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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823165 is a reply to message #823164 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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Calling it - NHL will fine Pietrangelo and suspend Nurse.


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823166 is a reply to message #823165 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 09:15

Calling it - NHL will fine Pietrangelo and suspend Nurse.


Naw they will both get 1 game. Pietro should get 2 min tho



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823167 is a reply to message #823165 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay  is currently offline Jay
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 09:15

Calling it - NHL will fine Pietrangelo and suspend Nurse.

No, Peter is getting suspended. The only question is if they "even it up" by holding up the absurd instigator call on Nurse.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823172 is a reply to message #823167 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I read a tweet with a quote from Stone saying Hague asked Nurse to fight at the faceoff right before it happened. So if the opposing player challenged Nurse to fight, Nurse skates over to oblige him. When Nurse shows up, Hague drops his gloves first because he wants to fight and throws the first several punches because he was ready and wanted to fight. How is it an instigator to Nurse when the Knight wanted the fight?

I really, really hope the NHL doesn't punish Nurse for the ref making a mistake on the play. It should have been 2 fighting majors between 2 willing combatants. That's it. But this is the NHL. They don't like correcting mistakes, they prefer to double down on their mistakes.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:46]


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823173 is a reply to message #823172 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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So far, it's only been announced that Pietroangelo will have a hearing today regarding his fate. No word yet on Nurse (if any).


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823177 is a reply to message #823173 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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nullterm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 10:59

So far, it's only been announced that Pietroangelo will have a hearing today regarding his fate. No word yet on Nurse (if any).

As of now, per the written rule, Nurse is suspended.

It’s pending review that the instigator suspension could be rescinded, meaning if it’s not rescinded we likely won’t hear anything and Nurse will be out for game 5.



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OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
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Category 4 - Severely Musty
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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823179 is a reply to message #823177 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:34

nullterm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 10:59

So far, it's only been announced that Pietroangelo will have a hearing today regarding his fate. No word yet on Nurse (if any).

As of now, per the written rule, Nurse is suspended.

It’s pending review that the instigator suspension could be rescinded, meaning if it’s not rescinded we likely won’t hear anything and Nurse will be out for game 5.

If Nurse gets suspended for 1 game because that's the rule even though Hague challenged him to fight and threw the first punches, Pietrangelo better get 2 or 3 games. Pietrangelo came over on purpose trying to severely injury Drai. Nurse fought a willing player who wanted the fight to happen. It would be so horrible of the league to give the same penalty. What's the message to other players?



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823181 is a reply to message #823179 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:42

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:34

nullterm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 10:59

So far, it's only been announced that Pietroangelo will have a hearing today regarding his fate. No word yet on Nurse (if any).

As of now, per the written rule, Nurse is suspended.

It’s pending review that the instigator suspension could be rescinded, meaning if it’s not rescinded we likely won’t hear anything and Nurse will be out for game 5.

If Nurse gets suspended for 1 game because that's the rule even though Hague challenged him to fight and threw the first punches, Pietrangelo better get 2 or 3 games. Pietrangelo came over on purpose trying to severely injury Drai. Nurse fought a willing player who wanted the fight to happen. It would be so horrible of the league to give the same penalty. What's the message to other players?

When this doesn't happen, I hope you don't decide that the league not doing what you want is a sign of bias. I agree though, Pietrangelo should be done for the series, but I don't expect that to happen.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823183 is a reply to message #823181 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:42

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:34

nullterm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 10:59

So far, it's only been announced that Pietroangelo will have a hearing today regarding his fate. No word yet on Nurse (if any).

As of now, per the written rule, Nurse is suspended.

It’s pending review that the instigator suspension could be rescinded, meaning if it’s not rescinded we likely won’t hear anything and Nurse will be out for game 5.

If Nurse gets suspended for 1 game because that's the rule even though Hague challenged him to fight and threw the first punches, Pietrangelo better get 2 or 3 games. Pietrangelo came over on purpose trying to severely injury Drai. Nurse fought a willing player who wanted the fight to happen. It would be so horrible of the league to give the same penalty. What's the message to other players?

When this doesn't happen, I hope you don't decide that the league not doing what you want is a sign of bias. I agree though, Pietrangelo should be done for the series, but I don't expect that to happen.

I won't think the league is bias, I know what the league is. It's a bunch of guys who view the "rules" not as set rules but loose guidelines. They can follow the rules if they feel like it but the "rules" can be changed depending on if they like the player or not, how they are feeling that day, guys resumes meaning how many cups he's got, what teams he's played for, if he's won awards, etc and a guys past history. IF a player doesn't have a history but decides, today I am going to break a guys arm, they can do it and probably won't get punished as harshly as if the guy has a reputation of playing at the line.




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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823243 is a reply to message #823181 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 17:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:42

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:34

nullterm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 10:59

So far, it's only been announced that Pietroangelo will have a hearing today regarding his fate. No word yet on Nurse (if any).

As of now, per the written rule, Nurse is suspended.

It’s pending review that the instigator suspension could be rescinded, meaning if it’s not rescinded we likely won’t hear anything and Nurse will be out for game 5.

If Nurse gets suspended for 1 game because that's the rule even though Hague challenged him to fight and threw the first punches, Pietrangelo better get 2 or 3 games. Pietrangelo came over on purpose trying to severely injury Drai. Nurse fought a willing player who wanted the fight to happen. It would be so horrible of the league to give the same penalty. What's the message to other players?

When this doesn't happen, I hope you don't decide that the league not doing what you want is a sign of bias. I agree though, Pietrangelo should be done for the series, but I don't expect that to happen.


I will say, I do think this is the coward's way out for the league and that if they weren't suspending Pietrangelo, it's likely that Nurse does not get a game too.

That said, I also agree with those saying that Nurse shouldn't have put himself in that position. He is a number one d-man by time on ice, and he fought Vegas' #6. If he gets suspended or hurt, then we're way worse for the exchange. I just don't think it was worth the risk. Pietrangelo's actions were stupid, but they were at least on the other team's top player - if he gets suspended and Draisaitl is injured then he may have even won the exchange. You don't see any of the Knights trying to fight Desharnais and I wish Kane and Nurse would pick their dance partners better. If you need to fight, grab Shea Theodore at least and feed him, not Nick Hague, whoever that is.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823245 is a reply to message #823243 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 17:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Adam wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 17:00

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:50

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:42

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:34

nullterm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 10:59

So far, it's only been announced that Pietroangelo will have a hearing today regarding his fate. No word yet on Nurse (if any).

As of now, per the written rule, Nurse is suspended.

It’s pending review that the instigator suspension could be rescinded, meaning if it’s not rescinded we likely won’t hear anything and Nurse will be out for game 5.

If Nurse gets suspended for 1 game because that's the rule even though Hague challenged him to fight and threw the first punches, Pietrangelo better get 2 or 3 games. Pietrangelo came over on purpose trying to severely injury Drai. Nurse fought a willing player who wanted the fight to happen. It would be so horrible of the league to give the same penalty. What's the message to other players?

When this doesn't happen, I hope you don't decide that the league not doing what you want is a sign of bias. I agree though, Pietrangelo should be done for the series, but I don't expect that to happen.


I will say, I do think this is the coward's way out for the league and that if they weren't suspending Pietrangelo, it's likely that Nurse does not get a game too.

That said, I also agree with those saying that Nurse shouldn't have put himself in that position. He is a number one d-man by time on ice, and he fought Vegas' #6. If he gets suspended or hurt, then we're way worse for the exchange. I just don't think it was worth the risk. Pietrangelo's actions were stupid, but they were at least on the other team's top player - if he gets suspended and Draisaitl is injured then he may have even won the exchange. You don't see any of the Knights trying to fight Desharnais and I wish Kane and Nurse would pick their dance partners better. If you need to fight, grab Shea Theodore at least and feed him, not Nick Hague, whoever that is.


Nurse just gets jacked up sometimes, like when he starts chasing a guy way out of position. Love the passion he had for the game, but gets him in bad spots now and then.

All he had to do there was skate near and tell Hague he's up for a fight and they could have squared off like normal.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823247 is a reply to message #823245 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:03

Nurse just gets jacked up sometimes, like when he starts chasing a guy way out of position. Love the passion he had for the game, but gets him in bad spots now and then.


Lots of turmoil still in Darnell's game.

Inside Nurse's mind playing D

https://i.imgflip.com/7lg8vp.gif

Inside Ekholm's mind playing D

https://i.imgflip.com/7lg9wn.gif



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823248 is a reply to message #823245 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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It's not about squaring up for me, it's about fighting him at all. There's too much risk when you're a 23-25 minute guy taking on a 13-15 minute guy. If you get knocked out and can't play the next game or the next week, then you've done nothing but got out a little anger. If you knock him out? So what - he's their worst guy and the next guy in line isn't going to be a huge drop-off likely.

Nurse fighting Theodore or Pietrangelo or Eichel I can wrap my head around. Fighting Hague or Kolesar?! There's no point. Leave those for our own fourth line guys or sixth defenceman. Those are the guys you tell point blank that they're not good enough for you to bother fighting.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823249 is a reply to message #823248 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Oh, also there's this to stoke the rage in here:

Quote:


Sportsnet Stats
@SNstats

During the regular season, there were 2 instigator penalties in the final 5 minutes of the 3rd period.

Neither resulted in a suspension



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823253 is a reply to message #823249 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Adam wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:27

Oh, also there's this to stoke the rage in here:

Quote:


Sportsnet Stats
@SNstats

During the regular season, there were 2 instigator penalties in the final 5 minutes of the 3rd period.

Neither resulted in a suspension



Not rage really, just resentment for an incompetent NHL DOPS and its effects on my home town team.

That info you posted goes back to what I was trying to point out previously, a suspension is not "automatic", according to rule 46.21 its mandatory that every incident is reviewed to validate the original on ice instigator penalty and whether there will be an actual suspension.. all the media saying it was an "automatic" suspension, didn't read the NHL's rule book, its ALL reviewed before a suspension is applied.

So according to your post, in accordance with rule 46.21, it looks like Hockey Ops did "review" the original instigator calls for at least 2 calls during regular season, and rescinded them. and this was when the impact is relatively insignificant to the teams involved (regular season).
Makes their Nurse decision even more questionable.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 17:50]


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Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823254 is a reply to message #823253 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 17:39

Adam wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:27

Oh, also there's this to stoke the rage in here:

Quote:


Sportsnet Stats
@SNstats

During the regular season, there were 2 instigator penalties in the final 5 minutes of the 3rd period.

Neither resulted in a suspension



Not rage really, just resentment for an incompetent NHL DOPS and its effects my home town team.

That info you posted goes back to what I was trying to point out previously, a suspension is not "automatic", according to rule 46.21 its mandatory that every incident is reviewed to validate the original on ice instigator penalty and whether there will be an actual suspension.. all the media saying it was an "automatic" suspension, didn't read the NHL's rule book, its ALL reviewed before a suspension is applied.

And it looks like the Hockey Ops rescinded at least 2 calls during regular season when the impact is relatively insignificant to the teams involved. Makes their Nurse decision even more questionable.



I think we all know that George Parros is a coward, as is Colin Campbell and a bunch of the brass at the NHL offices. It's not an anti-Oilers bias, it's a belief that you can't penalize a team because then if they lose it's not fair.

That ignores the entire part of the equation of who put them in that position. It's no different than with the failure to call penalties on a team who's taken several already. There's a belief you have to even things up before you can call more.

The Nurse thing gave the NHL and Parros a great opportunity to even it up (at least to some extent). My bet is we get two games for Pietrangelo, and the NHL can go to sleep easy, knowing that the Knights aren't AS disadvantaged with the Oilers out a guy too for the first one.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823255 is a reply to message #823254 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Adam wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:49

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 17:39

Adam wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:27

Oh, also there's this to stoke the rage in here:

Quote:


Sportsnet Stats
@SNstats

During the regular season, there were 2 instigator penalties in the final 5 minutes of the 3rd period.

Neither resulted in a suspension



Not rage really, just resentment for an incompetent NHL DOPS and its effects my home town team.

That info you posted goes back to what I was trying to point out previously, a suspension is not "automatic", according to rule 46.21 its mandatory that every incident is reviewed to validate the original on ice instigator penalty and whether there will be an actual suspension.. all the media saying it was an "automatic" suspension, didn't read the NHL's rule book, its ALL reviewed before a suspension is applied.

And it looks like the Hockey Ops rescinded at least 2 calls during regular season when the impact is relatively insignificant to the teams involved. Makes their Nurse decision even more questionable.



I think we all know that George Parros is a coward, as is Colin Campbell and a bunch of the brass at the NHL offices. It's not an anti-Oilers bias, it's a belief that you can't penalize a team because then if they lose it's not fair.

That ignores the entire part of the equation of who put them in that position. It's no different than with the failure to call penalties on a team who's taken several already. There's a belief you have to even things up before you can call more.

The Nurse thing gave the NHL and Parros a great opportunity to even it up (at least to some extent). My bet is we get two games for Pietrangelo, and the NHL can go to sleep easy, knowing that the Knights aren't AS disadvantaged with the Oilers out a guy too for the first one.



I agree that "game/score management" is going on way too much, and its become so consistent a characteristic of NHL referring, that teams even plan game and team roster composition strategies for it, like Sutter's LA teams taking as many interference penalties as they want, knowing the refs can only call a max. of 4 to 6 all game..

Wish Nurse would have just skated to the bench, then DOPS would really be squirming now on what to do with PA.
I think he only gets 1, effectively creates an non-decision for DOPS.. Nurse & PA cancel .. no risk of affecting outcome.. no DOPS scrutiny.. they can all go back to their desks and open up SportsBet on their laptops..

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 18:04]


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Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823256 is a reply to message #823255 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 18:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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So any word on that goon’s hearing? I can’t see how they can credibly come out with a straight face and say that deserves the same or less as what Nurse did (and I still say that’s an absolutely laughable suspension). Any less than 2 games for that would be a joke.


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823257 is a reply to message #823256 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 18:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilergirl94  is currently offline Oilergirl94
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Official: 1 freaking game.

Mike wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 18:05

So any word on that goon’s hearing? I can’t see how they can credibly come out with a straight face and say that deserves the same or less as what Nurse did (and I still say that’s an absolutely laughable suspension). Any less than 2 games for that would be a joke.




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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823180 is a reply to message #823177 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stemhovlichski  is currently offline stemhovlichski
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:34

nullterm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 10:59

So far, it's only been announced that Pietroangelo will have a hearing today regarding his fate. No word yet on Nurse (if any).

As of now, per the written rule, Nurse is suspended.

It’s pending review that the instigator suspension could be rescinded, meaning if it’s not rescinded we likely won’t hear anything and Nurse will be out for game 5.


Here's the rule:

"A player who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at anytime in overtime (see 46.12), shall be suspended for one game, pending a review of the incident.

When the one-game suspension is imposed, the Coach shall be fined $10,000 – a fine that will double for each subsequent incident.

The suspension shall be served unless, upon review of the incident, the Director of Hockey Operations, at his discretion, deems the incident is not related to the score, previous incidents in the game or prior games, retaliatory in nature, “message sending”, etc. The length of suspension will double for each subsequent offense.

No team appeals will be permitted either verbally or in writing regarding the assessment of this automatic suspension as all incidents are reviewed by the Director of Hockey Operations as outlined above."



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823182 is a reply to message #823180 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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stemhovlichski wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:43

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:34

nullterm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 10:59

So far, it's only been announced that Pietroangelo will have a hearing today regarding his fate. No word yet on Nurse (if any).

As of now, per the written rule, Nurse is suspended.

It’s pending review that the instigator suspension could be rescinded, meaning if it’s not rescinded we likely won’t hear anything and Nurse will be out for game 5.


Here's the rule:

"A player who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at anytime in overtime (see 46.12), shall be suspended for one game, pending a review of the incident.

When the one-game suspension is imposed, the Coach shall be fined $10,000 – a fine that will double for each subsequent incident.

The suspension shall be served unless, upon review of the incident, the Director of Hockey Operations, at his discretion, deems the incident is not related to the score, previous incidents in the game or prior games, retaliatory in nature, “message sending”, etc. The length of suspension will double for each subsequent offense.

No team appeals will be permitted either verbally or in writing regarding the assessment of this automatic suspension as all incidents are reviewed by the Director of Hockey Operations as outlined above."

I would hope based on the wording of the rule and the fact Hague himself according to his captain, asked for the fight, the league would overturn it.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823184 is a reply to message #823116 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823185 is a reply to message #823184 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23

NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.


Unreal. Not that I am shocked but unreal. The guy asks to fight multiple times but you give Nurse the instigator then fine the coach on top of it.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823186 is a reply to message #823185 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23

NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.


Unreal. Not that I am shocked but unreal. The guy asks to fight multiple times but you give Nurse the instigator then fine the coach on top of it.

And you thought the rules were a loose guideline.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823187 is a reply to message #823186 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:26

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23

NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.


Unreal. Not that I am shocked but unreal. The guy asks to fight multiple times but you give Nurse the instigator then fine the coach on top of it.

And you thought the rules were a loose guideline.

They are. It all depends on the player.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823193 is a reply to message #823187 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:28

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:26

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23

NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.


Unreal. Not that I am shocked but unreal. The guy asks to fight multiple times but you give Nurse the instigator then fine the coach on top of it.

And you thought the rules were a loose guideline.

They are. It all depends on the player.


I think it all depends on the DoPS and which way the wind is blowing. I believe this is Nurse’s 3rd career suspension and the least worthy of supplemental disciplinary action.

The inconsistency in that department gives me concern about the Pietrangelo hearing. He should get a couple games, but I’m prepared for a 5k fan.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823191 is a reply to message #823186 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:26

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:25

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23

NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.


Unreal. Not that I am shocked but unreal. The guy asks to fight multiple times but you give Nurse the instigator then fine the coach on top of it.

And you thought the rules were a loose guideline.


Mark Stone said Hague asked for that fight on the faceoff. Guess we can blame Nurse for taking the bait so easily, but that's just a painfully weak instigator to hold up. And the application of the suspension is not at all the spirit of why that rule was created, which has an opening left in the rule to not suspend if the instigation was not for the reason of the players team losing, or retribution. That's just a classic fight of 2 willing guys, and Hague wanted it even more than Nurse.



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"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823199 is a reply to message #823191 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndersonRules  is currently offline AndersonRules
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You nailed it, though. Nurse was foolish to take up the challenge - regardless of whether he received the instigator or not. The game was in hand - finish it out; no need to risk injury in a meaningless fight that isn't even going to send a message.

That said - the league is even more foolish for not rescinding the instigator penalty / automatic suspension. Absolute joke. Which when translated means "I am not at all surprised."

I am, however, fairly confident that they let Nurse's unwarranted suspension hold so that Vegas can't complain when Pietrangelo is suspended too (whether for one game or more remains to be seen).



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823188 is a reply to message #823184 ]
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23

NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.



Such BS, and hopefully Pietrangelo gets multiple games (doubt it). Let’s see the Nurse haters now that he’s missing a game. Huge hole in the top 4 and hopefully offset by Pietrangelo being gone.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823189 is a reply to message #823188 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:28

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23

NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.



Such BS, and hopefully Pietrangelo gets multiple games (doubt it). Let’s see the Nurse haters now that he’s missing a game. Huge hole in the top 4 and hopefully offset by Pietrangelo being gone.

If the NHL is going to fag their finger in people's faces and hide behind "rules are rules" then come down on Pietrangelo hard. You can't allow sit there and say you are all about player safety then watch a guy try to break another players arm on purpose and do nothing.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823192 is a reply to message #823189 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:30

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:28

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23

NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.



Such BS, and hopefully Pietrangelo gets multiple games (doubt it). Let’s see the Nurse haters now that he’s missing a game. Huge hole in the top 4 and hopefully offset by Pietrangelo being gone.

If the NHL is going to wag their finger in people's faces and hide behind "rules are rules" then come down on Pietrangelo hard. You can't allow sit there and say you are all about player safety then watch a guy try to break another players arm on purpose and do nothing.

They are doing something. They're suspending him for a game (probably)... because there isn't a rule specifically about tomahawking a star player's arm. It's all up for interpretation.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823190 is a reply to message #823188 ]
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:28

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23

NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.



Such BS, and hopefully Pietrangelo gets multiple games (doubt it). Let’s see the Nurse haters now that he’s missing a game. Huge hole in the top 4 and hopefully offset by Pietrangelo being gone.


Kulak/Ceci we’re a decent pair when Nurse missed time last season…

Broberg’s time to shine



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823194 is a reply to message #823190 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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When do we hear the outcome of Pietrangelo ?


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823196 is a reply to message #823194 ]
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tardigrade81 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:41

When do we hear the outcome of Pietrangelo ?


Hearing Is at 230 PST



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823195 is a reply to message #823190 ]
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:32

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:28

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23

NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.



Such BS, and hopefully Pietrangelo gets multiple games (doubt it). Let’s see the Nurse haters now that he’s missing a game. Huge hole in the top 4 and hopefully offset by Pietrangelo being gone.


Kulak/Ceci we’re a decent pair when Nurse missed time last season…

Broberg’s time to shine


Ceci has regressed, otherwise I’m with you. Nurse wears the brunt of Ceci’s deficiencies this year.

Or at least in my mind.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823197 is a reply to message #823195 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:42

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:32

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:28

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:23

NHL taking the cowards way out:

NHL Player Safety @NHLPlayerSafety
Edmonton’s Darnell Nurse has been automatically suspended for one game and Coach Jay Woodcroft has been fined $10,000 under rule 46.21, Instigating in Final Five Minutes of Regulation.



Such BS, and hopefully Pietrangelo gets multiple games (doubt it). Let’s see the Nurse haters now that he’s missing a game. Huge hole in the top 4 and hopefully offset by Pietrangelo being gone.


Kulak/Ceci we’re a decent pair when Nurse missed time last season…

Broberg’s time to shine


Ceci has regressed, otherwise I’m with you. Nurse wears the brunt of Ceci’s deficiencies this year.

Or at least in my mind.


I was at the game last night. Ceci doesn't look right. He looks like he's laboring when he's on the ice.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823198 is a reply to message #823116 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Rule 46.2

Quote:

46.2 Aggressor

The aggressor in an altercation shall be the player who
continues to throw punches in an attempt to inflict punishment on his
opponent who is in a defenseless position or who is an unwilling
combatant.

A player must be deemed the aggressor when he has clearly won
the fight but he continues throwing and landing punches in a further
attempt to inflict punishment and/or injury on his opponent who is no
longer in a position to defend himself.


A player who is deemed to be the aggressor of an altercation shall
be assessed a major penalty for fighting and a game misconduct.
A player who is deemed to be the aggressor of an altercation will
have this recorded as an aggressor of an altercation for statistical and
suspension purposes.

A player who is deemed to be both the instigator and aggressor of
an altercation shall be assessed an instigating minor penalty, a major
penalty for fighting, a ten-minute misconduct (instigator) and a game
misconduct penalty (aggressor).



I don't think Nurse qualifies as the "aggressor" according to NHL rule 46.2
It also appears by this rule, that during regular play (<55 minutes) a suspension only applies if you're the aggressor, in ADDITION to being the instigator.
This happened in the last 5 minutes, so different rule, but should factor in the decision to suspend Nurse if the spirit of rule 46.2 (who is the Aggressor) holds any merit with Hockey Ops.


Rule 46.11

Quote:

46.11 Instigator -

An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his
actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria:

- distance traveled;

- gloves off first;

- first punch thrown;

- menacing attitude or posture;

- verbal instigation or threats;

- conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident;

- obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season.


A player who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation shall
be assessed an instigating minor penalty, a major penalty for fighting
and a ten-minute misconduct.

If the same player is deemed to be the instigator of a second
altercation in the same game, he shall be assessed an instigating
minor penalty, a major penalty for fighting and a game misconduct.

When a player receives his third instigator penalty in one Regular
season, he is automatically given a game misconduct following that
third violation.

A player who is deemed to be both the instigator and aggressor of
an altercation shall be assessed an instigating minor penalty, a major
penalty for fighting, a ten-minute misconduct (instigator) and a game
misconduct penalty (aggressor).

Any request by a Club to have an instigator penalty reviewed and
rescinded by the League must follow the same procedure for game
misconduct penalties as outlined in 23.2.



This defines the instigator.

- distance traveled; Nurse skates to Hague, but the play was still live.. and even so, what distance qualifies as an instigator? its not like a goalie skating down from the opposite end of the ice..

- gloves off first; Simultaneous Nurse/Hague

- first punch thrown; Hague punches Nurse EIGHT (8) time BEFORE Nurse tosses even ONE (1)
https://i.imgflip.com/7lchnl.gif

- menacing attitude or posture; Indefinitive.. what does this even mean?

- verbal instigation or threats; Indefinitive.. Both were verbally "threatening" each other all game.. nothing definitive. Hague was even threatening other players like Kane..

- conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident; Indefinitive.. speculative at best

Based on this definition, I don't think Nurse should have been assessed the "Instigator" in that situation.. in which case the game suspension that is assessed with the Instigator penalty in the last 5 minutes of a game, which everyone in media is quoting, does not apply (Rule 46.12 below).


Rule 46.12

Quote:

46.12 Instigator in Final Five Minutes of Regulation Time (or Anytime in Overtime) -

A player who is deemed to be the instigator of an
altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at any time
in overtime shall be assessed an instigator minor penalty, a major
penalty for fighting, and a game misconduct penalty, subject to the
conditions outlined in 46.22.


Rule 46.21

Quote:

46.21 Fines and Suspensions – Instigator in Final Five Minutes of
Regulation Time (or Anytime in Overtime)

A player who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5)
minutes of regulation time or at anytime in overtime (see 46.12), shall
be suspended for one game, pending a review of the incident.

When the one-game suspension is imposed, the Coach shall be
fined $10,000 – a fine that will double for each subsequent incident.

The suspension shall be served unless, upon review of the
incident, the Director of Hockey Operations, at his discretion, deems
the incident is not related to the score, previous incidents in the game
or prior games, retaliatory in nature, “message sending”, etc.

The length of suspension will double for each subsequent offense.

This suspension shall be served in addition to any other automatic
suspensions a player may incur for an accumulation of three or more
instigator penalties.

No team appeals will be permitted either verbally or in writing
regarding the assessment of this automatic suspension as ALL
incidents are reviewed
by the Director of Hockey Operations as
outlined above.



Based on this, Nurse's instigator status in that incident WILL BE reviewed by Hockey Ops.. and based on the NHL definition of "instigator", a solid case to rescind it, and no suspension.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 14:14]


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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823200 is a reply to message #823198 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm  is currently offline nullterm
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The league is a joke.

I'm waiting for the double punch line of Pietroangelo just getting a $5k fine.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823201 is a reply to message #823198 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:07

Rule 46.2

Quote:

46.2 Aggressor

The aggressor in an altercation shall be the player who
continues to throw punches in an attempt to inflict punishment on his
opponent who is in a defenseless position or who is an unwilling
combatant.

A player must be deemed the aggressor when he has clearly won
the fight but he continues throwing and landing punches in a further
attempt to inflict punishment and/or injury on his opponent who is no
longer in a position to defend himself.


A player who is deemed to be the aggressor of an altercation shall
be assessed a major penalty for fighting and a game misconduct.
A player who is deemed to be the aggressor of an altercation will
have this recorded as an aggressor of an altercation for statistical and
suspension purposes.

A player who is deemed to be both the instigator and aggressor of
an altercation shall be assessed an instigating minor penalty, a major
penalty for fighting, a ten-minute misconduct (instigator) and a game
misconduct penalty (aggressor).



I don't think Nurse qualifies as the "aggressor" according to NHL rule 46.2
It also seem that during regular play (<55 minutes) a suspension only applies if you're the aggressor, in ADDITION to being the instigator.


Rule 46.11

Quote:

46.11 Instigator -

An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his
actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria:

- distance traveled;

- gloves off first;

- first punch thrown;

- menacing attitude or posture;

- verbal instigation or threats;

- conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident;

- obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season.


A player who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation shall
be assessed an instigating minor penalty, a major penalty for fighting
and a ten-minute misconduct.

If the same player is deemed to be the instigator of a second
altercation in the same game, he shall be assessed an instigating
minor penalty, a major penalty for fighting and a game misconduct.

When a player receives his third instigator penalty in one Regular
season, he is automatically given a game misconduct following that
third violation.

A player who is deemed to be both the instigator and aggressor of
an altercation shall be assessed an instigating minor penalty, a major
penalty for fighting, a ten-minute misconduct (instigator) and a game
misconduct penalty (aggressor).

Any request by a Club to have an instigator penalty reviewed and
rescinded by the League must follow the same procedure for game
misconduct penalties as outlined in 23.2.



This defines the instigator.

- distance traveled; Nurse travels skates to Hague, but the play was still live.. and even so, what distance qualifies as an instigator? its not like a goalie skating down from the opposite end of the ice..

- gloves off first; Simultaneous Nurse/Hague

- first punch thrown; Hague punches Nurse EIGHT (8) time BEFORE Nurse tosses even ONE (1)

- menacing attitude or posture; Indefinitive.. what does this even mean?

- verbal instigation or threats; Indefinitive.. Both were verbally "threatening" each other all game.. nothing definitive. Hague was even threatening other players like Kane..

- conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident; Indefinitive.. speculative at best

Based on this definition, I don't think Nurse should have been assessed the "Instigator" in that situation.. in which case the game suspension that is assessed with the Instigator penalty in the last 5 minutes of a game, which everyone in media is quoting, does not apply (Rule 46.12 below).


Rule 46.12

Quote:

46.12 Instigator in Final Five Minutes of Regulation Time (or Anytime in Overtime) -

A player who is deemed to be the instigator of an
altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at any time
in overtime shall be assessed an instigator minor penalty, a major
penalty for fighting, and a game misconduct penalty, subject to the
conditions outlined in 46.22.


Rule 46.21

Quote:

46.21 Fines and Suspensions – Instigator in Final Five Minutes of
Regulation Time (or Anytime in Overtime)

A player who is deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5)
minutes of regulation time or at anytime in overtime (see 46.12), shall
be suspended for one game, pending a review of the incident.

When the one-game suspension is imposed, the Coach shall be
fined $10,000 – a fine that will double for each subsequent incident.

The suspension shall be served unless, upon review of the
incident, the Director of Hockey Operations, at his discretion, deems
the incident is not related to the score, previous incidents in the game
or prior games, retaliatory in nature, “message sending”, etc.

The length of suspension will double for each subsequent offense.

This suspension shall be served in addition to any other automatic
suspensions a player may incur for an accumulation of three or more
instigator penalties.

No team appeals will be permitted either verbally or in writing
regarding the assessment of this automatic suspension as ALL
incidents are reviewed
by the Director of Hockey Operations as
outlined above.



Based on this, Nurse's instigator status in that incident WILL BE reviewed by Hockey Ops.. and based on the NHL definition of "instigator", a solid case to rescind it, and no suspension.

So based on what you posted from the rules.

Hague took off his gloves first. Now if you want to say they tied, fine but he was first by a half second.

Hague threw the first 8 punches.

Hague challenged Nurse to a fight, maybe 10-15 second earlier. This was admitted by Stone. So Hague would have had the menacing attitude. When you challenge a person to fight, that's a menacing attitude. He also did verbal instigation by asking Nurse to fight.

Conduct relating to the game. The Oilers were beating the crap out of Vegas. It was late in the game. It was 4-1, game was over. Vegas was mad. Hague wanted to fight.

So the only thing Nurse did by the definition of being an instigator was he skated to the guy.



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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823202 is a reply to message #823201 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 3895
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Location: Burnaby, BC

3 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 13:14

So based on what you posted from the rules.

Hague took off his gloves first. Now if you want to say they tied, fine but he was first by a half second.

Hague threw the first 8 punches.

Hague challenged Nurse to a fight, maybe 10-15 second earlier. This was admitted by Stone. So Hague would have had the menacing attitude. When you challenge a person to fight, that's a menacing attitude. He also did verbal instigation by asking Nurse to fight.

Conduct relating to the game. The Oilers were beating the crap out of Vegas. It was late in the game. It was 4-1, game was over. Vegas was mad. Hague wanted to fight.

So the only thing Nurse did by the definition of being an instigator was he skated to the guy.


I didn't know about the quote from Stone.. in which case yes.. it was more Hague as instigator than Nurse.. based on the NHL rules book of course.. which doesn't mean much when Hockey Ops makes decisions.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #4) [message #823203 is a reply to message #823201 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 14:14


So based on what you posted from the rules.

Hague took off his gloves first. Now if you want to say they tied, fine but he was first by a half second.

Hague threw the first 8 punches.

Hague challenged Nurse to a fight, maybe 10-15 second earlier. This was admitted by Stone. So Hague would have had the menacing attitude. When you challenge a person to fight, that's a menacing attitude. He also did verbal instigation by asking Nurse to fight.

Conduct relating to the game. The Oilers were beating the crap out of Vegas. It was late in the game. It was 4-1, game was over. Vegas was mad. Hague wanted to fight.

So the only thing Nurse did by the definition of being an instigator was he skated to the guy.

When you put it this way the suspension seems just. The gloves coming off nearly simultaneously is irrelevant because the fight was inevitable when Nurse skated over to start the fight. The offer to fight 15 seconds over is irrelevant because the fight didn't happen then. Vegas being mad is irrelevant because there isn't a rule against being mad. Hague being a willing combatant is irrelevant because he was smart enough not to start a fight. The fight happened because Nurse skated over. Lesson learned.

Just kidding. No one learns anything.



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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