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Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit [message #824802 is a reply to message #824796 ]	Fri, 30 June 2023 14:25

Burgeoboy
Messages: 33
Registered: July 2006
Location: Burgeo, Newfoundland

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Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 16:40

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:19

Adam wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:19

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:29

I got to love it when I get into arguments about how the Oilers didn't get enough value for a player like Yamo, then the Wings take him all so they could get the rights to Kostin so they can overpay Kostin and buy him out. As much as I liked Kostin, he's a 4th liner right now. Maybe on the Wings he plays higher up but on the Oilers, he's in their bottom 6 and should be making maybe at most 1.25 mill.

Watch the Wings give him a 2 yr, 1.6 mill deal plus when you add on Yamo's buy out, he's not basically a 2 mill player.

Two things:

1) You're still missing the point. The point is, trade players before their value is nothing, and don't actively contribute to reducing their value to nothing, which is what you do if you announce to the world that you pretty much need to make a move with that specific player.

2) You're right about Yzerman here. He has to have a sense as to what Kostin will cost to keep in North America, and he's just added a million dollars to the cost of getting him with this buyout. It's a stunning mistake.

A real question regarding trading Yamamoto. When would have been the correct time to trade him when he still had value?

When he had value we needed him. It fell off a cliff. They could’ve traded him at his initial drop off point, but he is young and should have conceivably rebounded. I guess he could’ve been moved before he signed his two year deal, but Edmonton like everyone else still saw a player there.

Then the 22/23 starts and he gets hurt. It appears to be chronic. Now he’s dead weight and hopefully going to recover and restart his career.

The Oilers are the closest to the player and they should have the best insight in to what that player is and can be. They should be setting expectations and negotiating contracts based on that. Last summer, the team had two young right wings who have draft pedigree (which means nothing, but is overvalued by many fans and GMs). Both had had some ups and downs and they decided with both of them to give them relatively high contracts, including giving two years to Yamamoto. They both were simply given away within a year, which means the team screwed up last summer and should have been looking for a better way to spend that $6.2MM.

I mean, it's fine to say that they needed a good young right wing last year, but it's not like we're in a different situation now. We still need a good young right wing. And if we hadn't made it so blatantly clear that we wanted to trade this specific player - if the team would ever talk up its players instead of constantly wishing they were just a little better than they are or bigger than they are or grittier than they are in an attempt to pass blame from management to the players, then maybe someone else looks at him and thinks - there's a 20-goal scoring right wing who's still relatively young and can add something to my team and you get more than needing to throw in a player that another team wants in order to get rid of him.

The part I don't get about this post and many others you make, is I can only assume, you think other teams don't know how to evaluate players either. Even if we agree that Holland is useless, talks down about his players and lets the world know he doesn't want them, I still don't think that effects the value of the player that much (if he as any) and heres why. There are 31 other GM that have a staffs, all trying to make there teams better. So, even if Holland thinks a player as no value, if the player does, you only need two other teams to see it, in which cause, they well out bid each other and drive the price up. if they don't then guess what, that player doesn't have value, you might think he does, but the fact is he doesn't.

Let say Holland thinks player x is worth no more than 6th, he his on record saying hes to slow etc.. but two teams staff think Holland is out to lunch and this guy as loads of value, you don't think there going out bid each other and drive the price up past a 6th rounder?

I don't care if its hockey player, a car or a house, they are only worth what people are whiling to pay, regardless of what you think they should be worth, and the market not the seller determines that.

Now, if you don't like what the market offers you don't need to sell and but that is a different conversion, but this idea that Holland determines the value of the asset he has crazy, it totally dismiss the ability of the other 31 teams to evaluate talent.

houses sell above list price all the time, just because you don't understand the value of what you have, doesn't mean the market doesn't.

[Updated on: Fri, 30 June 2023 14:28]

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Yams & Klim to Det	By: Suomalainen on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:36
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:39
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: NetBOG on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:46
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: smyth260 on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:51
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: NetBOG on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:55
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:00
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:00
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: smyth260 on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:02
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:05
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:07
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:33
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:15
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:19
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:23
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: smyth260 on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:30
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:42
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:51
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:56
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Adam on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:01
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: NetBOG on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:04
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Adam on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:10
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:37
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: smyth260 on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:03
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Adam on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:31
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:38
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Adam on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:42
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Adam on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:57
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:44
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:02
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:02
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Burgeoboy on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:30
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:13
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Burgeoboy on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:31
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:51
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:22
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:17
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:23
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 20:56
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 29 June 2023 16:00
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Adam on Thu, 29 June 2023 18:06
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Jay on Fri, 30 June 2023 08:57
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Kr55 on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:19
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:22
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:31
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:54
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:44
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:47
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Adam on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:57
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:55
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Burgeoboy on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:05
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:21
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Adam on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:15
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:51
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:53
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:27
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrudeRemarks on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:59
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Thu, 29 June 2023 21:05
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 30 June 2023 08:38
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 30 June 2023 08:52
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 30 June 2023 09:08
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 30 June 2023 09:26
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:36
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: NetBOG on Fri, 30 June 2023 09:16
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 30 June 2023 09:25
Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Daftmonk on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:05
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Adam on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:11
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 30 June 2023 10:29
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Adam on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:19
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: NetBOG on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:21
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: CrusaderPi on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:37
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Adam on Fri, 30 June 2023 13:01
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Skookum Jim on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:00
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Goose on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:04
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:07
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Skookum Jim on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:16
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: NetBOG on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:09
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Skookum Jim on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:20
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: inverno76 on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:19
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: RDOilerfan on Fri, 30 June 2023 12:33
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Adam on Fri, 30 June 2023 13:10
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: inverno76 on Fri, 30 June 2023 13:19
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Burgeoboy on Fri, 30 June 2023 14:25
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Dragon_Matt on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:11
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Adam on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:15
Re: Yams to be bought out by Detroit	By: Burgeoboy on Fri, 30 June 2023 15:50
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Fri, 30 June 2023 11:46
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: inverno76 on Fri, 30 June 2023 14:53
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Fri, 30 June 2023 17:57
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: smyth260 on Fri, 30 June 2023 17:40
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: JPro on Fri, 30 June 2023 17:56
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: nullterm on Fri, 30 June 2023 17:59
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Fri, 30 June 2023 17:59
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Steve on Fri, 30 June 2023 19:48
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Adam on Fri, 30 June 2023 22:48
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Sat, 01 July 2023 08:44
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: NetBOG on Sat, 01 July 2023 08:55
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Sat, 01 July 2023 09:00
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Adam on Sat, 01 July 2023 13:21
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Kr55 on Sat, 01 July 2023 16:01
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: Skookum Jim on Sun, 02 July 2023 14:45
Re: Yams & Klim to Det	By: RDOilerfan on Tue, 04 July 2023 08:12

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