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 Toronto - Hot take [message #830091]
Fri, 23 February 2024 10:10 Go to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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I was talking with a friend last night and we were posing 'crazy' trade scenarios. If Gretz can be traded... Pronger can come to Edm for a year and demand a trade.. Anybody can go at any time.

Here's the take for TO.

What will it take to push TO over the top? I think it's actually the trade of Austin Matthews.
If TO was to trade Matthews to... Winnipeg for Connor Hellebuyck and Kyle Connor (some other pieces would have to be shuffled for cap reasons, but these are the main parts), I think this would be a move that puts TO over the top and into the top tier cup favorites.

TO has scoring outside of Matthews, and gets some of his scoring replaced with Connor, but finally gets the true bonafide #1 starter that can carry them into a cup.

Winnipeg gets what they had hoped to have all those years ago from bringing in Laine. A true star goal scoring centerpiece to build around.

Do you think either side is truly 'losing' that trade? Would you do it if you were TO? Would you do it if you were Winnipeg? Why or why not?

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830093 is a reply to message #830091 ]
Fri, 23 February 2024 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 23 February 2024 10:10

I was talking with a friend last night and we were posing 'crazy' trade scenarios. If Gretz can be traded... Pronger can come to Edm for a year and demand a trade.. Anybody can go at any time.

Here's the take for TO.

What will it take to push TO over the top? I think it's actually the trade of Austin Matthews.
If TO was to trade Matthews to... Winnipeg for Connor Hellebuyck and Kyle Connor (some other pieces would have to be shuffled for cap reasons, but these are the main parts), I think this would be a move that puts TO over the top and into the top tier cup favorites.

TO has scoring outside of Matthews, and gets some of his scoring replaced with Connor, but finally gets the true bonafide #1 starter that can carry them into a cup.

Winnipeg gets what they had hoped to have all those years ago from bringing in Laine. A true star goal scoring centerpiece to build around.

Do you think either side is truly 'losing' that trade? Would you do it if you were TO? Would you do it if you were Winnipeg? Why or why not?

I don't think that trade works for either side.

He's probably top 5 in the NHL, no less than top 10. You can nit pick parts of his game compared to others who play center but as a pure player, he's top 10 for sure. So the Leafs lose one of the best players in the NHL. Generally when a team trades an elite of the elite player, unless the guy is old and used up, you lose the trade.

The Leafs lose their #1 center. Getting a true #1 center, a guy that actually ticks off all the boxes of a #1 center is hard to get. So team wise, that makes Tavares their #1 and he's not that anymore so they would have to go find another top 6 center as internally, they don't have one.

Plus, the biggest issues the Leafs have is their defense is brutal. So they bring in a goalie but their defense still isn't fixed.

For the Jets, they lose probably their best, most critical player in Hellebuyck. The Jets have a pretty decent team but if you look at when them, when they are really good, it's because Hellebuych is playing at vezina level. When he dips at all, even if he's just OK, they crumble. So if they trade him, they have to go get a goalie and who you getting to replace his level of play?

[Updated on: Fri, 23 February 2024 10:30]

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830132 is a reply to message #830093 ]
Fri, 23 February 2024 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oiltec is currently offline oiltec
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On another topic, I would love to know what percentage of Drai's goals come from his favorite position, the one he just scored from. Maybe Greeegor can give us all the answer on Monday.

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830142 is a reply to message #830132 ]
Fri, 23 February 2024 23:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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oiltec wrote on Fri, 23 February 2024 23:44


On another topic, I would love to know what percentage of Drai's goals come from his favorite position, the one he just scored from. Maybe Greeegor can give us all the answer on Monday.

I'd suspect a similar percentage to the number that Ovi & Stammer scored from the exact same spot just on the other side of the ice.

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830628 is a reply to message #830142 ]
Thu, 07 March 2024 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster is currently offline HamBlaster
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On that thought... I wonder how much work it would take to get Draisaitl into proper skating shape? The guy looks like a log out there. Opposing players don't even have to chase hard to catch up with him.

Lazy Leon. That might be my new nickname for him. Soooo lazyyy... faint

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830633 is a reply to message #830628 ]
Thu, 07 March 2024 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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HamBlaster wrote on Thu, 07 March 2024 19:47

On that thought... I wonder how much work it would take to get Draisaitl into proper skating shape? The guy looks like a log out there. Opposing players don't even have to chase hard to catch up with him.

Lazy Leon. That might be my new nickname for him. Soooo lazyyy... faint


I hate this take. It's just not accurate at all, but super predictable. People always say this of big guys with long strides.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830676 is a reply to message #830633 ]
Fri, 08 March 2024 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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Adam wrote on Thu, 07 March 2024 22:59

HamBlaster wrote on Thu, 07 March 2024 19:47

On that thought... I wonder how much work it would take to get Draisaitl into proper skating shape? The guy looks like a log out there. Opposing players don't even have to chase hard to catch up with him.

Lazy Leon. That might be my new nickname for him. Soooo lazyyy... faint


I hate this take. It's just not accurate at all, but super predictable. People always say this of big guys with long strides.


Yep, same stuff over and over.
Add in the bonus of blaming the top players for not being good enough and it's a double whammy.
Leon is one of the better, if not best passers in the league. Also one of the best puck protectors. Yet his feet arent moving at 15 strides per second so he is slow, lazy and out of shape.

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830678 is a reply to message #830633 ]
Fri, 08 March 2024 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NZ Oiler Fan is currently offline NZ Oiler Fan
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Adam wrote on Fri, 08 March 2024 00:59

HamBlaster wrote on Thu, 07 March 2024 19:47

On that thought... I wonder how much work it would take to get Draisaitl into proper skating shape? The guy looks like a log out there. Opposing players don't even have to chase hard to catch up with him.

Lazy Leon. That might be my new nickname for him. Soooo lazyyy... faint


I hate this take. It's just not accurate at all, but super predictable. People always say this of big guys with long strides.


When Leon decides he's cutting to the net, I don't care how good of a skater you are. You are NOT gonna stop him. He's deceptively fast when he wants to be. I just wish he'd show that determination a little more often rather than just saving it for the playoffs.

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830692 is a reply to message #830678 ]
Sat, 09 March 2024 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay is currently offline Jay
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NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2024 19:27

Adam wrote on Fri, 08 March 2024 00:59

HamBlaster wrote on Thu, 07 March 2024 19:47

On that thought... I wonder how much work it would take to get Draisaitl into proper skating shape? The guy looks like a log out there. Opposing players don't even have to chase hard to catch up with him.

Lazy Leon. That might be my new nickname for him. Soooo lazyyy... faint


I hate this take. It's just not accurate at all, but super predictable. People always say this of big guys with long strides.


When Leon decides he's cutting to the net, I don't care how good of a skater you are. You are NOT gonna stop him. He's deceptively fast when he wants to be. I just wish he'd show that determination a little more often rather than just saving it for the playoffs.

OR - he is one of the most dominant playoff performers ever. And he scores 50/100 every year and almost never misses time. It's unrealistic to expect that he will be at his absolute best every single game.

It's insane the way that 29 and 2 in particular get treated in this market by media and the segment of fans that repeat media narratives. Compare the narrative around these two compared to the non stop ball washing of other players who 'work hard'.

If 29 decides to bounce I can't say I'd blame the guy and it will be hilarious to watch the fallout and justifications about how they couldn't win with hiim.

"Initiative comes to thems that wait"

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830763 is a reply to message #830692 ]
Sat, 09 March 2024 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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Jay wrote on Sat, 09 March 2024 12:31

NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Fri, 08 March 2024 19:27

Adam wrote on Fri, 08 March 2024 00:59

HamBlaster wrote on Thu, 07 March 2024 19:47

On that thought... I wonder how much work it would take to get Draisaitl into proper skating shape? The guy looks like a log out there. Opposing players don't even have to chase hard to catch up with him.

Lazy Leon. That might be my new nickname for him. Soooo lazyyy... faint


I hate this take. It's just not accurate at all, but super predictable. People always say this of big guys with long strides.


When Leon decides he's cutting to the net, I don't care how good of a skater you are. You are NOT gonna stop him. He's deceptively fast when he wants to be. I just wish he'd show that determination a little more often rather than just saving it for the playoffs.

OR - he is one of the most dominant playoff performers ever. And he scores 50/100 every year and almost never misses time. It's unrealistic to expect that he will be at his absolute best every single game.

It's insane the way that 29 and 2 in particular get treated in this market by media and the segment of fans that repeat media narratives. Compare the narrative around these two compared to the non stop ball washing of other players who 'work hard'.

If 29 decides to bounce I can't say I'd blame the guy and it will be hilarious to watch the fallout and justifications about how they couldn't win with hiim.




Cheers to you sir, and not just for your fantastic avatar.
The worst thing about being an Oiler fan is listening to other fans complain about skilled players year after year. There are legit complaints about this team, from the owner down to the EBUG. No one is immune to criticism but the misplaced nit picking of players with irreplicable skill sets is tiresome.
I am old enough to remember the "glory years" but was a kid. No idea if the adults blamed Wayne, Mess and Anderson when things weren't perfect but since then it is a constant.
Every year, the best players get skewered while JAG's get ball washing, as you put it.
It drives me nuts (pun intended) to see it happen so predictably.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830783 is a reply to message #830633 ]
Sun, 10 March 2024 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster is currently offline HamBlaster
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LOLOL.

A guy can get a tonne of points and be a defensive liability. A guy can get a tonne of points and be lazy not because of his stride... but because you can literally watch him being lazy.

Getting a tonne of points does not automatically give a guy a free pass for letting down his teammates on defensive zone coverage. I'm not sure why it should.

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830804 is a reply to message #830783 ]
Sun, 10 March 2024 22:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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HamBlaster wrote on Sun, 10 March 2024 12:00

LOLOL.

A guy can get a tonne of points and be a defensive liability. A guy can get a tonne of points and be lazy not because of his stride... but because you can literally watch him being lazy.

Getting a tonne of points does not automatically give a guy a free pass for letting down his teammates on defensive zone coverage. I'm not sure why it should.


While you pose a strong argument in this discussion I think your eye test is failing.

Here are Draisaitl's skating stats from NHL Edge (all even strength)

Speed bursts 20-22 MPH; 157 NHL FWD AVG; 58
That puts him in the 95th percentile
18-20 MPH; 466 AVG; 244
Good for the 95th percentile

Seems he is pretty quick, and uses that speed more that most. Perhaps his long strides are deceiving.

He is also in the 90th percentile for total distance skated this season.

Off zone percentage time spent; 93th percentile
Def zone time spent; 89th percentile.

Too many fancy stats?
5V5 he is plus 20 58GF and 38GA. Any form of +/- isnt perfect but it seems to indicate he isn't a defensive liability, as you stated.
He has 43 points on those 58 GF. That makes me think he is a pretty important part of that scoring and not a passenger.
Of the 6 forwards with the most ice time only Foegele has less GA with 36 and he has played about 200 less minutes.

Seems like he does a pretty good job of contributing to scoring while preventing goals against.

I know, I know; nerds with spreadsheets cant prove a player is good when the time honored eye test tells you Draisaitl is slow, has no effort, is out of shape, etc etc etc.
What do I know, perhaps the eye test and LOLOL is all the proof we need that you have been right all along.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830821 is a reply to message #830804 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster is currently offline HamBlaster
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I've never said he was a passenger, offensively. I know he contributes enormously offensively. That's not the problem. Honestly, I acknowledge that Draisaitl is a hell of a player (in particular when he's playing inspired hockey), however my frustration with him is probably rooted more so in seeing how high of a ceiling he has and knowing (by watching him play) that he could be so much more.

Perhaps I'm off-base with my thoughts, but I don't think the fancy stats are going to fix the numerous times a game where I see him wayyy behind the play on a backcheck, or slowly making his way to the bench for a line change, reaching when he should be moving his legs... etc.

I like Drai. I wear his jersey to games. Maybe he just teases us with warlord Drai at times and you begin to expect that's the way he can play and should play.

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830823 is a reply to message #830091 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Draisaitl has worn the lazy moniker since he was 16 years old with the Prince Albert Raiders. I agree with the deceiving long strides, but I find people forget the plays he drives multiple times a game with someone on his back and tend to focus on his half hearted line changes that are caught on camera. That, or his lack of enthusiasm.

A grimace in Germany is a smile in North America.

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830825 is a reply to message #830821 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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HamBlaster wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 09:28

I've never said he was a passenger, offensively. I know he contributes enormously offensively. That's not the problem. Honestly, I acknowledge that Draisaitl is a hell of a player (in particular when he's playing inspired hockey), however my frustration with him is probably rooted more so in seeing how high of a ceiling he has and knowing (by watching him play) that he could be so much more.

Perhaps I'm off-base with my thoughts, but I don't think the fancy stats are going to fix the numerous times a game where I see him wayyy behind the play on a backcheck, or slowly making his way to the bench for a line change, reaching when he should be moving his legs... etc.

I like Drai. I wear his jersey to games. Maybe he just teases us with warlord Drai at times and you begin to expect that's the way he can play and should play.

Have you watched I would say the majority of most high end offensive players on any NHL team?

As much as I partially agree with you in that every player should be backchecking hard every shift and not dogging it to the bench on a change, I don't think that's a realistic expectation. If you were to watch other teams top line players, I am pretty confident in saying you will see a huge majority of them not always backchecking as hard as they could on every shift and not always skating 100% to the bench on a change. This isn't a Leon thing.

On most nights, the amount of good plays he does, far, far out weigh the bad.

[Updated on: Tue, 12 March 2024 10:52]

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830832 is a reply to message #830821 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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HamBlaster wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 09:28

.

Perhaps I'm off-base with my thoughts, but I don't think the fancy stats are going to fix the numerous times a game where I see him wayyy behind the play on a backcheck, or slowly making his way to the bench for a line change, reaching when he should be moving his legs... etc.




Forget the offensive stuff then as it seems we agree there.
I had this part in my stats post;
Def zone time spent; 89th percentile.
For clarity, that means the puck is in the Oiler zone less that 89% of all forwards in the NHL. That means he is really good at keeping the puck out of the Oilers end. Whether that is by getting it out, back checking or possessing it doesn't matter. If the puck isnt in the Oilers end it pretty hard for a GA.

I am a middle ground guy on stats. They help look at a player but in the end it is about GF and GA.

Of the 6 forwards with the most ice time only Foegele has less GA with 36 and he has played about 200 less minutes.

Drai is better that almost every Oiler at preventing 5 V 5 goals. Again, I dont care how he does it.

If he has to glide on a change or can't back check at full speed because of how he uses his energy then I am fine with that if he is dominating the overall possession, zone rime and most importantly, GF/GA.

I just find it odd to berate a player for one thing he isnt top ten at when he is elite at a VAST majority of time he is on the ice.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830833 is a reply to message #830823 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 09:42

Draisaitl has worn the lazy moniker since he was 16 years old with the Prince Albert Raiders. I agree with the deceiving long strides, but I find people forget the plays he drives multiple times a game with someone on his back and tend to focus on his half hearted line changes that are caught on camera. That, or his lack of enthusiasm.

A grimace in Germany is a smile in North America.


I remember this too. Before he was drafted by the Oilers I heard about him. Went to see him play a couple times and remember being unimpressed at first. I thought he was slow and lazy.
Then I watched closer and realized just how good he was and how many good things happened when he was on the ice.
It maybe why I defend him so strongly now. I don't know if there has ever been a player that I was so wrong about on my first impression.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #830834 is a reply to message #830825 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 10:50


On most nights, the amount of good plays he does, far, far out weigh the bad.


This is one my favorite things you have ever posted.

Regardless of any fan's favorite stat, this should be the metric that we judge every player on.

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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #831052 is a reply to message #830834 ]
Tue, 19 March 2024 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster is currently offline HamBlaster
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Super wicked effort by Leon on all three of the Avs goals in that most recent game, wouldn't you say?

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #831057 is a reply to message #831052 ]
Tue, 19 March 2024 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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HamBlaster wrote on Tue, 19 March 2024 19:55

Super wicked effort by Leon on all three of the Avs goals in that most recent game, wouldn't you say?


Given you seemingly have this near obsessive ax to grind I guess you missed this;

PlusOne wrote on Sun, 17 March 2024 11:48

g2k wrote on Sat, 16 March 2024 22:57

Leon needs to get the eff off the ice when he’s tired. I’m not talking about OT. I’m talking about the entire game. Which ended up making him pretty much useless in OT.

This isn’t a one off with him.


This is a fair criticism. I have been a strong defender of some of the dumb takes on 29's game but his style is tiring and he doesnt have the tank for the long shifts he takes.



Unlike you, I can be objective and call a spade a spade. I dont blindly stick to one point and repeat it again and again, hoping people will agree with me someday.
You, on the other hand, have proven time and again a lack of actual ability to observe, analyze and extrapolate any sort of intelligent hockey analysis.
Find a new schtick, this one is tired.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #831061 is a reply to message #830832 ]
Tue, 19 March 2024 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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PlusOne wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 19:45

HamBlaster wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 09:28

.

Perhaps I'm off-base with my thoughts, but I don't think the fancy stats are going to fix the numerous times a game where I see him wayyy behind the play on a backcheck, or slowly making his way to the bench for a line change, reaching when he should be moving his legs... etc.




Forget the offensive stuff then as it seems we agree there.
I had this part in my stats post;
Def zone time spent; 89th percentile.
For clarity, that means the puck is in the Oiler zone less that 89% of all forwards in the NHL. That means he is really good at keeping the puck out of the Oilers end. Whether that is by getting it out, back checking or possessing it doesn't matter. If the puck isnt in the Oilers end it pretty hard for a GA.

I am a middle ground guy on stats. They help look at a player but in the end it is about GF and GA.

Of the 6 forwards with the most ice time only Foegele has less GA with 36 and he has played about 200 less minutes.

Drai is better that almost every Oiler at preventing 5 V 5 goals. Again, I dont care how he does it.

If he has to glide on a change or can't back check at full speed because of how he uses his energy then I am fine with that if he is dominating the overall possession, zone rime and most importantly, GF/GA.

I just find it odd to berate a player for one thing he isnt top ten at when he is elite at a VAST majority of time he is on the ice.


There is this unreasonable expectation that our star players have to be the best player on every shift and every game. It is unrealistic and every HOF’er has had a dash 3 night. Sometimes fans look for a scapegoat.

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #831278 is a reply to message #831057 ]
Sun, 24 March 2024 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster is currently offline HamBlaster
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You've got an "axe" to grind? Well so do I.

This is a forum where people can share their opinions, and should be able to engage in discourse without folks turning to insults to seemingly attempt to hammer their point home.

Get over yourself. I think Drai is lazy as sin sometimes, and that it causes the team problems. Why do you have to make it your personal mission to make me shut up? That flies in the face of what this forum is trying to achieve. Fans should be able to talk about the team, but you try to drive everyone away so that only your voice is heard.

It's lame, and it's tiring.

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #831288 is a reply to message #831278 ]
Sun, 24 March 2024 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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HamBlaster wrote on Sun, 24 March 2024 18:31

You've got an "axe" to grind? Well so do I.

This is a forum where people can share their opinions, and should be able to engage in discourse without folks turning to insults to seemingly attempt to hammer their point home.

Get over yourself. I think Drai is lazy as sin sometimes, and that it causes the team problems. Why do you have to make it your personal mission to make me shut up? That flies in the face of what this forum is trying to achieve. Fans should be able to talk about the team, but you try to drive everyone away so that only your voice is heard.

It's lame, and it's tiring.


You are kind of funny.

"Get over yourself."
No need, I am very self aware.

" I think Drai is lazy as sin sometimes, and that it causes the team problems."
You repeat this constantly yet nothing backs it up.

"should be able to engage in discourse without folks turning to insults "
Agreed. I fully admit and own my snarkiness. If it offended you on some personal level I apologize.

" Why do you have to make it your personal mission to make me shut up? "
I dont want you to shut up but if you keep repeating nonsense I will keep refuting it.

"Fans should be able to talk about the team, but you try to drive everyone away so that only your voice is heard."
100% agree. You have your opinion, I have mine. Why am I the bad guy?

"It's lame, and it's tiring"
I agree. I miss the days when this place was full of spart hockey fans having intelligent debate and discussion. I do find it interesting that there seems to be more bickering here than when the team was dead last for 90% of the season.



Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on


CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #831330 is a reply to message #831288 ]
Tue, 26 March 2024 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HamBlaster is currently offline HamBlaster
Messages: 985
Registered: June 2007
No Cups
Alright. We're good here.

[Updated on: Tue, 26 March 2024 18:28]

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 Re: Toronto - Hot take [message #831371 is a reply to message #831288 ]
Wed, 27 March 2024 15:20 Go to previous message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...
2 Cups
[quote title=PlusOne wrote on Sun, 24 March 2024 18:48]
HamBlaster wrote on Sun, 24 March 2024 18:31



"It's lame, and it's tiring"
I agree. I miss the days when this place was full of spart hockey fans having intelligent debate and discussion. I do find it interesting that there seems to be more bickering here than when the team was dead last for 90% of the season.





The decade plus of darkness was unifying. Hard to disagree with each other about the team's performance, or the management when the best quote came from MacT, "We are visually better".

15 years of moral victories unified us, and now winning has us all confused again.

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