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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789047 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Mon, 12 July 2021 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Anyone wanting to get in on a burger bet re: Duncan Keith the Oiler?

Y’all know I’m pro-Duncan the Oiler and I’m lovin’ today.



Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789061 is a reply to message #789047 ]
Mon, 12 July 2021 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 6943
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 20:30

Anyone wanting to get in on a burger bet re: Duncan Keith the Oiler?

Y’all know I’m pro-Duncan the Oiler and I’m lovin’ today.


What's the bet? I'm down.

Although I do feel sorry for you. We're at least expecting the suck from Keith...you're the one he's really going to disappoint.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789048 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Mon, 12 July 2021 20:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10091
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Our 2nd and 3rd next year being tied up with conditions really messes with our ability to get a rental player next deadline. Another silver lining of this trade.


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789050 is a reply to message #789048 ]
Mon, 12 July 2021 20:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 20:33

Our 2nd and 3rd next year being tied up with conditions really messes with our ability to get a rental player next deadline. Another silver lining of this trade.


Pfft, still got that 1st available 😏



Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789051 is a reply to message #789050 ]
Mon, 12 July 2021 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 20:42

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 20:33

Our 2nd and 3rd next year being tied up with conditions really messes with our ability to get a rental player next deadline. Another silver lining of this trade.


Pfft, still got that 1st available 😏


Hehe, yeah, that's it. We'll have to get over the "I've been there, I once traded for Chelios and we didn't win" threshold to get a real rental again. Team better be looking freakin amazing at the deadline or it'll just be another Kulikov.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789052 is a reply to message #789051 ]
Mon, 12 July 2021 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 20:43

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 20:42

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 20:33

Our 2nd and 3rd next year being tied up with conditions really messes with our ability to get a rental player next deadline. Another silver lining of this trade.


Pfft, still got that 1st available 😏


Hehe, yeah, that's it. We'll have to get over the "I've been there, I once traded for Chelios and we didn't win" threshold to get a real rental again. Team better be looking freakin amazing at the deadline or it'll just be another Kulikov.


1st for Ryan Getzlaf at the deadline ... you know your spine just tingled at the thought of it.



Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789123 is a reply to message #789052 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 20:47

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 20:43

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 20:42

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 20:33

Our 2nd and 3rd next year being tied up with conditions really messes with our ability to get a rental player next deadline. Another silver lining of this trade.


Pfft, still got that 1st available 😏


Hehe, yeah, that's it. We'll have to get over the "I've been there, I once traded for Chelios and we didn't win" threshold to get a real rental again. Team better be looking freakin amazing at the deadline or it'll just be another Kulikov.


1st for Ryan Getzlaf at the deadline ... you know your spine just tingled at the thought of it.



Does anyone actually believe that we will achieve the 3 rounds of post season play to unlock the 2nd round pick? It is safe.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789049 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Mon, 12 July 2021 20:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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In case you wonder who Tim Soderland is..
BlackHawks promo video..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C7kmogUihw

Seems like a speedy small guy with some stick handling skill.. Yamomotor size..

[Updated on: Mon, 12 July 2021 20:40]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789054 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Mon, 12 July 2021 21:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Actual silver lining:


PuckPedia @PuckPedia

If Keith were to retire after the 21-22 season:
-#BlackHawks would have a $5.5M cap hit in 22-23 & a $2M cap hit 23-24
-#LetsGoOilers would lose his $5.5M actual cap hit in 22-23 & instead have a $3.4M negative cap hit (cap savings), for a swing of $8.9M


Keith retiring after this season would screw the Hawks pretty bad, and give us a cap benefit.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789124 is a reply to message #789054 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 21:11

Actual silver lining:


PuckPedia @PuckPedia

If Keith were to retire after the 21-22 season:
-#BlackHawks would have a $5.5M cap hit in 22-23 & a $2M cap hit 23-24
-#LetsGoOilers would lose his $5.5M actual cap hit in 22-23 & instead have a $3.4M negative cap hit (cap savings), for a swing of $8.9M


Keith retiring after this season would screw the Hawks pretty bad, and give us a cap benefit.




I wonder if shares in EIG could influence Keith to a early retirement?



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789125 is a reply to message #789124 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:13

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 21:11

Actual silver lining:


PuckPedia @PuckPedia

If Keith were to retire after the 21-22 season:
-#BlackHawks would have a $5.5M cap hit in 22-23 & a $2M cap hit 23-24
-#LetsGoOilers would lose his $5.5M actual cap hit in 22-23 & instead have a $3.4M negative cap hit (cap savings), for a swing of $8.9M


Keith retiring after this season would screw the Hawks pretty bad, and give us a cap benefit.




I wonder if shares in EIG could influence Keith to a early retirement?

When the Oilers win the cup this coming season, he will retire on a high. icon_biggrin



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789132 is a reply to message #789054 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 21:11

Actual silver lining:


PuckPedia @PuckPedia

If Keith were to retire after the 21-22 season:
-#BlackHawks would have a $5.5M cap hit in 22-23 & a $2M cap hit 23-24
-#LetsGoOilers would lose his $5.5M actual cap hit in 22-23 & instead have a $3.4M negative cap hit (cap savings), for a swing of $8.9M


Keith retiring after this season would screw the Hawks pretty bad, and give us a cap benefit.



Maybe Holland is playing 4D chess here. A year of Keith to teach everyone winning, then massive cap savings next summer. And they screw the Hawks.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789134 is a reply to message #789054 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner  is currently offline mightyreasoner
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 21:11

Actual silver lining:


PuckPedia @PuckPedia

If Keith were to retire after the 21-22 season:
-#BlackHawks would have a $5.5M cap hit in 22-23 & a $2M cap hit 23-24
-#LetsGoOilers would lose his $5.5M actual cap hit in 22-23 & instead have a $3.4M negative cap hit (cap savings), for a swing of $8.9M


Keith retiring after this season would screw the Hawks pretty bad, and give us a cap benefit.



I mean, that would be great, but there's no chance of that happening. I think it was Spector (possibly Shannon) who was already lining up the extension at the end of this contract, talking about how by hiring a new agent Keith was signalling his intention to sign another deal after this one expires.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789065 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Mon, 12 July 2021 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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I don't have much more to add that hasn't already been said, other than the fact that I feel like Tippet is also to blame for this, given his penchant for playing veterans over young defencemen and keeping those young defencemen on incredibly short leashes. I don't know how a guy like Jones was supposed to establish himself as an Oiler when every mistake is met with a 6-10 game benching while Kris Russell is allowed to starfish himself around the ice endlessly.

The Oilers making a deal involving a team dumping salary and with that player holding his former team hostage with his NMC, and the Oilers somehow giving up more and no salary retained is the most Oilers thing ever.

This team. Gifted any team's dream of having 2 of the best centers on the planet (and one who could be the best player my kids ever see), and they continue to just shoot themselves in the face.

The Oilers without McDavid on the ice are terrible, and if next year is anything like last year, Nurse will be glued to McDavid. Meaning Keith will play most of his minutes without McDavid and nothing indicates he's going to move the needle on making this team better without McDavid.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789066 is a reply to message #789065 ]
Mon, 12 July 2021 23:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Goose wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 23:43

I don't have much more to add that hasn't already been said, other than the fact that I feel like Tippet is also to blame for this, given his penchant for playing veterans over young defencemen and keeping those young defencemen on incredibly short leashes. I don't know how a guy like Jones was supposed to establish himself as an Oiler when every mistake is met with a 6-10 game benching while Kris Russell is allowed to starfish himself around the ice endlessly.

The Oilers making a deal involving a team dumping salary and with that player holding his former team hostage with his NMC, and the Oilers somehow giving up more and no salary retained is the most Oilers thing ever.

This team. Gifted any team's dream of having 2 of the best centers on the planet (and one who could be the best player my kids ever see), and they continue to just shoot themselves in the face.

The Oilers without McDavid on the ice are terrible, and if next year is anything like last year, Nurse will be glued to McDavid. Meaning Keith will play most of his minutes without McDavid and nothing indicates he's going to move the needle on making this team better without McDavid.


I'll hold judgement on how terrible we are without McDavid until we see the Hyman-Nuge-Yamamoto line in action.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789067 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 00:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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I see Teammate Avry commenting on the deal for the Hockey News. Always knew he wanted to be in sports media. Didn't realize he made it. Congrats buddy.


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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789069 is a reply to message #789067 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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If he wanted to be here and nowhere else, and this is the best you could get from Bowman, you say thanks but no thanks. Hawks would be forced to either protect Keith in the expansion draft or buy him out.

If he’s bought out, you sign him for $1.5m after the expansion draft. Or if he’s protected, and they still want to trade him, then you stick to forcing them to retain half or take back James Neal or Koskinen. And you certainly don’t send them a pick. You get them to send you a pick.

It’s not like we were going to miss out on anything here. There was no rush. This was not a need. Every single card was in Holland’s hands. And he somehow still managed to get bluffed off the pot.

Why did he feel the need to do the Hawks a favour? Or Keith? His commitment should be to the Oilers. Not to the Blackhawks or any other team.

What an epic failure of a GM.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789333 is a reply to message #789067 ]
Fri, 16 July 2021 05:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Teammate Avry  is currently offline Teammate Avry
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NetBOG wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 00:42

I see Teammate Avry commenting on the deal for the Hockey News. Always knew he wanted to be in sports media. Didn't realize he made it. Congrats buddy.


Appreciate it, Net!

Also talked about the deal for Yahoo Sports Canada! Let's just say as you can see in the first minute, we got pretty animated on it lol

https://youtu.be/3BhWolxT7h0



A guy who if you turned into a gumbo is a wild mix of sports podcaster/TV reporter and sports writer.

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789071 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 07:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rutuu  is currently offline Rutuu
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The Canucks, Flames and Kraken all said no to this deal and we say yes?...and add a pick? angryfire


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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789072 is a reply to message #789071 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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I am not worried about losing Jones as I don't see him as any more than a 3rd pairing at best dman. Maybe not even full time. I definitely thought some retained salary should happen. I hope it works out but I am not too thrilled at the moment.


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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789077 is a reply to message #789072 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
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What is kind of sad in the Keith trade for me is in my opinion, it all but signifies to me that the Klefbom must done with the NHL. Take the source for what it's worth but Gregor said yesterday he has been told Klefbom can't even lift his arm above his head yet. If that is the case, that isn't good.


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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789099 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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4 Cups

This guy would have got some retention.. maybe even a 2nd round pick and all of Chicago's air miles!!

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



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789100 is a reply to message #789099 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently online RDOilerfan
Messages: 3836
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I think Lou has dirt on every person in the NHL.


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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789101 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 4073
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Barrie or Larsson?[ 24 vote(s) ]
1.Larsson 12 / 50%
2.Barrie 12 / 50%

So what if the option were Larsson or Barrie on RD for similar contracts.. who would you take?




McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789115 is a reply to message #789101 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
Messages: 726
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Holland, "If Chicago were asked to retain salary, the asking price for Keith would have been significantly higher"

meaning... he didn't even ask?!?!?!?1 What the hell?



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789116 is a reply to message #789115 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10091
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 12:18

Holland, "If Chicago were asked to retain salary, the asking price for Keith would have been significantly higher"

meaning... he didn't even ask?!?!?!?1 What the hell?


And he only says Chicago retaining 50% would have costed more. Hmmm, how about 750k like Holland retained for Lucic? Bowman has retained small amounts of salary in many deals. He retained 750k of Olli Maatta's deal moving him to the Kings. Retained 1M of Saad's deal. Retained 1.125M of Janmark.

But Holland tried to reduce DNB's question about retention to either Chicago retains nothing, or we pay the cost for them to retain 50%.




"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789117 is a reply to message #789116 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
Messages: 726
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

I'm surprised he didn't retain part of Jones' salary.


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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789118 is a reply to message #789116 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 12:21

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 12:18

Holland, "If Chicago were asked to retain salary, the asking price for Keith would have been significantly higher"

meaning... he didn't even ask?!?!?!?1 What the hell?


And he only says Chicago retaining 50% would have costed more. Hmmm, how about 750k like Holland retained for Lucic? Bowman has retained small amounts of salary in many deals. He retained 750k of Olli Maatta's deal moving him to the Kings. Retained 1M of Saad's deal. Retained 1.125M of Janmark.

But Holland tried to reduce DNB's question about retention to either Chicago retains nothing, or we pay the cost for them to retain 50%.




Not to mention there are other creative solutions. You could wash the deal through a third party in order to have another team pay some of the cap hit. It would likely be easier with Keith than with most for a Floor team, because the actual dollars would be low. That third would have been better used to do that. If you could get even 25% retained by Chicago, then wash it through, say, Arizona, and have them take 50% then you're looking at 37.5% of his cap hit, or just under $2.1MM. It's still too much, but at least it would be better.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789119 is a reply to message #789118 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10091
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Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 12:34

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 12:21

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 12:18

Holland, "If Chicago were asked to retain salary, the asking price for Keith would have been significantly higher"

meaning... he didn't even ask?!?!?!?1 What the hell?


And he only says Chicago retaining 50% would have costed more. Hmmm, how about 750k like Holland retained for Lucic? Bowman has retained small amounts of salary in many deals. He retained 750k of Olli Maatta's deal moving him to the Kings. Retained 1M of Saad's deal. Retained 1.125M of Janmark.

But Holland tried to reduce DNB's question about retention to either Chicago retains nothing, or we pay the cost for them to retain 50%.




Not to mention there are other creative solutions. You could wash the deal through a third party in order to have another team pay some of the cap hit. It would likely be easier with Keith than with most for a Floor team, because the actual dollars would be low. That third would have been better used to do that. If you could get even 25% retained by Chicago, then wash it through, say, Arizona, and have them take 50% then you're looking at 37.5% of his cap hit, or just under $2.1MM. It's still too much, but at least it would be better.


Never in a million years would Holland consider any of that. Which is of course a great example of the problem here.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789127 is a reply to message #789119 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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6 Cups

Quote:

Stephan Roget
@StephanRoget

Connor McDavid is gonna ask Duncan Keith what the secret is to winning the Stanley Cup, and Keith is gonna tell him it's efficient cap management, and McDavid is gonna cry.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789128 is a reply to message #789127 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 7705
Registered: December 2003
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6 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:20

Quote:

Stephan Roget
@StephanRoget

Connor McDavid is gonna ask Duncan Keith what the secret is to winning the Stanley Cup, and Keith is gonna tell him it's efficient cap management, and McDavid is gonna cry.


I laughed. Then cried. That tweet told a better story than a 10 episode netflix show.



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789403 is a reply to message #789128 ]
Sat, 17 July 2021 02:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jerekybeef  is currently offline jerekybeef
Messages: 48
Registered: July 2006
Location: Kamloops

No Cups

I am having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that Holland seems to allude to some sort of fore gone conclusion that we had to make a deal. Was he that high on a bankrupt asset that he would do anything to get it? Were the Oilers not in the position of power or can players now somehow demand where they will be traded to like we had no other choice? I’m bewildered. It’s a big cap hot on a once great player that is now long past his prime and significantly declined in recent years. Why wouldn’t you ask for retailed salary when you hold the cards. If Chicago says no then big whoop they keep his salty and his brutal play. Case closed. Truly a stupid move. I hope Connor and Leon demand a to be traded and all Holland gets is 90% retained salary from both their contracts and two 5th rounders. It’s all the Oilers deserve with this bunch of incompetent morons running the show.


"Make the Oilers great again" - Donny Tramp

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789406 is a reply to message #789403 ]
Sat, 17 July 2021 08:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2226
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

jerekybeef wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 02:30

I am having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that Holland seems to allude to some sort of fore gone conclusion that we had to make a deal. Was he that high on a bankrupt asset that he would do anything to get it? Were the Oilers not in the position of power or can players now somehow demand where they will be traded to like we had no other choice? I’m bewildered. It’s a big cap hot on a once great player that is now long past his prime and significantly declined in recent years. Why wouldn’t you ask for retailed salary when you hold the cards. If Chicago says no then big whoop they keep his salty and his brutal play. Case closed. Truly a stupid move. I hope Connor and Leon demand a to be traded and all Holland gets is 90% retained salary from both their contracts and two 5th rounders. It’s all the Oilers deserve with this bunch of incompetent morons running the show.



Haha. Next level anger. I’m with you right up until we trade away 29 and 97 after they demand a trade.

It’s been a week and I’m still shocked and dismayed.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789411 is a reply to message #789406 ]
Sat, 17 July 2021 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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inverno76 wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 08:57

jerekybeef wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 02:30

I am having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that Holland seems to allude to some sort of fore gone conclusion that we had to make a deal. Was he that high on a bankrupt asset that he would do anything to get it? Were the Oilers not in the position of power or can players now somehow demand where they will be traded to like we had no other choice? I’m bewildered. It’s a big cap hot on a once great player that is now long past his prime and significantly declined in recent years. Why wouldn’t you ask for retailed salary when you hold the cards. If Chicago says no then big whoop they keep his salty and his brutal play. Case closed. Truly a stupid move. I hope Connor and Leon demand a to be traded and all Holland gets is 90% retained salary from both their contracts and two 5th rounders. It’s all the Oilers deserve with this bunch of incompetent morons running the show.



Haha. Next level anger. I’m with you right up until we trade away 29 and 97 after they demand a trade.

It’s been a week and I’m still shocked and dismayed.


Just wait until we lose Benson to expansion to avoid exposing Josh Archibald or Zack Kassian, sign Mike Smith to a two-year deal, and break the bank outbidding all comers on Zach Hyman, all while trying to cement the roster before then end of the first week of free agency. Those wines aren't going to drink themselves out at the lake, after all!



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789413 is a reply to message #789411 ]
Sat, 17 July 2021 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 10:51

inverno76 wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 08:57

jerekybeef wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 02:30

I am having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that Holland seems to allude to some sort of fore gone conclusion that we had to make a deal. Was he that high on a bankrupt asset that he would do anything to get it? Were the Oilers not in the position of power or can players now somehow demand where they will be traded to like we had no other choice? I’m bewildered. It’s a big cap hot on a once great player that is now long past his prime and significantly declined in recent years. Why wouldn’t you ask for retailed salary when you hold the cards. If Chicago says no then big whoop they keep his salty and his brutal play. Case closed. Truly a stupid move. I hope Connor and Leon demand a to be traded and all Holland gets is 90% retained salary from both their contracts and two 5th rounders. It’s all the Oilers deserve with this bunch of incompetent morons running the show.



Haha. Next level anger. I’m with you right up until we trade away 29 and 97 after they demand a trade.

It’s been a week and I’m still shocked and dismayed.


Just wait until we lose Benson to expansion to avoid exposing Josh Archibald or Zack Kassian, sign Mike Smith to a two-year deal, and break the bank outbidding all comers on Zach Hyman, all while trying to cement the roster before then end of the first week of free agency. Those wines aren't going to drink themselves out at the lake, after all!



And some people do not like your outward pestilence towards the Oilers management group, but I for one appreciate it. You give a worst case scenario. When the Oilers don’t go full category 5, I walk away like I won something. My head held high.

*We signed Mike Smith to a 2 year year, but at least the 2nd year is able to be buried.
*We only lost Marody. Thankfully we still have Benson.
*Hyman will be good for half his contract and at least we avoided giving Stastny a 4 year deal at the same value.
*Larsson is banged up anyway. Good riddance. I’m sure Samorukov can play his off side.



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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789436 is a reply to message #789411 ]
Sat, 17 July 2021 20:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PoolParty  is currently offline PoolParty
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Adam wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 10:51

inverno76 wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 08:57

jerekybeef wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 02:30

I am having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that Holland seems to allude to some sort of fore gone conclusion that we had to make a deal. Was he that high on a bankrupt asset that he would do anything to get it? Were the Oilers not in the position of power or can players now somehow demand where they will be traded to like we had no other choice? I’m bewildered. It’s a big cap hot on a once great player that is now long past his prime and significantly declined in recent years. Why wouldn’t you ask for retailed salary when you hold the cards. If Chicago says no then big whoop they keep his salty and his brutal play. Case closed. Truly a stupid move. I hope Connor and Leon demand a to be traded and all Holland gets is 90% retained salary from both their contracts and two 5th rounders. It’s all the Oilers deserve with this bunch of incompetent morons running the show.



Haha. Next level anger. I’m with you right up until we trade away 29 and 97 after they demand a trade.

It’s been a week and I’m still shocked and dismayed.


Just wait until we lose Benson to expansion to avoid exposing Josh Archibald or Zack Kassian, sign Mike Smith to a two-year deal, and break the bank outbidding all comers on Zach Hyman, all while trying to cement the roster before then end of the first week of free agency. Those wines aren't going to drink themselves out at the lake, after all!


You're always going off the deep end, how many years experience being an NHL GM you got there buddy?



This forum has turned into a pessimistic cesspool of bitching and whining about the same topics consistently.

#Adam #Kr55 #CrusaderPi #inverno76

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789440 is a reply to message #789436 ]
Sat, 17 July 2021 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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PoolParty wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 20:39

Adam wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 10:51

inverno76 wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 08:57

jerekybeef wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 02:30

I am having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that Holland seems to allude to some sort of fore gone conclusion that we had to make a deal. Was he that high on a bankrupt asset that he would do anything to get it? Were the Oilers not in the position of power or can players now somehow demand where they will be traded to like we had no other choice? I’m bewildered. It’s a big cap hot on a once great player that is now long past his prime and significantly declined in recent years. Why wouldn’t you ask for retailed salary when you hold the cards. If Chicago says no then big whoop they keep his salty and his brutal play. Case closed. Truly a stupid move. I hope Connor and Leon demand a to be traded and all Holland gets is 90% retained salary from both their contracts and two 5th rounders. It’s all the Oilers deserve with this bunch of incompetent morons running the show.



Haha. Next level anger. I’m with you right up until we trade away 29 and 97 after they demand a trade.

It’s been a week and I’m still shocked and dismayed.


Just wait until we lose Benson to expansion to avoid exposing Josh Archibald or Zack Kassian, sign Mike Smith to a two-year deal, and break the bank outbidding all comers on Zach Hyman, all while trying to cement the roster before then end of the first week of free agency. Those wines aren't going to drink themselves out at the lake, after all!


You're always going off the deep end, how many years experience being an NHL GM you got there buddy?



I always love the fans who say “you think you know better than a NHL GM?” If you’ve been a Oilers fan over the last 15 years, you should be able to see that many, many of the posters here would do better than some of the stiffs we’ve had in that chair.

While I would prefer the Oilers didn’t sign someone like me who doesn’t have ANY hockey management experience, I still think I could have done better than Chiarelli and Holland in the McDavid’s time in the league. That’s not even cockiness, because the bar is so damn low.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789129 is a reply to message #789127 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:20

Quote:

Stephan Roget
@StephanRoget

Connor McDavid is gonna ask Duncan Keith what the secret is to winning the Stanley Cup, and Keith is gonna tell him it's efficient cap management, and McDavid is gonna cry.



I wish someone would tell McDavid this. But, McDavid seems like to just go along being hopeful things will work out. I'm sure he's genuinely excited to have Keith on his team, and hopes it'll all work out. Same with Keith. Sure his confidence has him completely sure today he's going to be a dominant 2nd pair D for us.

What actually happens? That was Holland's job to predict.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789130 is a reply to message #789129 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:30

Adam wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:20

Quote:

Stephan Roget
@StephanRoget

Connor McDavid is gonna ask Duncan Keith what the secret is to winning the Stanley Cup, and Keith is gonna tell him it's efficient cap management, and McDavid is gonna cry.



I wish someone would tell McDavid this. But, McDavid seems like to just go along being hopeful things will work out. I'm sure he's genuinely excited to have Keith on his team, and hopes it'll all work out. Same with Keith. Sure his confidence has him completely sure today he's going to be a dominant 2nd pair D for us.

What actually happens? That was Holland's job to predict.

I'd think that was true, but McDavid went against the Oilers and their medical advice to fix his knee because he wasn't simply willing to go along with being hopeful. If he, his agent, and the people in this trust haven't taken a sober look at Oilers management... they will.

That being said, a McDavid trade would open up A LOT of Cap Space.



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789131 is a reply to message #789130 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:36

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:30

Adam wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:20

Quote:

Stephan Roget
@StephanRoget

Connor McDavid is gonna ask Duncan Keith what the secret is to winning the Stanley Cup, and Keith is gonna tell him it's efficient cap management, and McDavid is gonna cry.



I wish someone would tell McDavid this. But, McDavid seems like to just go along being hopeful things will work out. I'm sure he's genuinely excited to have Keith on his team, and hopes it'll all work out. Same with Keith. Sure his confidence has him completely sure today he's going to be a dominant 2nd pair D for us.

What actually happens? That was Holland's job to predict.

I'd think that was true, but McDavid went against the Oilers and their medical advice to fix his knee because he wasn't simply willing to go along with being hopeful. If he, his agent, and the people in this trust haven't taken a sober look at Oilers management... they will.

That being said, a McDavid trade would open up A LOT of Cap Space.


McDavid was probably a fan of the Lucic move too at the time. I don't trust players to run teams in their 40s and 50s, so I sure as heck wouldn't be trusting them to run them in their 20s.

Besides, what can those guys do? Come out and pan the deal? They just can't. That guy is their new teammate. They have to say the right things and make the guy feel welcome.

For what it's worth, I don't hold this against Duncan Keith at all. I wish the guy well, and I hope he has a major bounceback here. It's just not a good bet, and the Oilers pushed in a ton of chips on a bet that is a long-shot but also pays only mediocre return in the best case scenario.

I actually love the conditional pick part from Chicago. That so feels like the icing on the cake. "You know, Kenny, we think this is really giving you the missing ingredient to go from first round sweep to Stanley Cup contender. We're basically gifting you the Stanley Cup, so really, you should upgrade that pick for when Duncan leads you to the promised land." It hearkens back to the extra pick in the Pronger deal, and Lowe telling Burke that he's basically giving him a Cup with that trade.

Maybe the Oilers truly feel that the 'Hawks WERE doing us a solid here...SIGH.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireLowe #FireBobbyNicks #FireKenHolland #FireKeithGretzky

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 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789175 is a reply to message #789131 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 23:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Adam wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 12:43



For what it's worth, I don't hold this against Duncan Keith at all. I wish the guy well, and I hope he has a major bounceback here. It's just not a good bet, and the Oilers pushed in a ton of chips on a bet that is a long-shot but also pays only mediocre return in the best case scenario.

I actually love the conditional pick part from Chicago. That so feels like the icing on the cake. "You know, Kenny, we think this is really giving you the missing ingredient to go from first round sweep to Stanley Cup contender. We're basically gifting you the Stanley Cup, so really, you should upgrade that pick for when Duncan leads you to the promised land." It hearkens back to the extra pick in the Pronger deal, and Lowe telling Burke that he's basically giving him a Cup with that trade.

Maybe the Oilers truly feel that the 'Hawks WERE doing us a solid here...SIGH.


It's not even really about how Keith performs. He could have a decent season here and fit in on a limited role.

It's still a bad deal given that Chicago had to move him, and quickly, and Edmonton held all the cards. Holland talking about the price being significantly higher if they were going to get Chicago to retain salary is asinine. Chicago had zero other options. Their choices were turf the deal and protect Keith, or accept whatever the Oilers were offering. The problem here is that Holland heard that Keith was available, decided he wanted him and was willing to pay basically any price to get him.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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