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Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725350]	Tue, 18 December 2018 03:00

OilFans
Messages: 1561
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

4

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Edmonton to win:	0%
St. Louis to win:	0%
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2018-19 Regular Season
Wednesday, December 5, 2018 Edmonton 3 @ St. Louis 2 (OT) (SO) Win
Tuesday, December 18, 2018 St. Louis 4 @ Edmonton 1 Loss
Tuesday, March 19, 2019 Edmonton 2 @ St. Louis 7 Loss
Home Record: 0-1-0 Road Record: 1-1-0 Overall Record: 1-2-0
Home / Road Goals For: 1/5 Total: 6
Home / Road Goals Against: 4/9 Total: 13

2017-18 Regular Season
Thursday, November 16, 2017 St. Louis 4 @ Edmonton 1 Loss
Tuesday, November 21, 2017 Edmonton 3 @ St. Louis 8 Loss
Thursday, December 21, 2017 St. Louis 2 @ Edmonton 3 Win
Home Record: 1-1-0 Road Record: 0-1-0 Overall Record: 1-2-0
Home / Road Goals For: 4/3 Total: 7
Home / Road Goals Against: 6/8 Total: 14

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725351 is a reply to message #725350 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 04:26

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

No more road games until Jan 2. Just 2 games in 9 days. Dispatch the Blues and heal up. You can do this boys.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725352 is a reply to message #725351 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 08:16

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Must win. Can't piss away this game. Plus you want to look good for your future teammate Parayko.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725360 is a reply to message #725350 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 09:45

WhoreableGuy
Messages: 592
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

No Cups

I'm not as giddy in trying to lure Parayko as everyone else (especially with what fans are willing to give away) but I'm only basing that off watching Team Canada at the World Championships in May. Maybe it was the ice surface that affected him but he seemed to make a ton of mistakes. But I'm looking at his numbers this season, he's a +3 on a terrible St. Louis team that's been blown out many times. He's big right hand shot, and it's a cannon. He'd easily be the best defenseman now on this deleted Oilers lineup. I just have a feeling if the Oilers throw in a Puljujarvi he's going to come back to haunt us because Oilers.

"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725361 is a reply to message #725350 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 09:52

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Think it's safe to say this is a must win. This is not a term used lightly around here.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725363 is a reply to message #725350 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 09:57

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Feeling a big night from Chiasson, again. Gotta win this one.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725368 is a reply to message #725363 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 11:09

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4421
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 08:57

Feeling a big night from Chiasson, again. Gotta win this one.

Diggin' the positive vibes! moga!

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725369 is a reply to message #725350 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 11:14

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Back to the TMac lineups, sorta(?). Per Stauffer's twitter;

Chiasson-McDavid-Draisaitl
Rieder-RNH-Rattie
Lucic-Brodziak-Kassian
Caggiula-Khaira-Puljujarvi

Nurse-Larsson
Gravel-Jones
Garrison-Benning

Talbot (in starter's net)

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725370 is a reply to message #725350 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 11:16

PlusOne
Messages: 1594
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 12:14

Back to the TMac lineups, sorta(?). Per Stauffer's twitter;

Chiasson-McDavid-Draisaitl
Rieder-RNH-Rattie
Lucic-Brodziak-Kassian
Caggiula-Khaira-Puljujarvi

Nurse-Larsson
Gravel-Jones
Garrison-Benning

Talbot (in starter's net)

- Spooner a healthy scratch
- Jones on the second pairing
- overall that D group is not good on paper (or the ice likely). Gravel as been decent but not 2nd pairing good. That third pairing is scary and has been
- time for Talbot to put in a good effort.
- Rattie hasnt played much since Hitch took over. Apparently wasnt a fan of Rattie in St' L . He might be on a short leash
- JP back to the 4th line. Hopefully he still gets some minutes as I liked his improvements lately. Wouldn't be surprised to see him move up and Rattie down mid game.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725371 is a reply to message #725363 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 11:20

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Lines tonight.

Chiasson - McD - Leon
Rieder - Nuge - Rattie
Lucic - BRod - Kassian
Caggulia - Khaira - JP

Nurse - Larsson
Gravel - Jones
Garrison - Benning

Talbot starts.

I am interested in the new Nuge line. I thought Khaira and him were developing some chemistry but I guess if you scratch Spooner, you need a center. I am not against starting Talbot, I just thought with Koskinen at home being basically automatic, you want to ensure you bank that win. Maybe the thinking is you need to get Talbot a start, want him to "build confidence" against a weaker team. Personally, I would have played Koskinen against the Blues, get the win, then play Talbot against the Lightning. The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway, why waste Koskinen.

ON a different note, Rishaug tweeted a picture of Chia and Armstrong together talking in a suite.

Parayko for Sekera, Bear and a pick. It's happening!!

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725372 is a reply to message #725371 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 11:41

PlusOne
Messages: 1594
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 12:20

Personally, I would have played Koskinen against the Blues, get the win, then play Talbot against the Lightning. The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway, why waste Koskinen.

Talbot needs to play some games but your idea is not a good way to handle it from a coaching/team psychology perspective.

If a coach is telling the team they can match up against anyone and are a playoff team how does it look if you put in your current number 2 as "The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway"

Do you think that motivates the team to be the giant slayer? How do you walk into the room pregame and tell them to put in a top effort when you are playing your goalies in this way?

I have always believed that it should be a mix of traditional back to back, give the starter a rest against the weaker team, strategy was best.
As the season goes on you play the top goalie, hot hand in must win games, even if that means 15 in a row to end the year to make the playoffs.

The last thing this team needs is any knock on its confidence and playing Talbot against one of the best teams in the league is a clear white towel and the players, including Talbot, would see that.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725374 is a reply to message #725360 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 11:50

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

WhoreableGuy wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 09:45

I'm not as giddy in trying to lure Parayko as everyone else (especially with what fans are willing to give away) but I'm only basing that off watching Team Canada at the World Championships in May. Maybe it was the ice surface that affected him but he seemed to make a ton of mistakes. But I'm looking at his numbers this season, he's a +3 on a terrible St. Louis team that's been blown out many times. He's big right hand shot, and it's a cannon. He'd easily be the best defenseman now on this deleted Oilers lineup. I just have a feeling if the Oilers throw in a Puljujarvi he's going to come back to haunt us because Oilers.

Yup. Parayko at a 7.5 million cap hit coming in means dollars out, and that ain't going to be Lucic and it ain't going to be Sekera. Nuge and another 1.5 mil in contract? Not likely, Nuge isn't going anywhere until possibly his contract year, and hello hole at center, goodbye production in the top 6. LD going nowhere for some of the same reasons as Nuge, plus the fact of more production. LD annoys me a lot watching him play, but the numbers can't be argued with.

Deal involving Nurse? Ok but the dollars have to be made up. Who else goes?

The deal would have to saw off dollar wise for the Oilers. That's why it's highly unlikely.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725380 is a reply to message #725372 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 12:17

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 11:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 12:20

Personally, I would have played Koskinen against the Blues, get the win, then play Talbot against the Lightning. The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway, why waste Koskinen.

Talbot needs to play some games but your idea is not a good way to handle it from a coaching/team psychology perspective.

If a coach is telling the team they can match up against anyone and are a playoff team how does it look if you put in your current number 2 as "The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway"

Do you think that motivates the team to be the giant slayer? How do you walk into the room pregame and tell them to put in a top effort when you are playing your goalies in this way?

I have always believed that it should be a mix of traditional back to back, give the starter a rest against the weaker team, strategy was best.
As the season goes on you play the top goalie, hot hand in must win games, even if that means 15 in a row to end the year to make the playoffs.

The last thing this team needs is any knock on its confidence and playing Talbot against one of the best teams in the league is a clear white towel and the players, including Talbot, would see that.

Koskinen at home is 7-0, 3 shut outs, a goals against under 1 and a save percentage of .972. It's not like Koskinen was brutal last game either. But regardless. If the coach says Koskinen is going to play their first home game back, what player is going to question that decision for a second given the numbers. Players know what the numbers are. As much as Talbot is a competitor and wants to play, I don't think he can even argue the numbers. Koskinen has unheard of numbers at home.

I would bet that if the numbers were flipped and Talbot had the insane numbers at home, not one person would be questioning if he should start tonight. Yet because it's not Talbot, it doesn't apply?

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725381 is a reply to message #725380 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 12:26

PlusOne
Messages: 1594
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 13:17

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 11:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 12:20

Personally, I would have played Koskinen against the Blues, get the win, then play Talbot against the Lightning. The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway, why waste Koskinen.

Talbot needs to play some games but your idea is not a good way to handle it from a coaching/team psychology perspective.

If a coach is telling the team they can match up against anyone and are a playoff team how does it look if you put in your current number 2 as "The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway"

Do you think that motivates the team to be the giant slayer? How do you walk into the room pregame and tell them to put in a top effort when you are playing your goalies in this way?

I have always believed that it should be a mix of traditional back to back, give the starter a rest against the weaker team, strategy was best.
As the season goes on you play the top goalie, hot hand in must win games, even if that means 15 in a row to end the year to make the playoffs.

The last thing this team needs is any knock on its confidence and playing Talbot against one of the best teams in the league is a clear white towel and the players, including Talbot, would see that.

Koskinen at home is 7-0, 3 shut outs, a goals against under 1 and a save percentage of .972. It's not like Koskinen was brutal last game either. But regardless. If the coach says Koskinen is going to play their first home game back, what player is going to question that decision for a second given the numbers. Players know what the numbers are. As much as Talbot is a competitor and wants to play, I don't think he can even argue the numbers. Koskinen has unheard of numbers at home.

I would bet that if the numbers were flipped and Talbot had the insane numbers at home, not one person would be questioning if he should start tonight. Yet because it's not Talbot, it doesn't apply?

I dont know if you didnt read my post or simply ignored what I said but this had nothing to do with who is playing better right now. It is about goalie management and whether the idea of throwing in the towel on the TB game is a good move.

I am not arguing the stats or who has been the better goalie. This isn't even about "because Talbot"

What I was debating was the strategy of playing your #1 goalie against a weaker team and the #2 against one of the leagues best teams because "The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway"

If you only play the struggling number 2 goalie against games you see as almost unwinnable what message are you sending?

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725384 is a reply to message #725381 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 12:51

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 12:26

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 13:17

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 11:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 12:20

Personally, I would have played Koskinen against the Blues, get the win, then play Talbot against the Lightning. The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway, why waste Koskinen.

Talbot needs to play some games but your idea is not a good way to handle it from a coaching/team psychology perspective.

If a coach is telling the team they can match up against anyone and are a playoff team how does it look if you put in your current number 2 as "The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway"

Do you think that motivates the team to be the giant slayer? How do you walk into the room pregame and tell them to put in a top effort when you are playing your goalies in this way?

I have always believed that it should be a mix of traditional back to back, give the starter a rest against the weaker team, strategy was best.
As the season goes on you play the top goalie, hot hand in must win games, even if that means 15 in a row to end the year to make the playoffs.

The last thing this team needs is any knock on its confidence and playing Talbot against one of the best teams in the league is a clear white towel and the players, including Talbot, would see that.

Koskinen at home is 7-0, 3 shut outs, a goals against under 1 and a save percentage of .972. It's not like Koskinen was brutal last game either. But regardless. If the coach says Koskinen is going to play their first home game back, what player is going to question that decision for a second given the numbers. Players know what the numbers are. As much as Talbot is a competitor and wants to play, I don't think he can even argue the numbers. Koskinen has unheard of numbers at home.

I would bet that if the numbers were flipped and Talbot had the insane numbers at home, not one person would be questioning if he should start tonight. Yet because it's not Talbot, it doesn't apply?

I dont know if you didnt read my post or simply ignored what I said but this had nothing to do with who is playing better right now. It is about goalie management and whether the idea of throwing in the towel on the TB game is a good move.

I am not arguing the stats or who has been the better goalie. This isn't even about "because Talbot"

What I was debating was the strategy of playing your #1 goalie against a weaker team and the #2 against one of the leagues best teams because "The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway"

If you only play the struggling number 2 goalie against games you see as almost unwinnable what message are you sending?

I read your post. If Koskinen shutout the Canucks, usually most coaches let that guy play the next game automatically even if it's "the other guys" start. It's just what you do. You are riding the hot hand. Koskinen is insanely hot at home right now. So why all of a sudden are they not "managing" the goalies correctly by playing the hot hand at home. The guy is on a crazy role at home, why wouldn't you ride that? It happens all the time. But because it's the Oilers, it can't apply.

Plus Hitch has been real careful to not designate a #1 publicly. All he has done is talk about the 2 of them, how he thinks he has two #1 guys. How badly you need 2 guys that can win you games, etc, etc. So why would Talbot given what the coach has said, think he is the #2. You could also spin it and have it as you are playing who you think your main guy is, against the toughest teams.

At the end of the day, in my opinion, worrying about "message sending" so you don't hurt a guys feelings should be the last thing you should worry about. You need every win you can get.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725385 is a reply to message #725384 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 12:57

PlusOne
Messages: 1594
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 13:51

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 12:26

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 13:17

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 11:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 12:20

Personally, I would have played Koskinen against the Blues, get the win, then play Talbot against the Lightning. The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway, why waste Koskinen.

Talbot needs to play some games but your idea is not a good way to handle it from a coaching/team psychology perspective.

If a coach is telling the team they can match up against anyone and are a playoff team how does it look if you put in your current number 2 as "The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway"

Do you think that motivates the team to be the giant slayer? How do you walk into the room pregame and tell them to put in a top effort when you are playing your goalies in this way?

I have always believed that it should be a mix of traditional back to back, give the starter a rest against the weaker team, strategy was best.
As the season goes on you play the top goalie, hot hand in must win games, even if that means 15 in a row to end the year to make the playoffs.

The last thing this team needs is any knock on its confidence and playing Talbot against one of the best teams in the league is a clear white towel and the players, including Talbot, would see that.

Koskinen at home is 7-0, 3 shut outs, a goals against under 1 and a save percentage of .972. It's not like Koskinen was brutal last game either. But regardless. If the coach says Koskinen is going to play their first home game back, what player is going to question that decision for a second given the numbers. Players know what the numbers are. As much as Talbot is a competitor and wants to play, I don't think he can even argue the numbers. Koskinen has unheard of numbers at home.

I would bet that if the numbers were flipped and Talbot had the insane numbers at home, not one person would be questioning if he should start tonight. Yet because it's not Talbot, it doesn't apply?

I dont know if you didnt read my post or simply ignored what I said but this had nothing to do with who is playing better right now. It is about goalie management and whether the idea of throwing in the towel on the TB game is a good move.

I am not arguing the stats or who has been the better goalie. This isn't even about "because Talbot"

What I was debating was the strategy of playing your #1 goalie against a weaker team and the #2 against one of the leagues best teams because "The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway"

If you only play the struggling number 2 goalie against games you see as almost unwinnable what message are you sending?

I read your post. If Koskinen shutout the Canucks, usually most coaches let that guy play the next game automatically even if it's "the other guys" start. It's just what you do. You are riding the hot hand. Koskinen is insanely hot at home right now. So why all of a sudden are they not "managing" the goalies correctly by playing the hot hand at home. The guy is on a crazy role at home, why wouldn't you ride that? It happens all the time. But because it's the Oilers, it can't apply.

Plus Hitch has been real careful to not designate a #1 publicly. All he has done is talk about the 2 of them, how he thinks he has two #1 guys. How badly you need 2 guys that can win you games, etc, etc. So why would Talbot given what the coach has said, think he is the #2. You could also spin it and have it as you are playing who you think your main guy is, against the toughest teams.

At the end of the day, in my opinion, worrying about "message sending" so you don't hurt a guys feelings should be the last thing you should worry about. You need every win you can get.

You are still clearly missing the point.

I am not worried about Talbot's feelings.

If a team is truly looking to be competitive you dont say "we arent likely to beat TB" so I am going to play the cold goalie and use the hot one in an easier game.
Again, not about Talbot's feelings but the ENTIRE team would see that as giving up on them and showing no faith that are truly able to compete with a good hockey team.

To your statement about playing the hot goalie first because it is "what you do" that is purely BS.

When good teams have a back to back they will often play the better, or hotter, goalie in the tougher matchup.

You are right, they do need every win. I think Talbot has a better chance of beating St. L than TB. I think that Koskinan has a better chance of beating TB than Talbot does.

Should they not go for two wins instead of trying to guarantee one but putting a weaker team on the ice for the second?

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725387 is a reply to message #725350 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 13:24

WhoreableGuy
Messages: 592
Registered: August 2006
Location: Calgary

No Cups

Ryan Pinder and Derek Wills (Fan 960 here in Calgary) had a big on air argument about the same issue a few weeks back when Mike Smith was struggling and still getting starts. Pinder said it was stupid to start Smith when Flames need just wins so go with the goalie that will give you the best chance of that. Wills was playing the "you have to keep Smith happy and get him back to his usual self" stance and that you will need Smith later in the year to be pulling in wins.

Who is right? Who knows, they are both on Flames radio so they are both losers in my mind.

"Bah Gawd! Would somebody stop the damn draft!"

- Jim Ross calling the NHL Draft Lotto 2015 as the Oilers win

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725388 is a reply to message #725387 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 13:27

PlusOne
Messages: 1594
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

WhoreableGuy wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:24

Ryan Pinder and Derek Wills (Fan 960 here in Calgary) had a big on air argument about the same issue a few weeks back when Mike Smith was struggling and still getting starts. Pinder said it was stupid to start Smith when Flames need just wins so go with the goalie that will give you the best chance of that. Wills was playing the "you have to keep Smith happy and get him back to his usual self" stance and that you will need Smith later in the year to be pulling in wins.

Who is right? Who knows, they are both on Flames radio so they are both losers in my mind.

Ya, any argument that includes starting a goalie to keep someone happy and isnt just in the best interest of winning games is a non-starter for me.

For the record, if it was up to me Koskinen would start every game until he showed the earliest signs of fatigue OR has a game where he is struggling.
That is when Talbot would get his next start. If Talbot shines you can go to a 60/40 split or whatever but to me it is now Koskinen's net to lose.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725393 is a reply to message #725385 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 13:47

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 12:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 13:51

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 12:26

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 13:17

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 11:41

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 12:20

Personally, I would have played Koskinen against the Blues, get the win, then play Talbot against the Lightning. The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway, why waste Koskinen.

Talbot needs to play some games but your idea is not a good way to handle it from a coaching/team psychology perspective.

If a coach is telling the team they can match up against anyone and are a playoff team how does it look if you put in your current number 2 as "The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway"

Do you think that motivates the team to be the giant slayer? How do you walk into the room pregame and tell them to put in a top effort when you are playing your goalies in this way?

I have always believed that it should be a mix of traditional back to back, give the starter a rest against the weaker team, strategy was best.
As the season goes on you play the top goalie, hot hand in must win games, even if that means 15 in a row to end the year to make the playoffs.

The last thing this team needs is any knock on its confidence and playing Talbot against one of the best teams in the league is a clear white towel and the players, including Talbot, would see that.

Koskinen at home is 7-0, 3 shut outs, a goals against under 1 and a save percentage of .972. It's not like Koskinen was brutal last game either. But regardless. If the coach says Koskinen is going to play their first home game back, what player is going to question that decision for a second given the numbers. Players know what the numbers are. As much as Talbot is a competitor and wants to play, I don't think he can even argue the numbers. Koskinen has unheard of numbers at home.

I would bet that if the numbers were flipped and Talbot had the insane numbers at home, not one person would be questioning if he should start tonight. Yet because it's not Talbot, it doesn't apply?

I dont know if you didnt read my post or simply ignored what I said but this had nothing to do with who is playing better right now. It is about goalie management and whether the idea of throwing in the towel on the TB game is a good move.

I am not arguing the stats or who has been the better goalie. This isn't even about "because Talbot"

What I was debating was the strategy of playing your #1 goalie against a weaker team and the #2 against one of the leagues best teams because "The chances of you beating Tampa aren't that great anyway"

If you only play the struggling number 2 goalie against games you see as almost unwinnable what message are you sending?

I read your post. If Koskinen shutout the Canucks, usually most coaches let that guy play the next game automatically even if it's "the other guys" start. It's just what you do. You are riding the hot hand. Koskinen is insanely hot at home right now. So why all of a sudden are they not "managing" the goalies correctly by playing the hot hand at home. The guy is on a crazy role at home, why wouldn't you ride that? It happens all the time. But because it's the Oilers, it can't apply.

Plus Hitch has been real careful to not designate a #1 publicly. All he has done is talk about the 2 of them, how he thinks he has two #1 guys. How badly you need 2 guys that can win you games, etc, etc. So why would Talbot given what the coach has said, think he is the #2. You could also spin it and have it as you are playing who you think your main guy is, against the toughest teams.

At the end of the day, in my opinion, worrying about "message sending" so you don't hurt a guys feelings should be the last thing you should worry about. You need every win you can get.

You are still clearly missing the point.

I am not worried about Talbot's feelings.

If a team is truly looking to be competitive you dont say "we arent likely to beat TB" so I am going to play the cold goalie and use the hot one in an easier game.
Again, not about Talbot's feelings but the ENTIRE team would see that as giving up on them and showing no faith that are truly able to compete with a good hockey team.

To your statement about playing the hot goalie first because it is "what you do" that is purely BS.

When good teams have a back to back they will often play the better, or hotter, goalie in the tougher matchup.

You are right, they do need every win. I think Talbot has a better chance of beating St. L than TB. I think that Koskinan has a better chance of beating TB than Talbot does.

Should they not go for two wins instead of trying to guarantee one but putting a weaker team on the ice for the second?

At the end of the day, all I care about is this team winning. That's it. The time to worry about guys feelings or handling guys or however you want to call it are over. They need to win. The only thing I agree with is trying to win both games. So with that being the case, I would play Koskinen both games. Koskinen's stats are grossly superior. He's 11-4-1, 2.18, .928. Talbot is 7-9-2, 3.22, .892. It's not close who's been better and give the team the best chance to win. Then you factor in Koskinen's stats at home and it puts it over the top for me. They play tonight and then not till Saturday so there is plenty of rest for Koskinen. After that, they don't play until the 27th against Vancouver. Since Koskinen lost his last start against the Canucks, you have an easy out as to why you play Talbot on the 27th.

Play to win so you play your best guy. I am pulling for Talbot, they need him to be good but he lost the benefit of the doubt when he was crap for most of October and November.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725396 is a reply to message #725393 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 14:06

PlusOne
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Location: Regina, Sask

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RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:47

At the end of the day, all I care about is this team winning. That's it. The time to worry about guys feelings or handling guys or however you want to call it are over. They need to win.

Yep, so icing a struggling goalie because you dont think they can beat TB anyway is just stupid.

Not playing Talbot at all is also stupid. The team has been burned before by this mentality but then again, why would the Oilers ever repeat mistakes...

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725398 is a reply to message #725396 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 14:17

CrusaderPi
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PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:47

At the end of the day, all I care about is this team winning. That's it. The time to worry about guys feelings or handling guys or however you want to call it are over. They need to win.

Yep, so icing a struggling goalie because you dont think they can beat TB anyway is just stupid.

Not playing Talbot at all is also stupid. The team has been burned before by this mentality but then again, why would the Oilers ever repeat mistakes...

Talbot has played reasonably well in the last week or so and until proven otherwise I have some faith in Hitchcock's coaching decisions.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725399 is a reply to message #725398 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 14:21

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:17

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:47

At the end of the day, all I care about is this team winning. That's it. The time to worry about guys feelings or handling guys or however you want to call it are over. They need to win.

Yep, so icing a struggling goalie because you dont think they can beat TB anyway is just stupid.

Not playing Talbot at all is also stupid. The team has been burned before by this mentality but then again, why would the Oilers ever repeat mistakes...

Talbot has played reasonably well in the last week or so and until proven otherwise I have some faith in Hitchcock's coaching decisions.

I dunno. I think I would prefer the guy that never lets in a bad goal and will never ever have a bad game for the rest of his NHL career. Just keep playing that guy every game.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725400 is a reply to message #725399 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 14:27

CrusaderPi
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:21

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:17

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:47

At the end of the day, all I care about is this team winning. That's it. The time to worry about guys feelings or handling guys or however you want to call it are over. They need to win.

Yep, so icing a struggling goalie because you dont think they can beat TB anyway is just stupid.

Not playing Talbot at all is also stupid. The team has been burned before by this mentality but then again, why would the Oilers ever repeat mistakes...

Talbot has played reasonably well in the last week or so and until proven otherwise I have some faith in Hitchcock's coaching decisions.

I dunno. I think I would prefer the guy that never lets in a bad goal and will never ever have a bad game for the rest of his NHL career. Just keep playing that guy every game.

Todd?

That sounds like the goalie game plan the Oilers had to start this season.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725401 is a reply to message #725398 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 14:28

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:17

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:47

At the end of the day, all I care about is this team winning. That's it. The time to worry about guys feelings or handling guys or however you want to call it are over. They need to win.

Yep, so icing a struggling goalie because you dont think they can beat TB anyway is just stupid.

Not playing Talbot at all is also stupid. The team has been burned before by this mentality but then again, why would the Oilers ever repeat mistakes...

Talbot has played reasonably well in the last week or so and until proven otherwise I have some faith in Hitchcock's coaching decisions.

At the end of the day, I don't care who plays really. Win the games. That's it. The Oilers are in a playoff spot, win the game and keep it.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725402 is a reply to message #725400 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 14:31

Kr55
Messages: 10779
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:27

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:21

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:17

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:47

At the end of the day, all I care about is this team winning. That's it. The time to worry about guys feelings or handling guys or however you want to call it are over. They need to win.

Yep, so icing a struggling goalie because you dont think they can beat TB anyway is just stupid.

Not playing Talbot at all is also stupid. The team has been burned before by this mentality but then again, why would the Oilers ever repeat mistakes...

Talbot has played reasonably well in the last week or so and until proven otherwise I have some faith in Hitchcock's coaching decisions.

I dunno. I think I would prefer the guy that never lets in a bad goal and will never ever have a bad game for the rest of his NHL career. Just keep playing that guy every game.

Todd?

That sounds like the goalie game plan the Oilers had to start this season.

Think that was Todd 2 years ago. Kinda worked too, but pretty sure Talbot was exhausted by the 2nd round, and probably didn't help him be fully ready for the next season.

Last year was all about complaining you could never get a save, but also letting the backup go completely stale for many weeks and even a run of a month+. LB never had a hope in hell to get his game together.

This year, pretty sure Talbot was gonna be done after the Vegas loss, and many would have got their wish of a plan to never see him again until Jan at the earliest. But, I bet we would have run down Koskinen by now and had to move over to an ice cold Talbot, and we may have got to experience 17/18 all over again.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725403 is a reply to message #725401 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 14:34

NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

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Starting Talbot is the right move. Roll with a guy until he has an off night (Koski had an off night on Sunday), than switch. I really think having another goalie do well has helped Talbot. He knows he'll get rest and he knows there isn't as much pressure on him.

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725429 is a reply to message #725402 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 18:23

g2k
Messages: 2840
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:31

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:27

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:21

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:17

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:06

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 18 December 2018 14:47

At the end of the day, all I care about is this team winning. That's it. The time to worry about guys feelings or handling guys or however you want to call it are over. They need to win.

Yep, so icing a struggling goalie because you dont think they can beat TB anyway is just stupid.

Not playing Talbot at all is also stupid. The team has been burned before by this mentality but then again, why would the Oilers ever repeat mistakes...

Talbot has played reasonably well in the last week or so and until proven otherwise I have some faith in Hitchcock's coaching decisions.

I dunno. I think I would prefer the guy that never lets in a bad goal and will never ever have a bad game for the rest of his NHL career. Just keep playing that guy every game.

Todd?

That sounds like the goalie game plan the Oilers had to start this season.

Think that was Todd 2 years ago. Kinda worked too, but pretty sure Talbot was exhausted by the 2nd round, and probably didn't help him be fully ready for the next season.

Last year was all about complaining you could never get a save, but also letting the backup go completely stale for many weeks and even a run of a month+. LB never had a hope in hell to get his game together.

This year, pretty sure Talbot was gonna be done after the Vegas loss, and many would have got their wish of a plan to never see him again until Jan at the earliest. But, I bet we would have run down Koskinen by now and had to move over to an ice cold Talbot, and we may have got to experience 17/18 all over again.

I was secretly bummed when LB was no longer an Oiler.

oil king bias

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: Pregame: St. Louis @ Edmonton (Game #35) [message #725430 is a reply to message #725388 ]	Tue, 18 December 2018 18:29

shoop
Messages: 106
Registered: December 2018
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

With Talbot's most recent play it makes sense to start him.

Koskinen wasn't horrible by any stretch in Vancouver. However, he did not look great. Play your #2 against weaker opposition. Then a rested Koskinen can play against the Lightning and give them a run for their money.

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