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 Puljujarvi's Extension [message #808823]
Fri, 10 June 2022 14:20 Go to next message
AndersonRules  is currently offline AndersonRules
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Two different threads have running debates on JP's value to the team, whether he should be signed long-term, and what reasonable/unreasonable dollars would be for him. Let's consolidate ... and ask a simple question:

What do you think would be a “fair” price for JPs next contract - a contract which the player ought to sign, and which would be good for the club?

For me, I’m happy with either of two options.
1 year at about $2.5M, which leaves still one yr of RFA status. This would be a show me deal, leaves room for JP to grow and earn a big next contract. Danger to the team: JP's scoring elevates to match his underlying numbers, and he earns a contract ($5M+) the Oilers will not be able to afford in 2023. Danger to the player: none that I can see.

5+ years at about $4M, banking on some future growth, but reasonably so, and buying 3+ years of UFA status. Danger to the team: JP's scoring remains constant and we're possibly overpaying slightly for a solid-but-unspectacular 2nd-line (or high-end 3rd-line) winger.

What about you? What would you sign him for that doesn’t insult the player, doesn't handcuff the club, and doesn’t bring him right up to UFA status?



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #808837 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Fri, 10 June 2022 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I am not giving JP a long term deal unless the cap hit is so low you can't turn it down. As in hovering around 3 max. Still too many unknowns to be handing out 4 mill. Like I agreed to in the other thread. Right now he's a 3rd liner who can go up in the top 6 for short spurts. If he's on your 3rd line, then your 3rd line is probably pretty good. But in a year or 2, I don't want him still being a 3rd liner and paying him 4 mill. Too much for a 3rd line winger.

I'd probably go a 1 yr deal at 2-2.1 mill. That's almost doubling his salary. I'd be surprised if he much more than that from an arbitrator. If he comes out next year, plays a full season and scores you high teens, then maybe you lock him up longer term for a little more.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809518 is a reply to message #808837 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndersonRules  is currently offline AndersonRules
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 10 June 2022 16:27

I am not giving JP a long term deal unless the cap hit is so low you can't turn it down. As in hovering around 3 max. Still too many unknowns to be handing out 4 mill. Like I agreed to in the other thread. Right now he's a 3rd liner who can go up in the top 6 for short spurts. If he's on your 3rd line, then your 3rd line is probably pretty good. But in a year or 2, I don't want him still being a 3rd liner and paying him 4 mill. Too much for a 3rd line winger.

I'd probably go a 1 yr deal at 2-2.1 mill. That's almost doubling his salary. I'd be surprised if he much more than that from an arbitrator. If he comes out next year, plays a full season and scores you high teens, then maybe you lock him up longer term for a little more.


I appreciate your different perspective. But I would like you to take a look at the stats I cited (not underlying stats, but G-A-Pts stats, and +/-) about where JP slots RIGHT NOW. What do you make of the fact that JP is, by stats, a middle-of-the-road 2nd-line Right Winger in production (and elite in +/-, though I admit I think that's the least valuable/representative of the stats I relate)? Do you still insist that he's just a 3rd-liner? What does that say for all the other schmucks with lesser production, who are playing on one of their team's top two lines?



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #808841 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Fri, 10 June 2022 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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AndersonRules wrote on Fri, 10 June 2022 14:20

Two different threads have running debates on JP's value to the team, whether he should be signed long-term, and what reasonable/unreasonable dollars would be for him. Let's consolidate ... and ask a simple question:

What do you think would be a “fair” price for JPs next contract - a contract which the player ought to sign, and which would be good for the club?

For me, I’m happy with either of two options.
1 year at about $2.5M, which leaves still one yr of RFA status. This would be a show me deal, leaves room for JP to grow and earn a big next contract. Danger to the team: JP's scoring elevates to match his underlying numbers, and he earns a contract ($5M+) the Oilers will not be able to afford in 2023. Danger to the player: none that I can see.

5+ years at about $4M, banking on some future growth, but reasonably so, and buying 3+ years of UFA status. Danger to the team: JP's scoring remains constant and we're possibly overpaying slightly for a solid-but-unspectacular 2nd-line (or high-end 3rd-line) winger.

What about you? What would you sign him for that doesn’t insult the player, doesn't handcuff the club, and doesn’t bring him right up to UFA status?

Give him Kassian money and term and I guarantee he outperforms Zack



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #808850 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Sat, 11 June 2022 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndersonRules  is currently offline AndersonRules
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Another Puljujarvi question: is he CURRENTLY a top-6 winger or a 3rd-line winger? I've heard many (on here, predominantly RD) suggest he's at best a high-end 3rd-line winger with his production as it currently stands. But I think the stats suggest otherwise.

Via NHL.stats ... JP ranked #39 [tied] in goals (14) and #44 points-per-game (0.55) among right-wingers. (His PPG, incidentally, was a couple slots above Yamamoto.) [For curiosity's sake, among left-wingers, who for some reason score more, JP's stats would have had him ranked #58 in PPG and #66 in goals.] And for those who care, JP's +/- of +22 ranked #6 in the league among right-wingers (and tied for #56 overall in the league amongst all players).

While one can at least tentatively agree with those who suggest that JP should have scored more since he played with one of the greatest centers the game has ever seen, the bottom line is that less than 50 right-wingers scored more than half-a-point per game, and only 38 right-wingers scored 15 goals or more [with Yamamoto's 20 tied for #27].

What does that mean? Like it or not, Puljujarvi's numbers AS THEY CURRENTLY STAND establish him as a middle-of-the-road (in terms of production) 2nd-line winger.

These numbers might not be entirely accurate (I'm not sure how complete the website's database is), but sportrac.com lists current contracts by position and value ... the 40th-highest contract for current right-wingers is Joonas Donskoi @ $3.9M for 4 years. 50th-highest is Victor Olofson @ $3.05M for 2 years.

SO ... anyone who thinks that JP is worth LESS than $3M per year, with his production as it currently stands, is (in my estimation) entirely mistaken.

Am I turning into a Puljujarvi apologist? Quite possibly. I'm really concerned that the Oilers are going to cut bait, and I'm utterly convinced it would be a terrible mistake.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #808854 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Sat, 11 June 2022 18:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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In a recent interview Jesse used Finnish saying, “ hampaankolossa”.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU_ii_uWUAAaOZH?format=jpg&name=small

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-12486136 -article

Some translation from Mari Lönnberg, one of the more outspoken twitter users on the ridiculousness that is Spec/Matheson and the career of Jesse Puljujarvi

”...Anything can happen, but I want an NHL contract...It's hard to say anything yet, time will tell where I am going...I don’t know if I’ll come back here anymore or what the management will end up doing...The start of the season was pretty amazing when I think about it now. It started going just fine, but the rest of the season was big time unfinished business for me. There is no denying that I wanted to be better. I should have scored more and... I would have liked to played more. It left me wanting for more... ...I want to see that I can play in a big role for all season. Year after year, I want to be better and that’s where I am going.”


Add: she (Mari) also says that Jesse was quoted in saying it was a long and fun season and there was much to learn. Interview was quite neutral, no sense he doesn’t want to be in Edmonton.

[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2022 07:49]


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #808860 is a reply to message #808854 ]
Sat, 11 June 2022 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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Dammit. I love this kid.

Spec, Old Man Matty, Rishaug, etc can eat a pile of 💩



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #808903 is a reply to message #808860 ]
Mon, 13 June 2022 08:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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The best advice I could give JP and I pray someone in the organization said it to him and he listens. Get yourself a skills coach. He needs to work on his finishing, his shot and his puck handling. That's skills coach stuff.
Many of the best players in the NHL, including McDavid, use skills coaches. If he hasn't, get yourself one. Nothing about his game and what he lacks says to me he uses one. The issues he has now are exactly the same as they were years ago. Nurse has been working with a skills coach for years and if you look at his puck skills from when he started, he's improved a TON to a point that they aren't a big time hinderance like they used to be.

I do like JP, I swear but there is something with his guy and his stubbornness that I think gets in his way. Rumors of him not wanting to go down to the AHL early on, the issue with the whole after his ELC. The things in game that don't seem to be improving. He doesn't need to get bigger and stronger, his puck skills have to improve.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #808909 is a reply to message #808854 ]
Mon, 13 June 2022 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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My one regret about the pandemic is not learning Finnish. Why did I waste so much time? Whyyy?


Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #808923 is a reply to message #808909 ]
Mon, 13 June 2022 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 June 2022 09:06

My one regret about the pandemic is not learning Finnish. Why did I waste so much time? Whyyy?

Quite the laiminlyönnistä if I may say so myself.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809204 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Fri, 17 June 2022 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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Nice little highlight reel of Puljujarvi doing a lot of little things right, which is why I'm much more comfortable than others on here paying him in the $4M range long term even if his production doesn't significantly increase. He just makes so many plays that move the puck in the right direction or stop it from going in the wrong direction. You can really start to see why his underlying numbers are so good regardless of who he's playing with.



https://twitter.com/DimFilipovic/status/1537533904491491328? s=20&t=PflcY7OIjPALEKfnhSujzw

[Updated on: Fri, 17 June 2022 15:54]


Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809225 is a reply to message #809204 ]
Sun, 19 June 2022 08:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm  is currently offline Oscargasm
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Goose wrote on Fri, 17 June 2022 15:50

Nice little highlight reel of Puljujarvi doing a lot of little things right, which is why I'm much more comfortable than others on here paying him in the $4M range long term even if his production doesn't significantly increase. He just makes so many plays that move the puck in the right direction or stop it from going in the wrong direction. You can really start to see why his underlying numbers are so good regardless of who he's playing with.



https://twitter.com/DimFilipovic/status/1537533904491491328? s=20&t=PflcY7OIjPALEKfnhSujzw


Thanks for this! I too am in the sign this guy long term around 4, if you can.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809239 is a reply to message #809225 ]
Mon, 20 June 2022 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I'd be curious to see if JP files for Arbitration and if he does, do the Arbitrators value advanced stats like some do? The people who have no problem giving JP over 4 on a long term, use his advanced stats as a big reason because they think he will pop and be a value deal. So I am just curious if the arbitrator projects things like others are.


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809250 is a reply to message #809239 ]
Mon, 20 June 2022 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 20 June 2022 09:17

I'd be curious to see if JP files for Arbitration and if he does, do the Arbitrators value advanced stats like some do? The people who have no problem giving JP over 4 on a long term, use his advanced stats as a big reason because they think he will pop and be a value deal. So I am just curious if the arbitrator projects things like others are.


I’m certain it would be a factor and his biggest argument case.

I think it might be in both parties best interests to avoid arbitration. Supposedly things get ugly in there, and the relationship is still in “I’m sorry phase”.

If it goes to an arbitration case, I’d be expecting a trade.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809478 is a reply to message #809250 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 08:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Please put the pitch forks away, I am not here to give JP a shot. Like I have said many times, I don't hate him. I like the player, I see value in him and would like to see him on the team. The team should be keeping as many good players you can, not getting rid of them. SO relax fellas.

Do people think that players like McD and Leon value/care about the advanced numbers of JP? I have seen all kinds of numbers that suggest when he is on their line, good things usually happen. But then you hear those 2 rave about Yamo and not JP. You hear them talk about how much they like playing with Yamo but never JP. The coach says they both request Yamo on their lines but not Yamo. So I just wonder if 97 & 29 see other things we don't or don't value the advanced numbers because based on the numbers, JP does good things for them but they don't seem to appreciate that based on what they say.

There is still a TON on twitter and other blogs about JP and a ton of stats out there about all the good he does yet, at least from what I have seen or heard from 97 & 29, that doesn't seem to register with them it just makes me wonder why.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809481 is a reply to message #809478 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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You hear them talk about Yamo because they're asked about Yamo. I've never seen either of them bring up any line-mates, unless they mention almost ll of them, without being prodded about one game or one play by the media. Whenever asked about PJ, they have said the same things as Yamo.
"great guy, really good to play with, makes the ice open up" etc etc.
I'm sure at some point they said the same things about Kassian that they say about Yamo. "He can play up and down the line-up and fit in"
I absolutely think in today's age, they see and care about advanced stats.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 June 2022 10:09]


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809483 is a reply to message #809481 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 10:08

You hear them talk about Yamo because they're asked about Yamo. I've never seen either of them bring up any line-mates, unless they mention almost ll of them, without being prodded about one game or one play by the media. Whenever asked about PJ, they have said the same things as Yamo.
"great guy, really good to play with, makes the ice open up" etc etc.
I'm sure at some point they said the same things about Kassian that they say about Yamo. "He can play up and down the line-up and fit in"
I absolutely think in today's age, they see and care about advanced stats.

If they do care about advanced stats then why don't they ever talk about JP? McD hates talking about himself but he will go on and on about teammates and his linemates. He will bring up plays his linemates do that helped him and they will mention Yamo. I can't recall them ever saying Jp's name glowingly and I don't see McD giving a crap about what Spec to Matty think that would stop him. So just curious.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809484 is a reply to message #809483 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 10:22

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 10:08

You hear them talk about Yamo because they're asked about Yamo. I've never seen either of them bring up any line-mates, unless they mention almost ll of them, without being prodded about one game or one play by the media. Whenever asked about PJ, they have said the same things as Yamo.
"great guy, really good to play with, makes the ice open up" etc etc.
I'm sure at some point they said the same things about Kassian that they say about Yamo. "He can play up and down the line-up and fit in"
I absolutely think in today's age, they see and care about advanced stats.

If they do care about advanced stats then why don't they ever talk about JP? McD hates talking about himself but he will go on and on about teammates and his linemates. He will bring up plays his linemates do that helped him and they will mention Yamo. I can't recall them ever saying Jp's name glowingly and I don't see McD giving a crap about what Spec to Matty think that would stop him. So just curious.


A few points:

1) Because you can't recall teammates speaking glowingly about Puljujarvi doesn't make that true. There have been times this season where players were asked about him - both when he was scoring, at which point they spoke glowingly about him, and when he was struggling to score. There was a day when Spector specifically asked Woodcroft, McDavid and someone else who I can't recall about him because he hadn't been scoring and they all defended him and pointed out that he was getting chances, and that that was the main thing. Your recollection for things that you think might not have happened is not the surest way of judging any issue.

2) What players say in interviews is meaningless 99% of the time. Whether they hate a teammate's guts, or worship the ground he walks on, their answers are going to sound pretty much the same whenever they're asked by media to comment on them. If you're using that to decide how much value a player has? Well, good luck. I'm pretty sure you could find clips of guys saying that MacIntyre and Gazdic added a lot too and raving about what their presence does for the team. It is just air.

3) McDavid is the greatest hockey player in the world. That does not mean that he knows what the team needs to be successful, or that if he wasn't playing he'd be the best coach or manager. He may completely understand and embrace analytics. He may have zero use for it. It doesn't really matter, because either way, he shouldn't be thinking about analytics when on the ice. Where it does matter is in player evaluation and identifying strengths and weaknesses and team building. That's not McDavid's job. Worth noting, that Wayne Gretzky is the best player that ever lived, and he wasn't a great coach. Whether McDavid understands and appreciates what Puljujarvi brings shouldn't be a factor in the GMs deliberations on what to do with #13.

4) Don't worry about all the above. Just as you don't get this stuff, neither does our sports media in this city, or the management of our hockey team. I expect to see Puljujarvi dealt for an underwhelming return, and expect to then see these same hockey media guys actively cheering against him for the remainder of his career. The day he leaves to go back to Europe, even if that's 15 years away, will be a day where Spector celebrates and feels he was finally vindicated on those jerk analytics fans.




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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809491 is a reply to message #809484 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 10:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 10:22

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 10:08

You hear them talk about Yamo because they're asked about Yamo. I've never seen either of them bring up any line-mates, unless they mention almost ll of them, without being prodded about one game or one play by the media. Whenever asked about PJ, they have said the same things as Yamo.
"great guy, really good to play with, makes the ice open up" etc etc.
I'm sure at some point they said the same things about Kassian that they say about Yamo. "He can play up and down the line-up and fit in"
I absolutely think in today's age, they see and care about advanced stats.

If they do care about advanced stats then why don't they ever talk about JP? McD hates talking about himself but he will go on and on about teammates and his linemates. He will bring up plays his linemates do that helped him and they will mention Yamo. I can't recall them ever saying Jp's name glowingly and I don't see McD giving a crap about what Spec to Matty think that would stop him. So just curious.



3) McDavid is the greatest hockey player in the world. That does not mean that he knows what the team needs to be successful, or that if he wasn't playing he'd be the best coach or manager. He may completely understand and embrace analytics. He may have zero use for it. It doesn't really matter, because either way, he shouldn't be thinking about analytics when on the ice. Where it does matter is in player evaluation and identifying strengths and weaknesses and team building. That's not McDavid's job. Worth noting, that Wayne Gretzky is the best player that ever lived, and he wasn't a great coach. Whether McDavid understands and appreciates what Puljujarvi brings shouldn't be a factor in the GMs deliberations on what to do with #13.



I disagree with you on this. What McD and Leon thinks of his linemates DOES factor in on what the GM does. If JP has it in his mind he wants to be in the top 6 or nothing and wants to be paid accordingly and your stars who drive the lines want nothing to do with him on their lines for whatever reason, you can't force them to play with him.

You act like these guys are robots, there not. They are human beings so how they feel impacts them and how they play. A perfect example is Kane. Kane when he was on the Sharks was arguably their best forward and one of their best players. 22 goals, 49 pts in 56 games on a bad team is pretty darn good. But the team didn't want anything to do with him. So if how the players feel about a player shouldn't factor in to the GM's decision, then the GM should have said "Tough luck guys, I am not getting rid of a 30+ goal scorer just because you don't like him. Make it work."



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809494 is a reply to message #809491 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 10:48


I disagree with you on this. What McD and Leon thinks of his linemates DOES factor in on what the GM does. If JP has it in his mind he wants to be in the top 6 or nothing and wants to be paid accordingly and your stars who drive the lines want nothing to do with him on their lines for whatever reason, you can't force them to play with him.

You act like these guys are robots, there not. They are human beings so how they feel impacts them and how they play. A perfect example is Kane. Kane when he was on the Sharks was arguably their best forward and one of their best players. 22 goals, 49 pts in 56 games on a bad team is pretty darn good. But the team didn't want anything to do with him. So if how the players feel about a player shouldn't factor in to the GM's decision, then the GM should have said "Tough luck guys, I am not getting rid of a 30+ goal scorer just because you don't like him. Make it work."


Where have McDavid or Draisaitl, or anyone on the team, ever said that they want nothing to do with Puljujarvi on their line?

You seem really concerned that people think that you don't like Puljujarvi, but you're going out of your way to construct a narrative that just doesn't exist about how Puljujarvi's teammates don't like him. Those 2 things may be related.



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809495 is a reply to message #809494 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Goose wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 12:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 10:48


I disagree with you on this. What McD and Leon thinks of his linemates DOES factor in on what the GM does. If JP has it in his mind he wants to be in the top 6 or nothing and wants to be paid accordingly and your stars who drive the lines want nothing to do with him on their lines for whatever reason, you can't force them to play with him.

You act like these guys are robots, there not. They are human beings so how they feel impacts them and how they play. A perfect example is Kane. Kane when he was on the Sharks was arguably their best forward and one of their best players. 22 goals, 49 pts in 56 games on a bad team is pretty darn good. But the team didn't want anything to do with him. So if how the players feel about a player shouldn't factor in to the GM's decision, then the GM should have said "Tough luck guys, I am not getting rid of a 30+ goal scorer just because you don't like him. Make it work."


Where have McDavid or Draisaitl, or anyone on the team, ever said that they want nothing to do with Puljujarvi on their line?

You seem really concerned that people think that you don't like Puljujarvi, but you're going out of your way to construct a narrative that just doesn't exist about how Puljujarvi's teammates don't like him. Those 2 things may be related.


This.

Also, it doesn't really matter if McDavid sees or doesnt see the value with Puljujarvi. That's not his job. If the Oilers can't replace Puljujarvi's contributions at a similar or lesser rate, then they shouldn't move on from that player. If we just flush him for a draft pick, and fail to acquire someone who adds more, or who costs less, then we're setting ourselves up for failure.

The Oilers management is likely to do that, because that's just what they do. Look at Cogliano, for example. The team decided that he either couldn't be a center or couldn't be a top six forward, and that they thought Eric Belanger filled that role better. So rather than having any discussions about expectations or role, they traded him for a draft pick. He's been a useful player ever since, the draft pick didn't pan out and we had to buy out Eric Belanger. My expectation is that we're going to do something similar for Puljujarvi, and that some game next year he'll get benched for his new team and Mark Spector and others will jump up and down and cheer that see - he never was any good - even as he puts up 35 points and his replacement either flops entirely or costs twice as much for the same production.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809503 is a reply to message #809495 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 12:42

Goose wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 12:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 10:48


I disagree with you on this. What McD and Leon thinks of his linemates DOES factor in on what the GM does. If JP has it in his mind he wants to be in the top 6 or nothing and wants to be paid accordingly and your stars who drive the lines want nothing to do with him on their lines for whatever reason, you can't force them to play with him.

You act like these guys are robots, there not. They are human beings so how they feel impacts them and how they play. A perfect example is Kane. Kane when he was on the Sharks was arguably their best forward and one of their best players. 22 goals, 49 pts in 56 games on a bad team is pretty darn good. But the team didn't want anything to do with him. So if how the players feel about a player shouldn't factor in to the GM's decision, then the GM should have said "Tough luck guys, I am not getting rid of a 30+ goal scorer just because you don't like him. Make it work."


Where have McDavid or Draisaitl, or anyone on the team, ever said that they want nothing to do with Puljujarvi on their line?

You seem really concerned that people think that you don't like Puljujarvi, but you're going out of your way to construct a narrative that just doesn't exist about how Puljujarvi's teammates don't like him. Those 2 things may be related.




The Oilers management is likely to do that, because that's just what they do. Look at Cogliano, for example. The team decided that he either couldn't be a center or couldn't be a top six forward, and that they thought Eric Belanger filled that role better. So rather than having any discussions about expectations or role, they traded him for a draft pick. He's been a useful player ever since, the draft pick didn't pan out and we had to buy out Eric Belanger.



I can't not say something. This is so false. I believe it was Gregor who literally did an interview with Cogliano and wrote an article on Oilersnation a few years ago where Cogliano admitted he felt as an Oiler it was top 6 center or bust for him and refused to accept any role and it wasn't until he was traded that he realized he was wrong. I will try to find the article because I know you will think I am making this up which I am not.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809510 is a reply to message #809503 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 14:29


I can't not say something. This is so false. I believe it was Gregor who literally did an interview with Cogliano and wrote an article on Oilersnation a few years ago where Cogliano admitted he felt as an Oiler it was top 6 center or bust for him and refused to accept any role and it wasn't until he was traded that he realized he was wrong. I will try to find the article because I know you will think I am making this up which I am not.




So we're going around in circles here. Some quick points:

1) Remember above where I said you can't take anything a player says in an interview for granted? Still applies. Players understand the narrative that the media is trying to tell, and sometimes it's just easier to roll with it than to fight against the current.

2) Very quickly after being traded, Cogliano was a third line winger. He had a coach who was able to sit him down and make him understand what was needed and he slotted in where he slotted in. I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't really believe in assigning people to be top or bottom six players, because they should all have the same goals. Out-score the guys on the other team when you're on the ice. If you have other guys doing better at that then you, then that pushes you down the lineup. If you do it better, then maybe you're a top six guy. That should be the easiest conversation.

3) With regards to center, that shouldn't have been a hard discussion either. He was regularly below 40% in faceoff wins. As little importance as there is in faceoffs, if you never win them, then it will impact how the coach can use you.

That the Oilers didn't have the conversation with him and it took another team to have it is a failure on the part of the Oilers. If they had replaced him adequately with either the draft pick or the free agent signing, then maybe you could say they covered the bet so it wasn't bad. Instead, they got worse AND more expensive with Belanger, and the draft pick never played - peaking as a bubble AHL player. Yeah, that's a fail.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809502 is a reply to message #809494 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Goose wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 12:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 June 2022 10:48


I disagree with you on this. What McD and Leon thinks of his linemates DOES factor in on what the GM does. If JP has it in his mind he wants to be in the top 6 or nothing and wants to be paid accordingly and your stars who drive the lines want nothing to do with him on their lines for whatever reason, you can't force them to play with him.

You act like these guys are robots, there not. They are human beings so how they feel impacts them and how they play. A perfect example is Kane. Kane when he was on the Sharks was arguably their best forward and one of their best players. 22 goals, 49 pts in 56 games on a bad team is pretty darn good. But the team didn't want anything to do with him. So if how the players feel about a player shouldn't factor in to the GM's decision, then the GM should have said "Tough luck guys, I am not getting rid of a 30+ goal scorer just because you don't like him. Make it work."


Where have McDavid or Draisaitl, or anyone on the team, ever said that they want nothing to do with Puljujarvi on their line?

You seem really concerned that people think that you don't like Puljujarvi, but you're going out of your way to construct a narrative that just doesn't exist about how Puljujarvi's teammates don't like him. Those 2 things may be related.

All I did was ask a question about the guy. I don't have a guy on the inside of the team, nor do I work for the team. All I have to go by is what I hear. So far every media guy, even the guys who beat the JP drum the hardest, have said the same thing. This isn't Spec or Matty, it's all of them. I hear former players comment on the guy. I wasn't good enough to play hockey at this level. I'd like to think I know some about hockey but I am no arrogant enough to think I know more than guys who are employed in the NHL or played the game. So when former NHLer who watch him says he doesn't do certain things, I believe them. They played, they know what it took to play, I didn't. I watch from the stands or from my living room. I have heard clips from the coaches in multiple interviews. I have heard McD and Leon talk about Yamo glowingly many times. Not just this year but in previous years. That is where I am getting my information from. When I hear and read things from that many people, I assume they all can't be lying. Maybe I am foolish in thinking that not everyone is a liar.


But I am going to keep my mouth shut about the guy from now on because I honestly do not understand why it's so cut and dry with JP and it gets me in trouble. A person either has to think JP is gods gift to hockey or you are wrong and want to run him out of town and hate the guy. There literally seems to be zero middle ground. I genuinely think they should try to retain him because the more good players you have from top to bottom, the better your team will be but I but don't think they should sign him at all cost. I am a person that sees value in his numbers, I respect his numbers and recognize that he does good things. But I also see he has things to work on and that his "numbers" don't 100% tell the story like some people seem to think. I think there are layers to this guy, more so than other players it seems and I am not the type that thinks that if you don't make every move "by the numbers" then you are stupid. But when it comes to JP, it sure seems like that is the way it's gone. You either embrace the numbers completely, believe that he is one of the best Oilers on the team right now, believe he is this can't miss elite player, believe that he helps drive of all people McD or you are an idiot. SO rather than continue to be seen as a JP hating, pot stirrer, I will just bow out of JP conversation because I am never going to be a guy who is a "numbers or bust" guy on any player.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809505 is a reply to message #809502 ]
Fri, 24 June 2022 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt  is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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I feel like you don't actually read other people's posts. Just see someone responded and get mad instantly. You seem to think that people here are out to get you, and you're just voicing a differing opinion, but in fact you're the one who simply can't handle someone else posting their opinion when it's opposite yours.

You don't have to have played the game at the NHL level to know about hockey, or know more than some great hockey players. Being great at it doesn't mean you have a great mind for it and frankly, I really do think some people in here could do an honestly better job than Holland or pistol Pete did. Like... by drafting and not making a single trade...

JP is valuable. He's not a 10Mil a year player, and no one here has said such. What he does is elevate every player and every line he plays on. He disappeared in the playoffs, but it was also disclosed afterwards that he was playing injured. Do we toss him away like we did Eberle after his disappointing post-season? That would be a terrible idea, though, likely what our management will do shortly after buying out Kassian or Keith.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809520 is a reply to message #809502 ]
Sat, 25 June 2022 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Just off the top of my head, Daniel Nugent-Bowman, Jason Strudwick, the crew at OilersNation and Allan Mitchell all speak highly of Jesse Puljujarvi. That is an ex NHL’er and some of the better sports writers in the Oil industry. I realize some of the louder voices out there critique Puljujarvi pretty hard.

I think most of us have accepted Jesse is going to be traded. Most of us think we are going to lose the trade. Most of us think Jesse is a good player with a value contract now and likely going forward. Gregor and Stauffer have prepped us for the trade. Boozin’Bob, the mouth piece for the leaking management team has tried brainwashing his listeners into believing trading the big Finn is necessary, and many have bought into that narrative.

[Updated on: Sat, 25 June 2022 13:29]


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809521 is a reply to message #809520 ]
Sat, 25 June 2022 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks  is currently offline CrudeRemarks
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inverno76 wrote on Sat, 25 June 2022 13:26

Just off the top of my head, Daniel Nugent-Bowman, Jason Strudwick, the crew at OilersNation and Allan Mitchell all speak highly of Jesse Puljujarvi. That is an ex NHL’er and some of the better sports writers in the Oil industry. I realize some of the louder voices out there critique Puljujarvi pretty hard.

I think most of us have accepted Jesse is going to be traded. Most of us think we are going to lose the trade. Most of us think Jesse is a good player with a value contract now and likely going forward. Gregor and Stauffer have prepped us for the trade. Boozin’Bob, the mouth piece for the leaking management team has tried brainwashing his listeners into believing trading the big Finn is necessary, and many have bought into that narrative.

What a statement about Oilers management. The consensus smart folks in the city like JP and wouldn’t trade him. So it’s a foregone conclusion he’s getting traded.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809523 is a reply to message #809502 ]
Sat, 25 June 2022 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndersonRules  is currently offline AndersonRules
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RD - I want to hear your response to this SO BADLY that I'm posting it again ...

I appreciate your different perspective. But I would like you to take a look at the stats I cited (not underlying stats, but 'hard' data like G-A-Pts) about where JP slots RIGHT NOW. What do you make of the fact that JP is, by hard stats, a middle-of-the-road 2nd-line Right Winger in production? Do you still insist that he's just a 3rd-liner? What does that say for all the other schmucks with lesser production, who are playing on one of their team's top two lines?



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809525 is a reply to message #809523 ]
Sat, 25 June 2022 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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One argument I hear is Jesse’s lack of finish. Grade A chances were dying off his stick at a Lucician rate after his return to the lineup. Completely true statement, with the difference being injuries and even when he wasn’t putting up box scores, he was doing other things to tilt the ice in blue and orange’s favour.

Terrible thing is, and not being Oilfans specific, a lot of his naysayers complain about the negative Oilers culture towards management. Meanwhile they’ll torch a kid who is outperforming 80% of the current lineup.

Move Jesse when someone else is pushing for his ice time. Right now he does not have a replacement. Draft good players. Keep good players. Ride out their highs and lows.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809530 is a reply to message #809525 ]
Sun, 26 June 2022 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Sat, 25 June 2022 19:14

One argument I hear is Jesse’s lack of finish. Grade A chances were dying off his stick at a Lucician rate after his return to the lineup. Completely true statement, with the difference being injuries and even when he wasn’t putting up box scores, he was doing other things to tilt the ice in blue and orange’s favour.

Terrible thing is, and not being Oilfans specific, a lot of his naysayers complain about the negative Oilers culture towards management. Meanwhile they’ll torch a kid who is outperforming 80% of the current lineup.

Move Jesse when someone else is pushing for his ice time. Right now he does not have a replacement. Draft good players. Keep good players. Ride out their highs and lows.

Worth noting, he isn’t at Lucic levels of leaving goals on the ice. I wonder with a guy like JP if he needs his vision assessed. Either that or an off-season of one timer practice with Drai



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809642 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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So, guess we're fully into the softening the fanbase up phase with Pulju? Team leaking that they and Pulju are OK to part ways.

Wouldn't be surprised for him to look like Nichushkin in 2-3 years after he polishes up his finishing and gets a little more confidence.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809643 is a reply to message #809642 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 15:11

So, guess we're fully into the softening the fanbase up phase with Pulju? Team leaking that they and Pulju are OK to part ways.

Wouldn't be surprised for him to look like Nichushkin in 2-3 years after he polishes up his finishing and gets a little more confidence.

Nichkushin signed for 850K on a 1 year, then 2.5 mill per for 2 years having his big year this season at 27. Everyone raves about Nichushkin because he score 25 goals making 2.5 mill. IF/when he probably signs for more than twice that amount and put up similar numbers, no one will rave about him anymore.

At the end of the day, does the player not have some say in what happens to him. I would bet that in his close out meetings, his future role would have been discussed by the coach and GM. I would bet that a salary range based on that role would have been floated out there. So if the rumors are true and JP is open to leaving, is it not safe to assume that whatever role they see JP in and whatever salary range they want to pay him, doesn't match what JP envisions himself being and making? I think the perfect role for JP is exactly how they played him this year. Top 9 forward who slide up and down the line up, got some PP time and if he is a fixture on your 3rd line, you probably have yourself a pretty good team. Cup teams seem to have guys just like JP who maybe play a little lower and make a little less than what they would on other teams but they are cool with that because they win a lot. Coleman was that guy for Tampa last year, then goes to Calgary and signs for almost 5 mill. At 1.8 mill he looked unbelievable, at 4.9 mill, not so much. But if in JP's mind, he should be stapled to McD's wing, get exclusive PP time and be paid accordingly, doesn't work so great. If he is saying he'd welcome a change, that tells me he sees himself way higher up in the line up no matter what.

[Updated on: Thu, 30 June 2022 15:45]


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809644 is a reply to message #809643 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 15:40

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 15:11

So, guess we're fully into the softening the fanbase up phase with Pulju? Team leaking that they and Pulju are OK to part ways.

Wouldn't be surprised for him to look like Nichushkin in 2-3 years after he polishes up his finishing and gets a little more confidence.

Nichkushin signed for 850K on a 1 year, then 2.5 mill per for 2 years having his big year this season at 27. Everyone raves about Nichushkin because he score 25 goals making 2.5 mill. IF/when he probably signs for more than twice that amount and put up similar numbers, no one will rave about him anymore.

At the end of the day, does the player not have some say in what happens to him. I would bet that in his close out meetings, his future role would have been discussed by the coach and GM. I would bet that a salary range based on that role would have been floated out there. So if the rumors are true and JP is open to leaving, is it not safe to assume that whatever role they see JP in and whatever salary range they want to pay him, doesn't match what JP envisions himself being and making? I think the perfect role for JP is exactly how they played him this year. Top 9 forward who slide up and down the line up, got some PP time and if he is a fixture on your 3rd line, you probably have yourself a pretty good team. Cup teams seem to have guys just like JP who maybe play a little lower and make a little less than what they would on other teams but they are cool with that because they win a lot. Coleman was that guy for Tampa last year, then goes to Calgary and signs for almost 5 mill. At 1.8 mill he looked unbelievable, at 4.9 mill, not so much. But if in JP's mind, he should be stapled to McD's wing, get exclusive PP time and be paid accordingly, doesn't work so great. If he is saying he'd welcome a change, that tells me he sees himself way higher up in the line up no matter what.


I'm only talking about how Nichushkin was arguably the 2nd most impactful forward on a cup winning team. He was pushing play into the offensive zone non-stop, which he did do already for other teams, but then he added some finish to his game and he dominated.

I want players like that. I am OK to keep trying to push and work with a kid to fine tune his game to become that too if he already is showing he is pushing play the right way like Pulju is, or like Nichushkin did for some years before he broke out this last season.

I guess though the Oilers are not interested in that and will go chasing to try to find that player in their final form, probably at a premium. Or we just don't have that kind of player and try to win other ways.

It is up to this org to make a judgement on what Pulju is capable of long term. We drafted him, we developed him. Zero teams should have a better idea of what he's capable of than the Oilers. So, I guess they are concluding he's topping out in where his career can go and is not worth investing in. So be it. If he breaks out somewhere else, just one more thing to keep bringing up in every thread icon_biggrin

[Updated on: Thu, 30 June 2022 15:51]


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809646 is a reply to message #809644 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 15:48

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 15:40

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 15:11

So, guess we're fully into the softening the fanbase up phase with Pulju? Team leaking that they and Pulju are OK to part ways.

Wouldn't be surprised for him to look like Nichushkin in 2-3 years after he polishes up his finishing and gets a little more confidence.

Nichkushin signed for 850K on a 1 year, then 2.5 mill per for 2 years having his big year this season at 27. Everyone raves about Nichushkin because he score 25 goals making 2.5 mill. IF/when he probably signs for more than twice that amount and put up similar numbers, no one will rave about him anymore.

At the end of the day, does the player not have some say in what happens to him. I would bet that in his close out meetings, his future role would have been discussed by the coach and GM. I would bet that a salary range based on that role would have been floated out there. So if the rumors are true and JP is open to leaving, is it not safe to assume that whatever role they see JP in and whatever salary range they want to pay him, doesn't match what JP envisions himself being and making? I think the perfect role for JP is exactly how they played him this year. Top 9 forward who slide up and down the line up, got some PP time and if he is a fixture on your 3rd line, you probably have yourself a pretty good team. Cup teams seem to have guys just like JP who maybe play a little lower and make a little less than what they would on other teams but they are cool with that because they win a lot. Coleman was that guy for Tampa last year, then goes to Calgary and signs for almost 5 mill. At 1.8 mill he looked unbelievable, at 4.9 mill, not so much. But if in JP's mind, he should be stapled to McD's wing, get exclusive PP time and be paid accordingly, doesn't work so great. If he is saying he'd welcome a change, that tells me he sees himself way higher up in the line up no matter what.


I'm only talking about how Nichushkin was arguably the 2nd most impactful forward on a cup winning team. He was pushing play into the offensive zone non-stop, which he did do already for other teams, but then he added some finish to his game and he dominated.

I want players like that. I am OK to keep trying to push and work with a kid to fine tune his game to become that too if he already is showing he is pushing play the right way like Pulju is, or like Nichushkin did for some years before he broke out this last season.

I guess though the Oilers are not interested in that and will go chasing to try to find that player in their final form, probably at a premium. Or we just don't have that kind of player and try to win other ways.

It is up to this org to make a judgement on what Pulju is capable of long term. We drafted him, we developed him. Zero teams should have a better idea of what he's capable of than the Oilers. So, I guess they are concluding he's topping out in where his career can go and is not worth investing in. So be it. If he breaks out somewhere else, just one more thing to keep bringing up in every thread icon_biggrin

Nichushkin was very impactful. Took him until 27 to get there and while he took a long time to figure it out, he was paid accordingly. He wasn't making 4+ mill the previous seasons while he figured it out. He was making a more manageable 2.5 mill. So if he his break out year didn't happen, you aren't sitting there saying "holy crap we have an expensive bottom 6 forward". You could live with Nichushkin's salary. So if JP is willing to sign a similar contract while he continues to figure it out, fantastic. Then if he just stays how he is which is still a valuable player, you have him paid accordingly and your aren't looking at another overpaid contract.

So I see it as a simple solution. Sign another 1-2 yr deal at 2 something. See what happens and if JP does a Nichkushin, he will get paid. If he doesn't, you aren't stuck with an overpay.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809649 is a reply to message #809646 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndersonRules  is currently offline AndersonRules
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JP now is stronger in every measurable way than Nichushkin was every year before this year. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect JP to sign for 3rd line money when his hard stats are top-6 level (#44 in PPG among RWs) already, and his underlying stats and size and untapped potential.

I also think it would be foolish to let JP go this summer unless you’re getting a better player back. I thought the same when we traded Eberle, and was right. Ditto when we unloaded Cogliano (I was right), Yakupoc (I was wrong), Strome (I was right), Petey (I was right), and Schultz (I was right). I could be wrong with JP, but everything points to him being extremely valuable and worth keeping. I hope we get it right, but I’m not terribly confident.

And frankly, right now I don’t care if JP wants to move on. We hold more leverage in this situation than he does. If we can trade him and win the trade, then by all means. But I’m skeptical …



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809651 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Spector's column today says Puljijarvi wants out and the team is ready to move him.

Expected return is a 3rd (or maybe 2nd) rnd pick.



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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809652 is a reply to message #809651 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 18:23

Spector's column today says Puljijarvi wants out and the team is ready to move him.

Expected return is a 3rd (or maybe 2nd) rnd pick.

There’s a Finnish interview out there that completely contradicts this. But it’s easier to lose the trade if you have a built in excuse. Oilers mgmt is the worst.



You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809685 is a reply to message #809651 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose  is currently offline Goose
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 17:23

Spector's column today says Puljijarvi wants out and the team is ready to move him.

Expected return is a 3rd (or maybe 2nd) rnd pick.


Here's the actual quote from the article:

Quote:

As he was three seasons ago, Puljujarvi is ready to move on for a fresh start elsewhere, sources have confirmed. The Oilers are ready to oblige, and are speaking with at least four teams in an attempt to push the return as high as possible.

Puljujarvi’s agent, Markus Lehto, declined to comment but did not dispute the above characterization of his 24-year-old client.


What a total hack. "Sources say" icon_rolleyes

And then Puljujarvi's agent declined to comment, "but did not dispute the above". Well he didn't endorse it either did he Mark? You could have just left it at, "declined to comment". Then when challenged on twitter, Spector said he was just reporting "facts".

I hate the Oilers media so much.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/article/once-again-puljujarvi-wants -out-and-oilers-are-ready-to-accommodate-with-a-trade/



Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809686 is a reply to message #809685 ]
Fri, 01 July 2022 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Goose wrote on Fri, 01 July 2022 17:29

NetBOG wrote on Thu, 30 June 2022 17:23

Spector's column today says Puljijarvi wants out and the team is ready to move him.

Expected return is a 3rd (or maybe 2nd) rnd pick.


Here's the actual quote from the article:

Quote:

As he was three seasons ago, Puljujarvi is ready to move on for a fresh start elsewhere, sources have confirmed. The Oilers are ready to oblige, and are speaking with at least four teams in an attempt to push the return as high as possible.

Puljujarvi’s agent, Markus Lehto, declined to comment but did not dispute the above characterization of his 24-year-old client.


What a total hack. "Sources say" icon_rolleyes

And then Puljujarvi's agent declined to comment, "but did not dispute the above". Well he didn't endorse it either did he Mark? You could have just left it at, "declined to comment". Then when challenged on twitter, Spector said he was just reporting "facts".

I hate the Oilers media so much.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/article/once-again-puljujarvi-wants -out-and-oilers-are-ready-to-accommodate-with-a-trade/


Another doozy from the article

"Puljujarvi is deemed “a play killer” inside the Oilers dressing room, it is believed, where two of the best centremen in the world have not been enough to turn Puljujarvi into a legitimate Top 6 winger in the NHL. The puck dies on his stick in the offensive zone too often to continue to saddle Connor McDavid or Leon Draisaitl with such a winger on a regular basis."

The "it is believed" allows this characterisation to be presented even though mainly is just coming from Spector's personal belief. Like any player would say this to him hehe.

And if pulju kills plays what does that make guys like Kassian? Guys that not only kill plays non stop but also play zero defense.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Puljujarvi's Extension [message #809653 is a reply to message #808823 ]
Thu, 30 June 2022 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
PlusOne  is currently offline PlusOne
Messages: 1548
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

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JP is the latest but perhaps most perfect example of why I fear the Oilers with not win a cup any time soon.
I am not saying this because I think JP is elite. My fandom of him is well known but even those of us at the top of the fan club are often frustrated by his untapped potential.

Taking the emotion out of my thoughts on JP, and purely looking at this from an asset management point of view, is more what I am referring to.

JP;
- scored at a rate that us justified by his place in the lineup, salary and age.
- by every measure he was one of the better forwards defensively.
- is cost controlled

Those three basic points are proven quantifiably. His draft position, birth place, first language, favorite pizza play no part in that point of view.

The Oilers, at most points in the season, needed;
- secondary scoring
- better defensive play

JP checked those boxes

Going into this offseason it is well known the Oilers are tight to the cap.
- even with a modest raise, JP's numbers would still make him a fair price for his contribution.

If the rumors are true, and JP is traded for a pick, it would open up anther need that the team needs to fill with limited ability to do so.
- The pick the would receive is not likely to contribute for multiple season
- the cap savings wouldn't be enough to sign a replacement in FA
- I am not convinced that there is a player in the system ready to step in to his spot opening night.

That last one is likely the best chance but hoping an unproven young player can play an important role is a big gamble.

Back to my original statement regarding zero cup wins. This kind of asset management is not how a team takes the next step to being a true contender.
Every single time a useful piece is abandoned by the team it opens up a new hole in the roster. Good teams are finding ways in the offseason to negotiate the cap while keeping the best pieces in place.

There area number of obvious holes in the roster. There are spots that would be nice to improve. Moving JP for a draft pick will do nothing but create one more problem to solve while receiving back no way to do so.

The day the trade is announced, if it is for a pick, will be the day I will once again cast my vote for the Oilers to be a playoff team but not a true contender. This is what they have been, on paper, most years since McDavid.
They will continue to be just that until they learn the simplest of asset management lessons.



Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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