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Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794506]	Tue, 16 November 2021 02:00

OilFans
Messages: 1559
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

2

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Edmonton to win:	0%
Winnipeg to win:	0%
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2021-22 Regular Season
Tuesday, November 16, 2021 Edmonton 2 @ Winnipeg 5 Loss
Thursday, November 18, 2021 Winnipeg 1 @ Edmonton 2 (OT) (SO) Win
Saturday, February 19, 2022 Edmonton 4 @ Winnipeg 2 Win
Home Record: 1-0-0 Road Record: 1-1-0 Overall Record: 2-1-0
Home / Road Goals For: 2/6 Total: 8
Home / Road Goals Against: 1/7 Total: 8

2020-21 Regular Season
Sunday, January 24, 2021 Edmonton 4 @ Winnipeg 3 Win
Tuesday, January 26, 2021 Edmonton 4 @ Winnipeg 6 Loss
Monday, February 15, 2021 Winnipeg 6 @ Edmonton 5 Loss
Wednesday, February 17, 2021 Winnipeg 2 @ Edmonton 3 Win
Thursday, March 18, 2021 Winnipeg 1 @ Edmonton 2 Win
Saturday, March 20, 2021 Winnipeg 2 @ Edmonton 4 Win
Saturday, April 17, 2021 Edmonton 3 @ Winnipeg 0 Win
Monday, April 26, 2021 Edmonton 6 @ Winnipeg 1 Win
Wednesday, April 28, 2021 Edmonton 3 @ Winnipeg 1 Win
Home Record: 3-1-0 Road Record: 4-1-0 Overall Record: 7-2-0
Home / Road Goals For: 14/20 Total: 34
Home / Road Goals Against: 11/11 Total: 22

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794508 is a reply to message #794506 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 08:12

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Home and home with the Jets? 4 points here would be masimo! Hope you all drive safe in this snow, your safe arrivals are as musty as this game!

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794509 is a reply to message #794506 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 08:12

NetBOG
Messages: 2948
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

I hope the Oilers dominate, but the Jets (like the Blues) are Oiler kryptonite. Heavy and skilled, refs won't make calls. A split of this home and home is ok.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794512 is a reply to message #794509 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 08:33

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I am hoping the Oilers are still a little sour from the playoffs. They outshot, for large stretches out played and out chanced the Jets but couldn't beat Hellebuyck. With how far Montreal went, they have to be a little bitter. Hopefully they come out pretty inspired.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794525 is a reply to message #794506 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 10:28

NCREDiBLE
Messages: 258
Registered: February 2007
Location: Cold Lake, AB

No Cups

I really hope they punish them for what happened in the playoffs.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794527 is a reply to message #794509 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 10:38

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 08:12

I hope the Oilers dominate, but the Jets (like the Blues) are Oiler kryptonite. Heavy and skilled, refs won't make calls. A split of this home and home is ok.

We crushed them all year last year other than the playoffs. I hardly look at them as unbeatable.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794528 is a reply to message #794506 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 11:14

NCREDiBLE
Messages: 258
Registered: February 2007
Location: Cold Lake, AB

No Cups

Kassian back tonight as per Oilers Nation

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794529 is a reply to message #794528 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 12:52

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Oilers lines.

Hyman – McDavid – Puljujarvi
RNH – Draisaitl – Yamamoto
Foegele – McLeod – Kassian
Perlini – Ryan – Turris

Nurse – Bouchard
Keith – Ceci
Koekkoek – Barrie

Koskinen

If McLeod has figured out that he doesn't have to run around hitting everything that moves with huge hits, just finish his checks, use his speed to go hard to the net and don't be a perimeter player, that 3rd line has all the makings to be good. Which would allow Ryan to be the 4th line center and he would be an excellent 4th line center.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794532 is a reply to message #794529 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 15:25

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 12:52

Oilers lines.

Hyman – McDavid – Puljujarvi
RNH – Draisaitl – Yamamoto
Foegele – McLeod – Kassian
Perlini – Ryan – Turris

Nurse – Bouchard
Keith – Ceci
Koekkoek – Barrie

Koskinen

If McLeod has figured out that he doesn't have to run around hitting everything that moves with huge hits, just finish his checks, use his speed to go hard to the net and don't be a perimeter player, that 3rd line has all the makings to be good. Which would allow Ryan to be the 4th line center and he would be an excellent 4th line center.

I wish Tippett would stop with trying to make Turris a thing again. I'd rather see Benson in there.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794538 is a reply to message #794506 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 16:18

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

If you're Betting on tonight's game, this is the 3rd team you need to include in your considerations.

Tonight's BETman Team
https://scoutingtherefs.com/2019-20-nhl-referee-stats/

Chris Schlenker #3
Home win %: 59%
PP/g: 3.5

http://scoutingtherefs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/CS03.jpg

Graham Skilliter #24
Home win %: 63%
PP/g: 3.0

http://scoutingtherefs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/GS24.jpg

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794539 is a reply to message #794532 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 16:20

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 14:25

I wish Tippett would stop with trying to make Turris a thing again. I'd rather see Benson in there.

Agree on Turris.. not convinced Benson is any better.. and I've been pulling for Benson since he was drafted.. Both missing a gear.. although Benson has a lot more tenacity.

Turris looks like he's OD'd on Chamomile tea.. zzz.. zzz..

https://s3.images-iherb.com/twn/twn22504/w/24.jpg

[Updated on: Tue, 16 November 2021 16:23]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794540 is a reply to message #794539 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 16:23

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 16:20

Adam wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 14:25

I wish Tippett would stop with trying to make Turris a thing again. I'd rather see Benson in there.

Agree on Turris.. not convinced Benson is any better.

Only way we're ever going to find out is if he gets in and Tippett gives him more than 3-5 minutes a game.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794541 is a reply to message #794532 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 16:31

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 15:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 12:52

Oilers lines.

Hyman – McDavid – Puljujarvi
RNH – Draisaitl – Yamamoto
Foegele – McLeod – Kassian
Perlini – Ryan – Turris

Nurse – Bouchard
Keith – Ceci
Koekkoek – Barrie

Koskinen

If McLeod has figured out that he doesn't have to run around hitting everything that moves with huge hits, just finish his checks, use his speed to go hard to the net and don't be a perimeter player, that 3rd line has all the makings to be good. Which would allow Ryan to be the 4th line center and he would be an excellent 4th line center.

I wish Tippett would stop with trying to make Turris a thing again. I'd rather see Benson in there.

I am not a fan of Turris but I don't think Benson is better. He's a square peg in a round hole. He's a cerebral, slow the game down, east-west set up man, when bottom 6 guys should be energy, speed the game up, forecheck, north south guys. At least Turris can shoot a little something Benson does not.

To me he is in the top 6 on a bad team or in Europe.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794545 is a reply to message #794541 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 17:34

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 16:31

Adam wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 15:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 12:52

Oilers lines.

Hyman – McDavid – Puljujarvi
RNH – Draisaitl – Yamamoto
Foegele – McLeod – Kassian
Perlini – Ryan – Turris

Nurse – Bouchard
Keith – Ceci
Koekkoek – Barrie

Koskinen

If McLeod has figured out that he doesn't have to run around hitting everything that moves with huge hits, just finish his checks, use his speed to go hard to the net and don't be a perimeter player, that 3rd line has all the makings to be good. Which would allow Ryan to be the 4th line center and he would be an excellent 4th line center.

I wish Tippett would stop with trying to make Turris a thing again. I'd rather see Benson in there.

I am not a fan of Turris but I don't think Benson is better. He's a square peg in a round hole. He's a cerebral, slow the game down, east-west set up man, when bottom 6 guys should be energy, speed the game up, forecheck, north south guys. At least Turris can shoot a little something Benson does not.

To me he is in the top 6 on a bad team or in Europe.

I don’t know if Turris puts more pucks on net. Benson has 5 shots in 38 minutes of TOI, while Turris has 9 shots in 93 minutes TOI. Neither are moving the offensive dial, but considering Turris has gotten a small sample of PP2 and has been ineffective, I’d like to see the kid get a shot.

Either way, my expectations are low.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794546 is a reply to message #794538 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 17:37

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 16:18

If you're Betting on tonight's game, this is the 3rd team you need to include in your considerations.

Tonight's BETman Team
https://scoutingtherefs.com/2019-20-nhl-referee-stats/

Chris Schlenker #3
Home win %: 59%
PP/g: 3.5

http://scoutingtherefs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/CS03.jpg

Graham Skilliter #24
Home win %: 63%
PP/g: 3.0

http://scoutingtherefs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/GS24.jpg

Could they possibly be worse? You’d think they’d have seen the replays and won’t want to look like 2/3 of the 3 blind mice again.

…..I’ve been using this reasoning for two plus years now, with no evidence to support my argument.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794551 is a reply to message #794532 ]	Tue, 16 November 2021 18:13

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 14:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 12:52

Oilers lines.

Hyman – McDavid – Puljujarvi
RNH – Draisaitl – Yamamoto
Foegele – McLeod – Kassian
Perlini – Ryan – Turris

Nurse – Bouchard
Keith – Ceci
Koekkoek – Barrie

Koskinen

If McLeod has figured out that he doesn't have to run around hitting everything that moves with huge hits, just finish his checks, use his speed to go hard to the net and don't be a perimeter player, that 3rd line has all the makings to be good. Which would allow Ryan to be the 4th line center and he would be an excellent 4th line center.

I wish Tippett would stop with trying to make Turris a thing again. I'd rather see Benson in there.

Back in the days of Dave's Arizona Coyotes, Perlini and Turris had some real nice practices.

Clean house or bust

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794586 is a reply to message #794541 ]	Wed, 17 November 2021 00:27

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 16:31

Adam wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 15:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 12:52

Oilers lines.

Hyman – McDavid – Puljujarvi
RNH – Draisaitl – Yamamoto
Foegele – McLeod – Kassian
Perlini – Ryan – Turris

Nurse – Bouchard
Keith – Ceci
Koekkoek – Barrie

Koskinen

If McLeod has figured out that he doesn't have to run around hitting everything that moves with huge hits, just finish his checks, use his speed to go hard to the net and don't be a perimeter player, that 3rd line has all the makings to be good. Which would allow Ryan to be the 4th line center and he would be an excellent 4th line center.

I wish Tippett would stop with trying to make Turris a thing again. I'd rather see Benson in there.

I am not a fan of Turris but I don't think Benson is better. He's a square peg in a round hole. He's a cerebral, slow the game down, east-west set up man, when bottom 6 guys should be energy, speed the game up, forecheck, north south guys. At least Turris can shoot a little something Benson does not.

To me he is in the top 6 on a bad team or in Europe.

This is old thinking. There's no such thing as what a bottom 6 guy should be that's any different from what a top-6 guy should be. If you just think your bottom 6 is for penalty killers and throwing a few hits, then you end up as the Edmonton Oilers - sucking whenever those lines are on the ice for years. Good teams put cheap young players who can move the needle offensively in their bottom 6 and try to outscore the other team's depth...especially if that depth is just running around trying to land a hit to provide some "energy".

Besides, if you have good scoring depth from your bottom six, it provides pressure on your top 6 players to keep producing or they'll be replaced by someone from behind. It would really be nice to see Oilers management leave this Dark Age thinking behind.

[Updated on: Wed, 17 November 2021 00:28]

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794587 is a reply to message #794586 ]	Wed, 17 November 2021 01:38

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 November 2021 01:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 16:31

Adam wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 15:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 12:52

Oilers lines.

Hyman – McDavid – Puljujarvi
RNH – Draisaitl – Yamamoto
Foegele – McLeod – Kassian
Perlini – Ryan – Turris

Nurse – Bouchard
Keith – Ceci
Koekkoek – Barrie

Koskinen

If McLeod has figured out that he doesn't have to run around hitting everything that moves with huge hits, just finish his checks, use his speed to go hard to the net and don't be a perimeter player, that 3rd line has all the makings to be good. Which would allow Ryan to be the 4th line center and he would be an excellent 4th line center.

I wish Tippett would stop with trying to make Turris a thing again. I'd rather see Benson in there.

I am not a fan of Turris but I don't think Benson is better. He's a square peg in a round hole. He's a cerebral, slow the game down, east-west set up man, when bottom 6 guys should be energy, speed the game up, forecheck, north south guys. At least Turris can shoot a little something Benson does not.

To me he is in the top 6 on a bad team or in Europe.

This is old thinking. There's no such thing as what a bottom 6 guy should be that's any different from what a top-6 guy should be. If you just think your bottom 6 is for penalty killers and throwing a few hits, then you end up as the Edmonton Oilers - sucking whenever those lines are on the ice for years. Good teams put cheap young players who can move the needle offensively in their bottom 6 and try to outscore the other team's depth...especially if that depth is just running around trying to land a hit to provide some "energy".

Besides, if you have good scoring depth from your bottom six, it provides pressure on your top 6 players to keep producing or they'll be replaced by someone from behind. It would really be nice to see Oilers management leave this Dark Age thinking behind.

You’re not wrong in this post... but I don’t think you’re correct in that Benson fits this mold at this level, albeit based on limited opportunity.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794597 is a reply to message #794587 ]	Wed, 17 November 2021 08:59

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 17 November 2021 01:38

You’re not wrong in this post... but I don’t think you’re correct in that Benson fits this mold at this level, albeit based on limited opportunity.

We haven't seen Tippett take the training wheels off for Benson or McLeod. Both expected to play perfect hockey, focusing on defence and playing very low minutes. They've had success together, so give them a chance and see what they can do. We have 1.25 seasons of info on Turris here. He scores at a low rate and gives up goals against at a high rate. So maybe try something different?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794600 is a reply to message #794586 ]	Wed, 17 November 2021 09:28

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 November 2021 00:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 16:31

Adam wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 15:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 12:52

Oilers lines.

Hyman – McDavid – Puljujarvi
RNH – Draisaitl – Yamamoto
Foegele – McLeod – Kassian
Perlini – Ryan – Turris

Nurse – Bouchard
Keith – Ceci
Koekkoek – Barrie

Koskinen

If McLeod has figured out that he doesn't have to run around hitting everything that moves with huge hits, just finish his checks, use his speed to go hard to the net and don't be a perimeter player, that 3rd line has all the makings to be good. Which would allow Ryan to be the 4th line center and he would be an excellent 4th line center.

I wish Tippett would stop with trying to make Turris a thing again. I'd rather see Benson in there.

I am not a fan of Turris but I don't think Benson is better. He's a square peg in a round hole. He's a cerebral, slow the game down, east-west set up man, when bottom 6 guys should be energy, speed the game up, forecheck, north south guys. At least Turris can shoot a little something Benson does not.

To me he is in the top 6 on a bad team or in Europe.

This is old thinking. There's no such thing as what a bottom 6 guy should be that's any different from what a top-6 guy should be. If you just think your bottom 6 is for penalty killers and throwing a few hits, then you end up as the Edmonton Oilers - sucking whenever those lines are on the ice for years. Good teams put cheap young players who can move the needle offensively in their bottom 6 and try to outscore the other team's depth...especially if that depth is just running around trying to land a hit to provide some "energy".

Besides, if you have good scoring depth from your bottom six, it provides pressure on your top 6 players to keep producing or they'll be replaced by someone from behind. It would really be nice to see Oilers management leave this Dark Age thinking behind.

I couldn't disagree more with you and it's not "old thinking". To be an NHL player you have to DO SOMETHING on the ice. What does Benson do? Explain to me what Benson's game is because from everything I can find written about and then comparing them to his stats at all levels, he's not a big goal scorer, never has been. He doesn't own a great shot. His skating is always listed as a problem and in the NHL where skating has become extremely important, that's a problem. He's never been known as a very good defensive guy. He's not big, tough or overly physical. He's never been seen as an energy guy. He's not even a center. He's supposedly a smart set up guy who plays wing. Generally if you are a set up guy, you usually play center, not wing.

In my opinion, for Benson to have ANY chance to succeed, he needs to be in the top 6. I say that because nothing he does is elite and since his skating isn't great, he probably will need a ton of ice time to accomplish something because 9 times out of 10 he will not have enough time or space to make a play because he's not fast enough. So he needs top 6 mins playing on a line with 2 shooters who are fast and aggressive.

So Adam, who are you going to pull from the top 6 to give Benson a fair shot in your estimation? Because if you aren't in the top 6, a player has to do SOMETHING of value to play in the NHL other than give guys a rest and once in a blue moon make a tape to tape pass on the rare occasion he gets any kind of time. I know he doesn't get a ton of ice time but any time he plays, there is little to know urgency in his game to do anything. It's not like the Oilers bottom 6 these days is shooting the lights out so if he did anything of value what so ever, he'd probably get more ice time or more games. I looked up his stats, in 5 games, he's got 3 shots. That's it and is -2. WOW!!! How are they not throwing this guy over the boards more with stats like that.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794603 is a reply to message #794600 ]	Wed, 17 November 2021 09:47

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 November 2021 09:28

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 November 2021 00:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 16:31

Adam wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 15:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 12:52

Oilers lines.

Hyman – McDavid – Puljujarvi
RNH – Draisaitl – Yamamoto
Foegele – McLeod – Kassian
Perlini – Ryan – Turris

Nurse – Bouchard
Keith – Ceci
Koekkoek – Barrie

Koskinen

If McLeod has figured out that he doesn't have to run around hitting everything that moves with huge hits, just finish his checks, use his speed to go hard to the net and don't be a perimeter player, that 3rd line has all the makings to be good. Which would allow Ryan to be the 4th line center and he would be an excellent 4th line center.

I wish Tippett would stop with trying to make Turris a thing again. I'd rather see Benson in there.

I am not a fan of Turris but I don't think Benson is better. He's a square peg in a round hole. He's a cerebral, slow the game down, east-west set up man, when bottom 6 guys should be energy, speed the game up, forecheck, north south guys. At least Turris can shoot a little something Benson does not.

To me he is in the top 6 on a bad team or in Europe.

This is old thinking. There's no such thing as what a bottom 6 guy should be that's any different from what a top-6 guy should be. If you just think your bottom 6 is for penalty killers and throwing a few hits, then you end up as the Edmonton Oilers - sucking whenever those lines are on the ice for years. Good teams put cheap young players who can move the needle offensively in their bottom 6 and try to outscore the other team's depth...especially if that depth is just running around trying to land a hit to provide some "energy".

Besides, if you have good scoring depth from your bottom six, it provides pressure on your top 6 players to keep producing or they'll be replaced by someone from behind. It would really be nice to see Oilers management leave this Dark Age thinking behind.

I couldn't disagree more with you and it's not "old thinking". To be an NHL player you have to DO SOMETHING on the ice. What does Benson do? Explain to me what Benson's game is because from everything I can find written about and then comparing them to his stats at all levels, he's not a big goal scorer, never has been. He doesn't own a great shot. His skating is always listed as a problem and in the NHL where skating has become extremely important, that's a problem. He's never been known as a very good defensive guy. He's not big, tough or overly physical. He's never been seen as an energy guy. He's not even a center. He's supposedly a smart set up guy who plays wing. Generally if you are a set up guy, you usually play center, not wing.

In my opinion, for Benson to have ANY chance to succeed, he needs to be in the top 6. I say that because nothing he does is elite and since his skating isn't great, he probably will need a ton of ice time to accomplish something because 9 times out of 10 he will not have enough time or space to make a play because he's not fast enough. So he needs top 6 mins playing on a line with 2 shooters who are fast and aggressive.

So Adam, who are you going to pull from the top 6 to give Benson a fair shot in your estimation? Because if you aren't in the top 6, a player has to do SOMETHING of value to play in the NHL other than give guys a rest and once in a blue moon make a tape to tape pass on the rare occasion he gets any kind of time. I know he doesn't get a ton of ice time but any time he plays, there is little to know urgency in his game to do anything. It's not like the Oilers bottom 6 these days is shooting the lights out so if he did anything of value what so ever, he'd probably get more ice time or more games. I looked up his stats, in 5 games, he's got 3 shots. That's it and is -2. WOW!!! How are they not throwing this guy over the boards more with stats like that.

I'm not pulling anyone from the top 6. I'm playing him with McLeod on the third or fourth line. I'm giving him a bit of a push in that position to see if he can produce. If he can't then I'm cycling him down and bringing up someone else who's contributing in the AHL and trying them there. I am not benching him for the night if the line gives up a goal, especially if he wasn't directly responsible for it being scored, because that doesn't actually teach anyone anything.

I am not tasking these guys with just being perfect defensively, I'm asking them to outscore the opposition. I think that's a subtle, but significant difference from what Tippett is doing.

I am probably working on building up these guys too - you lit up the AHL, most of these 4th liners you'll be playing are at the same level or worse than the ones you lit up down there. Just do what you need to do and don't overthink it or play scared of making mistakes.

To be an NHL player, you need to outscore the opposition. You don't need to be there to make hits, or "provide a spark", or just give 110% or grit it out or whatever other idiotic thing Bob Stauffer thinks 4th liners are for. You need to score more goals than the other guys when you're on the ice. That's it.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794605 is a reply to message #794506 ]	Wed, 17 November 2021 10:15

NCREDiBLE
Messages: 258
Registered: February 2007
Location: Cold Lake, AB

No Cups

Koskinen back to letting in non NHL caliber shots. Please don't be back next year.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794606 is a reply to message #794603 ]	Wed, 17 November 2021 10:18

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 November 2021 09:47

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 November 2021 09:28

Adam wrote on Wed, 17 November 2021 00:27

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 16:31

Adam wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 15:25

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 16 November 2021 12:52

Oilers lines.

Hyman – McDavid – Puljujarvi
RNH – Draisaitl – Yamamoto
Foegele – McLeod – Kassian
Perlini – Ryan – Turris

Nurse – Bouchard
Keith – Ceci
Koekkoek – Barrie

Koskinen

If McLeod has figured out that he doesn't have to run around hitting everything that moves with huge hits, just finish his checks, use his speed to go hard to the net and don't be a perimeter player, that 3rd line has all the makings to be good. Which would allow Ryan to be the 4th line center and he would be an excellent 4th line center.

I wish Tippett would stop with trying to make Turris a thing again. I'd rather see Benson in there.

I am not a fan of Turris but I don't think Benson is better. He's a square peg in a round hole. He's a cerebral, slow the game down, east-west set up man, when bottom 6 guys should be energy, speed the game up, forecheck, north south guys. At least Turris can shoot a little something Benson does not.

To me he is in the top 6 on a bad team or in Europe.

This is old thinking. There's no such thing as what a bottom 6 guy should be that's any different from what a top-6 guy should be. If you just think your bottom 6 is for penalty killers and throwing a few hits, then you end up as the Edmonton Oilers - sucking whenever those lines are on the ice for years. Good teams put cheap young players who can move the needle offensively in their bottom 6 and try to outscore the other team's depth...especially if that depth is just running around trying to land a hit to provide some "energy".

Besides, if you have good scoring depth from your bottom six, it provides pressure on your top 6 players to keep producing or they'll be replaced by someone from behind. It would really be nice to see Oilers management leave this Dark Age thinking behind.

I couldn't disagree more with you and it's not "old thinking". To be an NHL player you have to DO SOMETHING on the ice. What does Benson do? Explain to me what Benson's game is because from everything I can find written about and then comparing them to his stats at all levels, he's not a big goal scorer, never has been. He doesn't own a great shot. His skating is always listed as a problem and in the NHL where skating has become extremely important, that's a problem. He's never been known as a very good defensive guy. He's not big, tough or overly physical. He's never been seen as an energy guy. He's not even a center. He's supposedly a smart set up guy who plays wing. Generally if you are a set up guy, you usually play center, not wing.

In my opinion, for Benson to have ANY chance to succeed, he needs to be in the top 6. I say that because nothing he does is elite and since his skating isn't great, he probably will need a ton of ice time to accomplish something because 9 times out of 10 he will not have enough time or space to make a play because he's not fast enough. So he needs top 6 mins playing on a line with 2 shooters who are fast and aggressive.

So Adam, who are you going to pull from the top 6 to give Benson a fair shot in your estimation? Because if you aren't in the top 6, a player has to do SOMETHING of value to play in the NHL other than give guys a rest and once in a blue moon make a tape to tape pass on the rare occasion he gets any kind of time. I know he doesn't get a ton of ice time but any time he plays, there is little to know urgency in his game to do anything. It's not like the Oilers bottom 6 these days is shooting the lights out so if he did anything of value what so ever, he'd probably get more ice time or more games. I looked up his stats, in 5 games, he's got 3 shots. That's it and is -2. WOW!!! How are they not throwing this guy over the boards more with stats like that.

I'm not pulling anyone from the top 6. I'm playing him with McLeod on the third or fourth line. I'm giving him a bit of a push in that position to see if he can produce. If he can't then I'm cycling him down and bringing up someone else who's contributing in the AHL and trying them there. I am not benching him for the night if the line gives up a goal, especially if he wasn't directly responsible for it being scored, because that doesn't actually teach anyone anything.

I am not tasking these guys with just being perfect defensively, I'm asking them to outscore the opposition. I think that's a subtle, but significant difference from what Tippett is doing.

I am probably working on building up these guys too - you lit up the AHL, most of these 4th liners you'll be playing are at the same level or worse than the ones you lit up down there. Just do what you need to do and don't overthink it or play scared of making mistakes.

To be an NHL player, you need to outscore the opposition. You don't need to be there to make hits, or "provide a spark", or just give 110% or grit it out or whatever other idiotic thing Bob Stauffer thinks 4th liners are for. You need to score more goals than the other guys when you're on the ice. That's it.

If you are basing your opinion on Benson because he lit up AHLers, then we are always going to have a big time difference of opinion on the guy. Go look up the KHL stats or pick any other high end European league you want to look up and I will bet you, you will find a ton of guys who lit up the AHL. I haven't the time to look up every single NHL teams AHL roster but I will bet you that most if not ALL of them are made of primarily never will be NHLers who won't ever get into a single NHL game in their entire hockey career. So while it's great the Benson can dominate never will be NHLers, that jack squat in the NHL. There is nothing about Benson's game that screams NHL player to me. If the Oilers are worried that if he was to be put on waivers, they'd lose him. Oh well. My guess is 30 NHL teams wouldn't even give him a second thought, given that Buffalo is better than I thought, I doubt they would take him so the only team you'd have to worry about is Arizona who's trying about as hard as they can to be horrific. So maybe they might want to take him because Benson might be better than a couple of the never will be, AHLers they are playing.

The only thing I agree with you is that any teams hope is that your bottom 6 outscores your opponents. There is nothing in Benson's game that says he can help the Oilers bottom 6 do that because he does little to nothing when he is on the ice.

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Re: Pregame: Edmonton @ Winnipeg (Game #15) [message #794608 is a reply to message #794606 ]	Wed, 17 November 2021 10:32

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 17 November 2021 10:18

If you are basing your opinion on Benson because he lit up AHLers, then we are always going to have a big time difference of opinion on the guy. Go look up the KHL stats or pick any other high end European league you want to look up and I will bet you, you will find a ton of guys who lit up the AHL. I haven't the time to look up every single NHL teams AHL roster but I will bet you that most if not ALL of them are made of primarily never will be NHLers who won't ever get into a single NHL game in their entire hockey career. So while it's great the Benson can dominate never will be NHLers, that jack squat in the NHL. There is nothing about Benson's game that screams NHL player to me. If the Oilers are worried that if he was to be put on waivers, they'd lose him. Oh well. My guess is 30 NHL teams wouldn't even give him a second thought, given that Buffalo is better than I thought, I doubt they would take him so the only team you'd have to worry about is Arizona who's trying about as hard as they can to be horrific. So maybe they might want to take him because Benson might be better than a couple of the never will be, AHLers they are playing.

The only thing I agree with you is that any teams hope is that your bottom 6 outscores your opponents. There is nothing in Benson's game that says he can help the Oilers bottom 6 do that because he does little to nothing when he is on the ice.

I know you love to make decisions and proclamations on kids from very small sample sizes but this might be next level for you. Benson's played in 12 NHL games, only 5 of which have come this year. The others were two years in the rear view.

He's 23 years old (ie. pretty young), has scored at about a point per game in the AHL, and has averaged 7 minutes of ice time in the 5 games he's got, playing with the worst players the Oilers have. If you think that's enough to go on, then great. Me, I'd like to give him a push over someone who we know sucks like Kyle Turris. If he doesn't work out in a longer stretch, then bring up Marody and try him.

The bottom 6 has been a disaster so far, and Benson's played less than any of them so maybe put him in and see what he can do.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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