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 Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830817]
Mon, 11 March 2024 17:08 Go to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Honestly surprised by this. But I guess Perry put us over the top


CapFriendly Depth Charts
@CF_DepthCharts
Now that the dust has settled after the trade deadline, let's take a look at the oldest and youngest teams using the current projected 20 man game rosters.

Oldest:
Edmonton - 29.9
Pittsburgh - 29.9
NY Islanders - 29.3
Carolina - 29.1
Washington - 29.1
Nashville - 29.1
Seattle - 29.0
Winnipeg - 28.9
Tampa Bay - 28.8
Florida - 28.8

Youngest:
Buffalo - 25.1
Arizona - 25.4
Montreal - 25.6
Ottawa - 25.6
Columbus - 26.3
New Jersey - 26.3
Anaheim - 26.6
San Jose - 27.0
Chicago - 27.3
Philadelphia - 27.5




I think constant misses by Holland with 1st round picks plays a part in this. Holloway is the only Holland draft pick in our lineup after 4 drafts and he still can barely keep up and contribute. He also is pretty bad at trading, and goes to the UFA pool primarily to try to fill holes which lands you guys near or above 30 every time.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830820 is a reply to message #830817 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tardigrade81  is currently offline tardigrade81
Messages: 2263
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan

2 Cups

Well then they better win a Stanley cup and fast! So when we are crap again for years to come we at least have a Stanley cup to remember


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 Re: Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830822 is a reply to message #830817 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

The plan has to be win a Cup soon and often, but the oldest team in the league is a bit misleading. The core is still in it's prime. Aside from Hyman (32) Kane (33) and Ekholm (34), it is Henrique (34), Gagner (35), Ryan (38) and Perry (39) who are all on expiring contracts that drive the average up.

**I hope moving Kane in the offseason is a plan that is on the table. I love what he can bring at times, but it is far too inconsistent for his price point and he is a rapidly depreciating asset.



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 Re: Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830826 is a reply to message #830822 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 09:35

The plan has to be win a Cup soon and often, but the oldest team in the league is a bit misleading. The core is still in it's prime. Aside from Hyman (32) Kane (33) and Ekholm (34), it is Henrique (34), Gagner (35), Ryan (38) and Perry (39) who are all on expiring contracts that drive the average up.

**I hope moving Kane in the offseason is a plan that is on the table. I love what he can bring at times, but it is far too inconsistent for his price point and he is a rapidly depreciating asset.

I've seen the narrative of Kane makes too much money by others before. You have a guy barely making above 5 mill who all he does is put up 20+ goal seasons almost exclusively 5 on 5 because he gets squat PP time on the Oilers. He's got 21 this year and will probably be around 25 by the time the season is done. He will hit, fight and intimidate if you need him too. He can kill penalties if you need him too. Yet in comparison, Oilers fan fav Eberle, just signed an extension for 4.75 mill. He won't score 20 this year, he's got 14 right now so he probably ends up in the high teens by seasons end. He doesn't kill penalties, nor does he bring the physical things Kane does and he doesn't skate as well.

I'm trying to understand what Kane should be making. Kane will make 375 more than Eberle. If the rough market says a 30+ year old guy who can score you 20 goals is worth around 4.75 mill. If a player scores more than Eberle and does more things then Eberle, should he not make a tiny bit more? Or do you think the Eberle contract is an overpay as well?



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 Re: Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830827 is a reply to message #830822 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 09:35

The plan has to be win a Cup soon and often, but the oldest team in the league is a bit misleading. The core is still in it's prime. Aside from Hyman (32) Kane (33) and Ekholm (34), it is Henrique (34), Gagner (35), Ryan (38) and Perry (39) who are all on expiring contracts that drive the average up.

**I hope moving Kane in the offseason is a plan that is on the table. I love what he can bring at times, but it is far too inconsistent for his price point and he is a rapidly depreciating asset.


Mcdavid is 27, Drai is 28 and will be 29 at the start of next season. Crosby was 29 when he was in grizzled vet "yzerman" mode, going on to win his 2nd and 3rd cups playing Conn Smythe level 2-way hockey. They won those cups because they got some youth injections to add a lot of speed to the lineup. Rust, Sheary, Schultz, Hagelin (not that young but fast), Kessel and Bonino were around the same age as Crosby. Guentzel came in the next year and blew the doors off in the playoffs. Good drafting is a wonderful way to get some youth on your team, which we haven't got at all from Holland.

Is what it is I guess. This team is pretty close to what I would envision Ken Holland would make based on his Detroit time, especially his last years in Detroit. Can only hope it's enough.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830828 is a reply to message #830827 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan  is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

If the players are productive, does the age matter? Perry has 5 goals, 7 pts in 19 games. That's an over 20 goal pace. I thought he would be a good addition but he's been better than I expected. For an older player, making under 1 mill, that's pretty productive in my opinion.


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 Re: Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830829 is a reply to message #830826 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76  is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 11:07

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 09:35

The plan has to be win a Cup soon and often, but the oldest team in the league is a bit misleading. The core is still in it's prime. Aside from Hyman (32) Kane (33) and Ekholm (34), it is Henrique (34), Gagner (35), Ryan (38) and Perry (39) who are all on expiring contracts that drive the average up.

**I hope moving Kane in the offseason is a plan that is on the table. I love what he can bring at times, but it is far too inconsistent for his price point and he is a rapidly depreciating asset.

I've seen the narrative of Kane makes too much money by others before. You have a guy barely making above 5 mill who all he does is put up 20+ goal seasons almost exclusively 5 on 5 because he gets squat PP time on the Oilers. He's got 21 this year and will probably be around 25 by the time the season is done. He will hit, fight and intimidate if you need him too. He can kill penalties if you need him too. Yet in comparison, Oilers fan fav Eberle, just signed an extension for 4.75 mill. He won't score 20 this year, he's got 14 right now so he probably ends up in the high teens by seasons end. He doesn't kill penalties, nor does he bring the physical things Kane does and he doesn't skate as well.

I'm trying to understand what Kane should be making. Kane will make 375 more than Eberle. If the rough market says a 30+ year old guy who can score you 20 goals is worth around 4.75 mill. If a player scores more than Eberle and does more things then Eberle, should he not make a tiny bit more? Or do you think the Eberle contract is an overpay as well?


I more concerned about the rumblings that Kane is no longer a happy camper. When he scores 35 he's out earning his contract and the problematic on-ice attitude that has shown up over his career is much easier to deal with.

Also Kane only get's a small amount of PK time. Resume filler .... And I would not want Eberle at 4.75M to take Kane's 2/3 line role unless it was on an expiring deal. I believe Kane does bring more to the table than Eberle, but if possible I would not have either in the lineup for multiple years moving forward.



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 Re: Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830830 is a reply to message #830828 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 12:40

If the players are productive, does the age matter? Perry has 5 goals, 7 pts in 19 games. That's an over 20 goal pace. I thought he would be a good addition but he's been better than I expected. For an older player, making under 1 mill, that's pretty productive in my opinion.


If you can still produce, then yeah age matters a lot less. The grind of playoffs could wear you down a lot faster. For sure though, I'll take former Hart and Cup winners for pennies if they can still play.

I don't mean to say having the oldest team by 0.1 years is a guarantee we're bad. Just that it's not too surprising considering years of poor drafting and a GM that likes the UFA pool over trying to make winning trades.

It's good we're getting Holland out of here before he starts tossing some Frans Nielsen/Darren Helm/Justin Abdelkader/Mike Green/Stephen Weiss type deals to bury us further into cap hell.

[Updated on: Tue, 12 March 2024 18:50]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830831 is a reply to message #830829 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 15:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 11:07

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 09:35

The plan has to be win a Cup soon and often, but the oldest team in the league is a bit misleading. The core is still in it's prime. Aside from Hyman (32) Kane (33) and Ekholm (34), it is Henrique (34), Gagner (35), Ryan (38) and Perry (39) who are all on expiring contracts that drive the average up.

**I hope moving Kane in the offseason is a plan that is on the table. I love what he can bring at times, but it is far too inconsistent for his price point and he is a rapidly depreciating asset.

I've seen the narrative of Kane makes too much money by others before. You have a guy barely making above 5 mill who all he does is put up 20+ goal seasons almost exclusively 5 on 5 because he gets squat PP time on the Oilers. He's got 21 this year and will probably be around 25 by the time the season is done. He will hit, fight and intimidate if you need him too. He can kill penalties if you need him too. Yet in comparison, Oilers fan fav Eberle, just signed an extension for 4.75 mill. He won't score 20 this year, he's got 14 right now so he probably ends up in the high teens by seasons end. He doesn't kill penalties, nor does he bring the physical things Kane does and he doesn't skate as well.

I'm trying to understand what Kane should be making. Kane will make 375 more than Eberle. If the rough market says a 30+ year old guy who can score you 20 goals is worth around 4.75 mill. If a player scores more than Eberle and does more things then Eberle, should he not make a tiny bit more? Or do you think the Eberle contract is an overpay as well?


I more concerned about the rumblings that Kane is no longer a happy camper. When he scores 35 he's out earning his contract and the problematic on-ice attitude that has shown up over his career is much easier to deal with.

Also Kane only get's a small amount of PK time. Resume filler .... And I would not want Eberle at 4.75M to take Kane's 2/3 line role unless it was on an expiring deal. I believe Kane does bring more to the table than Eberle, but if possible I would not have either in the lineup for multiple years moving forward.



Solve the mystery of when Kane got another long term deal using this 1 clue

https://i.ibb.co/dKnkMcN/Evander-Kane.jpg



I said before players aren't the best judges of who to add/remove from the roster to create a winning team. I would give players some credit in knowing who is clearly slacking off on the team and not engaged fully. He still has little bursts of effort here and there, but I think the stats and eye test show a player that is back to being more interested in his off-ice activities again now that he scored another big payday. Lucky he has enough talent to get by still, but obviously could be so much better.

Maybe pride kicks in for playoffs, but it's still a big risk to commit to these kinds of personalities. Some players are just not cut out for the long term deals. They need the money motivator to keep their butts in gear every season. Kassian was the same for us before Kane.

[Updated on: Tue, 12 March 2024 18:57]


"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830835 is a reply to message #830831 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 20:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcometotheOC  is currently offline welcometotheOC
Messages: 646
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 18:54

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 15:59

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 11:07

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 09:35

The plan has to be win a Cup soon and often, but the oldest team in the league is a bit misleading. The core is still in it's prime. Aside from Hyman (32) Kane (33) and Ekholm (34), it is Henrique (34), Gagner (35), Ryan (38) and Perry (39) who are all on expiring contracts that drive the average up.

**I hope moving Kane in the offseason is a plan that is on the table. I love what he can bring at times, but it is far too inconsistent for his price point and he is a rapidly depreciating asset.

I've seen the narrative of Kane makes too much money by others before. You have a guy barely making above 5 mill who all he does is put up 20+ goal seasons almost exclusively 5 on 5 because he gets squat PP time on the Oilers. He's got 21 this year and will probably be around 25 by the time the season is done. He will hit, fight and intimidate if you need him too. He can kill penalties if you need him too. Yet in comparison, Oilers fan fav Eberle, just signed an extension for 4.75 mill. He won't score 20 this year, he's got 14 right now so he probably ends up in the high teens by seasons end. He doesn't kill penalties, nor does he bring the physical things Kane does and he doesn't skate as well.

I'm trying to understand what Kane should be making. Kane will make 375 more than Eberle. If the rough market says a 30+ year old guy who can score you 20 goals is worth around 4.75 mill. If a player scores more than Eberle and does more things then Eberle, should he not make a tiny bit more? Or do you think the Eberle contract is an overpay as well?


I more concerned about the rumblings that Kane is no longer a happy camper. When he scores 35 he's out earning his contract and the problematic on-ice attitude that has shown up over his career is much easier to deal with.

Also Kane only get's a small amount of PK time. Resume filler .... And I would not want Eberle at 4.75M to take Kane's 2/3 line role unless it was on an expiring deal. I believe Kane does bring more to the table than Eberle, but if possible I would not have either in the lineup for multiple years moving forward.



Solve the mystery of when Kane got another long term deal using this 1 clue

https://i.ibb.co/dKnkMcN/Evander-Kane.jpg



I said before players aren't the best judges of who to add/remove from the roster to create a winning team. I would give players some credit in knowing who is clearly slacking off on the team and not engaged fully. He still has little bursts of effort here and there, but I think the stats and eye test show a player that is back to being more interested in his off-ice activities again now that he scored another big payday. Lucky he has enough talent to get by still, but obviously could be so much better.

Maybe pride kicks in for playoffs, but it's still a big risk to commit to these kinds of personalities. Some players are just not cut out for the long term deals. They need the money motivator to keep their butts in gear every season. Kassian was the same for us before Kane.



Well, to be fair - in Kane's case there is the matter of a very serious, potentially life threatening injury (at the occurrence at least) followed by a long, not necessarily linear recovery and strength progression. That also coincides with that dip in the graphic. Not to say there are no issues, but given what occurred, I think he has done reasonably well.



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 Re: Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830836 is a reply to message #830827 ]
Tue, 12 March 2024 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam  is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 12:22

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 09:35

The plan has to be win a Cup soon and often, but the oldest team in the league is a bit misleading. The core is still in it's prime. Aside from Hyman (32) Kane (33) and Ekholm (34), it is Henrique (34), Gagner (35), Ryan (38) and Perry (39) who are all on expiring contracts that drive the average up.

**I hope moving Kane in the offseason is a plan that is on the table. I love what he can bring at times, but it is far too inconsistent for his price point and he is a rapidly depreciating asset.


Mcdavid is 27, Drai is 28 and will be 29 at the start of next season. Crosby was 29 when he was in grizzled vet "yzerman" mode, going on to win his 2nd and 3rd cups playing Conn Smythe level 2-way hockey. They won those cups because they got some youth injections to add a lot of speed to the lineup. Rust, Sheary, Schultz, Hagelin (not that young but fast), Kessel and Bonino were around the same age as Crosby. Guentzel came in the next year and blew the doors off in the playoffs. Good drafting is a wonderful way to get some youth on your team, which we haven't got at all from Holland.

Is what it is I guess. This team is pretty close to what I would envision Ken Holland would make based on his Detroit time, especially his last years in Detroit. Can only hope it's enough.


Not just good drafting, but other player acquisition as well. Pittsburgh and Chicago did a great job bringing in overage undrafted players to supplement their rosters too. Have the Oilers signed anyone in the Holland era from college or overseas?

I think that those other teams did a much better job of convincing players that if they came there, they'd have the best chance to win, and they'd get to play with some of the top players in the league. The Oilers just have done a really poor job marketing that, and you can see it based on their inability, whether with good signings or bad, to get any team-friendly deals.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Oilers are the oldest team in the NHL [message #830840 is a reply to message #830835 ]
Wed, 13 March 2024 08:14 Go to previous message
Kr55  is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

welcometotheOC wrote on Tue, 12 March 2024 20:33



Well, to be fair - in Kane's case there is the matter of a very serious, potentially life threatening injury (at the occurrence at least) followed by a long, not necessarily linear recovery and strength progression. That also coincides with that dip in the graphic. Not to say there are no issues, but given what occurred, I think he has done reasonably well.



I honestly am not trying to kick a guy while he was down because of injury. IMO the Kane we got in 21/22 has never returned. It seems so long ago now, but I think ppl forget how hard he played that year for us. He was not at all the same player to start 22/23. The injury obviously screwed his season up even more, but that doesn't excuse the constant lackadaisical play on our side of the red line, and long periods of invisibility.

His shooting % is right back to his career average, so hopefully his wrist is not too bad anymore. The rib injury, that was bad, and he probably would have been far better off last year if we had the balls to pull a Vegas and keep him out until playoffs. He definitely was not 100% for much of the end of last season, rushing him back was a mistake.

Guy has an unfortunate history with long term deals. I hope for the best, but if he does end up getting moved and we find out he fell out of favour with his teammates, again, I wouldn't be surprised.



"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 
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