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 Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824073]
Thu, 01 June 2023 10:52 Go to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/penguins-hire-former-ma ple-leafs-gm-kyle-dubas-as-president-of-hockey-operations/#: ~:text=The%20Pittsburgh%20Penguins%20have%20hired,the%20team %20announced%20on%20Thursday.

I guess if you are sick of being held under the thumb of a guy like Shanahan, then you best ought to become the President of Hockey Operations of your own team. Pittsburgh's near future is not an enviable position for any new hire. Should be interesting.



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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824074 is a reply to message #824073 ]
Thu, 01 June 2023 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 977
Registered: November 2007

No Cups

Wish we would have taken a stab at bringing him into our organization. Creative and forward thinker.


Clean house or bust

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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824075 is a reply to message #824074 ]
Thu, 01 June 2023 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

At the very least they should have tried to interview him. But I guess the org structure is kind of weird so that might have been uncomfortable and obviously pointless. In any event, I'm glad he's still out east.


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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824076 is a reply to message #824075 ]
Thu, 01 June 2023 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10049
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 11:45

At the very least they should have tried to interview him. But I guess the org structure is kind of weird so that might have been uncomfortable and obviously pointless. In any event, I'm glad he's still out east.


We have Staios already. Who was obviously the best choice from an extensive exploration of the hockey world.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824077 is a reply to message #824074 ]
Thu, 01 June 2023 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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3 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 11:31

Wish we would have taken a stab at bringing him into our organization. Creative and forward thinker.

No thanks. All his creative and forward thinking has got the Leafs exactly what? His finger prints are all over the team that do well in the regular season but crap the bed in the playoffs year after year when the hockey gets a little more competitive and harder to play. Defense and goaltending have been the issues for years and defense and goaltending are still the issue after he left. Fun part, his forward thinking has the Leafs with Murray and his 4.68 mill on the cap for this coming season.

I'm actually surprised he took the job. The Pens are a very old team with a lot of aging superstars that want the team to be competitive and try to win before they ride off into the sunset but the team lacks talent in the organization because for years, they have been dumping picks and prospects to try and stay in the winning window. This team screams needing to rebuild but they probably can't for at least another couple of seasons.

[Updated on: Thu, 01 June 2023 12:21]


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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824078 is a reply to message #824077 ]
Thu, 01 June 2023 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10049
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 12:17

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 11:31

Wish we would have taken a stab at bringing him into our organization. Creative and forward thinker.

No thanks. All his creative and forward thinking has got the Leafs exactly what? His finger prints are all over the team that do well in the regular season but crap the bed in the playoffs year after year when the hockey gets a little more competitive and harder to play. Defense and goaltending have been the issues for years and defense and goaltending are still the issue after he left. Fun part, his forward thinking has the Leafs with Murray and his 4.68 mill on the cap for this coming season.

I'm actually surprised he took the job. The Pens are a very old team with a lot of aging superstars that want the team to be competitive and try to win before they ride off into the sunset but the team lacks talent in the organization because for years, they have been dumping picks and prospects to try and stay in the winning window. This team screams needing to rebuild but they probably can't for at least another couple of seasons.


I think Dubas actually did a decent job of finding goalies and D finally with the space he had (there is a TO advantage aspect to this that let him get cheap decent players because they just wanted to play for the Leafs). He also hit the mark with his deadline moves.

His biggest issue is being married to his forward talent IMO. He just too much tied up in too few players. That required all the juggling and creativity to make max use of what was left. He was married to Marner, Matthews, Nylander and JT. 40.5M for 4 guys, usually had about that left for the other 16-17. One day that forward group COULD go further, but so far, I think too many of them have buckled under the pressure too often for their team to really figure things out in the playoffs. Plus the price is about to go up on Matthews and Nylander if they want to keep them.

His unwillingness to trade top guys would have actually worked well here. Don't trade McDrai, fine. Now you have 60M+ to finish off the lineup. If we had proper cap management all this time, plus a willingness to scam LTIR with extended injuries, trade for LTIR space, etc... There are far better lineups we could have iced for the playoffs this last 8 years. But, we keep buying players out, signing plugs to ridiculous deals, are scared to be creative at the deadline to exceed a cap limit playoff lineup.

It's not a crazy high bar to hit, so have a GM that isn't terrible at cap management. I think we know Dubas is not, aside from being married to the top end skill he inherited (and added JT because who could resist making that kind of splash, I'm sure the entire org and owners wanted it). Maybe Staios has a brain though!



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824080 is a reply to message #824078 ]
Thu, 01 June 2023 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3823
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 12:37

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 12:17

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 11:31

Wish we would have taken a stab at bringing him into our organization. Creative and forward thinker.

No thanks. All his creative and forward thinking has got the Leafs exactly what? His finger prints are all over the team that do well in the regular season but crap the bed in the playoffs year after year when the hockey gets a little more competitive and harder to play. Defense and goaltending have been the issues for years and defense and goaltending are still the issue after he left. Fun part, his forward thinking has the Leafs with Murray and his 4.68 mill on the cap for this coming season.

I'm actually surprised he took the job. The Pens are a very old team with a lot of aging superstars that want the team to be competitive and try to win before they ride off into the sunset but the team lacks talent in the organization because for years, they have been dumping picks and prospects to try and stay in the winning window. This team screams needing to rebuild but they probably can't for at least another couple of seasons.


I think Dubas actually did a decent job of finding goalies and D finally with the space he had (there is a TO advantage aspect to this that let him get cheap decent players because they just wanted to play for the Leafs). He also hit the mark with his deadline moves.

His biggest issue is being married to his forward talent IMO. He just too much tied up in too few players. That required all the juggling and creativity to make max use of what was left. He was married to Marner, Matthews, Nylander and JT. 40.5M for 4 guys, usually had about that left for the other 16-17. One day that forward group COULD go further, but so far, I think too many of them have buckled under the pressure too often for their team to really figure things out in the playoffs. Plus the price is about to go up on Matthews and Nylander if they want to keep them.

His unwillingness to trade top guys would have actually worked well here. Don't trade McDrai, fine. Now you have 60M+ to finish off the lineup. If we had proper cap management all this time, plus a willingness to scam LTIR with extended injuries, trade for LTIR space, etc... There are far better lineups we could have iced for the playoffs this last 8 years. But, we keep buying players out, signing plugs to ridiculous deals, are scared to be creative at the deadline to exceed a cap limit playoff lineup.

It's not a crazy high bar to hit, so have a GM that isn't terrible at cap management. I think we know Dubas is not, aside from being married to the top end skill he inherited (and added JT because who could resist making that kind of splash, I'm sure the entire org and owners wanted it). Maybe Staios has a brain though!

I don't think his trades were that great. Getting McCabe and Laferty weren't too bad. At least he got 2 guys that will play for them next year. But he gave up assets to get O'Rielly, Accari, Schenn and Gustafasson all of them are UFA's plus also offloading Engval and Sundin and all it got them was getting out of the first round.

Now I think his roster is flawed (his team he made) so it wouldn't have matter if he made those trades or not but it didn't help them get much farther and the Leafs don't have much to show in the way of players, draft picks or prospects.



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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824082 is a reply to message #824080 ]
Thu, 01 June 2023 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10049
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 14:03

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 12:37

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 12:17

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 11:31

Wish we would have taken a stab at bringing him into our organization. Creative and forward thinker.

No thanks. All his creative and forward thinking has got the Leafs exactly what? His finger prints are all over the team that do well in the regular season but crap the bed in the playoffs year after year when the hockey gets a little more competitive and harder to play. Defense and goaltending have been the issues for years and defense and goaltending are still the issue after he left. Fun part, his forward thinking has the Leafs with Murray and his 4.68 mill on the cap for this coming season.

I'm actually surprised he took the job. The Pens are a very old team with a lot of aging superstars that want the team to be competitive and try to win before they ride off into the sunset but the team lacks talent in the organization because for years, they have been dumping picks and prospects to try and stay in the winning window. This team screams needing to rebuild but they probably can't for at least another couple of seasons.


I think Dubas actually did a decent job of finding goalies and D finally with the space he had (there is a TO advantage aspect to this that let him get cheap decent players because they just wanted to play for the Leafs). He also hit the mark with his deadline moves.

His biggest issue is being married to his forward talent IMO. He just too much tied up in too few players. That required all the juggling and creativity to make max use of what was left. He was married to Marner, Matthews, Nylander and JT. 40.5M for 4 guys, usually had about that left for the other 16-17. One day that forward group COULD go further, but so far, I think too many of them have buckled under the pressure too often for their team to really figure things out in the playoffs. Plus the price is about to go up on Matthews and Nylander if they want to keep them.

His unwillingness to trade top guys would have actually worked well here. Don't trade McDrai, fine. Now you have 60M+ to finish off the lineup. If we had proper cap management all this time, plus a willingness to scam LTIR with extended injuries, trade for LTIR space, etc... There are far better lineups we could have iced for the playoffs this last 8 years. But, we keep buying players out, signing plugs to ridiculous deals, are scared to be creative at the deadline to exceed a cap limit playoff lineup.

It's not a crazy high bar to hit, so have a GM that isn't terrible at cap management. I think we know Dubas is not, aside from being married to the top end skill he inherited (and added JT because who could resist making that kind of splash, I'm sure the entire org and owners wanted it). Maybe Staios has a brain though!

I don't think his trades were that great. Getting McCabe and Laferty weren't too bad. At least he got 2 guys that will play for them next year. But he gave up assets to get O'Rielly, Accari, Schenn and Gustafasson all of them are UFA's plus also offloading Engval and Sundin and all it got them was getting out of the first round.

Now I think his roster is flawed (his team he made) so it wouldn't have matter if he made those trades or not but it didn't help them get much farther and the Leafs don't have much to show in the way of players, draft picks or prospects.


O'Rielly is probably what finally won them a series since before the iphone. If they didn't run into Bobo and this team of destiny, they maybe could have done more, but ultimately would have been up to their 40.5M dudes. Maybe my bar is low, but I think he made some good adds. If we sat out Kane and Yams until playoffs, we could have done some stuff like that :(

Whoever is making big decisions this summer, we need some creative solutions to get Nurse a better D partner, and another playmaker on the wing in the top 6 to replace Yams IMO. Now that McDavid and Drai are enjoying finishing we really need a winger that can hold a puck with his head up for more than 0.25 seconds and make a good play. Kane is a brutal passer, Nuge doesn't like holding a puck for more than a microsecond 5v5, Hyman is only good off the boards and Yams can't do much either passing.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824083 is a reply to message #824080 ]
Thu, 01 June 2023 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2223
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

I like the fact that Dubas is an active GM and he’s not scared to tinker with his lineup even when up against the cap.

Where I would question him would be on his timing of making a roster shake up. Changing out 25% around the deadline to address some team toughness issues should have been an off-season move last summer.

The Leafs successfully played an up tempo game for 3/4 of the season with good team chemistry, only to change it up for the quarter of the season. I’m a firm believer you should only tinker with one or two pieces of the lineup and add your depth pieces for injury insulation.

That being said, I don’t even play EA NHL, and armchair GM from my cell phone. What do I know?



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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824087 is a reply to message #824083 ]
Fri, 02 June 2023 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
Messages: 724
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

They were terribly unlucky in the playoffs too. losing 2 games in OT, one game 3-2 and final 4-2 (4th goal scored with 7 minutes remaining on the PP)

In terms of giving your team a chance, he did that. Short of lacing up himself and scoring a couple of goals, he couldn't have done a lot more.

That being said, I'm absolutely looking at moving Matthews if I'm GM of the Leafs.



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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824088 is a reply to message #824083 ]
Fri, 02 June 2023 11:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3823
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 01 June 2023 19:47

I like the fact that Dubas is an active GM and he’s not scared to tinker with his lineup even when up against the cap.

Where I would question him would be on his timing of making a roster shake up. Changing out 25% around the deadline to address some team toughness issues should have been an off-season move last summer.

The Leafs successfully played an up tempo game for 3/4 of the season with good team chemistry, only to change it up for the quarter of the season. I’m a firm believer you should only tinker with one or two pieces of the lineup and add your depth pieces for injury insulation.

That being said, I don’t even play EA NHL, and armchair GM from my cell phone. What do I know?

I want a GM that is active when it's needed and to make good moves, not just make a whole bunch of moves for the sake of making moves. Dubas made all kinds of moves, shipping out decent young players, throwing around picks and prospects to turn over his roster and again, what did it get them? I think a few of his moves were moves for the sake of making moves and looking to the market that he was doing everything he could. They finally won a series where they were kind of out played a bunch of it. I don't think Vasilivesky was a good as usual and Tampa was missing one of their best dmen in Cernak and Hedman was pretty comprised. I don't think the Leafs win that series without Bunting being so cheap on Cernak.



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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824089 is a reply to message #824073 ]
Fri, 02 June 2023 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve  is currently offline Steve
Messages: 108
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa

No Cups

It's easier being a GM/POHO for an American team. More job security. As long as he doesn't completely run the team in the ground, he probably has a job for a decade or more. Plus he doesn't have to put up with Toronto media. Good move for him personally.


"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

- Calvin

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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824090 is a reply to message #824089 ]
Fri, 02 June 2023 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3823
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Steve wrote on Fri, 02 June 2023 13:30

It's easier being a GM/POHO for an American team. More job security. As long as he doesn't completely run the team in the ground, he probably has a job for a decade or more. Plus he doesn't have to put up with Toronto media. Good move for him personally.

I would agree. I think American teams have an advantage over Canadian teams. I don't there there is an American team where they are the #1 team in the City. So media attention is probably less, expectation is probably less. In a Canadian market, I bet the majority of the population is fans of the hockey team, American city not the same. Some organizations have more favorable tax situations to attract/keep players. Lots of American teams are in more desirable locations to live. You have access to all players. It's a fact that some players won't sign in a Canadian market. Lots of players who have a modified no move have the majority if not all the Canadian teams on their no trade list.

I do think the situation in Pitt is way worse. You have a very old roster that wants to stay competitive while you have their 3 superstars but not a lot of picks or prospects. So he's going to have to find away to inject more youth and speed while getting rid of some older players but he can't really rebuild. Tough job.



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 Re: Dubas the new POHO in Pittsburgh [message #824091 is a reply to message #824089 ]
Fri, 02 June 2023 15:11 Go to previous message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 7698
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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Steve wrote on Fri, 02 June 2023 13:30

It's easier being a GM/POHO for an American team. More job security. As long as he doesn't completely run the team in the ground, he probably has a job for a decade or more. Plus he doesn't have to put up with Toronto media. Good move for him personally.

The alternate view is it's better to be a GM / POHO of a Canadian team. No one actually cares about on ice success in Canada. The fans come and spend their money no matter how bad the team is.

I do agree dealing with Canadian media would suck.



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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