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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829151 is a reply to message #829150 ]
Wed, 24 January 2024 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I am not sure Hart will see jail time but clearly he's in trouble. If he doesn't get jail time, I bet the NHL will suspend him. So I doubt he sees the ice again this season at the very least. He's a RFA after this year. Even if he's allowed to play, not a chance a team is going to touch him anytime soon.

The Flyers need a goalie now for this year and potential after that. The Oilers trade Campbell for Hart straight up. He's playing a lot better, maybe he's found his game. The Oilers then waive Hart. He's not injured, unable to have any kind of move clause. He's just on leave. If some other team claims him (they won't) then he's sent down but he won't report because he's on leave. Whatever happens with Hart for the rest of the year, happens.

Money wise. Campbell is a 5 mill cap hit. Hart 3.979. When you bury a contract, 1.15 comes off the cap hit. Campbell currently counts 3.85 to the Oilers cap. With Hart buried 3.979-1.15 = 2.829 on the Oilers cap. This move saves the Oilers. 1.021 mill on their cap. After this season is over. Hart is probably suspended, maybe in jail. If he's in jail, it's a non issue. If he isn't in jail and nothing happens, the Oilers don't qualify him for the optics and he's a free agent. My guess is if he isn't in jail and doesn't get suspended, teams will blackball him as they won't want that optics in their franchise.

I am guessing the NHL wouldn't let this happen but just having a creative moment.

[Updated on: Wed, 24 January 2024 13:44]

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829156 is a reply to message #829151 ]
Wed, 24 January 2024 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 13:41

I am not sure Hart will see jail time but clearly he's in trouble. If he doesn't get jail time, I bet the NHL will suspend him. So I doubt he sees the ice again this season at the very least. He's a RFA after this year. Even if he's allowed to play, not a chance a team is going to touch him anytime soon.

The Flyers need a goalie now for this year and potential after that. The Oilers trade Campbell for Hart straight up. He's playing a lot better, maybe he's found his game. The Oilers then waive Hart. He's not injured, unable to have any kind of move clause. He's just on leave. If some other team claims him (they won't) then he's sent down but he won't report because he's on leave. Whatever happens with Hart for the rest of the year, happens.

Money wise. Campbell is a 5 mill cap hit. Hart 3.979. When you bury a contract, 1.15 comes off the cap hit. Campbell currently counts 3.85 to the Oilers cap. With Hart buried 3.979-1.15 = 2.829 on the Oilers cap. This move saves the Oilers. 1.021 mill on their cap. After this season is over. Hart is probably suspended, maybe in jail. If he's in jail, it's a non issue. If he isn't in jail and nothing happens, the Oilers don't qualify him for the optics and he's a free agent. My guess is if he isn't in jail and doesn't get suspended, teams will blackball him as they won't want that optics in their franchise.

I am guessing the NHL wouldn't let this happen but just having a creative moment.


I think you're correct. The NHL is going to prefer never to mention these names except where absolutely necessary. Whenever anyone is asked, the answer will be that it's before the courts, so it's inappropriate for anyone from the league or teams to respond.

There is exactly ZERO chance that the NHL approves the trades of any of these players at this stage of the game.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829157 is a reply to message #829151 ]
Wed, 24 January 2024 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 13:41

I am not sure Hart will see jail time but clearly he's in trouble. If he doesn't get jail time, I bet the NHL will suspend him. So I doubt he sees the ice again this season at the very least. He's a RFA after this year. Even if he's allowed to play, not a chance a team is going to touch him anytime soon.

The Flyers need a goalie now for this year and potential after that. The Oilers trade Campbell for Hart straight up. He's playing a lot better, maybe he's found his game. The Oilers then waive Hart. He's not injured, unable to have any kind of move clause. He's just on leave. If some other team claims him (they won't) then he's sent down but he won't report because he's on leave. Whatever happens with Hart for the rest of the year, happens.

Money wise. Campbell is a 5 mill cap hit. Hart 3.979. When you bury a contract, 1.15 comes off the cap hit. Campbell currently counts 3.85 to the Oilers cap. With Hart buried 3.979-1.15 = 2.829 on the Oilers cap. This move saves the Oilers. 1.021 mill on their cap. After this season is over. Hart is probably suspended, maybe in jail. If he's in jail, it's a non issue. If he isn't in jail and nothing happens, the Oilers don't qualify him for the optics and he's a free agent. My guess is if he isn't in jail and doesn't get suspended, teams will blackball him as they won't want that optics in their franchise.

I am guessing the NHL wouldn't let this happen but just having a creative moment.


Why are you so certain that Hart is not a central figure in this case? Did I miss some news? If one was to speculate, Formenton appears to be the most central figure as he was the first to be dissociated from his team, but all 5 appear to be contributors to the alleged SA.

And like I said earlier ... I doubt anyone gets jail time. That rarely happens to regular people in our society, and considering we are dealing with a bunch of millionaires and their top end legal aides, these kids will probably go rather unscathed in the courts. And this is all predicated on the basis that they are indeed guilty.


Bottom line. If you are a parent of a boy then raise them to be a man who respects women. This should have never happened and there is no excuse.

And Philly should have to take on the full hit for Campbell. Just because ...

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829158 is a reply to message #829157 ]
Wed, 24 January 2024 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 14:44

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 13:41

I am not sure Hart will see jail time but clearly he's in trouble. If he doesn't get jail time, I bet the NHL will suspend him. So I doubt he sees the ice again this season at the very least. He's a RFA after this year. Even if he's allowed to play, not a chance a team is going to touch him anytime soon.

The Flyers need a goalie now for this year and potential after that. The Oilers trade Campbell for Hart straight up. He's playing a lot better, maybe he's found his game. The Oilers then waive Hart. He's not injured, unable to have any kind of move clause. He's just on leave. If some other team claims him (they won't) then he's sent down but he won't report because he's on leave. Whatever happens with Hart for the rest of the year, happens.

Money wise. Campbell is a 5 mill cap hit. Hart 3.979. When you bury a contract, 1.15 comes off the cap hit. Campbell currently counts 3.85 to the Oilers cap. With Hart buried 3.979-1.15 = 2.829 on the Oilers cap. This move saves the Oilers. 1.021 mill on their cap. After this season is over. Hart is probably suspended, maybe in jail. If he's in jail, it's a non issue. If he isn't in jail and nothing happens, the Oilers don't qualify him for the optics and he's a free agent. My guess is if he isn't in jail and doesn't get suspended, teams will blackball him as they won't want that optics in their franchise.

I am guessing the NHL wouldn't let this happen but just having a creative moment.


Why are you so certain that Hart is not a central figure in this case? Did I miss some news? If one was to speculate, Formenton appears to be the most central figure as he was the first to be dissociated from his team, but all 5 appear to be contributors to the alleged SA.

And like I said earlier ... I doubt anyone gets jail time. That rarely happens to regular people in our society, and considering we are dealing with a bunch of millionaires and their top end legal aides, these kids will probably go rather unscathed in the courts. And this is all predicated on the basis that they are indeed guilty.


Bottom line. If you are a parent of a boy then raise them to be a man who respects women. This should have never happened and there is no excuse.

And Philly should have to take on the full hit for Campbell. Just because ...

Where did I say I didn't think Hart wasn't a key figure? He could be, I have no idea. But it's pretty obvious he was involved in something pretty terrible. How much he was involved, we may find out soon.

What ever involvement he had, I think it's awful. I don't know the particulars of what happened. I am not a lawyer so I don't know if jail time is warranted, that will get decided. At the very least he should be suspended. For how long, I have no idea. At the very least, I can't see him playing again this year. After that, whatever happens will depend on what all he did and what others decide. My whole thing was a straight up paper transaction. Getting rid of Campbell for a guy that won't ever play with the Oilers.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829297 is a reply to message #825593 ]
Tue, 30 January 2024 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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I can't seem to look at sports news without catching someone fawning over Auston Matthews' season.

40 goals, with a career high shooting %. Basically just loads of shooting luck, or maybe he's taken cherry picking to a new level. Putting up some of the worst advanced stats of his career, taking another step back defensively vs his history. He's a WHOLE 3 goals ahead of ... Sam Reinhart? Reinhart has double the GWG's, more points and his team is better. Kind of stuff that was used to try to pump people way behind McDavid for trophy races.

This is probably one of Matthews least impressive years of his career. But, media still finding ways to lick his boots.

[Updated on: Tue, 30 January 2024 15:56]

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829298 is a reply to message #829297 ]
Tue, 30 January 2024 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 30 January 2024 15:54

I can't seem to look at sports news without catching someone fawning over Auston Matthews' season.

40 goals, with a career high shooting %. Basically just loads of shooting luck, or maybe he's taken cherry picking to a new level. Putting up some of the worst advanced stats of his career, taking another step back defensively vs his history. He's a WHOLE 3 goals ahead of ... Sam Reinhart? Reinhart has double the GWG's, more points and his team is better. Kind of stuff that was used to try to pump people way behind McDavid for trophy races.

This is probably one of Matthews least impressive years of his career. But, media still finding ways to lick his boots.


But haven't you heard? According to the Toronto media, goals are worth twice as much as assists are. That's how they robbed McDavid of the 2022 Hart trophy.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829308 is a reply to message #829298 ]
Wed, 31 January 2024 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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yeah, but in 2022 you also have to consider that in Toronto... F the Oil. Can't just GIVE them hardware. Unbelievable we still have never had a Calder winner.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829310 is a reply to message #829308 ]
Wed, 31 January 2024 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 31 January 2024 10:13

Unbelievable we still have never had a Calder winner.

At this point it's kind of endearing, a running joke. The Oilers simply have never had a good rookie. Not Gretzky, Kurri, Fuhr, Anderson, Arnott, Hall, Nuge, Yak, Jultz, McDavid, or Skinner. Not a single one.



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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829320 is a reply to message #829310 ]
Wed, 31 January 2024 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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The Flames traded Lindholm to the Canucks for:

Andrei Kuzmenko
Hunter Brzusteqicz
Joni Junco
24 first
24 conditional 4th rounder.

On paper I see a ton of quantity not quality. They got a 19 yr old offensive, right shot dman who was drafted in the 3rd round. He's doing well this year so maybe he will be something. A 21 yr old Finnish player doing very little in the Finnish league. A low end frist rounder and maybe a 4th. On top of that, they got a 5.5 mill winger who is an OK skater but has compete and desire issues, doesn't forecheck or backcheck, won't follow a system, won't play any defense. These are the words of Tocchet in multiple articles of why he was scratched several times.

The Canucks get immediate help for right now as they needed a top 6 center. Lindholm is a right shooting, 2 way center who needs good wingers to succeed. He will get that with the Canucks. They reduce their cap by 650K. The biggest win, they get an additional 5.5 mill of cap space for next season which they will need because they have a bunch of key UFA's, an RFA in Hronek who needs a good deal and is a top 4 dman but Peterson who will be a big ticket.

I think this is a hell of a trade for the Canucks. IT helps them right now, gives them more cap space for other deals and gets rid of a player the team had no use for while upgrading a top 6 center spot. Not to mention gets out of Kuzmenko's crappy contract for the costs of a few if's and maybes that are 3-5 yrs away at best.

What makes it even more laughable for the Flames is in their estimation, they think it's a win because it strengthens the Canucks and makes them hard for the Oilers to beat. Who cares about improving their team, just as long as it makes it harder for the Oilers. The Canucks are also in the Flames division so if they want any success, they will have to also get by the Canucks as well. So you just made a team you have to beat out better and you are happy about it. icon_lol

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829321 is a reply to message #829320 ]
Wed, 31 January 2024 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Guess nice seeing the Lames selling. Tanev getting a lot of talk. Hope the Oilers are looking.

Pretty good trade for the Nucks. Lots of luck this year, but this will help them if the luck starts to dry up.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829324 is a reply to message #829320 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Not sure why the Flames want Kuzmenko, but I am glad they went after the lackadaisical forward. Who is going to feed this guy a puck?

Also hope Lindholm does not fit in well with Vancouver, but a definite win on paper for the greasy Nucks. I wish terrible things on both teams.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829325 is a reply to message #829324 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 10:05

Not sure why the Flames want Kuzmenko, but I am glad they went after the lackadaisical forward. Who is going to feed this guy a puck?

Also hope Lindholm does not fit in well with Vancouver, but a definite win on paper for the greasy Nucks. I wish terrible things on both teams.

I went on some Flames fans site and lots of them think it's a great trade for Kuzmenko and think he's what they need.

I look at the Canucks and pretty much their whole team is having great years except Kuzmenko. I've read a few articles and Tocchet's big thing is effort and compete, attention to detail forecheck/backchecking, being defensively responsible. All things I think hockey teams need to do all the time. I don't think what he was asking Kuzmenko to do is out of line. I even saw reference to how the Canucks play faster than the Flames so a slower pace will help Kuzmenko.

So Flames fans think playing slower is good and are happy to bring in another player who's effort and compete on any given night isn't always there. He should go along great with Huberdeau who doesn't try and Kadri who doesn't always try. But Conroy said he wanted lots of assets for Lindholm so he got what he wanted. The old quantity over quality.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829326 is a reply to message #829325 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Does anyone know if there is an NHL record for teams with players shooting percentage? The Canucks have 7 guys over 20% shooting percentage. I counted Peterson in that because he's at 19.7.

That's insane!!

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829327 is a reply to message #829326 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 12:13

Does anyone know if there is an NHL record for teams with players shooting percentage? The Canucks have 7 guys over 20% shooting percentage. I counted Peterson in that because he's at 19.7.

That's insane!!


Last I checked they are riding a multi-decade high PDO, if they were to finish the season as lucky as they have been. More has gone right for them so far than did for Boston last year putting up a 63-12 or whatever it was season. Just a magic year so far for the Canucks. One can only hope they extend and max pay as many people as possible as if it will happen every year forever.

As for Kuzmenko. Think he was going harder last year for the payday. Nice add to the Lames post-payday crew of Huberdeau and Kadri.

[Updated on: Thu, 01 February 2024 12:25]

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- MacT, 2015

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829328 is a reply to message #829324 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 13:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 10:05

Not sure why the Flames want Kuzmenko, but I am glad they went after the lackadaisical forward. Who is going to feed this guy a puck?

Also hope Lindholm does not fit in well with Vancouver, but a definite win on paper for the greasy Nucks. I wish terrible things on both teams.


We will see - I wouldn't be shocked to see Kuzmenko rebound. Tocchet is one of those over-performative coaches who want the whole world to credit them with anything good that happens. So singling out a guy like Kuzmenko who slumped a bit to start the year and embarrassing him works great for Tocchet. If he does well, then you can be given all the credit - Tocchet inspiring him! And if things don't get better? Then he can basically blame the player - he was never really that good to begin with. And Tocchet sniffed out that fraud early!

I think the Canucks paid pretty dearly for a rental. Kuzmenko is a player still, they gave up a first round pick, and the d-man has some gaudy offensive numbers. Could be quarterbacking the Flames powerplay for a decade maybe. The other pick and the defensive defencemen prospect are meh, but that's a lot for a half season of a guy who also has really had his struggles this year and who's production fell off a cliff compared to two years ago.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829329 is a reply to message #829328 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Complain about how Tocchet has coached but it's pretty hard to argue with the results. They are first in the NHL. Doesn't matter how they are doing it, they are first in the NHL. If you go look at the Canucks stats, from the top line to the 4th line and their defense, just about every guy on that team is having a great/career season, except for Kuzmenko. So is it the coaches approach that 1 guy was crappy while the rest of the team great or could it maybe be on the player? I'm not in the room so maybe Tocchet and the rest of the team is wrong and Kuzmenko right but I kind of have my doubts.

Cap space costs teams assets. Their overall cap hit this year actually dropped by over 600K and getting his 5.5 mill for next year off the books is huge for them considering they have a lot of contracts to get sign, a few really big ones.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829333 is a reply to message #829329 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 13:44

Complain about how Tocchet has coached but it's pretty hard to argue with the results. They are first in the NHL. Doesn't matter how they are doing it, they are first in the NHL. If you go look at the Canucks stats, from the top line to the 4th line and their defense, just about every guy on that team is having a great/career season, except for Kuzmenko. So is it the coaches approach that 1 guy was crappy while the rest of the team great or could it maybe be on the player? I'm not in the room so maybe Tocchet and the rest of the team is wrong and Kuzmenko right but I kind of have my doubts.

Cap space costs teams assets. Their overall cap hit this year actually dropped by over 600K and getting his 5.5 mill for next year off the books is huge for them considering they have a lot of contracts to get sign, a few really big ones.


Can just acknowledge the results are covered in luck that will be almost impossible to reproduce. A 1.05 PDO this late into the season is nuts. Godly shooting % and sav%. No coach, no matter how good, it just making that happen by being grumpy and demanding effort.

I hope they give Tocchet a 5 year extension.

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- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829334 is a reply to message #829333 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 15:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 13:44

Complain about how Tocchet has coached but it's pretty hard to argue with the results. They are first in the NHL. Doesn't matter how they are doing it, they are first in the NHL. If you go look at the Canucks stats, from the top line to the 4th line and their defense, just about every guy on that team is having a great/career season, except for Kuzmenko. So is it the coaches approach that 1 guy was crappy while the rest of the team great or could it maybe be on the player? I'm not in the room so maybe Tocchet and the rest of the team is wrong and Kuzmenko right but I kind of have my doubts.

Cap space costs teams assets. Their overall cap hit this year actually dropped by over 600K and getting his 5.5 mill for next year off the books is huge for them considering they have a lot of contracts to get sign, a few really big ones.


Can just acknowledge the results are covered in luck that will be almost impossible to reproduce. A 1.05 PDO this late into the season is nuts. Godly shooting % and sav%. No coach, no matter how good, it just making that happen by being grumpy and demanding effort.

I hope they give Tocchet a 5 year extension.

I get it, I understand that. Doesn't matter. People keep saying "they will fall back, you watch". They haven't yet. Could they fall back? According to all the stats people, they should. Could they ride it all year? Of course they could.

If the Oilers were doing the same thing, would anyone of us be complaining and wanting the Oilers not to get full credit? Hell no we wouldn't. We'd acknowledge it but would be enjoying the ride for as long as it goes.

In my opinion, pointing it out and trying to discredit the team for doing it, is nothing more than sour grapes. As an Oilers fan, I want them to come crashing down like the numbers people suggest will happen, doesn't mean I can't give them a tip of the cap because what they are doing is pretty impressive.

[Updated on: Thu, 01 February 2024 16:03]

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829335 is a reply to message #829333 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 15:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 13:44

Complain about how Tocchet has coached but it's pretty hard to argue with the results. They are first in the NHL. Doesn't matter how they are doing it, they are first in the NHL. If you go look at the Canucks stats, from the top line to the 4th line and their defense, just about every guy on that team is having a great/career season, except for Kuzmenko. So is it the coaches approach that 1 guy was crappy while the rest of the team great or could it maybe be on the player? I'm not in the room so maybe Tocchet and the rest of the team is wrong and Kuzmenko right but I kind of have my doubts.

Cap space costs teams assets. Their overall cap hit this year actually dropped by over 600K and getting his 5.5 mill for next year off the books is huge for them considering they have a lot of contracts to get sign, a few really big ones.


Can just acknowledge the results are covered in luck that will be almost impossible to reproduce. A 1.05 PDO this late into the season is nuts. Godly shooting % and sav%. No coach, no matter how good, it just making that happen by being grumpy and demanding effort.

I hope they give Tocchet a 5 year extension.


Very reminiscent of the 'Lames 2 years ago. Strict coach gets hired mid-season, and the next season the team buys all-in. It just doesn't last. I do hope they pay lots of guys this summer based in this year's stats.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829339 is a reply to message #829335 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 16:13

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 15:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 13:44

Complain about how Tocchet has coached but it's pretty hard to argue with the results. They are first in the NHL. Doesn't matter how they are doing it, they are first in the NHL. If you go look at the Canucks stats, from the top line to the 4th line and their defense, just about every guy on that team is having a great/career season, except for Kuzmenko. So is it the coaches approach that 1 guy was crappy while the rest of the team great or could it maybe be on the player? I'm not in the room so maybe Tocchet and the rest of the team is wrong and Kuzmenko right but I kind of have my doubts.

Cap space costs teams assets. Their overall cap hit this year actually dropped by over 600K and getting his 5.5 mill for next year off the books is huge for them considering they have a lot of contracts to get sign, a few really big ones.


Can just acknowledge the results are covered in luck that will be almost impossible to reproduce. A 1.05 PDO this late into the season is nuts. Godly shooting % and sav%. No coach, no matter how good, it just making that happen by being grumpy and demanding effort.

I hope they give Tocchet a 5 year extension.


Very reminiscent of the 'Lames 2 years ago. Strict coach gets hired mid-season, and the next season the team buys all-in. It just doesn't last. I do hope they pay lots of guys this summer based in this year's stats.


Similar. The Lames actually played well that year too and were getting results pretty much in line with what they were creating. Marky played over his head though, clearly. If that Lames team was getting seeing eye shot goals every night and Hasek 2.0 performances almost every night, may have breezed to a presidents trophy. All situation PDO for the Lames that year was 3.2% less than the Canucks right now. Toss in extra 3.2% across their SH% and sav% and that's an easy presidents trophy in 2022. Basically that's an extra goal for per game, or 1 less against per game.

A recent comparison would be Vegas last playoffs. They maintained an all situations 1.052 PDO for 22 games (They are 1.013 this season and were 1.014 last season). Basically the Canucks right now are getting the luck that Vegas got for 22 games for an entire season. Boston was 1% lower with 1.040 last year to get a 65-12-5 record before a spectacular crash. They are 1.033 this year.

[Updated on: Thu, 01 February 2024 17:12]

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829337 is a reply to message #829333 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 15:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 13:44

Complain about how Tocchet has coached but it's pretty hard to argue with the results. They are first in the NHL. Doesn't matter how they are doing it, they are first in the NHL. If you go look at the Canucks stats, from the top line to the 4th line and their defense, just about every guy on that team is having a great/career season, except for Kuzmenko. So is it the coaches approach that 1 guy was crappy while the rest of the team great or could it maybe be on the player? I'm not in the room so maybe Tocchet and the rest of the team is wrong and Kuzmenko right but I kind of have my doubts.

Cap space costs teams assets. Their overall cap hit this year actually dropped by over 600K and getting his 5.5 mill for next year off the books is huge for them considering they have a lot of contracts to get sign, a few really big ones.


Can just acknowledge the results are covered in luck that will be almost impossible to reproduce. A 1.05 PDO this late into the season is nuts. Godly shooting % and sav%. No coach, no matter how good, it just making that happen by being grumpy and demanding effort.

I hope they give Tocchet a 5 year extension.

That team is pretty good offensively. Even Kuzmenko, who hasn't been allowed to play half the season, is shooting 12%. Sure that's no where near the 27% he hit last year, but still good. The third line of Blueger, Joshua, and Garland scoring 25 goals and 68 points is absolutely ridiculous. Those are the guys I see regressing. Hughes, Pederson, Miller, and Boeser should continue to be just fine.

I too hope they give Tocchet a 5 year extension.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829338 is a reply to message #829337 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 16:27

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 15:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 13:44

Complain about how Tocchet has coached but it's pretty hard to argue with the results. They are first in the NHL. Doesn't matter how they are doing it, they are first in the NHL. If you go look at the Canucks stats, from the top line to the 4th line and their defense, just about every guy on that team is having a great/career season, except for Kuzmenko. So is it the coaches approach that 1 guy was crappy while the rest of the team great or could it maybe be on the player? I'm not in the room so maybe Tocchet and the rest of the team is wrong and Kuzmenko right but I kind of have my doubts.

Cap space costs teams assets. Their overall cap hit this year actually dropped by over 600K and getting his 5.5 mill for next year off the books is huge for them considering they have a lot of contracts to get sign, a few really big ones.


Can just acknowledge the results are covered in luck that will be almost impossible to reproduce. A 1.05 PDO this late into the season is nuts. Godly shooting % and sav%. No coach, no matter how good, it just making that happen by being grumpy and demanding effort.

I hope they give Tocchet a 5 year extension.

That team is pretty good offensively. Even Kuzmenko, who hasn't been allowed to play half the season, is shooting 12%. Sure that's no where near the 27% he hit last year, but still good. The third line of Blueger, Joshua, and Garland scoring 25 goals and 68 points is absolutely ridiculous. Those are the guys I see regressing. Hughes, Pederson, Miller, and Boeser should continue to be just fine.

I too hope they give Tocchet a 5 year extension.


It's almost the exact same team they had last year, just with a 2.5% shooting% boost and 3.25% sav% boost.

Almost every forward shooting their career high sh% along with Hughes at 10.2%, 5th highest SH% for a d with at least 5 goals since 2001 (just randomly picking a window for fun).

It is a remarkable season. I think this exact same team could just go back to being a wildcard hopeful next year though. Sometimes the stars just align, definitely would agree with that. Thankfully teams getting results way out of line with the chances they are actually creating/allowing ends in disappointment.

[Updated on: Thu, 01 February 2024 16:38]

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829351 is a reply to message #829328 ]
Fri, 02 February 2024 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 13:23

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 10:05

Not sure why the Flames want Kuzmenko, but I am glad they went after the lackadaisical forward. Who is going to feed this guy a puck?

Also hope Lindholm does not fit in well with Vancouver, but a definite win on paper for the greasy Nucks. I wish terrible things on both teams.


We will see - I wouldn't be shocked to see Kuzmenko rebound. Tocchet is one of those over-performative coaches who want the whole world to credit them with anything good that happens. So singling out a guy like Kuzmenko who slumped a bit to start the year and embarrassing him works great for Tocchet. If he does well, then you can be given all the credit - Tocchet inspiring him! And if things don't get better? Then he can basically blame the player - he was never really that good to begin with. And Tocchet sniffed out that fraud early!

I think the Canucks paid pretty dearly for a rental. Kuzmenko is a player still, they gave up a first round pick, and the d-man has some gaudy offensive numbers. Could be quarterbacking the Flames powerplay for a decade maybe. The other pick and the defensive defencemen prospect are meh, but that's a lot for a half season of a guy who also has really had his struggles this year and who's production fell off a cliff compared to two years ago.


Maybe this will help Huberdeau? A goal scorer on his line might free up some of his creativity. Still hope it backfires.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829330 is a reply to message #825593 ]
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I've already seen some idiot Oilers media member demand that the Oilers do something even bigger because they were shown up by the Canucks. This is about winning a cup, it's not a rooster measuring contest. What an idiot.

Calgary absolutely fleeced old man Rutherford. Oilers don't want any part of a deal like that.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829331 is a reply to message #829330 ]
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 14:27

I've already seen some idiot Oilers media member demand that the Oilers do something even bigger because they were shown up by the Canucks. This is about winning a cup, it's not a rooster measuring contest. What an idiot.

Calgary absolutely fleeced old man Rutherford. Oilers don't want any part of a deal like that.

You think it will be just a few media guys screaming for a huge move? Wait a couple of weeks in here. There will be lots in here complaining about the moves they make or them bringing the wrong guy.

Don't you remember the complaints about not bringing in Chychrun instead of Ekholm? Pretty freaking obvious they brought in the right guy but you don't see anyone in here admitting they were wrong.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829348 is a reply to message #829331 ]
Fri, 02 February 2024 04:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 14:04

NetBOG wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 14:27

I've already seen some idiot Oilers media member demand that the Oilers do something even bigger because they were shown up by the Canucks. This is about winning a cup, it's not a rooster measuring contest. What an idiot.

Calgary absolutely fleeced old man Rutherford. Oilers don't want any part of a deal like that.

You think it will be just a few media guys screaming for a huge move? Wait a couple of weeks in here. There will be lots in here complaining about the moves they make or them bringing the wrong guy.

Don't you remember the complaints about not bringing in Chychrun instead of Ekholm? Pretty freaking obvious they brought in the right guy but you don't see anyone in here admitting they were wrong.


The Edmonton Oilers have had Connor McDavid for 9 years and have not won their division or finish top 5 in a season. Why are you so shocked that people generally complain about management?

Ekholm was a great move, but the larger picture has been bad GMs holding thd team back.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829350 is a reply to message #829348 ]
Fri, 02 February 2024 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 04:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 14:04

NetBOG wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 14:27

I've already seen some idiot Oilers media member demand that the Oilers do something even bigger because they were shown up by the Canucks. This is about winning a cup, it's not a rooster measuring contest. What an idiot.

Calgary absolutely fleeced old man Rutherford. Oilers don't want any part of a deal like that.

You think it will be just a few media guys screaming for a huge move? Wait a couple of weeks in here. There will be lots in here complaining about the moves they make or them bringing the wrong guy.

Don't you remember the complaints about not bringing in Chychrun instead of Ekholm? Pretty freaking obvious they brought in the right guy but you don't see anyone in here admitting they were wrong.


The Edmonton Oilers have had Connor McDavid for 9 years and have not won their division or finish top 5 in a season. Why are you so shocked that people generally complain about management?

Ekholm was a great move, but the larger picture has been bad GMs holding thd team back.



Hey, if you haven't been a GM in the NHL, how can you criticize a GM in the NHL?

If you didn't play in the NHL, how can you hope to know what a team needs to succeed?

Ken Holland is paid a lot of money, so he must be good at his job! The Oilers wouldn't employ him if he wasn't!

Other GMs have said publicly that they respect him, so that must mean he's doing the best things for us, right?

Who could have expected him to get the aged wreck of Duncan Keith for free?

And for that matter, Chiarelli got Talbot, who is still an All-Star this year, and MacTavish chose Draisaitl over Sam Bennett so clearly they also were great GMs who we should never have complained about!

The best way to be a fan of a sports team is to stick your head in the sand and ignore the obvious causes of your team's misfortunes. You're not a real fan unless you're a total Pollyanna!

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829340 is a reply to message #825593 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 17:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Would have liked to have seen the All-star draft, but the scheduled it for 4PM on a weekday. Screw you NHL.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829341 is a reply to message #825593 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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and now they give some generic 'Man of the Year' award to the '67 Leafs? What is going on?

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829344 is a reply to message #829341 ]
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 17:23

and now they give some generic 'Man of the Year' award to the '67 Leafs? What is going on?


What's going on with this stuff. Only 3 D in the all-star game? One pretend one that plays forward to rub the salt in.

Bouch had hardest shot in the bag if they cared about D at all this year.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829345 is a reply to message #829344 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kr55 wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 18:55

NetBOG wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 17:23

and now they give some generic 'Man of the Year' award to the '67 Leafs? What is going on?


What's going on with this stuff. Only 3 D in the all-star game? One pretend one that plays forward to rub the salt in.

Bouch had hardest shot in the bag if they cared about D at all this year.


He's not going to get in if they only bring four leaguewide.

Dahlin, Makar, Hughes, and Reilly (for the hometown) are more worthy.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829347 is a reply to message #829345 ]
Thu, 01 February 2024 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 19:07

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 18:55

NetBOG wrote on Thu, 01 February 2024 17:23

and now they give some generic 'Man of the Year' award to the '67 Leafs? What is going on?


What's going on with this stuff. Only 3 D in the all-star game? One pretend one that plays forward to rub the salt in.

Bouch had hardest shot in the bag if they cared about D at all this year.


He's not going to get in if they only bring four leaguewide.

Dahlin, Makar, Hughes, and Reilly (for the hometown) are more worthy.


I'm questioning why only 3 D and a rover were invited.

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"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829353 is a reply to message #829347 ]
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Jets are getting Monahan for a 1st and a conditional pick. Wow that's a lot.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829354 is a reply to message #829353 ]
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 09:11

Jets are getting Monahan for a 1st and a conditional pick. Wow that's a lot.


The premium you pay to get your hands on a player early I guess. I would have loved to have had Monahan here just so Nuge could make him carry his hockey equipment to and from the bus.

Oh well, lots of good players out there that are a small tier below and will add significant value for much less cost.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829357 is a reply to message #829354 ]
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inverno76 wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 09:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 09:11

Jets are getting Monahan for a 1st and a conditional pick. Wow that's a lot.


The premium you pay to get your hands on a player early I guess. I would have loved to have had Monahan here just so Nuge could make him carry his hockey equipment to and from the bus.

Oh well, lots of good players out there that are a small tier below and will add significant value for much less cost.


Incredible that the Habs both got a 1st rounder to take Monahan and also to send him away.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829372 is a reply to message #829357 ]
Fri, 02 February 2024 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Adam wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 09:52

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 09:23

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 09:11

Jets are getting Monahan for a 1st and a conditional pick. Wow that's a lot.


The premium you pay to get your hands on a player early I guess. I would have loved to have had Monahan here just so Nuge could make him carry his hockey equipment to and from the bus.

Oh well, lots of good players out there that are a small tier below and will add significant value for much less cost.


Incredible that the Habs both got a 1st rounder to take Monahan and also to send him away.

I kind of like the pre-deadline trade rush at the all star break. The all star break is so boring and this creates some fantasy intrigue.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829355 is a reply to message #825593 ]
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T-Mac is gonzo out of LA. From Jack Adams talk to the unemployment line.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829359 is a reply to message #829355 ]
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I feel bad for McLellan. He's a good coach. Not his fault his GM tried what the Oilers did for years, roll the dice on mediocre goalies and hope they elevate. Talbot is a back up goalie. He had spirts of showing he could maybe start a few years ago but he's a back up goalie. Played well to start but has fallen off to what he is.

Plus the Dubois trade is looking like a disaster. Year 1 so maybe he can turn it around but he's lazy. That's what his big issue has been before the Kings. Lack of compete. You can't coach out lazy. That trade for the Jets looks like an absolutely robbery.

But firing the coach is what happens first.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829360 is a reply to message #829359 ]
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 09:58

I feel bad for McLellan. He's a good coach. Not his fault his GM tried what the Oilers did for years, roll the dice on mediocre goalies and hope they elevate. Talbot is a back up goalie. He had spirts of showing he could maybe start a few years ago but he's a back up goalie. Played well to start but has fallen off to what he is.

Plus the Dubois trade is looking like a disaster. Year 1 so maybe he can turn it around but he's lazy. That's what his big issue has been before the Kings. Lack of compete. You can't coach out lazy. That trade for the Jets looks like an absolutely robbery.

But firing the coach is what happens first.


I feel bad for the Oilers. Todd McLellan is not a good coach, and it's great when your divisional rivals have poor coaching.

Especially nice when they have poor biased coaching that leads him to make snap judgements on players who he deems lazy or entitled or Russian and grinds their playing time or even leaks stories to the media about them (McLellan was obviously the source for the character assassination on young Brandt Clarke to Elliotte Friedman recently).

I'm glad that the Kings just promoted his assistant and so far haven't gone to try to find an improvement out there.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829362 is a reply to message #829360 ]
Fri, 02 February 2024 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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Adam wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 10:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 09:58

I feel bad for McLellan. He's a good coach. Not his fault his GM tried what the Oilers did for years, roll the dice on mediocre goalies and hope they elevate. Talbot is a back up goalie. He had spirts of showing he could maybe start a few years ago but he's a back up goalie. Played well to start but has fallen off to what he is.

Plus the Dubois trade is looking like a disaster. Year 1 so maybe he can turn it around but he's lazy. That's what his big issue has been before the Kings. Lack of compete. You can't coach out lazy. That trade for the Jets looks like an absolutely robbery.

But firing the coach is what happens first.


I feel bad for the Oilers. Todd McLellan is not a good coach, and it's great when your divisional rivals have poor coaching.

Especially nice when they have poor biased coaching that leads him to make snap judgements on players who he deems lazy or entitled or Russian and grinds their playing time or even leaks stories to the media about them (McLellan was obviously the source for the character assassination on young Brandt Clarke to Elliotte Friedman recently).

I'm glad that the Kings just promoted his assistant and so far haven't gone to try to find an improvement out there.

And people come at me giving me crap for apparently being passive aggressive and lashing out at people when I have comments like this thrown at me.

The guy has coached 1144 games, 2 short of 600 wins. He won 164 games for the Kings, lead them to 99 and 104 pt seasons and he's a bad coach. Whatever you say. Holy F man.

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 Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829364 is a reply to message #829362 ]
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 11:38

Adam wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 10:28

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 02 February 2024 09:58

I feel bad for McLellan. He's a good coach. Not his fault his GM tried what the Oilers did for years, roll the dice on mediocre goalies and hope they elevate. Talbot is a back up goalie. He had spirts of showing he could maybe start a few years ago but he's a back up goalie. Played well to start but has fallen off to what he is.

Plus the Dubois trade is looking like a disaster. Year 1 so maybe he can turn it around but he's lazy. That's what his big issue has been before the Kings. Lack of compete. You can't coach out lazy. That trade for the Jets looks like an absolutely robbery.

But firing the coach is what happens first.


I feel bad for the Oilers. Todd McLellan is not a good coach, and it's great when your divisional rivals have poor coaching.

Especially nice when they have poor biased coaching that leads him to make snap judgements on players who he deems lazy or entitled or Russian and grinds their playing time or even leaks stories to the media about them (McLellan was obviously the source for the character assassination on young Brandt Clarke to Elliotte Friedman recently).

I'm glad that the Kings just promoted his assistant and so far haven't gone to try to find an improvement out there.

And people come at me giving me crap for apparently being passive aggressive and lashing out at people when I have comments like this thrown at me.

The guy has coached 1144 games, 2 short of 600 wins. He won 164 games for the Kings, lead them to 99 and 104 pt seasons and he's a bad coach. Whatever you say. Holy F man.


He's OK, right up until he faces adversity and needs to adjust, and then everything just crumbles.

He's like the Johnny Gaudreau of coaches. Except Johnny knows what he is so he ran away to hide in a place with gauranteed early summers.

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