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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837051 is a reply to message #837050 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 08:00

tardigrade81
Messages: 2262
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

Woke up. Hurt like most of you today. I just hope next year we start the season better. That horrific start, if we win 4 games in there we have home ice and at the end of the day this series came down to home ice. It was an extremely entertaining series, but it is what it is. Oilers battled all season, and all playoffs. Leaves such a nasty taste in my mouth we couldn’t get that win. It’s so friggin hard making the cup final. Next year we likely play Colorado or Vegas in the playoffs. This year we got to avoid them…. Doubt that happens next year. Hats off to Florida, but it’s painful

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837052 is a reply to message #837051 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 08:18

smyth260
Messages: 1080
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

That’s my reflection as well.

We can talk about 1 shot away or 1 goal away all we want. But it’s a lot easier to control your destiny in 4 straight series if you got home ice along the way. We’ve seen a lot of great teams have home ice, win it in 4-5-6. If you leave it to game 7s, you are leaving it to a potential coin flip. We lost the coin flip last night. We lost it in 2006.

We need to start winning the conference in-season. Never really been close to that in the McDavid era. Never won a division.

The media will spin it as Holland got the team to 1 game away from a Stanley Cup, just like Kevin Lowe, but the Oilers could have had a lot more to control their destiny over his 5 year run as GM. We have had a hand tied behind our back. There are lessons to be learned here. Not from the players, who took us as far as they could, but management could have made it easier, could have had this opportunity sooner, and could have made these opportunities easier.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2024 08:25]

Clean house or bust

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837053 is a reply to message #837052 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 08:23

Leia
Messages: 410
Registered: May 2003
Location: England

No Cups

Just rewatched McDavid doing the captain's thing and waiting for his team mates to leave the ice, I get the feeling from watching that, that we won't see Perry in the NHL next year. I think that's him done, so we'll need to find another vet who can go up and down the lines.

Take me home, country road
to the place where I belong
to Alberta, to see the Oilers
take me home, country road

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837055 is a reply to message #837053 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 08:51

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Pretty disappointed. I thought both teams were extremely even. I thought the Oilers had the special teams edge and had the trump card in McD.

For the game, they got the goaltending they needed. Skinner made some big saves when called upon, only gave up 2 and the 2 he let in, I don't fault him on what so ever.

They got the defensive effort. Your PK was unreal. Was there the odd mistake, puck bobble, bad read. Of course. Hockey is a game of mistakes. If no team ever made a mistake, you'd never get goals. They give up 7 goals in the last 4 games, that's less than 2 goals per game. That's more than good enough to win.

They got the depth scoring. Janmark was unreal scored the only goal in a 2-1 game.

It came down to the big boys unable to get 1. To win, you need your best players to be the best. I am not faulting them. It just didn't happen.

In the days coming days, I would like to hear who's hurt.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837065 is a reply to message #837055 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 10:02

Suomalainen
Messages: 900
Registered: May 2002
Location: Boulder, CO

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 08:51

.

In the days coming days, I would like to hear who's hurt.

If y'all hear anything, please share here, as I'll probably continue to avoid any hockey/sports media for the next few weeks, maybe until football season ramps up.

97.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837054 is a reply to message #837052 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 08:38

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 08:18

That’s my reflection as well.

We can talk about 1 shot away or 1 goal away all we want. But it’s a lot easier to control your destiny in 4 straight series if you got home ice along the way. We’ve seen a lot of great teams have home ice, win it in 4-5-6. If you leave it to game 7s, you are leaving it to a potential coin flip. We lost the coin flip last night. We lost it in 2006.

We need to start winning the conference in-season. Never really been close to that in the McDavid era. Never won a division.

The media will spin it as Holland got the team to 1 game away from a Stanley Cup, just like Kevin Lowe, but the Oilers could have had a lot more to control their destiny over his 5 year run as GM. We have had a hand tied behind our back. There are lessons to be learned here. Not from the players, who took us as far as they could, but management could have made it easier, could have had this opportunity sooner, and could have made these opportunities easier.

This is why it's so important to get a real GM now. The timing of Holland leaving is as good as we could hope for.

No doubt Holland would see this playoffs like last year. Thinking that the experiences gained just means automatic win next playoffs, with the extra excuse that Kane was hurt, so he could just sit on his hands again and maybe add a 7th D or bottom 6 grinder and he could head off to relax the rest of the summer.

We need real fixes to this roster. We have to make a team that can win the division, ideally the conference and be close or win a presidents trophy. We need to have the luxury in the season to get key players healthy if we need to sit them out for a while. We can't be lazy and not use LTIR to get more upgrades at the deadline if the opportunity presents itself again, like we had on a silver platter this year. We simply need a competent GM with a real plan aside from just hoping McDavid and Drai will get better every season.

Holland got the most he could ever hope to out of McDavid this year, and Bouch could have been a Smythe candidate in many past seasons. This is as far as we could lazily ride this core. It's probably unlikely that McDavid reproduces this playoffs again, and we need to be ready for that. To get the production he got with 1 useless 5v5 player (Nuge) on his wing almost every game was absolutely insane. He needs more help. Drai too. The D failed us in the finals as well with some absolutely horrid plays in the first 3 games. The same holes we've all been talking about caught up in the finals, in the canucks series that turned it into a 7 game injury fest, in the regular season to cost us the chance at home ice.

We absolutely need major fixes to this lineup still. Not a GM that thinks a Connor Brown will fix everything, and then pats himself on the back when the player finally does something starting in the 2nd round, where the team only was because someone else swooped in and fixed the coaching for him.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2024 08:41]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837056 is a reply to message #837054 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 09:05

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 11:38

We absolutely need major fixes to this lineup still

Not trying to be pedantic, but I don't know if we necessarily need MAJOR fixes to the roster, but there is certainly some work to be done.

Skinner will still be here. Most of the top forwards and D will still be here. Broberg and Holloway will need new deals. I would have no problem bringing back all of Janmark, Henrique, Foegele, and Brown, but only at the right price - guessing a couple of those guys may feel they have earned themselves a raise we just might not be able to afford.

#1) Absolutely need an upgrade on Ceci.
#2) If Nurse wasn't severely hampered by something, see how much it would cost to get a bottom feeder to take him.
#3) As much as I am against buyouts normally, I think Campbell is a no brainer. Unless someone will accept a late pick to take him off our hands. Save almost $4M next year, then $2.7M, and $2.4M. Unless of course we is injured long term. Or has an equipment allergy or something else. He is unllkely to get another big deal in the NHL. Maybe the extra almost $5M he would get to not be bought out makes him consider playing ball?

LOL - so I guess there is major work to do :)

IMO, the most important has to be a big minute munching top 4 RHD. No idea who that is, but we can't go back into next year's playoffs with Ceci and Nurse.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837057 is a reply to message #837056 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 09:13

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 09:05

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 11:38

We absolutely need major fixes to this lineup still

Not trying to be pedantic, but I don't know if we necessarily need MAJOR fixes to the roster, but there is certainly some work to be done.

Skinner will still be here. Most of the top forwards and D will still be here. Broberg and Holloway will need new deals. I would have no problem bringing back all of Janmark, Henrique, Foegele, and Brown, but only at the right price - guessing a couple of those guys may feel they have earned themselves a raise we just might not be able to afford.

#1) Absolutely need an upgrade on Ceci.
#2) If Nurse wasn't severely hampered by something, see how much it would cost to get a bottom feeder to take him.
#3) As much as I am against buyouts normally, I think Campbell is a no brainer. Unless someone will accept a late pick to take him off our hands. Save almost $4M next year, then $2.7M, and $2.4M. Unless of course we is injured long term. Or has an equipment allergy or something else. He is unllkely to get another big deal in the NHL. Maybe the extra almost $5M he would get to not be bought out makes him consider playing ball?

LOL - so I guess there is major work to do :)

IMO, the most important has to be a big minute munching top 4 RHD. No idea who that is, but we can't go back into next year's playoffs with Ceci and Nurse.

Think we need a pretty good top 6 winger too. One that can actually carry the puck and make plays. There is just too much focus on McDavid, and when the rule book is thrown out, him being allowed to be double/triple teamed and tackled needs to be countered by someone else being able to hold onto a puck and make plays. We have too many 1 and done hot potato hockey wingers. Hyman can be good on the boards, but doesn't have the vision to carry the puck and make plays. Nuge can't do a thing 5v5 with the puck aside from dump and chase and get open to shoot. Kane can't pass worth a damn. Holloway is another guy that plays like he's on rails, I don't think he has ever been considered a playmaker. Need some more creativity in the top 6. McDavid and Drai can score goals just as well as their wingers, but they usually have to do everything solo to score.

RHD for sure, Knob was waving the white flag during the regular season about how crappy his RHD were. And Holland did nothing. Absolute miracle we got past Dallas playing Kulak on his off side. Broberg had to carry the 2nd pair in the finals. Pretty unacceptable when the need was so obvious to even casual fans.

Maybe there are not crazy hard to fix, but if it was Holland still, it would be monumentally difficult because he probably wouldn't even try. Would need something to just fall on his lap, like maybe another player caught up in some questionable activities that makes him a pariah to the rest of the league and we could get him cheap. That's the kind of opportunity that needs to fall on Holland's lap for him to get an upgrade.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837059 is a reply to message #837057 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 09:32

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I know it will be difficult for some to take but Nurse isn't going anywhere. If you want to piss off McD and Leon, you trade one of their best friends. Those guys are in eachothers wedding parties. Nurse is seen as part of the leadership. McD and Leon go to bat for him. I know he makes too much money but it would be a mistake to trade him because it would upset the team big time.

What they need to do is get him a partner that compliments him. He is a good dman when he is on and keeping it simple but clearly he struggles when he's got a partner that doesn't compliment him and he feels he has to cover for.

When it comes to Ceci. They need an improvement but is the improvement Broberg for the top 4? Ideally you have a left - righty but Broberg played the right side pretty much all in the AHL and he played the right side in the freaking finals and was pretty good. Sure he had some young guy yips but he's got 81 career NHl games under his belt and 20 total playoff games, 10 this year. He was GOOD, arguably the Oilers 3rd best dman and he will only get better.

So when it comes to Ceci maybe the route is to just get rid of him for a cheaper 3rd pairing right shot. Either use a chunk of his money to keep Desharnais or get someone else.

I think a decision needs to be made with McLeod. We saw what can happen and how critical a good 3rd line center is. Henrique stepped into that role and the line of Janmark - Henrique - Brown was probably their best line in the playoffs and it wasn't close in my opinion. He's making 2.1 mill next season and he's not worth that based on how he played. He had ZERO's across the board except for a -2 in the finals and he was going up against mostly 4th liners. That's a problem. His 2.1 mill probably covers off 3/4 of what Janmark and Brown would make.

I saw Broberg setup up huge, coming into a pretty difficult situation and run with it. I would say a top 4 dman has a way harder job than a 4th liner. He will be better next year, guaranteed. Bouch was already a good player going into this season but I saw Bouch take an unreal step this year to establish himself as an elite dman. I don't know if Bouch can get to another level because his level is pretty high now but bare min he will be at the same level next year was is fantastic. I saw Holloway, who still has some to go but he took a big step going from a probably 3rd liner to a this guy looks to be top 6. He will be better next year. What step will McLeod take? The step he needed to take was the same as last year and the year before. Be more engaged.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837061 is a reply to message #837059 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 09:42

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

It won’t be the friendship that keeps Nurse in Edmonton. Eberle was just as beloved and it’s a business. Nurse will be back because he has NMC and an immovable contract.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837062 is a reply to message #837061 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 09:50

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 09:42

It won’t be the friendship that keeps Nurse in Edmonton. Eberle was just as beloved and it’s a business. Nurse will be back because he has NMC and an immovable contract.

True enough. I 100% get he makes too much money, I agree he does but I really think fans dismiss his role on the team and how that would upset the locker room in a negative way. The 2 main guys see him as a key piece of the team. They talk about him frequently.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837063 is a reply to message #837061 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 09:59

kungpaobenji27
Messages: 340
Registered: August 2003
Location: Irving, Texas

No Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:42

It won’t be the friendship that keeps Nurse in Edmonton. Eberle was just as beloved and it’s a business. Nurse will be back because he has NMC and an immovable contract.

The prospective exit strategies with Nurse are:
1 - trading him to a bottom feeder desperate to reach the cap floor
2 - said bottom feeder retains some money while trading him to a contender asap or after some seasons rehabbing his game.
3 - hoping he can rehab his game in Edmonton with Broberg playing on his off side while increasing his value only to trade him later out of necessity.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837067 is a reply to message #837063 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 10:38

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 09:59

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:42

It won’t be the friendship that keeps Nurse in Edmonton. Eberle was just as beloved and it’s a business. Nurse will be back because he has NMC and an immovable contract.

The prospective exit strategies with Nurse are:
1 - trading him to a bottom feeder desperate to reach the cap floor
2 - said bottom feeder retains some money while trading him to a contender asap or after some seasons rehabbing his game.
3 - hoping he can rehab his game in Edmonton with Broberg playing on his off side while increasing his value only to trade him later out of necessity.

How do you get him to waive his NMC? He successfully negotiated a great deal that gave him full control of his prime years in this career, he’s playing with his buddies and he’s on a championship caliber team.

It’s time to work around his contract and just accept it’s there until he wants out.

Also it’s buyout proof.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837068 is a reply to message #837067 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 10:55

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:38

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 09:59

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:42

It won’t be the friendship that keeps Nurse in Edmonton. Eberle was just as beloved and it’s a business. Nurse will be back because he has NMC and an immovable contract.

The prospective exit strategies with Nurse are:
1 - trading him to a bottom feeder desperate to reach the cap floor
2 - said bottom feeder retains some money while trading him to a contender asap or after some seasons rehabbing his game.
3 - hoping he can rehab his game in Edmonton with Broberg playing on his off side while increasing his value only to trade him later out of necessity.

How do you get him to waive his NMC? He successfully negotiated a great deal that gave him full control of his prime years in this career, he’s playing with his buddies and he’s on a championship caliber team.

It’s time to work around his contract and just accept it’s there until he wants out.

Also it’s buyout proof.

Treliving probably would love to add a big tough D with a great sports family pedigree! Bonus, nurse keeps the leads from ever being a real contender.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837069 is a reply to message #837067 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 11:04

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:38

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 09:59

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:42

It won’t be the friendship that keeps Nurse in Edmonton. Eberle was just as beloved and it’s a business. Nurse will be back because he has NMC and an immovable contract.

The prospective exit strategies with Nurse are:
1 - trading him to a bottom feeder desperate to reach the cap floor
2 - said bottom feeder retains some money while trading him to a contender asap or after some seasons rehabbing his game.
3 - hoping he can rehab his game in Edmonton with Broberg playing on his off side while increasing his value only to trade him later out of necessity.

It’s time to work around his contract and just accept it’s there until he wants out.

Exactly my point. Fans need to forget about the contract and get off his case about it. Carving him up in the media day after day doesn't do anything to make him play better. If anything, it probably makes it worse.

Go find him a partner (maybe it's Broberg) who compliments him, create a solid pairing and worry about the cap hit of the pairing and the overall results of that pairing vs the individual player cap hit. If the cap hit of the pairing is around 13 mill, and they give you good top 4 mins, what difference does the split make?

Just my opinion but I think some Oilers fans put way too much emphasis on optics. I think Pesce is probably the best free agent dman. Given he is right handed and how brutal the market is, I could see him getting north of 6 all day. If Nurse was paid 7.25 mill and then they went out and signed Pesce for 7 mill and you had a 14.25 mill pairing. I doubt people would bat an eye and would probably say that's a good pairing.

As an example. Broberg is up for a deal. He's barely played so what he makes on his next deal won't be much. His cap hit was 874K. So pretending you can get him signed for a couple of seasons at 2 mill max (I think it would be less). But if the combined cap hit of the Nurse paring is 11.25 mil and that pairing gives you good top 4 mins. At the end of the day, who cares about the split. Yes individually he makes too much but worry about the cost of the pairing and get him a partner that improves the pairing but offsets his cost.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2024 11:13]

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837070 is a reply to message #837069 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 11:29

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 14:04

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:38

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 09:59

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:42

It won’t be the friendship that keeps Nurse in Edmonton. Eberle was just as beloved and it’s a business. Nurse will be back because he has NMC and an immovable contract.

The prospective exit strategies with Nurse are:
1 - trading him to a bottom feeder desperate to reach the cap floor
2 - said bottom feeder retains some money while trading him to a contender asap or after some seasons rehabbing his game.
3 - hoping he can rehab his game in Edmonton with Broberg playing on his off side while increasing his value only to trade him later out of necessity.

It’s time to work around his contract and just accept it’s there until he wants out.

Exactly my point. Fans need to forget about the contract and get off his case about it. Carving him up in the media day after day doesn't do anything to make him play better. If anything, it probably makes it worse.

Go find him a partner (maybe it's Broberg) who compliments him, create a solid pairing and worry about the cap hit of the pairing and the overall results of that pairing vs the individual player cap hit. If the cap hit of the pairing is around 13 mill, and they give you good top 4 mins, what difference does the split make?

Just my opinion but I think some Oilers fans put way too much emphasis on optics. I think Pesce is probably the best free agent dman. Given he is right handed and how brutal the market is, I could see him getting north of 6 all day. If Nurse was paid 7.25 mill and then they went out and signed Pesce for 7 mill and you had a 14.25 mill pairing. I doubt people would bat an eye and would probably say that's a good pairing.

As an example. Broberg is up for a deal. He's barely played so what he makes on his next deal won't be much. His cap hit was 874K. So pretending you can get him signed for a couple of seasons at 2 mill max (I think it would be less). But if the combined cap hit of the Nurse paring is 11.25 mil and that pairing gives you good top 4 mins. At the end of the day, who cares about the split. Yes individually he makes too much but worry about the cost of the pairing and get him a partner that improves the pairing but offsets his cost.

Cap hit aside, Nurse was brutal for most of the playoffs. The only other guy close was Ceci. Together they were abysmal. Let's never have them together again.

And as much as some fans like to ignore how much a player makes when making a case for said player, in a cap world it cannot be ignored. It's a crazy contract not just because of the cap hit, but the way it's structured - full NMC for another few years, and 100% buyout proof. Well done Nurse's agent.

For his sake, I hope we was injured and it contributed to his less than stellar play.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837071 is a reply to message #837070 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 11:39

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Mike wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 11:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 14:04

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:38

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 09:59

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:42

It won’t be the friendship that keeps Nurse in Edmonton. Eberle was just as beloved and it’s a business. Nurse will be back because he has NMC and an immovable contract.

The prospective exit strategies with Nurse are:
1 - trading him to a bottom feeder desperate to reach the cap floor
2 - said bottom feeder retains some money while trading him to a contender asap or after some seasons rehabbing his game.
3 - hoping he can rehab his game in Edmonton with Broberg playing on his off side while increasing his value only to trade him later out of necessity.

It’s time to work around his contract and just accept it’s there until he wants out.

Exactly my point. Fans need to forget about the contract and get off his case about it. Carving him up in the media day after day doesn't do anything to make him play better. If anything, it probably makes it worse.

Go find him a partner (maybe it's Broberg) who compliments him, create a solid pairing and worry about the cap hit of the pairing and the overall results of that pairing vs the individual player cap hit. If the cap hit of the pairing is around 13 mill, and they give you good top 4 mins, what difference does the split make?

Just my opinion but I think some Oilers fans put way too much emphasis on optics. I think Pesce is probably the best free agent dman. Given he is right handed and how brutal the market is, I could see him getting north of 6 all day. If Nurse was paid 7.25 mill and then they went out and signed Pesce for 7 mill and you had a 14.25 mill pairing. I doubt people would bat an eye and would probably say that's a good pairing.

As an example. Broberg is up for a deal. He's barely played so what he makes on his next deal won't be much. His cap hit was 874K. So pretending you can get him signed for a couple of seasons at 2 mill max (I think it would be less). But if the combined cap hit of the Nurse paring is 11.25 mil and that pairing gives you good top 4 mins. At the end of the day, who cares about the split. Yes individually he makes too much but worry about the cost of the pairing and get him a partner that improves the pairing but offsets his cost.

Cap hit aside, Nurse was brutal for most of the playoffs. The only other guy close was Ceci. Together they were abysmal. Let's never have them together again.

And as much as some fans like to ignore how much a player makes when making a case for said player, in a cap world it cannot be ignored. It's a crazy contract not just because of the cap hit, but the way it's structured - full NMC for another few years, and 100% buyout proof. Well done Nurse's agent.

For his sake, I hope we was injured and it contributed to his less than stellar play.

I agree. He didn't have a good playoff and his contract isn't very good. He's overpaid. To get rid of that contract will be very difficult.

To do it, he would have to waive his NMC which I doubt he would to go to a bottom feeder team that could afford him. Put yourself in his shoes. He gets paid his money whether he is here or somewhere else. He's got the support of the best player in the world plus arguably another top 5 player saying to everyone he's great. He's not an awful player, he just makes a little too much money. So if you were him, why would you waive your NMC to go play for a crappy team when you can stay here, play with your besties and be on a good team?

If I was him, I sure wouldn't. I get being called out isn't fun but who cares. I got McD telling everyone how great I am. In the mind of a player, who knows better, the best player player on the planet or loud mouthed fans? I am not taking a shot at anyone, but if I was in Nurses shoes, would I give a crap about what the average fan who maybe at best plays beer league, says about my game? Hell no.

So the question I have if what does fans constantly bringing up his contract over and over again do for his game? Fans screaming about him saying he's overpaid and sucks. That does what to improve him?

So they have to find a work around. Get a guy that isn't Ceci he can play with who compliments the holes in his game.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837073 is a reply to message #837071 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 11:48

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 14:39

I agree. He didn't have a good playoff and his contract isn't very good. He's overpaid. To get rid of that contract will be very difficult.

And I agree with you - more than difficult, I would say impossible to move. He sucked pretty bad. Almost every time there was a fire drill in our zone, I didn't need to look long to find 25 or 5.

The only hope I have like I said is that he was really hurting. Because we have seen him be good/very good over the last few years. Really good the year he earned that crazy deal and even the next 2. So there is some hope. And at only 29 I doubt he's fallen off the proverbial cliff yet.

Really - I don't think anything could bolster this team's fortunes more than Nurse getting a partner that complements his game and returning to the form that saw him get that contract. Because he ain't going anywhere (and if ever he does play like a $9.25M guy, well we sure as hell won't be in rush to move him then)

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837072 is a reply to message #837070 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 11:40

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 11:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 14:04

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:38

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 09:59

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:42

It won’t be the friendship that keeps Nurse in Edmonton. Eberle was just as beloved and it’s a business. Nurse will be back because he has NMC and an immovable contract.

The prospective exit strategies with Nurse are:
1 - trading him to a bottom feeder desperate to reach the cap floor
2 - said bottom feeder retains some money while trading him to a contender asap or after some seasons rehabbing his game.
3 - hoping he can rehab his game in Edmonton with Broberg playing on his off side while increasing his value only to trade him later out of necessity.

It’s time to work around his contract and just accept it’s there until he wants out.

Exactly my point. Fans need to forget about the contract and get off his case about it. Carving him up in the media day after day doesn't do anything to make him play better. If anything, it probably makes it worse.

Go find him a partner (maybe it's Broberg) who compliments him, create a solid pairing and worry about the cap hit of the pairing and the overall results of that pairing vs the individual player cap hit. If the cap hit of the pairing is around 13 mill, and they give you good top 4 mins, what difference does the split make?

Just my opinion but I think some Oilers fans put way too much emphasis on optics. I think Pesce is probably the best free agent dman. Given he is right handed and how brutal the market is, I could see him getting north of 6 all day. If Nurse was paid 7.25 mill and then they went out and signed Pesce for 7 mill and you had a 14.25 mill pairing. I doubt people would bat an eye and would probably say that's a good pairing.

As an example. Broberg is up for a deal. He's barely played so what he makes on his next deal won't be much. His cap hit was 874K. So pretending you can get him signed for a couple of seasons at 2 mill max (I think it would be less). But if the combined cap hit of the Nurse paring is 11.25 mil and that pairing gives you good top 4 mins. At the end of the day, who cares about the split. Yes individually he makes too much but worry about the cost of the pairing and get him a partner that improves the pairing but offsets his cost.

Cap hit aside, Nurse was brutal for most of the playoffs. The only other guy close was Ceci. Together they were abysmal. Let's never have them together again.

And as much as some fans like to ignore how much a player makes when making a case for said player, in a cap world it cannot be ignored. It's a crazy contract not just because of the cap hit, but the way it's structured - full NMC for another few years, and 100% buyout proof. Well done Nurse's agent.

For his sake, I hope we was injured and it contributed to his less than stellar play.

Not sure why people feel the need to give a pass to management and players clearly handicapping the team. Is it a way of coping? Mentally preparing for the same issues to end the next season early?

Nurse and his contract are a challenge, but that's why GMs make the big bucks. To fix teams and give the best chance to win. 9.25M could be far better spent rather than carrying around a guy that the coach needs to jump through hoops to turn into less of a liability, and/or the GM needs to bend over backwards to find the right linemate to make them less of a liability. That's not what you should have to do with a 9M player.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837077 is a reply to message #837072 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 13:34

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 11:40

Mike wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 11:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 14:04

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:38

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 09:59

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:42

It won’t be the friendship that keeps Nurse in Edmonton. Eberle was just as beloved and it’s a business. Nurse will be back because he has NMC and an immovable contract.

The prospective exit strategies with Nurse are:
1 - trading him to a bottom feeder desperate to reach the cap floor
2 - said bottom feeder retains some money while trading him to a contender asap or after some seasons rehabbing his game.
3 - hoping he can rehab his game in Edmonton with Broberg playing on his off side while increasing his value only to trade him later out of necessity.

It’s time to work around his contract and just accept it’s there until he wants out.

Exactly my point. Fans need to forget about the contract and get off his case about it. Carving him up in the media day after day doesn't do anything to make him play better. If anything, it probably makes it worse.

Go find him a partner (maybe it's Broberg) who compliments him, create a solid pairing and worry about the cap hit of the pairing and the overall results of that pairing vs the individual player cap hit. If the cap hit of the pairing is around 13 mill, and they give you good top 4 mins, what difference does the split make?

Just my opinion but I think some Oilers fans put way too much emphasis on optics. I think Pesce is probably the best free agent dman. Given he is right handed and how brutal the market is, I could see him getting north of 6 all day. If Nurse was paid 7.25 mill and then they went out and signed Pesce for 7 mill and you had a 14.25 mill pairing. I doubt people would bat an eye and would probably say that's a good pairing.

As an example. Broberg is up for a deal. He's barely played so what he makes on his next deal won't be much. His cap hit was 874K. So pretending you can get him signed for a couple of seasons at 2 mill max (I think it would be less). But if the combined cap hit of the Nurse paring is 11.25 mil and that pairing gives you good top 4 mins. At the end of the day, who cares about the split. Yes individually he makes too much but worry about the cost of the pairing and get him a partner that improves the pairing but offsets his cost.

Cap hit aside, Nurse was brutal for most of the playoffs. The only other guy close was Ceci. Together they were abysmal. Let's never have them together again.

And as much as some fans like to ignore how much a player makes when making a case for said player, in a cap world it cannot be ignored. It's a crazy contract not just because of the cap hit, but the way it's structured - full NMC for another few years, and 100% buyout proof. Well done Nurse's agent.

For his sake, I hope we was injured and it contributed to his less than stellar play.

Not sure why people feel the need to give a pass to management and players clearly handicapping the team. Is it a way of coping? Mentally preparing for the same issues to end the next season early?

Nurse and his contract are a challenge, but that's why GMs make the big bucks. To fix teams and give the best chance to win. 9.25M could be far better spent rather than carrying around a guy that the coach needs to jump through hoops to turn into less of a liability, and/or the GM needs to bend over backwards to find the right linemate to make them less of a liability. That's not what you should have to do with a 9M player.

It's got nothing to do with using the tired argument management sucks or commenting on the salary of management. It's got everything to do with fans not making decisions based on blind emotion and being logical and using their head.

Nurse makes too much. Is he a good dman? Yes but is he a 9.25 mill dman? No he isn't. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. His cap hit is too much for the level of play he can give when he is at his best. No debate what so ever. He makes too much.

He also has a NMC. He plays on a team with 2 of his best friends, those 2 friends are the best player on the planet and one of the 5 best on the planet. So as a hockey player and competitor, he knows as long as he plays with those 2, he will be on a good team and he gets to do it with his buddies. So that has a tremendous draw for him. So to get him to waive his no move will be extremely difficult and the list of teams he would accept a trade too is probably extremely short.

So if a person takes out the emotion and thinks logically, the likelihood he's not going to waive his no move, leave his best friends and go to a crap team that has the cap space is extremely low if not zero.

So to get Nurse to waive, you are probably picking from a handful of good teams that have limited cap space. So to make a trade you are eating a decent chunk of his salary and you are getting nothing back. Probably in the range of 2-3 mill. Then you have to replace him with a dman who's at min on par with Nurse. So we are talking a 6-7 mill dman. So when you factor in the retention, plus the replacement cost, you are paying probably the same money to get the same level of play as you get from Nurse. So the only thing you get is a different name on the jersey to complain about. The likelihood you are getting a replacement who is cheaper and better than Nurse it slim to none. If he existed, then the team trading for Nurse would just go get him and save themselves money.

So if a person takes out the emotion and uses their head, rather than ranting, trading Nurse regardless of management sucking or how much the GM makes, is extremely unrealistic and probably won'y make you any better both in performance on the ice and cap hit wise. So the best course of action is to find a partner who compliments Nurse to maximize what you get from him. Then focus on the cost of the pairing instead of complaining about the individual players contract.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837078 is a reply to message #837077 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 14:47

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 13:34

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 11:40

Mike wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 11:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 14:04

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:38

kungpaobenji27 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 09:59

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 10:42

It won’t be the friendship that keeps Nurse in Edmonton. Eberle was just as beloved and it’s a business. Nurse will be back because he has NMC and an immovable contract.

The prospective exit strategies with Nurse are:
1 - trading him to a bottom feeder desperate to reach the cap floor
2 - said bottom feeder retains some money while trading him to a contender asap or after some seasons rehabbing his game.
3 - hoping he can rehab his game in Edmonton with Broberg playing on his off side while increasing his value only to trade him later out of necessity.

It’s time to work around his contract and just accept it’s there until he wants out.

Exactly my point. Fans need to forget about the contract and get off his case about it. Carving him up in the media day after day doesn't do anything to make him play better. If anything, it probably makes it worse.

Go find him a partner (maybe it's Broberg) who compliments him, create a solid pairing and worry about the cap hit of the pairing and the overall results of that pairing vs the individual player cap hit. If the cap hit of the pairing is around 13 mill, and they give you good top 4 mins, what difference does the split make?

Just my opinion but I think some Oilers fans put way too much emphasis on optics. I think Pesce is probably the best free agent dman. Given he is right handed and how brutal the market is, I could see him getting north of 6 all day. If Nurse was paid 7.25 mill and then they went out and signed Pesce for 7 mill and you had a 14.25 mill pairing. I doubt people would bat an eye and would probably say that's a good pairing.

As an example. Broberg is up for a deal. He's barely played so what he makes on his next deal won't be much. His cap hit was 874K. So pretending you can get him signed for a couple of seasons at 2 mill max (I think it would be less). But if the combined cap hit of the Nurse paring is 11.25 mil and that pairing gives you good top 4 mins. At the end of the day, who cares about the split. Yes individually he makes too much but worry about the cost of the pairing and get him a partner that improves the pairing but offsets his cost.

Cap hit aside, Nurse was brutal for most of the playoffs. The only other guy close was Ceci. Together they were abysmal. Let's never have them together again.

And as much as some fans like to ignore how much a player makes when making a case for said player, in a cap world it cannot be ignored. It's a crazy contract not just because of the cap hit, but the way it's structured - full NMC for another few years, and 100% buyout proof. Well done Nurse's agent.

For his sake, I hope we was injured and it contributed to his less than stellar play.

Not sure why people feel the need to give a pass to management and players clearly handicapping the team. Is it a way of coping? Mentally preparing for the same issues to end the next season early?

Nurse and his contract are a challenge, but that's why GMs make the big bucks. To fix teams and give the best chance to win. 9.25M could be far better spent rather than carrying around a guy that the coach needs to jump through hoops to turn into less of a liability, and/or the GM needs to bend over backwards to find the right linemate to make them less of a liability. That's not what you should have to do with a 9M player.

It's got nothing to do with using the tired argument management sucks or commenting on the salary of management. It's got everything to do with fans not making decisions based on blind emotion and being logical and using their head.

Nurse makes too much. Is he a good dman? Yes but is he a 9.25 mill dman? No he isn't. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. His cap hit is too much for the level of play he can give when he is at his best. No debate what so ever. He makes too much.

He also has a NMC. He plays on a team with 2 of his best friends, those 2 friends are the best player on the planet and one of the 5 best on the planet. So as a hockey player and competitor, he knows as long as he plays with those 2, he will be on a good team and he gets to do it with his buddies. So that has a tremendous draw for him. So to get him to waive his no move will be extremely difficult and the list of teams he would accept a trade too is probably extremely short.

So if a person takes out the emotion and thinks logically, the likelihood he's not going to waive his no move, leave his best friends and go to a crap team that has the cap space is extremely low if not zero.

So to get Nurse to waive, you are probably picking from a handful of good teams that have limited cap space. So to make a trade you are eating a decent chunk of his salary and you are getting nothing back. Probably in the range of 2-3 mill. Then you have to replace him with a dman who's at min on par with Nurse. So we are talking a 6-7 mill dman. So when you factor in the retention, plus the replacement cost, you are paying probably the same money to get the same level of play as you get from Nurse. So the only thing you get is a different name on the jersey to complain about. The likelihood you are getting a replacement who is cheaper and better than Nurse it slim to none. If he existed, then the team trading for Nurse would just go get him and save themselves money.

So if a person takes out the emotion and uses their head, rather than ranting, trading Nurse regardless of management sucking or how much the GM makes, is extremely unrealistic and probably won'y make you any better both in performance on the ice and cap hit wise. So the best course of action is to find a partner who compliments Nurse to maximize what you get from him. Then focus on the cost of the pairing instead of complaining about the individual players contract.

Dude, you are pure emotion and management apologizing for years now. Non-stop cope and asking people to just hat tip the management bumbling and blame guys like McLeod and Bouch, somehow always in line with the Spector narrative. My comments have been pretty consistent for over a decade now, and this team keeps getting slapped in the face by the same mistakes. Good you acknowledge at least some bad mistakes Holland made, but none of our exchanges actually matter in the end, the critiques that come true, or the cope and apologizing. We continue to waste the career of a generational player.

Who knows if we are really stuck with Nurse. You seem very insistent that it's impossible to move him, I disagree. I think a manager that is truly serious about winning would make it happen. A new GM is allowed to come in and fix mistakes of the past and explain clearly to the players why it needs to be done. There are loads of stats and video to back up such a decision, and if McDavid and Drai really want to win, they can handle it. Stop apologizing in advance for inaction by management as we waste McDavid's career. Trying to find players to babysit Nurse is a waste of time and money and a massive handicap for this team going forward.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2024 14:52]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837081 is a reply to message #837078 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 15:12

Rutuu
Messages: 144
Registered: March 2011
Location: Brisbane

No Cups

Lived in Edmonton during the '06 run. The feeling is the same. I thought we had it, even against all odds, just like in '06. This was the 2nd year of our 3 most likely years to win the Cup.

In '06 everything went right that year, and I feel the same this season. Our guys are relatively cheap compared to production, and they're prime aged. LA was the best opponent to get, Vancouver had their top scorer and goalie hurt, Vegas and Colorado were out, we made the final and we were healthy with Bouch and Hyman having everything go in. It was Stoll, Pisani, and Pronger all over again destroying the careers of Manny Legace, and Toskala, before we folded Anaheim.

That run was beautiful, but looking back it solidified MacT and KLowe in our leadership, as they were likely both fired that season without the run, instead of extended. Without their incompetence and arrogance, we don't get McDavid though (we were trying to win in 2015 and still finished last...ha). So I'm torn.

Anyway I still remember where I was the day Pronger's trade request was leaked. Whitecourt Macs. Ugh. That started the unravelling that started our decade of darkness, which only turned because of a few lottery balls.

I look at what happens with Drai as a very serious dark cloud forming again. On the bright side, we do have the right management team if our stars pull the plug to tank.

Man I wish Bouch's shot went in.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837082 is a reply to message #837081 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 15:24

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Rutuu wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 15:12

Lived in Edmonton during the '06 run. The feeling is the same. I thought we had it, even against all odds, just like in '06. This was the 2nd year of our 3 most likely years to win the Cup.

In '06 everything went right that year, and I feel the same this season. Our guys are relatively cheap compared to production, and they're prime aged. LA was the best opponent to get, Vancouver had their top scorer and goalie hurt, Vegas and Colorado were out, we made the final and we were healthy with Bouch and Hyman having everything go in. It was Stoll, Pisani, and Pronger all over again destroying the careers of Manny Legace, and Toskala, before we folded Anaheim.

That run was beautiful, but looking back it solidified MacT and KLowe in our leadership, as they were likely both fired that season without the run, instead of extended. Without their incompetence and arrogance, we don't get McDavid though (we were trying to win in 2015 and still finished last...ha). So I'm torn.

Anyway I still remember where I was the day Pronger's trade request was leaked. Whitecourt Macs. Ugh. That started the unravelling that started our decade of darkness, which only turned because of a few lottery balls.

I look at what happens with Drai as a very serious dark cloud forming again. On the bright side, we do have the right management team if our stars pull the plug to tank.

Man I wish Bouch's shot went in.

I think Drai went on the record (well, various media leaks of his discussion with the org) already saying he wants to stick around for the long haul. The question is if we can get any kind of discount, maybe McDavid and Drai both sign similar deals, we'll have to see.

They beat good teams too. Very good teams. Canucks still rode the PDO magic right to the end. Dallas was an excellent team that dispached of the last 2 cup winners, and they really were not that hurt against us. We countered their game plan very well. Need luck in the closer, but it what it is. We outplayed florida 2 of the first 3 games, but broken down in key moments and could not bury loads of good chances we had. Carrying a weak D group and not finishing got us that 0-3 hole.

Big learnings from this run. No letting off the gas which lead to all kinds of injuries vs the Canucks. I hope they learned the penalty of being too fancy or scared of a goalie like they seemed to be against Bobo until stuff finally went in in game 3. Just generally all the learning of dealing with pressure deeper in playoffs. The old cliches, but it played out for Florida last night. The silver lining of this run is that these guys have to believe now that they could do it if they got another chance.

We absolutely cannot take playoff experience pushing players to another level for granted though, like Ken Holland would. We need to fix this roster so we can have a great regular season and make sure that game 7 if it comes again is at home. Fix the issues with the team that existed clear as day to everyone watching in the last 2 playoff runs.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2024 15:32]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837084 is a reply to message #837078 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 15:54

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

This is a complete mismanagement issue, but aside from setting him up in a scandal or doing some Russian mafia tactics it’s an impossible contract for any GM to move. It’s literally completely up to Nurse. It’s a bulletproof deal. Unless you have 6 infinite gems kicking around no manager out there can force a deal on a full NMC and the buyout costs more than the actual cap hit if he plays.

It’s a crazy deal and it’s all on Chiarelli and Holland. From the bridge deals to the 8 year contract. Time heals all wounds. 5 more years to be exact. In the meantime they need to hire competent people in management, and so far Jackson nailed the right coach (no way KH gets credit for that). Let’s hope he gets the GM right too.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837085 is a reply to message #837084 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 16:05

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 15:54

This is a complete mismanagement issue, but aside from setting him up in a scandal or doing some Russian mafia tactics it’s an impossible contract for any GM to move. It’s literally completely up to Nurse. It’s a bulletproof deal. Unless you have 6 infinite gems kicking around no manager out there can force a deal on a full NMC and the buyout costs more than the actual cap hit if he plays.

It’s a crazy deal and it’s all on Chiarelli and Holland. From the bridge deals to the 8 year contract. Time heals all wounds. 5 more years to be exact. In the meantime they need to hire competent people in management, and so far Jackson nailed the right coach (no way KH gets credit for that). Let’s hope he gets the GM right too.

10 team list his last 3 years :)

It's not unprecedented for a player to waive their NMC or give a list a teams he would waive for. Darnell knows he has a massive microscope on him in Edmonton now and likely will never live up to his contract. As his speed declines his ability to keep up with his purely reactive style of defending keeps getting harder and harder. Hope the org and GM have a hard discussion with him. And if 3 teams wanted PLD, there is definitely still demand out there for Nurse with GM's that love a good pedigree.

Know it's some hopium on my part, but it would be an insanely helpful way to get on the path to fixing this team.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2024 16:08]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837087 is a reply to message #837085 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 16:27

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 16:05

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 15:54

This is a complete mismanagement issue, but aside from setting him up in a scandal or doing some Russian mafia tactics it’s an impossible contract for any GM to move. It’s literally completely up to Nurse. It’s a bulletproof deal. Unless you have 6 infinite gems kicking around no manager out there can force a deal on a full NMC and the buyout costs more than the actual cap hit if he plays.

It’s a crazy deal and it’s all on Chiarelli and Holland. From the bridge deals to the 8 year contract. Time heals all wounds. 5 more years to be exact. In the meantime they need to hire competent people in management, and so far Jackson nailed the right coach (no way KH gets credit for that). Let’s hope he gets the GM right too.

10 team list his last 3 years :)

It's not unprecedented for a player to waive their NMC or give a list a teams he would waive for. Darnell knows he has a massive microscope on him in Edmonton now and likely will never live up to his contract. As his speed declines his ability to keep up with his purely reactive style of defending keeps getting harder and harder. Hope the org and GM have a hard discussion with him. And if 3 teams wanted PLD, there is definitely still demand out there for Nurse with GM's that love a good pedigree.

Know it's some hopium on my part, but it would be an insanely helpful way to get on the path to fixing this team.

There's a possibility there. He got a lot of grief and as great as it is in Edmonton when things are going well, it can be a tire fire if it's going poorly. (Actually even when going well - some of the fan videos the last month with people going up and hugging players and sticking camera phones in their faces are ridiculously cringy). If it was a good landing spot, then I think he might agree to go - although the question is what is the cost and if it doesn't make that unpalatable.

I think it's worth exploring, but I'd be looking at moving on from Ceci, Campbell, Kane first and foremost and then coming back only if that makes sense.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837095 is a reply to message #837087 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 19:28

nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 15:27

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 16:05

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 15:54

This is a complete mismanagement issue, but aside from setting him up in a scandal or doing some Russian mafia tactics it’s an impossible contract for any GM to move. It’s literally completely up to Nurse. It’s a bulletproof deal. Unless you have 6 infinite gems kicking around no manager out there can force a deal on a full NMC and the buyout costs more than the actual cap hit if he plays.

It’s a crazy deal and it’s all on Chiarelli and Holland. From the bridge deals to the 8 year contract. Time heals all wounds. 5 more years to be exact. In the meantime they need to hire competent people in management, and so far Jackson nailed the right coach (no way KH gets credit for that). Let’s hope he gets the GM right too.

10 team list his last 3 years :)

It's not unprecedented for a player to waive their NMC or give a list a teams he would waive for. Darnell knows he has a massive microscope on him in Edmonton now and likely will never live up to his contract. As his speed declines his ability to keep up with his purely reactive style of defending keeps getting harder and harder. Hope the org and GM have a hard discussion with him. And if 3 teams wanted PLD, there is definitely still demand out there for Nurse with GM's that love a good pedigree.

Know it's some hopium on my part, but it would be an insanely helpful way to get on the path to fixing this team.

There's a possibility there. He got a lot of grief and as great as it is in Edmonton when things are going well, it can be a tire fire if it's going poorly. (Actually even when going well - some of the fan videos the last month with people going up and hugging players and sticking camera phones in their faces are ridiculously cringy). If it was a good landing spot, then I think he might agree to go - although the question is what is the cost and if it doesn't make that unpalatable.

I think it's worth exploring, but I'd be looking at moving on from Ceci, Campbell, Kane first and foremost and then coming back only if that makes sense.

Edmonton is also especially rough on Dmen over the years, even guys that can hold their weight on other teams.

I was disappointed to see Nurse’s decision making not improving. D take longer to mature as they wise up to the decisions they need to make given the speed of the opposition. And not seen that from Nurse.

He’d probably do just fine in a market where he won’t be under a microscope still relying on his athleticism and speed to make up for lack of complete awareness.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837060 is a reply to message #836988 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 09:39

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Back to reality. What a fun, and mentally exhausting ride. I cannot imagine how those players feel. Daughter graduates high school tomorrow so my priorities are focused elsewhere and distracts from the disappointment.

Back to the Sears Christmas Wish Book. A short off season with lots to do. New GM. Players in. Players out. A Leon negotiation.

I’m expecting the plane to land and the news being shot out of a fire hose.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837074 is a reply to message #836988 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 12:11

Rocksteady
Messages: 527
Registered: March 2007

No Cups

I'm reading a lot of emotion in some of these posts, lots of anger on what could have been, lots of anger over reasons why the team couldn't push the last 20. I've seen remarks about blame and major fixes, mostly just trying to mend a broken heart, that's all of us.

It is 2006, 18 years ago, my first run to the cup as an actual Oilers fan watching the team, being in the building, and enjoying the fans. 2024, 18 years later the hurt is the same because the ride felt the same, the Oilers behind in the count they battle back just to make us believe and cannot get the job done.

Gut - PUNCH.

The Oilers will have several new things and I think Jeff Jackson is decisive enough to hire the right GM. He found Knoblauch out of seemingly thin air who made a few crucial calls that swung the series and even the trail to the finals. I bet his next hire may be the same. Well I hope.

It's going to be tough to get back to the show, hopefully it won't take another 18 years.

I'm getting too old for this stuff.

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837075 is a reply to message #837074 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 12:29

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 12:11

I'm reading a lot of emotion in some of these posts, lots of anger on what could have been, lots of anger over reasons why the team couldn't push the last 20. I've seen remarks about blame and major fixes, mostly just trying to mend a broken heart, that's all of us.

It is 2006, 18 years ago, my first run to the cup as an actual Oilers fan watching the team, being in the building, and enjoying the fans. 2024, 18 years later the hurt is the same because the ride felt the same, the Oilers behind in the count they battle back just to make us believe and cannot get the job done.

Gut - PUNCH.

The Oilers will have several new things and I think Jeff Jackson is decisive enough to hire the right GM. He found Knoblauch out of seemingly thin air who made a few crucial calls that swung the series and even the trail to the finals. I bet his next hire may be the same. Well I hope.

It's going to be tough to get back to the show, hopefully it won't take another 18 years.

I'm getting too old for this stuff.

The GM hire is everything, absolutely.

I think the big dif between 2006 and now is that every single player, coach and management honestly did deserve that cup. Lowe made some huge acquisitions and did some good work in the no cap era to set that team up. The coaches got the absolute most out of those players, fully embracing the underdog mentality. The players all brought it all playoffs, and we absolutely would have won if Roli didn't get injured. That ending hurt a lot. The hockey gods kicked that team in the sack and honestly robbed the ending of an amazing story.

Slightly different this year. The players, so many injuries to key guys, they played their butts off. Honestly think almost every player did the best they could do. Some guys the play doesn't match the salary, but whatever, I can't question the effort, these guys all wanted it badly.

Coaches, amazing, exceeded all expectations. Great adjustments all playoffs, insane PKing that no one expected. Powerplay great until Drai could no longer skate or shoot and Hyman was not at all himself around the net either after the 2nd round. Still all these guys working hard, the coaches doing everything you hope they could.

Management, garbage. Holland really deserved nothing. 1 good trade, 1 good UFA signing in 5 years. Couldn't even bring himself to do what Tampa and Vegas did with Kane and get us another 5M player, plus get Kane healed. Needed Jackson to save his last year with a forced coach change.

We got the best playoff performance by a forward in 3 decades and just a little cherry on top, the best offensive performance by a D for 3 decades too, and it wasn't enough. 2 weak D pairs handicapped us through the entire playoffs. Top 6 winger juggling all playoffs making everything harder than it needed to be. Big issues were ignored for years, shortsighted cap decisions kept the team constantly constrained.

We came SO CLOSE to overcoming bad management with some generational performances, but it still got us in the end. That hurts, but at least it's a lot more fair that we did it to ourselves than the crazy bad luck of Roli's injury.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2024 12:35]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837076 is a reply to message #837074 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 12:37

kungpaobenji27
Messages: 340
Registered: August 2003
Location: Irving, Texas

No Cups

Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 25 June 2024 13:11

I'm reading a lot of emotion in some of these posts, lots of anger on what could have been, lots of anger over reasons why the team couldn't push the last 20. I've seen remarks about blame and major fixes, mostly just trying to mend a broken heart, that's all of us.

It is 2006, 18 years ago, my first run to the cup as an actual Oilers fan watching the team, being in the building, and enjoying the fans. 2024, 18 years later the hurt is the same because the ride felt the same, the Oilers behind in the count they battle back just to make us believe and cannot get the job done.

Gut - PUNCH.

The Oilers will have several new things and I think Jeff Jackson is decisive enough to hire the right GM. He found Knoblauch out of seemingly thin air who made a few crucial calls that swung the series and even the trail to the finals. I bet his next hire may be the same. Well I hope.

It's going to be tough to get back to the show, hopefully it won't take another 18 years.

I'm getting too old for this stuff.

Lot of emotion yes....but when it came down to it...given the crappy ice, injuries, whatever....Oilers had their chances in games 1, 2 and 7 while not burying them. Not taking anything away from Bob but all those PP opportunities in the first two games? Wasted. Blame the crappy slush ice & all but the Oilers made those key adjustments on a similar playing surface in Dallas yet couldn't do it in the next round.

As for the next GM hire, pretty sure JJ's phone is ringing non-stop (or will be upon landing back in Edmonton). I see the situation as JJ taking over the GM position on a 4-6 week interim basis getting past the draft before finding a suitable & hopefully the BEST candidate for this role.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837096 is a reply to message #836988 ]	Tue, 25 June 2024 22:23

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Known injuries so far

Connor McDavid - Abdominal Surgery (likely an issue from before playoffs started)
Leon Draisaitl - Broken Rib (Canucks series), Broken Finger (think also Canucks series)
Evander Kane - Sports Hernia (from the start of the season, mystery forever why it wasn't dealt with)
Adam Henrique - High Ankle Sprain (early in playoffs, played through it)

[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2024 22:27]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837097 is a reply to message #837096 ]	Wed, 26 June 2024 07:17

tardigrade81
Messages: 2262
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 26 June 2024 05:23

Known injuries so far

Connor McDavid - Abdominal Surgery (likely an issue from before playoffs started)
Leon Draisaitl - Broken Rib (Canucks series), Broken Finger (think also Canucks series)
Evander Kane - Sports Hernia (from the start of the season, mystery forever why it wasn't dealt with)
Adam Henrique - High Ankle Sprain (early in playoffs, played through it)

Crazy…. And yet still took Florida to game 7….. pretty impressive if you think about it to be honest. Considering everyone says if we have injuries we won’t go far

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837118 is a reply to message #837097 ]	Wed, 26 June 2024 16:58

halfafrog
Messages: 63
Registered: March 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

No Cups

If on day 1 of the season you knew they would lose in game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals 2-1 would you be happy they got that far?

I think so.

It was a successful year. This isn't the 2006 Oilers. This is a team that could be back many times the next 5 years. It's more like the 1983 Oilers who lost 4 games to 0 to the NYI Islanders and then won 4 of the next 5.

Even the cats lost last year won this one.

This bodes well.

So this is what hope feels like?

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837121 is a reply to message #837118 ]	Wed, 26 June 2024 17:11

nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

halfafrog wrote on Wed, 26 June 2024 15:58

If on day 1 of the season you knew they would lose in game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals 2-1 would you be happy they got that far?

I think so.

It was a successful year. This isn't the 2006 Oilers. This is a team that could be back many times the next 5 years. It's more like the 1983 Oilers who lost 4 games to 0 to the NYI Islanders and then won 4 of the next 5.

Even the cats lost last year won this one.

This bodes well.

I’m still pissed. One goal away from glory. And we missed it. And we let that puke Tkachuk win it all.

I know the big picture is still something to be proud of… but this was their moment to take and they pissed it away.

(raw unfiltered thoughts)

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837208 is a reply to message #837121 ]	Sat, 29 June 2024 15:07

halfafrog
Messages: 63
Registered: March 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

No Cups

Pretty sure even Brady is Tkachuk's favorite kid

So this is what hope feels like?

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837212 is a reply to message #837121 ]	Sat, 29 June 2024 19:13

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

nullterm wrote on Wed, 26 June 2024 16:11

I’m still pissed. One goal away from glory. And we missed it. And we let that puke Tkachuk win it all.

I know the big picture is still something to be proud of… but this was their moment to take and they pissed it away.

(raw unfiltered thoughts)

🎯💯

icon_nod

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Florida (Game #7) [message #837218 is a reply to message #837212 ]	Sun, 30 June 2024 13:46

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Skookum Jim wrote on Sat, 29 June 2024 19:13

nullterm wrote on Wed, 26 June 2024 16:11

I’m still pissed. One goal away from glory. And we missed it. And we let that puke Tkachuk win it all.

I know the big picture is still something to be proud of… but this was their moment to take and they pissed it away.

(raw unfiltered thoughts)

🎯💯

icon_nod

I think the feelings are mutual with Tkachuk. Just today in their rainy parade he said that he hears it's warm and sunny in Edmonton "but they don't have the Cup."

https://media1.tenor.com/m/GnMZ61ItPasAAAAC/regina-george-mean-girls.gif

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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