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Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794651]	Thu, 18 November 2021 02:00

OilFans
Messages: 1558
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

1

2 Final (OT) (SO)

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Edmonton to win:	0%
Winnipeg to win:	0%
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2021-22 Regular Season
Tuesday, November 16, 2021 Edmonton 2 @ Winnipeg 5 Loss
Thursday, November 18, 2021 Winnipeg 1 @ Edmonton 2 (OT) (SO) Win
Saturday, February 19, 2022 Edmonton 4 @ Winnipeg 2 Win
Home Record: 1-0-0 Road Record: 1-1-0 Overall Record: 2-1-0
Home / Road Goals For: 2/6 Total: 8
Home / Road Goals Against: 1/7 Total: 8

2020-21 Regular Season
Sunday, January 24, 2021 Edmonton 4 @ Winnipeg 3 Win
Tuesday, January 26, 2021 Edmonton 4 @ Winnipeg 6 Loss
Monday, February 15, 2021 Winnipeg 6 @ Edmonton 5 Loss
Wednesday, February 17, 2021 Winnipeg 2 @ Edmonton 3 Win
Thursday, March 18, 2021 Winnipeg 1 @ Edmonton 2 Win
Saturday, March 20, 2021 Winnipeg 2 @ Edmonton 4 Win
Saturday, April 17, 2021 Edmonton 3 @ Winnipeg 0 Win
Monday, April 26, 2021 Edmonton 6 @ Winnipeg 1 Win
Wednesday, April 28, 2021 Edmonton 3 @ Winnipeg 1 Win
Home Record: 3-1-0 Road Record: 4-1-0 Overall Record: 7-2-0
Home / Road Goals For: 14/20 Total: 34
Home / Road Goals Against: 11/11 Total: 22

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794655 is a reply to message #794651 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 08:17

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Say what you want, it’s Must win night

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794656 is a reply to message #794655 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 08:36

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I thought the defense minus maybe Barrie had a real rough night. I thought it might have been Nurse and Bouchard's worse game of the season. So the good news in my opinion is I don't think they can play any worse.

I'm expecting a much better effort tonight.

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794657 is a reply to message #794651 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 08:53

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Winnipeg sweep?

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794659 is a reply to message #794657 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 09:12

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 09:53

Winnipeg sweep?

Probably.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794660 is a reply to message #794656 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 09:17

GabbyDugan
Messages: 828
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB

No Cups

Random thoughts.

The boys better come out ready with no wake up call needed. The idea of giving up early goals then trying to dig their way out of a hole reminds me of the dark final days of Cam Talbot's Oiler tenure.

Nurse has matured into one of the NHL's elite defensemen, but I don't see him as a mentor for Bouchard or any other D. I would hope that Tippett would just let these two do their thing and make the rest of the defense core take care of business.

The bottom six forwards seem to be slipping in their work ethic lately, becoming passengers content to watch Draisaitl and McDavid do the dirty work and heavy lifting. C'mon guys, don't become the weakest link on a team with so much potential.

Tippett will get this team to a decent playoff seeding, but can he prepare the squad properly for the playoffs? It's the last year of his contract, so he has to be at his best. I heard some guy named Babcock is looking in from Saskatoon, but who ever heard of a guy coming to Edmonton from Saskatchewan for better opportunities?

Goaltending is pretty fragile, but Holland apparently isn't ready to make any moves yet. Hoping Smith comes back strong and Skinner continues to show he can turn his potential into value.

Hope the officiating stops sucking, as per the NHL's promise. Bettman is a man of his word, isn't he?

Go Oilers!!! rock

rock

rock

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794662 is a reply to message #794656 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 10:00

NetBOG
Messages: 2948
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 08:36

I thought the defense minus maybe Barrie had a real rough night. I thought it might have been Nurse and Bouchard's worse game of the season. So the good news in my opinion is I don't think they can play any worse.

I'm expecting a much better effort tonight.

I've been told by everyone but you that it was 100% Koskinen's fault and he's the worst goalie in the history of the NHL. Is that not right?

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794664 is a reply to message #794662 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 10:40

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 08:36

I thought the defense minus maybe Barrie had a real rough night. I thought it might have been Nurse and Bouchard's worse game of the season. So the good news in my opinion is I don't think they can play any worse.

I'm expecting a much better effort tonight.

I've been told by everyone but you that it was 100% Koskinen's fault and he's the worst goalie in the history of the NHL. Is that not right?

Not sure where I said I thought Koskinen played well. That first goal can't go in, it just can't ever. I am a big believer in things impacting the teams moral and it affecting their games. They are human beings after all. So in my opinion, seeing a goal like that go in, especially when it's the first shot has to deflate them some. It was what, a couple of mins in, some guys hadn't even had a shift yet and it was a goal on a pretty innocent play. That being said, I don't think the defense had an overly good game either so that didn't help things.

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794665 is a reply to message #794659 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 10:46

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Lines tonight.

Hyman - McD - JP
Nuge - Leon - Yamo
Foegele - McLeod - Kassian
Benson - Sceviour - Turris

Nurse - Barrie
Keith - Ceci
Koekkoek - Bouchard

Skinner

Stauffer saying Ryan isn't on the ice so he might be nicked up.

I am not digging that 4th line at all, I hope to be proven wrong. In my opinion, Benson needs to do something. I don't care if he doesn't get a ton of ice time, get noticed. Even with out injury, I would have Sceviour on the 4th line. He's much better defensively than most of who they have been playing. The Turris experiment can't end any quicker. He just doesn't do anything.

I think when they are healthy, the 4th line will be.
Shore - Ryan - Sceviour

I really hope the team comes out flying.

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794667 is a reply to message #794665 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 10:57

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:46

Lines tonight.

Hyman - McD - JP
Nuge - Leon - Yamo
Foegele - McLeod - Kassian
Benson - Sceviour - Turris

Nurse - Barrie
Keith - Ceci
Koekkoek - Bouchard

Skinner

Stauffer saying Ryan isn't on the ice so he might be nicked up.

I am not digging that 4th line at all, I hope to be proven wrong. In my opinion, Benson needs to do something. I don't care if he doesn't get a ton of ice time, get noticed. Even with out injury, I would have Sceviour on the 4th line. He's much better defensively than most of who they have been playing. The Turris experiment can't end any quicker. He just doesn't do anything.

I think when they are healthy, the 4th line will be.
Shore - Ryan - Sceviour

I really hope the team comes out flying.

Any lineup with Shore in it is weaker than otherwise. Sceviour's outperformed the other bottom 6ers.

Doesn't really matter anyhow, none of them are getting over 6 mins tonight...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794668 is a reply to message #794667 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 11:09

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:46

Lines tonight.

Hyman - McD - JP
Nuge - Leon - Yamo
Foegele - McLeod - Kassian
Benson - Sceviour - Turris

Nurse - Barrie
Keith - Ceci
Koekkoek - Bouchard

Skinner

Stauffer saying Ryan isn't on the ice so he might be nicked up.

I am not digging that 4th line at all, I hope to be proven wrong. In my opinion, Benson needs to do something. I don't care if he doesn't get a ton of ice time, get noticed. Even with out injury, I would have Sceviour on the 4th line. He's much better defensively than most of who they have been playing. The Turris experiment can't end any quicker. He just doesn't do anything.

I think when they are healthy, the 4th line will be.
Shore - Ryan - Sceviour

I really hope the team comes out flying.

Any lineup with Shore in it is weaker than otherwise. Sceviour's outperformed the other bottom 6ers.

Doesn't really matter anyhow, none of them are getting over 6 mins tonight...

That's your opinion.

I am no Shore lover but I know he will at least hustle, throw an occasional hit, forecheck a bit, kill penalties, win some faceoffs, can play multiple positions, maybe bring some energy and there is a chance he could score in limited minutes because he did that before. In Benson, I expect nothing. He's just out there to give guys a breather and probably will see zeros for a stat line after tonight.

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794669 is a reply to message #794668 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 11:11

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Oh and I forgot to add. Then see next day how some fans will say "Benson just needs to be given a chance". When he literally does nothing in the game over and over again. And that it's Tippet's fault that Benson just skates around doing nothing looking completely over matched as he goes up against other teams 4th lines.

[Updated on: Thu, 18 November 2021 11:14]

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794670 is a reply to message #794668 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 11:20

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 11:09

Adam wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:46

Lines tonight.

Hyman - McD - JP
Nuge - Leon - Yamo
Foegele - McLeod - Kassian
Benson - Sceviour - Turris

Nurse - Barrie
Keith - Ceci
Koekkoek - Bouchard

Skinner

Stauffer saying Ryan isn't on the ice so he might be nicked up.

I am not digging that 4th line at all, I hope to be proven wrong. In my opinion, Benson needs to do something. I don't care if he doesn't get a ton of ice time, get noticed. Even with out injury, I would have Sceviour on the 4th line. He's much better defensively than most of who they have been playing. The Turris experiment can't end any quicker. He just doesn't do anything.

I think when they are healthy, the 4th line will be.
Shore - Ryan - Sceviour

I really hope the team comes out flying.

Any lineup with Shore in it is weaker than otherwise. Sceviour's outperformed the other bottom 6ers.

Doesn't really matter anyhow, none of them are getting over 6 mins tonight...

That's your opinion.

I am no Shore lover but I know he will at least hustle, throw an occasional hit, forecheck a bit, kill penalties, win some faceoffs, can play multiple positions, maybe bring some energy and there is a chance he could score in limited minutes because he did that before. In Benson, I expect nothing. He's just out there to give guys a breather and probably will see zeros for a stat line after tonight.

Things that don't matter:

- hustling
- throw an occasional hit
- forecheck a bit
- bring some energy

Shore has been one of the worst players in the league for the last couple of years. When he's on the ice, the other team tends to dominate. That, you'll be surprised to hear, is bad.

[Updated on: Thu, 18 November 2021 11:22]

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794672 is a reply to message #794670 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 11:59

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 11:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 11:09

Adam wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:46

Lines tonight.

Hyman - McD - JP
Nuge - Leon - Yamo
Foegele - McLeod - Kassian
Benson - Sceviour - Turris

Nurse - Barrie
Keith - Ceci
Koekkoek - Bouchard

Skinner

Stauffer saying Ryan isn't on the ice so he might be nicked up.

I am not digging that 4th line at all, I hope to be proven wrong. In my opinion, Benson needs to do something. I don't care if he doesn't get a ton of ice time, get noticed. Even with out injury, I would have Sceviour on the 4th line. He's much better defensively than most of who they have been playing. The Turris experiment can't end any quicker. He just doesn't do anything.

I think when they are healthy, the 4th line will be.
Shore - Ryan - Sceviour

I really hope the team comes out flying.

Any lineup with Shore in it is weaker than otherwise. Sceviour's outperformed the other bottom 6ers.

Doesn't really matter anyhow, none of them are getting over 6 mins tonight...

That's your opinion.

I am no Shore lover but I know he will at least hustle, throw an occasional hit, forecheck a bit, kill penalties, win some faceoffs, can play multiple positions, maybe bring some energy and there is a chance he could score in limited minutes because he did that before. In Benson, I expect nothing. He's just out there to give guys a breather and probably will see zeros for a stat line after tonight.

Things that don't matter:

- hustling
- throw an occasional hit
- forecheck a bit
- bring some energy

Shore has been one of the worst players in the league for the last couple of years. When he's on the ice, the other team tends to dominate. That, you'll be surprised to hear, is bad.

I know they don't matter to you Adam. You are what, an arm chair GM, know it all fan that does whatever non NHL, non hockey related job you do for a living who posts on a fan site. Those things seem to matter to any coach or former coach you hear talk about the game. Any ex. NHL player who is a commentator or media guy. But what the hell do they know, they only work/played in the NHL while you post from your computer somewhere.

Here's the stat line for Shore and Benson.

Shore: 8 GP, 1g, 2 pts, -3. 5 shots, 10 hits, 5 block shots, 53.7% on faceoffs. Killed penalties on the #4 ranked PK in the NHL. Plays center or wing.

Benson: 5GP 0 pts, -2, 3 shots, 7 hits. No blocks. Only a winger, plays zero special teams.

Now I am just a fan that played some hockey when I was a kid. I watch a lot of hockey on TV and go to as many games as I can. I try to follow stats and read up on things as much as I can or time allows. I have an opinion on a lot of things hockey related and the Oilers but I do nothing hockey related for my job and never will. I like to think that I know some things but I am not so arrogant that I think I know more and am smarter when it comes to what it takes and what is important to be an NHL player and contribute something to go against what people who make a living working in hockey or used to play the game.

With all that being said. With my limited knowledge as a fan and what it takes to be a pro hockey player and contribute in a pro game. When I see a player who has zeros for just about ALL of the stats you can have in a NHL game that I could look up quickly so it basically looks like he almost did nothing on the ice at all to contribute anything to the team winning in 5 games. Then compare them to another player who played similar games and I all kinds of usable stats that would have helped the team make plays and win games, not to mention he plays multiple positions, good on faceoffs and chips in on a really good special teams. I really have a hard time buying in that the team is better off having Shore sit out when healthy in place of Benson.

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794675 is a reply to message #794672 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 13:22

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:59

I know they don't matter to you Adam. You are what, an arm chair GM, know it all fan that does whatever non NHL, non hockey related job you do for a living who posts on a fan site. Those things seem to matter to any coach or former coach you hear talk about the game. Any ex. NHL player who is a commentator or media guy. But what the hell do they know, they only work/played in the NHL while you post from your computer somewhere.

Here's the stat line for Shore and Benson.

Shore: 8 GP, 1g, 2 pts, -3. 5 shots, 10 hits, 5 block shots, 53.7% on faceoffs. Killed penalties on the #4 ranked PK in the NHL. Plays center or wing.

Benson: 5GP 0 pts, -2, 3 shots, 7 hits. No blocks. Only a winger, plays zero special teams.

Now I am just a fan that played some hockey when I was a kid. I watch a lot of hockey on TV and go to as many games as I can. I try to follow stats and read up on things as much as I can or time allows. I have an opinion on a lot of things hockey related and the Oilers but I do nothing hockey related for my job and never will. I like to think that I know some things but I am not so arrogant that I think I know more and am smarter when it comes to what it takes and what is important to be an NHL player and contribute something to go against what people who make a living working in hockey or used to play the game.

With all that being said. With my limited knowledge as a fan and what it takes to be a pro hockey player and contribute in a pro game. When I see a player who has zeros for just about ALL of the stats you can have in a NHL game that I could look up quickly so it basically looks like he almost did nothing on the ice at all to contribute anything to the team winning in 5 games. Then compare them to another player who played similar games and I all kinds of usable stats that would have helped the team make plays and win games, not to mention he plays multiple positions, good on faceoffs and chips in on a really good special teams. I really have a hard time buying in that the team is better off having Shore sit out when healthy in place of Benson.

To be fair, Benson has been throwing hits at a higher rate than Shore this year, he's just played less minutes.

Shore is also averaging 1 PK shift per game (48 seconds), so I don't know that we can give him a ton of credit for the PKs success.

In terms of faceoffs, that does seem to be a plus for Shore, but because he plays so little, he's only averaging about 5 per game and has won 3 more faceoffs than he's lost this season. Again not something that I think is moving the needle in terms of wins and losses.

On the other hand, Shore is a guy that has been on the ice for 20 more goals against than goals for over the past 3 seasons. That is something that moves the needle. He's literally one of the worst players in the league over the past 3 seasons in 5x5 GF%.

I'm not saying that Tyler Benson is the answer. But given his success in the AHL, and the fact that we know the Oilers bottom 6 is not good, I don't see why they wouldn't give him more of a push.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794677 is a reply to message #794675 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 14:12

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Goose wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 13:22

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:59

I know they don't matter to you Adam. You are what, an arm chair GM, know it all fan that does whatever non NHL, non hockey related job you do for a living who posts on a fan site. Those things seem to matter to any coach or former coach you hear talk about the game. Any ex. NHL player who is a commentator or media guy. But what the hell do they know, they only work/played in the NHL while you post from your computer somewhere.

Here's the stat line for Shore and Benson.

Shore: 8 GP, 1g, 2 pts, -3. 5 shots, 10 hits, 5 block shots, 53.7% on faceoffs. Killed penalties on the #4 ranked PK in the NHL. Plays center or wing.

Benson: 5GP 0 pts, -2, 3 shots, 7 hits. No blocks. Only a winger, plays zero special teams.

Now I am just a fan that played some hockey when I was a kid. I watch a lot of hockey on TV and go to as many games as I can. I try to follow stats and read up on things as much as I can or time allows. I have an opinion on a lot of things hockey related and the Oilers but I do nothing hockey related for my job and never will. I like to think that I know some things but I am not so arrogant that I think I know more and am smarter when it comes to what it takes and what is important to be an NHL player and contribute something to go against what people who make a living working in hockey or used to play the game.

With all that being said. With my limited knowledge as a fan and what it takes to be a pro hockey player and contribute in a pro game. When I see a player who has zeros for just about ALL of the stats you can have in a NHL game that I could look up quickly so it basically looks like he almost did nothing on the ice at all to contribute anything to the team winning in 5 games. Then compare them to another player who played similar games and I all kinds of usable stats that would have helped the team make plays and win games, not to mention he plays multiple positions, good on faceoffs and chips in on a really good special teams. I really have a hard time buying in that the team is better off having Shore sit out when healthy in place of Benson.

To be fair, Benson has been throwing hits at a higher rate than Shore this year, he's just played less minutes.

Shore is also averaging 1 PK shift per game (48 seconds), so I don't know that we can give him a ton of credit for the PKs success.

In terms of faceoffs, that does seem to be a plus for Shore, but because he plays so little, he's only averaging about 5 per game and has won 3 more faceoffs than he's lost this season. Again not something that I think is moving the needle in terms of wins and losses.

On the other hand, Shore is a guy that has been on the ice for 20 more goals against than goals for over the past 3 seasons. That is something that moves the needle. He's literally one of the worst players in the league over the past 3 seasons in 5x5 GF%.

I'm not saying that Tyler Benson is the answer. But given his success in the AHL, and the fact that we know the Oilers bottom 6 is not good, I don't see why they wouldn't give him more of a push.

So what are you saying to me, that nothing Shore did has any value what so ever?

I am not saying Shore is the key to the Oilers PK. He's not. But the point is he's played on it and contributed something to it. Whether it's 1 shift or 5, who cares. The point is, he CAN do it and he's done it. The Oilers deploy a fair amount of top 6 guys in the PK. Hyman, Nuge, Yamo. But if one of the Oilers main PK guys goes down in a game, (it does happen), or they need a break, he could be used on the PK and most likely can because he's done it before successfully.

You downplay his faceoffs because in your estimate he doesn't do enough. The Oilers don't play their 4th line a hell of a lot. So he doesn't get the opportunity to do them a lot. BUT. HE CAN DO THEM. He's at 53.66% this year and was 52.78% last season. So he's shown an ability to win a faceoff. The Oilers lost an OT game last playoff right off a faceoff loss because Khaira sucked at them. So if the Oilers get an icing and the 4th line is out there, there's a good chance Shore could win you a draw and get you out of your zone. Benson can't do that.

I am no a Shore lover but in the just over 8 mins of ice time he gets, his stat line says he can do something for your team. He's scored a goal, blocked some shots, won some draws. Benson has ZERO'S in his stat line. ZERO'S in very similar ice time. Take away the 48 seconds of PK time you basically think is meaningless and the 2 guys almost play exactly the same time on ice. Shore as some stats, Benson has ZERO.

In my opinion, you can't have a player no matter how much ice time they get contribute absolutely nothing on the ice. So if you only get 7 mins of ice time, then try to make that 7 mins as impactful as you can. DO SOMETHING when you are out there. All I hear over and over again about Benson is "Well he scored in the AHL". SO WHAT. There are 100's if not 1000's of players over the years who scored lots of points in the AHL and did nothing in the NHL. Benson has to go out there on the ice and freaking do something. He's got 3 shots on goal in 5 games. Play with some desperation.

Answer me this.

What exactly other than having good AHL stats has Benson done to date? I have nothing against the guy. The bottom 6 could use better players but is it not the job of the actual player to seize opportunity? Benson is in the game tonight. So if he puts up zeros again, who's fault is that other than his own?

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794679 is a reply to message #794677 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 14:36

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 14:12

Goose wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 13:22

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:59

I know they don't matter to you Adam. You are what, an arm chair GM, know it all fan that does whatever non NHL, non hockey related job you do for a living who posts on a fan site. Those things seem to matter to any coach or former coach you hear talk about the game. Any ex. NHL player who is a commentator or media guy. But what the hell do they know, they only work/played in the NHL while you post from your computer somewhere.

Here's the stat line for Shore and Benson.

Shore: 8 GP, 1g, 2 pts, -3. 5 shots, 10 hits, 5 block shots, 53.7% on faceoffs. Killed penalties on the #4 ranked PK in the NHL. Plays center or wing.

Benson: 5GP 0 pts, -2, 3 shots, 7 hits. No blocks. Only a winger, plays zero special teams.

Now I am just a fan that played some hockey when I was a kid. I watch a lot of hockey on TV and go to as many games as I can. I try to follow stats and read up on things as much as I can or time allows. I have an opinion on a lot of things hockey related and the Oilers but I do nothing hockey related for my job and never will. I like to think that I know some things but I am not so arrogant that I think I know more and am smarter when it comes to what it takes and what is important to be an NHL player and contribute something to go against what people who make a living working in hockey or used to play the game.

With all that being said. With my limited knowledge as a fan and what it takes to be a pro hockey player and contribute in a pro game. When I see a player who has zeros for just about ALL of the stats you can have in a NHL game that I could look up quickly so it basically looks like he almost did nothing on the ice at all to contribute anything to the team winning in 5 games. Then compare them to another player who played similar games and I all kinds of usable stats that would have helped the team make plays and win games, not to mention he plays multiple positions, good on faceoffs and chips in on a really good special teams. I really have a hard time buying in that the team is better off having Shore sit out when healthy in place of Benson.

To be fair, Benson has been throwing hits at a higher rate than Shore this year, he's just played less minutes.

Shore is also averaging 1 PK shift per game (48 seconds), so I don't know that we can give him a ton of credit for the PKs success.

In terms of faceoffs, that does seem to be a plus for Shore, but because he plays so little, he's only averaging about 5 per game and has won 3 more faceoffs than he's lost this season. Again not something that I think is moving the needle in terms of wins and losses.

On the other hand, Shore is a guy that has been on the ice for 20 more goals against than goals for over the past 3 seasons. That is something that moves the needle. He's literally one of the worst players in the league over the past 3 seasons in 5x5 GF%.

I'm not saying that Tyler Benson is the answer. But given his success in the AHL, and the fact that we know the Oilers bottom 6 is not good, I don't see why they wouldn't give him more of a push.

So what are you saying to me, that nothing Shore did has any value what so ever?

I am not saying Shore is the key to the Oilers PK. He's not. But the point is he's played on it and contributed something to it. Whether it's 1 shift or 5, who cares. The point is, he CAN do it and he's done it. The Oilers deploy a fair amount of top 6 guys in the PK. Hyman, Nuge, Yamo. But if one of the Oilers main PK guys goes down in a game, (it does happen), or they need a break, he could be used on the PK and most likely can because he's done it before successfully.

You downplay his faceoffs because in your estimate he doesn't do enough. The Oilers don't play their 4th line a hell of a lot. So he doesn't get the opportunity to do them a lot. BUT. HE CAN DO THEM. He's at 53.66% this year and was 52.78% last season. So he's shown an ability to win a faceoff. The Oilers lost an OT game last playoff right off a faceoff loss because Khaira sucked at them. So if the Oilers get an icing and the 4th line is out there, there's a good chance Shore could win you a draw and get you out of your zone. Benson can't do that.

I am no a Shore lover but in the just over 8 mins of ice time he gets, his stat line says he can do something for your team. He's scored a goal, blocked some shots, won some draws. Benson has ZERO'S in his stat line. ZERO'S in very similar ice time. Take away the 48 seconds of PK time you basically think is meaningless and the 2 guys almost play exactly the same time on ice. Shore as some stats, Benson has ZERO.

In my opinion, you can't have a player no matter how much ice time they get contribute absolutely nothing on the ice. So if you only get 7 mins of ice time, then try to make that 7 mins as impactful as you can. DO SOMETHING when you are out there. All I hear over and over again about Benson is "Well he scored in the AHL". SO WHAT. There are 100's if not 1000's of players over the years who scored lots of points in the AHL and did nothing in the NHL. Benson has to go out there on the ice and freaking do something. He's got 3 shots on goal in 5 games. Play with some desperation.

Answer me this.

What exactly other than having good AHL stats has Benson done to date? I have nothing against the guy. The bottom 6 could use better players but is it not the job of the actual player to seize opportunity? Benson is in the game tonight. So if he puts up zeros again, who's fault is that other than his own?

Once again, you're focused on things that don't really matter, for instance, faceoff percentage.

Yes, 52% is greater than 50%, so if he takes 100 faceoffs, he'll win 4 more than he loses. That's not actually very significant. Khaira was 45% last year (55% this year, so maybe doesn't suck as much as you think), so it wasn't exactly a foregone conclusion he'd lose a critical draw, and even if he was 55%, he still could have lost that particular draw and got scored on.

One might point out that if the coaches were concerned about that, then it's a coaching error to have him take a critical defensive zone start, but that's a different question.

Shore getting a miniscule number of face-offs doesn't trump the fact that the guy has been caved in for goals against and shots against for the last two seasons. We know what we're getting and it ain't good. Even if it looks like he's REALLY TRYING out there.

As Goose says, Benson has shown he can play at other levels, so let's see what he can do here. It's not like the guys playing ahead of him are killing it. If they were, then I'm fine leaving him in the pressbox, but our bottom six is the worst in the league so let's mix it up, shall we?

As for your point about trusting the hockey guys because they're in the industry - it's unbelievable that any Oilers fan can say that after the last couple decades here. It's pretty clear that most posters in Oilfans could have done a better job than most of the GMs the team has had. I mean, when Tambellini is in the mix for best GM of the past two decades, it's pretty mind-boggling if you're still blindly following along and trusting these guys.

For coaches, possibly the best post-MacT coach was Tom Renney who's teams finished at the very bottom of the league going 57-85-22 in his two years.

You should probably not put blind trust in the hockey guys running this organization ever. Even if they "played the game".

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794681 is a reply to message #794657 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 14:47

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 08:53

Winnipeg sweep?

Hellebuyck always plays bad against us, like Carey Price.

That's my vague recollection of past events at least.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794682 is a reply to message #794679 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 15:22

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 14:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 14:12

Goose wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 13:22

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:59

I know they don't matter to you Adam. You are what, an arm chair GM, know it all fan that does whatever non NHL, non hockey related job you do for a living who posts on a fan site. Those things seem to matter to any coach or former coach you hear talk about the game. Any ex. NHL player who is a commentator or media guy. But what the hell do they know, they only work/played in the NHL while you post from your computer somewhere.

Here's the stat line for Shore and Benson.

Shore: 8 GP, 1g, 2 pts, -3. 5 shots, 10 hits, 5 block shots, 53.7% on faceoffs. Killed penalties on the #4 ranked PK in the NHL. Plays center or wing.

Benson: 5GP 0 pts, -2, 3 shots, 7 hits. No blocks. Only a winger, plays zero special teams.

Now I am just a fan that played some hockey when I was a kid. I watch a lot of hockey on TV and go to as many games as I can. I try to follow stats and read up on things as much as I can or time allows. I have an opinion on a lot of things hockey related and the Oilers but I do nothing hockey related for my job and never will. I like to think that I know some things but I am not so arrogant that I think I know more and am smarter when it comes to what it takes and what is important to be an NHL player and contribute something to go against what people who make a living working in hockey or used to play the game.

With all that being said. With my limited knowledge as a fan and what it takes to be a pro hockey player and contribute in a pro game. When I see a player who has zeros for just about ALL of the stats you can have in a NHL game that I could look up quickly so it basically looks like he almost did nothing on the ice at all to contribute anything to the team winning in 5 games. Then compare them to another player who played similar games and I all kinds of usable stats that would have helped the team make plays and win games, not to mention he plays multiple positions, good on faceoffs and chips in on a really good special teams. I really have a hard time buying in that the team is better off having Shore sit out when healthy in place of Benson.

To be fair, Benson has been throwing hits at a higher rate than Shore this year, he's just played less minutes.

Shore is also averaging 1 PK shift per game (48 seconds), so I don't know that we can give him a ton of credit for the PKs success.

In terms of faceoffs, that does seem to be a plus for Shore, but because he plays so little, he's only averaging about 5 per game and has won 3 more faceoffs than he's lost this season. Again not something that I think is moving the needle in terms of wins and losses.

On the other hand, Shore is a guy that has been on the ice for 20 more goals against than goals for over the past 3 seasons. That is something that moves the needle. He's literally one of the worst players in the league over the past 3 seasons in 5x5 GF%.

I'm not saying that Tyler Benson is the answer. But given his success in the AHL, and the fact that we know the Oilers bottom 6 is not good, I don't see why they wouldn't give him more of a push.

So what are you saying to me, that nothing Shore did has any value what so ever?

I am not saying Shore is the key to the Oilers PK. He's not. But the point is he's played on it and contributed something to it. Whether it's 1 shift or 5, who cares. The point is, he CAN do it and he's done it. The Oilers deploy a fair amount of top 6 guys in the PK. Hyman, Nuge, Yamo. But if one of the Oilers main PK guys goes down in a game, (it does happen), or they need a break, he could be used on the PK and most likely can because he's done it before successfully.

You downplay his faceoffs because in your estimate he doesn't do enough. The Oilers don't play their 4th line a hell of a lot. So he doesn't get the opportunity to do them a lot. BUT. HE CAN DO THEM. He's at 53.66% this year and was 52.78% last season. So he's shown an ability to win a faceoff. The Oilers lost an OT game last playoff right off a faceoff loss because Khaira sucked at them. So if the Oilers get an icing and the 4th line is out there, there's a good chance Shore could win you a draw and get you out of your zone. Benson can't do that.

I am no a Shore lover but in the just over 8 mins of ice time he gets, his stat line says he can do something for your team. He's scored a goal, blocked some shots, won some draws. Benson has ZERO'S in his stat line. ZERO'S in very similar ice time. Take away the 48 seconds of PK time you basically think is meaningless and the 2 guys almost play exactly the same time on ice. Shore as some stats, Benson has ZERO.

In my opinion, you can't have a player no matter how much ice time they get contribute absolutely nothing on the ice. So if you only get 7 mins of ice time, then try to make that 7 mins as impactful as you can. DO SOMETHING when you are out there. All I hear over and over again about Benson is "Well he scored in the AHL". SO WHAT. There are 100's if not 1000's of players over the years who scored lots of points in the AHL and did nothing in the NHL. Benson has to go out there on the ice and freaking do something. He's got 3 shots on goal in 5 games. Play with some desperation.

Answer me this.

What exactly other than having good AHL stats has Benson done to date? I have nothing against the guy. The bottom 6 could use better players but is it not the job of the actual player to seize opportunity? Benson is in the game tonight. So if he puts up zeros again, who's fault is that other than his own?

Once again, you're focused on things that don't really matter, for instance, faceoff percentage.

Yes, 52% is greater than 50%, so if he takes 100 faceoffs, he'll win 4 more than he loses. That's not actually very significant. Khaira was 45% last year (55% this year, so maybe doesn't suck as much as you think), so it wasn't exactly a foregone conclusion he'd lose a critical draw, and even if he was 55%, he still could have lost that particular draw and got scored on.

One might point out that if the coaches were concerned about that, then it's a coaching error to have him take a critical defensive zone start, but that's a different question.

Shore getting a miniscule number of face-offs doesn't trump the fact that the guy has been caved in for goals against and shots against for the last two seasons. We know what we're getting and it ain't good. Even if it looks like he's REALLY TRYING out there.

As Goose says, Benson has shown he can play at other levels, so let's see what he can do here. It's not like the guys playing ahead of him are killing it. If they were, then I'm fine leaving him in the pressbox, but our bottom six is the worst in the league so let's mix it up, shall we?

As for your point about trusting the hockey guys because they're in the industry - it's unbelievable that any Oilers fan can say that after the last couple decades here. It's pretty clear that most posters in Oilfans could have done a better job than most of the GMs the team has had. I mean, when Tambellini is in the mix for best GM of the past two decades, it's pretty mind-boggling if you're still blindly following along and trusting these guys.

For coaches, possibly the best post-MacT coach was Tom Renney who's teams finished at the very bottom of the league going 57-85-22 in his two years.

You should probably not put blind trust in the hockey guys running this organization ever. Even if they "played the game".

Well Benson has played 5 games so far and put up zeros. He's playing again tonight.

He doesn't play center what so ever. I know that all NHL coaches and ex players are stupid and Adam is smart. But I assume you aren't demoting one of the top 6 wingers in Hyman, JP, Nuge or Yamo for a guy who scored lots of points at the AHL? Am I wrong again in assuming you wouldn't do that?

For the bottom 6, as I said he doesn't play center, so there is only 4 spots left. I assume you aren't playing an AHL player over Foegele or Kassian, 2 proven NHL bottom 6 guys. They would be on most teams 3rd line vs the jury is out on Benson if he would make anyone team.

I personally do not think Benson is a better NHL player than any of the top 6 wingers of the 2 wingers on the 3rd line. So he's down to 4th line mins. I have no issue trying him on the 4th line. Now of course Adam, you are all knowing and smarter than all coaches, GM's and ex players and all fans, so maybe there is some brand new rules out there that the NHL is implementing that gives credit for AHL scoring in the NHL that I or no one is aware about yet. But if there isn't, at some point Benson has to do more than just score at the AHL level to warrant being in the NHL every night.

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794684 is a reply to message #794651 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 15:50

NCREDiBLE
Messages: 258
Registered: February 2007
Location: Cold Lake, AB

No Cups

I'd hope we have someone different than both Shore & Benson on that 4th LW next season.
I don't know why we continue to have the worst bottom 6 yearly...

in other news... I'm excited to see how Skinner rebounds tonight.

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794686 is a reply to message #794682 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 17:16

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 15:22

Adam wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 14:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 14:12

Goose wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 13:22

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 10:59

I know they don't matter to you Adam. You are what, an arm chair GM, know it all fan that does whatever non NHL, non hockey related job you do for a living who posts on a fan site. Those things seem to matter to any coach or former coach you hear talk about the game. Any ex. NHL player who is a commentator or media guy. But what the hell do they know, they only work/played in the NHL while you post from your computer somewhere.

Here's the stat line for Shore and Benson.

Shore: 8 GP, 1g, 2 pts, -3. 5 shots, 10 hits, 5 block shots, 53.7% on faceoffs. Killed penalties on the #4 ranked PK in the NHL. Plays center or wing.

Benson: 5GP 0 pts, -2, 3 shots, 7 hits. No blocks. Only a winger, plays zero special teams.

Now I am just a fan that played some hockey when I was a kid. I watch a lot of hockey on TV and go to as many games as I can. I try to follow stats and read up on things as much as I can or time allows. I have an opinion on a lot of things hockey related and the Oilers but I do nothing hockey related for my job and never will. I like to think that I know some things but I am not so arrogant that I think I know more and am smarter when it comes to what it takes and what is important to be an NHL player and contribute something to go against what people who make a living working in hockey or used to play the game.

With all that being said. With my limited knowledge as a fan and what it takes to be a pro hockey player and contribute in a pro game. When I see a player who has zeros for just about ALL of the stats you can have in a NHL game that I could look up quickly so it basically looks like he almost did nothing on the ice at all to contribute anything to the team winning in 5 games. Then compare them to another player who played similar games and I all kinds of usable stats that would have helped the team make plays and win games, not to mention he plays multiple positions, good on faceoffs and chips in on a really good special teams. I really have a hard time buying in that the team is better off having Shore sit out when healthy in place of Benson.

To be fair, Benson has been throwing hits at a higher rate than Shore this year, he's just played less minutes.

Shore is also averaging 1 PK shift per game (48 seconds), so I don't know that we can give him a ton of credit for the PKs success.

In terms of faceoffs, that does seem to be a plus for Shore, but because he plays so little, he's only averaging about 5 per game and has won 3 more faceoffs than he's lost this season. Again not something that I think is moving the needle in terms of wins and losses.

On the other hand, Shore is a guy that has been on the ice for 20 more goals against than goals for over the past 3 seasons. That is something that moves the needle. He's literally one of the worst players in the league over the past 3 seasons in 5x5 GF%.

I'm not saying that Tyler Benson is the answer. But given his success in the AHL, and the fact that we know the Oilers bottom 6 is not good, I don't see why they wouldn't give him more of a push.

So what are you saying to me, that nothing Shore did has any value what so ever?

I am not saying Shore is the key to the Oilers PK. He's not. But the point is he's played on it and contributed something to it. Whether it's 1 shift or 5, who cares. The point is, he CAN do it and he's done it. The Oilers deploy a fair amount of top 6 guys in the PK. Hyman, Nuge, Yamo. But if one of the Oilers main PK guys goes down in a game, (it does happen), or they need a break, he could be used on the PK and most likely can because he's done it before successfully.

You downplay his faceoffs because in your estimate he doesn't do enough. The Oilers don't play their 4th line a hell of a lot. So he doesn't get the opportunity to do them a lot. BUT. HE CAN DO THEM. He's at 53.66% this year and was 52.78% last season. So he's shown an ability to win a faceoff. The Oilers lost an OT game last playoff right off a faceoff loss because Khaira sucked at them. So if the Oilers get an icing and the 4th line is out there, there's a good chance Shore could win you a draw and get you out of your zone. Benson can't do that.

I am no a Shore lover but in the just over 8 mins of ice time he gets, his stat line says he can do something for your team. He's scored a goal, blocked some shots, won some draws. Benson has ZERO'S in his stat line. ZERO'S in very similar ice time. Take away the 48 seconds of PK time you basically think is meaningless and the 2 guys almost play exactly the same time on ice. Shore as some stats, Benson has ZERO.

In my opinion, you can't have a player no matter how much ice time they get contribute absolutely nothing on the ice. So if you only get 7 mins of ice time, then try to make that 7 mins as impactful as you can. DO SOMETHING when you are out there. All I hear over and over again about Benson is "Well he scored in the AHL". SO WHAT. There are 100's if not 1000's of players over the years who scored lots of points in the AHL and did nothing in the NHL. Benson has to go out there on the ice and freaking do something. He's got 3 shots on goal in 5 games. Play with some desperation.

Answer me this.

What exactly other than having good AHL stats has Benson done to date? I have nothing against the guy. The bottom 6 could use better players but is it not the job of the actual player to seize opportunity? Benson is in the game tonight. So if he puts up zeros again, who's fault is that other than his own?

Once again, you're focused on things that don't really matter, for instance, faceoff percentage.

Yes, 52% is greater than 50%, so if he takes 100 faceoffs, he'll win 4 more than he loses. That's not actually very significant. Khaira was 45% last year (55% this year, so maybe doesn't suck as much as you think), so it wasn't exactly a foregone conclusion he'd lose a critical draw, and even if he was 55%, he still could have lost that particular draw and got scored on.

One might point out that if the coaches were concerned about that, then it's a coaching error to have him take a critical defensive zone start, but that's a different question.

Shore getting a miniscule number of face-offs doesn't trump the fact that the guy has been caved in for goals against and shots against for the last two seasons. We know what we're getting and it ain't good. Even if it looks like he's REALLY TRYING out there.

As Goose says, Benson has shown he can play at other levels, so let's see what he can do here. It's not like the guys playing ahead of him are killing it. If they were, then I'm fine leaving him in the pressbox, but our bottom six is the worst in the league so let's mix it up, shall we?

As for your point about trusting the hockey guys because they're in the industry - it's unbelievable that any Oilers fan can say that after the last couple decades here. It's pretty clear that most posters in Oilfans could have done a better job than most of the GMs the team has had. I mean, when Tambellini is in the mix for best GM of the past two decades, it's pretty mind-boggling if you're still blindly following along and trusting these guys.

For coaches, possibly the best post-MacT coach was Tom Renney who's teams finished at the very bottom of the league going 57-85-22 in his two years.

You should probably not put blind trust in the hockey guys running this organization ever. Even if they "played the game".

Well Benson has played 5 games so far and put up zeros. He's playing again tonight.

He doesn't play center what so ever. I know that all NHL coaches and ex players are stupid and Adam is smart. But I assume you aren't demoting one of the top 6 wingers in Hyman, JP, Nuge or Yamo for a guy who scored lots of points at the AHL? Am I wrong again in assuming you wouldn't do that?

For the bottom 6, as I said he doesn't play center, so there is only 4 spots left. I assume you aren't playing an AHL player over Foegele or Kassian, 2 proven NHL bottom 6 guys. They would be on most teams 3rd line vs the jury is out on Benson if he would make anyone team.

I personally do not think Benson is a better NHL player than any of the top 6 wingers of the 2 wingers on the 3rd line. So he's down to 4th line mins. I have no issue trying him on the 4th line. Now of course Adam, you are all knowing and smarter than all coaches, GM's and ex players and all fans, so maybe there is some brand new rules out there that the NHL is implementing that gives credit for AHL scoring in the NHL that I or no one is aware about yet. But if there isn't, at some point Benson has to do more than just score at the AHL level to warrant being in the NHL every night.

As I've said before, smart teams aren't asking anyone to play like "bottom 6" players. They're asking their players, all of them, to out-play the people that you're up against when you're on the ice. If you are outperforming the winger above you, you may move up and he may move down, because it doesn't matter - there should be no such thing as a dedicated checker because having someone who's job isn't outscoring the other team isn't valuable.

So no, I'm not pushing anyone out of the top six. I'm playing Benson on the 4th line, against the other team's fourth line and I'm asking him to outscore them. I'm trying to avoid matchups that have the top line on against our top guys, and ideally, I'm giving them enough minutes that they can meaningfully be said to have played in the game. If I bench them after 4 minutes, then they have had zero impact because they barely got their legs moving.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794689 is a reply to message #794677 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 17:29

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 18 November 2021 13:12

So what are you saying to me, that nothing Shore did has any value what so ever?

I am not saying Shore is the key to the Oilers PK. He's not. But the point is he's played on it and contributed something to it. Whether it's 1 shift or 5, who cares. The point is, he CAN do it and he's done it. The Oilers deploy a fair amount of top 6 guys in the PK. Hyman, Nuge, Yamo. But if one of the Oilers main PK guys goes down in a game, (it does happen), or they need a break, he could be used on the PK and most likely can because he's done it before successfully.

You downplay his faceoffs because in your estimate he doesn't do enough. The Oilers don't play their 4th line a hell of a lot. So he doesn't get the opportunity to do them a lot. BUT. HE CAN DO THEM. He's at 53.66% this year and was 52.78% last season. So he's shown an ability to win a faceoff. The Oilers lost an OT game last playoff right off a faceoff loss because Khaira sucked at them. So if the Oilers get an icing and the 4th line is out there, there's a good chance Shore could win you a draw and get you out of your zone. Benson can't do that.

I am no a Shore lover but in the just over 8 mins of ice time he gets, his stat line says he can do something for your team. He's scored a goal, blocked some shots, won some draws. Benson has ZERO'S in his stat line. ZERO'S in very similar ice time. Take away the 48 seconds of PK time you basically think is meaningless and the 2 guys almost play exactly the same time on ice. Shore as some stats, Benson has ZERO.

In my opinion, you can't have a player no matter how much ice time they get contribute absolutely nothing on the ice. So if you only get 7 mins of ice time, then try to make that 7 mins as impactful as you can. DO SOMETHING when you are out there. All I hear over and over again about Benson is "Well he scored in the AHL". SO WHAT. There are 100's if not 1000's of players over the years who scored lots of points in the AHL and did nothing in the NHL. Benson has to go out there on the ice and freaking do something. He's got 3 shots on goal in 5 games. Play with some desperation.

Answer me this.

What exactly other than having good AHL stats has Benson done to date? I have nothing against the guy. The bottom 6 could use better players but is it not the job of the actual player to seize opportunity? Benson is in the game tonight. So if he puts up zeros again, who's fault is that other than his own?

No, I'm not saying that anything that Shore does has no value. What I'm saying is that any value he provides is erased,and then some, by the extremely bad results he has in terms of goal differential. And this isn't just a one off, he had one good year (his first full year in Dallas), one okay year in 18/19 and the rest of his career has been at 40% or less, which is terrible. Like I said previously, he's literally one of the worst forwards in the league by this metric over the past 3 years. And he hasn't just been on a run of bad luck, his shot metrics have also been terrible. Like what does it matter if he wins 60% of his faceoffs in a game if his line is on the ice for 2 goals against in 9 minutes of ice time?

I'm open to the idea that Dave Tippett shares some of the blame here as the Oilers in general are terrible in the bottom 6, despite switching out a bunch of personnel. But there is nothing in Shore's history that indicates he has a lot of upside here. He's played 334 NHL games, this is who he is.

As for Benson, it's totally fair to say that he hasn't done anything of note at the NHL level. But he's played 12 games. I would think that you, of all people, would be hesitant to write off a player after a very small NHL sample. I'm not saying he needs to be guaranteed a job, but scoring a point per game in the AHL isn't nothing. Maybe, as you say, there are a lot of guys that were able to score at the AHL level that were never able to make the jump to the NHL. But there are also a lot of guys that spent time in the AHL, had success, and then became productive players in the NHL. I know it's hard to imagine because the Oilers seem to find it impossible to draft anyone outside of the first round and develop them in the AHL, but hopefully that is changing. So let the guy have 4-5 games in a row with decent minutes, ideally play him with McLeod whom he has some familiarity with (but I don't think this is a necessity), and see what he can do playing against other team's 4th lines.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794691 is a reply to message #794684 ]	Thu, 18 November 2021 18:58

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

I’m not done with Benson. Some guys were writing off Puljujarvi not that long ago and from my experience watching hockey is it doesn’t always happen all at once. Besides one game in the preseason where Benson was manhandled off the puck, I haven’t seen him do anything horrendous.

He’s no worse than what’s already out there and has room for growth. The rest of the bottom 6, save for a couple, we already know what we have and it’s underwhelming.

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794791 is a reply to message #794686 ]	Fri, 19 November 2021 10:59

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Benson is 1 for 1 on NHL facoffs...

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794795 is a reply to message #794791 ]	Fri, 19 November 2021 11:19

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Fri, 19 November 2021 10:59

Benson is 1 for 1 on NHL facoffs...

100% is impressive. Maybe we should have had him out there for that draw that Khaira lost last year?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Winnipeg @ Edmonton (Game #16) [message #794796 is a reply to message #794795 ]	Fri, 19 November 2021 11:25

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Does the AHL not keep FO stats?
I can't find anything on that outside of NHL. I was trying to see how he'd fared before getting his call up.

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