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Oilers » Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64)

Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819109]	Sat, 04 March 2023 19:30

OilFans
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Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819121 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 19:56

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2419
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

This wasn't a completely terrible game, but the Oilers couldn't overcome the goaltending of Jacky-boy. Outscoring your own mistakes is generally not a good tactic for winning games.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819122 is a reply to message #819121 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 19:56

tardigrade81
Messages: 2266
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

Campbell needs to be benched

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819123 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 19:57

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

I blame McDavid. 1 point? What a bum! icon_wink

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819124 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 20:02

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Campbell back to backs only till the end. That's it. One of the first 3 have to hit him, and has to have one more of the 4th-6th GA.

Oilers are in tough now for the division seed I think the teams above have 1 or 2 games in hand. This game was here for you because you facking scored 5. But 5 isn't enough when Jack Campbell starts. It just isn't.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819125 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 20:06

jerekybeef
Messages: 53
Registered: July 2006
Location: Kamloops

No Cups

Jack Campbell is a brutal goalie as both a starter and backup.

"Make the Oilers great again" - Donny Tramp

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819132 is a reply to message #819125 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 20:35

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

jerekybeef wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 20:06

Jack Campbell is a brutal goalie as both a starter and backup.

He's just pooched this year. Would have been nice to just mutually agree with him to take a mental health break on LTIR and us get a decent backup at the deadline. Ship sailed now unfortunately.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819144 is a reply to message #819132 ]	Sun, 05 March 2023 10:02

Red Rage
Messages: 66
Registered: June 2002
Location: ETOWN

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 20:35

jerekybeef wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 20:06

Jack Campbell is a brutal goalie as both a starter and backup.

He's just pooched this year. Would have been nice to just mutually agree with him to take a mental health break on LTIR and us get a decent backup at the deadline. Ship sailed now unfortunately.

Well, Mike Smith is still officially an Oiler!! I'm not even joking when I say that I'd have more faith in a 50% healthy Mr. Smith than a 100% confidence-lacking Mr. Campbell.

[Updated on: Sun, 05 March 2023 11:44]

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819126 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 20:07

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4421
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

there were some deflection goals, but good goaltenders are positioned to make the save regardless.. Campbell seems to squeeze himself down a size.. compact and small, and hide himself behind the screens in front of him.. any puck that gets wide of the screen is in the net.. lots of NHL goaltenders routinely make saves on shots they don't see, Campbell doesn't appear to possess the positioning skills to that very often.

Oilers score 5 goals, Campbell lets in 6 .. another 0.829 save%

He is officially last resort back up.

Maybe make him the EBUG and bring up Pickard?

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819130 is a reply to message #819126 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 20:23

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 20:07

It's a very big problem. That's a long, long contract and he looks a shell of a man now. Can't stop anything. He's won some games, sure, but the Oilers outscore a lot of their problems, and you can't count on them to score 7 every night.

I guess we can count our blessings that he hasn't let in any from the other team's zone yet, right? I didn't think we could get worse goaltending than Smith/Koskinen, but somehow Holland and Campbell proved me wrong.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819129 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 20:22

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4421
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Might be time to get a second opinion on a goalie coach.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819131 is a reply to message #819129 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 20:24

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 20:22

Might be time to get a second opinion on a goalie coach.

Hey, doesn't Carter Hart use Schwartz in the off-season though?!?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819133 is a reply to message #819131 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 21:02

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4421
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Adam wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 19:24

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 20:22

Might be time to get a second opinion on a goalie coach.

Hey, doesn't Carter Hart use Schwartz in the off-season though?!?

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819135 is a reply to message #819133 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 21:30

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4421
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 20:02

Adam wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 19:24

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 20:22

Might be time to get a second opinion on a goalie coach.

Hey, doesn't Carter Hart use Schwartz in the off-season though?!?

Might be true , but also maybe Hart's innate ability is exceptional enough to overcome average coaching.
If Swartz was a big voice in analyzing and approving the pursuit of Campbell as a UFA, that might be evaluation enough as a goaltending coach/specialist to create some doubt.

Regardless, I think I'd want a "team" of coaches/analysts making decisions on goaltending, instead of leaving to just one "guru", most important position, makes the biggest difference in game outcomes, and I think would need the most thorough analysis possible, more than what one guy can do.

Another thing I've noticed about Campbell is he seems to take a long time to react to the puck being passed across from one side the rink to the other in front of him .. his head pivots to follow the pass (a bit of a delay).. but his push off to slide across the net to face the shooter is noticeably late.. whole side of the net is wide open if the shooter ever gets his shot off.. that's definitely one of his weak areas.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819137 is a reply to message #819135 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 22:36

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 21:30

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 20:02

Adam wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 19:24

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 20:22

Might be time to get a second opinion on a goalie coach.

Hey, doesn't Carter Hart use Schwartz in the off-season though?!?

That was meant tongue in cheek. Carter Hart hasn't been great the last three years. Certainly not living up to his billing. I think he's a prime suspect in the Team Canada scandal too...so maybe that plays a role in his failure to improve, but it wouldn't surprise me if Schwartz was also partly to blame.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819134 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 21:14

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

No back to backs until the end of the month. Stu needs to make 10 straight starts. Such a horrible job from Simple Jack. All you had to do was only let in 5.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819136 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 21:32

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4421
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

.. Go St. Louis!

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819138 is a reply to message #819136 ]	Sat, 04 March 2023 23:37

tardigrade81
Messages: 2266
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

At least the leafs lost

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819139 is a reply to message #819138 ]	Sun, 05 March 2023 01:26

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

tardigrade81 wrote on Sat, 04 March 2023 23:37

At least the leafs lost

I won a $5 side bet that Murray wouldn't be LTIR'd for the rest of the season, so in some regards the Leafs game was a win tonight.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819140 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sun, 05 March 2023 06:27

g2k
Messages: 2840
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

2 Cups

5 years on a goalie with known fragility in confidence made me a bit uncomfortable. I didn’t know much about him other than that.

This off season the local wags will only want to talk about Karlsson though. They will surmise that Oilers are stuck with Campbell and need to let him play through this.

Other than the 2006 Roloson blip, was Tommy Salo our last decent goalie here? I can’t even remember anymore.

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819147 is a reply to message #819140 ]	Sun, 05 March 2023 23:45

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

g2k wrote on Sun, 05 March 2023 06:27

Dubnyk showed flashes here, and became really good as soon as he'd shaken the Edmonton dirt off his boots...

Salo's probably the last guy to be in the conversation for Team MVP though...there was a pretty long stretch where the goalies were regularly given the nod through the Ranford/Joseph/Salo era...then Sather left, and goalies have never been given the same priority. Dubnyk is the only one drafted in the first round since Kevin Lowe took over the reins, and other than the Roloson trade, the Oilers haven't done a lot to acquire goalies by other routes besides the draft (usually relatively late picks) or free agency. You've made me curious so let's take a look:

2000-01 - Salo/Gage - both legacy carry-overs.
2001-02 - Salo/Markkanen/Conklin - Markkanen was an overage drafted player in 2001, Conklin signed after his NCAA career ended.
2002-03 - Salo/Markkanen
2003-04 - Salo/Conklin/Markannen - Salo was in full melt-down at this point and was traded late in the year.
2005-06 - Conklin/Markannen/Morrison/Roloson - Morrison was a Sather 7th rd draft pick from 1998. Roloson of course was a deadline acquisition for a first round pick (Trevor Lewis)
2006-07 - Roloson/Markannen
2007-08 - Garon/Roloson - Garon was a free agent signing.
2008-09 - Roloson/Garon/Deslauriers - Deslauriers was a 2nd round pick in 2002
2009-10 - Deslauriers/Khabibulin/Dubnyk - Khabibulin was a free agent signing, but was hurt much of the year then ran in to legal issues. Dubnyk of course was a 1st round pick in 2004
2010-11 - Khabibulin/Dubnyk/Gerber - Gerber was free agent signing.
2011-12 - Dubnyk/Khabibulin
2012-13 - Dubnyk/Khabibulin/Danis - Danis played 4 games between this year and the prior, after signing as a free agent.
2013-14 - Dubnyk/Scrivens/Bryzgalov/Fasth/Labarbera/Bachman - If you have to ask the question...Season started with Dubs backed by Labarbera (free agent signing). With both struggling behind the Eakins swarm, MacT signed free agent Bryzgalov who posted not bad numbers considering but was hated by the media from the moment he arrived. So then in one fateful day he dealt Dubnyk to Nashville and traded a 3rd to LA for Scrivens. 6 weeks later he dealt Bryzgalov to Minny (for the pick that became Lagesson!) and traded another 3rd and a 5th to Anaheim for Fasth. Box checked. Oilers goaltending was set for the next generation. Oh yeah, and free agent signing Richard Bachman got a cup of tea too.
2014-15 - Scrivens/Fasth/Bachman/Brossoit/Bunz - Trouble in paradise as everyone struggles but we see the first game for Brossoit (acquired for Ladi Smid a year earlier) and the only NHL action for Tyler Bunz (Oilers draft pick)
2015-16 - Talbot/Nilsson/Brossoit - Talbot was acquired from NYR for a 2nd & 3rd round picks and a swap of 7th rounders - probably Chiarelli's best trade as Oilers GM. Nilsson was acquired for Liam Coughlin from Chicago.
2016-17 - Talbot/Brossoit/Gustavsson - Gustavsson was a terrible UFA signing.
2017-18 - Talbot/Brossoit/Montoya - Montoya acquired for conditional draft pick.
2018-19 - Koskinen/Talbot/Stolarz - Koskinen was signed out of Europe. Stolarz was acquired for Talbot, but played just enough so that the Flyers got a higher draft pick meeting the conditions. Koskinen anointed the goalie of the future after 20+ starts and given a long-term deal.
2019-20 - Smith/Koskinen - Smith signed as UFA
2020-21 - Smith/Koskinen/Skinner - first game for Stu Skinner, drafted in the 3rd round in 2017.
2021-22 - Koskinen/Smith/Skinner
2022-23 - Skinner/Campbell - Campbell signed as UFA.

So in the last 20-odd years, here's how it shakes out:

Drafted - Gage (pre-Lowe), Markkanen, Morrison (pre-Lowe), Deslauriers, Dubnyk, Bunz, Skinner
UFA Signing - Garon, Khabibulin, Gerber, Danis, Labarbera, Bachman, Bryzgalov, Gustavsson, Smith, Campbell
European FA Signing - Nilsson, Koskinen
College FA Signing - Conklin
Trade - Sale (pre-Lowe), Roloson, Scrivens, Fasth, Brossoit, Talbot, Montoya, Stolarz,

The UFA of all stripes have been pretty mediocre. And drafting - we've selected 15 goalies in the Lowe-era, of which 5 have played in the NHL (and Bunz is an asterisk on that list, since he saw 20 minutes and got lit up for 3 goals and a career 9.00 GAA.

I think the team just has adopted the old Bobby Clarke/Philadelphia Flyers attitude that you just need an adequate goalie and so they haven't spent enough time scouting or developing one, and they've been loathe to spend any assets to get a good one, even though the two we did give up anything notable for - Roloson and Talbot - are probably some of the best goalies on this list.

And you're right on Salo being the most notable in all this time. He was the starting netminder for 5.5 years. Talbot is the closest to that with 3 of his 4 years here playing the bulk of the games. Other than that, it's just been an endless rotation of suckiness.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819156 is a reply to message #819147 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 10:01

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

So many nostalgic names in the post-Lowe era of awful goaltending list. A decade of darkness bleeds into a quarter century of hopelessness seamlessly sometimes it's tough to notice. A couple random (and pointless thoughts)

-I really thought Garon was going to be an answer. I remember near jubilation in the lunch room when I was a much younger man in an entirely different career.
-The MacTavish as GM era of goaltending (and defense) roulette wheel was impossibly bad. They had no clue.
-Khabibulin was kind of an unlucky signing
-I love that there's a zombie teams in Oilfans fantasy hockey named with a 10 year old Fasth pun

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819181 is a reply to message #819147 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 19:08

g2k
Messages: 2840
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Sun, 05 March 2023 23:45

g2k wrote on Sun, 05 March 2023 06:27

My oh my, what a wasteland. Some of those names made me chuckle. Bryz I had totally forgotten about. I was hoping the Oilers had unlocked something with Garon. A diamond in the rough. I had belief. I was wrong. I recall meeting Montoya at physio when doing rehab on my detached bicep muscle. He wanted to get some things worked on without Oilers knowledge prior to camp that season. Apparently not uncommon according to the therapist. The Conklin blocker bounce when MacTavish pulled him in favour of Morrison for the shoot out. You could smell the burned tire coming out of the TV back then. But then we drafted Hall and produced Oil Change. And oddly the tire fire didn’t extinguish.

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819141 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sun, 05 March 2023 07:31

Steve
Messages: 113
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa

No Cups

I don’t blame Campbell for the tip-ins, but that fourth goal was a back-breaker. He clearly wasn’t focused. It’s such a shame that such a good athlete is getting in his own way. His brain is thinking so much that he loses focus on the game in front of him. A goalie coach can’t fix this. Get the guy a psychiatrist and put him on some sort of meds. Is that considered performance enhancing?

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

- Calvin

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819142 is a reply to message #819141 ]	Sun, 05 March 2023 08:57

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Steve wrote on Sun, 05 March 2023 07:31

Saw comments that the gwg was actually going wide and Campbell redirected it towards the net and in with his blocker. Not only bad but also cursed. Deadly combo. Should have done a Lou Lamoriello style LTIR agreement for the rest of this season.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819143 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sun, 05 March 2023 09:41

kungpaobenji27
Messages: 340
Registered: August 2003
Location: Irving, Texas

No Cups

Apart from some solid games in December, big run in January, and first half of Feb....it's been a rough go for Campbell. Now I know what the hockey pundits mean about this guy being a streaky player throughout his career.

I've been patient with Campbell all season....until last night...bc that's a game we really needed to keep pace in the division...

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819145 is a reply to message #819143 ]	Sun, 05 March 2023 11:24

kungpaobenji27
Messages: 340
Registered: August 2003
Location: Irving, Texas

No Cups

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Sun, 05 March 2023 10:41

Though I'll give Campbell this...he played a huge role in the Oilers getting out of their sub-500 slump and firmly into a 8-10 games above 500 level middle of the season. We're just too deep into the year for this guy to just be suddenly losing confidence....yet again

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819146 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Sun, 05 March 2023 12:48

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Disappointing loss.

Kind of falling behind the pack here with our division rivals having games in hand. I’d like for once the Oilers to have home ice advantage for a lot of the playoffs. They gotta go on a heater now.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819149 is a reply to message #819146 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 08:30

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

So if it's the goalies coaches fault for Campbell, how does one explain Skinner? Schwartz would have had a huge hand in his development and it appears the Oilers have developed a home grown starter.

I am not sticking up for Schwartz because the Oilers have a problem here with Campbell but I am just asking a question if he's bad at his job then Skinner should be lousy as well but he's not. The whole Campbell situation is baffling to me. He looks to be unplayable again which I don't understand how that happened as he looked to have figured out his game coming out of Christmas and it literally looks like a switch got flipped.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819152 is a reply to message #819149 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 09:20

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 08:30

Not blaming Schwartz exactly but just an observation, Skinners game has been a lot more up and down the longer he has been with the big club. So many reasons it can happen, like just the stress of a workload he has never had at the NHL level. Having a kid never seems to help an oilers goalie. Maybe the team in general has been slowly chipping away his confidence a bit by playing like ass for him most of the year and trying much harder when Campbell was in net (that may have swung finally in the last couple weeks). The org overall was showing clearly how desperate they were for Campbell up be the guy which I'm sure Skinner was not blind to. The need to try to justify a huge contract is a dangerous thing.

Overall though I think skinner's game has degraded a bit through the season. Still the way better option than Campbell of course. Hopefully Skinner can get on a nice run leading up to the playoffs.

Still waiting to see an Oilers goalie improve after joining our team under Schwartz. They always peak early followed by a slow decline. Maybe Campbell will do it, since he is starting at an ECHL level.

[Updated on: Mon, 06 March 2023 09:39]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819154 is a reply to message #819152 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 09:39

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 09:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 08:30

Not blaming Schwartz exactly but just an observation, Skinners game has been a lot more up and down the longer he has been with the big club. So many reasons it can happen, like just the stress of a workload he has never had at the NHL level. Having a kid never seems to help an Oilers goalie. Maybe the team in general has been slowly chipping away his confidence a bit by playing like ass for him most of the year and trying much harder when Campbell was in net (that may have swung finally in the last couple weeks). The org overall was showing clearly how desperate they were for Campbell up be the guy which I'm sure Skinner was not blind to. The need to try to justify a huge contract is a dangerous thing.

Overall though I think skinner's game has degraded a bit through the season. Still the way better option than Campbell of course. Hopefully Skinner can get on a nice run leading up to the playoffs.

It's definitely disappointing with Campbell. I wasn't expecting him to give the Oilers vezina goaltending, I just felt pretty confident when he was signed that he'd be capable of giving them middle of the pack goaltending which I felt was enough for a team like the Oilers. Pair him with Skinner who I thought could also give them middle of the pack goaltending (which he has) and they would be fine.

Playing in a Canadian market isn't easy. There is way more expectations from the fans, way more attention from the fans and way more scrutiny and attention from the media than the majority of American markets. Coming from Toronto, a market that would easily match if not beat Edmonton in those areas of attention and scrutiny, plus how they played over the years which was more offensive and not as defensive as other team while also having a defense that I would say wasn't high end, just like the Oilers, and he put up middle of the pack numbers, I didn't see a reason why he couldn't just repeat what he did previously. But his game looks gone.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819155 is a reply to message #819154 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 09:45

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 09:39

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 09:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 08:30

Not blaming Schwartz exactly but just an observation, Skinners game has been a lot more up and down the longer he has been with the big club. So many reasons it can happen, like just the stress of a workload he has never had at the NHL level. Having a kid never seems to help an Oilers goalie. Maybe the team in general has been slowly chipping away his confidence a bit by playing like ass for him most of the year and trying much harder when Campbell was in net (that may have swung finally in the last couple weeks). The org overall was showing clearly how desperate they were for Campbell up be the guy which I'm sure Skinner was not blind to. The need to try to justify a huge contract is a dangerous thing.

Overall though I think skinner's game has degraded a bit through the season. Still the way better option than Campbell of course. Hopefully Skinner can get on a nice run leading up to the playoffs.

The problem with the Campbell signing is and was he has never been capable of middle of the pack or stable goaltending. He was a streaky high risk goaltender in both Carolina and Toronto who could disappear mentally and physically for months at a time. Combined that known pattern with the known and obvious deficiencies in Oilers defense (as acknowledged by Holland in trading Barrie for Ekholm) and what we got from Campbell is not too much below what we and the team should have expected.

Too bad for the fans that the team is stuck with him for a few years.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819157 is a reply to message #819155 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 10:23

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 09:45

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 09:39

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 09:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 08:30

Not blaming Schwartz exactly but just an observation, Skinners game has been a lot more up and down the longer he has been with the big club. So many reasons it can happen, like just the stress of a workload he has never had at the NHL level. Having a kid never seems to help an Oilers goalie. Maybe the team in general has been slowly chipping away his confidence a bit by playing like ass for him most of the year and trying much harder when Campbell was in net (that may have swung finally in the last couple weeks). The org overall was showing clearly how desperate they were for Campbell up be the guy which I'm sure Skinner was not blind to. The need to try to justify a huge contract is a dangerous thing.

Overall though I think skinner's game has degraded a bit through the season. Still the way better option than Campbell of course. Hopefully Skinner can get on a nice run leading up to the playoffs.

His career averages are 2.73 and .910. I have to think those numbers have fallen down a little if this seasons numbers are in them.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819158 is a reply to message #819157 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 10:29

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 10:23

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 09:45

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 09:39

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 09:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 08:30

Not blaming Schwartz exactly but just an observation, Skinners game has been a lot more up and down the longer he has been with the big club. So many reasons it can happen, like just the stress of a workload he has never had at the NHL level. Having a kid never seems to help an Oilers goalie. Maybe the team in general has been slowly chipping away his confidence a bit by playing like ass for him most of the year and trying much harder when Campbell was in net (that may have swung finally in the last couple weeks). The org overall was showing clearly how desperate they were for Campbell up be the guy which I'm sure Skinner was not blind to. The need to try to justify a huge contract is a dangerous thing.

Overall though I think skinner's game has degraded a bit through the season. Still the way better option than Campbell of course. Hopefully Skinner can get on a nice run leading up to the playoffs.

His career averages are 2.73 and .910. I have to think those numbers have fallen down a little if this seasons numbers are in them.

He had better defense in Carolina and Toronto. A drop should have been expected. His streakiness makes the careers averages kind of pointless to think about.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819159 is a reply to message #819158 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 11:00

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Think you mean LA instead of Carolina, but point still stands as those were the Doughty-Muzzin days.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819160 is a reply to message #819159 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 11:04

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 11:00

Think you mean LA instead of Carolina, but point still stands as those were the Doughty-Muzzin days.

Oh yeah, you're right. I got Campbell's hot and cold natured jumbled with Anderson's always injured on my mental list of goalies who can't be trusted.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819162 is a reply to message #819160 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 12:20

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 11:04

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 11:00

Think you mean LA instead of Carolina, but point still stands as those were the Doughty-Muzzin days.

Oh yeah, you're right. I got Campbell's hot and cold natured jumbled with Anderson's always injured on my mental list of goalies who can't be trusted.

Analytics nerds had lots of data to conclude that Campbell had consistently poor high danger sav%, which should be a red flag for a starter. His record was spectacular though! It's good here too. Just, you can see how the way he has been getting that record is not going to translate to playoff success. He's had the fortune his 2 years of being a 1B at least of playing for teams that can score in bunches.

I was hopeful the analytics nerds were wrong on Campbell. Now back to just wishing the Oilers had a decent analytics department.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819165 is a reply to message #819162 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 12:54

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 12:20

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 11:04

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 06 March 2023 11:00

Think you mean LA instead of Carolina, but point still stands as those were the Doughty-Muzzin days.

Oh yeah, you're right. I got Campbell's hot and cold natured jumbled with Anderson's always injured on my mental list of goalies who can't be trusted.

Even if you weren't big on analytics, it's funny that some of the emo stuff from his past didn't trigger any red flags for the client. He's shown the death spiral before when he's struggled - being really open about how frustrated he is. I mean, I never liked Mike Smith's habit of blaming his teammates, but at least he had the mental fortitude to fight off a bad goal or a bad game. I'm okay with a goalie who takes the blame to an extent, but Campbell seems to go the extra mile there and really beats himself up about it. I think it leads to these prolonged swoons because he doesn't seem capable of just shrugging off a mistake. That's going to be a big problem.

And yeah - Toronto's defensive structure was good for masking his faults. He was also bad in the playoffs last year - much like Mike Smith just before we signed him from Calgary!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #64) [message #819161 is a reply to message #819109 ]	Mon, 06 March 2023 11:41

Rocksteady
Messages: 527
Registered: March 2007

No Cups

Ahhh the Oilers where goalies come to die.

Campbell isn't the goalie he was advertised to be and that WPG game on the 4th and 5th goals were stops he has to make. We all know this.

Not sure if it's our goaltending coach, but there is a pattern.. I'm not sure but I think we've always had a for as long as I can remember a goaltending coach who is from our own back yard.

Ekholm helps, but our D is still allowing those easy close shots.

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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