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 Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
1 Cup
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Here's the problem I have with "analysis" like this from guys like Ference: in the 2 seasons that Ference was here the Oilers scored 259 goals at 5x5 and gave up 375, for a differential of -116.
Here are the top 5 forwards by on-ice goal share(GF, GA, GF%), min 500 minutes:
1. Benoit Pouliot - 36/35/50.7%
2. Taylor Hall - 90/93/49.2%
3. Jordan Eberle - 107/116/48.0%
4. RNH - 102/116/46.8%
5. David Perron - 66/82/44.6%
And here's a selection of guys who no doubt "worked hard":
Ryan Smyth - 19/39/39.6%
Boyd Gordon - 34/58/37.0%
Luke Gazdic - 12/33/34.2%
Matt Hendricks- 20/44/31.3%
And of course Ference comes in at 75/111/40.3%.
So when Ference says that guys didn't work hard in practice, and is presumably talking about guys like Hall and Eberle, my question is, then what the hell was Ference doing? Based on these numbers there seems to be zero correlation between the type of hard work that Ference is talking about and actual performance. So then what's the point? And Eberle and Hall had to achieve those results dragging Ference and the rest of one of the worst defence corps in the history of the NHL around the ice all night.
Taylor Hall was -3 in goal differential over that period. The rest of the team managed to be -113 when he wasn't on the ice. And somehow Hall was the problem?
Numbers from Naturalstattrick.com
http://naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20132 014&thruseason=20142015&stype=2&sit=5v5&scor e=all&stdoi=oi&rate=n&team=EDM&pos=S&loc =B&toi=500&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&a mp;a mp;lines=single
ETA: Before anyone suggests I'm saying things like working hard dont matter, they do. But performance in hockey is measured by one of two things: your ability to either contribute to your team putting the puck in the net or to prevent the other team from doing so. If you cant do either of those two things then the rest is just noise and is orders of magnitude less important than on ice ability.
CrudeRemarks mentioned Pronger. I would argue that Prongsr changed the culture of this team because he played 30 dominant minutes a night, not because he changed out the equipment in the weight room. If Ference had come in and done everything that Pronger had done but was still Andrew Ference, the Oilers are still getting killed during those two years.
I'll just finish by reiterating that hard work as defined by ference is meaningless since it doesn't translate to results. And to say that Hall and Eberle didnt work hard just comes off as bitter to me.
And I'll say that there are definitely "intangibles" that can help teams win. I also think that NHL teams have no clue how to identify or measure them, which is how you end up with Milan Lucic for 4 more years
[Updated on: Mon, 10 December 2018 19:35]
Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games
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Ference paints ugly picture of time with Oilers |
By: Kr55 on Mon, 10 December 2018 12:52 |
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By: Kr55 on Mon, 10 December 2018 13:22 |
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By: Steve on Mon, 10 December 2018 13:22 |
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By: Kr55 on Mon, 10 December 2018 13:45 |
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By: Kr55 on Mon, 10 December 2018 13:51 |
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By: Jakey on Mon, 10 December 2018 15:46 |
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By: Kr55 on Mon, 10 December 2018 15:52 |
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By: NetBOG on Mon, 10 December 2018 14:18 |
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By: Kr55 on Mon, 10 December 2018 15:02 |
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By: Kr55 on Mon, 10 December 2018 14:58 |
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By: Kr55 on Mon, 10 December 2018 15:18 |
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By: Adam on Tue, 11 December 2018 11:14 |
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By: Magnum on Tue, 11 December 2018 11:51 |
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By: Adam on Tue, 11 December 2018 17:33 |
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By: NetBOG on Tue, 11 December 2018 18:38 |
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By: Goose on Tue, 11 December 2018 18:59 |
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By: K.McC#24 on Mon, 10 December 2018 15:20 |
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By: JPro on Mon, 10 December 2018 16:40 |
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By: Goose on Mon, 10 December 2018 19:10 |
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By: Kr55 on Mon, 10 December 2018 20:24 |
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By: Jay on Tue, 11 December 2018 08:22 |
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By: Adam on Tue, 11 December 2018 08:44 |
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By: Goose on Tue, 11 December 2018 09:12 |
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By: Jay on Tue, 11 December 2018 10:00 |
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By: Kr55 on Mon, 10 December 2018 20:48 |
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By: Adam on Mon, 10 December 2018 21:58 |
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By: Adam on Mon, 10 December 2018 21:51 |
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By: nullterm on Tue, 11 December 2018 00:37 |
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By: Jay on Tue, 11 December 2018 08:36 |
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By: Adam on Tue, 11 December 2018 09:54 |
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By: smyth260 on Mon, 10 December 2018 22:29 |
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By: stotto on Tue, 11 December 2018 06:01 |
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By: Kr55 on Tue, 11 December 2018 10:06 |
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Re: Ference paints ugly picture of time with Oilers |
By: Adam on Tue, 11 December 2018 17:14 |
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Nuge counters |
By: Daftmonk on Tue, 11 December 2018 17:43 |
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Re: Nuge counters |
By: Adam on Tue, 11 December 2018 17:52 |
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By: Jay on Wed, 12 December 2018 09:31 |
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By: K.McC#24 on Tue, 11 December 2018 19:21 |
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By: Adam on Tue, 11 December 2018 20:56 |
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By: K.McC#24 on Tue, 11 December 2018 21:15 |
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By: Adam on Tue, 11 December 2018 21:47 |
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By: K.McC#24 on Tue, 11 December 2018 21:55 |
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By: Adam on Tue, 11 December 2018 21:58 |
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Re: Nuge counters |
By: smyth260 on Tue, 11 December 2018 22:20 |
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Re: Nuge counters |
By: Adam on Tue, 11 December 2018 22:38 |
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Re: Ference paints ugly picture of time with Oilers |
By: Adam on Wed, 12 December 2018 11:01 |
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Re: Ference paints ugly picture of time with Oilers |
By: Kr55 on Wed, 12 December 2018 11:55 |
