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Oilers » Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39)

Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816086]	Tue, 03 January 2023 21:30

OilFans
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Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816087 is a reply to message #816086 ]	Tue, 03 January 2023 21:36

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

The ol’ give you 5 in a row will work against you every time.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816088 is a reply to message #816087 ]	Tue, 03 January 2023 21:41

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:36

The ol’ give you 5 in a row will work against you every time.

Especially against Kraken hockey.

Two back of Seattle who has 3 games in hand, one up on Colorado who has two games in hand. Worrisome.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816089 is a reply to message #816088 ]	Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

clutchlikeeberle
Messages: 252
Registered: April 2012

No Cups

Wish I took the bet, when I said in October this team wouldn't make the playoffs. They are terrible. Lack of Leadership is showing through. Anyone who thinks Keith and Smith didn't bring locker room accountability have to be stupid. This is a sad sack of players. 97 and 29 won't be pleased when they meet with Holland when they clear out lockers while others are preping for the post season.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816092 is a reply to message #816089 ]	Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

You sound like someone who doesn't remember what last December and January was like. Keith and Smith were not the problem then and they're not what's missing now.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/EDM/2022_games.html

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816095 is a reply to message #816092 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 02:16

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

Pretty Obvious whats missing. So how do we luck out with another Kane this year?

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816097 is a reply to message #816095 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 08:32

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 02:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

Pretty Obvious whats missing. So how do we luck out with another Kane this year?

I don't see how Kane moves the Oilers out of 22nd in goals against. 4th in scoring with a +6 differential.

Same as it ever was.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816099 is a reply to message #816097 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 09:41

Adam
Messages: 7178
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 08:32

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 02:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

Pretty Obvious whats missing. So how do we luck out with another Kane this year?

I don't see how Kane moves the Oilers out of 22nd in goals against. 4th in scoring with a +6 differential.

Same as it ever was.

Can he play goal?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816100 is a reply to message #816099 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 10:09

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 09:41

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 08:32

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 02:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

Pretty Obvious whats missing. So how do we luck out with another Kane this year?

I don't see how Kane moves the Oilers out of 22nd in goals against. 4th in scoring with a +6 differential.

Same as it ever was.

Can he play goal?

As if we (the fans, not the team) didn't suffer enough with Koskinen's glove hand. Now you want us (again, the fans) to go through THAT?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816126 is a reply to message #816097 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 21:16

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 08:32

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 02:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

Pretty Obvious whats missing. So how do we luck out with another Kane this year?

I don't see how Kane moves the Oilers out of 22nd in goals against. 4th in scoring with a +6 differential.

Same as it ever was.

12-11-2 Without Kane since he became an Oiler.

36-17-4 With Kane in the Line-up since he became an Oiler

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816127 is a reply to message #816126 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 21:59

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 21:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 08:32

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 02:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

Pretty Obvious whats missing. So how do we luck out with another Kane this year?

I don't see how Kane moves the Oilers out of 22nd in goals against. 4th in scoring with a +6 differential.

Same as it ever was.

12-11-2 Without Kane since he became an Oiler.

36-17-4 With Kane in the Line-up since he became an Oiler

I remember when Ryan Stone started something like 9-0 as an Oiler. That doesn't mean Kane doesn't make the Oilers better, it just means Kane doesn't fix the obvious problems.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816128 is a reply to message #816127 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 22:53

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 21:59

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 21:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 08:32

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 02:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

Pretty Obvious whats missing. So how do we luck out with another Kane this year?

I don't see how Kane moves the Oilers out of 22nd in goals against. 4th in scoring with a +6 differential.

Same as it ever was.

12-11-2 Without Kane since he became an Oiler.

36-17-4 With Kane in the Line-up since he became an Oiler

I remember when Ryan Stone started something like 9-0 as an Oiler. That doesn't mean Kane doesn't make the Oilers better, it just means Kane doesn't fix the obvious problems.

Well Kane was the solution to a team that had the exact same issues last year. In fact we were rather desperate when we got him then too.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816129 is a reply to message #816128 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 23:00

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 22:53

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 21:59

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 21:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 08:32

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 02:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

Pretty Obvious whats missing. So how do we luck out with another Kane this year?

I don't see how Kane moves the Oilers out of 22nd in goals against. 4th in scoring with a +6 differential.

Same as it ever was.

12-11-2 Without Kane since he became an Oiler.

36-17-4 With Kane in the Line-up since he became an Oiler

I remember when Ryan Stone started something like 9-0 as an Oiler. That doesn't mean Kane doesn't make the Oilers better, it just means Kane doesn't fix the obvious problems.

Well Kane was the solution to a team that had the exact same issues last year. In fact we were rather desperate when we got him then too.

Same as Woodcroft, right? The Oilers were exposed in the playoffs for what they have always been. A team that can sometimes outscore their problems. Kane makes it a little easier to outscore the problems, but they can't do it all the time. Especially when they finally get up against a real contender.

More importantly, he's probably still months away from coming back and we don't know if he'll be able to shoot.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816130 is a reply to message #816129 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 23:14

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:00

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 22:53

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 21:59

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 21:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 08:32

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 02:16

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

Pretty Obvious whats missing. So how do we luck out with another Kane this year?

I don't see how Kane moves the Oilers out of 22nd in goals against. 4th in scoring with a +6 differential.

Same as it ever was.

12-11-2 Without Kane since he became an Oiler.

36-17-4 With Kane in the Line-up since he became an Oiler

I remember when Ryan Stone started something like 9-0 as an Oiler. That doesn't mean Kane doesn't make the Oilers better, it just means Kane doesn't fix the obvious problems.

Well Kane was the solution to a team that had the exact same issues last year. In fact we were rather desperate when we got him then too.

I think Kane had a lot more to do with the teams confidence level and swagger. They play like they are all a couple inches taller when hes around. I mean its night and day. We play like push overs since hes been out.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816131 is a reply to message #816129 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 23:48

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:00

Exposed in the playoffs? They won 2 rounds and ran roughshod over the darling of the talking heads. Ran into the champs in round 3. 28 other teams WISH they were exposed that way.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816132 is a reply to message #816131 ]	Thu, 05 January 2023 00:01

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:48

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:00

Exposed in the playoffs? They won 2 rounds and ran roughshod over the darling of the talking heads. Ran into the champs in round 3. 28 other teams WISH they were exposed that way.

No kidding. Take a breath people. I know we all wished we were leading the league right now. This still a team with the two best players in the world. Our goaltending can only get better. Kane will come back and inject some heart and hopefully we can rent a d-man or two at the deadline. Not time for doom and gloom yet. We could go on a 8 game win streak ffs.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816134 is a reply to message #816132 ]	Thu, 05 January 2023 07:21

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Talked about this before, but I think we have a great group of forwards - especially once Kane gets back. Despite the lack of production, I think this is the best bottom 6 we've had in decades. With Nuge finally rediscovering his rookie form a decade later (his 12th season??? WHAT???), it easily gives us the best group down the middle in the league. We've got some great wingers in Hyman and Kane (once he comes back), and others that show flashes like Kostin, Holloway, and Foegele.

But that D - that's just not good enough. I think they should pay pretty much whatever the Coyotes want for Chychrun. He can and has played either left or right, is only 24 and still has 2 more years left at a bargain $4.6. Add him, and all of a sudden all the other guys can slide down a spot and I think our D looks a helluva lot better with just that one add.

Other names I've seen - Gavrikov from the Jackets. Don't know much about him - numbers seems mediocre. 27, UFA at year's end. $2.7M.

Apparently Ekholm could be available. He'd likely be our best Dman. He's a bit older at 32, but I think he'll still be very good for the duration of his deal(3 more years after this one). He's not cheap at $6.25M, and no idea about cost to acquire, but certainly an intriguing name.

As for making the money work - NHL GMs are the laziest most uncreative bunch in pro sports. I don't understand why there aren't more 3 way deals. We've finally seen a couple of instances of GMs using a 3rd team to retain on a contract in exchange for assets. As a team in a very clear win now mode, that should be our MO if that is what is needed to fit a salary under the cap. Conversely, when you're a cash rich bottom feeder with cap space, you should aggressively be selling that space to the contenders.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816136 is a reply to message #816132 ]	Thu, 05 January 2023 08:25

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:48

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:00

Exposed in the playoffs? They won 2 rounds and ran roughshod over the darling of the talking heads. Ran into the champs in round 3. 28 other teams WISH they were exposed that way.

Yes, exposed. And yes it was the nicest way possible to get exposed, but they were exposed. Any pretense the Oilers had of being a Stanley Cup contender should have been erased from your mind after the playoffs last year.

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 00:01

Even with Kane coming back, the goaltending maybe getting better, and somehow renting D with no cap space the Oilers are still an obviously flawed team. That's not doom and gloom, it's just how I see the club. An 8 game streak won't change that.

They're still fun to watch, largely because of their flawed nature.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816138 is a reply to message #816136 ]	Thu, 05 January 2023 11:56

Adam
Messages: 7178
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 08:25

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:48

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:00

Exposed in the playoffs? They won 2 rounds and ran roughshod over the darling of the talking heads. Ran into the champs in round 3. 28 other teams WISH they were exposed that way.

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 00:01

Yeah, it's hard to look back at the playoffs and think that it showed this team is on the cusp. We got taken to the limit by a weak LA team coached by a guy who doesn't believe in making adjustments based on what the other team is doing. Then we beat the Flames because McDavid and Draisaitl were otherworldly and their goaltending was a disaster.

We got swatted aside easily by Colorado.

McDavid and Draisaitl led the playoffs in scoring despite getting eliminated in the third round. The production drops off precipitously from there, and just like always, our depth guys don't contribute a whole lot. Here's the goals from forwards not in the top 5:
McLeod 3
Yamamoto 2
Puljujarvi 2
Kassian 2
Ryan 1

Cody Ceci out-pointed every Oilers forward but McD, Drai, Nuge, Kane and Hyman. He tied Yamamoto.

People who want to talk about leadership vacuum seem to forget that Keith was dreadful too - 1-4-5 and -4 in 16 games. Directly responsible for a lot of goals against because he was so damn slow. And Smith and Koskinen weren't good either. Smith had some good games against LA, but then got exposed in the next two series, allowing a lot of bad goals against including one from Red Deer.

So yeah, the Oilers didn't look like they were on the cusp of a championship, despite some incredible individual players on this team. They looked poorly managed - like a team where our only hope is our superstars playing at a level no one has seen in decades to overcome the shortcomings of the rest of the roster.

Worth noting, it seemed in the playoffs that Woodcroft became a more conservative coach, and he's failed to regain his early form since. Maybe he doesn't understand what made him successful last year either.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816145 is a reply to message #816138 ]	Thu, 05 January 2023 13:26

Kr55
Messages: 10783
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 11:56

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 08:25

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:48

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:00

Exposed in the playoffs? They won 2 rounds and ran roughshod over the darling of the talking heads. Ran into the champs in round 3. 28 other teams WISH they were exposed that way.

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 00:01

I remember Keith. He was a star in so many key goals against, OT winners, and the one that finished our run. Yes, we really miss that.

I don't get how Woody has turned into Tippett so fast. What is it about this team? And why did we totally abandon the forwards helping the D in the zone and defending entries? That is THE THING that turned our season around last year. We all gave credit to Manson and Woody, but what the heck, they just stopped doing it. I worry so much that Paul Coffey is pulling is Alpha Winner card and interfering with how we are coached defensively now.

At the same time though, Woody is clearly showing signs of going full Tippett/Hitchcock/McLellan. McLellan isn't coaching like Oilers McLellan anymore though, which adds to my confusion. I would love to solve this mystery of why every Oilers coach turns into the same person.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816149 is a reply to message #816145 ]	Thu, 05 January 2023 14:10

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 13:26

Adam wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 11:56

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 08:25

NetBOG wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:48

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 23:00

Exposed in the playoffs? They won 2 rounds and ran roughshod over the darling of the talking heads. Ran into the champs in round 3. 28 other teams WISH they were exposed that way.

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 00:01

It's not so much Woodcroft changed styles. It's more everyone else is figuring it out and he doesn't know how to adjust to that. That deer in the headlights look after the Kraken empty netter was quite telling. He's at his wits end.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816098 is a reply to message #816092 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 09:40

Adam
Messages: 7178
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

I sure hope Ken Holland knows this. I could definitely see him working the phones furiously trying to land some guy on his last legs to "add leadership" to the room.

I am concerned about Jay Woodcroft and I wonder what happened to the innovative leadership we saw last year. He just seems like a different coach - like the old coaches who preceded him, actually.

Not only is he returning to the McDavid/Draisaitl combo whenever we trail in a game, but it feels like they're almost calling the shots. There was one shift in the third period that had to be over 2 minutes, with both players jumping up in to one more rush late, late in that shift. I know they're both horses, but the team is vulnerable when people take too long shifts, and wouldn't everyone be better served if they're hopping off at the 1 minute mark, and then after 45-60 seconds on the bench you send them back out if you want to see them get more chances to tie it? I think you would and I think it sends a better message, because if Puljujarvi or Hamblin or even Derek Ryan took a 2 minute plus shift with multiple opportunities to change, you know that the coach would be irate.

I get it from 97 and 29's perspective. They just feel that they need to get it done if it's going to get done...no one else ever steps up for the Oilers...but the coach needs to get their buy-in that he's going to do right by them. He did a good job last year getting everyone else to feel like they were part of this too - we need him to do that again, but the rules can't be different for a couple of the guys for that to work. They'll get more playing time, but they can't just take whatever time they want themselves.

Also - Manson had done such a good job with the defencemen in the AHL. I'm curious what he's doing this year. It's just a mess. Again - I do think that there may be a bit of a problem with different rules for different players.

I wonder how much of that is direction from the GM...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816101 is a reply to message #816098 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 10:15

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 09:40

I am concerned about Jay Woodcroft and I wonder what happened to the innovative leadership we saw last year. He just seems like a different coach - like the old coaches who preceded him, actually.

Not only is he returning to the McDavid/Draisaitl combo whenever we trail in a game, but it feels like they're almost calling the shots. There was one shift in the third period that had to be over 2 minutes, with both players jumping up in to one more rush late, late in that shift. I know they're both horses, but the team is vulnerable when people take too long shifts, and wouldn't everyone be better served if they're hopping off at the 1 minute mark, and then after 45-60 seconds on the bench you send them back out if you want to see them get more chances to tie it? I think you would and I think it sends a better message, because if Puljujarvi or Hamblin or even Derek Ryan took a 2 minute plus shift with multiple opportunities to change, you know that the coach would be irate.

I'm not as concerned about 97, but after 2 minutes Leon is going to be useless and slow unless he somehow finds himself on a 2 on 1 with Connor. You kind of watch the time remaining and you wonder how effective they are going to be when they have to be thrown out there in 45 sec again.

I don't know systemically what is different this year, last year they bore down defensively as a team to help in their own zone with similar shortcomings, this year has been hit and miss. Woodcroft was kind of fun to listen to as he carefully chose his words to try to sound eloquent to describe a team that was playing to win down the stretch last year, but now I just avoid his remarks because they're irritating af.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816103 is a reply to message #816101 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 10:24

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

K.McC#24 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 10:15

Adam wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 09:40

Considering how McDavid and Draisaitl are used (and the rest of the first PP group, I guess) I think the Oilers need to consider load management. If only to remove the crutch from the coach and rest of the players.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816102 is a reply to message #816098 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 10:22

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 09:40

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

Judging from the comments I hear from the Oilers privately managed PR firms, no. Holland doesn't know that. There is precious little conversation around how the Stanley Cup contending Oilers went into a season thinking Bouchard, Broberg, Barrie, Murray, and Niemelainen could be part of an effective defensive group with Nurse, Ceci, and Kulak. That was never going to work and, spoiler, it won't work next season either when every single one of those D (except RFA Bouch and Murray) are signed through.

I'll say it again, this season was never going to work because they didn't bother to fix what was exposed last year. We've seen the Oilers go into ~12 season with great top end scoring mixed with no depth and bad D causing questionable goaltending. We've also watched ~23 years of the Oilers being curse by bad, stubborn, out of touch, antiquated, foolish, shortsighted, dithering, pompous, comfortable management.

The problem with the current season is the solution isn't a fix for what's happening right now. Holland needs to go, but that doesn't make the defense better. If only someone could have predicted this. It isn't the coaches, it isn't McDavid, it isn't Drai, it isn't the depth, it isn't even the D. It's the people who looked at this roster and said, "yeah, good enough".

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816104 is a reply to message #816102 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 10:39

Adam
Messages: 7178
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 10:22

Adam wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 09:40

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 23:23

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 03 January 2023 21:49

I think the spectacular failing of the depth suggests that you're right - it isn't entirely a personnel issue. It can't be. You just can't have this many players come in and fail for so long. Not even the Oilers are that unlucky. The culture is rotten from the inside, and that causes management to make bad and ill-informed decisions (increasing the chances that they'll be unlucky) and it causes otherwise good players to fail here again and again and again.

I do think that they're so worried that Connor McDavid will get fed up and ask to leave that they handle him (and Draisaitl and Nurse and a couple other "core" guys) with kid gloves. They let them do whatever they want - which isn't necessarily a good thing. Even great players need direction.

I'm not advocating benching any of them for their mistakes, but just at least limit their shift lengths and make sure it's the coaches choosing the lines and not the players reverting to what's comfortable. You can't have the inmates running the asylum.

The irony, of course, is that these guys WILL all leave if they feel that they can't win a championship here. It's not about needing to never be spoken to harshly - it's about winning Stanley Cups. They won't stay if we can't, and our archaic GM has done just about everything wrong in his time here. He's tied up a bunch of cap in dead space. He's refused to look at ways of clever cap manipulation. He's refused to use analytics provided by anyone who's not A) also booking hotel rooms and flights for the team or B) a blood relative of his. And he's tied up 5 years of big money in a goalie who looks shattered in the first half season of his deal. Anywhere else, that gets a guy fired and probably the joke that hired him in the first place is out too...here? Watch them all get extra titles to add to their business cards.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816105 is a reply to message #816104 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 10:48

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 10:39

I'm not advocating benching any of them for their mistakes, but just at least limit their shift lengths and make sure it's the coaches choosing the lines and not the players reverting to what's comfortable. You can't have the inmates running the asylum.

This is a coaching error and something that can be fixed now. There's no reason for PP1 to get 1:45 every power play. Mix it up. Send them out second in home games. Enforce the 45 second shift length. Tell the team they're no longer allowed to set up lawn chairs on the bench waiting for McDavid to do something to save the season.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816090 is a reply to message #816086 ]	Tue, 03 January 2023 21:53

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4421
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

up 2-0 and crap the sheets..
Time to load up LD and McD again.. except for Hyman their wingers don't add a nanogram of goal scoring threat.. might as well put them together and be goal-less on their own lines without dragging down either LD or McD. Let 93 center the 2nd line.

Bouchard -2 and in the box for another.. plus 2 give aways.. solid work buddy.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816091 is a reply to message #816090 ]	Tue, 03 January 2023 22:00

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

This teams playing like they are trying to get another coach fired.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816106 is a reply to message #816091 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 10:49

tardigrade81
Messages: 2266
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

Babaganoosh2.0 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 05:00

This teams playing like they are trying to get another coach fired.

Big time. Sad to see

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816094 is a reply to message #816090 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 00:47

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Kind of a rough night for Bouchard and Kulak in particular.

D rough for sure, 1 goalie and it's not the LT signed starter, no production at wing in the top 6 aside from Hyman, so that forces either Nuge or LD to play wing. Kane still has to be 15-20 games away.

Slim pickings 5v5, old news.

Is Holland really going to roll with this D? Probably have to let loose a prospect, a 1st (definitely has to be used, I'd say), one or 2 of the younger $3 mil wingers (who are not getting it done in the top 9, really), A D who played tonight. The Oilers have quite a bit they can move and do without in order to get better, the question surrounds who will be takers on the contracts you have to move.

It took a coaching change and EK to kick-start this outfit last year, at minimum it's going to take a shakeup on the back end with a guy coming that is unquestionably at least a #3D in this group, preferably 1b or #2. Have to move some of these guys down. I think I heard that Ekholm is now available from NSH, so the trade availability on the back end is deeper. No to Klingberg and Karlsson. He can't roll with this D all year, can't do it.

This is a puzzling hockey team. They can beat anyone with their best effort and execution, but the execution kills them most of the time if it's not the effort early in games. Hard to watch too frequently this season.

confused2

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816093 is a reply to message #816086 ]	Tue, 03 January 2023 23:27

Kr55
Messages: 10783
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

This team is becoming unlikable again :)

Kostin is really the only hope. And Skinner's moustache.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816096 is a reply to message #816093 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 05:44

tardigrade81
Messages: 2266
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

We need Kane back

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816107 is a reply to message #816086 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 12:53

Adam
Messages: 7178
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Quote:

bcurlock @bcurlock
The Edmonton Oilers have three of the top eleven scorers in the NHL.

At 5x5 those three players are -1 in GF/GA.

I hi-light 5x5 because of its importance late in the regular season and the playoffs.

This is another area that got better under Woody last year, but has now reverted to problems. The best players on the team aren't even outscoring the opposition at even strength. They're relying entirely on the powerplay to save the day, and we know that we won't get those opportunities in the playoffs - at least not to the same extent. The fact that the PK is also bad even erases some of our advantage at special teams.

This is an area that has declined during the last decade or so. Even with Taylor Hall, the Oilers had the same issues around depth, but they made up for it in part because Hall's line was typically pretty dominant at even strength. When they were off the ice we were terrible, and the special teams were all bad in those days, with the rotating cast of coaches all struggling to figure out even where to put Hall to be effective, while trying to set up Eberle as the trigger man much of the time. But at even strength, when our top line was on the ice, we had the puck a lot of the time, and generated chances.

McDavid and Draisaitl haven't had that lately - I think in part because they take too long on the ice too often, and our transition game is pretty flawed if the puck isn't in McDavid's possession.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816108 is a reply to message #816086 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 15:13

Kr55
Messages: 10783
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Jason Gregor @JasonGregor
Oilers lines:
Kostin-McDavid-Hyman
RNH-Draisaitl-Yamamoto
Bottom six wasn't as clear. Didn't do any line rushes.
Foegele-McLeod-Puljujarvi
Janmark-Holloway-Ryan
Did do some drills together. But not a lock.

Fan fav Kostin launched to top line. hmmm...

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816109 is a reply to message #816108 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 16:04

Adam
Messages: 7178
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 15:13

Well, I prefer him there to Janmark at least???

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816113 is a reply to message #816109 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 17:21

HamBlaster
Messages: 989
Registered: June 2007

No Cups

Janmark has better wheels than Kostin though.

Anyone else starting to feel the general malaise starting to set in again? Both in the ranks of the team, but also as a fan? I'm so tired of this broken record. How is this team still fighting to just get into the playoffs? They should be a legit contender by now... but no, still just a middling squad. There is ZERO identity. There is no P&V in these players. None.

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816119 is a reply to message #816113 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 18:57

Adam
Messages: 7178
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

HamBlaster wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 17:21

Fan Malaise has been there all year. They don't sell out games now. There's just an inevitability that they're going to suck. Look how fast people have turned on Campbell, Nurse, etc. There's an incredible amount of frustration that we're this far in to McDavid's career and the team can't get their act together.

It all comes down to management, but it's the one sacred cow here. The media won't even criticize the management for any of their foolish moves. When a change is made, they just bring in another old boy who thinks the same way, so we have the most archaic management in the league, and we've done an unprecedented job at squandering the talent we've been given. I mean, look at the starting goalie that he just committed big money and term to! And that defence isn't just mediocre - they're all signed long-term other than Bouchard. This is the championship defence in Holland's imagination.

Gretzky was in a Finals in his 4th season and won in his 5th. Lemieux won Cups in his 7th and 8th seasons. Lindros was in the Finals in his fifth season. Crosby was in the Finals in his third and won in his fourth. McDavid? This is season 8. Only one deep playoff run, and we went through two pretty weak teams on the way before getting swatted aside easily by the Avs in round 3. Finals? Stanley Cup Champs? It doesn't feel like we're getting closer.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Seattle @ Edmonton (Game #39) [message #816123 is a reply to message #816119 ]	Wed, 04 January 2023 19:52

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 18:57

HamBlaster wrote on Wed, 04 January 2023 17:21

They're not getting closer to being a Stanley Cup contender. They're wildly mediocre in a fortunate division.

The good news is they're getting into the California portion of the schedule. I thought the first half of the year was going to be tough while the home stretch would be pretty kind.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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