| GDT:
Edmonton @ Washington (Game #51) [message #798971] |
Wed, 02 February 2022 17:05  |
 OilFans
Messages: 1561
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
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 5
 3 Final
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g2k
Messages: 2841
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
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Score & Win
#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
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watchman
Messages: 1422
Registered: October 2019
Location: River City
1 Cup
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I'm smelling... UPSET. (might be that old milk in the fridge as well) 
...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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It’s crazy that after 40 years of being a public figure, Wayne Gretzky still looks vaguely uncomfortable whenever he’s on camera.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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watchman
Messages: 1422
Registered: October 2019
Location: River City
1 Cup
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Shocker: OIL score first. 
...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).
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Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
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What a TIP Evander!
Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty
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g2k
Messages: 2841
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
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So what’s the worst lead in hockey again? 3-0? 4-0? It’s been so long.
Times a good.
#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
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sinfulchimp306
Messages: 778
Registered: June 2008
Location: Wilkie saskatchewan
No Cups
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I think the worst lead in hockey is any lead the oilers hold
Formerly gagnerisgod.
PLAY LABAMBA BABY
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watchman
Messages: 1422
Registered: October 2019
Location: River City
1 Cup
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...shakey end to the period. 
...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).
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g2k
Messages: 2841
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
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3-2 now.
I think I feel the train tracks vibrating.
#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
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g2k
Messages: 2841
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
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WTH are you thinking Hyman?
If you’re not gonna shoot (which you should have) at least put some heat on that pass to 97. It’s like he was doing a father/son game pass.
#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
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watchman
Messages: 1422
Registered: October 2019
Location: River City
1 Cup
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...maybe BOUCH can't turn to his right? 
...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).
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Skookum Jim
Messages: 4421
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
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| watchman wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 17:46 |
...maybe BOUCH can't turn to his right?
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Have to say I'm plesantly surprised, an unexpected win!
Trying not to pick on Bouchard, but he served a hot pepperoni, extra-large pizza for the Caps first goal.. got the caps back in the game.. The guy is weak as a kitten on cycles, and puck retrievals.. loses one on one puck battles consistently.. gets turnstiled at least once or twice a game.. slow-twitch neurons.. He's over matched on the top D pairing.. defensive liability in general.. I was almost thinking Barrie should replace him to shore up the defensive game.. who's worse defensively?
Foegel proving why he was dropped to the 4th line, bad passes, bad decisions, no hands.
McDavid was absolutely flying.
Kane displaying his scoring touch, still out of shape.. 17 games to go (I figured it'll take 20 games to get in shape)
Kosko was OK.
Team in general still doesn't like to engage physically and finish checks.. which I find just freaking bizarre.
McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,
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Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
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| Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 00:49 |
He's over matched on the top D pairing..
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Are we doing with Bouchard what we've done a million times before with guys like Poti, Petry, Schultz, etc...?
I see a stud there - but to go from AHL/Pressbox to top pairing over the span of basically a few games is a big ask for anyone, especially for Dmen. Might seem like a step back, but I wouldn't mind seeing him on 3rd pair with PP1 time. Either get a UFA to be like Giordano or Ristolainen (no idea how good he is anymore, just remember wanting him a long time ago) to fill in with Nurse on the top pair, or go nuts and do something like Barrie++ for Chychrun or someone like that.
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Skookum Jim
Messages: 4421
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
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| Mike wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 04:56 |
| Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 00:49 |
He's over matched on the top D pairing..
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Are we doing with Bouchard what we've done a million times before with guys like Poti, Petry, Schultz, etc...?
I see a stud there - but to go from AHL/Pressbox to top pairing over the span of basically a few games is a big ask for anyone, especially for Dmen. Might seem like a step back, but I wouldn't mind seeing him on 3rd pair with PP1 time. Either get a UFA to be like Giordano or Ristolainen (no idea how good he is anymore, just remember wanting him a long time ago) to fill in with Nurse on the top pair, or go nuts and do something like Barrie++ for Chychrun or someone like that.
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Agree Bouchard 3rd pair + PP1. Only trouble, his replacement is Ceci or Barrie on RD. Ceci and Keith are a good pair, Barrie is not much of an upgrade defensively.. get Chychrun for a 1st +, or Barrie ++, and you'd have something.. except he shoots left. :(
I think Bouchard's actually regressed defensively since he's been given top pairing with Nurse. Nurse is a horse, he can handle most of the volume of minutes he gets.. Bouchard can't. Plus he has a hard time physically, and positionally to handle pressure in hs own end, he's ok from the blue line out.. but thats not the primary duty of a defenceman. Can't expect to score 4 or 5 goals every game in order to get a win.
I don't know what Playfair has been doing but it doesn't seem to be helping Bouchard get any better at playing NHL level defenceman.
I'm critical of Bouchard because I expect more, you can see the ability, but the hockey IQ isn't there to match, thats what player development is supposed to do, he should be getting better.. Lowetide often says defencemen don't develop in straight lines.. hopefully its true with Bouchard and his development starts trending upwards.
McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,
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Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
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| Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 10:29 |
.. except he shoots left. :(
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I think it's better to have a left and right shot, but it's really not a necessity. Florida has 4 of their top 5 guys as right shots. Leafs have Reilly and Brodie as their top pair (both left shots). I think it's fine to balance left/right, but it's not critical.
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Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
1 Cup
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| Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 06:29 |
Ceci and Keith are a good pair,
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It's funny that we want to call out Bouchard's mistake on the first Caps goal, but seemingly overlook Keith just abandoning Sheary at the side of the net on the Caps 2nd goal. Keith/Ceci haven't been a total disaster, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say they're a good 2nd pair. Especially not for their combined cap hit.
Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games
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Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| Goose wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 10:31 |
| Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 06:29 |
Ceci and Keith are a good pair,
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It's funny that we want to call out Bouchard's mistake on the first Caps goal, but seemingly overlook Keith just abandoning Sheary at the side of the net on the Caps 2nd goal. Keith/Ceci haven't been a total disaster, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say they're a good 2nd pair. Especially not for their combined cap hit.
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I would venture a guess that if we looked at goals where a defenceman was the primary culprit in getting us scored on, Duncan Keith has been more to blame than Evan Bouchard this year.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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Kr55
Messages: 10781
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| Adam wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 10:55 |
| Goose wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 10:31 |
| Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 06:29 |
Ceci and Keith are a good pair,
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It's funny that we want to call out Bouchard's mistake on the first Caps goal, but seemingly overlook Keith just abandoning Sheary at the side of the net on the Caps 2nd goal. Keith/Ceci haven't been a total disaster, but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say they're a good 2nd pair. Especially not for their combined cap hit.
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I would venture a guess that if we looked at goals where a defenceman was the primary culprit in getting us scored on, Duncan Keith has been more to blame than Evan Bouchard this year.
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Can't we just assume that when Keith totally fails on coverage that it is just him trying to teach the team how to win? Intentionally injecting adversity for us to overcome. What we got him to teach basically.
Now when bouch does it though, clear sign he doesn't know how to win
Side note. Spector signing praise for Ceci and Keith because they got points last night.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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hitmen4
Messages: 8
Registered: April 2010
No Cups
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| Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 21:49 |
| watchman wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 17:46 |
...maybe BOUCH can't turn to his right?
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Have to say I'm plesantly surprised, an unexpected win!
Trying not to pick on Bouchard, but he served a hot pepperoni, extra-large pizza for the Caps first goal.. got the caps back in the game.. The guy is weak as a kitten on cycles, and puck retrievals.. loses one on one puck battles consistently.. gets turnstiled at least once or twice a game.. slow-twitch neurons.. He's over matched on the top D pairing.. defensive liability in general.. I was almost thinking Barrie should replace him to shore up the defensive game.. who's worse defensively?
Foegel proving why he was dropped to the 4th line, bad passes, bad decisions, no hands.
McDavid was absolutely flying.
Kane displaying his scoring touch, still out of shape.. 17 games to go (I figured it'll take 20 games to get in shape)
Kosko was OK.
Team in general still doesn't like to engage physically and finish checks.. which I find just freaking bizarre.
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What a joke of a take. Bouchard has played all of 63 NHL games and you're carving him up because he's not a first pairing guy yet? Of course he's going to have some defensive mistakes, and probably lots of them. He's essentially a rookie defenseman even if the weird NHL rules for what qualifies a rookie says he's not.
Bottom line is that Bouchard is still one of our best defenseman. In terms of defenseman, he's #1 on the team in points, goals, assists. 2nd in +/-. If you don't like the traditional counting stats, here are his fancies:
CF%: 54.88
XGF%: 54.15
SCF%: 52.28
HDCF%: 51.02
He's on the right side of 50% on all counts, despite his defensive errors. He's already an elite offensive defenseman.
To be honest his defensive game actually isn't that bad when you consider he plays over 21 minutes a night despite only playing 63 NHL games. Rookie defenseman, even the elite ones, just aren't that good defensively most of the time. Luckily for those guys is most of them don't have to deal with portions of their fan base that think every defenseman that's 6'-3 needs to be the second coming of Chris Pronger before they've even played a full season.
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Skookum Jim
Messages: 4421
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
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| hitmen4 wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 07:03 |
What a joke of a take. Bouchard has played all of 63 NHL games and you're carving him up because he's not a first pairing guy yet? Of course he's going to have some defensive mistakes, and probably lots of them. He's essentially a rookie defenseman even if the weird NHL rules for what qualifies a rookie says he's not.
Bottom line is that Bouchard is still one of our best defenseman. In terms of defenseman, he's #1 on the team in points, goals, assists. 2nd in +/-. If you don't like the traditional counting stats, here are his fancies:
CF%: 54.88
XGF%: 54.15
SCF%: 52.28
HDCF%: 51.02
He's on the right side of 50% on all counts, despite his defensive errors. He's already an elite offensive defenseman.
To be honest his defensive game actually isn't that bad when you consider he plays over 21 minutes a night despite only playing 63 NHL games. Rookie defenseman, even the elite ones, just aren't that good defensively most of the time. Luckily for those guys is most of them don't have to deal with portions of their fan base that think every defenseman that's 6'-3 needs to be the second coming of Chris Pronger before they've even played a full season.
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You made my point for me. We agree he's not an NHL 1st pair d-man.
NHL isn't a development league, if you plan on winning games.
McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,
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hitmen4
Messages: 8
Registered: April 2010
No Cups
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| Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 09:34 |
| hitmen4 wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 07:03 |
What a joke of a take. Bouchard has played all of 63 NHL games and you're carving him up because he's not a first pairing guy yet? Of course he's going to have some defensive mistakes, and probably lots of them. He's essentially a rookie defenseman even if the weird NHL rules for what qualifies a rookie says he's not.
Bottom line is that Bouchard is still one of our best defenseman. In terms of defenseman, he's #1 on the team in points, goals, assists. 2nd in +/-. If you don't like the traditional counting stats, here are his fancies:
CF%: 54.88
XGF%: 54.15
SCF%: 52.28
HDCF%: 51.02
He's on the right side of 50% on all counts, despite his defensive errors. He's already an elite offensive defenseman.
To be honest his defensive game actually isn't that bad when you consider he plays over 21 minutes a night despite only playing 63 NHL games. Rookie defenseman, even the elite ones, just aren't that good defensively most of the time. Luckily for those guys is most of them don't have to deal with portions of their fan base that think every defenseman that's 6'-3 needs to be the second coming of Chris Pronger before they've even played a full season.
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You made my point for me. We agree he's not an NHL 1st pair d-man.
NHL isn't a development league, if you plan on winning games.
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He's a 1st pair d-man on this team. We can argue, and agree on, that he probably shouldn't be on a contending team but the reality is he's the best option right now. Don't see the value in piling on the guy when he's playing great, all things considered. He drives play better than anyone on the back end and is exceeding expectations. Of all the things ailing the Oilers, I don't think Bouchard is very high on that list.
I'd say that Nurse's play is much a much more valid area for criticism. For a guy who is actually supposed to be a #1 d-man (and is about to be paid like one), can we really say he's lived up to expectations? Where is the outrage over his multiple defensive gaffs a game? Outrage is missing because he plays a physical game. This is what it really comes down to. I'm 100% convinced fans would have run Lidstrom out of town if he was an Oiler because he wasn't physical enough. Not saying Bouchard is or ever will be Lidstrom, but the point stands. D-men who aren't physical become whipping boys real quick. It's a shame that 63 games into his career a portion of the fanbase has the knives out already.
And player development does need to take place at the NHL level. Players arriving into the NHL are not finished products. How do you think cagey vets become cagey vets? By actually playing the roles they have the potential to and making/learning from their mistakes. It's a reality in the cap world that players on their ELC's need to play big roles on teams.
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Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| hitmen4 wrote on Thu, 03 February 2022 08:03 |
| Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 21:49 |
| watchman wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 17:46 |
...maybe BOUCH can't turn to his right?
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Have to say I'm plesantly surprised, an unexpected win!
Trying not to pick on Bouchard, but he served a hot pepperoni, extra-large pizza for the Caps first goal.. got the caps back in the game.. The guy is weak as a kitten on cycles, and puck retrievals.. loses one on one puck battles consistently.. gets turnstiled at least once or twice a game.. slow-twitch neurons.. He's over matched on the top D pairing.. defensive liability in general.. I was almost thinking Barrie should replace him to shore up the defensive game.. who's worse defensively?
Foegel proving why he was dropped to the 4th line, bad passes, bad decisions, no hands.
McDavid was absolutely flying.
Kane displaying his scoring touch, still out of shape.. 17 games to go (I figured it'll take 20 games to get in shape)
Kosko was OK.
Team in general still doesn't like to engage physically and finish checks.. which I find just freaking bizarre.
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What a joke of a take. Bouchard has played all of 63 NHL games and you're carving him up because he's not a first pairing guy yet? Of course he's going to have some defensive mistakes, and probably lots of them. He's essentially a rookie defenseman even if the weird NHL rules for what qualifies a rookie says he's not.
Bottom line is that Bouchard is still one of our best defenseman. In terms of defenseman, he's #1 on the team in points, goals, assists. 2nd in +/-. If you don't like the traditional counting stats, here are his fancies:
CF%: 54.88
XGF%: 54.15
SCF%: 52.28
HDCF%: 51.02
He's on the right side of 50% on all counts, despite his defensive errors. He's already an elite offensive defenseman.
To be honest his defensive game actually isn't that bad when you consider he plays over 21 minutes a night despite only playing 63 NHL games. Rookie defenseman, even the elite ones, just aren't that good defensively most of the time. Luckily for those guys is most of them don't have to deal with portions of their fan base that think every defenseman that's 6'-3 needs to be the second coming of Chris Pronger before they've even played a full season.
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Viewer bias plays such a big role on people's impressions of players - especially young defencemen. Mistakes near the net are more memorable than mistakes in the attacking zone, because they lead to great chances against and goals.
People forget that a defenceman playing over 20 minutes a game has a lot of plays and touches of the puck, and that if the vast majority of those are good ones (which often as unspectacular and unmemorable) then they're a net positive, even if there's one or two glaring errors.
Coaching staffs should be working with young players and video to try to reduce mistakes, but no one is ever going to play a perfect game. I mean, one of the most memorable Mario Lemieux goals has him absolutely undressing a veteran Ray Bourque, so everyone can still get beat for a goal or make the wrong play.
There's no question it would have been better if we could have played Bouchard more in the role that Barrie's had this year - sheltered minutes and PP time - and had someone else do the heavy lifting. But the team really needed a third line winger...
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...
2 Cups
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watchman
Messages: 1422
Registered: October 2019
Location: River City
1 Cup
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OIL trying to set team record for the number of shot attempts against in the last 60 seconds of a period. 
...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).
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g2k
Messages: 2841
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
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Did anyone else see the Rocky Wirtz town hall clip between periods?
I think that went really well. Good damage control Rocky.
EDIT: Oh yeah, is it Evanders shoulder or elbow?
#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
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Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
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Fack I hope Kane is okay after that hit.
Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty
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g2k
Messages: 2841
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
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| Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 19:03 |
Fack I hope Kane is okay after that hit.
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Thanks for the 2 tip in goals, Evander. Have a nice summer.
Please don’t sign in our division next season
#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
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Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
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| g2k wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 19:06 |
| Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 19:03 |
Fack I hope Kane is okay after that hit.
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Thanks for the 2 tip in goals, Evander. Have a nice summer.
Please don’t sign in our division next season
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HES ON THE ICE TO START THE THIRD!
He’s resigning with Edmonton yo
Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty
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g2k
Messages: 2841
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
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| Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 19:06 |
| g2k wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 19:06 |
| Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 19:03 |
Fack I hope Kane is okay after that hit.
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Thanks for the 2 tip in goals, Evander. Have a nice summer.
Please don’t sign in our division next season
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He’s resigning with Edmonton yo
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#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
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NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 1189
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI
1 Cup
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After the missed absolutely BLATANT trip on Hyman it was inevitable that the Caps were going to score there.
Edit: And there's the even-up non-call. Just call the rules man. It's not difficult.
[Updated on: Wed, 02 February 2022 19:16]
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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TNT broadcast said this backup tender Copley was the first star last time the Oilers played in Washington back in 2018. He hasn't appeared in an NHL game in 3 years.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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g2k
Messages: 2841
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
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Don’t be an idiotic fool Kass.
#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
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watchman
Messages: 1422
Registered: October 2019
Location: River City
1 Cup
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...just don't let it be Justin Schultz...
...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).
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Kr55
Messages: 10781
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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If only games were 5 minutes long when you need them to be
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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watchman
Messages: 1422
Registered: October 2019
Location: River City
1 Cup
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...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).
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watchman
Messages: 1422
Registered: October 2019
Location: River City
1 Cup
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| watchman wrote on Wed, 02 February 2022 19:35 |
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Good thing the PK is rolling on all cylinders...
...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).
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