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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828314 is a reply to message #825593 ]	Thu, 21 December 2023 22:12

smyth260
Messages: 1087
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Michael Kesselring scoring at half a point per game clip while playing very little minutes on Arizona’s right side.

How did the Oilers not know what they had here? Lots of prospect experts on twitter thought including him in the Bjugstad trade was terrible, and they appear correct.

Clean house or bust

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828319 is a reply to message #828314 ]	Fri, 22 December 2023 09:42

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 21 December 2023 22:12

Michael Kesselring scoring at half a point per game clip while playing very little minutes on Arizona’s right side.

How did the Oilers not know what they had here? Lots of prospect experts on twitter thought including him in the Bjugstad trade was terrible, and they appear correct.

Before you come at me for sounding like I am protecting management which people seem to think I do but isn't the case, when any team trades a prospect to a lousy team and that prospect has success, is it automatic that same prospect does the same for his old team?

If they didn't trade Kesselring, is he on the Oilers roster right now?

He's not playing over Bouchard.

Ceci isn't a perfect player, I know that so I don't need to hear about how they need to upgrade him because he's not a top pairing, right shot for the 1000th time. I agree, in a perfect world, they have a better partner for Nurse on the right side. But today, Kesselring wouldn't be playing above Ceci

The debate is Desharnais. Desharnais is still developing but he is improving a lot. He won't bring the offense that Kesselring has but he does bring a dimension the Oilers defense lacks that I don't know if Kesselring does. Desharnais is massive, physical, tough, clears the net and decent on the PK. He's probably an ideal #6. So I don't know if he plays above Desharnai either given what the Oilers defense needs.

So it does really suck he's doing well on the Yotes but I look at their defense and it's not hard to crack and I don't see him being making the Oilers defense given a lack of opportunity.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828320 is a reply to message #828319 ]	Fri, 22 December 2023 10:27

smyth260
Messages: 1087
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Even if you think he is not better than Desharnais/Ceci…

- Injuries happen and you have to prepare for those. The highest scoring right shot defenseman on the condors is 5 assists in 20 games Philip Kemp. We are incredibly unprepared for a right defense injury.
- Why did they include a high skill RD defenseman in the trade at all? Right defense is the toughest position to fill out with talent, why did they have to include that in a rental for a 4th line center?

It is clear they didn’t know what they had, and if they did then they are stupid for not preparing for injuries in the game of hockey.

Clean house or bust

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828322 is a reply to message #828320 ]	Fri, 22 December 2023 11:37

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 22 December 2023 10:27

Even if you think he is not better than Desharnais/Ceci…

- Injuries happen and you have to prepare for those. The highest scoring right shot defenseman on the condors is 5 assists in 20 games Philip Kemp. We are incredibly unprepared for a right defense injury.
- Why did they include a high skill RD defenseman in the trade at all? Right defense is the toughest position to fill out with talent, why did they have to include that in a rental for a 4th line center?

It is clear they didn’t know what they had, and if they did then they are stupid for not preparing for injuries in the game of hockey.

I 100% understand that on this site, everyone in management are complete idiots and everyone here is way smarter. I also understand that on this site, when the Oilers do well, it's despite what the morons that are in management do. They win games either by fluke or McD, that's it. Any good signings or trades happen purely accidentally. I wish I was being sarcastic but I have posted long enough here to realize, that's the opinion of many.

I completely understand that even though there was no roster spots for Kesselring on the Oilers last year or this year or maybe ever. I say ever because like I said before, they need an upgrade on Ceci. Kesselring today is not that upgrade and if they are able too (not saying it will happen) but if they make an Ekholm type trade for the right side, then where would never be a spot for him.

Even though there is no guarantee he would get the same opportunities he does on the Yotes given the other guys the Yotes had on defense, most of them would struggle to make other teams defenses. I understand it was an absolute, borderline unforgiveable error on the Oilers to trade him.

So since the Oilers or any team have to guard against injuries and since apparently scoring in the AHL is critical to the NHL team, how does any team ever make a trade if you aren't allowed to trade any propects or draft picks according to you, if there is the possibility that one day, maybe that pick or prospect might be a good player?

Again, I am not advocating for the trade to be good. If the Oilers hadn't of crapped the bed in about 3 periods against Vegas and won the cup like they could have last year, not one of us would give a damn about Kesselring doing decent playing on the Yotes with a garbage defense. But they didn't win so now we are mad and care.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828331 is a reply to message #828322 ]	Fri, 22 December 2023 18:07

smyth260
Messages: 1087
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

I mean it’s possible Kesselring is an upgrade on a guy who hasn’t scored in over 100 games…I don’t know but you can’t just state Ceci better like it’s fact. But more likely, I wonder if Kesselring would have done better in the playoffs last year than Desharnais did. He caused a lot of damage.

Trading Kesselring for an NHL player is a good concept when the Oilers are at the stage they are at. But it is bad execution and ultimately another setback when you do it for a rental 4th line center.

Clean house or bust

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828489 is a reply to message #828331 ]	Mon, 01 January 2024 14:58

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7826
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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Am I crazy or are is the outdoor game rink more oval shaped than a normal rink?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828493 is a reply to message #828489 ]	Tue, 02 January 2024 01:21

Leia
Messages: 413
Registered: May 2003
Location: England

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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 01 January 2024 14:58

Am I crazy or are is the outdoor game rink more oval shaped than a normal rink?

I don't know about oval shaped, but the TV angle made always to me make the rinks look very narrow. Now I know they won't be, but it's always the same for these events. Yesterday's was possibly the worse I've seen for some time.

Take me home, country road
to the place where I belong
to Alberta, to see the Oilers
take me home, country road

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828524 is a reply to message #828331 ]	Wed, 03 January 2024 17:07

Adam
Messages: 7191
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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smyth260 wrote on Fri, 22 December 2023 18:07

I mean it’s possible Kesselring is an upgrade on a guy who hasn’t scored in over 100 games…I don’t know but you can’t just state Ceci better like it’s fact. But more likely, I wonder if Kesselring would have done better in the playoffs last year than Desharnais did. He caused a lot of damage.

Trading Kesselring for an NHL player is a good concept when the Oilers are at the stage they are at. But it is bad execution and ultimately another setback when you do it for a rental 4th line center.

There's a good argument to be made that the Oilers chose the wrong defenceman. They had both Desharnais and Kesselring, both playing on that same Condors team. Desharnais is four years older, and was already less productive last year (although more productive when Kesselring was still a rookie the year before).

I suspect that the Oilers saw three factors for choosing Desharnais - he's taller (6'7 vs 6'4), he's heavier (226 lbs vs 190 lbs) and he's four years older - which many might (maybe correctly) view as a point in Kesselring's favour, but the Oilers are scared of young defencemen. We've seen over-caution in the usage of Bouchard and Broberg - so I don't think they were going to put a 22-year old in to the lineup, even if he was the better player.

All that said, trading him may still have been the right decision if the team had gotten the right return for him. Bjugstad was marginally impactful in last year's playoffs as a rental player, and Cam Dineen is waaaaaay down the depth chart at LD, so I think it's pretty fair to criticize this as a poor deal by Ken Holland. That's not super surprising though...it's really rare for Old Dutch to win a trade.

It is hilarious that the Oilers struggle soooooo much on how to value young right-shot defencemen, alternatively trading all-star wingers for one, or trading them away for chump change.

[Updated on: Wed, 03 January 2024 17:10]

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828525 is a reply to message #825593 ]	Thu, 04 January 2024 19:49

Suomalainen
Messages: 903
Registered: May 2002
Location: Boulder, CO

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I know I'm going to jinx it by posting, but with this being the first Thursday since August with no football, I'm multi-streaming several games, and the OOT is looking good.
Flames up 5-2 after 2 on the Preds
TB beating the Wild 2-0 as are the Isles over the Yotes, early. Could be a great night if the Sens and Wings decide to play tonight, too.

97.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828543 is a reply to message #825593 ]	Sat, 06 January 2024 21:58

Kr55
Messages: 10866
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Connor Bedard starting his career kinda similar to our Connor. Broken jaw taking him out for some time. Sounds like 4-8 weeks at least

We will see if Nuge/McDavid rules apply if he is passed by someone in points.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828556 is a reply to message #828543 ]	Sat, 06 January 2024 23:00

Red Rage
Messages: 66
Registered: June 2002
Location: ETOWN

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And thr Hawks now have $35mil in this year's contracts on the IR list!

Their highest paid non-injured forward is now Jason Dickinson ($2.65mil).

How many draft picks do we have to offer them to take Brown and/or Campbell??

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828557 is a reply to message #828556 ]	Sat, 06 January 2024 23:59

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Red Rage wrote on Sat, 06 January 2024 23:00

And thr Hawks now have $35mil in this year's contracts on the IR list!

Their highest paid non-injured forward is now Jason Dickinson ($2.65mil).

How many draft picks do we have to offer them to take Brown and/or Campbell??

Brown is useless as a salary cap dump now. He earned his bonus, so he's a problem for our next year's cap no matter what, and for this year he's cheap.

He still haven't been great (or really even good), but there's no point trading him for nothing now because it doesn't buy us any relief. Campbell? Do anything you need to to get rid of that albatross.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828558 is a reply to message #828557 ]	Sun, 07 January 2024 00:18

Red Rage
Messages: 66
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Location: ETOWN

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Ah.. i was under the impression he was on a 2 year contract.

Regardless of his cost, the point is that he is simply ineffective. Getting rid of him and replacing him with virtually anyone else at league minimum wouldn't be any worse than what's already happening, right?

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828559 is a reply to message #828556 ]	Sun, 07 January 2024 10:33

Kr55
Messages: 10866
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Red Rage wrote on Sat, 06 January 2024 23:00

And thr Hawks now have $35mil in this year's contracts on the IR list!

Their highest paid non-injured forward is now Jason Dickinson ($2.65mil).

How many draft picks do we have to offer them to take Brown and/or Campbell??

Wow, their remaining roster is 33M. That should be against some kind of rule that forces them to add Jack Campbell to their team.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828560 is a reply to message #828559 ]	Sun, 07 January 2024 15:55

NetBOG
Messages: 2970
Registered: January 2006
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2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 07 January 2024 10:33

Wow, their remaining roster is 33M. That should be against some kind of rule that forces them to add Jack Campbell to their team.

And the Flamers promply lose to them.

https://media.tenor.com/lJaMNchLJO0AAAAM/the-simpsons-nelson-muntz.gif

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828561 is a reply to message #828560 ]	Sun, 07 January 2024 16:55

Kr55
Messages: 10866
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Sun, 07 January 2024 15:55

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 07 January 2024 10:33

Wow, their remaining roster is 33M. That should be against some kind of rule that forces them to add Jack Campbell to their team.

And the Flamers promply lose to them.

https://media.tenor.com/lJaMNchLJO0AAAAM/the-simpsons-nelson-muntz.gif

Huberdeau 2 points. That's a Lames version of a moral victory still for sure!

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828563 is a reply to message #828561 ]	Mon, 08 January 2024 09:31

Mike
Messages: 1409
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Reading The Hockley News article about the Calder race, and sorta chuckled when I read this:

"If the voting for the Calder was done today, there’d be no question Bedard should win it. He shouldn’t be pushed out of the Calder race because of this injury."

Injury is precisely the reason they rolled out to justify not giving it to McDavid in 15-16 - the kid who won rookie of the month every month he played.

Even more egregious IMO was 2011-2012 when RNH finished with the same 52 points as Landeskog, but in 20 less games, and we heard from all the media outlets how part of being the best rookie is not only about being the best, but just being there. Huh?

But now - injury shouldn't negatively impact your Calder chances?

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828577 is a reply to message #828563 ]	Mon, 08 January 2024 22:01

inverno76
Messages: 2353
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Mike wrote on Mon, 08 January 2024 09:31

Reading The Hockley News article about the Calder race, and sorta chuckled when I read this:

"If the voting for the Calder was done today, there’d be no question Bedard should win it. He shouldn’t be pushed out of the Calder race because of this injury."

Injury is precisely the reason they rolled out to justify not giving it to McDavid in 15-16 - the kid who won rookie of the month every month he played.

Even more egregious IMO was 2011-2012 when RNH finished with the same 52 points as Landeskog, but in 20 less games, and we heard from all the media outlets how part of being the best rookie is not only about being the best, but just being there. Huh?

But now - injury shouldn't negatively impact your Calder chances?

Too be fair, that writer may have wanted Nuge and McDavid to win and would have or did give them first place votes.

I also forgot Gostisbehere was the runner-up in Connor’s rookie season. Unreal. A PPG player was merely a finalist and I’ll take partial responsibility as I was at the game where he got hurt. Most crushing victory I’ve ever watched.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828692 is a reply to message #825593 ]	Thu, 11 January 2024 20:08

NetBOG
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LA just living off the Bettman loser points

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828702 is a reply to message #828692 ]	Fri, 12 January 2024 11:52

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Nick Foligno must do wonders for Bedard. He's 36 and having a not a bad year, 8g, 17pts in 39 games. He's making 4 mill this year. He got himself a 2yr extension already making 4.5 mill per season. So not only do they want a guy that will be 37 next year, they have him a 500k per year raise. Good for him but I can't see other teams offering a guy that old who struggles to stay healthy every season, more money to outbid the Hawks.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #828705 is a reply to message #828702 ]	Fri, 12 January 2024 14:47

oilfan94
Messages: 424
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 12 January 2024 13:52

Nick Foligno must do wonders for Bedard. He's 36 and having a not a bad year, 8g, 17pts in 39 games. He's making 4 mill this year. He got himself a 2yr extension already making 4.5 mill per season. So not only do they want a guy that will be 37 next year, they have him a 500k per year raise. Good for him but I can't see other teams offering a guy that old who struggles to stay healthy every season, more money to outbid the Hawks.

That second year is pretty much going to be like Mike Smith's second year. A nice going away present.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829070 is a reply to message #825593 ]	Tue, 23 January 2024 17:13

Kr55
Messages: 10866
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Everyone is getting in on the IR/LTIR action

Quote:

From @7ElevenCanada That's Hockey - Ryan Reaves revealed he's been healthy for weeks but hasn't been taken off injured reserve by the Maple Leafs

Also looking like Eichel is going to be well timed to make the LTIR sacrifice for Vegas this year.

[Updated on: Tue, 23 January 2024 17:14]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829149 is a reply to message #829070 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 13:05

Skookum Jim
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4 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 16:13

Everyone is getting in on the IR/LTIR action

Quote:

From @7ElevenCanada That's Hockey - Ryan Reaves revealed he's been healthy for weeks but hasn't been taken off injured reserve by the Maple Leafs

Also looking like Eichel is going to be well timed to make the LTIR sacrifice for Vegas this year.

Getting close to the trade deadline.. could be a lot of LTR-until-playoff-game-one cases unfolding.. Tampa, Vegas.. Kucherov is due for an annual "knee" issue..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!! (Thank you Lord!)
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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829085 is a reply to message #825593 ]	Tue, 23 January 2024 20:15

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
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6 Cups

Dillon Dube took a leave of absence from the Flames last week for “Personal Reasons”. Today, Carter Hart also stepped away from the Philadelphia Flyers for “Personal Reasons.” Both players were part of THAT Team Canada World Junior team.

Will be interesting to see what happens next here.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829091 is a reply to message #829085 ]	Tue, 23 January 2024 20:47

Kr55
Messages: 10866
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Adam wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:15

Dillon Dube took a leave of absence from the Flames last week for “Personal Reasons”. Today, Carter Hart also stepped away from the Philadelphia Flyers for “Personal Reasons.” Both players were part of THAT Team Canada World Junior team.

Will be interesting to see what happens next here.

Lames fans on a certain forum spent a day straight talking about how immoral and disgusting the Oilers are for signing Perry.

I look forward to their opinions on the Lames employing Dube.

And this probably solidifies that Hart will be an Oiler right? icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829104 is a reply to message #829091 ]	Tue, 23 January 2024 21:33

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:47

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:15

Dillon Dube took a leave of absence from the Flames last week for “Personal Reasons”. Today, Carter Hart also stepped away from the Philadelphia Flyers for “Personal Reasons.” Both players were part of THAT Team Canada World Junior team.

Will be interesting to see what happens next here.

Lames fans on a certain forum spent a day straight talking about how immoral and disgusting the Oilers are for signing Perry.

I look forward to their opinions on the Lames employing Dube.

And this probably solidifies that Hart will be an Oiler right? icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

Both those players probably come cheap now!

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829111 is a reply to message #829091 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 08:32

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:47

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:15

Dillon Dube took a leave of absence from the Flames last week for “Personal Reasons”. Today, Carter Hart also stepped away from the Philadelphia Flyers for “Personal Reasons.” Both players were part of THAT Team Canada World Junior team.

Will be interesting to see what happens next here.

Lames fans on a certain forum spent a day straight talking about how immoral and disgusting the Oilers are for signing Perry.

I look forward to their opinions on the Lames employing Dube.

And this probably solidifies that Hart will be an Oiler right? icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

Rick Westhead reporting that 5 Team Canada members have been asked to surrender themselves to police related to this. Seems very unlikely that it's a coincidence that those players are taking leaves now as this other shoe drops...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829119 is a reply to message #829111 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 09:46

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 08:32

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:47

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:15

Dillon Dube took a leave of absence from the Flames last week for “Personal Reasons”. Today, Carter Hart also stepped away from the Philadelphia Flyers for “Personal Reasons.” Both players were part of THAT Team Canada World Junior team.

Will be interesting to see what happens next here.

Lames fans on a certain forum spent a day straight talking about how immoral and disgusting the Oilers are for signing Perry.

I look forward to their opinions on the Lames employing Dube.

And this probably solidifies that Hart will be an Oiler right? icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

Rick Westhead reporting that 5 Team Canada members have been asked to surrender themselves to police related to this. Seems very unlikely that it's a coincidence that those players are taking leaves now as this other shoe drops...

Apparently Fomenton has been given a leave by his Swiss league team as well. Mike McLeod and Cal Foote skipped a Devils team event yesterday and are not at practice today. That would make five...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829123 is a reply to message #829119 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 10:19

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Mike McLeod and Cal Foote of the Devils have also requested a leave.

I don't like to speculate but it sure looks like Dube, Hart, Formenton, McLeod and Foote are the 5 players. Requesting a leave of absence either a couple of days before or the day of when the announcement comes out, seems like way too much of a coincidence.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829128 is a reply to message #829119 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 10:48

smyth260
Messages: 1087
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 08:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 08:32

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:47

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:15

Dillon Dube took a leave of absence from the Flames last week for “Personal Reasons”. Today, Carter Hart also stepped away from the Philadelphia Flyers for “Personal Reasons.” Both players were part of THAT Team Canada World Junior team.

Will be interesting to see what happens next here.

Lames fans on a certain forum spent a day straight talking about how immoral and disgusting the Oilers are for signing Perry.

I look forward to their opinions on the Lames employing Dube.

And this probably solidifies that Hart will be an Oiler right? icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

Rick Westhead reporting that 5 Team Canada members have been asked to surrender themselves to police related to this. Seems very unlikely that it's a coincidence that those players are taking leaves now as this other shoe drops...

Apparently Fomenton has been given a leave by his Swiss league team as well. Mike McLeod and Cal Foote skipped a Devils team event yesterday and are not at practice today. That would make five...

Hope Ryan is not like his brother and can block the noise that is about to come.

Clean house or bust

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829129 is a reply to message #829128 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 11:03

Mike
Messages: 1409
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

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smyth260 wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 13:48

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 08:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 08:32

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:47

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:15

Dillon Dube took a leave of absence from the Flames last week for “Personal Reasons”. Today, Carter Hart also stepped away from the Philadelphia Flyers for “Personal Reasons.” Both players were part of THAT Team Canada World Junior team.

Will be interesting to see what happens next here.

Lames fans on a certain forum spent a day straight talking about how immoral and disgusting the Oilers are for signing Perry.

I look forward to their opinions on the Lames employing Dube.

And this probably solidifies that Hart will be an Oiler right? icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

Rick Westhead reporting that 5 Team Canada members have been asked to surrender themselves to police related to this. Seems very unlikely that it's a coincidence that those players are taking leaves now as this other shoe drops...

Apparently Fomenton has been given a leave by his Swiss league team as well. Mike McLeod and Cal Foote skipped a Devils team event yesterday and are not at practice today. That would make five...

Hope Ryan is not like his brother and can block the noise that is about to come.

I forget the details surrounding this. This is the sexual assault at the WJHC a few years ago?

So whoever it is (really looks like these 5 at the moment), what are they in for? Are they looking at jail time? Will their NHL careers be over?

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829133 is a reply to message #829129 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 12:04

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 11:03

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 13:48

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 08:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 08:32

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:47

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:15

Dillon Dube took a leave of absence from the Flames last week for “Personal Reasons”. Today, Carter Hart also stepped away from the Philadelphia Flyers for “Personal Reasons.” Both players were part of THAT Team Canada World Junior team.

Will be interesting to see what happens next here.

Lames fans on a certain forum spent a day straight talking about how immoral and disgusting the Oilers are for signing Perry.

I look forward to their opinions on the Lames employing Dube.

And this probably solidifies that Hart will be an Oiler right? icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

Rick Westhead reporting that 5 Team Canada members have been asked to surrender themselves to police related to this. Seems very unlikely that it's a coincidence that those players are taking leaves now as this other shoe drops...

Apparently Fomenton has been given a leave by his Swiss league team as well. Mike McLeod and Cal Foote skipped a Devils team event yesterday and are not at practice today. That would make five...

Hope Ryan is not like his brother and can block the noise that is about to come.

I forget the details surrounding this. This is the sexual assault at the WJHC a few years ago?

So whoever it is (really looks like these 5 at the moment), what are they in for? Are they looking at jail time? Will their NHL careers be over?

Yes - it's the World Junior sexual assault. Here's a little refresher on what is alleged to have happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_Canada_sexual_assault_s candal

The coles notes - one guy hooked up with a very drunk girl. Then invited several of his teammates in to also participate. They filmed her, they coerced her to say on camera that she consented, they made her wash up.

She reported the assault to the police who quickly determined that there was nothing to worry about and dismissed it. Team Canada stepped in with the Bob Nicholson Slush Fund to pay the girl to stay silent.

When it blew up, the police re-started the investigation leading to this point.

They're going to get charged with sexual assault likely and possibly with something around intimidation of the victim too. It's interesting that they're now suggesting there's 5 and not 8 getting charged. I wonder what level of involvement was the bar there.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829135 is a reply to message #829129 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 12:09

inverno76
Messages: 2353
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Mike wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 11:03

smyth260 wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 13:48

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 08:46

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 08:32

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:47

Adam wrote on Tue, 23 January 2024 20:15

Dillon Dube took a leave of absence from the Flames last week for “Personal Reasons”. Today, Carter Hart also stepped away from the Philadelphia Flyers for “Personal Reasons.” Both players were part of THAT Team Canada World Junior team.

Will be interesting to see what happens next here.

Lames fans on a certain forum spent a day straight talking about how immoral and disgusting the Oilers are for signing Perry.

I look forward to their opinions on the Lames employing Dube.

And this probably solidifies that Hart will be an Oiler right? icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

Rick Westhead reporting that 5 Team Canada members have been asked to surrender themselves to police related to this. Seems very unlikely that it's a coincidence that those players are taking leaves now as this other shoe drops...

Apparently Fomenton has been given a leave by his Swiss league team as well. Mike McLeod and Cal Foote skipped a Devils team event yesterday and are not at practice today. That would make five...

Hope Ryan is not like his brother and can block the noise that is about to come.

I forget the details surrounding this. This is the sexual assault at the WJHC a few years ago?

So whoever it is (really looks like these 5 at the moment), what are they in for? Are they looking at jail time? Will their NHL careers be over?

That will be up to the courts once they have been presented with the testimonies and evidence. Having worked in the prison system I can confidently tell you that extreme sexual assault cases often only get a slap on the hand and relatively short sentences that do not match up the impact of the victim.

I doubt much will happen in regards to a prison sentence and depending on the star power of the player, they will likely resume their career after seeking and receiving support for their delinquent behaviours.

It is sad that the penalties for many sex offenders are a joke. Not to get too deep into this discussion, but most sex offenders are considered 'good people' in the community, have great jobs, families and are predominantly white males. I believe the last stat I read in regards to demographics was it is almost 90% white males who are charged and convicted of these crimes.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829136 is a reply to message #829129 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 12:10

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Some interesting side notes here:

The Flames announcement of Dube's leave of absence referenced "Mental Health" as the reason for the leave. That seems like a very questionable decision on the part of the Flames now.

And the New Jersey Devils yesterday announced and had a press conference about Tom Fitzgerald's new contract extending his time as GM & POHO...they held off on the news of their players' leaves until today so he fortunately didn't have any awkward questions.

All the rumours about the Flyers shopping Carter Hart earlier in the year...I wonder if they were trying to sucker someone in to giving them something for a toxic asset.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829138 is a reply to message #829136 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 12:23

nullterm
Messages: 1038
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 11:10

Some interesting side notes here:

The Flames announcement of Dube's leave of absence referenced "Mental Health" as the reason for the leave. That seems like a very questionable decision on the part of the Flames now.

And the New Jersey Devils yesterday announced and had a press conference about Tom Fitzgerald's new contract extending his time as GM & POHO...they held off on the news of their players' leaves until today so he fortunately didn't have any awkward questions.

All the rumours about the Flyers shopping Carter Hart earlier in the year...I wonder if they were trying to sucker someone in to giving them something for a toxic asset.

I remember all the talk about how we should go after Hart when the goalies were struggling. Matrix bullet dodge there.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829139 is a reply to message #829138 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 12:25

Kr55
Messages: 10866
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

nullterm wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 12:23

Adam wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 11:10

Some interesting side notes here:

The Flames announcement of Dube's leave of absence referenced "Mental Health" as the reason for the leave. That seems like a very questionable decision on the part of the Flames now.

And the New Jersey Devils yesterday announced and had a press conference about Tom Fitzgerald's new contract extending his time as GM & POHO...they held off on the news of their players' leaves until today so he fortunately didn't have any awkward questions.

All the rumours about the Flyers shopping Carter Hart earlier in the year...I wonder if they were trying to sucker someone in to giving them something for a toxic asset.

I remember all the talk about how we should go after Hart when the goalies were struggling. Matrix bullet dodge there.

We could terminate his contract though, if we suckered Philly into taking Campbell for him :)

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
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"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829142 is a reply to message #829139 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 12:36

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
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Does anyone know how it works cap wise for these guy on leave? Can a team put them on LTIR or do they still count against the cap? I'm assuming they count against the cap but not sure.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829144 is a reply to message #829142 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 12:38

Kr55
Messages: 10866
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 12:36

Does anyone know how it works cap wise for these guy on leave? Can a team put them on LTIR or do they still count against the cap? I'm assuming they count against the cap but not sure.

I don't think a leave can be considered LTIR. Capfriendly changed Dube to a "non-roster" player. 100% of his cap still counting.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829146 is a reply to message #829144 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 12:58

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 12:38

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 12:36

Does anyone know how it works cap wise for these guy on leave? Can a team put them on LTIR or do they still count against the cap? I'm assuming they count against the cap but not sure.

I don't think a leave can be considered LTIR. Capfriendly changed Dube to a "non-roster" player. 100% of his cap still counting.

That's what I thought. Thank you.

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829150 is a reply to message #829129 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 13:26

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4449
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Mike wrote on Wed, 24 January 2024 10:03

I forget the details surrounding this. This is the sexual assault at the WJHC a few years ago?

So whoever it is (really looks like these 5 at the moment), what are they in for? Are they looking at jail time? Will their NHL careers be over?

It wasn't at a Hockey tournament, it was at a summer fundraising golf tournament in 2018 (summer after WJHC) organized by Hockey Canada.. Hockey Canada invited players from the 2018 team to come help support in the fundraising.. shoulda stayed at home..

The woman and a player met in a hotel bar in the evening, and went back to his hotel together.. apparently both intoxicated.. then others came to the room.. here's some info from court docs filed previously during the HC lawsuit (3.5M) ..
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/12/20/news/london-poli ce-believe-womans-allegations-sexual-assault-canadian-junior -team-players

from article..

Quote:

.. E.M. went with a friend to a downtown London bar that night to meet other friends. She said she drank two coolers before arriving at the bar. She continued drinking and began dancing with a player from the team and his friends.

They bought her drinks, with an older man also buying her a drink and telling her to "take care of" the player, who he was praising. The man was identified by police as someone who "commonly attends these functions as part of his occupation."

E.M. told police the player described his name as different from the name his friends were calling him. She also said she was so intoxicated she fell down near the bar's washroom.

She described herself and the player as intoxicated when they returned to the hotel. After they had sex, E.M. thought she observed the player texting and then two men arrived at their room.

After going to the washroom, she says she returned to find "seven or eight" men in the room. The player confirmed in police interviews he texted teammates to come to his room and said E.M. "seemed fine with the guys in the room, in fact, she appeared kind of flirty."

E.M. described sex acts she felt coerced into performing, and said the players laughed and joked at her expense. She said they slapped her buttocks so hard it hurt.

When she cried in the washroom and got dressed to leave, they convinced her to stay. When E.M. did leave the room, she briefly returned to look for a ring she'd lost.

The following morning, her mother reported the incident to the London police. Her husband contacted Hockey Canada and provided a picture of the player who accompanied E.M. to the hotel that night.

Police say the player recorded two short videos of E.M. that night in the hotel room in which he asks her consent for what was happening.

Police say they also have an Instagram conversation between E.M. and the player, in which the player asks her if she had gone to the police and states "you need to talk to your mother right now and straighten things out with the police before this goes to far. This is a serious matter that she is misrepresenting and could have significant implications for a lot of people including you."

[Updated on: Wed, 24 January 2024 13:59]

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Re: 2023-24 OOT Thread [message #829151 is a reply to message #829150 ]	Wed, 24 January 2024 13:41

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I am not sure Hart will see jail time but clearly he's in trouble. If he doesn't get jail time, I bet the NHL will suspend him. So I doubt he sees the ice again this season at the very least. He's a RFA after this year. Even if he's allowed to play, not a chance a team is going to touch him anytime soon.

The Flyers need a goalie now for this year and potential after that. The Oilers trade Campbell for Hart straight up. He's playing a lot better, maybe he's found his game. The Oilers then waive Hart. He's not injured, unable to have any kind of move clause. He's just on leave. If some other team claims him (they won't) then he's sent down but he won't report because he's on leave. Whatever happens with Hart for the rest of the year, happens.

Money wise. Campbell is a 5 mill cap hit. Hart 3.979. When you bury a contract, 1.15 comes off the cap hit. Campbell currently counts 3.85 to the Oilers cap. With Hart buried 3.979-1.15 = 2.829 on the Oilers cap. This move saves the Oilers. 1.021 mill on their cap. After this season is over. Hart is probably suspended, maybe in jail. If he's in jail, it's a non issue. If he isn't in jail and nothing happens, the Oilers don't qualify him for the optics and he's a free agent. My guess is if he isn't in jail and doesn't get suspended, teams will blackball him as they won't want that optics in their franchise.

I am guessing the NHL wouldn't let this happen but just having a creative moment.

[Updated on: Wed, 24 January 2024 13:44]

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