‘actively shop Pulju’ when his organization’s propaganda lackies are telling the world to call him 🤷🏻‍♂️


How many teams with good analytics departments calling does Holland need to hear from before he starts to consider Pulju might be a valuable asset we should keep?


Hey, he might start to doubt himself and his assessment of Puljujarvi, and then they'll offer up the next Josh Archibald, or a second round pick in the first half of the round and then how does Kenny turn that down?

Imagine having two Archibald's on a single roster. Teams would forfeit instead of facing the Oil!



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809743 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Mon, 04 July 2022 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Just read a few tweets re; Puljujarvi;

- ten forwards from his draft class have more points than him
- he was on the ice for 28 5V5 goals against ALL SEASON
- His GA/60 was 1.8. This is THE BEST for an Oiler forward, with over 800 minutes played, since 2007

So if all that matters is goals for and against he is doing fine compared to his draft class offensively, and is elite compared to 15 years of Oilers forwards defensively.

The media BS seems to have softened the last day or two. Maybe the team gave its collective head a shake and they wont trade him for magic beans.



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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809744 is a reply to message #809743 ]
Mon, 04 July 2022 20:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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PlusOne wrote on Mon, 04 July 2022 19:47

Just read a few tweets re; Puljujarvi;

- ten forwards from his draft class have more points than him
- he was on the ice for 28 5V5 goals against ALL SEASON
- His GA/60 was 1.8. This is THE BEST for an Oiler forward, with over 800 minutes played, since 2007

So if all that matters is goals for and against he is doing fine compared to his draft class offensively, and is elite compared to 15 years of Oilers forwards defensively.

The media BS seems to have softened the last day or two. Maybe the team gave its collective head a shake and they wont trade him for magic beans.

I posted last week based on convo from my friend that they won’t move Jesse for picks. If moved, it’s for a player who can help in the now.

The messaging has been changed in the media bc the direction they’ve been given. Shopping? No. Taking calls and listening? Yes. Media and league circles they know he’s available, for a price.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809745 is a reply to message #809744 ]
Mon, 04 July 2022 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
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Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 04 July 2022 20:12

PlusOne wrote on Mon, 04 July 2022 19:47

Just read a few tweets re; Puljujarvi;

- ten forwards from his draft class have more points than him
- he was on the ice for 28 5V5 goals against ALL SEASON
- His GA/60 was 1.8. This is THE BEST for an Oiler forward, with over 800 minutes played, since 2007

So if all that matters is goals for and against he is doing fine compared to his draft class offensively, and is elite compared to 15 years of Oilers forwards defensively.

The media BS seems to have softened the last day or two. Maybe the team gave its collective head a shake and they wont trade him for magic beans.

I posted last week based on convo from my friend that they won’t move Jesse for picks. If moved, it’s for a player who can help in the now.

The messaging has been changed in the media bc the direction they’ve been given. Shopping? No. Taking calls and listening? Yes. Media and league circles they know he’s available, for a price.


Ya, I saw that post and gave me some hope. I hope your guy is right and also hope you aren't another Touchstone.
I love JP but if he gets moved for a player that can actually help the team win more then I am all for it. I have doubts that is possible within the same cap number as JP would come in at.
Everyone, outside of a VERY select few, should be available, for a price! That price should be anything that helps the team win NOW

The diff between shopping and available is huge. For as long as social media has been a thing* the oilers had giving marching orders to the media. This often resulted in players being sewered until half the fan base, or more, was convinced the player was worthless.
Watching these "castoffs" flourish in other cities is so frustrating yet has come to be expected very single off season.

*maybe longer but living outside Edmonton I didnt see or hear anything from local media until Twitter



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809748 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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I've seen people, here and in other places, use Nichushkin as a comparable to Puljujarvi, both as a reason to sign Puljujarvi as they are on a similar career trajectory and as an indication that Puljujarvi is going to break out, but also as a salary comp and a indicator that the Oilers should pay him in the $2.5M range.

Nichushkin signed his most recent deal as an RFA in 2020 after scoring 13G/27pts in 65 games. I believe that the 1st year of that deal was an RFA and the 2nd was an UFA year, but I'm not going to look into it that closely, so feel free to correct me if I'm incorrect. Puljujarvi has 2 years of RFA status left, (again, I think. I'm not going to spend that much time on it), and is coming off of a 14G/36pts in 65 game season. So from that perspective the 2 players look pretty similar.

However, as I mentioned, Nichushkin signed his deal in 2020. I'm not sure that the market is the same as it was back then. I'm on the record as saying that I think that the Oilers would be smart to sign Puljujarvi to a longer term (~5 year), deal in the $4M range. And that's not because I hope he will be a 25 goal scorer at some point in the future. It's because I think he's likely worth about that money now, and if he does turn into a 25 goal scorer then that deal becomes really good value.

I've tried to look at this as objectively as possible, so I pulled all the RFA forwards that signed deals over the past season, and filtered for contracts between $2.5MM - $5MM in value.

Denis Gurianov (25) - 1 year/$2.9M AAV. Last season scored 11G/31pts in 73 games. If the Oilers want to sign Puljujarvi to a one year RFA deal, this is probably the benchmark (although Puljujarvi is slightly higher given their comparative production), but I think there's more risk there for the Oilers than there is for Puljujarvi. All of his numbers are trending up and this past season he dealt with Covid and an injury and still outperformed Gurianov's #'s.

Jack Roslovic (25) - 2 years/$4M AAV. 1 RFA/1 UFA year. Scored 22G/45pts in 81 games in what was a career year for Roslovic (note Jesse's pro-rated numbers from last year were 18G/45pts in 82 games). If the Oilers want to buy any UFA years from Puljujarvi (and I strongly think that they should), this is probably a pretty good comparable and why I feel like $4M isn't an egregious overpay.

Jesperi Kotkaniemi (21) - 8 years/$4.82M AAV. This one is a bit of an outlier in terms of price for performance as Kotkaniemi is coming off of a 12G/29pts in 66 games season. Clearly the Hurricanes are paying for potential here, but this is also a contract that is out there, and one that Puljujarvi's camp would be using in negotiations.

Jake Debrusk (25) - 2 years/$4M AAV. 25G/42pts in 77 games this year after a down year the year before. This is another 1RFA/1 UFA contract. Debrusk is a more proven goal scorer at this point but I don't think he's nearly as good defensively at Puljujarvi.

Jared McCann (25) - 5 years/$5MM AAV. 27G/50 pts in 74 games last season. If the Oilers decide to go short term with Puljujarvi this year, I think there's a very good chance that this is what they're looking at for future contracts.

Jordan Greenway (25) - 3 years/$3MM AAV. 10G/27pts in 62 games last year. 6G/32pts in 56 games the year before. He signed this deal in January, so that may have held more weight. Regardless, this is likely the lowest that I think the Oilers could possibly get Puljujarvi to sign on any deal that includes any UFA years, and that's a pretty big stretch given Puljujarvi's higher production.

Based on the above, particularly the Roslovic and Greenway's deals, I think that there's a decent argument to be made that Puljujarvi at $4M for 4-5 years in today's market is a fair contract and that's before you factor in his defensive play and his exceptional underlying numbers:

56% CF% / 57% SCF% / 50% GF% / 56% xGF% in 133 min without McDavid/Draisaitl on the ice.

I probably don't need to tell this group that numbers for the rest of the team without one of those 3 on the ice are much worse.

Jesse Puljujarvi is a good hockey player and if the Oilers are going to move on from him, I hope that it's for a deal that makes sense. I've seen Connor Brown's name thrown around and I just don't get it. It's a better deal than getting a 2nd round pick but Mark Spector is out there calling Puljujarvi a "playkiller". Connor Brown only scored 10 goals last year. Yes he had 21 in 56 games the year before, but he also shot 17%. His shooting percentages in his 3 years in OTT are 9.2%/17.1%/8.3% and his career average is 11.7%. I'm pretty sure I know which one of those is the outlier. He's 4 years older than Puljujarvi and has one more season at $3.6M before becoming a UFA. Best case scenario, the Oilers save around $400k compared to what they might have to pay Puljujarvi on a longer deal (or actually pay a bit more vs what they might be able to get Jesse on a 1-2 year deal), and then Brown comes in and has a great year and they can't afford his next contract anyways. I don't see how that trade benefits the Oilers really in the short or long term.

Like a lot of people on here, I don't think the Oilers should sign Puljujarvi no matter the cost. But, man, I think that the team misses him if he's not here next year.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20 212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&s core=all&rate=n&team=EDM&vteam=ALL&view=wowy &loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2021-10-12&td=2022-05- 01&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8479344&p2=847840 2&p3=8477934&p4=0&p5=0



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809753 is a reply to message #809748 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 09:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Connor Brown skates around a lot more, so it automatically looks like he's more engaged in the play even though he not as defensively aware as Puljujarvi. Ol'Matty and Spec will love him.


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809754 is a reply to message #809753 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:37

Connor Brown skates around a lot more, so it automatically looks like he's more engaged in the play even though he not as defensively aware as Puljujarvi. Ol'Matty and Spec will love him.


Brown's value is more that he is good friends with McDavid and his mentor from Jr.

Keeping McDavid happy is going to be very important in the coming years if we aren't able to build a real contender.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809757 is a reply to message #809754 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:43

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:37

Connor Brown skates around a lot more, so it automatically looks like he's more engaged in the play even though he not as defensively aware as Puljujarvi. Ol'Matty and Spec will love him.


Brown's value is more that he is good friends with McDavid and his mentor from Jr.

Keeping McDavid happy is going to be very important in the coming years if we aren't able to build a real contender.


Rather get a Strome if we are chasing buddies.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809772 is a reply to message #809757 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 08:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:43

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:37

Connor Brown skates around a lot more, so it automatically looks like he's more engaged in the play even though he not as defensively aware as Puljujarvi. Ol'Matty and Spec will love him.


Brown's value is more that he is good friends with McDavid and his mentor from Jr.

Keeping McDavid happy is going to be very important in the coming years if we aren't able to build a real contender.


Rather get a Strome if we are chasing buddies.



Or DeBrincat. Puljujarvi and the 1st for DeBrincat is a trade that I can wrap my head around. Downgrading Puljujarvi, as Adam said Rishaug was suggesting, just screams the Eberle move all over again.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809774 is a reply to message #809772 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 10:52

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 08:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:43

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:37

Connor Brown skates around a lot more, so it automatically looks like he's more engaged in the play even though he not as defensively aware as Puljujarvi. Ol'Matty and Spec will love him.


Brown's value is more that he is good friends with McDavid and his mentor from Jr.

Keeping McDavid happy is going to be very important in the coming years if we aren't able to build a real contender.


Rather get a Strome if we are chasing buddies.



Or DeBrincat. Puljujarvi and the 1st for DeBrincat is a trade that I can wrap my head around. Downgrading Puljujarvi, as Adam said Rishaug was suggesting, just screams the Eberle move all over again.


We shot a load at Foegele. I agree with the Debrincat idea. We need to get the first tier McDavid friend group.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809775 is a reply to message #809772 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 10:52

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 08:48

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:43

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:37

Connor Brown skates around a lot more, so it automatically looks like he's more engaged in the play even though he not as defensively aware as Puljujarvi. Ol'Matty and Spec will love him.


Brown's value is more that he is good friends with McDavid and his mentor from Jr.

Keeping McDavid happy is going to be very important in the coming years if we aren't able to build a real contender.


Rather get a Strome if we are chasing buddies.



Or DeBrincat. Puljujarvi and the 1st for DeBrincat is a trade that I can wrap my head around. Downgrading Puljujarvi, as Adam said Rishaug was suggesting, just screams the Eberle move all over again.


Well, why not just get Brown, Strome AND DeBrincat??

McDavid's friends. COLLECT THEM ALL!


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809776 is a reply to message #809775 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809760 is a reply to message #809748 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 01:12

I've seen people, here and in other places, use Nichushkin as a comparable to Puljujarvi, both as a reason to sign Puljujarvi as they are on a similar career trajectory and as an indication that Puljujarvi is going to break out, but also as a salary comp and a indicator that the Oilers should pay him in the $2.5M range.

Nichushkin signed his most recent deal as an RFA in 2020 after scoring 13G/27pts in 65 games. I believe that the 1st year of that deal was an RFA and the 2nd was an UFA year, but I'm not going to look into it that closely, so feel free to correct me if I'm incorrect. Puljujarvi has 2 years of RFA status left, (again, I think. I'm not going to spend that much time on it), and is coming off of a 14G/36pts in 65 game season. So from that perspective the 2 players look pretty similar.

However, as I mentioned, Nichushkin signed his deal in 2020. I'm not sure that the market is the same as it was back then. I'm on the record as saying that I think that the Oilers would be smart to sign Puljujarvi to a longer term (~5 year), deal in the $4M range. And that's not because I hope he will be a 25 goal scorer at some point in the future. It's because I think he's likely worth about that money now, and if he does turn into a 25 goal scorer then that deal becomes really good value.

I've tried to look at this as objectively as possible, so I pulled all the RFA forwards that signed deals over the past season, and filtered for contracts between $2.5MM - $5MM in value.

Denis Gurianov (25) - 1 year/$2.9M AAV. Last season scored 11G/31pts in 73 games. If the Oilers want to sign Puljujarvi to a one year RFA deal, this is probably the benchmark (although Puljujarvi is slightly higher given their comparative production), but I think there's more risk there for the Oilers than there is for Puljujarvi. All of his numbers are trending up and this past season he dealt with Covid and an injury and still outperformed Gurianov's #'s.

Jack Roslovic (25) - 2 years/$4M AAV. 1 RFA/1 UFA year. Scored 22G/45pts in 81 games in what was a career year for Roslovic (note Jesse's pro-rated numbers from last year were 18G/45pts in 82 games). If the Oilers want to buy any UFA years from Puljujarvi (and I strongly think that they should), this is probably a pretty good comparable and why I feel like $4M isn't an egregious overpay.

Jesperi Kotkaniemi (21) - 8 years/$4.82M AAV. This one is a bit of an outlier in terms of price for performance as Kotkaniemi is coming off of a 12G/29pts in 66 games season. Clearly the Hurricanes are paying for potential here, but this is also a contract that is out there, and one that Puljujarvi's camp would be using in negotiations.

Jake Debrusk (25) - 2 years/$4M AAV. 25G/42pts in 77 games this year after a down year the year before. This is another 1RFA/1 UFA contract. Debrusk is a more proven goal scorer at this point but I don't think he's nearly as good defensively at Puljujarvi.

Jared McCann (25) - 5 years/$5MM AAV. 27G/50 pts in 74 games last season. If the Oilers decide to go short term with Puljujarvi this year, I think there's a very good chance that this is what they're looking at for future contracts.

Jordan Greenway (25) - 3 years/$3MM AAV. 10G/27pts in 62 games last year. 6G/32pts in 56 games the year before. He signed this deal in January, so that may have held more weight. Regardless, this is likely the lowest that I think the Oilers could possibly get Puljujarvi to sign on any deal that includes any UFA years, and that's a pretty big stretch given Puljujarvi's higher production.

Based on the above, particularly the Roslovic and Greenway's deals, I think that there's a decent argument to be made that Puljujarvi at $4M for 4-5 years in today's market is a fair contract and that's before you factor in his defensive play and his exceptional underlying numbers:

56% CF% / 57% SCF% / 50% GF% / 56% xGF% in 133 min without McDavid/Draisaitl on the ice.

I probably don't need to tell this group that numbers for the rest of the team without one of those 3 on the ice are much worse.

Jesse Puljujarvi is a good hockey player and if the Oilers are going to move on from him, I hope that it's for a deal that makes sense. I've seen Connor Brown's name thrown around and I just don't get it. It's a better deal than getting a 2nd round pick but Mark Spector is out there calling Puljujarvi a "playkiller". Connor Brown only scored 10 goals last year. Yes he had 21 in 56 games the year before, but he also shot 17%. His shooting percentages in his 3 years in OTT are 9.2%/17.1%/8.3% and his career average is 11.7%. I'm pretty sure I know which one of those is the outlier. He's 4 years older than Puljujarvi and has one more season at $3.6M before becoming a UFA. Best case scenario, the Oilers save around $400k compared to what they might have to pay Puljujarvi on a longer deal (or actually pay a bit more vs what they might be able to get Jesse on a 1-2 year deal), and then Brown comes in and has a great year and they can't afford his next contract anyways. I don't see how that trade benefits the Oilers really in the short or long term.

Like a lot of people on here, I don't think the Oilers should sign Puljujarvi no matter the cost. But, man, I think that the team misses him if he's not here next year.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20 212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&s core=all&rate=n&team=EDM&vteam=ALL&view=wowy &loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2021-10-12&td=2022-05- 01&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8479344&p2=847840 2&p3=8477934&p4=0&p5=0


Rishaug saying that the target should be a 3RW for Puljujarvi.

Honestly, if that's what this team does, then they just demonstrate again how much they don't get it.

I'm not 100% opposed to trading Puljujarvi, but if you're going to trade him, then you need to make the trade accretive. The guy you get can't be a step down again.

Also, knowing that the media is all in the organization's pocket, they should be telling those guys in no uncertain terms that they're only trading Puljujarvi if they can see a clear win for the team. Get them to shut up. Running him down every day in the media for the last two weeks does nothing positive for your value. If I'm a GM of another team, I'm watching that and saying A) it's clear you want to get rid of him, B) it's becoming a toxic place for him to play, so he's not likely to be successful if he stays in Edmonton. Both those just mean that the price is coming way, way down. I'm definitely not starting with any good offers.

I mean, with Holland's history, you'd be starting out by lowballing him no matter what, but add all this noise in? It's guaranteed that you're offering bargain basement prices and seeing if he just bites and you can get a great value deal. That will even help you in your salary negotiation when you can say that the Oilers gave you up for peanuts.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809755 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.



Clean house or bust

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809758 is a reply to message #809755 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44

It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.


It's the Oilers way.

Why did we trade Cogs anyway? Just decided we need to wipe out all memories of a rebuild to start a new one?

This article says he didn't compete hard enough and couldn't win faceoffs.

https://oilersnation.com/2011/07/12/oilers-trade-cogliano/

Not good enough for the dominant winning team Tambo was building in 2011, and years before as he was shopping him every summer.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809759 is a reply to message #809758 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:50

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44

It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.


It's the Oilers way.

Why did we trade Cogs anyway? Just decided we need to wipe out all memories of a rebuild to start a new one?

This article says he didn't compete hard enough and couldn't win faceoffs.

https://oilersnation.com/2011/07/12/oilers-trade-cogliano/

Not good enough for the dominant winning team Tambo was building in 2011, and years before as he was shopping him every summer.


Sleepy Steve wakes up and makes one of his handful of trades as an Oilers GM and it was a stinker.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809761 is a reply to message #809758 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:50

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44

It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.


It's the Oilers way.

Why did we trade Cogs anyway? Just decided we need to wipe out all memories of a rebuild to start a new one?

This article says he didn't compete hard enough and couldn't win faceoffs.

https://oilersnation.com/2011/07/12/oilers-trade-cogliano/

Not good enough for the dominant winning team Tambo was building in 2011, and years before as he was shopping him every summer.


Also we'd just signed Eric Belanger and how many centers can you have?



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809764 is a reply to message #809761 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 10:11

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:50

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44

It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.


It's the Oilers way.

Why did we trade Cogs anyway? Just decided we need to wipe out all memories of a rebuild to start a new one?

This article says he didn't compete hard enough and couldn't win faceoffs.

https://oilersnation.com/2011/07/12/oilers-trade-cogliano/

Not good enough for the dominant winning team Tambo was building in 2011, and years before as he was shopping him every summer.


Also we'd just signed Eric Belanger and how many centers can you have?


Oh, that makes sense. Finally we got the faceoffs that Cogs simply could not provide. And we were successfully handing all leadership of the team over to 18 and 19 year olds, so no need for any more vets or Oilers stained by a few years of losing too.



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"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809778 is a reply to message #809764 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 11:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 10:19

Adam wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 10:11

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:50

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44

It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.


It's the Oilers way.

Why did we trade Cogs anyway? Just decided we need to wipe out all memories of a rebuild to start a new one?

This article says he didn't compete hard enough and couldn't win faceoffs.

https://oilersnation.com/2011/07/12/oilers-trade-cogliano/

Not good enough for the dominant winning team Tambo was building in 2011, and years before as he was shopping him every summer.


Also we'd just signed Eric Belanger and how many centers can you have?


Oh, that makes sense. Finally we got the faceoffs that Cogs simply could not provide. And we were successfully handing all leadership of the team over to 18 and 19 year olds, so no need for any more vets or Oilers stained by a few years of losing too.


Cogliano was part of Rebuild #1, and we were well on the way to Rebuild #2, so he really was just an embarrassing reminder of management's earlier failure to deliver.

Of course, he probably wouldn't have feuded with the young players as much as Belanger did...and he couldn't have been as much of a black hole offensively, and even if we HAD had to buy him out like we did Belanger, it would have been cheaper to do so...

Still maybe one of the best moments in the whole Oil Change documentary is how excited the Oilers brass were that Belanger was insisting on an extra year...



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809779 is a reply to message #809758 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:50

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44

It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.


It's the Oilers way.

Why did we trade Cogs anyway? Just decided we need to wipe out all memories of a rebuild to start a new one?

This article says he didn't compete hard enough and couldn't win faceoffs.

https://oilersnation.com/2011/07/12/oilers-trade-cogliano/

Not good enough for the dominant winning team Tambo was building in 2011, and years before as he was shopping him every summer.

They got rid of Cogliano because he saw himself as a top 6 center and would accept nothing else and the Oilers saw him as the 3rd line checking winger that he's been since being traded to the Ducks who turned him into that as soon as the got there and been doing for the last 11 yrs and excelling at.

Gregor and Strudwick were talking about Cogliano last week. Supposedly Gregor is friends with him and so is Strudwick and according to Strudwick. Cogliano would have been out of the NHL a long time ago if he hadn't agreed to the change then he got traded to the Ducks. Take it for what it's worth I guess but a player has to agree to the role you want him in.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809780 is a reply to message #809779 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2300
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Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:16

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:50

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44

It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.


It's the Oilers way.

Why did we trade Cogs anyway? Just decided we need to wipe out all memories of a rebuild to start a new one?

This article says he didn't compete hard enough and couldn't win faceoffs.

https://oilersnation.com/2011/07/12/oilers-trade-cogliano/

Not good enough for the dominant winning team Tambo was building in 2011, and years before as he was shopping him every summer.

They got rid of Cogliano because he saw himself as a top 6 center and would accept nothing else and the Oilers saw him as the 3rd line checking winger that he's been since being traded to the Ducks who turned him into that as soon as the got there and been doing for the last 11 yrs and excelling at.

Gregor and Strudwick were talking about Cogliano last week. Supposedly Gregor is friends with him and so is Strudwick and according to Strudwick. Cogliano would have been out of the NHL a long time ago if he hadn't agreed to the change then he got traded to the Ducks. Take it for what it's worth I guess but a player has to agree to the role you want him in.


These players are kids and sometimes irrational at that age. Why did it change when he was traded? Did a veteran talk to him? Coach? Management? Didn't we do this with Todd Marchant too?

Cogliano has never came across as more than a team player on any franchise he has ever played on. The Oilers dropped the ball at managing this asset.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809782 is a reply to message #809780 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10432
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:16

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:50

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44

It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.


It's the Oilers way.

Why did we trade Cogs anyway? Just decided we need to wipe out all memories of a rebuild to start a new one?

This article says he didn't compete hard enough and couldn't win faceoffs.

https://oilersnation.com/2011/07/12/oilers-trade-cogliano/

Not good enough for the dominant winning team Tambo was building in 2011, and years before as he was shopping him every summer.

They got rid of Cogliano because he saw himself as a top 6 center and would accept nothing else and the Oilers saw him as the 3rd line checking winger that he's been since being traded to the Ducks who turned him into that as soon as the got there and been doing for the last 11 yrs and excelling at.

Gregor and Strudwick were talking about Cogliano last week. Supposedly Gregor is friends with him and so is Strudwick and according to Strudwick. Cogliano would have been out of the NHL a long time ago if he hadn't agreed to the change then he got traded to the Ducks. Take it for what it's worth I guess but a player has to agree to the role you want him in.


These players are kids and sometimes irrational at that age. Why did it change when he was traded? Did a veteran talk to him? Coach? Management? Didn't we do this with Todd Marchant too?

Cogliano has never came across as more than a team player on any franchise he has ever played on. The Oilers dropped the ball at managing this asset.



The rule is, if a player gets better or matures after leaving the Oilers, it means they never would have done it here.

[Updated on: Tue, 05 July 2022 11:57]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809784 is a reply to message #809782 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2300
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Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:50

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:16

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:50

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44

It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.


It's the Oilers way.

Why did we trade Cogs anyway? Just decided we need to wipe out all memories of a rebuild to start a new one?

This article says he didn't compete hard enough and couldn't win faceoffs.

https://oilersnation.com/2011/07/12/oilers-trade-cogliano/

Not good enough for the dominant winning team Tambo was building in 2011, and years before as he was shopping him every summer.

They got rid of Cogliano because he saw himself as a top 6 center and would accept nothing else and the Oilers saw him as the 3rd line checking winger that he's been since being traded to the Ducks who turned him into that as soon as the got there and been doing for the last 11 yrs and excelling at.

Gregor and Strudwick were talking about Cogliano last week. Supposedly Gregor is friends with him and so is Strudwick and according to Strudwick. Cogliano would have been out of the NHL a long time ago if he hadn't agreed to the change then he got traded to the Ducks. Take it for what it's worth I guess but a player has to agree to the role you want him in.


These players are kids and sometimes irrational at that age. Why did it change when he was traded? Did a veteran talk to him? Coach? Management? Didn't we do this with Todd Marchant too?

Cogliano has never came across as more than a team player on any franchise he has ever played on. The Oilers dropped the ball at managing this asset.



The rule is, if a player gets better or matures after leaving the OIlers, it means they never would have done it here.


It's the narrative that has been sold, and I am tired of believing it. If other franchises continually manage their assets and continually make great trades, then why can't we? There is social proof out there that it can be accomplished on a regular basis. Accepting excuses is accepting failure.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809787 is a reply to message #809784 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10432
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:53

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:50

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:16

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:50

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44

It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.


It's the Oilers way.

Why did we trade Cogs anyway? Just decided we need to wipe out all memories of a rebuild to start a new one?

This article says he didn't compete hard enough and couldn't win faceoffs.

https://oilersnation.com/2011/07/12/oilers-trade-cogliano/

Not good enough for the dominant winning team Tambo was building in 2011, and years before as he was shopping him every summer.

They got rid of Cogliano because he saw himself as a top 6 center and would accept nothing else and the Oilers saw him as the 3rd line checking winger that he's been since being traded to the Ducks who turned him into that as soon as the got there and been doing for the last 11 yrs and excelling at.

Gregor and Strudwick were talking about Cogliano last week. Supposedly Gregor is friends with him and so is Strudwick and according to Strudwick. Cogliano would have been out of the NHL a long time ago if he hadn't agreed to the change then he got traded to the Ducks. Take it for what it's worth I guess but a player has to agree to the role you want him in.


These players are kids and sometimes irrational at that age. Why did it change when he was traded? Did a veteran talk to him? Coach? Management? Didn't we do this with Todd Marchant too?

Cogliano has never came across as more than a team player on any franchise he has ever played on. The Oilers dropped the ball at managing this asset.



The rule is, if a player gets better or matures after leaving the OIlers, it means they never would have done it here.


It's the narrative that has been sold, and I am tired of believing it. If other franchises continually manage their assets and continually make great trades, then why can't we? There is social proof out there that it can be accomplished on a regular basis. Accepting excuses is accepting failure.


An owner that values having friends around more than actual results is just a very severe handicap. Not even getting a generational talent and just slightly below generational talent can make up for it. Gonna need a load of luck still.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809788 is a reply to message #809784 ]
Tue, 05 July 2022 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7041
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:53

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:50

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:35

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 11:16

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:50

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 05 July 2022 09:44

It’s funny and sad that we just watched Cogliano win a cup after a useful 1000+ game career, and we are prepared to trade another useful player too early because he’s not scoring like an elite first round pick.

I hope Woodcroft is pushing back on this. He seems like the only one who has a chance at understanding that Puljujarvi has a useful role on good NHL teams, despite the fact that he doesn’t score 25 goals.


It's the Oilers way.

Why did we trade Cogs anyway? Just decided we need to wipe out all memories of a rebuild to start a new one?

This article says he didn't compete hard enough and couldn't win faceoffs.

https://oilersnation.com/2011/07/12/oilers-trade-cogliano/

Not good enough for the dominant winning team Tambo was building in 2011, and years before as he was shopping him every summer.

They got rid of Cogliano because he saw himself as a top 6 center and would accept nothing else and the Oilers saw him as the 3rd line checking winger that he's been since being traded to the Ducks who turned him into that as soon as the got there and been doing for the last 11 yrs and excelling at.

Gregor and Strudwick were talking about Cogliano last week. Supposedly Gregor is friends with him and so is Strudwick and according to Strudwick. Cogliano would have been out of the NHL a long time ago if he hadn't agreed to the change then he got traded to the Ducks. Take it for what it's worth I guess but a player has to agree to the role you want him in.


These players are kids and sometimes irrational at that age. Why did it change when he was traded? Did a veteran talk to him? Coach? Management? Didn't we do this with Todd Marchant too?

Cogliano has never came across as more than a team player on any franchise he has ever played on. The Oilers dropped the ball at managing this asset.



The rule is, if a player gets better or matures after leaving the OIlers, it means they never would have done it here.


It's the narrative that has been sold, and I am tired of believing it. If other franchises continually manage their assets and continually make great trades, then why can't we? There is social proof out there that it can be accomplished on a regular basis. Accepting excuses is accepting failure.


It is literally the stupidest narrative ever - and we're going to see that likely in the future with Puljujarvi if he turns in to a really effective player somewhere else: "Well, he's playing second line now and just comfortable in his skin there, as opposed to seeing himself as a top liner in Edmonton so really, what could the Oilers have done? He'd have never been able to do it here, and we did the player a favour by moving him - that was the wakeup call he needed."

It's BS.

The fact is, you should never really need to tell a player he's seen as a third liner and nothing more. That's a stupid thing to even consider. I want my players on all lines to compete for every second of ice-time, so I make it simply a meritocracy, where if you're the best winger on the team? You have the potential to move up. That's not going to flip every game - if you have a hot streak and the guy on the top line is on a cold streak, I'm not necessarily pushing you up immediately, but over time, if you show you're the better option? Then you'll get more ice time.

If you can't explain to a player why other players are in front of him on the depth chart, then that's a failure on the coaching or management. If you can't explain the importance of two-way play? That's again a failure. If you can't explain why you'd like to play someone on the wing as opposed to center? That, once again, is a failure. The fact is, there just haven't been a lot of guys on the elite teams in the league who they flush and say "we just couldn't reach him about the role that we wanted him to play, so we traded him for virtually nothing, only to see someone else immediately unlock that potential." The Oilers? We've said a lot more than most. Maybe that's one of the reasons our media guys cheer so hard against any player who leaves.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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