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Oilers » Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48)

Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751619]	Tue, 14 January 2020 21:30

OilFans
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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751621 is a reply to message #751619 ]	Tue, 14 January 2020 21:37

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2419
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

The Preds suck, yay.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751622 is a reply to message #751619 ]	Tue, 14 January 2020 21:41

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751623 is a reply to message #751619 ]	Tue, 14 January 2020 21:51

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Back ahead of the flames and currently holding home ice in our round 1 series with them icon_cool

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751627 is a reply to message #751619 ]	Tue, 14 January 2020 22:23

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Love that winger Nuge. Glad the 2 line thing keeps working with Drai at C with the Nuge.

Missed the lacross goal until seeing replays. meh, getting old :)

Smith appears to be good again. Hope it keeps lasting.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751642 is a reply to message #751619 ]	Wed, 15 January 2020 11:21

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

I was at last night's game. Here's my thoughts:

- Our top players are really good.
- Archibald scoring again when placed on a line is another great reminder why we shouldn't overpay Kassian this summer. Playing with #97 has a direct correlation to your scoring output.
- Happy to see Smith win again, but man, he inspires zero confidence. Just a ton of chaos to his game. He makes even routine saves look difficult.
- I think one of the reasons people are more forgiving with Smith is because it looks like he battles so hard for every puck, and many hockey fans have a bias towards players who look like they work hard, whether they are effective or not. It's why there's people in Edmonton who much prefer a Russell to a Petry or a Hendricks to a Draisaitl. I am not a believer in chaotic goalies though...most of the time, that's because their positioning is not solid. The best goalies these days are the ones who look the most boring - they have good position and they rarely have to do acrobatics to make saves as a result.
- We still suck at empty nets, but at least we are starting to score on them. That was an adventure. Still not sure why Klefbom chose to ring the boards with the net empty...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751644 is a reply to message #751642 ]	Wed, 15 January 2020 11:35

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 11:21

I was at last night's game. Here's my thoughts:

many hockey fans have a bias towards players who look like they work hard, whether they are effective or not.

Agreed. Ryan Smyth was garbage.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751653 is a reply to message #751644 ]	Wed, 15 January 2020 13:22

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 12:35

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 11:21

I was at last night's game. Here's my thoughts:

many hockey fans have a bias towards players who look like they work hard, whether they are effective or not.

Agreed. Ryan Smyth was garbage.

Ha.

With the fanbase and media in this market, I think this may stem from the teams of really nobody’s that we had in the late 90’s early 00’s who were hard working, proud, unselfish players who battled for playoffs year in and year out in before we went through the ‘entitled’ era leading to and lending a hand throughout the DoD.

The fanbase and those in the media remember Ryan Smyth, Jason Smith, Marty Reasoner, Rem Murray, Dougy Weight, Todd Marchant blah blah blah and how those teams battled for a playoff spot. Yes, the dynasty team members are remembered as well, obviously, which then brings us to when we started to not ‘battle’ for the playoffs with the likes of Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Andrew Cogliano, Ladi Smid, Tom Gilbert blah blah blah. And when those teams weren’t winning, it was easy to remember those hard working teams who at least brought playoff races and playoff series to the city of Edmonton.

Also, those within the City of Edmonton are some of the hardest working people I’ve ever met in my life. May be a tad biased as the wife is from YEG, but I have friends from all over the country from school, work and general travel. So a fanbase that is hard working in their every day life is going to look for nothing less in their beloved Oilers.

My .02 anyway.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751698 is a reply to message #751644 ]	Wed, 15 January 2020 20:46

Gator21
Messages: 175
Registered: February 2016
Location: Kelowna, BC

No Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 11:35

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 11:21

I was at last night's game. Here's my thoughts:

many hockey fans have a bias towards players who look like they work hard, whether they are effective or not.

Agreed. Ryan Smyth was garbage.

Lol this is a joke right!? crazy

You’re a garbage poster if u actually believe this

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751699 is a reply to message #751698 ]	Wed, 15 January 2020 21:11

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Gator21 wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 21:46

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 11:35

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 11:21

I was at last night's game. Here's my thoughts:

many hockey fans have a bias towards players who look like they work hard, whether they are effective or not.

Agreed. Ryan Smyth was garbage.

Lol this is a joke right!? crazy

You’re a garbage poster if u actually believe this

Missed a perfect opportunity to say it was a rather crude remark...

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

Report message to a moderator

Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751710 is a reply to message #751698 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 06:39

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Gator21 wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 20:46

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 11:35

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 11:21

I was at last night's game. Here's my thoughts:

many hockey fans have a bias towards players who look like they work hard, whether they are effective or not.

Agreed. Ryan Smyth was garbage.

Lol this is a joke right!? crazy

You’re a garbage poster if u actually believe this

Mostly I was just trying to get a rise out of somebody. ;)

Mostly.

[Updated on: Thu, 16 January 2020 11:59]

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751738 is a reply to message #751698 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 11:51

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Gator21 wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 20:46

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 11:35

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 January 2020 11:21

I was at last night's game. Here's my thoughts:

many hockey fans have a bias towards players who look like they work hard, whether they are effective or not.

Agreed. Ryan Smyth was garbage.

Lol this is a joke right!? crazy

You’re a garbage poster if u actually believe this

You do have to admit, he was dramatically over-valued in Edmonton. I mean, he was a good player, but if he played on the Oilers in the 1980s, he's a third liner on those teams.

The funny thing is that he was never the best player on the Oilers in his time here, but he's still remembered as more of a hero than the guys who were the best players over those years. The media here loved him and knew his family and always gave him friendly press. While Smyth himself isn't particularly clever, I do think that his wife was pretty savvy and tried to keep him in the public eye as much as possible - if he went to visit an old lady turning 100, there was always going to be a film crew capturing it as she ran her hands through his flowing locks. And then he just seemed to try hard, which is all you need to do to be loved in Edmonton - it should really be about results, but for some reason, if you lead the team in scoring but don't look like you're pumping your legs hard every shift (Penner) or Rishaug and Spector publicly question you not staying out to dick around after practice (Hemsky) or you get carved by Kevin Lowe for getting paid bonus money that you earned by hitting targets (Comrie) then you're remembered much less fondly. It's still baffling why there's people out there who'd sooner honour Ryan Smyth than Doug Weight - who was the much better Oiler...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751742 is a reply to message #751738 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 12:39

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I liked Ryan Smyth. I am not sure a player worked as hard or got as much out of himself than Smyth but he was a bit over-hyped by Edmonton fans. If Ryan Smyth is your best player, then your team probably isn't that good which during his prime years, they weren't.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751743 is a reply to message #751738 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 12:47

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 10:51

We've had this discussion time and time again. And here I am, biting again.

Quote:

You do have to admit, he was dramatically over-valued in Edmonton. I mean, he was a good player, but if he played on the Oilers in the 1980s, he's a third liner on those teams.

This is a strange, strange way of evaluating players. And I am sure you know that. John Tavares would be a 3rd line center on that team too.

I wasn't alive during the 80's. Not one minute of it. I was not alive during the literally greatest hockey team ever assembled (it's on a banner at Rogers, so it's official). I don't think what they accomplished should be influencing any standards during our lifetimes. Can't we let another generation enjoy something without bringing up how good that old team was?

Let's get to Smyth though.

Smyth lead the team in goal scoring seven times. He is tied with Gretzky for that Oiler's honor. Goal scoring was his thing. Nobody is saying he is better than Gretzky, or Weight...but come on. It's pretty easy to see that he was an important player for the Oilers for a long time. We aren't over-dramatizing anything. He lead the team many times in the category that wins you games. Those are stats. Not media bites, not community heroism or whatever.

I've always described Smyth as the guy with the highest goals to talent ratio. Lot's of goals, little talent. He had poor to average ability in all the main areas...shooting, skating, stickhandling. But he still got results. He did it by standing in front of the net during an era where Adam Foote could hack, wack, and crosscheck your spinal cord over and over again. He may have never been the best player during any era of the Oilers (always 2nd best) but he was the best goal scorer for about a decade. That is worth talking about.

I think we can take some lessons from HOW he got his results. You can still get results without being the best. It might be the harder path, you might have to get dirtier, but the results can come if you stick to it. Now are we talking about heroism and philosophical ideas, stuff the media might love? Yes. Maybe there is some truth to it. Just because it makes a good story, doesn't mean we should disregard everything. I think Ryan Smyth did work pretty darn hard to continually be the leading goal scorer.

He is the best scorer the team has ever had post-dynasty until McDavid and Draisaitl. Taylor Hall never hit 30 as an Oiler. Eberle got 34 once. I don't know who else is even worth talking about other than that. What he did for Edmonton year over year is worth something to fans. A lot more than you may like. Let us enjoy the memories. People my age don't have 5 Stanley Cups and 50 in 39 and Petr Klima's overtime. We have Chris Pronger ditching town, Doug Weight being worth too much, Dany Heatley vetoing trades to Edmonton, weird trades for Brian Leetch, and Ryan Smyth scoring goals. Let us enjoy it.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751749 is a reply to message #751743 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 13:07

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 12:47

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 10:51

We've had this discussion time and time again. And here I am, biting again.

Quote:

You do have to admit, he was dramatically over-valued in Edmonton. I mean, he was a good player, but if he played on the Oilers in the 1980s, he's a third liner on those teams.

I'm not saying Smyth wasn't an important player or that he wasn't a good player. He was both of those things.

He's just not someone who's name should ever be mentioned in discussions about retiring numbers, or the greatest Oilers and he's over-rated by Edmonton fans because those years were so lean, and he was a lunch bucket guy who was one of our better players.

As for goals to points ratio, yes, pretty decent - although he's no Ciccarelli or Andreychuk who played the same role for other teams and were much better at it. Luc Robitaille is probably the best points/goals to talent player in the league's history.

I also think he's one of those players who showed how little he bled team colours - despite all the press to the contrary. He held out on every deal and then complained that he took hometown discounts, and on the last negotiation, he refused to give an inch leading to his trade away. When he came back, he pouted on the rare occasions he was sat, despite pretty mediocre results, and mused about what role he thought he should be playing. His entourage then pushed post-career for him to get a role with the organization, commenting on stories created by Jim Matheson. I think a lot of that is his wife and family involvement - but it definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth - especially when they finally DID give him a role, he didn't really want to do it.

All that said - you are right. He was an important part of the team for a long time and he was a good player. I don't think any criticism is meant to take away from that.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751760 is a reply to message #751749 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 13:32

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Regarding contracts, I don't really place any blame on anyone.

I think it's important to get paid what you are worth. In those years, Edmonton was in a scenario where:

1) Smyth wanted to play in Edmonton AND have some financial security
2) Edmonton was not in any position to hand out dollars

Under those conditions, it makes sense that the contracts took a long time to hash out. They got done. That is all that matters to me. Except for one time.

Smyth wanted 5.5M a year, Oilers would only go to 5.4M and thus he would move on to Colorado for 6.25M AAV in the summer. I'd venture to say that he was willing to give a discount from market value (he left 3.75M on the table the Oilers signed his ask of 5.5Mx5). It just wasn't enough for Kevin Lowe. And that's fine. It was a terrible terrible day for me as a kid, but sometimes two sides just can't come together at a moment in time.

I tend not to think less of any player for trying to get the most they can. I don't think less of Drew Doughty for negotiating without an agent. I don't think less of Mitch Marner for squeezing every dollar he could out of Toronto, or Nylander for holding out during the season. Your hockey career has a shelf life. One that could be ended at any time by a major injury or whatever. Get what you can while you can. It's up to the team to convince you otherwise.

Regarding his roles and attitudes. I don't know what to say really. We are human beings. We react with emotions often. He cried at the airport more than any athlete I have ever seen...he is clearly a pretty sensitive guy. I'm not going to let a few quotes about being scratched get in the way of what I witnessed on the ice. Worth noting that Ryan Whitney also complained about Ralph Krueger basically telling him that he wasn't going to move up the lineup no matter what. Maybe Smyth had similar feelings but less articulate? I don't know, I don't want to go too deep into that.

#RETIRE94

Clean house or bust

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751773 is a reply to message #751760 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 15:26

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:32

I prefer doug weight. look at Smyth's production drop-off in 1998-99 when Weight only played 43 games. Then Weight leaves and the two years before Hemsky arrives there's a big drop off too.

But I understand, if your name is Smyth260, you're gonna lean towards 94.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751778 is a reply to message #751773 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 16:41

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 15:26

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:32

To me, the appeal of Smyth was all about his love of hockey and work ethic. His production may have gone up and down, but regardless, the dude was still giving his all. The quality of linemates shifted for sure over his years. He still managed 61 points in 66 games with our 2nd highest scorer being Todd Marchant.

And I enjoy giving him a pass about the contract stuff. Lowe is an abrasive a-hole. Smyth is a simple dude that probably put complete trust in his agent. Who knows how those talks could have broken down with Lowe's spite and Smyth getting questionable advice. It's a shame, but, if it did happen the way it did, we may not have got a lot of pieces for Rebuild #1 :) What a shame that would have been.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751779 is a reply to message #751773 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 16:55

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Trevor Linden has his number retired in Vancouver, and rightfully so. Him and Smyth have very very similar numbers. Linden and Smyth have similar stories (drafted, left, came back, retired). Him and Smyth will never be in the Hall of Fame.

It would be a no brainer if this was any other city. But this is Edmonton, where we really only get to appreciate one era of players until you are absolutely sick of it.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751781 is a reply to message #751760 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 17:03

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:32

I tend to agree that it's the player's prerogative if they're going to try to get every dollar they can out of their career. I just don't really love it when they're arguing to the press that they've taken big discounts their whole career when there isn't a lot of evidence that was the case.

Yes, I guess he did get an extra $$750K per year by going all the way to UFA...so fair enough - they were asking for a 15% discount off full UFA price. A) That's probably a standard discount, not an Edmonton-related one and B) it's hard to suggest #94 was full value for the money for his deal - in hindsight, that looks like a serious overpay, especially in the last couple years (the last of which Edmonton ended up paying for anyhow).

Whitney did complain about Krueger, but not during that season. It was later, after he had left that he fired off about that. Smyth made a whole production of it when he was sat the first time.

But I think we're mostly on the same page - he was good, but not a star, and rarely if ever the best player on the Oilers. Apparently we're only in disagreement about whether you should put lunch bucket guys up alongside Hall of Famers in the number retirement racket. I think that's for franchises without any real history to do. The Oilers did it once, putting Hamilton to the rafters...that's probably enough for the non-stars. We don't need a Trevor Linden-type retirement. If we start doing that, it's only a matter of time until we retire #7 (again) for the fans.

On a related note, that "best team ever" banner is horrible. I hate that a fan ballot led to us raising something to the roof. The proof of their status as a great team is in all the other banners they contributed to the building. It cheapens those to put something that inane up.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751789 is a reply to message #751781 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 19:44

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 17:03

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:32

I still remember the 100 straight sell outs banner they left up long after the owner started buying tickets.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751792 is a reply to message #751781 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 20:32

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 17:03

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:32

Maybe we need to mix it up a bit to be able to honour some of our greats that can't live up to the impossible standards of the glory days. A board with individual awards.

Hardest Tryer: Ryan Smyth
Best at Winning: Kevin Lowe
Boldest: Craig MacTavish

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751803 is a reply to message #751792 ]	Fri, 17 January 2020 09:29

Adam
Messages: 7177
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 20:32

Adam wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 17:03

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 16 January 2020 13:32

Stick-to-it-ness: Kelly Buchberger - who else would last through than many different head coach changes?
Ability to do the Least with the Most Title: Bob Nicholson - amazing to accomplish so little despite the fanciest title, and really amazing to just get the title while doing practically nothing before or after.
Ability to save face: Daryl Katz (too soon?)

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751804 is a reply to message #751803 ]	Fri, 17 January 2020 09:58

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 17 January 2020 09:29

Ability to save face: Daryl Katz (too soon?)

https://media3.giphy.com/media/PE84d6p5ry3zW/giphy.gif

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Nashville @ Edmonton (Game #48) [message #751780 is a reply to message #751619 ]	Thu, 16 January 2020 16:57

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

dang it. We gave reason for yet another Nashville banner raising, in the fine tradition started by the Canucks for raising banners for any reason just for the sake of having some banners.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nhl/comments/ep1dpv/raise_another_o ne/

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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