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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837546 is a reply to message #837545 ]	Tue, 13 August 2024 09:58

Kr55
Messages: 10541
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 09:56

As Adam pointed out, giving Corey Perry another year with bonuses looks like a mistake already. I’ll add Josh Brown to that.

The pennies make a difference. Would be 2.15 million extra space to play with for old/replacement level players.

Ceci needs to go.

How hard to we get squeezed now that everyone knows we have to dump him? Oh wait, it's impossible to squeeze another GM in this league. We'll be fine :)

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837549 is a reply to message #837546 ]	Tue, 13 August 2024 10:26

smyth260
Messages: 1046
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

If only Stan Bowman could dump his expensive defenseman to Ken Holland icon_frown

icon_frown

Clean house or bust

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837551 is a reply to message #837520 ]	Tue, 13 August 2024 10:39

Kr55
Messages: 10541
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Seeing some valid criticism of Holloway with these offersheets. That's kind of nuts that he would take ~2M to break his relationship with the org. Even being a second fiddle to Broberg, who is getting the far more lucrative offer, in this attempt to mess the Oilers over.

Bad showing there Dylan. Probably would have got close to that anyways if he just negotiated here, and loads of opportunity to play with Drai.

He was born in Calgary though.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837553 is a reply to message #837551 ]	Tue, 13 August 2024 11:05

Adam
Messages: 7113
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:39

Seeing some valid criticism of Holloway with these offersheets. That's kind of nuts that he would take ~2M to break his relationship with the org. Even being a second fiddle to Broberg, who is getting the far more lucrative offer, in this attempt to mess the Oilers over.

Bad showing there Dylan. Probably would have got close to that anyways if he just negotiated here, and loads of opportunity to play with Drai.

He was born in Calgary though.

I think Holloway probably felt a little abused by the org last year too, similarly to Broberg. We buried him in the minors a couple of times, including the last couple months of the season simply because we'd signed Perry and didn't have the cap room any more.

He did fine back in Bakersfield and was a big part of the playoff run, but the team has really preferred to use aged vets in depth roles and they've done that at the expense of young, cheap talent. It's not surprising really if these guys resent that treatment - especially given that when the chips were down, the team plugged these guys in in place of some of those old folks who kept them out of the lineup.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837556 is a reply to message #837553 ]	Tue, 13 August 2024 13:14

Kr55
Messages: 10541
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 11:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:39

Seeing some valid criticism of Holloway with these offersheets. That's kind of nuts that he would take ~2M to break his relationship with the org. Even being a second fiddle to Broberg, who is getting the far more lucrative offer, in this attempt to mess the Oilers over.

Bad showing there Dylan. Probably would have got close to that anyways if he just negotiated here, and loads of opportunity to play with Drai.

He was born in Calgary though.

I think Holloway probably felt a little abused by the org last year too, similarly to Broberg. We buried him in the minors a couple of times, including the last couple months of the season simply because we'd signed Perry and didn't have the cap room any more.

He did fine back in Bakersfield and was a big part of the playoff run, but the team has really preferred to use aged vets in depth roles and they've done that at the expense of young, cheap talent. It's not surprising really if these guys resent that treatment - especially given that when the chips were down, the team plugged these guys in in place of some of those old folks who kept them out of the lineup.

Yeah, could be. The cost of going with the "overripe" path. Although, neither was a strong pick in the end, and both guys absolutely needed a long development time to have a hope to be passable NHLers. Wonder how hard it is to convince players of that, especially when you took them in the 1st round.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837560 is a reply to message #837556 ]	Tue, 13 August 2024 17:45

Adam
Messages: 7113
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 13:14

Adam wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 11:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:39

Seeing some valid criticism of Holloway with these offersheets. That's kind of nuts that he would take ~2M to break his relationship with the org. Even being a second fiddle to Broberg, who is getting the far more lucrative offer, in this attempt to mess the Oilers over.

Bad showing there Dylan. Probably would have got close to that anyways if he just negotiated here, and loads of opportunity to play with Drai.

He was born in Calgary though.

I think Holloway probably felt a little abused by the org last year too, similarly to Broberg. We buried him in the minors a couple of times, including the last couple months of the season simply because we'd signed Perry and didn't have the cap room any more.

He did fine back in Bakersfield and was a big part of the playoff run, but the team has really preferred to use aged vets in depth roles and they've done that at the expense of young, cheap talent. It's not surprising really if these guys resent that treatment - especially given that when the chips were down, the team plugged these guys in in place of some of those old folks who kept them out of the lineup.

Yeah, could be. The cost of going with the "overripe" path. Although, neither was a strong pick in the end, and both guys absolutely needed a long development time to have a hope to be passable NHLers. Wonder how hard it is to convince players of that, especially when you took them in the 1st round.

I mean, there's certainly a couple of players out there who look like they'd have been better picks. It can be easy to complain about draft mistakes years later when players have developed, but both those picks had detractors immediately, with people pointing out the value of guys left on the board who've proven out in the time since. Holloway had questions about his offensive production at the time of the draft and we've seen some similar concerns over much of his NHL time so far (although he had a great playoffs). Broberg was considered less of a sure thing than a bunch of the forwards available then (Caufield, Zary, Zegras, Boldy) and was potentially a consolation prize, as the Oilers had apparently been targeting Seider who went a couple picks earlier (and who would look great on our blueline now).

To be fair to Holland/Wright & crew, I think those are both NHL players though. Not complete misses, so this isn't Michel Riesen or Alex Mikhnov level reaches. I think a fairly archaic approach to prospect development under Holland hasn't helped us here with any of the young guys. With a top-loaded team spending a ton on the first line players, then you need to get value out of the bottom of your roster. You look at Tampa and Chicago and others, and they play great young players at the bottom of the roster. They usually lose a lot of those guys (generally smart enough to trade them, not lose via RFA offer sheet) but they keep the funnel going that way. They'll have the occasional Corey Perry, but they don't tend to have the whole bottom six as 30 plus guys.

I wish I had a better sense of who these guys are as players, and I think the Oilers development plan has been pretty flawed in not providing the team enough of that outlook.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837563 is a reply to message #837553 ]	Tue, 13 August 2024 22:10

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4321
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Adam wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 10:39

Seeing some valid criticism of Holloway with these offersheets. That's kind of nuts that he would take ~2M to break his relationship with the org. Even being a second fiddle to Broberg, who is getting the far more lucrative offer, in this attempt to mess the Oilers over.

Bad showing there Dylan. Probably would have got close to that anyways if he just negotiated here, and loads of opportunity to play with Drai.

He was born in Calgary though.

I think Holloway probably felt a little abused by the org last year too, similarly to Broberg. We buried him in the minors a couple of times, including the last couple months of the season simply because we'd signed Perry and didn't have the cap room any more.

He did fine back in Bakersfield and was a big part of the playoff run, but the team has really preferred to use aged vets in depth roles and they've done that at the expense of young, cheap talent. It's not surprising really if these guys resent that treatment - especially given that when the chips were down, the team plugged these guys in in place of some of those old folks who kept them out of the lineup.

Broberg maybe.. but Holloway had injurie sin the AHL that held him back.. Broberg might have an argument though..

I don't expect we'll ever have the cap room in teh next few years to screw the Blues in a similar fashion.. I hereby curse their franchise for all time..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837558 is a reply to message #837520 ]	Tue, 13 August 2024 15:15

inverno76
Messages: 2324
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Is that Tyson Barrie’s music playing?

Broberg walks and watch for it.

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837561 is a reply to message #837520 ]	Tue, 13 August 2024 21:50

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4321
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

FK

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837562 is a reply to message #837561 ]	Tue, 13 August 2024 22:06

Kr55
Messages: 10541
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 21:50

FK

https://media1.tenor.com/m/7Syr-HlRBXIAAAAC/thats-true-kramer.gif

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837564 is a reply to message #837520 ]	Tue, 13 August 2024 23:00

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4321
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

What do you do..[ 25 vote(s) ]

1. Match Broberg.. let Holloway walk 3 / 12%
2. Match Holloway.. let Broberg walk 9 / 36%
3. Match Both.. put Kane on LTIR ALL year.. wave a magic wand.. 4 / 16%
4. Let 'em both walk.. and add from somewhere else.. like Savoie takes Holloway's spot 5 / 20%
5. Do any of the above .. swear a lifetime vendetta against Doug Armstrong the St. Louis franchise.. 4 / 16%

The hardest to replace will be Broberg.. he had turned a corner in the playoffs and Paul Coffey had him becoming a top 4 D-man.. If Nurse didn't have a no trade I'd replace him with Broberg.. Holland really botched this up.. signed Nurse to a boat anchor contract and then failed to secure the rights to the Oilers best TWO (2) 1st round draft pick prospects. If Nurse wasn't immovable I'd have shopped him and thrown in draft picks to unload his contract to keep Broberg.

So now we will have potentially lost NHL'ers Desharnais, McLeod, Holloway, Broberg, Foegle .. picked up Skinner, Arviddson.. and a prospect in Savoie.. ?

[Updated on: Tue, 13 August 2024 23:24]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837566 is a reply to message #837564 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 10:59

Adam
Messages: 7113
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 23:00

So now we will have potentially lost NHL'ers Desharnais, McLeod, Holloway, Broberg, Foegle .. picked up Skinner, Arviddson.. and a prospect in Savoie.. ?

I think Roby Jarventie is going to get a look too. I think the Oilers made the deal on Bourgault because they're getting a guy who's closer to the show.

Stecher suddenly looking like a more important re-signing too after this. Wasn't sure whether he's on the roster originally, but now he seems a shoo-in and probably a regular unless the Oilers really want to see a lot of Josh Brown.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837567 is a reply to message #837566 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 11:33

Hibernia
Messages: 93
Registered: October 1998
Location: Sin John's

No Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 14:29

I think Roby Jarventie is going to get a look too. I think the Oilers made the deal on Bourgault because they're getting a guy who's closer to the show.

Stecher suddenly looking like a more important re-signing too after this. Wasn't sure whether he's on the roster originally, but now he seems a shoo-in and probably a regular unless the Oilers really want to see a lot of Josh Brown.

This just got me thinking... what if some of the moves Jackson made in the early days were done in anticipation of losing one or both of these players. It probably wouldn't be a shock to Jackson if either Broberg or Holloway wanted a fresh start and the extra signings may have been insurance against this scenario happening. Stecher can take the 3rd pairing RHD position (Ekholm, Nurse, Kulak, Bouchard, Ceci, Stecher) to start the season. Meanwhile, up front, while Holloway's speed is a loss, the Oilers were actually under .500 with him in the lineup during the regular season last year. Both of these guys could turn out to be worthy of their draft position, but if they just help us re-stock the draft pick cupboard for a few months, it's probably not the end of the world.

What happened to all of my messages? lol (I guess it's been awhile) Twitter: @AitchOil

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837568 is a reply to message #837567 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 11:45

oilfan94
Messages: 389
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA

No Cups

Hibernia wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 13:33

Adam wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 14:29

I think Roby Jarventie is going to get a look too. I think the Oilers made the deal on Bourgault because they're getting a guy who's closer to the show.

Stecher suddenly looking like a more important re-signing too after this. Wasn't sure whether he's on the roster originally, but now he seems a shoo-in and probably a regular unless the Oilers really want to see a lot of Josh Brown.

This just got me thinking... what if some of the moves Jackson made in the early days were done in anticipation of losing one or both of these players. It probably wouldn't be a shock to Jackson if either Broberg or Holloway wanted a fresh start and the extra signings may have been insurance against this scenario happening. Stecher can take the 3rd pairing RHD position (Ekholm, Nurse, Kulak, Bouchard, Ceci, Stecher) to start the season. Meanwhile, up front, while Holloway's speed is a loss, the Oilers were actually under .500 with him in the lineup during the regular season last year. Both of these guys could turn out to be worthy of their draft position, but if they just help us re-stock the draft pick cupboard for a few months, it's probably not the end of the world.

If Jackson was thinking he might lose one or both of them, then I would have expected him to be more proactive on a trade to get better value for them.

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837570 is a reply to message #837568 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 12:05

Hibernia
Messages: 93
Registered: October 1998
Location: Sin John's

No Cups

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 15:15

Hibernia wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 13:33

Adam wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 14:29

I think Roby Jarventie is going to get a look too. I think the Oilers made the deal on Bourgault because they're getting a guy who's closer to the show.

Stecher suddenly looking like a more important re-signing too after this. Wasn't sure whether he's on the roster originally, but now he seems a shoo-in and probably a regular unless the Oilers really want to see a lot of Josh Brown.

This just got me thinking... what if some of the moves Jackson made in the early days were done in anticipation of losing one or both of these players. It probably wouldn't be a shock to Jackson if either Broberg or Holloway wanted a fresh start and the extra signings may have been insurance against this scenario happening. Stecher can take the 3rd pairing RHD position (Ekholm, Nurse, Kulak, Bouchard, Ceci, Stecher) to start the season. Meanwhile, up front, while Holloway's speed is a loss, the Oilers were actually under .500 with him in the lineup during the regular season last year. Both of these guys could turn out to be worthy of their draft position, but if they just help us re-stock the draft pick cupboard for a few months, it's probably not the end of the world.

If Jackson was thinking he might lose one or both of them, then I would have expected him to be more proactive on a trade to get better value for them.

I'm not saying he wanted to lose them. But, he was prepared for this scenario. If you thought your house was going to be damaged by a storm, you don't sell the house. You buy insurance to protect yourself. That said, if he really thought they were going to be offer-sheeted, he could have used one of them as a sweetener on a Ceci-deal to upgrade the 2RD spot.

What happened to all of my messages? lol (I guess it's been awhile) Twitter: @AitchOil

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837571 is a reply to message #837568 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 12:18

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4321
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 10:45

..If Jackson was thinking he might lose one or both of them, then I would have expected him to be more proactive on a trade to get better value for them.

I didn't know much about the offer sheet rules, but the fact you can't match the offer and then trade the player means the team is restricted more than the player in a RFA contract negotiation.. he's effectively a UFA (that btw you can't trade for a year if you match an offer sheet!) and the only real advantage the team that holds the rights has.. is to match the offer sheet..

A player contract that results from matching an offer sheet has more restrictions on the franchise than a regular roster contract .. its almost as bad as a waiver signing..

If you are trying to compete for the Cup and on the margins of cap compliancy.. and you have to worry about wild predatory offers.. how do you manage a roster cap for an entire team if you don't know if some team is going to shoot a wild offer sheet out of no where way above what the market value is for the player.. ? Broberg at $4.5M ?
Going forward I think you'll have to either lock up the RFA player.. years early.. or trade his ass the second he isn't signed before July 1st in order to at least get market value.. even if you have the cap available to match.. you don't want to have a player you can't trade for year.. he effectively is getting a No Trade contract.. and a 2nd for a $4.5M cap hit player is not near equivalent.. none of the draft pick compensations are..

If they don't match, Oilers are losing two high 1st round draft prospects they developed.. for chump change..

[Updated on: Wed, 14 August 2024 12:59]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837579 is a reply to message #837568 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 15:49

Kr55
Messages: 10541
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 11:45

Hibernia wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 13:33

Adam wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 14:29

I think Roby Jarventie is going to get a look too. I think the Oilers made the deal on Bourgault because they're getting a guy who's closer to the show.

Stecher suddenly looking like a more important re-signing too after this. Wasn't sure whether he's on the roster originally, but now he seems a shoo-in and probably a regular unless the Oilers really want to see a lot of Josh Brown.

This just got me thinking... what if some of the moves Jackson made in the early days were done in anticipation of losing one or both of these players. It probably wouldn't be a shock to Jackson if either Broberg or Holloway wanted a fresh start and the extra signings may have been insurance against this scenario happening. Stecher can take the 3rd pairing RHD position (Ekholm, Nurse, Kulak, Bouchard, Ceci, Stecher) to start the season. Meanwhile, up front, while Holloway's speed is a loss, the Oilers were actually under .500 with him in the lineup during the regular season last year. Both of these guys could turn out to be worthy of their draft position, but if they just help us re-stock the draft pick cupboard for a few months, it's probably not the end of the world.

If Jackson was thinking he might lose one or both of them, then I would have expected him to be more proactive on a trade to get better value for them.

If I was the agent for Broberg and Holloway, and had been working on offer sheets since July, I would just have been stringing Jackson along with excuses. Like wanting to wait for the new GM to be hired to negotiate. Maybe Jackson would have felt like something is up, but he has also been busy with the GM hire and figuring out McDrai. Broberg in general may have never had any intention to stay here for any contract that would have been reasonable, and the offersheet prospect is the only reason he didn't ask for a trade.

I imagine Jackson is also not that comfortable with most of the GM role. He happily signed UFA's and some guys that were really excited to stay. Made some prospect trades with extremely willing GM's. He didn't really have to deal with anything difficult as the interim GM.

[Updated on: Wed, 14 August 2024 16:10]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837581 is a reply to message #837579 ]	Thu, 15 August 2024 08:59

Adam
Messages: 7113
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 15:49

If I was the agent for Broberg and Holloway, and had been working on offer sheets since July, I would just have been stringing Jackson along with excuses. Like wanting to wait for the new GM to be hired to negotiate. Maybe Jackson would have felt like something is up, but he has also been busy with the GM hire and figuring out McDrai. Broberg in general may have never had any intention to stay here for any contract that would have been reasonable, and the offersheet prospect is the only reason he didn't ask for a trade.

I imagine Jackson is also not that comfortable with most of the GM role. He happily signed UFA's and some guys that were really excited to stay. Made some prospect trades with extremely willing GM's. He didn't really have to deal with anything difficult as the interim GM.

If you look at the last few summers with guys like McLeod and Yamamoto and even Bouchard coming up for RFA contracts, the Oilers handled them the same way. Waited deep in to the summer, pressured the players by pointing out there was no cap space, so they needed to do cheap bridge deals. The Oilers were really spooked when Draisaitl was coming up on his last RFA deal that someone would throw a big offer sheet, but for guys down the roster, I think they've just assumed they're safe and people won't play that game.

Honestly, it's bonkers that it doesn't happen more when you look at how cheap the acquisition cost is for RFAs and I'm sure the only reasons we don't see more is that teams are A) afraid of retribution and B) feel that it's probably futile if the other team is just going to match anyhow. But considering teams like Tampa have been up against the Cap for ages, it's shocking no one has been messing with their salary grid this way.

EDIT - just having looked at all the other teams at the cap though, none have left any RFAs of any note open...just us. Oops.

[Updated on: Thu, 15 August 2024 09:12]

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837572 is a reply to message #837566 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 12:52

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4321
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 09:59

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 23:00

So now we will have potentially lost NHL'ers Desharnais, McLeod, Holloway, Broberg, Foegle .. picked up Skinner, Arviddson.. and a prospect in Savoie.. ?

I think Roby Jarventie is going to get a look too. I think the Oilers made the deal on Bourgault because they're getting a guy who's closer to the show.

Stecher suddenly looking like a more important re-signing too after this. Wasn't sure whether he's on the roster originally, but now he seems a shoo-in and probably a regular unless the Oilers really want to see a lot of Josh Brown.

Yeah you can add Jarventie, but he's still in the prospect category.. coming back from knee surgery.. he could be better (potentially) than Holloway (bigger anyway) .. but the big loss is Broberg.. he's better than Nurse.. effectively top 4 D.. he could take Nurse's spot as #2 LFD .. if Nurse wasn't there.. but at least #2 RHD.. big hole in the D corp

[Updated on: Wed, 14 August 2024 12:58]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837576 is a reply to message #837572 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 14:16

Adam
Messages: 7113
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 12:52

Adam wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 09:59

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 23:00

So now we will have potentially lost NHL'ers Desharnais, McLeod, Holloway, Broberg, Foegle .. picked up Skinner, Arviddson.. and a prospect in Savoie.. ?

I think Roby Jarventie is going to get a look too. I think the Oilers made the deal on Bourgault because they're getting a guy who's closer to the show.

Stecher suddenly looking like a more important re-signing too after this. Wasn't sure whether he's on the roster originally, but now he seems a shoo-in and probably a regular unless the Oilers really want to see a lot of Josh Brown.

Yeah you can add Jarventie, but he's still in the prospect category.. coming back from knee surgery.. he could be better (potentially) than Holloway (bigger anyway) .. but the big loss is Broberg.. he's better than Nurse.. effectively top 4 D.. he could take Nurse's spot as #2 LFD .. if Nurse wasn't there.. but at least #2 RHD.. big hole in the D corp

Agreed on the hole. Broberg leaves a smoking hole in an already weak area of our team. Ceci & Stecher are neither ideal fits for the 2RD spot.

On the flip side, Broberg plays LD ideally, and he's probably the 3LD if we were to move forward with him on that side. He's more expensive than Kulak and even if he's better, that's a ton of money to pay for that position in the roster - and it's even worse if you're paying your 3LD $9.25MM...

So yes, there's a bigger hole created here where we already had a real area of weakness, but if we were to match, are we making it harder for the team to patch where we really need it on RD?

The more I've thought about this, the more I'm tempted to say we're fine letting him walk. With Holloway, I think it all depends where you have him slotted in the lineup. That's too much for a fourth liner, and pretty expensive for a third liner, but if you think he'll play even half the year in the top six, then it's maybe not awful.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837578 is a reply to message #837576 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 15:45

Kr55
Messages: 10541
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 14:16

Skookum Jim wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 12:52

Adam wrote on Wed, 14 August 2024 09:59

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 13 August 2024 23:00

So now we will have potentially lost NHL'ers Desharnais, McLeod, Holloway, Broberg, Foegle .. picked up Skinner, Arviddson.. and a prospect in Savoie.. ?

I think Roby Jarventie is going to get a look too. I think the Oilers made the deal on Bourgault because they're getting a guy who's closer to the show.

Stecher suddenly looking like a more important re-signing too after this. Wasn't sure whether he's on the roster originally, but now he seems a shoo-in and probably a regular unless the Oilers really want to see a lot of Josh Brown.

Yeah you can add Jarventie, but he's still in the prospect category.. coming back from knee surgery.. he could be better (potentially) than Holloway (bigger anyway) .. but the big loss is Broberg.. he's better than Nurse.. effectively top 4 D.. he could take Nurse's spot as #2 LFD .. if Nurse wasn't there.. but at least #2 RHD.. big hole in the D corp

Agreed on the hole. Broberg leaves a smoking hole in an already weak area of our team. Ceci & Stecher are neither ideal fits for the 2RD spot.

On the flip side, Broberg plays LD ideally, and he's probably the 3LD if we were to move forward with him on that side. He's more expensive than Kulak and even if he's better, that's a ton of money to pay for that position in the roster - and it's even worse if you're paying your 3LD $9.25MM...

So yes, there's a bigger hole created here where we already had a real area of weakness, but if we were to match, are we making it harder for the team to patch where we really need it on RD?

The more I've thought about this, the more I'm tempted to say we're fine letting him walk. With Holloway, I think it all depends where you have him slotted in the lineup. That's too much for a fourth liner, and pretty expensive for a third liner, but if you think he'll play even half the year in the top six, then it's maybe not awful.

Think the catch is that Broberg was very unlikely to last long on 2nd RHD either. A handful of lucky games doesn't cancel out how he has never shown top end awareness at the NHL level. If this org was seriously betting on him being #2RHD, yikes. With Broberg, it probably only takes a few weeks before we are back to Nurse-Ceci, if Kulak still refuses to be Nurse's babysitter. Then you have Kulak-Broberg has a crazy expensive 3rd pair that performs pretty similar to what Kulak-Stecher would.

This D is not fixed, with or without Broberg. Stan's still gotta earn his keep.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837569 is a reply to message #837520 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 12:03

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4321
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

The thing about the offer sheet rules that seem out of synch is that in Broberg's case that a player supposedly worth 5.3 % of a NHL franchise cap is only worth a 2nd round draft pick.. plus the fact you can't match and then trade the player for a year.. so if you don't have the cap room that particular season you can at least get the real market value for the player.. I think the CBA valuation for what a 2nd rounder is worth is out of alignment with the market.. In this case we have two 1st rounders that are only supposedly worth a 2nd and a 3rd round draft pick according to the CBA dollar valuations..

Unfortunately with the pending Draisatl , Bouchard, and McDavid contracts the Oilers will not be in a cap position with sufficient room to return the favour to St. Louis (or any other team) any time soon..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837574 is a reply to message #837520 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 13:06

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4321
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

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BTW.. can anyone verify what the CBA says about draft compensations per offer sheet valuation, and if its based on a percentage of that year's roster cap limit? I assume it is, but haven't seen it stated anywhere.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837575 is a reply to message #837574 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 13:44

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 748
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Here is the 2024 compensation for an offer sheet signed by any of this year's RFA's:

$1,511,701 AAV or less - No compensation
$1,5111,701 to $2,290,457 - 3rd round pick
$2,290,457 to $4,580,917 - 2nd round pick
$4,580,917 to $6,871,374 - 1st and 3rd round picks (this seems like a steep jump up)
$6,871,374 to $9,161,834 - 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks
$9,161,834 to $11,452,294 - Two 1st's, 2nd and 3rd round picks
Above $11,452,294 - Four 1st round picks

Note - Any team trying to sign a player to an offer sheet must use their own draft picks. The club that receives an offer sheet has 7 days to match the offer or accept the draft pick compensation.

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837577 is a reply to message #837520 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 15:03

inverno76
Messages: 2324
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

I kind of wish RDOF was here for this. It’s way too rationale in here right now.

He's gotta be lurking.

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837580 is a reply to message #837520 ]	Wed, 14 August 2024 22:38

NCREDiBLE
Messages: 255
Registered: February 2007
Location: Cold Lake, AB

No Cups

The more I’m thinking on this, the more I’m fine with letting St Louis overpay on both.

Holloway was the pawn in this as they really wanted Broberg.
Let them over pay on both.

Holloway being an Alberta boy, signing to leave a chance of playing with McDavid & Leon for just over a mill more than what he would have had here? See ya.

Broberg wanted a trade request and his agent is one of the shadiest ones out there.
He’s all about the money. Wanting $1.8 mill and has 10 solid playoff games under his belt? I don’t know, I never wanted either player gone but this changes how I feel about them.

Give Savoie, Jarvente and Lavoie all time instead in Holloways spot.
Still move out Ceci, give Stetcher more of a serious look but I’d also really look at bringing back Barrie and or Schultz on 1 year deals at $1Mill each.
Both play right side.
If only taking on one, can use the 2nd & 3rd plus Ceci to make a trade for his replacement.

Then in 2025 off season, absolutely offer sheet Neighbours if we have the correct picks.

[Updated on: Wed, 14 August 2024 22:41]

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837587 is a reply to message #837520 ]	Thu, 15 August 2024 19:44

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4321
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

One of the posters (defmn) on Lowetide had a plausible option for this predicament..

1. Talk to San Jose.. they have 1st right of refusal on the waivers..

2. Ask Greer if he wants Broberg oand Holloway at the St. Louis offer sheet pricing.. and if SJ would want them in return for more than a 2nd and 3rd for both..

3. If yes, you match the offer sheets.. now have control of players.. and waive their asses the start of season..

4. SJ picks them up

5. SJ and Oilers then make a trade.. a SJ 1st rounder for an Oiler "B" prospect or player.. or a high SJ prospect for a low round Oiler pick.. basically higher SJ value .. for lower Oiler value.. something along this line..

.. or make the "trade" first.. then the waiver later.. i.e. the waiver is "future considerations"

A big FU to Armstrong and St. Louis, as well as Holloway/Broberg and their respective agents..

You can't trade a player after matching.. but nothing says you can't waive him..

[Updated on: Thu, 15 August 2024 19:50]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837588 is a reply to message #837587 ]	Thu, 15 August 2024 19:54

nullterm
Messages: 1005
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

Based on comments from Friedman, I’m flipping. Keep Holloway, send Broberg and agent packing on the next flight.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837589 is a reply to message #837588 ]	Thu, 15 August 2024 20:12

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4321
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

nullterm wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 18:54

Based on comments from Friedman, I’m flipping. Keep Holloway, send Broberg and agent packing on the next flight.

what'd Friedman say.. I'm guessing his agent conspired with St. louis and/or were never going to sign in Edm.. thus dragging out negotiations long enough where Oilers was in its weakest cap position and couldn't match?

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837590 is a reply to message #837589 ]	Thu, 15 August 2024 20:24

nullterm
Messages: 1005
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 19:12

nullterm wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 18:54

Based on comments from Friedman, I’m flipping. Keep Holloway, send Broberg and agent packing on the next flight.

what'd Friedman say.. I'm guessing his agent conspired with St. louis and/or were never going to sign in Edm.. thus dragging out negotiations long enough where Oilers was in its weakest cap position and couldn't match?

Essentially Broberg and agent were still demanding trade. And probably dragging things out.

What you suggest would line up.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837591 is a reply to message #837590 ]	Thu, 15 August 2024 20:55

Kr55
Messages: 10541
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

nullterm wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 20:24

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 19:12

nullterm wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 18:54

Based on comments from Friedman, I’m flipping. Keep Holloway, send Broberg and agent packing on the next flight.

what'd Friedman say.. I'm guessing his agent conspired with St. louis and/or were never going to sign in Edm.. thus dragging out negotiations long enough where Oilers was in its weakest cap position and couldn't match?

Essentially Broberg and agent were still demanding trade. And probably dragging things out.

What you suggest would line up.

Heard that he also said that if Holland was GM the offer sheet would not have happened because of Hockey Canada Bro Code or something. Lol. Oh well. There are greater consequences to keeping Holland as GM.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837594 is a reply to message #837591 ]	Fri, 16 August 2024 10:48

Adam
Messages: 7113
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 20:55

nullterm wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 20:24

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 19:12

nullterm wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 18:54

Based on comments from Friedman, I’m flipping. Keep Holloway, send Broberg and agent packing on the next flight.

what'd Friedman say.. I'm guessing his agent conspired with St. louis and/or were never going to sign in Edm.. thus dragging out negotiations long enough where Oilers was in its weakest cap position and couldn't match?

Essentially Broberg and agent were still demanding trade. And probably dragging things out.

What you suggest would line up.

Heard that he also said that if Holland was GM the offer sheet would not have happened because of Hockey Canada Bro Code or something. Lol. Oh well. There are greater consequences to keeping Holland as GM.

Honestly, I don't feel any animosity towards the players for this. They have to take care of themselves. Broberg's been offered probably 3 times what the Oilers were proposing to pay him this year. Who among us would turn down an extra $5-6MM over the next couple of years? It's easy to say, "hey, you're young and you'll have plenty time to make your money!" but the reality is that players' careers are short and fragile. If he blows out a knee or gets a bad concussion, he could be out of the league and what he signs for is all he gets.

He's been frustrated at the team for a while and he doesn't have to sign anything we put in front of him, so I don't think it's stringing along the team really. Especially if he thought there was a market to get him $4.5MM per year (which, of course, there was).

I don't blame his agent either. The player has felt he's NHL ready for some time, and the Oilers buried him in the minors for most of this year still. That flipped in the playoffs and he was playing above a bunch of these guys he'd been stuck behind. If you were a confident young player, that would be frustrating, whether it's the right move for the team or not.

As a free agent, players are free to talk to other teams about signing them. The Oilers knew that was a risk, but they hadn't left themselves cap space and were trying to convince these two to take low dollar deals to kick that problem down the road. Totally reasonable for the team to try, and a tactic they'd used successfully in past summers, but there was always a risk there. Honestly, we're lucky this is happening this year with Broberg and not last year with Bouchard.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837595 is a reply to message #837591 ]	Fri, 16 August 2024 10:51

Adam
Messages: 7113
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 20:55

Heard that he also said that if Holland was GM the offer sheet would not have happened because of Hockey Canada Bro Code or something. Lol. Oh well. There are greater consequences to keeping Holland as GM.

I don't know, bro code didn't stop the other GMs from taking advantage of Holland in a couple of trades, or get Calgary to stand down on the stupid James Neal compensation. I wonder how many (other than obviously the Oilers) really believe it's a tight knit brothership who shouldn't take advantage of one another?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837596 is a reply to message #837595 ]	Fri, 16 August 2024 10:53

Kr55
Messages: 10541
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 10:51

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 20:55

Heard that he also said that if Holland was GM the offer sheet would not have happened because of Hockey Canada Bro Code or something. Lol. Oh well. There are greater consequences to keeping Holland as GM.

I don't know, bro code didn't stop the other GMs from taking advantage of Holland in a couple of trades, or get Calgary to stand down on the stupid James Neal compensation. I wonder how many (other than obviously the Oilers) really believe it's a tight knit brothership who shouldn't take advantage of one another?

Hockey Canada Broship is at the highest tier though. I actually do believe that Armstrong wouldn't do that to Holland, but that is kinda goofy. These guys are paid by their owners to make the best possible team.

How it likely goes down if Holland was still here is Broberg asks for a trade, and Holland, the good bro that knows his bro doug needs a LHD, trades him to St Louis for a 2nd round pick :)

[Updated on: Fri, 16 August 2024 10:54]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837597 is a reply to message #837596 ]	Fri, 16 August 2024 11:10

Adam
Messages: 7113
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 10:53

Adam wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 10:51

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 20:55

Heard that he also said that if Holland was GM the offer sheet would not have happened because of Hockey Canada Bro Code or something. Lol. Oh well. There are greater consequences to keeping Holland as GM.

I don't know, bro code didn't stop the other GMs from taking advantage of Holland in a couple of trades, or get Calgary to stand down on the stupid James Neal compensation. I wonder how many (other than obviously the Oilers) really believe it's a tight knit brothership who shouldn't take advantage of one another?

Hockey Canada Broship is at the highest tier though. I actually do believe that Armstrong wouldn't do that to Holland, but that is kinda goofy. These guys are paid by their owners to make the best possible team.

How it likely goes down if Holland was still here is Broberg asks for a trade, and Holland, the good bro that knows his bro doug needs a LHD, trades him to St Louis for a 2nd round pick :)

Bowman has been around these circles all his life though. Hardly someone who isn't part of the bros.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837598 is a reply to message #837597 ]	Fri, 16 August 2024 11:42

Kr55
Messages: 10541
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 11:10

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 10:53

Adam wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 10:51

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 20:55

Heard that he also said that if Holland was GM the offer sheet would not have happened because of Hockey Canada Bro Code or something. Lol. Oh well. There are greater consequences to keeping Holland as GM.

I don't know, bro code didn't stop the other GMs from taking advantage of Holland in a couple of trades, or get Calgary to stand down on the stupid James Neal compensation. I wonder how many (other than obviously the Oilers) really believe it's a tight knit brothership who shouldn't take advantage of one another?

Hockey Canada Broship is at the highest tier though. I actually do believe that Armstrong wouldn't do that to Holland, but that is kinda goofy. These guys are paid by their owners to make the best possible team.

How it likely goes down if Holland was still here is Broberg asks for a trade, and Holland, the good bro that knows his bro doug needs a LHD, trades him to St Louis for a 2nd round pick :)

Bowman has been around these circles all his life though. Hardly someone who isn't part of the bros.

I think you're underestimating the Hockey Canada Broship. The source of 3 of our last 4 GM's, all hired and sold to Katz by fellow Hockey Canada Bros, and the source of the best burger a hockey arena has ever served. Doubt Bowman has even a tiny fraction of the relationship with Armstrong that Holland has.

[Updated on: Fri, 16 August 2024 11:45]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837600 is a reply to message #837598 ]	Fri, 16 August 2024 12:49

inverno76
Messages: 2324
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 11:42

Adam wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 11:10

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 10:53

Adam wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 10:51

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 20:55

Heard that he also said that if Holland was GM the offer sheet would not have happened because of Hockey Canada Bro Code or something. Lol. Oh well. There are greater consequences to keeping Holland as GM.

I don't know, bro code didn't stop the other GMs from taking advantage of Holland in a couple of trades, or get Calgary to stand down on the stupid James Neal compensation. I wonder how many (other than obviously the Oilers) really believe it's a tight knit brothership who shouldn't take advantage of one another?

Hockey Canada Broship is at the highest tier though. I actually do believe that Armstrong wouldn't do that to Holland, but that is kinda goofy. These guys are paid by their owners to make the best possible team.

How it likely goes down if Holland was still here is Broberg asks for a trade, and Holland, the good bro that knows his bro doug needs a LHD, trades him to St Louis for a 2nd round pick :)

Bowman has been around these circles all his life though. Hardly someone who isn't part of the bros.

I think you're underestimating the Hockey Canada Broship. The source of 3 of our last 4 GM's, all hired and sold to Katz by fellow Hockey Canada Bros, and the source of the best burger a hockey arena has ever served. Doubt Bowman has even a tiny fraction of the relationship with Armstrong that Holland has.

This does have a tinge of Bro Code to it, but not directed so much at Bowman, but rather the new kid on the block Jeff Jackson.

That interview with Holland and JJ after the Knoblauch hire was so cringeworthy that it sticks in my brain. Holland saying he's talked to the core group before firing Woody, and then Jackson over speaking him and contradicting his statement felt like two managers who were out of alignment with each other.

Add in Chiarelli's dismissal from the previous regime and how ugly it went adds more fuel for the Blues to get nasty with Edmonton. It also would not be a surprise if we found out Holland was pushed to the backburners all of last season and he confided to his buddies who were GM's of other teams (Armstrong) and this was a big FU to JJ that you need to respect the old boys.

I'm normally not a conspiracy guy, but I have lots of experience working in a dysfunctional organization and weird things happen when people are not treated right.

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837605 is a reply to message #837600 ]	Fri, 16 August 2024 14:36

Kr55
Messages: 10541
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 12:49

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 11:42

Adam wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 11:10

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 10:53

Adam wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 10:51

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 20:55

Heard that he also said that if Holland was GM the offer sheet would not have happened because of Hockey Canada Bro Code or something. Lol. Oh well. There are greater consequences to keeping Holland as GM.

I don't know, bro code didn't stop the other GMs from taking advantage of Holland in a couple of trades, or get Calgary to stand down on the stupid James Neal compensation. I wonder how many (other than obviously the Oilers) really believe it's a tight knit brothership who shouldn't take advantage of one another?

Hockey Canada Broship is at the highest tier though. I actually do believe that Armstrong wouldn't do that to Holland, but that is kinda goofy. These guys are paid by their owners to make the best possible team.

How it likely goes down if Holland was still here is Broberg asks for a trade, and Holland, the good bro that knows his bro doug needs a LHD, trades him to St Louis for a 2nd round pick :)

Bowman has been around these circles all his life though. Hardly someone who isn't part of the bros.

I think you're underestimating the Hockey Canada Broship. The source of 3 of our last 4 GM's, all hired and sold to Katz by fellow Hockey Canada Bros, and the source of the best burger a hockey arena has ever served. Doubt Bowman has even a tiny fraction of the relationship with Armstrong that Holland has.

This does have a tinge of Bro Code to it, but not directed so much at Bowman, but rather the new kid on the block Jeff Jackson.

That interview with Holland and JJ after the Knoblauch hire was so cringeworthy that it sticks in my brain. Holland saying he's talked to the core group before firing Woody, and then Jackson over speaking him and contradicting his statement felt like two managers who were out of alignment with each other.

Add in Chiarelli's dismissal from the previous regime and how ugly it went adds more fuel for the Blues to get nasty with Edmonton. It also would not be a surprise if we found out Holland was pushed to the backburners all of last season and he confided to his buddies who were GM's of other teams (Armstrong) and this was a big FU to JJ that you need to respect the old boys.

I'm normally not a conspiracy guy, but I have lots of experience working in a dysfunctional organization and weird things happen when people are not treated right.

Is there a better display of the Hockey Canada Bro Code than Armstrong giving Chia a job after what he did here? haha

McDavid saved the day hopefully and finally shut the door on that gang. Getting his former agent running our org to give us the best hope to keep him for an extra 8 years was what the doctor ordered. Hopefully the Stan Bowman side effects are harmless.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837592 is a reply to message #837587 ]	Fri, 16 August 2024 10:32

Jakey
Messages: 40
Registered: November 2007
Location: Leduc

No Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 19:44

One of the posters (defmn) on Lowetide had a plausible option for this predicament..

1. Talk to San Jose.. they have 1st right of refusal on the waivers..

2. Ask Greer if he wants Broberg oand Holloway at the St. Louis offer sheet pricing.. and if SJ would want them in return for more than a 2nd and 3rd for both..

3. If yes, you match the offer sheets.. now have control of players.. and waive their asses the start of season..

4. SJ picks them up

5. SJ and Oilers then make a trade.. a SJ 1st rounder for an Oiler "B" prospect or player.. or a high SJ prospect for a low round Oiler pick.. basically higher SJ value .. for lower Oiler value.. something along this line..

.. or make the "trade" first.. then the waiver later.. i.e. the waiver is "future considerations"

A big FU to Armstrong and St. Louis, as well as Holloway/Broberg and their respective agents..

You can't trade a player after matching.. but nothing says you can't waive him..

I was thinking of this type of scenario as well. I emailed Puck Pedia to look into waivers rules to see if Sharks make the first claim then do they drop in the waiver claim positioning after (not sure on that) as well as if the Oilers match the 2 offer sheets, do waiver rules allow them be put on waivers or have to wait for a year(like trade rule)......that I don't know. If they can go on waivers then this is a scenario I would definately push hard at with SJ to see what their package might be for this to work out better for the Oilers. Grier could be a real linchpin in this whole thing if the waivers idea can be done after offer sheets?

Gonna be interesting to see what plays out for sure!

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837593 is a reply to message #837592 ]	Fri, 16 August 2024 10:43

oilfan94
Messages: 389
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA

No Cups

Jakey wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 12:32

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 15 August 2024 19:44

One of the posters (defmn) on Lowetide had a plausible option for this predicament..

1. Talk to San Jose.. they have 1st right of refusal on the waivers..

2. Ask Greer if he wants Broberg oand Holloway at the St. Louis offer sheet pricing.. and if SJ would want them in return for more than a 2nd and 3rd for both..

3. If yes, you match the offer sheets.. now have control of players.. and waive their asses the start of season..

4. SJ picks them up

5. SJ and Oilers then make a trade.. a SJ 1st rounder for an Oiler "B" prospect or player.. or a high SJ prospect for a low round Oiler pick.. basically higher SJ value .. for lower Oiler value.. something along this line..

.. or make the "trade" first.. then the waiver later.. i.e. the waiver is "future considerations"

A big FU to Armstrong and St. Louis, as well as Holloway/Broberg and their respective agents..

You can't trade a player after matching.. but nothing says you can't waive him..

I was thinking of this type of scenario as well. I emailed Puck Pedia to look into waivers rules to see if Sharks make the first claim then do they drop in the waiver claim positioning after (not sure on that) as well as if the Oilers match the 2 offer sheets, do waiver rules allow them be put on waivers or have to wait for a year(like trade rule)......that I don't know. If they can go on waivers then this is a scenario I would definately push hard at with SJ to see what their package might be for this to work out better for the Oilers. Grier could be a real linchpin in this whole thing if the waivers idea can be done after offer sheets?

Gonna be interesting to see what plays out for sure!

I don't think San Jose could take both, but if the Oilers match both offer sheets and only drop Broberg to San Jose then that isn't the end of the world.

Also, if Broberg's agent was positioning for this to happen then I am totally fine with dropping Broberg.

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Re: Blues offer sheet Broberg and Holloway [message #837601 is a reply to message #837593 ]	Fri, 16 August 2024 12:53

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4321
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

oilfan94 wrote on Fri, 16 August 2024 09:43

I don't think San Jose could take both, but if the Oilers match both offer sheets and only drop Broberg to San Jose then that isn't the end of the world.

According to this website the question was asked if you went to the bottom of the order once you selected a player off waivers.. the guys at ProHockey Rumors said no.. you keep the same order for all subsequent waiver players until teh order changes due to standings.. so in San Joses case they will be selecting first until the Nov. 1 regulars season standings are calculated..
https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2024/08/salary-cap-transacti ons-faqs-waivers-retention-buyouts-more.html

Apparently there is nothing in the CBA about changing the waiver priority once you selected.. the waiver priority order remains until the standings change..

Quote:

MixtureBill: For waiver order, is it always based on reverse standings order, or are teams moved to the “end of the line” after making a claim? Would the last place team have priority on all waiver claims until the order is changed at the given date during the season, or once making a claim do they no longer have top priority?

Nope. If a team remains in 32nd place for eternity, they have first dibs on players on waivers for eternity.

That given date you mention is Nov. 1, by the way. So, for any players who get placed on waivers between now and November, the Sharks will still have priority, then the Blackhawks, then the Ducks, and so on.

Waiver priority was also discussed here.. same conclusion.. priority doesn't change once a team claims..

https://canucksarmy.com/news/canucks-army-gdt-8-canucks-vs-o ilers

This is teh only section talking about waiver priority.. nothing regarding changing it once making a claim..

https://thenationnetwork.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/images/af/20/article_af202143-dacf-4170-9d20-173ad9962fa0.png

[Updated on: Fri, 16 August 2024 13:02]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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