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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837748 is a reply to message #837747 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 4392
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:55

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:54

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:44

.. Giving our management the benefit of the doubt that they did know, but let him his 80 anyways. )


You might be right ..

Crew: "Captain looks like there's an iceberg ahead.."

Captain: ".. full speed ahead.."



Everyone notices the Captain is sailing away on the last lifeboat

Thankfully the mess left behind isn't THAT bad. One could argue the iceberg is Nurse though icon_biggrin Maybe a little bit the 5 years of weak drafting as well.

LOL! Yeah you're right .. the real picture was;

Crew: "Captain looks like there's an iceberg ahead.."

Captain (from Life Boat) : ".. full speed ahead.."



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837755 is a reply to message #837744 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2332
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Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:41

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:30

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:53

stemhovlichski wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 11:52

Just hearing this info:

"Currently to be tendered an offer sheet, a player must: Have at least one NHL contract expire. Have played at least 80 NHL games if a forward or defenseman..."

Philip Broberg Career Stats: GP 81

Oilers played him on April 17 and 18, thereby exposing him to an offer sheet. Keep him off the bench for 2 meaningless games and he is not eligible for the offer sheet.

"Asset management" is not in the Oilers' dictionary.



Do playoff games count toward the total?
If they don't.. Oilers really screwed up.



Regular season only.

Issue would be, his agent would know this and likely would have been pressuring for Broberg to get over the 80 game mark. And Holland is such a nice guy, he probably kept Broberg in as long as he did to try to work the relationship.

MacT once shut Drai down 1 game before he would have burned an RFA year and that came back to bite us a bit with his agent. Players/agents know what's up.

Considering the Broberg relationship was already kinda sour, I wouldn't have given in and let them get the 80 games. He'd be holding out right now asking for a trade, and we could try to work a better trade for the org after his playoffs. Oh well though, Holland is out.


Somebody really F'd up here then.
How do you NOT have a guy/system who monitors EVERY players RFA/UFA/contract status in real time?



Giving our management the benefit of the doubt that they did know, but let him his 80 anyways. In general Holland didn't seem to care about our cap or what ppl would deal with after he would be gone, hence the Connor Brown deal and bonuses for Perry. Also, Holland seems to always take the nice generous guy approach with most things. Can afford to, the generational talents will always come through in the end, right? :)



I believe this was debunked as not being factual. A few of the posts have been deleted. Lacking a source though.



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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837756 is a reply to message #837755 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10692
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 22:55

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:41

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:30

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:53

stemhovlichski wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 11:52

Just hearing this info:

"Currently to be tendered an offer sheet, a player must: Have at least one NHL contract expire. Have played at least 80 NHL games if a forward or defenseman..."

Philip Broberg Career Stats: GP 81

Oilers played him on April 17 and 18, thereby exposing him to an offer sheet. Keep him off the bench for 2 meaningless games and he is not eligible for the offer sheet.

"Asset management" is not in the Oilers' dictionary.



Do playoff games count toward the total?
If they don't.. Oilers really screwed up.



Regular season only.

Issue would be, his agent would know this and likely would have been pressuring for Broberg to get over the 80 game mark. And Holland is such a nice guy, he probably kept Broberg in as long as he did to try to work the relationship.

MacT once shut Drai down 1 game before he would have burned an RFA year and that came back to bite us a bit with his agent. Players/agents know what's up.

Considering the Broberg relationship was already kinda sour, I wouldn't have given in and let them get the 80 games. He'd be holding out right now asking for a trade, and we could try to work a better trade for the org after his playoffs. Oh well though, Holland is out.


Somebody really F'd up here then.
How do you NOT have a guy/system who monitors EVERY players RFA/UFA/contract status in real time?



Giving our management the benefit of the doubt that they did know, but let him his 80 anyways. In general Holland didn't seem to care about our cap or what ppl would deal with after he would be gone, hence the Connor Brown deal and bonuses for Perry. Also, Holland seems to always take the nice generous guy approach with most things. Can afford to, the generational talents will always come through in the end, right? :)



I believe this was debunked as not being factual. A few of the posts have been deleted. Lacking a source though.


That the org knew? Or didn't know?

Or about how a manager can just do whatever if they have a generational talent, and things will always just work out? icon_biggrin



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837757 is a reply to message #837756 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 01:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 4392
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Location: Burnaby, BC

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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 22:25

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 22:55

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:41

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:30

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:53

stemhovlichski wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 11:52

Just hearing this info:

"Currently to be tendered an offer sheet, a player must: Have at least one NHL contract expire. Have played at least 80 NHL games if a forward or defenseman..."

Philip Broberg Career Stats: GP 81

Oilers played him on April 17 and 18, thereby exposing him to an offer sheet. Keep him off the bench for 2 meaningless games and he is not eligible for the offer sheet.

"Asset management" is not in the Oilers' dictionary.



Do playoff games count toward the total?
If they don't.. Oilers really screwed up.



Regular season only.

Issue would be, his agent would know this and likely would have been pressuring for Broberg to get over the 80 game mark. And Holland is such a nice guy, he probably kept Broberg in as long as he did to try to work the relationship.

MacT once shut Drai down 1 game before he would have burned an RFA year and that came back to bite us a bit with his agent. Players/agents know what's up.

Considering the Broberg relationship was already kinda sour, I wouldn't have given in and let them get the 80 games. He'd be holding out right now asking for a trade, and we could try to work a better trade for the org after his playoffs. Oh well though, Holland is out.


Somebody really F'd up here then.
How do you NOT have a guy/system who monitors EVERY players RFA/UFA/contract status in real time?



Giving our management the benefit of the doubt that they did know, but let him his 80 anyways. In general Holland didn't seem to care about our cap or what ppl would deal with after he would be gone, hence the Connor Brown deal and bonuses for Perry. Also, Holland seems to always take the nice generous guy approach with most things. Can afford to, the generational talents will always come through in the end, right? :)



I believe this was debunked as not being factual. A few of the posts have been deleted. Lacking a source though.


That the org knew? Or didn't know?

Or about how a manager can just do whatever if they have a generational talent, and things will always just work out? icon_biggrin


I think I read a short post by someone on lowetide that said that the 81st game wasn't a factor in the offer sheet for Broberg.. that he qualified based on playing in a 3rd season.. ??


Here is Wiki..
According to this the 80 games wasn't an issue.. it was his 3rd season and he signed his 3 year ELC when he was about 20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_players_who_have_s igned_offer_sheets#:~:text=Teams%20have%20seven%20days%20to, Agent%20(Group%202%20RFA).
Quote:

In the NHL, players who are restricted free agents can be, after being qualified by their current team, signed by another team to an offer sheet with salary greater than the qualifying offer.

Teams have seven days to match the offer, and if the offer is not matched, the team making the offer sheet must give up compensation (see here for details).

Currently to be tendered an offer sheet, a player must qualify as a Group 2 Restricted Free Agent (Group 2 RFA). To be considered a Group 2 RFA, a player must:

1. Reach the required number of professional seasons depending on the age of the player when he first signs his Standard Player Contract. (3 professional seasons for ages 18-21, 2 professional seasons for ages 22-23, and 1 professional season for ages 23 and older)

2. Have at least one NHL contract expire.

3. Be without a contract for the upcoming season.

4. Be tendered a qualifying offer by the current team by June 25 or the Monday after that year's NHL Entry Draft (whichever is later)

If any of those conditions has not been met, the player will not become a Group 2 RFA.

[Updated on: Wed, 21 August 2024 02:01]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837760 is a reply to message #837757 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10692
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 01:51

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 22:25

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 22:55

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:41

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:30

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:53

stemhovlichski wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 11:52

Just hearing this info:

"Currently to be tendered an offer sheet, a player must: Have at least one NHL contract expire. Have played at least 80 NHL games if a forward or defenseman..."

Philip Broberg Career Stats: GP 81

Oilers played him on April 17 and 18, thereby exposing him to an offer sheet. Keep him off the bench for 2 meaningless games and he is not eligible for the offer sheet.

"Asset management" is not in the Oilers' dictionary.



Do playoff games count toward the total?
If they don't.. Oilers really screwed up.



Regular season only.

Issue would be, his agent would know this and likely would have been pressuring for Broberg to get over the 80 game mark. And Holland is such a nice guy, he probably kept Broberg in as long as he did to try to work the relationship.

MacT once shut Drai down 1 game before he would have burned an RFA year and that came back to bite us a bit with his agent. Players/agents know what's up.

Considering the Broberg relationship was already kinda sour, I wouldn't have given in and let them get the 80 games. He'd be holding out right now asking for a trade, and we could try to work a better trade for the org after his playoffs. Oh well though, Holland is out.


Somebody really F'd up here then.
How do you NOT have a guy/system who monitors EVERY players RFA/UFA/contract status in real time?



Giving our management the benefit of the doubt that they did know, but let him his 80 anyways. In general Holland didn't seem to care about our cap or what ppl would deal with after he would be gone, hence the Connor Brown deal and bonuses for Perry. Also, Holland seems to always take the nice generous guy approach with most things. Can afford to, the generational talents will always come through in the end, right? :)



I believe this was debunked as not being factual. A few of the posts have been deleted. Lacking a source though.


That the org knew? Or didn't know?

Or about how a manager can just do whatever if they have a generational talent, and things will always just work out? icon_biggrin


I think I read a short post by someone on lowetide that said that the 81st game wasn't a factor in the offer sheet for Broberg.. that he qualified based on playing in a 3rd season.. ??


Here is Wiki..
According to this the 80 games wasn't an issue.. it was his 3rd season and he signed his 3 year ELC when he was about 20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_players_who_have_s igned_offer_sheets#:~:text=Teams%20have%20seven%20days%20to, Agent%20(Group%202%20RFA).
Quote:

In the NHL, players who are restricted free agents can be, after being qualified by their current team, signed by another team to an offer sheet with salary greater than the qualifying offer.

Teams have seven days to match the offer, and if the offer is not matched, the team making the offer sheet must give up compensation (see here for details).

Currently to be tendered an offer sheet, a player must qualify as a Group 2 Restricted Free Agent (Group 2 RFA). To be considered a Group 2 RFA, a player must:

1. Reach the required number of professional seasons depending on the age of the player when he first signs his Standard Player Contract. (3 professional seasons for ages 18-21, 2 professional seasons for ages 22-23, and 1 professional season for ages 23 and older)

2. Have at least one NHL contract expire.

3. Be without a contract for the upcoming season.

4. Be tendered a qualifying offer by the current team by June 25 or the Monday after that year's NHL Entry Draft (whichever is later)

If any of those conditions has not been met, the player will not become a Group 2 RFA.




ahhh k. He would probably be worth even less than a 2nd if we didn't even play him this last year, plus he'd REALLY be demanding a trade, so guess it is what it is.




"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837761 is a reply to message #837757 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stemhovlichski  is currently offline stemhovlichski
Messages: 349
Registered: March 2006
Location: NSR

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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 01:51

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 22:25

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 22:55

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:44

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:41

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:30

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:53

stemhovlichski wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 11:52

Just hearing this info:

"Currently to be tendered an offer sheet, a player must: Have at least one NHL contract expire. Have played at least 80 NHL games if a forward or defenseman..."

Philip Broberg Career Stats: GP 81

Oilers played him on April 17 and 18, thereby exposing him to an offer sheet. Keep him off the bench for 2 meaningless games and he is not eligible for the offer sheet.

"Asset management" is not in the Oilers' dictionary.



Do playoff games count toward the total?
If they don't.. Oilers really screwed up.



Regular season only.

Issue would be, his agent would know this and likely would have been pressuring for Broberg to get over the 80 game mark. And Holland is such a nice guy, he probably kept Broberg in as long as he did to try to work the relationship.

MacT once shut Drai down 1 game before he would have burned an RFA year and that came back to bite us a bit with his agent. Players/agents know what's up.

Considering the Broberg relationship was already kinda sour, I wouldn't have given in and let them get the 80 games. He'd be holding out right now asking for a trade, and we could try to work a better trade for the org after his playoffs. Oh well though, Holland is out.


Somebody really F'd up here then.
How do you NOT have a guy/system who monitors EVERY players RFA/UFA/contract status in real time?



Giving our management the benefit of the doubt that they did know, but let him his 80 anyways. In general Holland didn't seem to care about our cap or what ppl would deal with after he would be gone, hence the Connor Brown deal and bonuses for Perry. Also, Holland seems to always take the nice generous guy approach with most things. Can afford to, the generational talents will always come through in the end, right? :)



I believe this was debunked as not being factual. A few of the posts have been deleted. Lacking a source though.


That the org knew? Or didn't know?

Or about how a manager can just do whatever if they have a generational talent, and things will always just work out? icon_biggrin


I think I read a short post by someone on lowetide that said that the 81st game wasn't a factor in the offer sheet for Broberg.. that he qualified based on playing in a 3rd season.. ??


Here is Wiki..
According to this the 80 games wasn't an issue.. it was his 3rd season and he signed his 3 year ELC when he was about 20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_players_who_have_s igned_offer_sheets#:~:text=Teams%20have%20seven%20days%20to, Agent%20(Group%202%20RFA).
Quote:

In the NHL, players who are restricted free agents can be, after being qualified by their current team, signed by another team to an offer sheet with salary greater than the qualifying offer.

Teams have seven days to match the offer, and if the offer is not matched, the team making the offer sheet must give up compensation (see here for details).

Currently to be tendered an offer sheet, a player must qualify as a Group 2 Restricted Free Agent (Group 2 RFA). To be considered a Group 2 RFA, a player must:

1. Reach the required number of professional seasons depending on the age of the player when he first signs his Standard Player Contract. (3 professional seasons for ages 18-21, 2 professional seasons for ages 22-23, and 1 professional season for ages 23 and older)

2. Have at least one NHL contract expire.

3. Be without a contract for the upcoming season.

4. Be tendered a qualifying offer by the current team by June 25 or the Monday after that year's NHL Entry Draft (whichever is later)

If any of those conditions has not been met, the player will not become a Group 2 RFA.



Thanks for finding this info. I checked around for confirmation of the various CBA RFA terms but there's nothing relatively easy to find. Looks like the 80 game limit is for a Group 6 UFA (which despite its name is an RFA status) and is age 25+.

Articles like this one below show incomplete information that could misinform NHL followers about actual CBA RFA eligibility requirements:
https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nhl/news/nhl-offer-sheet-com pensation-rules-restricted-free-agents/gwhzvmvbcjbsmyf3qlckh drz




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"...the Oilers have been rebuilding for so long that it’s hard not to be cynical." - NBC's Ryan Dadoun Jan 2, 2015

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837728 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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I think Beau Akey is now Oilers best D prospect.. and he's playing OHL again this season.. long way off.
Wanner is sometimes highlighted.. but he's projecting a 3rd NHL pair IMO.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837731 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Cap situation after today

Quote:

PuckPedia@PuckPedia

With Oilers not matching Broberg/Holloway, have $946K Projected Cap Space for 21 healthy + Kane. With no moves, this can fit $4.4M annual cap hit @ deadline.

Or, could submit roster including Savoie that's $59K under cap, put Kane on LTIR, & be able to exceed cap by $5.066M while Kane is out. They would not accrue cap space though & when later exiting LTIR would start at 0 space accrued




McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837733 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Location: Burnaby, BC

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Oilers only have 2 top 4 D-men now..
.. too bad about Nurse.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837736 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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We were old. Now we are very old…


Clean house or bust

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837737 is a reply to message #837736 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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smyth260 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:08

We were old. Now we are very old…


Are we older? The guys we got are the same age or thereabouts to the two out, and Ceci's departure actually makes us younger.

We are an old team still, but not sure the last week in the end shakes out with the average age increasing at all.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837739 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Quote:

Jeremy Rutherford
@jprutherford

Army on offer sheets to Edmonton: "It was reported that I wouldn't have done this to Kenny Holland. That's the furthest thing from the truth. Quite honestly I'd do it to my mother if she was managing the Oilers. My job is to take care of St. Louis Blues' fans and organization."


Great line here. Incredible.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837740 is a reply to message #837739 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Location: Edmonton

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Adam wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:30

Quote:

Jeremy Rutherford
@jprutherford

Army on offer sheets to Edmonton: "It was reported that I wouldn't have done this to Kenny Holland. That's the furthest thing from the truth. Quite honestly I'd do it to my mother if she was managing the Oilers. My job is to take care of St. Louis Blues' fans and organization."


Great line here. Incredible.


Don't believe him. He would have called up old Ken and told him he was interested in Broberg who was holding out, and Ken would have traded him Broberg for a 2nd straight up :) And Blues would have Broberg for 2.5M instead.




"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837741 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Lowetide keeps pumping this guys tires.. Gustav Lindstrom.. UFA.. RHD.. 25 years old.. Detroit 2nd rounder..

https://puckpedia.com/player/gustav-lindstrom



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837742 is a reply to message #837741 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:38

Lowetide keeps pumping this guys tires.. Gustav Lindstrom.. UFA.. RHD.. 25 years old.. Detroit 2nd rounder..

https://puckpedia.com/player/gustav-lindstrom


Name is pretty close to Lidstrom, so I'm all for it.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837745 is a reply to message #837742 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:39

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:38

Lowetide keeps pumping this guys tires.. Gustav Lindstrom.. UFA.. RHD.. 25 years old.. Detroit 2nd rounder..

https://puckpedia.com/player/gustav-lindstrom


Name is pretty close to Lidstrom, so I'm all for it.


He played on Sweden's U-20 team.. played 174 NHL games.. Detroit, Montreal and Anaheim.. played 32 games last year for Anaheim was +12.. confused2

His last contract was $950K

[Updated on: Tue, 20 August 2024 14:03]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837749 is a reply to message #837745 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG  is currently offline NetBOG
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Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:51

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 12:39

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 13:38

Lowetide keeps pumping this guys tires.. Gustav Lindstrom.. UFA.. RHD.. 25 years old.. Detroit 2nd rounder..

https://puckpedia.com/player/gustav-lindstrom


Name is pretty close to Lidstrom, so I'm all for it.


He played on Sweden's U-20 team.. played 174 NHL games.. Detroit, Montreal and Anaheim.. played 32 games last year for Anaheim was +12.. confused2

His last contract was $950K


I expect the call goes out to Tyson Barrie, Loved in the room and a functional RD. Might sign for $1-1.5 Million.



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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837759 is a reply to message #837745 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 08:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndersonRules  is currently offline AndersonRules
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How on earth does ANYONE end up a positive player on Anaheim last year?!?!?


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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837750 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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In retrospect the Ceci trade probably was used to create leverage with St. louis to get the extra 3rd and prospect.. created the space to show Oilers had ability to match..

If Broberg hits.. they'll really miss him in 3 to 4 years when Ekholm tails off..



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837751 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Bowman interview here;

He knows Fischer and was on his radar.. so implies they value him.. time will tell.

Seems like they were most worried about matching the offer sheets and its effect on future contracts long term (i.e. Bouchard, Leon, McD)

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/video/

[Updated on: Tue, 20 August 2024 15:27]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837752 is a reply to message #837751 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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A $1m Holloway and a $1.8m Broberg sure would be nice right about now…

Sad to see them go, but I think given the situation it was the right call.

You cant look Leon in the eye and expect him to take less with Broberg sitting there making almost triple what he should.

It’s not crippling for this year or next, but a couple of guys outperforming their contracts these next couple of years sure would have been nice.



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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837753 is a reply to message #837752 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Mike wrote on Tue, 20 August 2024 16:48

A $1m Holloway and a $1.8m Broberg sure would be nice right about now…
... a couple of guys outperforming their contracts these next couple of years sure would have been nice.



Agree. Cup contending teams need guys like this in order to retain their top players on the team as they go to UFA.. good young RFA players playing for low cap help immensely for cap management.. if handled correctly..

Broberg was looking like one of them..

[Updated on: Tue, 20 August 2024 19:08]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837754 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Tue, 20 August 2024 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Nurse could really help correct this defensive set back for the Oilers roster, if he actually improved his play this season up to a 2nd pairing defenceman.. his 9.25 (and NMC) is a boat anchor on this franchise until he plays better.. guy has to improve.


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837758 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 02:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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I was reviewing past offer sheets.. compensation has sure changed over the years..

Scot Stevens was offer sheeted by St. Louis (again!) in 1990 when he was with Washington..

St. Louis had to cough up FIVE (5) 1st round picks !!



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837762 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260  is currently offline smyth260
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We can never have a pickleball tournament again.

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/blog-broberg-holloway-win-oi lers-pickleball-tournament



Clean house or bust

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837763 is a reply to message #837762 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike  is currently offline Mike
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Probably some sour grapes on my part, but Holloway talks about a better opportunity in St Louis, and though I understand how he arrived at that, I couldn't disagree with him more.

As an Oilers 1st rounder who was given a shot in the playoffs and looked pretty good, who was still going to be somewhat cheap, he was going to given all sorts of rope and opportunity - and at times opportunity with some of the best to ever play the game. He was penciled in on the 3rd line with a definite possibility of getting time in the top 6 in case of injury and maybe some PP2 time.

He might have left a few $ on the table the next year or two, but I would wager that he would have more than made up for it, multiple times over on his next deal. Plus a realistic chance at a Cup. I think it was a stupid move for him.

Broberg on the other hand - going from the rumoured $1.8 to over $4.5? I really can't blame him for that - with any modicum of fiscal responsibility, that is set for life money. I'm sad to not have him on our blue line for under $2M, but really can't blame him for cashing in on that OS.



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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837764 is a reply to message #837763 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Mike wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 12:42

Probably some sour grapes on my part, but Holloway talks about a better opportunity in St Louis, and though I understand how he arrived at that, I couldn't disagree with him more.

As an Oilers 1st rounder who was given a shot in the playoffs and looked pretty good, who was still going to be somewhat cheap, he was going to given all sorts of rope and opportunity - and at times opportunity with some of the best to ever play the game. He was penciled in on the 3rd line with a definite possibility of getting time in the top 6 in case of injury and maybe some PP2 time.

He might have left a few $ on the table the next year or two, but I would wager that he would have more than made up for it, multiple times over on his next deal. Plus a realistic chance at a Cup. I think it was a stupid move for him.

Broberg on the other hand - going from the rumoured $1.8 to over $4.5? I really can't blame him for that - with any modicum of fiscal responsibility, that is set for life money. I'm sad to not have him on our blue line for under $2M, but really can't blame him for cashing in on that OS.

It's sour grapes. No chance Holloway wants to be a cheap option for the third line, maybe top 6, with 15 seconds of PP time. That kind of usage might win him a cup but definitely devalues his next contract. Any success he has in Edmonton gets mentally credited to the good players (sort of like Holland's decision making) and he never finds out if he's actually a top 6 or maybe even top 3 player. He certainly never gets paid like a line driving top 6 forward. ESPECIALLY when the Oilers have old forwards like Perry and Skinner and Henrique and basically everyone else in the bottom six who can fill the role of cheapish guy who might be able to move up and play the PP sometimes.

Take the money and the opportunity when it comes. I've got my eyes on my next 2 jobs here, but if the shop down the street offers me the middle job at a premium tomorrow... I'm walking. I'll have two wads of cash in my ears when my former co-workers start grousing about.



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837765 is a reply to message #837763 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Mike wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 12:42

Probably some sour grapes on my part, but Holloway talks about a better opportunity in St Louis, and though I understand how he arrived at that, I couldn't disagree with him more.

As an Oilers 1st rounder who was given a shot in the playoffs and looked pretty good, who was still going to be somewhat cheap, he was going to given all sorts of rope and opportunity - and at times opportunity with some of the best to ever play the game. He was penciled in on the 3rd line with a definite possibility of getting time in the top 6 in case of injury and maybe some PP2 time.

He might have left a few $ on the table the next year or two, but I would wager that he would have more than made up for it, multiple times over on his next deal. Plus a realistic chance at a Cup. I think it was a stupid move for him.

Broberg on the other hand - going from the rumoured $1.8 to over $4.5? I really can't blame him for that - with any modicum of fiscal responsibility, that is set for life money. I'm sad to not have him on our blue line for under $2M, but really can't blame him for cashing in on that OS.


I think the Broberg ask of us was 1.8M? And we offered 1.1M? Kinda shows how we were valuing him as a player, hehe. Seems Broberg agent was very active looking for an offer sheet. Think I saw his agent has a reputation I think of being ruthless, but considering our rumored offer, it is fair as well they went looking. Ended up with at least 3 on the table, and wouldn't be surprised if the Blues were the high bidder. A little coordination with the Holloway camp to increase the chances Broberg can get out of town and it all worked out. Maybe Holloway was expecting a match though since sounds like he only had 0.5M over the number they were close on with us.

My takeaway from this is Broberg definitely wanted out, period. He was behind Ekholm and Nurse, plus Kulak for his natural side here. Blues have a wide open spot on the left. There is nothing not to like from his perspective on this move. He was gonna be set up to fail here being tried with Nurse full time, which likely would have been a disaster for him and the team.

Holloway, oh well. This guy doesn't really move the needle for me. I don't see him being that great in the top 6, I don't think he has the hockey sense to really become that great. Maybe he was hoping for the match, but this was not the time for us to be catering to a bottom 6 guy. We have forwards. We need to finally get that 2nd pair RHD.

[Updated on: Wed, 21 August 2024 13:42]


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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837766 is a reply to message #837763 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilfan94  is currently offline oilfan94
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Mike wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 14:42

Probably some sour grapes on my part, but Holloway talks about a better opportunity in St Louis, and though I understand how he arrived at that, I couldn't disagree with him more.

As an Oilers 1st rounder who was given a shot in the playoffs and looked pretty good, who was still going to be somewhat cheap, he was going to given all sorts of rope and opportunity - and at times opportunity with some of the best to ever play the game. He was penciled in on the 3rd line with a definite possibility of getting time in the top 6 in case of injury and maybe some PP2 time.

He might have left a few $ on the table the next year or two, but I would wager that he would have more than made up for it, multiple times over on his next deal. Plus a realistic chance at a Cup. I think it was a stupid move for him.

Broberg on the other hand - going from the rumoured $1.8 to over $4.5? I really can't blame him for that - with any modicum of fiscal responsibility, that is set for life money. I'm sad to not have him on our blue line for under $2M, but really can't blame him for cashing in on that OS.


Honestly, I think that for most young and unestablished players, making money is primary and winning a cup is secondary. I don't think this is a generational thing, I think that is how it has been for a long time. A player wants to get into the league, get a good contract, make good money and then hopefully his team contends at some point, or else he'll start jumping to contenders at the end of his big contract and if he is lucky he'll win a cup. From a purely personal perspective, it is what makes the most sense to do. Players all say they want to win, but only a few do (and they change their minds over the years).



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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837767 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Listened to Stauffer phone in yesterday on ON.

You can tell he's pissed at management (probably Holland).. he usually tries to put a positive spin on things but having a hard time.. he understands why you'd wouldn't match the offer sheets.. but the missed opportunity was last year.. and obvious.

The Broberg loss really stings.. IMO moves the franchise defence back a few steps.. now and future.

Stauffer said there would obviously be PTO's for RHD

He suggested there was defencemen who might come on a PTO who used to play under Knoblauch.. can't figure out who.. have to be a UFA.. not named Schultz or Barrie.. any guesses?

I got the feeling that there is no pending shoe-to-drop regarding defence.. Bowman kind of indicated in his interview that not matching Broberg/Holloway was due to the Oilers valuation of accruing cap space during the year and not have to use LTIR on Kane.. also cap maneuverability when discussing future extensions with Leon, Bouchard, McDavid.. which I kind of get.. I think the failure by management occurred a year ago when the team had more leverage on the RFA's.

On a positive note.. it slipped out that Leon signing might be pending.. icon_nod

We used to have a lot of promising drafted Defencemen.. after being being a franchise scarcity.. Kesselring, Samaroukov, Broberg, Desharnais, no one left.. best prospect is Beau Akey and he's 2 years away.. at least.. Wanner is in the system.. I saw him play .. potential.. but he's a long ways off.. Kemp? .. his boots are holding him back..

Next draft should be focused on mobile defencemen.. right or left

[Updated on: Wed, 21 August 2024 15:49]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837768 is a reply to message #837767 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi  is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 15:17



He suggested there was defencemen who might come on a PTO who used to play under Knoblauch.. can't figure out who.. have to be a UFA.. not named Schultz or Barrie.. any guesses?


Travis Dermott played for the Erie Otters.

Other UFA RDs:

Keven Shattenkirk
Robert Bortuzzo
Filip Johansson
Cal Foote

Quote:

I think the failure by management occurred a year ago when the team had more leverage on the RFA's.


Same at it ever was. Always always chasing the mistakes.



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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837769 is a reply to message #837768 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 14:35

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 15:17



He suggested there was defencemen who might come on a PTO who used to play under Knoblauch.. can't figure out who.. have to be a UFA.. not named Schultz or Barrie.. any guesses?


Travis Dermott played for the Erie Otters.

Other UFA RDs:

Keven Shattenkirk
Robert Bortuzzo
Filip Johansson
Cal Foote



Good catch.. Dermott was a teammate of McDavid as well.. TD was pretty good as a junior..
His first agent was Jeff Jackson as well..
He's bounced around the NHL.. its all about mobility.. you got it or don't.. have no idea what his skating is like

[Updated on: Wed, 21 August 2024 16:16]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837770 is a reply to message #837767 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 16:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 15:17

Listened to Stauffer phone in yesterday on ON.

You can tell he's pissed at management (probably Holland).. he usually tries to put a positive spin on things but having a hard time.. he understands why you'd wouldn't match the offer sheets.. but the missed opportunity was last year.. and obvious.

The Broberg loss really stings.. IMO moves the franchise defence back a few steps.. now and future.

Stauffer said there would obviously be PTO's for RHD

He suggested there was defencemen who might come on a PTO who used to play under Knoblauch.. can't figure out who.. have to be a UFA.. not named Schultz or Barrie.. any guesses?

I got the feeling that there is no pending shoe-to-drop regarding defence.. Bowman kind of indicated in his interview that not matching Broberg/Holloway was due to the Oilers valuation of accruing cap space during the year and not have to use LTIR on Kane.. also cap maneuverability when discussing future extensions with Leon, Bouchard, McDavid.. which I kind of get.. I think the failure by management occurred a year ago when the team had more leverage on the RFA's.

On a positive note.. it slipped out that Leon signing might be pending.. icon_nod

We used to have a lot of promising drafted Defencemen.. after being being a franchise scarcity.. Kesselring, Samaroukov, Broberg, Desharnais, no one left.. best prospect is Beau Akey and he's 2 years away.. at least.. Wanner is in the system.. I saw him play .. potential.. but he's a long ways off.. Kemp? .. his boots are holding him back..

Next draft should be focused on mobile defencemen.. right or left


Would either of these guys signed early a year ago though? Both probably felt like they didn't get enough opportunity. Broberg was probably already thinking he needs to get out of here. Neither did enough to warrant a spot on the roster too. Both mediocre 1st round picks that were taking a long time to figure out how to be useful in the NHL for more than little spurts at a time. Holloway never actually got to a point of consistent usefulness. Broberg had some good sheltered 3rd pair time with Bouchard doing all the playmaking, and 2 weeks of luck where he could do no wrong because Skinner would do backflips for him and Nurse.

Both guys in weird spots in their early careers. Both hoping for some kind of opportunity and things finally working. I really don't see either signing until the summer anyways. So, the question would be if you abandon what we did July 1st just for more buffer with these guys. We weren't giving Broberg 4.5M, and his agent is a known sneaky bugger, so we likely end up with a trade request and/or the 4.5M offersheet anyways with him. Holloway maybe we are more willing to keep and overpay a bit if we didn't get the guys we did July 1st, but I don't really like that trade-off anyways.

To me, the root of all these issues is more about weak drafting than anything else. If these players were actually good, we would have gone to greater lengths to play them and keep them.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837771 is a reply to message #837770 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 16:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 15:08

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 15:17

Listened to Stauffer phone in yesterday on ON.

You can tell he's pissed at management (probably Holland).. he usually tries to put a positive spin on things but having a hard time.. he understands why you'd wouldn't match the offer sheets.. but the missed opportunity was last year.. and obvious.

The Broberg loss really stings.. IMO moves the franchise defence back a few steps.. now and future.

Stauffer said there would obviously be PTO's for RHD

He suggested there was defencemen who might come on a PTO who used to play under Knoblauch.. can't figure out who.. have to be a UFA.. not named Schultz or Barrie.. any guesses?

I got the feeling that there is no pending shoe-to-drop regarding defence.. Bowman kind of indicated in his interview that not matching Broberg/Holloway was due to the Oilers valuation of accruing cap space during the year and not have to use LTIR on Kane.. also cap maneuverability when discussing future extensions with Leon, Bouchard, McDavid.. which I kind of get.. I think the failure by management occurred a year ago when the team had more leverage on the RFA's.

On a positive note.. it slipped out that Leon signing might be pending.. icon_nod

We used to have a lot of promising drafted Defencemen.. after being being a franchise scarcity.. Kesselring, Samaroukov, Broberg, Desharnais, no one left.. best prospect is Beau Akey and he's 2 years away.. at least.. Wanner is in the system.. I saw him play .. potential.. but he's a long ways off.. Kemp? .. his boots are holding him back..

Next draft should be focused on mobile defencemen.. right or left


Would either of these guys signed early a year ago though? Both probably felt like they didn't get enough opportunity. Broberg was probably already thinking he needs to get out of here. Neither did enough to warrant a spot on the roster too. Both mediocre 1st round picks that were taking a long time to figure out how to be useful in the NHL for more than little spurts at a time. Holloway never actually got to a point of consistent usefulness. Broberg had some good sheltered 3rd pair time with Bouchard doing all the playmaking, and 2 weeks of luck where he could do no wrong because Skinner would do backflips for him and Nurse.

Both guys in weird spots in their early careers. Both hoping for some kind of opportunity and things finally working. I really don't see either signing until the summer anyways. So, the question would be if you abandon what we did July 1st just for more buffer with these guys. We weren't giving Broberg 4.5M, and his agent is a known sneaky bugger, so we likely end up with a trade request and/or the 4.5M offersheet anyways with him. Holloway maybe we are more willing to keep and overpay a bit if we didn't get the guys we did July 1st, but I don't really like that trade-off anyways.

To me, the root of all these issues is more about weak drafting than anything else. If these players were actually good, we would have gone to greater lengths to play them and keep them.


Brian Lawton was asked that very question by Stauffer in a previous show (last week?).. would they have signed even at last Christmas when they were sent down?.. as a past agent.. he said definitely yes, they would have.. maybe not as cheap as the Oilers were offering.. but an order of magnitude lower than what the offer sheets were.



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837772 is a reply to message #837771 ]
Wed, 21 August 2024 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 16:14

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 15:08

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 21 August 2024 15:17

Listened to Stauffer phone in yesterday on ON.

You can tell he's pissed at management (probably Holland).. he usually tries to put a positive spin on things but having a hard time.. he understands why you'd wouldn't match the offer sheets.. but the missed opportunity was last year.. and obvious.

The Broberg loss really stings.. IMO moves the franchise defence back a few steps.. now and future.

Stauffer said there would obviously be PTO's for RHD

He suggested there was defencemen who might come on a PTO who used to play under Knoblauch.. can't figure out who.. have to be a UFA.. not named Schultz or Barrie.. any guesses?

I got the feeling that there is no pending shoe-to-drop regarding defence.. Bowman kind of indicated in his interview that not matching Broberg/Holloway was due to the Oilers valuation of accruing cap space during the year and not have to use LTIR on Kane.. also cap maneuverability when discussing future extensions with Leon, Bouchard, McDavid.. which I kind of get.. I think the failure by management occurred a year ago when the team had more leverage on the RFA's.

On a positive note.. it slipped out that Leon signing might be pending.. icon_nod

We used to have a lot of promising drafted Defencemen.. after being being a franchise scarcity.. Kesselring, Samaroukov, Broberg, Desharnais, no one left.. best prospect is Beau Akey and he's 2 years away.. at least.. Wanner is in the system.. I saw him play .. potential.. but he's a long ways off.. Kemp? .. his boots are holding him back..

Next draft should be focused on mobile defencemen.. right or left


Would either of these guys signed early a year ago though? Both probably felt like they didn't get enough opportunity. Broberg was probably already thinking he needs to get out of here. Neither did enough to warrant a spot on the roster too. Both mediocre 1st round picks that were taking a long time to figure out how to be useful in the NHL for more than little spurts at a time. Holloway never actually got to a point of consistent usefulness. Broberg had some good sheltered 3rd pair time with Bouchard doing all the playmaking, and 2 weeks of luck where he could do no wrong because Skinner would do backflips for him and Nurse.

Both guys in weird spots in their early careers. Both hoping for some kind of opportunity and things finally working. I really don't see either signing until the summer anyways. So, the question would be if you abandon what we did July 1st just for more buffer with these guys. We weren't giving Broberg 4.5M, and his agent is a known sneaky bugger, so we likely end up with a trade request and/or the 4.5M offersheet anyways with him. Holloway maybe we are more willing to keep and overpay a bit if we didn't get the guys we did July 1st, but I don't really like that trade-off anyways.

To me, the root of all these issues is more about weak drafting than anything else. If these players were actually good, we would have gone to greater lengths to play them and keep them.


Brian Lawton was asked that very question by Stauffer in a previous show (last week?).. would they have signed even at last Christmas when they were sent down?.. as a past agent.. he said definitely yes, they would have.. maybe not as cheap as the Oilers were offering.. but an order of magnitude lower than what the offer sheets were.


Would be curious to see how often a player on their ELC would sign half a year early. Especially if they were unhappy about how they've been handled. Was suggested Broberg wanted out mid-season too, so I don't see why he would sign anything. Darren Ferris, his agent, seems pretty crafty as well. Word is that he looped in Holloway's agent to create this double offer sheet situation.

Obviously I'm not a GM or former GM, but still just find it unlikely it would have been easy to sign Broberg at any point. And not sure we would even want to give Holloway some kind of little overpay for him to abandon raising his stock the rest of the regular season. Again, wonder how many ELC players who have barely done a thing, and feel they are on the cusp of pulling something off in their last ELC year would sign early? Seems like something only the most conservative minded player/agent would do. Holloway and his agent just showed us they are the gamblin types lol.



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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837779 is a reply to message #837686 ]
Sat, 24 August 2024 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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I'm thinking Tony DeAngelo might be a good signing for a 1 year at league min..
Ex-teammate of Nurse in the Soo.. had much better offense than Nurse.. good skater.. puck mover..



McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
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Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837781 is a reply to message #837779 ]
Sat, 24 August 2024 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 00:17

I'm thinking Tony DeAngelo might be a good signing for a 1 year at league min..
Ex-teammate of Nurse in the Soo.. had much better offense than Nurse.. good skater.. puck mover..


Super talented. Crazy headcase that has pissed off his teammates and org everywhere he has gone.

Would certainly add some drama to the season.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837782 is a reply to message #837781 ]
Sat, 24 August 2024 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 12:19

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 00:17

I'm thinking Tony DeAngelo might be a good signing for a 1 year at league min..
Ex-teammate of Nurse in the Soo.. had much better offense than Nurse.. good skater.. puck mover..


Super talented. Crazy headcase that has pissed off his teammates and org everywhere he has gone.

Would certainly add some drama to the season.


We can room him with Kane!



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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837783 is a reply to message #837782 ]
Sat, 24 August 2024 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stemhovlichski  is currently offline stemhovlichski
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Adam wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 14:35

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 12:19

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 00:17

I'm thinking Tony DeAngelo might be a good signing for a 1 year at league min..
Ex-teammate of Nurse in the Soo.. had much better offense than Nurse.. good skater.. puck mover..


Super talented. Crazy headcase that has pissed off his teammates and org everywhere he has gone.

Would certainly add some drama to the season.


We can room him with Kane!


"On March 8, 2023, the NHL Department of Player Safety issued DeAngelo a two-game suspension for spearing Tampa Bay Lightning forward Corey Perry." - wikipedia



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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837784 is a reply to message #837783 ]
Sat, 24 August 2024 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Skookum Jim  is currently offline Skookum Jim
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stemhovlichski wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 16:15

Adam wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 14:35

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 12:19

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 00:17

I'm thinking Tony DeAngelo might be a good signing for a 1 year at league min..
Ex-teammate of Nurse in the Soo.. had much better offense than Nurse.. good skater.. puck mover..


Super talented. Crazy headcase that has pissed off his teammates and org everywhere he has gone.

Would certainly add some drama to the season.


We can room him with Kane!


"On March 8, 2023, the NHL Department of Player Safety issued DeAngelo a two-game suspension for spearing Tampa Bay Lightning forward Corey Perry." - wikipedia


Its settled then..

"Corey.. you've met Tony.. he'll be your room mate on the road.." icon_nod

I think I remember DeAngelo playing last season in a Hurricaes game vs. Oilers and thinking I was surprised he was so effective, super mobile, puck handler.. hadn't seen him play much in the NHL.. just associated him with news and trades.. general drama.. thought he was just a 6 or 7 D-man.. after watching him play I wondered why Oilers never got him when he was traded/signed for cheap assets..

Drafted by TB #19 overall
Traded to Coyotes for a 2nd
Traded to NYR (with a Coyotes 1st) for D. Stepan + Anti Raanta
NYR bought him out in 2021.. UFA
Signed with Carolina 2021
Traded by Carolina to Flyers in 2022..
Flyers bought him out in 2023 .. UFA
Signed back with Carolina as UFA in 2024 (last season) .. his last contract was $1.68M
..Currently UFA

Give him $1M

DeAngelos last season in OHL
Quote:

2014-2015

CHL Defenseman of the Year
OHL First All-Star Team
OHL Most Assists by Defenseman (64)
OHL Most Goals by Defenseman (25)
OHL Most Outstanding Defenseman (Max Kaminsky Trophy)
OHL Most Points by Defenseman (89)


Recent comments from DeAngelo addressing rumours he was contemplating going to the KHL..
If the KHL is looking like a viable option.. I think he could get signed for league minimum.. probably jump at it..
Quote:

Tony DeAngelo Focused on NHL Contract
Tony DeAngelo is still an unrestricted free agent and hasn’t signed a deal with an NHL club yet. That doesn’t mean he’s jumping to the KHL, as some recent rumors suggest. Instagram account @PuckEmpire posted that they reached out to the defenseman and asked if the rumors were true. DeAngelo denied them.

He noted that he’s not sure where the speculation is coming from and that he’s trying to find a spot on an NHL team. He noted, “I mean, listen. If I don’t have a deal, I would be open to playing overseas but I don’t have anything like that, even close so idk what the heck people are saying haha.”


Story behind why he got waived by NYR ..
Daily Face Off
https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/former-ranger-tony-deangel o-details-infamous-fight-with-alexandar-georgiev

Podcast (good interview.. actually seems like a normal guy.. ?)
Listen to it.. apparently Brett Pesce LOVES DeAngelo (21:20).. dispels a lot of rumours
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpyxezQPxKQ

Quote:

Former Rangers Defenseman Discusses Infamous Fight

The 2020-21 season was an interesting year for NHL defenseman Tony DeAngelo. It was his fourth season with the New York Rangers, he was coming off a career-high 53-point season and expectations were extremely high to continue producing.

While his play should have been the only thing doing the talking, it was DeAngelo’s mouth that got him in trouble and run out of town mid-season.

The free-agent defenseman recently sat down with Jonny Lazarus and Colby Cohen as a guest on Morning Cuppa Hockey, to give his side of the story about how his Rangers tenure concluded. A tenure that had some highs, and some very lows, including the infamous fight with then Rangers’ goaltender Alexandar Georgiev.

“It was a tough game. Georgy struggled. I struggled in the game, we’re playing against Pittsburgh (Jan/30/21), coming down the tunnel, I yelled at Georgy, ‘make a *bleeping save.’ 100%. If I didn’t yell at Georgy, Georgy wasn’t going to turn around and try to do anything. That’s a fact., so obviously I started it, and I wasn’t thinking what happened next was going to happen. That was a surprise to me as Georgy was running hot after the game.”

This is where things take a turn and escalate quickly, as Georgiev, who let in five goals against the Penguins, took matters into his own hands…or mask.

“He turns around and fires a head butt at me. So, you know he has a goalie mask on and I only have the player visor. So, I get a cut on the side of my face. There was nothing to really hit him, so I just hit him quick (swinging his stick), on the goalie mask”, DeAngelo detailed.

“It goes a little bit into the locker room, but nothing really happens, nobody is going to let guys fight in there. Guys break it up, it ends. We’re told the next day, don’t come to the rink. I had a feeling something was going to come there. I thought I was going to get traded to be honest. I wanted to be put on release waivers.”

Even though DeAngelo knew something was likely coming, he was still thrown off by how things played out from the Rangers organization. “Elliotte Friedman broke the news, I didn’t even know yet. I saw through Twitter that I was on waivers”, explained DeAngelo. “To be honest with you, it wasn’t a total shock that I was going to be out of there at that point of the season. The season started off so rocky, and a lot of it being my fault.”

DeAngelo knew the fight in the tunnel shouldn’t have happened and took a lot of accountability for his actions. Looking back, it was obvious he thought it was something the Rangers could have handled differently and he was ready to brush it off and continue on with Georgiev as his goalie.

“Me and Georgy we’re fine. We weren’t the best of buddies, never were the best of buddies, but I think we both would have came back to the rink on Tuesday and everything would have been fine.”

DeAngelo was waived and released by the Rangers and didn’t end up catching on with the Carolina Hurricanes until the following season. Georgiev on the other hand, was traded to the Colorado Avalanche two summers after the incident.

The two crossed paths just one season after the incident and this time no sticks were swung and no headbutts were delivered. “Georgy came up to me when we played the following year in Carolina. Shaking my hand, hugging me. Saying hello, I would say hello to him. It’s just the way hockey guys are.”

[Updated on: Sat, 24 August 2024 18:47]


McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Broberg and Holloway GONE [message #837785 is a reply to message #837784 ]
Sat, 24 August 2024 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10692
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 17:24

stemhovlichski wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 16:15

Adam wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 14:35

Kr55 wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 12:19

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 24 August 2024 00:17

I'm thinking Tony DeAngelo might be a good signing for a 1 year at league min..
Ex-teammate of Nurse in the Soo.. had much better offense than Nurse.. good skater.. puck mover..


Super talented. Crazy headcase that has pissed off his teammates and org everywhere he has gone.

Would certainly add some drama to the season.


We can room him with Kane!


"On March 8, 2023, the NHL Department of Player Safety issued DeAngelo a two-game suspension for spearing Tampa Bay Lightning forward Corey Perry." - wikipedia


Its settled then..

"Corey.. you've met Tony.. he'll be your room mate on the road.." icon_nod

I think I remember DeAngelo playing last season in a Hurricaes game vs. Oilers and thinking I was surprised he was so effective, super mobile, puck handler.. hadn't seen him play much in the NHL.. just associated him with news and trades.. general drama.. thought he was just a 6 or 7 D-man.. after watching him play I wondered why Oilers never got him when he was traded/signed for cheap assets..

Drafted by TB #19 overall
Traded to Coyotes for a 2nd
Traded to NYR (with a Coyotes 1st) for D. Stepan + Anti Raanta
NYR bought him out in 2021.. UFA
Signed with Carolina 2021
Traded by Carolina to Flyers in 2022..
Flyers bought him out in 2023 .. UFA
Signed back with Carolina as UFA in 2024 (last season) .. his last contract was $1.68M
..Currently UFA

Give him $1M

DeAngelos last season in OHL
Quote:

2014-2015

CHL Defenseman of the Year
OHL First All-Star Team
OHL Most Assists by Defenseman (64)
OHL Most Goals by Defenseman (25)
OHL Most Outstanding Defenseman (Max Kaminsky Trophy)
OHL Most Points by Defenseman (89)


Recent comments from DeAngelo addressing rumours he was contemplating going to the KHL..
If the KHL is looking like a viable option.. I think he could get signed for league minimum.. probably jump at it..
Quote:

Tony DeAngelo Focused on NHL Contract
Tony DeAngelo is still an unrestricted free agent and hasn’t signed a deal with an NHL club yet. That doesn’t mean he’s jumping to the KHL, as some recent rumors suggest. Instagram account @PuckEmpire posted that they reached out to the defenseman and asked if the rumors were true. DeAngelo denied them.

He noted that he’s not sure where the speculation is coming from and that he’s trying to find a spot on an NHL team. He noted, “I mean, listen. If I don’t have a deal, I would be open to playing overseas but I don’t have anything like that, even close so idk what the heck people are saying haha.”


Story behind why he got waived by NYR ..
Daily Face Off
https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/former-ranger-tony-deangel o-details-infamous-fight-with-alexandar-georgiev

Podcast (good interview.. actually seems like a normal guy.. ?)
Listen to it.. apparently Brett Pesce LOVES DeAngelo (21:20).. dispels a lot of rumours
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpyxezQPxKQ

Quote:

Former Rangers Defenseman Discusses Infamous Fight

The 2020-21 season was an interesting year for NHL defenseman Tony DeAngelo. It was his fourth season with the New York Rangers, he was coming off a career-high 53-point season and expectations were extremely high to continue producing.

While his play should have been the only thing doing the talking, it was DeAngelo’s mouth that got him in trouble and run out of town mid-season.

The free-agent defenseman recently sat down with Jonny Lazarus and Colby Cohen as a guest on Morning Cuppa Hockey, to give his side of the story about how his Rangers tenure concluded. A tenure that had some highs, and some very lows, including the infamous fight with then Rangers’ goaltender Alexandar Georgiev.

“It was a tough game. Georgy struggled. I struggled in the game, we’re playing against Pittsburgh (Jan/30/21), coming down the tunnel, I yelled at Georgy, ‘make a *bleeping save.’ 100%. If I didn’t yell at Georgy, Georgy wasn’t going to turn around and try to do anything. That’s a fact., so obviously I started it, and I wasn’t thinking what happened next was going to happen. That was a surprise to me as Georgy was running hot after the game.”

This is where things take a turn and escalate quickly, as Georgiev, who let in five goals against the Penguins, took matters into his own hands…or mask.

“He turns around and fires a head butt at me. So, you know he has a goalie mask on and I only have the player visor. So, I get a cut on the side of my face. There was nothing to really hit him, so I just hit him quick (swinging his stick), on the goalie mask”, DeAngelo detailed.

“It goes a little bit into the locker room, but nothing really happens, nobody is going to let guys fight in there. Guys break it up, it ends. We’re told the next day, don’t come to the rink. I had a feeling something was going to come there. I thought I was going to get traded to be honest. I wanted to be put on release waivers.”

Even though DeAngelo knew something was likely coming, he was still thrown off by how things played out from the Rangers organization. “Elliotte Friedman broke the news, I didn’t even know yet. I saw through Twitter that I was on waivers”, explained DeAngelo. “To be honest with you, it wasn’t a total shock that I was going to be out of there at that point of the season. The season started off so rocky, and a lot of it being my fault.”

DeAngelo knew the fight in the tunnel shouldn’t have happened and took a lot of accountability for his actions. Looking back, it was obvious he thought it was something the Rangers could have handled differently and he was ready to brush it off and continue on with Georgiev as his goalie.

“Me and Georgy we’re fine. We weren’t the best of buddies, never were the best of buddies, but I think we both would have came back to the rink on Tuesday and everything would have been fine.”

DeAngelo was waived and released by the Rangers and didn’t end up catching on with the Carolina Hurricanes until the following season. Georgiev on the other hand, was traded to the Colorado Avalanche two summers after the incident.

The two crossed paths just one season after the incident and this time no sticks were swung and no headbutts were delivered. “Georgy came up to me when we played the following year in Carolina. Shaking my hand, hugging me. Saying hello, I would say hello to him. It’s just the way hockey guys are.”




Lol. Imagine DeAngelo in the Oilers room at the start of last season with how Skinner and Campbell were playing.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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