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Oilers » Review: Edmonton @ San Jose (Game #12)

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ San Jose (Game #12) [message #826933 is a reply to message #826931 ]	Fri, 10 November 2023 12:38

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7825
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 10 November 2023 12:21

g2k wrote on Fri, 10 November 2023 11:55

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 10 November 2023 11:29

Oilers reddit is still very much “Ken has improved the team every year…He’s not that bad much better than Chiarelli…why replace him mid-season when he will be finished at the end of the year anyway”

It’s crazy how the media has groomed this city for incompetence. Like I am frequently upset that Ken Holland’s Oilers have never won a division with McDavid, never a top 5 finish. I feel like only Oilfans and some voices on twitter understand how many managerial problems have been covered up by 29/97.

At least in Vancouver and Toronto when they don’t like what they see, they let it be known loudly and collectively. Fans chanted Ron Wilson and Mike Gillis out of jobs. Vancouver fans cheered on Boudreau when he had to fall on the sword last year. Such different markets compared to Edmonton, who really just goes along with whatever the MSM pushes. It’s never management’s fault here. Management is good enough, as if we just want to watch a hockey team that is good enough and nothing more.

Even if the damage is already done in regard to firing Holland, you would think it would be optically favourable to let paying customers and fans know you mean business. But not with this organization. Because they truly don’t mean business. They have not been serious enough since the ownership change. They have squandered a small Haitian army of high draft picks with a cavalier buddy system management model and created a culture of low accountability from the ownership down to the plugs.

CrusaderPi's said it multiple times - Throughout the entire the Kevin Lowe-era, (which I'd argue we're still at the tail end of even though he's now no longer on the website - so maybe he truly has stepped away?) the team hasn't been serious about winning or competing. Maybe 2006 is the anomaly there, but other than that, they've always put other things ahead of winning - whether it's settling scores (Comrie comes to mind), giving buddies and family a nice place to work (Coffey now IS on the website), protecting and insulating the management from criticism, or just rewarding people who they think are nice (Gryba buyout, Smyth "coaching" job, etc.)

Holland is a lame duck here. He's ancient, the money's already spent on him, and he's not coming back next year. His fingerprints are ALL OVER this failure. He was the absolute wrong hire when they got him, and in the time since about 80% of his moves have been poor. Anything good that has happened with the team in his tenure come from the great players we have on the roster, especially the ones not acquired by Ken Holland. He spent MOST of his contract trying to convince the fans that they shouldn't expect a winner, rather than actually building one.

And we're at the point where the only managerial routes out of the morass require cap creativity and some great trades. Holland doesn't believe in using loopholes and he has actually said that you can't win trades. That is NOT the man to get us out of this spot.

Honestly, it's almost symbolic to flush him, but it's so completely deserved that it should be the first move the Oilers make now.

This is where good management comes into play. Holland is a lame duck who built a hockey team that wasn't good enough. I can understand why the Oilers don't want to (and probably shouldn't) go through the act of ceremonially firing him. BUT, the do need to know internally what is going to happen next year. Who is the replacement, how will the priorities change, how will knowledge and information be transferred, who is making decisions now, and how do we make sure we aren't selling the future. And because this is a public organization, the season ticket holds and advertisers and everyone else needs to know that this is happening too. I don't trust the Oilers to make good decisions because of that I don't invest any emotional capital into them which means I don't give them any of my money. I encourage everyone else to do the same until they prove their worthy of your financial and emotional support.

Change management man. I guess they can't do that if they don't have actual management.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ San Jose (Game #12) [message #826934 is a reply to message #826933 ]	Fri, 10 November 2023 13:18

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 10 November 2023 12:38

Change management man. I guess they can't do that if they don't have actual management.

You can hire out for that kind of thing! Lots of firms who have experts to help with leadership transitions!

However, the Oilers may over-spend at the top and not have any money left for that. I wonder how much each of our three Assistant GMs get? How much are they paying Nicholson to be a vapid figurehead? How much is Coffey getting to have a few beers with the GM now and then and occasionally talk to the team about the importance of winning games? If you're giving $5MM to Holland, then what do you pay the new guy, who's technically his boss now?

Maybe it's too bad that there isn't a salary cap on management. Might force us to be a little more efficient...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ San Jose (Game #12) [message #826935 is a reply to message #826931 ]	Fri, 10 November 2023 13:24

g2k
Messages: 2846
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood

2 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 10 November 2023 12:21

g2k wrote on Fri, 10 November 2023 11:55

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 10 November 2023 11:29

Oh yes. My scorn lately is on Nicholson for hiring Holland. The guy who assured fans he was on it by announcing he’s been canvassing other GM’s in Florida on who would be the right GM for the Oilers. That was so encouraging to hear. Kr55 put a good reminder for me on page 1 of this review on how we ended up with that twit for a President. Sober reminder.

[Updated on: Fri, 10 November 2023 13:30]

#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ San Jose (Game #12) [message #826939 is a reply to message #826935 ]	Fri, 10 November 2023 16:10

Adam
Messages: 7191
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

g2k wrote on Fri, 10 November 2023 13:24

Adam wrote on Fri, 10 November 2023 12:21

g2k wrote on Fri, 10 November 2023 11:55

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 10 November 2023 11:29

I was beside myself about that at the time. It was just so stupid on so many levels.

- First off, it's profoundly idiotic to think the other GMs are all your buddies and that they want to see you do well. They don't. They're the competition and there's nothing in it for them to help you. They'd rather you have a moron for a GM so that they can take advantage of that moron.

- Secondly, why brag up your approach? They care and cared more about public perception that they were doing a good job than they actually cared about doing a good job. Not to mention, only the absolutely foolish would hear that that was Nicholson's tactic and think "yeah, that's a great idea! Those guys WILL know best what he should be looking for in a GM and they're so likely to tell him!"

- Three, they had the attention span of a gerbil. Nicholson swore up and down that he was going to finally do the first ever actual search for a GM and went through all the beginnings of that. They'd lined up interviews with a whole bunch of people and I think they'd even done a couple of them...and then he heard that Holland was available, and just threw a giant sack of money at him, dropping all other candidates immediately.

- I'll concede, I believe when they started that hunt that it was a rubber stamp exercise to iscover that Keith Gretzky was the best person to be GM and everything else was just jumping through hoops in order to do what the team had already decided to do. If you remember, Nicholson was also asking the GM's what they though of how Keith had acquitted himself in the couple of months that he was the interim GM. Holland's availability changed that and made them actually consider an external hire. While guys like Bill Zito were on the list, I can't see them ever having agreed to give him the role.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ San Jose (Game #12) [message #826940 is a reply to message #826939 ]	Fri, 10 November 2023 18:48

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7825
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

I'm very interested to see how the Oilers manage and mitigate the looming season ticket holder's revolt. Every time that's happened over the last 15 years a new shiny toy has come along to distract the fans from how poorly the team has been managed. There's nothing new coming to save the organization from itself now. There's not a better version of Hall or McDavid coming. The new arena is getting dusty. I don't think a veteran GM who has WON A CUP is going to trick anyone. They've tried new coaches and old coaches and ex-Oilers coaches. All that's left for them to sell is an underperforming cap strapped team that might have to make some uncomfortable trades.

Of course winning solves all.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ San Jose (Game #12) [message #826915 is a reply to message #826886 ]	Fri, 10 November 2023 09:15

Suomalainen
Messages: 903
Registered: May 2002
Location: Boulder, CO

No Cups

I hate this team.
If I didn't get value out of the Disney+/Hulu/ESPN+ package for other things, I'd cancel the ESPN subscription this year out of spite. (I might do it anyway to save money given my current situation, but that's a discussion for another day)

97.

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