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"There's no greater springboard to development than failure." - Craig MacTavish, April 13/15.

5-14-6-1

"Sabres think the suck is their ally? They merely adopted the suck. The Oilers were born in it...molded by it."

97.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Take me home, country road
to the place where I belong
to Alberta, to see the Oilers
take me home, country road

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Take me home, country road
to the place where I belong
to Alberta, to see the Oilers
take me home, country road

[Updated on: Sun, 09 June 2024 10:08]

I feel like I've seen this exact same sequence for a goal against 2 dozen times in the last year. Maybe 2 dozen is actually a low count.



Travis Dakin @TravisDakin
Watch how many times teams exploit that pairing. It's a set play. Dump it into Ceci's corner and watch Nurse mentally malfunction. Avs did it. Vegas did it. They aren't learning. Go back to the pairings from game 4, 5 and 6. It's ok to admit you f'd up.






I think it's very clear that Ceci is targetted. He lost a crazy amount of puck battles last night on the boards, maybe 90%+ of them. Many just totally clean letting Florida guys just take it and pass directly to a teammate.

Nurse, you just need to get him puck watching, and he can turn into a floating pylon. Not even a real pylon on the ice that can block a pass, a floating one that you can just pass right through if you choose.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 09 June 2024 09:25

I feel like I've seen this exact same sequence for a goal against 2 dozen times in the last year. Maybe 2 dozen is actually a low count. Travis Dakin @TravisDakin Watch how many times teams exploit that pairing. It's a set play. Dump it into Ceci's corner and watch Nurse mentally malfunction. Avs did it. Vegas did it. They aren't learning. Go back to the pairings from game 4, 5 and 6. It's ok to admit you f'd up. I think it's very clear that Ceci is targetted. He lost a crazy amount of puck battles last night on the boards, maybe 90%+ of them. Many just totally clean letting Florida guys just take it and pass directly to a teammate. Nurse, you just need to get him puck watching, and he can turn into a floating pylon. Not even a real pylon on the ice that can block a pass, a floating one that you can just pass right through if you choose.

🎯

It was like dejavu.. .. Nurse facing guy behind the net.. puck goes through him.. to the wide open man in front of the net.

You used the term "floating" pylon, but I think its more like porous pylon.. so many pucks in general seem to get past/through him.. rarely stopping 2 on 1 cross passes, or break up a play with a stick/body check .. lots of porosity.

For comparison, a guy like Ekholm always seems to either get his body and/or stick in to break up a play or cycle.. he just consistently erases chances against.. Bouchard has acquired some of that ability now as well.

A good example of porosity was on the 1st goal.. a 3 on 2 .. Nurse doesn't break up the 1st cross pass to the 2nd guy.. and then Ceci fails to stop the 2nd cross pass to the 3rd guy.. shot.. net.. goal.

Then on the 2nd goal, Nurse first fails to recognize the open man behind him in the slot.. then fails to stop the puck going through/past him .. the whole play was almost like he wasn't there.

Also of note in that photo you posted.. McLeod in classic mid fly-by mode.. McLeod was the 1st forward back into the D-zone.. and contributed zero help.. it was effectively a 3 on 1 situation.. and no one manages to make a play..

I think Dakin is right, the other teams have been scouting the Oiler weak links.. one of which is the Nurse-Ceci pairing; dump it in Ceci's corner, he doesn't have great mobility, and a good chance you can turnover the puck on a forecheck.. and then just utilize analytics.. the high probability of some Nurse chaos enabling a grade A chance.

Hopefully Oilers figure out some effective counter measures.






On a positive note..
Broberg is looking like our 3rd, or even 2nd best, puck moving defenseman.. the guy gets the puck out of trouble.. and he makes plays..

He and Kulak were effective.. they might be our 2nd D pair now.. Nurse-Ceci the 3rd pair

[Updated on: Sun, 09 June 2024 19:12]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!! (Thank you Lord!)
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World

Skookum Jim wrote on Sun, 09 June 2024 18:58

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 09 June 2024 09:25 I feel like I've seen this exact same sequence for a goal against 2 dozen times in the last year. Maybe 2 dozen is actually a low count. Travis Dakin @TravisDakin Watch how many times teams exploit that pairing. It's a set play. Dump it into Ceci's corner and watch Nurse mentally malfunction. Avs did it. Vegas did it. They aren't learning. Go back to the pairings from game 4, 5 and 6. It's ok to admit you f'd up. I think it's very clear that Ceci is targetted. He lost a crazy amount of puck battles last night on the boards, maybe 90%+ of them. Many just totally clean letting Florida guys just take it and pass directly to a teammate. Nurse, you just need to get him puck watching, and he can turn into a floating pylon. Not even a real pylon on the ice that can block a pass, a floating one that you can just pass right through if you choose. 🎯 It was like dejavu.. .. Nurse facing guy behind the net.. puck goes through him.. to the wide open man in front of the net. You used the term "floating" pylon, but I think its more like porous pylon.. so many pucks in general seem to get past/through him.. rarely stopping 2 on 1 cross passes, or break up a play with a stick/body check .. lots of porosity. For comparison, a guy like Ekholm always seems to either get his body and/or stick in to break up a play or cycle.. he just consistently erases chances against.. Bouchard has acquired some of that ability now as well. A good example of porosity was on the 1st goal.. a 3 on 2 .. Nurse doesn't break up the 1st cross pass to the 2nd guy.. and then Ceci fails to stop the 2nd cross pass to the 3rd guy.. shot.. net.. goal. Then on the 2nd goal, Nurse first fails to recognize the open man behind him in the slot.. then fails to stop the puck going through/past him .. the whole play was almost like he wasn't there. Also of note in that photo you posted.. McLeod in classic mid fly-by mode.. McLeod was the 1st forward back into the D-zone.. and contributed zero help.. it was effectively a 3 on 1 situation.. and no one manages to make a play.. I think Dakin is right, the other teams have been scouting the Oiler weak links.. one of which is the Nurse-Ceci pairing; dump it in Ceci's corner, he doesn't have great mobility, and a good chance you can turnover the puck on a forecheck.. and then just utilize analytics.. the high probability of some Nurse chaos enabling a grade A chance. Hopefully Oilers figure out some effective counter measures. On a positive note.. Broberg is looking like our 3rd, or even 2nd best, puck moving defenseman.. the guy gets the puck out of trouble.. and he makes plays.. He and Kulak were effective.. they might be our 2nd D pair now.. Nurse-Ceci the 3rd pair

I'm not sure if you can get away with a pair as bad as Nurse/Ceci at this point anymore. I think Kulak and Broberg both need to carry a pair to try to mitigate the damage.

It's nuts we went away from the D pairs that won 3 straight vs Dallas.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 09 June 2024 18:41

Skookum Jim wrote on Sun, 09 June 2024 18:58 🎯 It was like dejavu.. .. Nurse facing guy behind the net.. puck goes through him.. to the wide open man in front of the net. You used the term "floating" pylon, but I think its more like porous pylon.. so many pucks in general seem to get past/through him.. rarely stopping 2 on 1 cross passes, or break up a play with a stick/body check .. lots of porosity. For comparison, a guy like Ekholm always seems to either get his body and/or stick in to break up a play or cycle.. he just consistently erases chances against.. Bouchard has acquired some of that ability now as well. A good example of porosity was on the 1st goal.. a 3 on 2 .. Nurse doesn't break up the 1st cross pass to the 2nd guy.. and then Ceci fails to stop the 2nd cross pass to the 3rd guy.. shot.. net.. goal. Then on the 2nd goal, Nurse first fails to recognize the open man behind him in the slot.. then fails to stop the puck going through/past him .. the whole play was almost like he wasn't there. Also of note in that photo you posted.. McLeod in classic mid fly-by mode.. McLeod was the 1st forward back into the D-zone.. and contributed zero help.. it was effectively a 3 on 1 situation.. and no one manages to make a play.. I think Dakin is right, the other teams have been scouting the Oiler weak links.. one of which is the Nurse-Ceci pairing; dump it in Ceci's corner, he doesn't have great mobility, and a good chance you can turnover the puck on a forecheck.. and then just utilize analytics.. the high probability of some Nurse chaos enabling a grade A chance. Hopefully Oilers figure out some effective counter measures. On a positive note.. Broberg is looking like our 3rd, or even 2nd best, puck moving defenseman.. the guy gets the puck out of trouble.. and he makes plays.. He and Kulak were effective.. they might be our 2nd D pair now.. Nurse-Ceci the 3rd pair I'm not sure if you can get away with a pair as bad as Nurse/Ceci at this point anymore. I think Kulak and Broberg both need to carry a pair to try to mitigate the damage. It's nuts we went away from the D pairs that won 3 straight vs Dallas.

I think the coaching staff have realized this.. Nurse had the least amount of ice time among the 6 D-men last game.. Nurse with 16.. had Kulak 17.. Broberg 18 .. Bouchard 27 ..

Staples with a good article talking about the Oiler D..
https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /nurse-and-ceci-on-hot-seat-edmonton-oilers-coach-open-to-ex perimenting-for-game-2


2024 PLAYOFFS


This is an interesting analysis by Bieksa of last game's goals against (from the article)..

Quote:

“You got to feel good if you’re an Oilers fan because they played some pretty good hockey, but I think these goals in particular are just bad reads and bad mistakes. It’s something you can clean up for sure by watching video. (On the first goal against) Ceci and Nurse have to identify this is straight 3-on-2 quick strike. So what they have to do is hold the middle and not allow themselves to get 2-on-1. When Nurse goes here (towards the boards and puck carrier) he gets 2-on-1 and when Ceci goes (towards puck carrier) he gets 2-on-1. And it’s great passing by Florida and it’s in the back of the net and Skinner can’t really save that. That’s all because they open themselves up. They got. to buy time. (On the second goal against) The coverage is good, the positioning is good here but just having your stick on the ice (which Nurse failed to do) is a key detail. I know you don’t think the pass is coming, and it’s kind of not really your guy, but just having sticks on the ice in the d-zone, those are two easy things to clean up if you’re the Oilers.”

The comments that caught my eye are the failures to carry out basic NHL defence .. 1) eliminate the potential of turning a 3 on 2 into a sequence of 2 on 1's and a goal.. 2) Nurse not having his stick on the ice.. the guy is 29 you'd expect he had the basics hardwired by now.. which is the most frustrating part.

I'd say drop in Desharnais (if he's actually healthy) for Ceci.. but I'm not sure he's a better option with Nurse .. best LHD that can play RHD effectively is Kulak.. Broberg is playing great.. but you don't want him playing RHD so you either put Kulak and Broberg together.. or Ceci and Broberg.. so its Kulak-Broberg.. Nurse seems to be the conundrum .. he can't play RHD.. and your only option for RHD with him is either Ceci or Desharnais .. name your poison.. 😬

[Updated on: Sun, 09 June 2024 21:18]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!! (Thank you Lord!)
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World

Skookum Jim wrote on Sun, 09 June 2024 20:57

I think the coaching staff have realized this.. Nurse had the least amount of ice time among the 6 D-men last game.. Nurse with 16.. had Kulak 17.. Broberg 18 .. Bouchard 27 .. Staples with a good article talking about the Oiler D.. https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /nurse-and-ceci-on-hot-seat-edmonton-oilers-coach-open-to-ex perimenting-for-game-2 2024 PLAYOFFS This is an interesting analysis by Bieksa of last game's goals against (from the article).. Quote: “You got to feel good if you’re an Oilers fan because they played some pretty good hockey, but I think these goals in particular are just bad reads and bad mistakes. It’s something you can clean up for sure by watching video. (On the first goal against) Ceci and Nurse have to identify this is straight 3-on-2 quick strike. So what they have to do is hold the middle and not allow themselves to get 2-on-1. When Nurse goes here (towards the boards and puck carrier) he gets 2-on-1 and when Ceci goes (towards puck carrier) he gets 2-on-1. And it’s great passing by Florida and it’s in the back of the net and Skinner can’t really save that. That’s all because they open themselves up. They got. to buy time. (On the second goal against) The coverage is good, the positioning is good here but just having your stick on the ice (which Nurse failed to do) is a key detail. I know you don’t think the pass is coming, and it’s kind of not really your guy, but just having sticks on the ice in the d-zone, those are two easy things to clean up if you’re the Oilers.” The comments that caught my eye are the failures to carry out basic NHL defence .. 1) eliminate the potential of turning a 3 on 2 into a sequence of 2 on 1's and a goal.. 2) Nurse not having his stick on the ice.. the guy is 29 you'd expect he had this basic stuff hardwired by now.. which is the most frustrating part. I'd say drop in Desharnais (if he's actually healthy) for Ceci.. but I'm not sure he's a better option with Nurse .. best LHD that can play RHD effectively is Kulak.. Broberg is playing great.. but you don't want him playing RHD so you either put Kulak and Broberg together.. or Ceci and Broberg.. so its Kulak-Broberg.. Nurse seems to be the conundrum .. he can't play RHD.. and your only option for RHD with him is either Ceci or Desharnais .. name your poison.. 😬

Those stats defintely match the eye test.

It's a big challenge figuring this D group out. I honestly think Knob found the ideal setup for what he has. Nurse/Kulak and Broberg/Ceci. Ceci was fine with Broberg as a 3rd pair. Lesser comp, and Broberg was going a lot of the skating and passing for the pair. Worked fine. Nurse/Kulak against tougher comp was more challenging, but there is no better partner for Nurse right now. Unless you want to try Broberg on the right, but that seems like a massive risk. Kulak can read plays way better than Ceci, he can skate much better to close gaps. He is way better with his stick, and far better at passing. Nurse needs a partner that can carry a lot of the load. You are just multiplying ineptness when you put Nurse and Ceci together, 2 players that need their partner to do loads of work for them.

Hope Knob realizes he made a big error. Not that much harm done in the end, we weren't winning that game without scoring. If we do get the ability to aim a shot back next game though, we do not want to be spotting 2 goals to Florida by icing bad D pairs again.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!! (Thank you Lord!)
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World

Here's some more stats on Nurse Ceci for the 2024 playoffs..

Doesn't look like its all Ceci's fault..

Nurse looks like he has the same GF/GA ratio without Ceci.. and Ceci is relatively decent without Nurse..

Looks like the question is how do you arrange D pairs so that the Nurse pairing improves its goals against?

[Updated on: Sun, 09 June 2024 23:33]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!! (Thank you Lord!)
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World