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 Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823557]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:30 Go to next message
OilFans is currently offline OilFans
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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823560 is a reply to message #823557 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Yeah... time to care a lot less about the NHL. Extra bitter about this series. Go Seattle I guess.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823561 is a reply to message #823560 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tardigrade81 is currently offline tardigrade81
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Gutted

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823564 is a reply to message #823561 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leia is currently offline Leia
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Registered: May 2003
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They looked so tired in the last period, so heavy legged and hands of stone. It wasn't to be again. We know it was the best chance in years, but we are not far away. That's sport there can only be 1 winner and it's a tough take, but a few more tweaks and we go again in October.

Take me home, country road
to the place where I belong
to Alberta, to see the Oilers
take me home, country road

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823562 is a reply to message #823560 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
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See ya in September! Oilers dummied themselves two games in a row with second period flops and that’s all she wrote.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823563 is a reply to message #823557 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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Aidin f’in Hill? Really?

This is so disheartening. Last year I didn’t think we had much of a shot against the Avs. Didn’t like losing, but I expected it. This year? Who of the teams left could we not beat? I really thought we had a shot at the Cup.

This sucks.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823566 is a reply to message #823563 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Mike wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 22:39

Aidin f’in Hill? Really?

This is so disheartening. Last year I didn’t think we had much of a shot against the Avs. Didn’t like losing, but I expected it. This year? Who of the teams left could we not beat? I really thought we had a shot at the Cup.

This sucks.


2nd year in a row we are all over a goalie, they get hurt and the replacement just owns us. But, we had plenty of trash moments to defeat ourselves too of course.

Campbell probably needed to start at some point. Skinner pulled in every loss this series? (checked, just the last 3) And 2 wins. I think Woody just read his hand wrong. I think everyone could see Skinner just looking defeated multiple times this series and left in to let in even more goals. Hope he learns from it, and hope Campbell has the off-season of his life too. Who knows, maybe we have a real 1A/1B next year.

[Updated on: Sun, 14 May 2023 22:51]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823567 is a reply to message #823566 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 21:46

Mike wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 22:39

Aidin f’in Hill? Really?

This is so disheartening. Last year I didn’t think we had much of a shot against the Avs. Didn’t like losing, but I expected it. This year? Who of the teams left could we not beat? I really thought we had a shot at the Cup.

This sucks.


2nd year in a row we are all over a goalie, they get hurt and the replacement just owns us. But, we had plenty of trash moments to defeat ourselves too of course.

Campbell probably needed to start at some point. Skinner pulled in every loss this series? And 2 wins. I think Woody just read his hand wrong. I think everyone could see Skinner just defeated multiple times this series and left in to let in even more goals. Hope he learns from it, and hope Campbell has the off-season of his life too. Who knows, maybe we have a real 1A/1B next year.


Skinner (edit) was never a regular season iron man, so Woody deciding to ride him every playoff game was a ticking time bomb. Woody out coached himself between the pipes.

[Updated on: Sun, 14 May 2023 23:03]

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823571 is a reply to message #823567 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster is currently offline HamBlaster
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I blame most of this failure to end this season on Campbell. That guy was signed to be the guy that took this team from pretenders to a legitimate favourite, and even if he'd been marginally worse than what we'd expected... he probably would have given us what we needed.

No on predicted that the goalie that we invested BIG time in, was going to have a catastrophically bad year. That's on him. He better figure it out next year, because he forced this team to have to start a rookie in his place. Enjoy your millions from this season Jacko... you really earned them.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823572 is a reply to message #823571 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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HamBlaster wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 23:00

I blame most of this failure to end this season on Campbell. That guy was signed to be the guy that took this team from pretenders to a legitimate favourite, and even if he'd been marginally worse than what we'd expected... he probably would have given us what we needed.

No on predicted that the goalie that we invested BIG time in, was going to have a catastrophically bad year. That's on him. He better figure it out next year, because he forced this team to have to start a rookie in his place. Enjoy your millions from this season Jacko... you really earned them.


hey, he did have a .960 or better in the playoffs :)

Obviously his fault for making Woody doubt him, but he took every opportunity to show Woody he could be a potential option in the post-season.

Oh well though, I'm sure, given enough time, we could have had some nice meltdowns in front of him to ensure his confidence was broken again. It's the Oilers after all.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823574 is a reply to message #823571 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
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HamBlaster wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 22:00

I blame most of this failure to end this season on Campbell. That guy was signed to be the guy that took this team from pretenders to a legitimate favourite, and even if he'd been marginally worse than what we'd expected... he probably would have given us what we needed.

No on predicted that the goalie that we invested BIG time in, was going to have a catastrophically bad year. That's on him. He better figure it out next year, because he forced this team to have to start a rookie in his place. Enjoy your millions from this season Jacko... you really earned them.


We lucked out on Skinner as much as we busted on Campbell in the regular season.

But playoffs Skinner either couldn’t keep up playing every game, or he didn’t have the next level.

Woody should have rested Skinner atleast one game per series.

But I’d hang this one on our general lack of 5v5 scoring and compete from the whole team. When the whistles were put away, we fell behind a full throttle Vegas team.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823568 is a reply to message #823563 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jerekybeef is currently offline jerekybeef
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Lot of negatives from the entire series. Nurse is not a good defender, to my eye at least. Doesn’t take the the man and gets caught flat footed. We gave them too much room in front of the net to bury second chances. Our secondary forwards pulled the biggest Houdini act of all time. This highlights our lack of actual effective depth. Lots of guys skating fast and doing nothing. No one ever in front of the net, everyone on the perimeter. Not hard nosed enough, fly-bys, ineffective sticks. Nuge invisible after the regular season, McDavid contained (I think he hurt his hip against LA), Draisitl played well but I think hurting from the slash. Woodcroft did not adjust beyond yanking Skinner multiple times. Didn’t adjust the game plan. Relied on the PP and the top 2 to drag this group through. Not a good strategy. Hope Holland can figure this out because what a waste of a generational talent plowing ahead with the same crap every year. Almost as bad as Boston.

"Make the Oilers great again" - Donny Tramp

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823565 is a reply to message #823557 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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OilFans wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 21:30

.




That was not a missed call .. 4 of those guys saw it and refused to call that 4 min. high stick on Ekholm.. No explanation for that, Freaking NHL refs are the worst in the world.. I've never seen an IIHF ref miss a blatant high stick that bad either at the senior or junior levels.. not even CHL refs..

Well nice chatting with you guys.. at least its the last NHL I'll have to watch for the summer.. 😊👍🏻

Ciao for now !

Maybe the draft.. when we pick 2 in round 3 !

Lot of decisions to be made over the summer.. made harder by this collapse in the last series.. can't really see Yamo back.. so -3.1M in cap..

[Updated on: Sun, 14 May 2023 22:46]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823573 is a reply to message #823565 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster is currently offline HamBlaster
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They need a better second pairing than Nurse and Ceci, without a doubt, and the also need a better goaltender than Jacko the Joker.

Campbell played fine in the playoffs, but his regular season was sooooooooooo bad. I would be finding any and all takers for that guy this offseason.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823569 is a reply to message #823557 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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So, thinking back. Is there a reason why Woodcroft just refused to try anyone else in the top 6 to try to find a way to keep a 2 line attack? Foegele or Kostin maybe? Kane was off all playoffs. Hyman likely hurt with something, off as well, not able to play the boards like we're used to. But the only 2 options were 2 lines with a bunch of painfully struggling wingers in Hyman, Kane, Nuge and Yams, or we just load up a McDrai line and play the crap out of them. He had zero other ideas? He went back to 2 lines, but that predictably terrible Nuge-Drai-yams line was so costly tonight. Should have just stuck with a 1 line team if he was going to do that.

[Updated on: Sun, 14 May 2023 23:00]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823570 is a reply to message #823569 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 22:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oiltec is currently offline oiltec
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Looks a lot like the Woodman was out-coached, Skinner was out-goalied and don't even get me started on Nurse. It's times like this that I recall Conner's infamous own words, it is what it is

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823575 is a reply to message #823569 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kungpaobenji27 is currently offline kungpaobenji27
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 23:55

So, thinking back. Is there a reason why Woodcroft just refused to try anyone else in the top 6 to try to find a way to keep a 2 line attack? Foegele or Kostin maybe? Kane was off all playoffs. Hyman likely hurt with something, off as well, not able to play the boards like we're used to. But the only 2 options were 2 lines with a bunch of painfully struggling wingers in Hyman, Kane, Nuge and Yams, or we just load up a McDrai line and play the crap out of them. He had zero other ideas? He went back to 2 lines, but that predictably terrible Nuge-Drai-yams line was so costly tonight. Should have just stuck with a 1 line team if he was going to do that.


Yeah yeah it was regular season only but there was a period when Nuge was even producing at ES with Janmark and Kostin as his wingers while Foegele on 2nd line alongside Draisaitl....case in point that Edmonton at Dallas game I attended in December.

^As you alluded to, I wish Woody would've paired some of his bottom 6 wingers in the top 6 with Kane/Hyman playing hurt. My exact thoughts yesterday though was too busy to verbalize that.

As much as I hate to say it, Eichel has evolved into a two way machine as his playmaking and backchecking came in clutch. He can also unlike Matthews chip in on the PK as well.

Hate this Vegas squad as many in the league dislike them too similar to the 07-13 Canucks teams. Further this team goes in the playoffs however...then less likely they'll be able to repeat this next season as I'm not that impressed by them.

I think a guy like JP could've been effective in this series but the fit wasn't there at his cap hit...ok please don't laugh at me lol

[Updated on: Sun, 14 May 2023 23:25]

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823578 is a reply to message #823569 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 23:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 21:55

So, thinking back. Is there a reason why Woodcroft just refused to try anyone else in the top 6 to try to find a way to keep a 2 line attack? Foegele or Kostin maybe? Kane was off all playoffs. Hyman likely hurt with something, off as well, not able to play the boards like we're used to. But the only 2 options were 2 lines with a bunch of painfully struggling wingers in Hyman, Kane, Nuge and Yams, or we just load up a McDrai line and play the crap out of them. He had zero other ideas? He went back to 2 lines, but that predictably terrible Nuge-Drai-yams line was so costly tonight. Should have just stuck with a 1 line team if he was going to do that.


I can't understand why 56 got all that ice time.. he was invisible all playoffs.. too slow, too weak, too short, and not a sniper.. and didn't even seem to have any tenacity in him this series, not sure what he brings anymore ..

McLeod has elite wheels, but skates around in big sweeping circles refusing to engage physically with a bump or a hit, most times his excursions accomplishing little.. loses guys in his own end.. he could be so much better if he actually decided to battle for pucks. or pick up the open man and stick with him..

Nurse.. well he's another story.. for the guy that is supposed to be one of the team's physical players.. he doesn't seem to actually be that strong, he gets pushed off the puck consistently in cycles, losing puck battles in his own end that end up as a team fire drill. His defensive instincts are pretty weak.. bad defensive decisions, bad pinches, losing open men in front of his net, the defenseman CPU is more like a 8 bit than 64 bit.. he needs to get stronger, and study more, but he's 28, not sure if its too late to learn the position now.. his coaches must tell him, he must go over film.. what's getting in the way of him improving his defensive play over all these years.. ego?

Compare how Nurse plays defense and how Ekholm plays defense.. night and day.. and most of it is the decision making.

Anyway.. hope he gets gets stronger/smarter. same with Mcleod .

Buchard turned a corner playing with Ekholm.. Bouchard is way better than before 14 arrived.. he just needs to get a bit stronger, work on the skating, lengthen out the stride a bit for more top end speed..

Interesting to see how banged up Kane was.. and if Hyman and RNH were also banged up.. also if Ceci was all year.. Janmark could have had a broken foot from all those shot blocks.. might explain some tail offs..

[Updated on: Sun, 14 May 2023 23:32]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823576 is a reply to message #823557 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
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nullterm wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 21:52

That second period of our own stupidity may have cost us the series and playoff.

Incredible amount of team laziness leading to errors and penalties.


Literally copy and paste from last game, just ignore the penalties part.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823577 is a reply to message #823557 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Same old problem for the Oilers. In their six losses they gave up 5, 4, 5, 6, 3, and 4 goals. Even with the two ENs I remember, that's simply not a recipe for success.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823579 is a reply to message #823577 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 23:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tardigrade81 is currently offline tardigrade81
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Still think if Campbell started we push this to game 7. It is what it is. Hopefully with a year of experience under his belt Skinner will be much better in the playoffs next year and give us a better chance at winning

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823580 is a reply to message #823579 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 23:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
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tardigrade81 wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 22:28

Still think if Campbell started we push this to game 7. It is what it is. Hopefully with a year of experience under his belt Skinner will be much better in the playoffs next year and give us a better chance at winning



Yeah Skinner was not No.1 material this playoffs.. he was getting beat on a lot of clear shots you'd hope get saved .. But goalies are voo-doo.. Bobrovski was written off for a while .. now he's a No.1 with game saver ability.. you'll never know when these guys finally get it together.. or when they'll lose it..

Maybe Campbell gets better over the summer, and Skinner is still only a rookie.

[Updated on: Sun, 14 May 2023 23:38]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823582 is a reply to message #823580 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 22:34

tardigrade81 wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 22:28

Still think if Campbell started we push this to game 7. It is what it is. Hopefully with a year of experience under his belt Skinner will be much better in the playoffs next year and give us a better chance at winning



Yeah Skinner was not No.1 material this playoffs.. he was getting beat on a lot of clear shots you'd hope get saved .. But goalies are voo-doo.. Bobrovski was written off for a while .. now he's a No.1 with game saver ability.. you'll never know when these guys finally get it together.. or when they'll lose it..

Maybe Campbell gets better over the summer, and Skinner is still only a rookie.


Skinner, Broberg, Desharnais all rookies. Another season under their belt and I'm sure the trio will have improved next seasons.

That said, this season hinged alot on their rookie backs. It worked in the regular season, but fell short in the playoffs.

At the very least, Woodcroft should have started Campbell to rest Skinner once or twice a series.

Now both Skinner and Campbell can start duking it out again in October for the starter job.

[Updated on: Mon, 15 May 2023 00:09]

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823581 is a reply to message #823577 ]
Sun, 14 May 2023 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 23:25

Same old problem for the Oilers. In their six losses they gave up 5, 4, 5, 6, 3, and 4 goals. Even with the two ENs I remember, that's simply not a recipe for success.


Small dif this year, we actually got the majority of chances in our games. We were completely dominated by the Avs last season and didn't really deserve at all to win. We likely would have won the chances battle vs Dallas or Seattle too. Canes (assuming they make it) would have been a different story likely.

Big errors like stupid undisciplined penalties, taking a fight in a win with 20 seconds left that left poor Broberg to be picked on by the refs, lazy high sticks, and unfortunate goaltended did us in still. With an assist from the refs and league offices. This one burns quite a bit more than last year.

[Updated on: Sun, 14 May 2023 23:48]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823583 is a reply to message #823577 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Sun, 14 May 2023 23:25

Same old problem for the Oilers. In their six losses they gave up 5, 4, 5, 6, 3, and 4 goals. Even with the two ENs I remember, that's simply not a recipe for success.


I feel for Stuart Skinner. That's a really tough way to end what was a great rookie season. In the end he was pulled four times in 12 playoff games. That's really, really bad. He struggled in the AHL playoffs last year too so maybe it shouldn't have come as a big surprise - and really, the surprise was that he was in the position to not only be the starting goalie in the playoffs, but to be so entrenched as the starter that even his third pull of the playoffs didn't cause the coach to go to the other guy.

To me, that's all on Ken Holland. He didn't bother getting a real goalie the prior two years - one of which we cratered early along with anyone else potentially considered a favourite in the "Western" Conference - gifting the Montreal Canadiens a trip to the Finals. Then again the same tandem last year - which saw us get through two round despite goalies that allowed 55 goals in just 16 games. Three goalie pulls last year too.

So then we decide to go get the goat of the Toronto Maple Leafs most recent flameout - Jack Campbell. He just completely failed to give the team anything resembling solid goaltending all year - so can we blame Woodcroft for putting the season in the hands of the goalie that did the most towards getting us here? The crazy thing is that it looks settled that this is going to be the tandem for the next several years yet...

On top of that, we made no attempt to upgrade the top six. There was no creative cap solutions to buy us a little more space. There wasn't even really an investigation as to whether there was another deal out there - while Hextall failed to generate interest in JVR in Philly, Holland had already hung up his hat for the year. My mind is still blown by the fact he originally wanted his press conference to be an hour before the trade deadline.

Ekholm was a heck of a pickup. I'll give him a lot of credit for that one, but he created more cap space by moving Puljujarvi and Barrie and then he didn't really even try to use it. Ultimately it cost us. The top six was weak already as Yamamoto is more ideally a top-9 guy, and then an injury or two and all of a sudden we're paper thin and relying entirely on 97 and 29 to win it for us.

We outplayed them most of the last two games, so a bounce or two goes our way and we are the ones celebrating tonight. When you have the best player in the game, you can overcome a lot of team flaws, and even some weaker than expected coaching - as I didn't think Woodcroft did well in adjusting to what Vegas was giving them. They all collapsed low to try to block everything from getting through, and the Oilers just didn't find a way to deal with that.

But ultimately, goaltending was the difference in this series and our hopes should NEVER have rested on the shoulders of a rookie netminder.

The scariest thing is that we may only have one more shot at it with this group. Draisaitl can be extended in Summer 2024, and if he won't re-sign, then I don't know that we have any choice but to trade him. And the season after McDavid faces the same decision.

Oh yeah, and we're going in to those critical last seasons with Campbell & Skinner as our goalie tandem for both...not to mention the architect of this disaster, Ken Holland, still steering the ship.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823586 is a reply to message #823583 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 01:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rutuu is currently offline Rutuu
Messages: 144
Registered: March 2011
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Considering the emotion of the night, this is a great summary.

Does screwing up a generational talents prime years take away a few cup rings?...because Holland is fueling the debate. Even with Kane falling into our laps because no other team in the NHL wanted to sign the guy, we're still in this position.

Bouchard's next deal feels like the next mistake that seals this goalie tandem in stone. How much are we paying him?

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823588 is a reply to message #823586 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 02:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC
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Rutuu wrote on Mon, 15 May 2023 00:05

Considering the emotion of the night, this is a great summary.

Does screwing up a generational talents prime years take away a few cup rings?...because Holland is fueling the debate. Even with Kane falling into our laps because no other team in the NHL wanted to sign the guy, we're still in this position.

Bouchard's next deal feels like the next mistake that seals this goalie tandem in stone. How much are we paying him?


Not very much, or not very long. Bouchard has only looked good when playing with Keith and Ekholm. I’m not committing the bank to him until he’s proven he can stand on his own. But I’m also not tossing him aside either like with Petry.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823584 is a reply to message #823557 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007
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It sure sucks to go out when you’re a favourite.

We didn’t deserve this series. I think at our best we would beat Vegas at their best. We never had our best. Our coaching and goaltending really sunk us here. Best opportunity in years. This is hard.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823585 is a reply to message #823557 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 00:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
K.McC#24 is currently offline K.McC#24
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Well, thats it for this spring, where at the end of the regular season, the Oilers arguably iced the best team they've had in over 30 years. All for nothing.

So many things went wrong for the Oilers in this series, but I still favored them in game 6. Didn't happen. Just couldn't find any consistent play in the series or the playoffs.

You have to do several things right and get breaks to get to the conference finals and beyond and the Oilers didn't do enough right or get many breaks.

- When 97 and 29 were nullified pretty well at different points, they got very little from their top 6 wingers 5v5. Nuge, Kane, Hyman, Yamamoto. I thought guys like Kostin did quite a bit with very limited ice time, but Woodcroft never elevated anyone else into the top 6, or dropped some skill down with bottom 6 guys who were going. The Oilers I think probably move on from KY.
- The back end had few answers for Vegas. Nurse and Ceci were abysmal. Nurse should be a stud, but the brain isn't there alongside the physical gifts. Too bad that contract is such a significant miss. He should be somewhat embarrassed that Ekholm had to be ridden like a rented mule. Ceci is just in over his head. In the d zone, I don't know what was up systemically, but not sure a high puck flip to the neutral zone constitutes an effective breakout. Vegas had the edge in terms of competence on the back end.
- In the last couple games, you can point to moments where a key stop would have made a big difference. Vegas got significantly better goaltending, from a guy who had to have planets align to be on an NHL club. Starting Skinner again in game 6 backfired on Woody.
- I also think that the Oilers weren't prepared for game 1 of the series, and didn't have a systemic answer 5v5 for Vegas, or the Vegas puck pressure. Woodcroft wears some of that.

In the end, Vegas deserved this series as a team more than the Oilers. There were crappy things that broke against the Oilers, but it came down to Vegas doing the right things way more consistently. Vegas can get fecked, though. I don't care what happens in the playoffs going forward, otherwise.

These guys aren't going to ever win playoff hardware until they defend better as a team, stop more pucks, and respond systemically earlier in series. Pretty disappointing, but I can't say I'm not used to it.
Have a good summer, everyone.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823587 is a reply to message #823557 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
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We have not won more than 8 playoff games in a season this far into the McDavid/Draisaitl era and that sucks.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823589 is a reply to message #823587 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 05:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay is currently offline Jay
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Location: Edmonton
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The series turned on the slash on 29. Draisaitl wasn't close to the same player since that moment and the confluence of events since then with dops and the refs managing games/players emotions as well as the Oilers obviously sensing that they were being jobbed. Credit to Pietrangelo I guess. He won them the series with that play.

Woodcroft deserves a lot of criticism. The decision to continually go back to Skinner was mind boggling. Playoff Skinner was worse than regular season Campbell - the one who apparently made Skinner the unquestionable starter. The idea that Skinner couldn't possibly not start every game without destroying his confidence or ability to come back later in a series/playoff if needed was wild. His inability to create 2 decent lines around 29 and 97 was painful to watch.

Nurse is nowhere close to being a top pairing dman. His gap control and ability to defend/make good decisions are terrible. He doesn't have a chance against the other teams best players. He's probably a #4 but his contract is so absurd that I'm not sure how you fix the defence - Hope the cap goes up a lot I guess.

RNH is RNH. Everyone seems to love him but this is who he is. If they are expecting him to be a difference maker in games that matter they are asking for disappointment.

"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823590 is a reply to message #823589 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 05:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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Location: Kensington, PEI
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Well, on the bright side, I get to catch up on a bunch of missed sleep now.

Once again it comes down to short spells of inattention that cost us. 1:29 in game 5, and that 5 mins or so in game 6.

I do think that we were the better team, but Vegas just wanted it more. Refs didn't help things by choosing not to call blatant infractions, but blaming the refs is a losers excuse, so whatever.

Will be an interesting off-season. I wonder where the Bouchard number will land.

[Updated on: Mon, 15 May 2023 08:41]

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823601 is a reply to message #823589 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ragnarok73 is currently offline Ragnarok73
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Jay wrote on Mon, 15 May 2023 05:05

The series turned on the slash on 29. Draisaitl wasn't close to the same player since that moment and the confluence of events since then with dops and the refs managing games/players emotions as well as the Oilers obviously sensing that they were being jobbed. Credit to Pietrangelo I guess. He won them the series with that play.

Woodcroft deserves a lot of criticism. The decision to continually go back to Skinner was mind boggling. Playoff Skinner was worse than regular season Campbell - the one who apparently made Skinner the unquestionable starter. The idea that Skinner couldn't possibly not start every game without destroying his confidence or ability to come back later in a series/playoff if needed was wild. His inability to create 2 decent lines around 29 and 97 was painful to watch.

Nurse is nowhere close to being a top pairing dman. His gap control and ability to defend/make good decisions are terrible. He doesn't have a chance against the other teams best players. He's probably a #4 but his contract is so absurd that I'm not sure how you fix the defence - Hope the cap goes up a lot I guess.

RNH is RNH. Everyone seems to love him but this is who he is. If they are expecting him to be a difference maker in games that matter they are asking for disappointment.

I would have to disagree with your first point: the series turned when the Knights realized that they just had to play the refs right and stay out of the box. The Oil would have won this series if they could outplay the Knights 5-on-5, but they didn't have the ability. This lack of ability stems from their weaker blue-line group. Look at the 2nd and 3rd goals the Knights scored last night as a microcosm of the Oil's D play all series: poor coverage created by inferior d-men (re: Ceci on both) who don't know how to play in their own end of the ice. I don't fully blame Skinner, because you don't need to have a super-star goalie if the D group in front of him is at least solid in their own zone. With guys like VInnie and Codi, it was a freaking tire fire in their zone too many times to count, as the Knights were able to keep them hemmed in and create opportunities at will.

I don't know what Holland can do to fix this glaring issue, but we need to hope that he can somehow do it, because the team is not going to win a Cup with their blueline as it is. Maybe Brobs will mature into a solid d-man, at which point Ken may only have to find one really good defenceman to shore up their pairings going into next season. Or maybe Klef makes some sort of miraculous recovery and returns to being the guy the Oil leaned on before he went on LTIR.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823602 is a reply to message #823601 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nullterm is currently offline nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC
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Ragnarok73 wrote on Mon, 15 May 2023 10:16

Jay wrote on Mon, 15 May 2023 05:05

The series turned on the slash on 29. Draisaitl wasn't close to the same player since that moment and the confluence of events since then with dops and the refs managing games/players emotions as well as the Oilers obviously sensing that they were being jobbed. Credit to Pietrangelo I guess. He won them the series with that play.

Woodcroft deserves a lot of criticism. The decision to continually go back to Skinner was mind boggling. Playoff Skinner was worse than regular season Campbell - the one who apparently made Skinner the unquestionable starter. The idea that Skinner couldn't possibly not start every game without destroying his confidence or ability to come back later in a series/playoff if needed was wild. His inability to create 2 decent lines around 29 and 97 was painful to watch.

Nurse is nowhere close to being a top pairing dman. His gap control and ability to defend/make good decisions are terrible. He doesn't have a chance against the other teams best players. He's probably a #4 but his contract is so absurd that I'm not sure how you fix the defence - Hope the cap goes up a lot I guess.

RNH is RNH. Everyone seems to love him but this is who he is. If they are expecting him to be a difference maker in games that matter they are asking for disappointment.

I would have to disagree with your first point: the series turned when the Knights realized that they just had to play the refs right and stay out of the box. The Oil would have won this series if they could outplay the Knights 5-on-5, but they didn't have the ability. This lack of ability stems from their weaker blue-line group. Look at the 2nd and 3rd goals the Knights scored last night as a microcosm of the Oil's D play all series: poor coverage created by inferior d-men (re: Ceci on both) who don't know how to play in their own end of the ice. I don't fully blame Skinner, because you don't need to have a super-star goalie if the D group in front of him is at least solid in their own zone. With guys like VInnie and Codi, it was a freaking tire fire in their zone too many times to count, as the Knights were able to keep them hemmed in and create opportunities at will.

I don't know what Holland can do to fix this glaring issue, but we need to hope that he can somehow do it, because the team is not going to win a Cup with their blueline as it is. Maybe Brobs will mature into a solid d-man, at which point Ken may only have to find one really good defenceman to shore up their pairings going into next season. Or maybe Klef makes some sort of miraculous recovery and returns to being the guy the Oil leaned on before he went on LTIR.


My cousin (Flames fan) observed that the Knights figured out how to take away the cross ice passes. Which pretty much took Drai out of the scoring equation, and thus the one weapon we were overly dependent upon. On top of just working their butts off and staying out of the penalty box. They knew to just weather the first period, and just stay with it that we'd lose ground and couldn't keep up. They played us to a T.

The rest of the team had no answers 5v5... we weren't banging the crease for greasy goals. Lots of low danger shots from the perimeter.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823603 is a reply to message #823602 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
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Good thing small players are useless in the playoffs, otherwise that Marchessault fella could have been an issue. icon_rolleyes

And what's the deal with Kostin and how sparingly he was played? To my eyes, seemed like almost every time he was out there he was doing good things. Just went over to look at the stats and:

4th on the team in +/- at +2. 3 guys (Ryan, Kulak, Broberg) at +3. Only 6 guys on the team in the black.

His hitting - he was crushing everything that moves. I know hits stats are subject to statskeepers' judgement, but still pretty good indicators. Kostin was credited with 38 hits in his limited ice time. That amounts to 24.6 hits/60. Next closest was Bjugstad at 16.6/60, followed by Kane with 13.1/60

Kostin was 4th on the team in Pts/60 all situations (3.232) behind only McDavid, Draisaitl, and Bouchard. Well clear of anyone behind him.

And if you only look at ES (since he didn't get any PP time) - 1ST in ES Pts/60!!! By quite a bit. 3.318. Draisaitl is 2nd at 2.688. Nobody else is even close.

I understand those numbers don't tell the whole story - but they do add to my question of why did he not even get 8 minutes/night? He did about as much as could be reasonably expected with the sparse time he was given. Not sure what more he could have done to earn more time.
confused2

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823609 is a reply to message #823603 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
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Mike wrote on Mon, 15 May 2023 11:19

Good thing small players are useless in the playoffs, otherwise that Marchessault fella could have been an issue. icon_rolleyes

And what's the deal with Kostin and how sparingly he was played? To my eyes, seemed like almost every time he was out there he was doing good things. Just went over to look at the stats and:

4th on the team in +/- at +2. 3 guys (Ryan, Kulak, Broberg) at +3. Only 6 guys on the team in the black.

His hitting - he was crushing everything that moves. I know hits stats are subject to statskeepers' judgement, but still pretty good indicators. Kostin was credited with 38 hits in his limited ice time. That amounts to 24.6 hits/60. Next closest was Bjugstad at 16.6/60, followed by Kane with 13.1/60

Kostin was 4th on the team in Pts/60 all situations (3.232) behind only McDavid, Draisaitl, and Bouchard. Well clear of anyone behind him.

And if you only look at ES (since he didn't get any PP time) - 1ST in ES Pts/60!!! By quite a bit. 3.318. Draisaitl is 2nd at 2.688. Nobody else is even close.

I understand those numbers don't tell the whole story - but they do add to my question of why did he not even get 8 minutes/night? He did about as much as could be reasonably expected with the sparse time he was given. Not sure what more he could have done to earn more time.
confused2


Kostin was getting buried by pretty much every other metric. Corsi, Shots, Scoring chances, Goals, xGoals.

I'm not saying that it was all his fault, but he was even outshot when playing with McDavid and/or Draisaitl (extremely low sample size).

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/game.php?season=20222023&am p;game=30240

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823644 is a reply to message #823609 ]
Tue, 16 May 2023 06:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
Goose wrote on Mon, 15 May 2023 15:59

Kostin was getting buried by pretty much every other metric. Corsi, Shots, Scoring chances, Goals, xGoals.

I'm not saying that it was all his fault, but he was even outshot when playing with McDavid and/or Draisaitl (extremely low sample size).

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/game.php?season=20222023&am p;am p;game=30240


Ah cool - I'm not at all well versed in these numbers. I have an idea what they mean when you lay them out though. Interesting.

See - perfect example of confirmation bias I think. I like the guy, and I think I was only seeing the good he brought. The numbers I knew to look at all seemed to confirm what my eye test told me. But what you show is pretty much the opposite.

I think I'll just call your stuff voodoo, stick my fingers in my ears, and call for Kostin for the Conn Smythe! icon_biggrin

Thanks for the numbers/links icon_thumbsup

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823591 is a reply to message #823557 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 06:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Well, Vegas and Seattle should at least kill the stupid trope that the only way to be successful is to build through the draft…

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823592 is a reply to message #823591 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilfan94 is currently offline oilfan94
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Adam wrote on Mon, 15 May 2023 08:43

Well, Vegas and Seattle should at least kill the stupid trope that the only way to be successful is to build through the draft…


Hey, an expansion draft is still a draft.

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 Re: Review: Vegas @ Edmonton (Game #6) [message #823594 is a reply to message #823592 ]
Mon, 15 May 2023 08:55 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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oilfan94 wrote on Mon, 15 May 2023 08:38

Adam wrote on Mon, 15 May 2023 08:43

Well, Vegas and Seattle should at least kill the stupid trope that the only way to be successful is to build through the draft…


Hey, an expansion draft is still a draft.

There were people here said the Oilers would have been better off moving and starting fresh as an expansion team a decade ago.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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