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 Tyler Dellow - Assistant GM Carolina Hurricanes [message #837614]
Sat, 17 August 2024 12:48 Go to next message
welcometotheOC is currently offline welcometotheOC
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I could swear I’ve heard this name around here before … fishing icon_biggrin

… discuss ….

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 Re: Tyler Dellow - Assistant GM Carolina Hurricanes [message #837617 is a reply to message #837614 ]
Sat, 17 August 2024 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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welcometotheOC wrote on Sat, 17 August 2024 12:48

I could swear I’ve heard this name around here before … fishing icon_biggrin

… discuss ….


Who said some guy off Oilfans couldn't be a NHL general manager someday...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Tyler Dellow - Assistant GM Carolina Hurricanes [message #837618 is a reply to message #837617 ]
Sat, 17 August 2024 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
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Adam wrote on Sat, 17 August 2024 15:28

welcometotheOC wrote on Sat, 17 August 2024 12:48

I could swear I’ve heard this name around here before … fishing icon_biggrin

… discuss ….


Who said some guy off Oilfans couldn't be a NHL general manager someday...


Pretty incredible the era we are living in.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: Tyler Dellow - Assistant GM Carolina Hurricanes [message #837619 is a reply to message #837614 ]
Sun, 18 August 2024 01:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MJ is currently offline MJ
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Imagine that, a former poster of this site is now up in the management team for an NHL team.

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 Re: Tyler Dellow - Assistant GM Carolina Hurricanes [message #837620 is a reply to message #837619 ]
Sun, 18 August 2024 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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MJ wrote on Sun, 18 August 2024 01:28

Imagine that, a former poster of this site is now up in the management team for an NHL team.


Pretty cool. icon_thumbsup

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Tyler Dellow - Assistant GM Carolina Hurricanes [message #837629 is a reply to message #837619 ]
Sun, 18 August 2024 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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MJ wrote on Sun, 18 August 2024 01:28

Imagine that, a former poster of this site is now up in the management team for an NHL team.


One of the very first posters I clashed with...I think to the point where I got a warning from you about it. He was suggesting Brodeur was over-rated, and Conklin was better than him...as someone who never was a Conklin fan, I argued pretty hard against this take.

Of course, I may have forgotten some of my worse takes from that era...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Tyler Dellow - Assistant GM Carolina Hurricanes [message #837642 is a reply to message #837629 ]
Mon, 19 August 2024 01:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NCREDiBLE is currently offline NCREDiBLE
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Adam wrote on Sun, 18 August 2024 18:24

MJ wrote on Sun, 18 August 2024 01:28

Imagine that, a former poster of this site is now up in the management team for an NHL team.


One of the very first posters I clashed with...I think to the point where I got a warning from you about it. He was suggesting Brodeur was over-rated, and Conklin was better than him...as someone who never was a Conklin fan, I argued pretty hard against this take.

Of course, I may have forgotten some of my worse takes from that era...


Very cool that a former poster here has a nhl job.
But with that take, WOW!
Brodeur overrated and Conklin better? Was he a Darnell Nurse fan in his time here lol

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 Re: Tyler Dellow - Assistant GM Carolina Hurricanes [message #837643 is a reply to message #837642 ]
Mon, 19 August 2024 08:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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NCREDiBLE wrote on Mon, 19 August 2024 01:41

Adam wrote on Sun, 18 August 2024 18:24

MJ wrote on Sun, 18 August 2024 01:28

Imagine that, a former poster of this site is now up in the management team for an NHL team.


One of the very first posters I clashed with...I think to the point where I got a warning from you about it. He was suggesting Brodeur was over-rated, and Conklin was better than him...as someone who never was a Conklin fan, I argued pretty hard against this take.

Of course, I may have forgotten some of my worse takes from that era...


Very cool that a former poster here has a nhl job.
But with that take, WOW!
Brodeur overrated and Conklin better? Was he a Darnell Nurse fan in his time here lol

I remember it as more of an abstract argument than simply 'Conklin is better'. Conklin became something of a whipping boy during the prologue to the decade of darkness. He wasn't the reason the team was getting obviously worse in the early years of Lowe and MacTavish, but he was an easy person to blame as the team moved on from a mentally defeated Tommy Salo without a plan. Hindsight being 20/20 I now just think he had more talent than we realized and he was simply mismanaged by a woefully inept front office and coach.

Still, I like to propose a trade: Oilfans sends their heartfelt congratulations and slightly fewer bad vibes because of '06 and he Hurricanes send us some contract work.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Tyler Dellow - Assistant GM Carolina Hurricanes [message #837648 is a reply to message #837643 ]
Mon, 19 August 2024 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7174
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Location: Edmonton, AB
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 19 August 2024 08:53

NCREDiBLE wrote on Mon, 19 August 2024 01:41

Adam wrote on Sun, 18 August 2024 18:24

MJ wrote on Sun, 18 August 2024 01:28

Imagine that, a former poster of this site is now up in the management team for an NHL team.


One of the very first posters I clashed with...I think to the point where I got a warning from you about it. He was suggesting Brodeur was over-rated, and Conklin was better than him...as someone who never was a Conklin fan, I argued pretty hard against this take.

Of course, I may have forgotten some of my worse takes from that era...


Very cool that a former poster here has a nhl job.
But with that take, WOW!
Brodeur overrated and Conklin better? Was he a Darnell Nurse fan in his time here lol

I remember it as more of an abstract argument than simply 'Conklin is better'. Conklin became something of a whipping boy during the prologue to the decade of darkness. He wasn't the reason the team was getting obviously worse in the early years of Lowe and MacTavish, but he was an easy person to blame as the team moved on from a mentally defeated Tommy Salo without a plan. Hindsight being 20/20 I now just think he had more talent than we realized and he was simply mismanaged by a woefully inept front office and coach.

Still, I like to propose a trade: Oilfans sends their heartfelt congratulations and slightly fewer bad vibes because of '06 and he Hurricanes send us some contract work.


Yeah - to be fair, this was in 2005 post-Pronger deal. Conklin had been okay in his first year just ahead of the lockout. I always felt like he seemed out of position a lot, another of those athletic goalies the Oilers have loved for so long. I didn't think he was very gracious about taking the top spot from Salo too, who I liked, so there was probably some personal animosity.

It does sound ridiculous when it's phrased the way I did - but I think mudcrutch's argument was based around trying to measure goalies objectively separating them from the team and system. He wasn't a fan of Brodeur, but suggested that he basically always played behind an all-star defence on a team that had a stifling system that limited high danger chances.

I would posit that you can't win as many games as Brodeur did simply because of the system - and that he was in fact a pretty key part of that system.

I do think there's some value in trying to figure out how to measure good goalies on good teams vs. great goalies on bad teams though. It's not easy, and almost two decades ago, I think Dellow had it wrong. Certainly history has shown that Conklin wasn't that good, and people still talk about Brodeur as one of the best all-time. But that was long before he was an Assistant GM, so he may have improved some of his analytics since then, or maybe just doesn't bother with goalie analysis any more and leaves that to others.

I will say, I did grow to appreciate him as a poster here after some of the initial arguments, and I agreed with him on lots too.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Tyler Dellow - Assistant GM Carolina Hurricanes [message #837653 is a reply to message #837648 ]
Mon, 19 August 2024 10:04 Go to previous message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
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Adam wrote on Mon, 19 August 2024 09:55

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 19 August 2024 08:53

NCREDiBLE wrote on Mon, 19 August 2024 01:41

Adam wrote on Sun, 18 August 2024 18:24

MJ wrote on Sun, 18 August 2024 01:28

Imagine that, a former poster of this site is now up in the management team for an NHL team.


One of the very first posters I clashed with...I think to the point where I got a warning from you about it. He was suggesting Brodeur was over-rated, and Conklin was better than him...as someone who never was a Conklin fan, I argued pretty hard against this take.

Of course, I may have forgotten some of my worse takes from that era...


Very cool that a former poster here has a nhl job.
But with that take, WOW!
Brodeur overrated and Conklin better? Was he a Darnell Nurse fan in his time here lol

I remember it as more of an abstract argument than simply 'Conklin is better'. Conklin became something of a whipping boy during the prologue to the decade of darkness. He wasn't the reason the team was getting obviously worse in the early years of Lowe and MacTavish, but he was an easy person to blame as the team moved on from a mentally defeated Tommy Salo without a plan. Hindsight being 20/20 I now just think he had more talent than we realized and he was simply mismanaged by a woefully inept front office and coach.

Still, I like to propose a trade: Oilfans sends their heartfelt congratulations and slightly fewer bad vibes because of '06 and he Hurricanes send us some contract work.


Yeah - to be fair, this was in 2005 post-Pronger deal. Conklin had been okay in his first year just ahead of the lockout. I always felt like he seemed out of position a lot, another of those athletic goalies the Oilers have loved for so long. I didn't think he was very gracious about taking the top spot from Salo too, who I liked, so there was probably some personal animosity.

It does sound ridiculous when it's phrased the way I did - but I think mudcrutch's argument was based around trying to measure goalies objectively separating them from the team and system. He wasn't a fan of Brodeur, but suggested that he basically always played behind an all-star defence on a team that had a stifling system that limited high danger chances.

I would posit that you can't win as many games as Brodeur did simply because of the system - and that he was in fact a pretty key part of that system.

I do think there's some value in trying to figure out how to measure good goalies on good teams vs. great goalies on bad teams though. It's not easy, and almost two decades ago, I think Dellow had it wrong. Certainly history has shown that Conklin wasn't that good, and people still talk about Brodeur as one of the best all-time. But that was long before he was an Assistant GM, so he may have improved some of his analytics since then, or maybe just doesn't bother with goalie analysis any more and leaves that to others.

I will say, I did grow to appreciate him as a poster here after some of the initial arguments, and I agreed with him on lots too.


Trying to look at things through a pure analytical view that isn't properly accounting for tons of other factors can send people to strange places. Like Eakins coming up with a system with the single focus of getting Corsi % >50%, which should automatically mean you have a 2/3 shot at playoffs. Only his system make him fixate on generating and eliminating the most common Corsi's, which occur outside the slot area. So, he decides shooting from anything on the perimeter, and rushing areas away from the slot to reduce perimeter Corsi's was a way to increase our chances at playoffs. Bizzare, but it does make sense if you understand the intention, and Dellow was there helping him do it, lol. Of course, it failed horribly, not that we had the players either to be a playoff team, but boy was it funny and sad to watch the results.

Oh well though, I'm sure loads more nuance as entered into Dellow's approach, and he's climbing the NHL ladder as he does it. Pretty awesome

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 
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