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Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #799971]	Thu, 17 February 2022 02:00

OilFans
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2021-22 Regular Season
Tuesday, October 19, 2021 Anaheim 5 @ Edmonton 6 Win
Thursday, February 17, 2022 Anaheim 3 @ Edmonton 7 Win
Sunday, April 3, 2022 Edmonton 6 @ Anaheim 1 Win
Home Record: 2-0-0 Road Record: 1-0-0 Overall Record: 3-0-0
Home / Road Goals For: 13/6 Total: 19
Home / Road Goals Against: 8/1 Total: 9

2020-21 Regular Season
Home Record: 0-0-0 Road Record: 0-0-0 Overall Record: 0-0-0
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Home / Road Goals Against: 0/0 Total: 0

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #799974 is a reply to message #799971 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 07:52

Oscargasm
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Hope the boys are hungry tonight because they can feast on duck! If they aren’t hungry, well then the duck is going to wings out chase them ala goose style.

Ducks can’t fly in musty air

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #799976 is a reply to message #799971 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 09:39

Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Zegras vs. Broberg today!

https://theathletic.com/3135315/2022/02/17/oilers-picking-ph ilip-broberg-over-trevor-zegras-is-still-debated-heres-why-k en-holland-stands-by-it/?source=emp_shared_article

Quote:

Why the Oilers picked Broberg

Ken Holland was only a few weeks into his new job as Oilers GM when the draft came, but it seemed like this pick had been telegraphed for almost as long.

The Oilers lacked high-end forward prospects. Blueliners like Ethan Bear and Caleb Jones were pushing for full-time roles. Evan Bouchard was selected at No. 10 the previous year by then-GM Peter Chiarelli.

Still, all the scuttlebutt was that Holland was going to pick Broberg. That’s exactly what happened.

“I’m certainly aware that we need forwards, but I also know that you’ve gotta have a good defence. It’s gotta be deep. It’s gotta be talented,” he said in Vancouver after picking Broberg. “That’s really important in the league today.”

He lays it out even more clearly two and a half years later.

“Stanley Cup teams have good defences, big defences, and it was a good opportunity to get a big defenceman with skill,” Holland said.

There were a lot of high-quality forwards still on the board when it came time for the Oilers to pick. In addition to Zegras, fellow United States National Team Development Program members Matthew Boldy and Cole Caufield hadn’t been selected.

When Holland ran the Red Wings, he lived in Northville, Mich., a suburb of Detroit that’s a 10-minute drive from the development team’s home rink in Plymouth. He saw many of their games live. And while there was much to like about the forwards on that elite team, none to them still available quite stacked up to Broberg in his mind.

“Most of them, if not all of them, are going to be really good players for their teams for a long time,” Holland said. “My philosophy in team building was you’ve got to be good in the back end.”

In 2019, Zegras was considered by many to be the more impactful prospect than Broberg.

TSN scouting director Craig Button had Zegras sixth and Broberg seventh in his final rankings. The Athletic colleague Corey Pronman put Zegras sixth as well on his draft board, putting him in his elite/high-end bubble tier; he had Broberg ninth and a peg below in the high-end NHL prospect category.

Fellow The Athletic teammate Scott Wheeler slotted Zegras 12th and Broberg 19th in his final rankings. Wheeler felt Boldy, who went 12th to Minnesota, would have been the best choice for Edmonton at the time.

“I didn’t truthfully love the Broberg selection at the time, in part because they’d just drafted Bouchard and they’ve sorely needed talent insulation up front for (Connor) McDavid and (Leon) Draisaitl,” Wheeler said. “I was also just lower on Broberg than most at the time, believing he was sporadic and played too much on instinct.”

Some more Holland-isms in this article:

Quote:

“American League is very, very valuable for players’ development, and that’s been the case with Phil,” Holland said. “I believe in experience. You’ve got to smell the bus fumes.”

And the finale:

Quote:

Is there any chance Broberg ends up being the better player?

Holland isn’t concerned about Broberg’s progress in the slightest. He has high hopes for Broberg’s future.

The expectation from the GM is Broberg will slide in behind Nurse on the left side for years to come.

“I believe he’s going to be a top-four defenceman in the National Hockey League,” Holland said. “In my mind, that’s not a question.”

Because the Oilers are trying to win now, Broberg will be in that position on a regular basis when it’s deemed he can help the Oilers do just that.

A top-four defenceman is far from a bad outcome for a No. 8 pick. As Broberg continues to improve, he could be a staple of Edmonton’s defence and team. That’s all well and good.

It probably doesn’t mean the Oilers picked the best player available, though.

“Even with my glossier view of Broberg today than at almost any point prior, I think it’s fair to expect Zegras to be the more impactful player now and into the future,” Wheeler said.

Holland isn’t concerned about what-if scenarios or prognostications when it comes to Zegras.

“I can’t go back three drafts,” he said. “That’s not the luxury I have.”

He knows Zegras is and will be a good player — and that would have likely happened regardless of which team picked him.

But he’s also pleased Broberg is an Oilers player and considers him an important building block for the future.

“If you’re going to be a Cup contender, you need to be big, rangy, good and talented on the back end,” Holland said. “You look at the St. Louis Blues defence when they won. You look at the Tampa Bay defence when they won one. You look at the Boston Bruins defence when they won.

“You’ve got to be good and deep on the back end. Certainly, that’s what we’re trying to do.”

Not a lot of confidence there from Holland that he picked the right guy. Says he likes him and he'll be an important player but definitely not making any prognostications of future greatness from Broberg.

I think Broberg's looked generally pretty smooth so far this year, although Tippett far from an ideal first coach, and his minus numbers give some concern that he wasn't really ready for the push yet. That's not the end of the world for sure - there's a lot of defencemen who aren't ready to excel in their first taste of the NHL. I still think that Holland out-thought himself at that draft table.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #799977 is a reply to message #799976 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 09:58

Oscargasm
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I don’t think Holland is going to outright say he expects Broberg to be a top pairing victory Hedman clone. He’s not going to put that expectation out in the world that this guy is going to be the best dman in the league, when he likely won’t, and then both get crushed by the media and Oilfans posters.

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #799980 is a reply to message #799977 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 10:09

RDOilerfan
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 09:58

I don’t think Holland is going to outright say he expects Broberg to be a top pairing victory Hedman clone. He’s not going to put that expectation out in the world that this guy is going to be the best dman in the league, when he likely won’t, and then both get crushed by the media and Oilfans posters.

I'd be very happy with a big, skates like the wind, puck moving, puck rushing, plays 20+ mins a night good all around dman which sure looks like where Broberg is trending.

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #799978 is a reply to message #799976 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 10:02

oilfan94
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Adam wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 11:39

I think Broberg's looked generally pretty smooth so far this year, although Tippett far from an ideal first coach, and his minus numbers give some concern that he wasn't really ready for the push yet. That's not the end of the world for sure - there's a lot of defencemen who aren't ready to excel in their first taste of the NHL.

Somewhere in Bakersfield, Dmitri Samorukov is looking sadly at the floor right now.

Also, just a side note, Bakersfield is one of my least favorite places I have ever been, and I I've always felt bad for our AHL guys for having to live there. I'd live in OKC any day ahead of Bakersfield if given the choice.

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #799982 is a reply to message #799978 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 10:43

Adam
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oilfan94 wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 10:02

Adam wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 11:39

I think Broberg's looked generally pretty smooth so far this year, although Tippett far from an ideal first coach, and his minus numbers give some concern that he wasn't really ready for the push yet. That's not the end of the world for sure - there's a lot of defencemen who aren't ready to excel in their first taste of the NHL.

Somewhere in Bakersfield, Dmitri Samorukov is looking sadly at the floor right now.

Also, just a side note, Bakersfield is one of my least favorite places I have ever been, and I I've always felt bad for our AHL guys for having to live there. I'd live in OKC any day ahead of Bakersfield if given the choice.

Matheson was tweeting about Samorukov yesterday and how he's been passed by Niemelainen and Broberg, and he's trending down in the organization's estimation so they should think of him as a trading chip now.

I think this is the mistake the Oilers always make - I was banging this drum earlier too - in that they wait for separation before ever making a deal, and then they sell low when someone has fallen out of favour. The team has to be more nimble in deciding which prospect is going to get the push, and then trade the other guy while his value is still high. Samorukov a year or two ago gets you something. Samorukov now? He's a throw-in to a deal more likely.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #799979 is a reply to message #799976 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 10:07

RDOilerfan
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Zegras has lots of flash and dash and I am sure will be a real good offensive player. To be a championship team, you need a good defense. Typically forwards, are able to make an impact WAY earlier than dmen simply because of the differing requirements of the position. At only 20 in his first year in North America, while still needing some more development time, Broberg looks like he can play at the NHL level. He's going to make some mistakes as young dmen do as he learns the game and the position but he doesn't look totally out of place. He's got all the tools to be a very impactful, top 4 dman that can give you big mins.

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #799986 is a reply to message #799979 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 11:18

Dragon_Matt
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I'm curious if Holland takes the stance of 'lower expectations' on most prospects. I kind of like that, especially in Edmonton, where the fans eat those that don't meet expectations. Set the bar a little lower, keep some of the pressure off the younger players if you can.

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #799987 is a reply to message #799986 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 11:30

Adam
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 11:18

I'm curious if Holland takes the stance of 'lower expectations' on most prospects. I kind of like that, especially in Edmonton, where the fans eat those that don't meet expectations. Set the bar a little lower, keep some of the pressure off the younger players if you can.

I don't mind downplaying expectations. I do remember the Broberg draft though - and they took a guy who was consistently ranked lower. The only justification we've had is that the Oilers drafted for position - which is always a bad idea. I liked Caufield better too. The Oilers had more organizational strength at defence at that point than at wing anyhow, where Chiarelli took the whole "you build down the middle" mantra to mean we don't need any wingers.

Zegras is a centre, but I don't think that should ever matter, just like it shouldn't have mattered with Barzal. Great centres can adjust to play on the wing, and young centres usually struggle in the faceoff circle anyhow.

He's a pretty dynamic player, and I think it's already pretty clear that Holland blew it. I mean, as Chiarelli demonstrated, you can trade for just about any second pairing defenceman in the league for a top end forward.

I wish Broberg all the best and hope he's a really successful Oiler - but it's still a draft fail because the Oilers bucked conventional wisdom in order to take the worse player.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800004 is a reply to message #799987 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 13:23

Adam
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Bringing this back over here, because the Holloway thread really isn't the place to debate Zegras vs. Broberg:

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 12:57

The whole point of my reply was you are looking at Zegra right now and comparing him to Broberg. Right now, does Zegras look great with his lacrosse goals, you bet. He sure looks flashy and talented, no doubt about it. But in a year or 2 from now, if Broberg lives up to his potential and he's in the Oilers second pair rushing and moving pucks and giving you 20 mins a night, that pick will look pretty good in my opinion.

Zegras is currently the Ducks' second leading scorer with 33 points in 42 games. On the Oilers, he'd be 4th behind only 97, 29 and 93. A first line forward is worth more than a 2nd pairing defenceman.

So if Broberg is a solid second pairing guy in a couple years, we should be glad that he is, but also capable of seeing that our GM made a blunder there, going off the board for someone who, just like all the experts believed, wasn't as good as the guy they could have had.

Assuming that Zegras isn't a flash in the pan, if he continues to score like he has as a rookie, then Broberg is going to need to be more than just a decent second pair guy to cover that bet.

Could teams all use good second pair defencemen? Absolutely - it still doesn't make them better than star forwards. Had we got Travis Hamonic instead of Griffin Reinhart for the Barzal pick, we still would have lost that deal, even though Hamonic is a real 2nd pairing defencemen.

This shouldn't be that controversial or hard to follow...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800009 is a reply to message #800004 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 14:16

Goose
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Adam wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 12:23

Zegras is currently the Ducks' second leading scorer with 33 points in 42 games. On the Oilers, he'd be 4th behind only 97, 29 and 93. A first line forward is worth more than a 2nd pairing defenceman.

So if Broberg is a solid second pairing guy in a couple years, we should be glad that he is, but also capable of seeing that our GM made a blunder there, going off the board for someone who, just like all the experts believed, wasn't as good as the guy they could have had.

Assuming that Zegras isn't a flash in the pan, if he continues to score like he has as a rookie, then Broberg is going to need to be more than just a decent second pair guy to cover that bet.

Could teams all use good second pair defencemen? Absolutely - it still doesn't make them better than star forwards. Had we got Travis Hamonic instead of Griffin Reinhart for the Barzal pick, we still would have lost that deal, even though Hamonic is a real 2nd pairing defencemen.

This shouldn't be that controversial or hard to follow...

I don't even mind the philosophy that you need to build from the backend out. There's more than one way to build a team and teams have successfully employed that philosophy in the past. I think in the Oilers case it ignores a bit the win now mentality that I think they should have and that forwards tend to make the jump earlier than defencemen and Zegras was considered by most to be the better player at the time.

But if that's the philosophy, then can someone please explain the Bear/Foegele trade?

Bear/Zegras >>> Broberg/Foegele.

[Updated on: Thu, 17 February 2022 14:28]

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800012 is a reply to message #800009 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 14:32

Dragon_Matt
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no.

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800016 is a reply to message #800009 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 14:39

Adam
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Goose wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 14:16

Adam wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 12:23

Zegras is currently the Ducks' second leading scorer with 33 points in 42 games. On the Oilers, he'd be 4th behind only 97, 29 and 93. A first line forward is worth more than a 2nd pairing defenceman.

So if Broberg is a solid second pairing guy in a couple years, we should be glad that he is, but also capable of seeing that our GM made a blunder there, going off the board for someone who, just like all the experts believed, wasn't as good as the guy they could have had.

Assuming that Zegras isn't a flash in the pan, if he continues to score like he has as a rookie, then Broberg is going to need to be more than just a decent second pair guy to cover that bet.

Could teams all use good second pair defencemen? Absolutely - it still doesn't make them better than star forwards. Had we got Travis Hamonic instead of Griffin Reinhart for the Barzal pick, we still would have lost that deal, even though Hamonic is a real 2nd pairing defencemen.

This shouldn't be that controversial or hard to follow...

I don't even mind the philosophy that you need to build from the backend out. There's more than one way to build a team and teams have successfully employed that philosophy in the past. I think in the Oilers case it ignores a bit the win now mentality that I think they should have given that forwards tend to make the jump earlier than defencemen and Zegras was considered by most to be the better player at the time.

But if that's the philosophy, then can someone please explain the Bear/Foegele trade?

Bear/Zegras >>> Broberg/Foegele.

Well, Bear made a mistake in a playoff game, and then was getting off the ice after his first shift in an hour when the Jets scored the series winning goal. So you had to get rid of him. Especially after Holland got asked uncomfortable questions about racism because of that player. And then Chicago comes offering a future Hall of Famer for a low low price and what more could the Oilers do really other than trade Bear for a third liner...

I feel like Holland came in thinking he could say that the place was a mess and that no one should expect anything from him for 4-5 years at least, so he could draft a defenceman because "you build from the draft" ignoring the fact we already had the best player in the world and truly should be trying to be competitive from pretty much day 1.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #799988 is a reply to message #799986 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 11:31

Oscargasm
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 11:18

I'm curious if Holland takes the stance of 'lower expectations' on most prospects. I kind of like that, especially in Edmonton, where the fans eat those that don't meet expectations. Set the bar a little lower, keep some of the pressure off the younger players if you can.

100% agree

No need to pump a prospect up and fire a fanbase or media group up expecting said prospect to be otherworldly. You took him over other guys so you clearly think he can be a player. Let him percolate and see what you have when ready.

Hottest girl in your class may provide below average services while plain Jane provides incredible service. Just food for thought

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800003 is a reply to message #799971 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 13:18

NetBOG
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Such a huge game. Win tonight puts them just 0.5 game behind Vegas.

Oilers also need to win this one because the next 4 games are maybe the 4 toughest games for the entire rest of the season. Getting 3 points in those games might be a win.

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800007 is a reply to message #800003 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 14:01

benv
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 13:18

Such a huge game. Win tonight puts them just 0.5 game behind Vegas.

Oilers also need to win this one because the next 4 games are maybe the 4 toughest games for the entire rest of the season. Getting 3 points in those games might be a win.

It's a really funny schedule actually. Two mediocre teams in Anaheim and Winnipeg, followed by four games against four of the best (Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Florida, Carolina). Then we get three against bottom feeders (Philadelphia, Chicago, Montreal) followed by another three toughies in Calgary, Washington, and Tampa Bay and then three bottom feeders again in Detroit, Buffalo, and New Jersey.

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800008 is a reply to message #800007 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 14:13

NetBOG
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benv wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 14:01

NetBOG wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 13:18

Such a huge game. Win tonight puts them just 0.5 game behind Vegas.

Oilers also need to win this one because the next 4 games are maybe the 4 toughest games for the entire rest of the season. Getting 3 points in those games might be a win.

It's a really funny schedule actually. Two mediocre teams in Anaheim and Winnipeg, followed by four games against four of the best (Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Florida, Carolina). Then we get three against bottom feeders (Philadelphia, Chicago, Montreal) followed by another three toughies in Calgary, Washington, and Tampa Bay and then three bottom feeders again in Detroit, Buffalo, and New Jersey.

Oh ya, Winnipeg on Saturday, then hell week. I totally forgot about them.

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800013 is a reply to message #799971 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 14:35

Oscargasm
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Hope y’all can tune in tonight to see Tyler Benson’s first career goal!

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800015 is a reply to message #800013 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 14:38

Dragon_Matt
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Daily faceoff doesn't have the ability to make a lineup of 11 forwards and 7 defense.
I love the look of line 4 with Tyler Benson, Ryan McLeod and Markus Niemelainen

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800017 is a reply to message #800013 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 14:48

Kr55
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 14:35

Hope y’all can tune in tonight to see Tyler Benson’s first career goal!

You know what would really help Benson make it? You picking him up asap in the oilfans pool!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800020 is a reply to message #800017 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 15:36

RDOilerfan
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I haven't seen the lines yet, is Benson even playing? I'd try Perlini if I was making the lines. He's got a good shot so he might score.

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800021 is a reply to message #800017 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 15:44

Oscargasm
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 14:48

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 14:35

Hope y’all can tune in tonight to see Tyler Benson’s first career goal!

You know what would really help Benson make it? You picking him up asap in the oilfans pool!

Done! He’s officially a member of Oscar’s Gasmic Pant Launchers

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800024 is a reply to message #800021 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 16:26

Kr55
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Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 15:44

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 14:48

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 17 February 2022 14:35

Hope y’all can tune in tonight to see Tyler Benson’s first career goal!

You know what would really help Benson make it? You picking him up asap in the oilfans pool!

Done! He’s officially a member of Oscar’s Gasmic Pant Launchers

icon_eek

Legend

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Pregame: Anaheim @ Edmonton (Game #30) [message #800023 is a reply to message #799971 ]	Thu, 17 February 2022 16:20

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

[Updated on: Thu, 17 February 2022 17:21]

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