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Oilers » Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19)

Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795040]	Wed, 24 November 2021 22:30

OilFans
Messages: 1559
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

3 Final

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795043 is a reply to message #795040 ]	Wed, 24 November 2021 22:42

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

We 1-lined the crap out of that one!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795044 is a reply to message #795040 ]	Wed, 24 November 2021 22:53

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Well, they beat a team they should and they minimized a losing skid to one game.

I'd like to see a win streak but given the state of the back end, I think they're more likely to tread water until a couple of these guys on D that were in tonight are either in the PB or in Bako.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795045 is a reply to message #795040 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 00:52

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

McD and LD created 5 of the goals.. 97 = 👽
Nuge keeps shootin' muffins..

A few posts.

Too many grade AAA shots passed up, for an iffy pass, that never happened.

Bouchard fumbling around last few games, needs to find his inner demons, hopefully he has some to channel. When a hotdog gobbler like Kessel feels safe to mix it up with you its time for some self reflection.

4th line played well, Benson almost getting a goal, but they were a failure on the 2nd Zona goal. Stayed out too long trying to get points, collapsed to the goal in their own end, Benson standing around checking air, Chekryn free to walk in and fire a bomb past Koski, which started the Zona comeback. Game was done and dusted, and a weak shift gives a losing team the spark of life.

I liked Kassian tonight, good work, we might see this line for another game. 1G +2A = 3 points.

JP looked good with 71 and 37. 71 is getting better every game, carrying the puck more, making plays.. had a golden 2 on 1 and passed up a great shot, held on to the puck, has to learn to take the shot when he has it.

Koski played well.

Note: *All these positive comments have to be framed with playing Arizona.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795046 is a reply to message #795043 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 07:13

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 November 2021 22:42

We 1-lined the crap out of that one!

I really thought we had 4 lines really rolling out there and sometimes 4. Wedgewood played well. Thankfully, the top line converted.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795047 is a reply to message #795045 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 08:46

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Easily should have had more goals but a few posts and some unbelievable saves by Wedgewood made it closer than it was.

Big game for Benson, almost doubled his shot total for the season. He had 3 going in, got 2 last night. I thought the 4th line was OK but then they gave up a goal late. Probably could have had a few.

At some point Nuge is going to score a goal right? 1 goal in 19 games is a 4 goal pace. Assists are great, primarily on the PP but they need some goals. Much better on the PK. I didn't notice Yamo much. Hyman was going and could have had a couple.

I thought the 3rd line was decent.

The top line was obviously going. I liked the chippiness of Leon and McD. Pushing people a bit, some hits. I'd like to see them play more games with a bit of a chip on their shoulder.

Another good night for Broberg. I am starting to see why they drafted him. He could be a good one. I thought the Broberg - Ceci pair was good again.

Bouchard was better than he was in Dallas but still going through a rough patch.

Lagesson is not an NHL dman, not even sure he's a full time #7. Lagesson is 25, has 28 NHL games, a whole pile of AHL games. He plays under 11 mins, 20 yr old Broberg with 3 career NHL games and a handful of AHL games plays 21.29.

Koskinen was decent. Had almost 2 periods where he just had to sit and watch but he was good when he had to be.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795049 is a reply to message #795047 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 10:42

GabbyDugan
Messages: 828
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB

No Cups

Kris Russell played 22:56 and was +2. Zack Kassian scored a goal with Draisaitl and McDavid. But, hey, it was Arizona.

Kind of an awkward game, but the effort that was missing in Dallas was definitely there in Arizona. For some reason, the Oilers seem to have more oomph in the second game of back-to-backs.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795050 is a reply to message #795049 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 10:46

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

GabbyDugan wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 10:42

For what Russell is as a dman, I have thought he's been alright.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795054 is a reply to message #795040 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 12:05

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Sportsnet Stats @SNstats

Most Recent Players With 20+ Goals Through First 19 Team Games of a Season:

Leon Draisaitl (2021-22) - 20
Simon Gagne (2005-06) - 20
Mario Lemieux (1992-93) - 22
Pavel Bure (1992-93) - 20

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795057 is a reply to message #795045 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 13:35

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 24 November 2021 23:52

Bouchard fumbling around last few games, needs to find his inner demons, hopefully he has some to channel.

He's a young defenceman on a team that is down 3 d-men, totally normal for him to go through ups and downs as he's figuring things out. Would have been nice if he had been given space to figure some stuff out last year, but instead he got 2 months to figure out which stall in the press-box bathroom has the best seat.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795059 is a reply to message #795045 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 13:47

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 00:52

I liked Kassian tonight, good work, we might see this line for another game. 1G +2A = 3 points.

Kassian usually does well on the top line, but everybody gets the McDavid boost. Just a shame the money is wasted on him when you could cycle speedy bottom 6 guys through there over the season. Let somebody else overpay them based on the McD bump.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795060 is a reply to message #795054 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 14:38

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

so you're saying he's an ok player.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795062 is a reply to message #795045 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 15:00

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 00:52

I liked Kassian tonight, good work, we might see this line for another game. 1G +2A = 3 points.

I assume that the Oilers are currently working on another contract extension for Kassian after last night!

Great that he had a big night, but I think we all should have learned by now that all we should expect from him is inconsistent production. We've got a large enough sample size.

I am really curious how Tippett decides whether he wants one line or two on any given day. Stacking McDavid and Draisaitl together just seems to be something he NEEDS to do every week or so, and I don't get it - the team looks so much more balanced and dangerous top to bottom when they play apart.

It worked last night against Arizona, but it didn't the night before in Dallas. I would like to see that as the nuclear option, not the default.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795067 is a reply to message #795060 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 15:47

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 14:38

so you're saying he's an ok player.

He's at least on Simon Gagne's level :)

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795069 is a reply to message #795067 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 16:06

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Leon might win the scoring title for the second time this season.
Leon might win the MVP and Lindsay for the second time this season.
Leon will probably score at least 50 goals this season for the second time.
Leon might win the Rocket Richard trophy for the first time this year.
Leon was on pace for 123 pts last year in 82. He's technically on pace for 173 pts this year. I don't think he will get 173 pts but could he "slow down" and score 130, maybe 140? Probably

This from a guy who apparently was overpaid and a player who the Oilers shouldn't have drafted in the first place in eyes of some people. I always laugh when I think about the arguments I got into with some people back then about those very things. Thank god the Oilers drafted him and they signed him long term to probably the best contract in the NHL.

The Oilers didn't get a lot right back then but they sure got Leon right.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795070 is a reply to message #795040 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 16:34

NetBOG
Messages: 2948
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

Two off days in Vegas is not a good path to success on Saturday night.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795071 is a reply to message #795070 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 18:45

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 17:34

Two off days in Vegas is not a good path to success on Saturday night.

Probably getting a good thanksgiving meal tonight and then taking in The Match tomorrow. Don’t see how anything can go wrong... wait, where’s Doug?

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795073 is a reply to message #795062 ]	Thu, 25 November 2021 23:09

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 14:00

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 00:52

I liked Kassian tonight, good work, we might see this line for another game. 1G +2A = 3 points.

Kassian is one of my least favourite Oilers at this point. Just looks completely disinterested most nights.

Saw this from Oilfans alum Dennis King (@DKingBH):

Quote:

29-97-44 have played 466 min together since the start of the '19 season. Their GF/GA is a 30-26 and their xGF rounds up to 50 pct. You could use their powers by babysitting Kassian or you could(should) just forget about Kassian

https://twitter.com/DKingBH/status/1464068974879162369?s=20

+4 in almost 500min with McDrai is awful.

When playing with anyone else over that period their GF/GA is 48/34 in 572 min. They score over a goal more per 60 when not playing with Kassian and give up less. There's just no evidence that he should be playing with those 2.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20 192020&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&s core=all&rate=n&team=EDM&vteam=ALL&view=wowy &loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2019-10-02&td=2022-04- 29&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8478402&p2=847793 4&p3=8475178&p4=0&p5=0

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795078 is a reply to message #795069 ]	Fri, 26 November 2021 10:55

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 16:06

Imagine if he was signed for Mackinnon money though. That was a great comparable back then. People can argue about buying the UFA years and say that he played his way into making the deal a value, but it was the absolute top of the market the day it was signed, arguably even above that.

Nurse signed a $9 million deal and hasn't earned the money so far this year. If in 3 years time he's getting Norris votes regularly and putting up consistent points, then it isn't so egregious, right now he's overpaid, just like Leon was.

All that said, I wouldn't trade leon for anybody in the league at this point.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795079 is a reply to message #795078 ]	Fri, 26 November 2021 11:00

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

That's right. Pastrnak, Scheifele, Gaudreau all came under 7 million. We paid an absolute premium to go full term. It worked out because of Leon. Not because Chiarelli knew what he had.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795080 is a reply to message #795079 ]	Fri, 26 November 2021 11:24

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 11:00

That's right. Pastrnak, Scheifele, Gaudreau all came under 7 million. We paid an absolute premium to go full term. It worked out because of Leon. Not because Chiarelli knew what he had.

It will be nice having Drai for 2 more years at 8.5M though while Pasta gets whatever he's gonna get those 2 seasons.

Wonder what little Johnny gets this summer. Forgot this is a contract year for him, although, should have been able to guess from his play so far this season vs previous ones.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795081 is a reply to message #795078 ]	Fri, 26 November 2021 11:46

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 10:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 16:06

The production MacKinnon had before he signed that contract vs the production Leon had both in season and playoffs that year were quite different. Leon had a much better year before the contract and was on an upward projection vs MacKinnon had 3 years in a row of low 20's in goals, 50-60 ish pts with his rookie season as his career high. Leon just came off a great playoff where he has 16 ps in 13 games centering his own line. Rightly or wrongly, all teams place a premium on playoff performances. The Oilers also bought another year of free agency signing him to 8 yrs vs 7 for Mackinnon. That also plays into a higher cap hit.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795082 is a reply to message #795081 ]	Fri, 26 November 2021 11:52

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 11:46

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 10:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 16:06

Not sure why you’d argue that literally resetting the market was any kind of shrewd negotiating, especially when it was the same GM who did the Koskinen deal, but go on then.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795083 is a reply to message #795081 ]	Fri, 26 November 2021 11:56

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 11:46

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 10:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 16:06

MacKinnon and Pasta were both on the record as well saying they didn't care about money and just wanted a deal. Lucky for Colorado and Boston, as well as how Pasta was the 3rd best player on his line consistently up until his contract and the other 2 guys were on bargain deals. So surprise that kind respectful young lad ended up with an AAV right around Bergeron and Marchand. If only every player had that attitude! Some do, most don't. Nate at 6.3M with a mediocre year on one of the worst performing teams ever in 16/17 may have actually helped lift Drai's contract too.

Is what it is. Drai clearly went in wanting to cash in on his crazy playoff run carrying Looch and Slepyshev by some crazy run of magic luck. He let McDavid sign first to help his negotiation. Stood his ground, never know what offer sheets he had on the table as well. We insisted on 8 years and can just be thankful now it worked out like it did.

Chia sucks at negotiating and I'm sure Lucky Lou could have done a way better job, but hey, at least the Leafs completely destroyed their rebuild even worse with Dumbas' terrible negotiating :)

For our cap issues Chia made, Drai getting maybe 1M more than Lou would have given him for 8 years is barely even on the list.

[Updated on: Fri, 26 November 2021 12:09]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795084 is a reply to message #795082 ]	Fri, 26 November 2021 13:21

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 11:52

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 11:46

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 10:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 25 November 2021 16:06

Not sure why you’d argue that literally resetting the market was any kind of shrewd negotiating, especially when it was the same GM who did the Koskinen deal, but go on then.

I'm not arguing that Chia was an idiot but in the case of McD and Leon, I think he did an OK job with those 2 contracts.

I am a person who tries to look at things realistically vs hopes and maybes.

- MacKinnon was signed in 16, Leon 17. Normally from year to year as the cap goes up which was the case back then, we see contracts from year to year go up slightly. So there would be a slight increase because of that.
- Come out of their ELC, Leon had 2 better statistical seasons in a row than MacKinnon. So there would be a slight increase based on that.
- Leon also came out of an extremely good playoff. Mackinnon's team was bad. So there would be an increase based on that.
- Leon looked to be on the rise with better seasons to continue to come. MacKinnon like I said had 3 years in a row with almost the same goals and points. He then followed it up the year he signed that contract with another of the sameish totals. So there would be an increase because of that.
- The Oilers bought an extra year of free agency. As soon as you do that, the price goes up.
- McD signed his contract a month earlier for 12.5 mill which everyone including people in here said was probably a bargain. How possibly can you or anyone else say unless you are not being truthful, that when McD got 12.5, Leon was supposed to basically take half? Like come on man! Saying Leon's contract set the market is false, McD set the market. Leon was not half the player McD was so expecting him to be cool with taking half is ludicrous.
- When Leon signed his deal, he was a better player than MacKinnon so there was an increase because of that AND he's proven to be a superior player than MacKinnon.

So thinking that Leon was supposed to get MacKinnon money when he had better seasons and a great playoff, he signed for longer, the cap went up so salaries typically always go up, he was a better player at the time and proven to be a better player now as well as his teammate McD resetting the market is flat out just so unrealistic in my books. I wouldn't have traded Leon for MacKinnon straight up back then and I sure as hell wouldn't do it now so I don't see how they should be paid the same when there is a difference in the 2 players.

[Updated on: Fri, 26 November 2021 13:25]

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795091 is a reply to message #795083 ]	Fri, 26 November 2021 16:41

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 11:56

It's a moot point now, and I don't know why it's being re-hashed. Chiarelli definitely didn't get any bargain with Draisaitl, and he probably should have - saying McDavid isn't signing for everything he got, and that if everyone leaves a little money on the table they can afford to surround them with better players. There were comparables that could have been used to try to move Draisaitl's camp, but his agent was smart - and floated rumours of teams eyeing an offer sheet, and Chiarelli caved. It also undercut the ability of the team to tell people they needed to take a discount when they paid a premium to both Russell and Gryba that summer - even after Gryba was a healthy scratch in all but two playoff games. If I'm Draisaitl, I'm not taking a discount if I see you blowing that money foolishly.

It's probably worth wondering why the Oilers hadn't pulled out the cheque book and signed an extension a year earlier for $5-6MM/season for 3-4 years. It would have helped in the short term anyhow, although maybe would have been worse for us now.

Doesn't really matter though. Leon's been earning his money now. He's probably become a value contract simply by outperforming all expectations.

With regards to the Leafs, I do wonder how much of their cap issues aren't a tax for hanging on to Babcock. If he's not there, do Matthews and Marner put the gun to the team's head?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #19) [message #795094 is a reply to message #795091 ]	Fri, 26 November 2021 16:44

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 16:41

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 26 November 2021 11:56

I'm not sure Babcock should take much blame for what Matthews and Marner got. Matthews is 100% the kind of guy that wants to extract max value. I don't think he's married to the Leafs at all. Max value, shorter term to keep his options opened in case his modeling career really takes off and the USA has better opportunities. He wanted it, he got it, Dubas folded.

Marner got totally screwed over by Lucky Lou, losing out on millions of bonus money because Lou convinced him to remove bonuses that every top pick got. Marner came in hot for his negotiation, only Lou wasn't there to follow up. Dubas folded again. Nylander, another guy that totally seems like the type that wants max value. Been rich his whole life, he wanted what he feels he has deserved since he was a kid. Dubas was handicapped as well for all these negotiations with his Tavares contract.

[Updated on: Fri, 26 November 2021 16:49]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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