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Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745459]	Thu, 24 October 2019 03:00

OilFans
Messages: 1559
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

3

4 Final (OT)

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Edmonton to win:	0%
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2019-20 Regular Season
Thursday, October 24, 2019 Washington 3 @ Edmonton 4 (OT) Win
Monday, March 16, 2020 Edmonton @ Washington
Home Record: 1-0-0 Road Record: 0-0-0 Overall Record: 1-0-0
Home / Road Goals For: 4/0 Total: 4
Home / Road Goals Against: 3/0 Total: 3

2018-19 Regular Season
Thursday, October 25, 2018 Washington 1 @ Edmonton 4 Win
Monday, November 5, 2018 Edmonton 2 @ Washington 4 Loss
Home Record: 1-0-0 Road Record: 0-1-0 Overall Record: 1-1-0
Home / Road Goals For: 4/2 Total: 6
Home / Road Goals Against: 1/4 Total: 5

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745464 is a reply to message #745459 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 08:18

WhoreableGuy
Messages: 592
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

No Cups

Win, and the Oilers are 8-2-1.

Lose, and the fanbase will implode.

MUST WIN.

"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745465 is a reply to message #745464 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 08:51

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

WhoreableGuy wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 08:18

Win, and the Oilers are 8-2-1.

Lose, and the fanbase will implode.

MUST WIN.

Show up. Show us that you’re not the same Oilers team we’ve witnessed the past (insert subjective number here) years. Do this for the fans. Do this for Tipps. Do this for yourself. For the love of all things holy... show up.

VICTORY IS IDEAL

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745466 is a reply to message #745465 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 09:00

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Let's have one of those games where the superstars trade hat tricks followed by some 3 on 3 OT.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745609 is a reply to message #745466 ]	Fri, 25 October 2019 08:04

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 09:00

Let's have one of those games where the superstars trade hat tricks followed by some 3 on 3 OT.

I was close here

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745644 is a reply to message #745609 ]	Fri, 25 October 2019 11:54

Ragnarok73
Messages: 2419
Registered: February 2011

2 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 25 October 2019 08:04

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 09:00

Let's have one of those games where the superstars trade hat tricks followed by some 3 on 3 OT.

I was close here

My stomach and liver are both thankful that you were wrong.

"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745467 is a reply to message #745465 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 09:12

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 08:51

WhoreableGuy wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 08:18

Win, and the Oilers are 8-2-1.

Lose, and the fanbase will implode.

MUST WIN.

Show up. Show us that you’re not the same Oilers team we’ve witnessed the past (insert subjective number here) years. Do this for the fans. Do this for Tipps. Do this for yourself. For the love of all things holy... show up.

VICTORY IS IDEAL

It's not subjective. Since 2000 when Kevin Lowe was named General Manager.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745470 is a reply to message #745467 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 09:54

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

A step up in weight class tonight. The Oilers were brutal last game against a bad team which was their usual MO from years past. They usually like to play their crappiest against teams they should beat. Hopefully that means they will play a good game as usually they do against the better teams.

Bottom 6 needs to get going. Maybe we will see Gagner inserted for some offense but at the end of the day, if the best players don't play well, no team wins very often. McDavid and Leon were crappy last game and shockinglg, McDavid is sort of in a slump. So hopefully they will be a lot better. Neal was pretty quiet last game. I know Nuge basically walks on water in Oilerville but he hasn't been very good at all this season in my opinion. On paper, 6 points in 10 games is OK second line production as that's a modest 50 pt pace but looking at his numbers, 4 of his points are on the PP riding the coat tails of McDavid and Leon. 1 goal in 10 games sucks quite frankly.

The bottom 6 needs to chip in but in my opinion, the second line which goes through Nuge is not pulling their weight. Maybe my expectations of Nuge are just too high. When he was drafted, he was touted as the next Datsyuk. Great on the PP, really good 5 on 5, good defensively. But then you look at him. Going into his 9tth season. Looks like last season was an outlier because he played until mid November with McDavid which spiked his points a bit as he was a point a game guy with McDavid. He's on pace for another around 50 pt season which is OK, not spectacular second line production.

[Updated on: Thu, 24 October 2019 10:07]

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745480 is a reply to message #745470 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 10:59

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Oilers lines for tonight:
Draisaitl- McDavid - Kassian
Neal - Nuge - Chiasson
Khaira- Sheahan- Archibald
P.Russell - Granlund - Gagner

Jurco is out which is fine because he hasn't done much. But I wonder how much longer Khaira stays in. At some point, doesn't he need to do something? Every coach seems to have a player who they decide they like and are willing to die on a hill for.

I think Mac T had Pederson.
McLellen had Letestu.
Maybe Tippett has Khaira. Even Lowetide is bullish on Khaira. I just don't see it. Second year in a row the guy looks like he doesn't have a pulse on the ice.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745482 is a reply to message #745480 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 11:13

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 09:59

Oilers lines for tonight:
Draisaitl- McDavid - Kassian
Neal - Nuge - Chiasson
Khaira- Sheahan- Archibald
P.Russell - Granlund - Gagner

Jurco is out which is fine because he hasn't done much. But I wonder how much longer Khaira stays in. At some point, doesn't he need to do something? Every coach seems to have a player who they decide they like and are willing to die on a hill for.

I think Mac T had Pederson.
McLellen had Letestu.
Maybe Tippett has Khaira. Even Lowetide is bullish on Khaira. I just don't see it. Second year in a row the guy looks like he doesn't have a pulse on the ice.

In all fairness to RNH this year, he's had to drag Chiasson around for a good portion of the season. The holes in the bottom 6 are obvious, but it's not like the top 6 doesn't also have some significant depth issues.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745483 is a reply to message #745482 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 11:30

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Goose wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 09:59

Oilers lines for tonight:
Draisaitl- McDavid - Kassian
Neal - Nuge - Chiasson
Khaira- Sheahan- Archibald
P.Russell - Granlund - Gagner

Jurco is out which is fine because he hasn't done much. But I wonder how much longer Khaira stays in. At some point, doesn't he need to do something? Every coach seems to have a player who they decide they like and are willing to die on a hill for.

I think Mac T had Pederson.
McLellen had Letestu.
Maybe Tippett has Khaira. Even Lowetide is bullish on Khaira. I just don't see it. Second year in a row the guy looks like he doesn't have a pulse on the ice.

In all fairness to RNH this year, he's had to drag Chiasson around for a good portion of the season. The holes in the bottom 6 are obvious, but it's not like the top 6 doesn't also have some significant depth issues.

If I am not mistaken, this going to be only the 3rd game this year that Chiasson was on his line and last game Chiasson was on it for maybe 1/3 of the game?

Chiasson did score 22 goals last year. I know that was an outlier season for him and I don't think he will ever achieve that again but he still did it. On his other wing, he has a 10 time 20+ goal guy who up until recently was #1 in goals for the NHL this season. I think they need an upgrade on Chiasson but at the same time he's a decent NHLer and I don't know if you are going to get much better on your other wing than Neal. 10 straight 20 goal seasons is pretty freaking impressive. Even in the lock out season, he scored over 20. If the only way Nuge can put up good numbers is have a proven, elite level player on this line, then it's probably never going to happen. There is only so much money to go around. All that talk about Hall coming back is great and all, I don't see it happening money wise. That would mean you have McDavid, Leon, Hall on your team making over 30 mill. I think we are going to see how having all that money tied up in 3 guys will blow up in their face in T.O.

In my opinion, if Nuge can't produce with Neal on his wing, maybe it's time to stop blaming who Nuge plays with and start looking at Nuge because as I said, I am not sure you get a much better winger other than an extremely expensive superstar. Neal is a proven pure shooter who excels playing his off wing with a left handed center. What else does Nuge want?

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745486 is a reply to message #745483 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 11:51

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:30

Goose wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 09:59

Oilers lines for tonight:
Draisaitl- McDavid - Kassian
Neal - Nuge - Chiasson
Khaira- Sheahan- Archibald
P.Russell - Granlund - Gagner

Jurco is out which is fine because he hasn't done much. But I wonder how much longer Khaira stays in. At some point, doesn't he need to do something? Every coach seems to have a player who they decide they like and are willing to die on a hill for.

I think Mac T had Pederson.
McLellen had Letestu.
Maybe Tippett has Khaira. Even Lowetide is bullish on Khaira. I just don't see it. Second year in a row the guy looks like he doesn't have a pulse on the ice.

In all fairness to RNH this year, he's had to drag Chiasson around for a good portion of the season. The holes in the bottom 6 are obvious, but it's not like the top 6 doesn't also have some significant depth issues.

If I am not mistaken, this going to be only the 3rd game this year that Chiasson was on his line and last game Chiasson was on it for maybe 1/3 of the game?

Chiasson did score 22 goals last year. I know that was an outlier season for him and I don't think he will ever achieve that again but he still did it. On his other wing, he has a 10 time 20+ goal guy who up until recently was #1 in goals for the NHL this season. I think they need an upgrade on Chiasson but at the same time he's a decent NHLer and I don't know if you are going to get much better on your other wing than Neal. 10 straight 20 goal seasons is pretty freaking impressive. Even in the lock out season, he scored over 20. If the only way Nuge can put up good numbers is have a proven, elite level player on this line, then it's probably never going to happen. There is only so much money to go around. All that talk about Hall coming back is great and all, I don't see it happening money wise. That would mean you have McDavid, Leon, Hall on your team making over 30 mill. I think we are going to see how having all that money tied up in 3 guys will blow up in their face in T.O.

In my opinion, if Nuge can't produce with Neal on his wing, maybe it's time to stop blaming who Nuge plays with and start looking at Nuge because as I said, I am not sure you get a much better winger other than an extremely expensive superstar. Neal is a proven pure shooter who excels playing his off wing with a left handed center. What else does Nuge want?

Neal hasn't done a lot at even strength so far, and neither Neal nor Chiasson is a great puck distributor, so they aren't giving Nuge a lot to work with. That whole second line has to be a lot better.

For Nuge, one of the biggest differences is shot rate. He's way down year over year. He needs more shots than he's taking - and he needs shots at even strength.

They have a bit of a disadvantage, in that McDavid & Draisaitl get the bulk of O-Zone starts, while they're doing more heavy lifting and have to push the play by a couple zones many times, but they still need to be better there.

I don't think it's the time for "I used to be a real Nuge booster, but..." speeches yet though. He has SOME offence, which is better than can be said for the bottom six. I do think his wings could use a real upgrade.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745487 is a reply to message #745486 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 12:00

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:30

Goose wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 09:59

Oilers lines for tonight:
Draisaitl- McDavid - Kassian
Neal - Nuge - Chiasson
Khaira- Sheahan- Archibald
P.Russell - Granlund - Gagner

Jurco is out which is fine because he hasn't done much. But I wonder how much longer Khaira stays in. At some point, doesn't he need to do something? Every coach seems to have a player who they decide they like and are willing to die on a hill for.

I think Mac T had Pederson.
McLellen had Letestu.
Maybe Tippett has Khaira. Even Lowetide is bullish on Khaira. I just don't see it. Second year in a row the guy looks like he doesn't have a pulse on the ice.

In all fairness to RNH this year, he's had to drag Chiasson around for a good portion of the season. The holes in the bottom 6 are obvious, but it's not like the top 6 doesn't also have some significant depth issues.

If I am not mistaken, this going to be only the 3rd game this year that Chiasson was on his line and last game Chiasson was on it for maybe 1/3 of the game?

Chiasson did score 22 goals last year. I know that was an outlier season for him and I don't think he will ever achieve that again but he still did it. On his other wing, he has a 10 time 20+ goal guy who up until recently was #1 in goals for the NHL this season. I think they need an upgrade on Chiasson but at the same time he's a decent NHLer and I don't know if you are going to get much better on your other wing than Neal. 10 straight 20 goal seasons is pretty freaking impressive. Even in the lock out season, he scored over 20. If the only way Nuge can put up good numbers is have a proven, elite level player on this line, then it's probably never going to happen. There is only so much money to go around. All that talk about Hall coming back is great and all, I don't see it happening money wise. That would mean you have McDavid, Leon, Hall on your team making over 30 mill. I think we are going to see how having all that money tied up in 3 guys will blow up in their face in T.O.

In my opinion, if Nuge can't produce with Neal on his wing, maybe it's time to stop blaming who Nuge plays with and start looking at Nuge because as I said, I am not sure you get a much better winger other than an extremely expensive superstar. Neal is a proven pure shooter who excels playing his off wing with a left handed center. What else does Nuge want?

Neal hasn't done a lot at even strength so far, and neither Neal nor Chiasson is a great puck distributor, so they aren't giving Nuge a lot to work with. That whole second line has to be a lot better.

For Nuge, one of the biggest differences is shot rate. He's way down year over year. He needs more shots than he's taking - and he needs shots at even strength.

They have a bit of a disadvantage, in that McDavid & Draisaitl get the bulk of O-Zone starts, while they're doing more heavy lifting and have to push the play by a couple zones many times, but they still need to be better there.

I don't think it's the time for "I used to be a real Nuge booster, but..." speeches yet though. He has SOME offence, which is better than can be said for the bottom six. I do think his wings could use a real upgrade.

I completely agree that they could use an upgrade on Chiasson but you don't think Neal is a second line winger? As I said, he's got 10 - 20+ goal seasons. Nuge's boy Eberle doesn't have that. Even when he had Hall AND Eberle on his wing, the best he could muster was 56 pts. Who is this mythical winger for Nuge?

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745489 is a reply to message #745487 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 12:06

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:00

Adam wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:30

Goose wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 11:13

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 09:59

Oilers lines for tonight:
Draisaitl- McDavid - Kassian
Neal - Nuge - Chiasson
Khaira- Sheahan- Archibald
P.Russell - Granlund - Gagner

Jurco is out which is fine because he hasn't done much. But I wonder how much longer Khaira stays in. At some point, doesn't he need to do something? Every coach seems to have a player who they decide they like and are willing to die on a hill for.

I think Mac T had Pederson.
McLellen had Letestu.
Maybe Tippett has Khaira. Even Lowetide is bullish on Khaira. I just don't see it. Second year in a row the guy looks like he doesn't have a pulse on the ice.

In all fairness to RNH this year, he's had to drag Chiasson around for a good portion of the season. The holes in the bottom 6 are obvious, but it's not like the top 6 doesn't also have some significant depth issues.

If I am not mistaken, this going to be only the 3rd game this year that Chiasson was on his line and last game Chiasson was on it for maybe 1/3 of the game?

Chiasson did score 22 goals last year. I know that was an outlier season for him and I don't think he will ever achieve that again but he still did it. On his other wing, he has a 10 time 20+ goal guy who up until recently was #1 in goals for the NHL this season. I think they need an upgrade on Chiasson but at the same time he's a decent NHLer and I don't know if you are going to get much better on your other wing than Neal. 10 straight 20 goal seasons is pretty freaking impressive. Even in the lock out season, he scored over 20. If the only way Nuge can put up good numbers is have a proven, elite level player on this line, then it's probably never going to happen. There is only so much money to go around. All that talk about Hall coming back is great and all, I don't see it happening money wise. That would mean you have McDavid, Leon, Hall on your team making over 30 mill. I think we are going to see how having all that money tied up in 3 guys will blow up in their face in T.O.

In my opinion, if Nuge can't produce with Neal on his wing, maybe it's time to stop blaming who Nuge plays with and start looking at Nuge because as I said, I am not sure you get a much better winger other than an extremely expensive superstar. Neal is a proven pure shooter who excels playing his off wing with a left handed center. What else does Nuge want?

Neal hasn't done a lot at even strength so far, and neither Neal nor Chiasson is a great puck distributor, so they aren't giving Nuge a lot to work with. That whole second line has to be a lot better.

For Nuge, one of the biggest differences is shot rate. He's way down year over year. He needs more shots than he's taking - and he needs shots at even strength.

They have a bit of a disadvantage, in that McDavid & Draisaitl get the bulk of O-Zone starts, while they're doing more heavy lifting and have to push the play by a couple zones many times, but they still need to be better there.

I don't think it's the time for "I used to be a real Nuge booster, but..." speeches yet though. He has SOME offence, which is better than can be said for the bottom six. I do think his wings could use a real upgrade.

I completely agree that they could use an upgrade on Chiasson but you don't think Neal is a second line winger? As I said, he's got 10 - 20+ goal seasons. Nuge's boy Eberle doesn't have that. Even when he had Hall AND Eberle on his wing, the best he could muster was 56 pts. Who is this mythical winger for Nuge?

I think Neal is getting older. He's not the worst option possible, but there's definitely lots better than him and so far he's done little at even strength. He's looking right now like a good third line winger who gets PP time.

The Oilers don't have that luxury, because their forward corps is so weak. Kassian has produced, but he really isn't an ideal first line right winger either.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745491 is a reply to message #745487 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 12:12

JPro
Messages: 810
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:00

I completely agree that they could use an upgrade on Chiasson but you don't think Neal is a second line winger? As I said, he's got 10 - 20+ goal seasons. Nuge's boy Eberle doesn't have that. Even when he had Hall AND Eberle on his wing, the best he could muster was 56 pts. Who is this mythical winger for Nuge?

Neal was traded for Milan Lucic. I don't care how many 10+ goals he has had in the past, Neal is a straight up has-been. His good start was fun, but let's not hang our judgement on Nuge based off a guy that Calgary is still happy to be rid of despite having Lucic in return.

Playing second line to a team that has McDavid and Drai on the top line is a lot different than playing second line on most other teams given how our top line is going to be given more opportunities (such as playing 26 minutes a night!). Between mediocre linemates and the primo chances going to the top line, I'm not ready to stick it to Nuge yet. I'd reevaluate at Xmas.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745495 is a reply to message #745491 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 13:47

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

JPro wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:00

I completely agree that they could use an upgrade on Chiasson but you don't think Neal is a second line winger? As I said, he's got 10 - 20+ goal seasons. Nuge's boy Eberle doesn't have that. Even when he had Hall AND Eberle on his wing, the best he could muster was 56 pts. Who is this mythical winger for Nuge?

Neal was traded for Milan Lucic. I don't care how many 10+ goals he has had in the past, Neal is a straight up has-been. His good start was fun, but let's not hang our judgement on Nuge based off a guy that Calgary is still happy to be rid of despite having Lucic in return.

Playing second line to a team that has McDavid and Drai on the top line is a lot different than playing second line on most other teams given how our top line is going to be given more opportunities (such as playing 26 minutes a night!). Between mediocre linemates and the primo chances going to the top line, I'm not ready to stick it to Nuge yet. I'd reevaluate at Xmas.

As I said. For a good chunk of his career, Nuge had Eberle AND Hall on his wing and all he could muster was 56 pts. Hall was an all star and won an MVP. Those were 2 pretty damn good wingers and all he could put up was second line center numbers. Who are the Oilers supposed to get, Kucherov before Nuge can score at a decent rate?

I know this is me basically swearing but has it crossed anyone's mind that Nuge just isn't that good? I watched him in junior, I am a fan of his but at some point in my opinion, people need to realize that Nuge is nothing more than an OK 2nd line center who is a bit of a complimentary player.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745496 is a reply to message #745495 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 14:14

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 13:47

JPro wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:00

I completely agree that they could use an upgrade on Chiasson but you don't think Neal is a second line winger? As I said, he's got 10 - 20+ goal seasons. Nuge's boy Eberle doesn't have that. Even when he had Hall AND Eberle on his wing, the best he could muster was 56 pts. Who is this mythical winger for Nuge?

Neal was traded for Milan Lucic. I don't care how many 10+ goals he has had in the past, Neal is a straight up has-been. His good start was fun, but let's not hang our judgement on Nuge based off a guy that Calgary is still happy to be rid of despite having Lucic in return.

Playing second line to a team that has McDavid and Drai on the top line is a lot different than playing second line on most other teams given how our top line is going to be given more opportunities (such as playing 26 minutes a night!). Between mediocre linemates and the primo chances going to the top line, I'm not ready to stick it to Nuge yet. I'd reevaluate at Xmas.

As I said. For a good chunk of his career, Nuge had Eberle AND Hall on his wing and all he could muster was 56 pts. Hall was an all star and won an MVP. Those were 2 pretty damn good wingers and all he could put up was second line center numbers. Who are the Oilers supposed to get, Kucherov before Nuge can score at a decent rate?

I know this is me basically swearing but has it crossed anyone's mind that Nuge just isn't that good? I watched him in junior, I am a fan of his but at some point in my opinion, people need to realize that Nuge is nothing more than an OK 2nd line center who is a bit of a complimentary player.

I specifically said it wasn't time for a "I used to be a big Nuge fan, but" speech!

Let's look at Nuge's career:

2011-12 - As a rookie, Nugent-Hopkins plays 62 games, scoring 52 points. That put him 33rd in scoring for centers according to NHL.com, although there's some issues with that since they included among others, Jordan Eberle as a center. On a points per game basis, Nuge was 19th in the league (although the 18 above him still includes Eberle and Phil Kessel). So in this year, he produced like a middle of the road first line center. Pretty solid for a rookie!

2012-13 - Lockout shortened season, and Nuge was playing injured all season because Oilers. He tallied 24 points in 40 games, for 0.60 points per game. That put him 59th in points among centers (w/ errors) and 56th for points per game. Assume there's a few mistakes in there and while an injured 19 year old, he's a middle of the road 2nd line center.

2013-14 - 56 points in 80 games (30th) for 0.70 PPG (39th). So high end second line center or low end first line center.

2014-15 - 56 points in 76 games (29th) for 0.74 PPG (32nd). Last year before McDavid, so last time he's getting the prime spot on the team. He's a low end first line center.

2015-16 - Injuries again shorten his season. 34 points in 55 games. Sample size is too low to really compare on total point production, but he's in 99th place. Points per game, he's at 0.62 good for a tie for 60th. So low end 2nd line center in a year where he's playing 2nd line C and injured.

2016-17 - 43 points in 82 games (72nd) for 0.52 PPG (89th). By far his worst year. If all the years looked like this one, you'd have a good argument that he's not a great second line center.

2017-18 - 48 points in 62 games (64th) for 0.77 PPG (42nd). By golly, that sure looks like a good 2nd line center.

2018-19 - 69 points in 82 games (36th) for 0.84 PPG (42nd). Most years he'd be higher on the list with that production, but lots of guys with good campaigns last year. Again, high end 2nd line center.

So what does that look like for his career? 388 points in 549 games (28th over that span among "centers") and 44th in points per game at 0.71. Again - points to one of the better 2nd line centers in the league, despite playing for the worst team in the league over that span with a succession of mostly bad coaches, and some pretty poor linemates at times - especially since McDavid arrived and got the prime time.

I'd like him to generate more at even strength this year, but let's not kid ourselves - he's still a pretty good player. So it's okay to STILL be a Nuge fan, with no buts.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745497 is a reply to message #745496 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 14:32

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 14:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 13:47

JPro wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:00

I completely agree that they could use an upgrade on Chiasson but you don't think Neal is a second line winger? As I said, he's got 10 - 20+ goal seasons. Nuge's boy Eberle doesn't have that. Even when he had Hall AND Eberle on his wing, the best he could muster was 56 pts. Who is this mythical winger for Nuge?

Neal was traded for Milan Lucic. I don't care how many 10+ goals he has had in the past, Neal is a straight up has-been. His good start was fun, but let's not hang our judgement on Nuge based off a guy that Calgary is still happy to be rid of despite having Lucic in return.

Playing second line to a team that has McDavid and Drai on the top line is a lot different than playing second line on most other teams given how our top line is going to be given more opportunities (such as playing 26 minutes a night!). Between mediocre linemates and the primo chances going to the top line, I'm not ready to stick it to Nuge yet. I'd reevaluate at Xmas.

As I said. For a good chunk of his career, Nuge had Eberle AND Hall on his wing and all he could muster was 56 pts. Hall was an all star and won an MVP. Those were 2 pretty damn good wingers and all he could put up was second line center numbers. Who are the Oilers supposed to get, Kucherov before Nuge can score at a decent rate?

I know this is me basically swearing but has it crossed anyone's mind that Nuge just isn't that good? I watched him in junior, I am a fan of his but at some point in my opinion, people need to realize that Nuge is nothing more than an OK 2nd line center who is a bit of a complimentary player.

I specifically said it wasn't time for a "I used to be a big Nuge fan, but" speech!

Let's look at Nuge's career:

2011-12 - As a rookie, Nugent-Hopkins plays 62 games, scoring 52 points. That put him 33rd in scoring for centers according to NHL.com, although there's some issues with that since they included among others, Jordan Eberle as a center. On a points per game basis, Nuge was 19th in the league (although the 18 above him still includes Eberle and Phil Kessel). So in this year, he produced like a middle of the road first line center. Pretty solid for a rookie!

2012-13 - Lockout shortened season, and Nuge was playing injured all season because Oilers. He tallied 24 points in 40 games, for 0.60 points per game. That put him 59th in points among centers (w/ errors) and 56th for points per game. Assume there's a few mistakes in there and while an injured 19 year old, he's a middle of the road 2nd line center.

2013-14 - 56 points in 80 games (30th) for 0.70 PPG (39th). So high end second line center or low end first line center.

2014-15 - 56 points in 76 games (29th) for 0.74 PPG (32nd). Last year before McDavid, so last time he's getting the prime spot on the team. He's a low end first line center.

2015-16 - Injuries again shorten his season. 34 points in 55 games. Sample size is too low to really compare on total point production, but he's in 99th place. Points per game, he's at 0.62 good for a tie for 60th. So low end 2nd line center in a year where he's playing 2nd line C and injured.

2016-17 - 43 points in 82 games (72nd) for 0.52 PPG (89th). By far his worst year. If all the years looked like this one, you'd have a good argument that he's not a great second line center.

2017-18 - 48 points in 62 games (64th) for 0.77 PPG (42nd). By golly, that sure looks like a good 2nd line center.

2018-19 - 69 points in 82 games (36th) for 0.84 PPG (42nd). Most years he'd be higher on the list with that production, but lots of guys with good campaigns last year. Again, high end 2nd line center.

So what does that look like for his career? 388 points in 549 games (28th over that span among "centers") and 44th in points per game at 0.71. Again - points to one of the better 2nd line centers in the league, despite playing for the worst team in the league over that span with a succession of mostly bad coaches, and some pretty poor linemates at times - especially since McDavid arrived and got the prime time.

I'd like him to generate more at even strength this year, but let's not kid ourselves - he's still a pretty good player. So it's okay to STILL be a Nuge fan, with no buts.

I am not throwing dirt on Nuge but the Oilers need more depth scoring behind the first line and he's part of the depth scoring. Especially when you take into consideration all the PP time, offensive zone time and flat out ice time he gets. He's over 19 mins a night. 1 goal in 10 games isn't good enough.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745500 is a reply to message #745496 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 15:45

overdue
Messages: 493
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Nuge has also been cast by past coaches as a two way center which means doing more of the dirty assignments and less glory time. I still think he's a very valuable player but if he was playing with one of the dynamic duo every night or players with more play making ability, his scoring numbers would be better. Would like to see him shoot more and take more chances in the offensive end.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745503 is a reply to message #745500 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 16:36

RDOilerfan
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Registered: January 2016

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overdue wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 15:45

Nuge has also been cast by past coaches as a two way center which means doing more of the dirty assignments and less glory time. I still think he's a very valuable player but if he was playing with one of the dynamic duo every night or players with more play making ability, his scoring numbers would be better. Would like to see him shoot more and take more chances in the offensive end.

The whole team needs to shoot more. Nuge included. The bottom 6 guys especially need to shoot. Put the puck to the goal, look for rebounds.

Tippett should be like the manager in the movie Major League. Start handing out sit ups and push up to all the bottom 6 guys every time they pass up a prime shot scoring chance to try a low percentage dangle or low percentage pass. These guys aren't McDavid, keep it simple. Shots and rebounds. You are a bottom 6 for a reason.

[Updated on: Thu, 24 October 2019 16:39]

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745508 is a reply to message #745500 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 17:02

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
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overdue wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 15:45

Nuge has also been cast by past coaches as a two way center which means doing more of the dirty assignments and less glory time. I still think he's a very valuable player but if he was playing with one of the dynamic duo every night or players with more play making ability, his scoring numbers would be better. Would like to see him shoot more and take more chances in the offensive end.

We've seen him take it to the middle with a move a couple times in recent games on the rush instead of the curl & pass, I'd like to see more of that. More shots as well, I'd like him up around 3 shots per game at minimum. I think as linemates go, you'd like a guy that can skate with him and wheel the puck a bit on the rush and another guy (Neal) who gets in position for a shot or can clean up the garbage. Essentially Chiasson is a guy like Neal but with much less ability.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745511 is a reply to message #745508 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 17:23

Adam
Messages: 7176
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 17:02

overdue wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 15:45

Nuge has also been cast by past coaches as a two way center which means doing more of the dirty assignments and less glory time. I still think he's a very valuable player but if he was playing with one of the dynamic duo every night or players with more play making ability, his scoring numbers would be better. Would like to see him shoot more and take more chances in the offensive end.

We've seen him take it to the middle with a move a couple times in recent games on the rush instead of the curl & pass, I'd like to see more of that. More shots as well, I'd like him up around 3 shots per game at minimum. I think as linemates go, you'd like a guy that can skate with him and wheel the puck a bit on the rush and another guy (Neal) who gets in position for a shot or can clean up the garbage. Essentially Chiasson is a guy like Neal but with much less ability.

Nuge is about 2.4 shots/game for his career, and was just over 2.5 shots/game last year.

The funny thing is that he could be at almost a point a game had a couple more bounces gone his way. He has 2 or 3 crossbars on the PP that were a whisker away from being goals and he's currently running at less than half his career shooting percentage (5.6% vs. 11.7%)

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745651 is a reply to message #745511 ]	Fri, 25 October 2019 12:27

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

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Adam wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 17:23

K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 17:02

overdue wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 15:45

Nuge has also been cast by past coaches as a two way center which means doing more of the dirty assignments and less glory time. I still think he's a very valuable player but if he was playing with one of the dynamic duo every night or players with more play making ability, his scoring numbers would be better. Would like to see him shoot more and take more chances in the offensive end.

We've seen him take it to the middle with a move a couple times in recent games on the rush instead of the curl & pass, I'd like to see more of that. More shots as well, I'd like him up around 3 shots per game at minimum. I think as linemates go, you'd like a guy that can skate with him and wheel the puck a bit on the rush and another guy (Neal) who gets in position for a shot or can clean up the garbage. Essentially Chiasson is a guy like Neal but with much less ability.

Nuge is about 2.4 shots/game for his career, and was just over 2.5 shots/game last year.

The funny thing is that he could be at almost a point a game had a couple more bounces gone his way. He has 2 or 3 crossbars on the PP that were a whisker away from being goals and he's currently running at less than half his career shooting percentage (5.6% vs. 11.7%)

Yeah last night he and Darnell both had backhands that went right into Holtby's glove. Nuge has had several posts (6 or so?) this season that don't register as shots and are misses when it comes down to it. The biggest difference with Nuge's line in the way it's constructed is that they're not going to be super-creative off the rush. So if you've got possession, as they've had, something's got to find it's way to the net front. They're looking to the D too much, and the D isn't getting it there. Sounds more simple than it is, though.

The whole team needs to generate more shots, should be $100/shot for guys who generate shots in scoring areas.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745507 is a reply to message #745496 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 16:55

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

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Adam wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 14:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 13:47

JPro wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:12

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 12:00

I completely agree that they could use an upgrade on Chiasson but you don't think Neal is a second line winger? As I said, he's got 10 - 20+ goal seasons. Nuge's boy Eberle doesn't have that. Even when he had Hall AND Eberle on his wing, the best he could muster was 56 pts. Who is this mythical winger for Nuge?

Neal was traded for Milan Lucic. I don't care how many 10+ goals he has had in the past, Neal is a straight up has-been. His good start was fun, but let's not hang our judgement on Nuge based off a guy that Calgary is still happy to be rid of despite having Lucic in return.

Playing second line to a team that has McDavid and Drai on the top line is a lot different than playing second line on most other teams given how our top line is going to be given more opportunities (such as playing 26 minutes a night!). Between mediocre linemates and the primo chances going to the top line, I'm not ready to stick it to Nuge yet. I'd reevaluate at Xmas.

As I said. For a good chunk of his career, Nuge had Eberle AND Hall on his wing and all he could muster was 56 pts. Hall was an all star and won an MVP. Those were 2 pretty damn good wingers and all he could put up was second line center numbers. Who are the Oilers supposed to get, Kucherov before Nuge can score at a decent rate?

I know this is me basically swearing but has it crossed anyone's mind that Nuge just isn't that good? I watched him in junior, I am a fan of his but at some point in my opinion, people need to realize that Nuge is nothing more than an OK 2nd line center who is a bit of a complimentary player.

I specifically said it wasn't time for a "I used to be a big Nuge fan, but" speech!

Let's look at Nuge's career:

2011-12 - As a rookie, Nugent-Hopkins plays 62 games, scoring 52 points. That put him 33rd in scoring for centers according to NHL.com, although there's some issues with that since they included among others, Jordan Eberle as a center. On a points per game basis, Nuge was 19th in the league (although the 18 above him still includes Eberle and Phil Kessel). So in this year, he produced like a middle of the road first line center. Pretty solid for a rookie!

2012-13 - Lockout shortened season, and Nuge was playing injured all season because Oilers. He tallied 24 points in 40 games, for 0.60 points per game. That put him 59th in points among centers (w/ errors) and 56th for points per game. Assume there's a few mistakes in there and while an injured 19 year old, he's a middle of the road 2nd line center.

2013-14 - 56 points in 80 games (30th) for 0.70 PPG (39th). So high end second line center or low end first line center.

2014-15 - 56 points in 76 games (29th) for 0.74 PPG (32nd). Last year before McDavid, so last time he's getting the prime spot on the team. He's a low end first line center.

2015-16 - Injuries again shorten his season. 34 points in 55 games. Sample size is too low to really compare on total point production, but he's in 99th place. Points per game, he's at 0.62 good for a tie for 60th. So low end 2nd line center in a year where he's playing 2nd line C and injured.

2016-17 - 43 points in 82 games (72nd) for 0.52 PPG (89th). By far his worst year. If all the years looked like this one, you'd have a good argument that he's not a great second line center.

2017-18 - 48 points in 62 games (64th) for 0.77 PPG (42nd). By golly, that sure looks like a good 2nd line center.

2018-19 - 69 points in 82 games (36th) for 0.84 PPG (42nd). Most years he'd be higher on the list with that production, but lots of guys with good campaigns last year. Again, high end 2nd line center.

So what does that look like for his career? 388 points in 549 games (28th over that span among "centers") and 44th in points per game at 0.71. Again - points to one of the better 2nd line centers in the league, despite playing for the worst team in the league over that span with a succession of mostly bad coaches, and some pretty poor linemates at times - especially since McDavid arrived and got the prime time.

I'd like him to generate more at even strength this year, but let's not kid ourselves - he's still a pretty good player. So it's okay to STILL be a Nuge fan, with no buts.

Good analysis, I'd be interested to know where there's a better 2nd line center to plug in there at that price point, that's not on an ELC.

I liked Jurco on that line better than Chaisson, to be honest, but that was just by eye. I'm not sure what the analytics were.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745517 is a reply to message #745507 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 19:01

PlusOne
Messages: 1594
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 16:55

Good analysis, I'd be interested to know where there's a better 2nd line center to plug in there at that price point, that's not on an ELC.

Nuge is what he is. A good but not great, two way center. As usual, there are some Oiler fans who will defend low skilled players because of intangibles, gritentisy and truculence. In the next sentance they will lay blame at the feet of higher skilled players if they arent superstars.

At this point RNH going 1st overall is irrelevant. It only means he was the highest rated 18 year old that year. He has turned into a pretty good player overall. His game has become pretty rounded and he is a fine complementary player.

Cherry picking stats to prove or disprove something about him is pretty easy. We could all find some to say he is great/terrible but for the money he is filling his assigned role just fine.

As is usually the case, some low hockey IQ fans will look to assign blame in odd ways while ignoring massive other problems on the team. It is a cop out though. Cant put too much blame on McDavid (and you shouldnt). Cant blame the players management brought in because they dont criticize GM's until they get fired. Cant blame the heart and soul guys, they try REAL hard!

Who's left? RNH, of course!

There are about a dozen flaws on this team right now before I even start to look at 2C.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745652 is a reply to message #745517 ]	Fri, 25 October 2019 12:32

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

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PlusOne wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 19:01

K.McC#24 wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 16:55

Good analysis, I'd be interested to know where there's a better 2nd line center to plug in there at that price point, that's not on an ELC.

Nuge is what he is. A good but not great, two way center. As usual, there are some Oiler fans who will defend low skilled players because of intangibles, gritentisy and truculence. In the next sentance they will lay blame at the feet of higher skilled players if they arent superstars.

At this point RNH going 1st overall is irrelevant. It only means he was the highest rated 18 year old that year. He has turned into a pretty good player overall. His game has become pretty rounded and he is a fine complementary player.

Cherry picking stats to prove or disprove something about him is pretty easy. We could all find some to say he is great/terrible but for the money he is filling his assigned role just fine.

As is usually the case, some low hockey IQ fans will look to assign blame in odd ways while ignoring massive other problems on the team. It is a cop out though. Cant put too much blame on McDavid (and you shouldnt). Cant blame the players management brought in because they dont criticize GM's until they get fired. Cant blame the heart and soul guys, they try REAL hard!

Who's left? RNH, of course!

There are about a dozen flaws on this team right now before I even start to look at 2C.

Yup, agree. There will be plenty of debate over Nuge next season when his contract is expiring. I hope they can sign him for a smallish increase, because they don't have anyone in the system on a cheaper deal who is going to step in and do what he does, and I just don't know who else is out there and available that's better.

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745498 is a reply to message #745459 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 14:40

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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By the end of the night you might see Gagner up with Nuge, Chaisson has boots of lead.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
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P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Pregame: Washington @ Edmonton (Game #11) [message #745499 is a reply to message #745498 ]	Thu, 24 October 2019 15:10

Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 24 October 2019 14:40

By the end of the night you might see Gagner up with Nuge, Chaisson has boots of lead.

I'm curious to see Gagner's game. He's scrappy when challenged. Remember when Pat Quinn started him on the 4th line?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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