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 Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829941]
Mon, 19 February 2024 16:30 Go to next message
OilFans is currently offline OilFans
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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829942 is a reply to message #829941 ]
Mon, 19 February 2024 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Listen to all that oil industry money cheering for the Oilers in Arizona!

Good comeback. Heads removed from butts in the 2nd intermission. Try to actually play good to start next time though.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829943 is a reply to message #829942 ]
Mon, 19 February 2024 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tardigrade81 is currently offline tardigrade81
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Ugly start. Awesome finish

Back to back wins

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829945 is a reply to message #829943 ]
Mon, 19 February 2024 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
watchman is currently offline watchman
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...never in doubt. rofl god (we didn't get that next bad bounce.)

...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829946 is a reply to message #829945 ]
Mon, 19 February 2024 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
watchman is currently offline watchman
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watchman wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 16:41

...never in doubt. rofl god (we didn't get that next bad bounce.)


But to give credit where credit is due... Knoby did split 97/29. And 71 has looked good on the wing with 29/91. icon_cool

...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829948 is a reply to message #829941 ]
Mon, 19 February 2024 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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All forgiven. 3rd period love.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829949 is a reply to message #829941 ]
Mon, 19 February 2024 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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Oilers and Knights both win, so still tied at 15 games over .500. 'Nucks at 23 games over will be hard to catch.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829950 is a reply to message #829946 ]
Mon, 19 February 2024 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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watchman wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 16:42

watchman wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 16:41

...never in doubt. rofl god (we didn't get that next bad bounce.)


But to give credit where credit is due... Knoby did split 97/29. And 71 has looked good on the wing with 29/91. icon_cool


Saw someone note, you can get a McDrai line without having McDavid and Drai together. All it takes is McLeod.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829951 is a reply to message #829950 ]
Mon, 19 February 2024 17:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
watchman is currently offline watchman
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 16:55

watchman wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 16:42

watchman wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 16:41

...never in doubt. rofl god (we didn't get that next bad bounce.)


But to give credit where credit is due... Knoby did split 97/29. And 71 has looked good on the wing with 29/91. icon_cool


Saw someone note, you can get a McDrai line without having McDavid and Drai together. All it takes is McLeod.


Since 71 decided to play less on the periphery and more in front of the net he has been a real difference maker. At this point he doesn't seem to be able to drive his own line effectively but with 29/71 his speed replaces 97's speed quite well. And that forces the opposition to defense two lines instead of really just one line.

...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829952 is a reply to message #829951 ]
Mon, 19 February 2024 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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watchman wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 17:03



Since 71 decided to play less on the periphery and more in front of the net he has been a real difference maker. At this point he doesn't seem to be able to drive his own line effectively but with 29/71 his speed replaces 97's speed quite well. And that forces the opposition to defense two lines instead of really just one line.


Funny what you can get when you don't piss away all your draft picks.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829956 is a reply to message #829951 ]
Mon, 19 February 2024 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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watchman wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 17:03

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 16:55

watchman wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 16:42

watchman wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 16:41

...never in doubt. rofl god (we didn't get that next bad bounce.)


But to give credit where credit is due... Knoby did split 97/29. And 71 has looked good on the wing with 29/91. icon_cool


Saw someone note, you can get a McDrai line without having McDavid and Drai together. All it takes is McLeod.


Since 71 decided to play less on the periphery and more in front of the net he has been a real difference maker. At this point he doesn't seem to be able to drive his own line effectively but with 29/71 his speed replaces 97's speed quite well. And that forces the opposition to defense two lines instead of really just one line.


Definitely like McLeod with Draisaitl. I don't know why we moved away from that when he and Foegele were having good success. Both of them were scoring points when with Draisaitl, and McLeod and Kane switching lines made both lines less successful.

Nice to see both get on the scoresheet tonight and hopefully that leads to some more success as we move forward.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829957 is a reply to message #829952 ]
Mon, 19 February 2024 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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NetBOG wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 17:10

watchman wrote on Mon, 19 February 2024 17:03



Since 71 decided to play less on the periphery and more in front of the net he has been a real difference maker. At this point he doesn't seem to be able to drive his own line effectively but with 29/71 his speed replaces 97's speed quite well. And that forces the opposition to defense two lines instead of really just one line.


Funny what you can get when you don't piss away all your draft picks.


Ryan McLeod was a 2018 draft pick. The Oilers were awful that year, finished 10th last in the league and missed the playoffs as all Chiarelli's mistakes piled up.

I am completely on board with not selling the farm when you don't have a chance at winning - and finishing well back of the playoff cut line meant there was never any reason to think that the McLeod or Bouchard picks would have been dealt that year.

That of course doesn't mean that it isn't worth trading them when you DO have a good shot at winning, because sometimes you need another piece to get over the top - especially when all the other contenders are loading up for a deep run.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829958 is a reply to message #829949 ]
Tue, 20 February 2024 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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They need to figure out their second periods but once again, they prove when they put their foot on the gas, they are extremely hard to beat.

Keep it going!

[Updated on: Tue, 20 February 2024 08:39]

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829959 is a reply to message #829958 ]
Tue, 20 February 2024 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Watching that game, what a pathetic situation the Yotes are. Looked like 3/4 of the stadium were Oilers fans. Granted there are only 4600 seats, Oilers fans travel well so a few 1000 Oilers fans in a stadium that big looks way more than if it was in a larger stadium. But the flip side, I hope Bettman was watching because the best player in the NHL came to town, another top 5 player in Leon also and that market can't find 4600 people to come to make it so Oilers fans can't buy almost all the tickets. I get part of it was Yotes "fans" and I use the word fans looses, wanting to make some money off Oilers fans but the optics of seeing a game being almost completely sold out of the opposition fans looks pretty terrible.

I went to a game (Yotes vs Florida) late December and viewing wise, it was pretty cool to see an NHL game in that small of a rink. So if it was a one off special game or something like the Kraft Hockeyville town winning something then sure. But to have a team play all their home games in that rink, ever though it's nice looking, is a joke.

[Updated on: Tue, 20 February 2024 08:48]

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829967 is a reply to message #829959 ]
Tue, 20 February 2024 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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No idea if it was accurate, but I heard them say that out of 4600 seats, there were about 3000 oilers fans.
True or not, it's hard NOT to believe that.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829981 is a reply to message #829967 ]
Tue, 20 February 2024 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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As someone who doesn't care about the success of the Arizona Coyotes and who has no stake in whether they're dragging down the hockey-related revenues of the NHL, I don't care if their building is small or large, empty or full.

I think in part because Winnipeg moved there, people have long cheered for failure in Phoenix, but that team supported the IHL Roadrunners like no other minor league market. There is a good base there, and there's a ton of Canadians in that area too - but between locating the team in stupid places, and 20+ years of terrible management, there's not much reason for anyone to get excited.

And the constant drama about potential move can't be good for the fanbase either. Who wants to get attached to a team that's forever rumoured to be moving away. Especially when your management does crap like illegal extra meetings/fitness testing with prospects - the stupidest crime possible because there's a bunch of people involved who have no reason to keep the secret, and it doesn't change their draft position so the minimal extra intel on the players gives very limited gain. Basically the highest risk, lowest reward infraction they could have chosen to do. Then after losing their top three picks for that, they draft an absolute monster of a kid with a brutal backstory, knowing full well that it would be a controversial pick. They could have bet on someone else with that pick, or they could have figured that was the best chance for their success and just weathered the bad PR storm, but instead they chose the worst course of action for their team and rescinded their pick, meaning that in 2020 they only had a 5th, 6th, and two 7th round picks with zero benefit from the first four picks that they lost.

They're currently 27th in the league once again. In the last 11 seasons, the only time they made the playoffs was 2020 when they were 11th in the West, way back of the playoff cut line when COVID cut short the season. If not for an upset in the play-in round, they wouldn't have been in that year either. Since 1996, there's been only two real playoff series won. JUST TWO IN 27 years! And they both came in 2011-12 when they went to the Conference Finals before losing to the Kings. The team is a disgrace, but it's not the market or the fanbase that should be blamed. And I don't care if they're in Winnipeg, Quebec City, Salt Lake City or Houston. If you suck that hard for that long, you're going to fail to inspire a lot of people to drive an hour late on a Wednesday night in February to watch you play.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829984 is a reply to message #829981 ]
Tue, 20 February 2024 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilfan94 is currently offline oilfan94
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Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 16:39

As someone who doesn't care about the success of the Arizona Coyotes and who has no stake in whether they're dragging down the hockey-related revenues of the NHL, I don't care if their building is small or large, empty or full.

I think in part because Winnipeg moved there, people have long cheered for failure in Phoenix, but that team supported the IHL Roadrunners like no other minor league market. There is a good base there, and there's a ton of Canadians in that area too - but between locating the team in stupid places, and 20+ years of terrible management, there's not much reason for anyone to get excited.

And the constant drama about potential move can't be good for the fanbase either. Who wants to get attached to a team that's forever rumoured to be moving away. Especially when your management does crap like illegal extra meetings/fitness testing with prospects - the stupidest crime possible because there's a bunch of people involved who have no reason to keep the secret, and it doesn't change their draft position so the minimal extra intel on the players gives very limited gain. Basically the highest risk, lowest reward infraction they could have chosen to do. Then after losing their top three picks for that, they draft an absolute monster of a kid with a brutal backstory, knowing full well that it would be a controversial pick. They could have bet on someone else with that pick, or they could have figured that was the best chance for their success and just weathered the bad PR storm, but instead they chose the worst course of action for their team and rescinded their pick, meaning that in 2020 they only had a 5th, 6th, and two 7th round picks with zero benefit from the first four picks that they lost.

They're currently 27th in the league once again. In the last 11 seasons, the only time they made the playoffs was 2020 when they were 11th in the West, way back of the playoff cut line when COVID cut short the season. If not for an upset in the play-in round, they wouldn't have been in that year either. Since 1996, there's been only two real playoff series won. JUST TWO IN 27 years! And they both came in 2011-12 when they went to the Conference Finals before losing to the Kings. The team is a disgrace, but it's not the market or the fanbase that should be blamed. And I don't care if they're in Winnipeg, Quebec City, Salt Lake City or Houston. If you suck that hard for that long, you're going to fail to inspire a lot of people to drive an hour late on a Wednesday night in February to watch you play.


I have a friend that is a Coyotes fan (but he just bought an Oilers hat, so he is coming around) and he said that at the price point it is tough to go to the games just to watch them play badly. That's why when the Oilers are there is sounds like like an Oilers home game in the crowd. Not many people are willing to shell out money to see their team lose and play terrible hockey, but there are a lot that will pay once or twice a season to see their favourite team kick the crap out of the local team that no one cares about. So the incentive is for away team fans to show up, not home team fans. All that does is continue the spiral for the team to the point where even if the market could work (and I think it could) it could never work for this team. The best thing that the NHL could do is move them to a market like Quebec that will support a bad team and let that team recover, and save expansion teams for markets like Houston, Kansas City, or Salt Lake that will not do well if a team with a bad history shows up. Maybe in 10-15 years the NHL could try and revisit Phoenix, but the stink is going to need a while to wear off so that the people and the municipalities will want a team there again.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829985 is a reply to message #829984 ]
Tue, 20 February 2024 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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Maybe they should market to that. east half the building is for Coyotes fans and west half the building is for away fans. swap out the merchandise shops with whoever the current visiting team is and try to boost sales that way!

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829986 is a reply to message #829984 ]
Tue, 20 February 2024 22:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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oilfan94 wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 15:16

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 16:39

As someone who doesn't care about the success of the Arizona Coyotes and who has no stake in whether they're dragging down the hockey-related revenues of the NHL, I don't care if their building is small or large, empty or full.

I think in part because Winnipeg moved there, people have long cheered for failure in Phoenix, but that team supported the IHL Roadrunners like no other minor league market. There is a good base there, and there's a ton of Canadians in that area too - but between locating the team in stupid places, and 20+ years of terrible management, there's not much reason for anyone to get excited.

And the constant drama about potential move can't be good for the fanbase either. Who wants to get attached to a team that's forever rumoured to be moving away. Especially when your management does crap like illegal extra meetings/fitness testing with prospects - the stupidest crime possible because there's a bunch of people involved who have no reason to keep the secret, and it doesn't change their draft position so the minimal extra intel on the players gives very limited gain. Basically the highest risk, lowest reward infraction they could have chosen to do. Then after losing their top three picks for that, they draft an absolute monster of a kid with a brutal backstory, knowing full well that it would be a controversial pick. They could have bet on someone else with that pick, or they could have figured that was the best chance for their success and just weathered the bad PR storm, but instead they chose the worst course of action for their team and rescinded their pick, meaning that in 2020 they only had a 5th, 6th, and two 7th round picks with zero benefit from the first four picks that they lost.

They're currently 27th in the league once again. In the last 11 seasons, the only time they made the playoffs was 2020 when they were 11th in the West, way back of the playoff cut line when COVID cut short the season. If not for an upset in the play-in round, they wouldn't have been in that year either. Since 1996, there's been only two real playoff series won. JUST TWO IN 27 years! And they both came in 2011-12 when they went to the Conference Finals before losing to the Kings. The team is a disgrace, but it's not the market or the fanbase that should be blamed. And I don't care if they're in Winnipeg, Quebec City, Salt Lake City or Houston. If you suck that hard for that long, you're going to fail to inspire a lot of people to drive an hour late on a Wednesday night in February to watch you play.


I have a friend that is a Coyotes fan (but he just bought an Oilers hat, so he is coming around) and he said that at the price point it is tough to go to the games just to watch them play badly. That's why when the Oilers are there is sounds like like an Oilers home game in the crowd. Not many people are willing to shell out money to see their team lose and play terrible hockey, but there are a lot that will pay once or twice a season to see their favourite team kick the crap out of the local team that no one cares about. So the incentive is for away team fans to show up, not home team fans. All that does is continue the spiral for the team to the point where even if the market could work (and I think it could) it could never work for this team. The best thing that the NHL could do is move them to a market like Quebec that will support a bad team and let that team recover, and save expansion teams for markets like Houston, Kansas City, or Salt Lake that will not do well if a team with a bad history shows up. Maybe in 10-15 years the NHL could try and revisit Phoenix, but the stink is going to need a while to wear off so that the people and the municipalities will want a team there again.


Winnipeg is already starting to show that Canadian markets, especially smaller less affluent ones, won't support a team indefinitely who never threatens to win anything. They've gone from selling out every night to having empty seats in the second smallest building in the league. Part of that is the high cost of tickets there, but the euphoria of having the Jets back wore off a while ago, and now you just have a team who is constantly a tweener. And the Jets have had a lot more success and recent success than the Coyotes.

If the Maple Leafs or the Habs won two playoff series in 27 years, you'd see a lot less people there caring about their team too...even with all the history. Quebec City is a pretty small market for an NHL team. If a team moved there, then they'd get some early support, but if they're completely mismanaged their patience wouldn't last.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829990 is a reply to message #829986 ]
Wed, 21 February 2024 06:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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Adam wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 01:21

If the Maple Leafs or the Habs won two playoff series in 27 years, you'd see a lot less people there caring about their team too...even with all the history. Quebec City is a pretty small market for an NHL team. If a team moved there, then they'd get some early support, but if they're completely mismanaged their patience wouldn't last.


I think the Leafs are probably the only team immune to it. They'll fill the rink no matter the product. But I really think they are the only ones.

Everyone else is susceptible to it. Like you say with the Jets - the euphoria of their return seems to have worn off. Hell, even the Oilers with a generational talent in McDavid had a bunch of empty seats a few years ago. And these are hockey mad towns where the NHL is the only game in town (major pro anyway).

So if you can't fill Canadian rinks with no other major pro sports competition, how can you expect fans to come out in droves to see perennial losers like the Coyotes and the Panthers (until a couple of years ago)?

Adam - I recall you and I making the argument about the Panthers attendance problems being linked to on ice performance and we were told that no, that's not it. Well here is a graph with the Panthers attendance - I'll let you guess which were their best seasons:

https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=57 63

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829992 is a reply to message #829984 ]
Wed, 21 February 2024 09:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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oilfan94 wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 15:16

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 16:39

As someone who doesn't care about the success of the Arizona Coyotes and who has no stake in whether they're dragging down the hockey-related revenues of the NHL, I don't care if their building is small or large, empty or full.

I think in part because Winnipeg moved there, people have long cheered for failure in Phoenix, but that team supported the IHL Roadrunners like no other minor league market. There is a good base there, and there's a ton of Canadians in that area too - but between locating the team in stupid places, and 20+ years of terrible management, there's not much reason for anyone to get excited.

And the constant drama about potential move can't be good for the fanbase either. Who wants to get attached to a team that's forever rumoured to be moving away. Especially when your management does crap like illegal extra meetings/fitness testing with prospects - the stupidest crime possible because there's a bunch of people involved who have no reason to keep the secret, and it doesn't change their draft position so the minimal extra intel on the players gives very limited gain. Basically the highest risk, lowest reward infraction they could have chosen to do. Then after losing their top three picks for that, they draft an absolute monster of a kid with a brutal backstory, knowing full well that it would be a controversial pick. They could have bet on someone else with that pick, or they could have figured that was the best chance for their success and just weathered the bad PR storm, but instead they chose the worst course of action for their team and rescinded their pick, meaning that in 2020 they only had a 5th, 6th, and two 7th round picks with zero benefit from the first four picks that they lost.

They're currently 27th in the league once again. In the last 11 seasons, the only time they made the playoffs was 2020 when they were 11th in the West, way back of the playoff cut line when COVID cut short the season. If not for an upset in the play-in round, they wouldn't have been in that year either. Since 1996, there's been only two real playoff series won. JUST TWO IN 27 years! And they both came in 2011-12 when they went to the Conference Finals before losing to the Kings. The team is a disgrace, but it's not the market or the fanbase that should be blamed. And I don't care if they're in Winnipeg, Quebec City, Salt Lake City or Houston. If you suck that hard for that long, you're going to fail to inspire a lot of people to drive an hour late on a Wednesday night in February to watch you play.


I have a friend that is a Coyotes fan (but he just bought an Oilers hat, so he is coming around) and he said that at the price point it is tough to go to the games just to watch them play badly. That's why when the Oilers are there is sounds like like an Oilers home game in the crowd. Not many people are willing to shell out money to see their team lose and play terrible hockey, but there are a lot that will pay once or twice a season to see their favourite team kick the crap out of the local team that no one cares about. So the incentive is for away team fans to show up, not home team fans. All that does is continue the spiral for the team to the point where even if the market could work (and I think it could) it could never work for this team. The best thing that the NHL could do is move them to a market like Quebec that will support a bad team and let that team recover, and save expansion teams for markets like Houston, Kansas City, or Salt Lake that will not do well if a team with a bad history shows up. Maybe in 10-15 years the NHL could try and revisit Phoenix, but the stink is going to need a while to wear off so that the people and the municipalities will want a team there again.

Did you ask your friend what an acceptable price point would be for the average person from that area to go to a game?

I was in Scottsdale just after Christmas and we went to a game. It was Florida vs the Yotes, Florida is a good team so the hockey was good. We opted to get more expensive tickets. Ours were $90 a ticket but I could have gotten seats from the team for $55 US to sit in the endzone. They were bench seats but oh well. It's such a small rink, the view would still have been great. The prices were pretty much the same for most games, except premier games like the Oilers where they jack them up because they know Oilers fans will come. Since I bought those tickets, I get emails all the time from the Yotes offering me game packages for way less than what I paid for that 1 game.

In comparison, we also went to a Suns game and our second deck in that giant stadium on the end, the seats by the time they tacked on all their fees were over $100 per seat. The lower you went, the more expensive they got. To buy the same tickets we had in the Yotes arena, it would easily have cost me close too $300 per ticket. The Suns arena was pretty much sold out. Depending on the game, the prices would fluctuate a little but not a ton.

So I do kind of call BS on the price point as being an excuse. The NHL is the best hockey league in the world and you can get a ticket for under $60 to watch it. But people there won't bat an eye drop 100's on an NBA game. It's Ok for your friend to just admit that the people in Arizona just aren't interested in hockey. I have no way of knowing but I bet if they dropped the prices people probably still wouldn't come.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829993 is a reply to message #829986 ]
Wed, 21 February 2024 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
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Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 21:21



Winnipeg is already starting to show that Canadian markets, especially smaller less affluent ones, won't support a team indefinitely who never threatens to win anything. They've gone from selling out every night to having empty seats in the second smallest building in the league. Part of that is the high cost of tickets there, but the euphoria of having the Jets back wore off a while ago, and now you just have a team who is constantly a tweener. And the Jets have had a lot more success and recent success than the Coyotes.

If the Maple Leafs or the Habs won two playoff series in 27 years, you'd see a lot less people there caring about their team too...even with all the history. Quebec City is a pretty small market for an NHL team. If a team moved there, then they'd get some early support, but if they're completely mismanaged their patience wouldn't last.


Is the support in Winnipeg actually faltering or did they just price themselves out of sellouts? The real danger is when ticket prices are low AND you still can’t sell out.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829998 is a reply to message #829992 ]
Wed, 21 February 2024 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilfan94 is currently offline oilfan94
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 11:07

oilfan94 wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 15:16

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 16:39

As someone who doesn't care about the success of the Arizona Coyotes and who has no stake in whether they're dragging down the hockey-related revenues of the NHL, I don't care if their building is small or large, empty or full.

I think in part because Winnipeg moved there, people have long cheered for failure in Phoenix, but that team supported the IHL Roadrunners like no other minor league market. There is a good base there, and there's a ton of Canadians in that area too - but between locating the team in stupid places, and 20+ years of terrible management, there's not much reason for anyone to get excited.

And the constant drama about potential move can't be good for the fanbase either. Who wants to get attached to a team that's forever rumoured to be moving away. Especially when your management does crap like illegal extra meetings/fitness testing with prospects - the stupidest crime possible because there's a bunch of people involved who have no reason to keep the secret, and it doesn't change their draft position so the minimal extra intel on the players gives very limited gain. Basically the highest risk, lowest reward infraction they could have chosen to do. Then after losing their top three picks for that, they draft an absolute monster of a kid with a brutal backstory, knowing full well that it would be a controversial pick. They could have bet on someone else with that pick, or they could have figured that was the best chance for their success and just weathered the bad PR storm, but instead they chose the worst course of action for their team and rescinded their pick, meaning that in 2020 they only had a 5th, 6th, and two 7th round picks with zero benefit from the first four picks that they lost.

They're currently 27th in the league once again. In the last 11 seasons, the only time they made the playoffs was 2020 when they were 11th in the West, way back of the playoff cut line when COVID cut short the season. If not for an upset in the play-in round, they wouldn't have been in that year either. Since 1996, there's been only two real playoff series won. JUST TWO IN 27 years! And they both came in 2011-12 when they went to the Conference Finals before losing to the Kings. The team is a disgrace, but it's not the market or the fanbase that should be blamed. And I don't care if they're in Winnipeg, Quebec City, Salt Lake City or Houston. If you suck that hard for that long, you're going to fail to inspire a lot of people to drive an hour late on a Wednesday night in February to watch you play.


I have a friend that is a Coyotes fan (but he just bought an Oilers hat, so he is coming around) and he said that at the price point it is tough to go to the games just to watch them play badly. That's why when the Oilers are there is sounds like like an Oilers home game in the crowd. Not many people are willing to shell out money to see their team lose and play terrible hockey, but there are a lot that will pay once or twice a season to see their favourite team kick the crap out of the local team that no one cares about. So the incentive is for away team fans to show up, not home team fans. All that does is continue the spiral for the team to the point where even if the market could work (and I think it could) it could never work for this team. The best thing that the NHL could do is move them to a market like Quebec that will support a bad team and let that team recover, and save expansion teams for markets like Houston, Kansas City, or Salt Lake that will not do well if a team with a bad history shows up. Maybe in 10-15 years the NHL could try and revisit Phoenix, but the stink is going to need a while to wear off so that the people and the municipalities will want a team there again.

Did you ask your friend what an acceptable price point would be for the average person from that area to go to a game?

I was in Scottsdale just after Christmas and we went to a game. It was Florida vs the Yotes, Florida is a good team so the hockey was good. We opted to get more expensive tickets. Ours were $90 a ticket but I could have gotten seats from the team for $55 US to sit in the endzone. They were bench seats but oh well. It's such a small rink, the view would still have been great. The prices were pretty much the same for most games, except premier games like the Oilers where they jack them up because they know Oilers fans will come. Since I bought those tickets, I get emails all the time from the Yotes offering me game packages for way less than what I paid for that 1 game.

In comparison, we also went to a Suns game and our second deck in that giant stadium on the end, the seats by the time they tacked on all their fees were over $100 per seat. The lower you went, the more expensive they got. To buy the same tickets we had in the Yotes arena, it would easily have cost me close too $300 per ticket. The Suns arena was pretty much sold out. Depending on the game, the prices would fluctuate a little but not a ton.

So I do kind of call BS on the price point as being an excuse. The NHL is the best hockey league in the world and you can get a ticket for under $60 to watch it. But people there won't bat an eye drop 100's on an NBA game. It's Ok for your friend to just admit that the people in Arizona just aren't interested in hockey. I have no way of knowing but I bet if they dropped the prices people probably still wouldn't come.


I have no idea what work he puts in to check the prices of every single game. I imagine that a Florida game is not going to draw the same demand or cost as much as a visiting Canadian team. He told be that tickets for the Oilers game were about $200. The Oilers draw big away crowds there, and did even before the move to Tempe. So your right that the price point might not always be the issue, but it probably is often enough for casual fans (and my friend is more than a casual fan). Obviously the interest is not as high there, the Coyotes have been burning goodwill for 25 years at this point.

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 Re: Review: Edmonton @ Arizona (Game #52) [message #829999 is a reply to message #829998 ]
Wed, 21 February 2024 12:14 Go to previous message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 12:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 21 February 2024 11:07

oilfan94 wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 15:16

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 February 2024 16:39

As someone who doesn't care about the success of the Arizona Coyotes and who has no stake in whether they're dragging down the hockey-related revenues of the NHL, I don't care if their building is small or large, empty or full.

I think in part because Winnipeg moved there, people have long cheered for failure in Phoenix, but that team supported the IHL Roadrunners like no other minor league market. There is a good base there, and there's a ton of Canadians in that area too - but between locating the team in stupid places, and 20+ years of terrible management, there's not much reason for anyone to get excited.

And the constant drama about potential move can't be good for the fanbase either. Who wants to get attached to a team that's forever rumoured to be moving away. Especially when your management does crap like illegal extra meetings/fitness testing with prospects - the stupidest crime possible because there's a bunch of people involved who have no reason to keep the secret, and it doesn't change their draft position so the minimal extra intel on the players gives very limited gain. Basically the highest risk, lowest reward infraction they could have chosen to do. Then after losing their top three picks for that, they draft an absolute monster of a kid with a brutal backstory, knowing full well that it would be a controversial pick. They could have bet on someone else with that pick, or they could have figured that was the best chance for their success and just weathered the bad PR storm, but instead they chose the worst course of action for their team and rescinded their pick, meaning that in 2020 they only had a 5th, 6th, and two 7th round picks with zero benefit from the first four picks that they lost.

They're currently 27th in the league once again. In the last 11 seasons, the only time they made the playoffs was 2020 when they were 11th in the West, way back of the playoff cut line when COVID cut short the season. If not for an upset in the play-in round, they wouldn't have been in that year either. Since 1996, there's been only two real playoff series won. JUST TWO IN 27 years! And they both came in 2011-12 when they went to the Conference Finals before losing to the Kings. The team is a disgrace, but it's not the market or the fanbase that should be blamed. And I don't care if they're in Winnipeg, Quebec City, Salt Lake City or Houston. If you suck that hard for that long, you're going to fail to inspire a lot of people to drive an hour late on a Wednesday night in February to watch you play.


I have a friend that is a Coyotes fan (but he just bought an Oilers hat, so he is coming around) and he said that at the price point it is tough to go to the games just to watch them play badly. That's why when the Oilers are there is sounds like like an Oilers home game in the crowd. Not many people are willing to shell out money to see their team lose and play terrible hockey, but there are a lot that will pay once or twice a season to see their favourite team kick the crap out of the local team that no one cares about. So the incentive is for away team fans to show up, not home team fans. All that does is continue the spiral for the team to the point where even if the market could work (and I think it could) it could never work for this team. The best thing that the NHL could do is move them to a market like Quebec that will support a bad team and let that team recover, and save expansion teams for markets like Houston, Kansas City, or Salt Lake that will not do well if a team with a bad history shows up. Maybe in 10-15 years the NHL could try and revisit Phoenix, but the stink is going to need a while to wear off so that the people and the municipalities will want a team there again.

Did you ask your friend what an acceptable price point would be for the average person from that area to go to a game?

I was in Scottsdale just after Christmas and we went to a game. It was Florida vs the Yotes, Florida is a good team so the hockey was good. We opted to get more expensive tickets. Ours were $90 a ticket but I could have gotten seats from the team for $55 US to sit in the endzone. They were bench seats but oh well. It's such a small rink, the view would still have been great. The prices were pretty much the same for most games, except premier games like the Oilers where they jack them up because they know Oilers fans will come. Since I bought those tickets, I get emails all the time from the Yotes offering me game packages for way less than what I paid for that 1 game.

In comparison, we also went to a Suns game and our second deck in that giant stadium on the end, the seats by the time they tacked on all their fees were over $100 per seat. The lower you went, the more expensive they got. To buy the same tickets we had in the Yotes arena, it would easily have cost me close too $300 per ticket. The Suns arena was pretty much sold out. Depending on the game, the prices would fluctuate a little but not a ton.

So I do kind of call BS on the price point as being an excuse. The NHL is the best hockey league in the world and you can get a ticket for under $60 to watch it. But people there won't bat an eye drop 100's on an NBA game. It's Ok for your friend to just admit that the people in Arizona just aren't interested in hockey. I have no way of knowing but I bet if they dropped the prices people probably still wouldn't come.


I have no idea what work he puts in to check the prices of every single game. I imagine that a Florida game is not going to draw the same demand or cost as much as a visiting Canadian team. He told be that tickets for the Oilers game were about $200. The Oilers draw big away crowds there, and did even before the move to Tempe. So your right that the price point might not always be the issue, but it probably is often enough for casual fans (and my friend is more than a casual fan). Obviously the interest is not as high there, the Coyotes have been burning goodwill for 25 years at this point.


It would be the same in every market. There are certain games where the ticket prices are way more. It would cost a person way more to go to a Leafs game than say the Yotes in Edmonton. But there are 41 home games so maybe the casual guy doesn't go to the Oilers game. That being said, the capacity for a Suns game is 18,422. The population of the metro area around Phoenix, is supposedly almost 4.8 mill. The Suns can fill that stadium most nights and have people pay way more than most Yotes game, yet they can't get 4600 people to go to a Yotes game on a consistent basis. OR have 4600 season ticket holders who would be paying a lot less than 200 per ticket for the Oilers game. I think that's a reflection on what the market thinks of the Yotes and it not being worth their time or money no matter the price.

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