| FIRE DUSTIN SCHWARTZ [message #825963] |
Sat, 14 October 2023 22:37  |
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 HamBlaster
Messages: 989
Registered: June 2007
No Cups
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I'm appalled at our goaltending situation.
I'm not giving our defense a free pass here, but holy hell. Consistently, we have to outshoot and outchance our opponents to win games. Luckily, we have the players to do that... typically. But this goaltending is beyond bad... it's legitimately terrible.
Fire this guy that's been consistently icing sub-par goalies. What has he been teaching them? They come into the organization with high potential and good pedigree, and they end up looking like flaming carcasses under his watch.
Enough is enough, Oilers. Can this guy.
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Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| HamBlaster wrote on Sat, 14 October 2023 22:37 |
I'm appalled at our goaltending situation.
I'm not giving our defense a free pass here, but holy hell. Consistently, we have to outshoot and outchance our opponents to win games. Luckily, we have the players to do that... typically. But this goaltending is beyond bad... it's legitimately terrible.
Fire this guy that's been consistently icing sub-par goalies. What has he been teaching them? They come into the organization with high potential and good pedigree, and they end up looking like flaming carcasses under his watch.
Enough is enough, Oilers. Can this guy.
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Spector goes out of his way on twitter to tell people this is a tired old narrative. It's perfectly normal for a goalie coach to survive 3 GM's and 6 coaches, or whatever it's been, while also seeing every goalie under him (except a 39 year old set in his ways) regress under his tutelage. Completely normal, and we're dumb for thinking he is at all to blame for anything and there are better people out in the hockey world that could take his job.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| Kr55 wrote on Sat, 14 October 2023 23:28 |
| HamBlaster wrote on Sat, 14 October 2023 22:37 |
I'm appalled at our goaltending situation.
I'm not giving our defense a free pass here, but holy hell. Consistently, we have to outshoot and outchance our opponents to win games. Luckily, we have the players to do that... typically. But this goaltending is beyond bad... it's legitimately terrible.
Fire this guy that's been consistently icing sub-par goalies. What has he been teaching them? They come into the organization with high potential and good pedigree, and they end up looking like flaming carcasses under his watch.
Enough is enough, Oilers. Can this guy.
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Spector goes out of his way on twitter to tell people this is a tired old narrative. It's perfectly normal for a goalie coach to survive 3 GM's and 6 coaches, or whatever it's been, while also seeing every goalie under him (except a 39 year old set in his ways) regress under his tutelage. Completely normal, and we're dumb for thinking he is at all to blame for anything and there are better people out in the hockey world that could take his job.
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When Spector is trying to calm down firing talk, it's a clear sign that that's a person who'll happily give him the dirt off the record. Even more reason to clean house on Schwartz.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
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So about that…
Not sure it is a magic bullet that will fix all our goaltending woes, but as many have said many times over - not only has nobody improved on his watch, every single guys has fallen off a cliff.
What’s the worst that could happen if you turf this guy? We get regular sub .900 performances? 
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tardigrade81
Messages: 2263
Registered: November 2022
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
2 Cups
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Right now. The entire team stinks, but if we Dont improve at the goalie position we will be swept by Vegas or Colorado in the playoffs
If we even make playoffs
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RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
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Go ahead, fire Schwartz if people want. Unless you expect the goalies to get shut outs ever game, it won't make a damn bit of difference. The team is flat out not playing well and their effort level from McD down is garbage.
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Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 20 October 2023 07:52 |
Go ahead, fire Schwartz if people want. Unless you expect the goalies to get shut outs ever game, it won't make a damn bit of difference. The team is flat out not playing well and their effort level from McD down is garbage.
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There are definitely lots of other things wrong with this team. Not sure that is an excuse to let this guy with 100 lives stick around and oversee every goalie we have regress though. Just makes no sense for him to survive 3 GM's and half a dozen coaches while getting only negative results. Only goalie that survived him was a 39 year old Mike Smith that was completely set in his ways.
Schwartz is just becoming a shining example of how unserious this org is at doing the best they can in every aspect to try to win.
[Updated on: Fri, 20 October 2023 12:10]
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC
1 Cup
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I don’t expect a goalie to win us every game. But you would expect a goalie to on occasion stand on his head and win a game despite the rest of the team playing poorly. Or at least look good enough that you know he could have won if the team in front of him was a notch better. Have not seen either.
These coaching jobs should inherently only last a few years, unless we’re getting top tier performance consistently thru the guy’s tenure. Given how poor the goalie situation has been all the way back to Roloson… yikes. I mean Talbot had one good season and then fell apart. Dubnyk needed to find his game elsewhere.
[Updated on: Fri, 20 October 2023 12:30]
Illegitimi non carborundum.
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RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
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| Kr55 wrote on Fri, 20 October 2023 12:06 |
| RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 20 October 2023 07:52 |
Go ahead, fire Schwartz if people want. Unless you expect the goalies to get shut outs ever game, it won't make a damn bit of difference. The team is flat out not playing well and their effort level from McD down is garbage.
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There are definitely lots of other things wrong with this team. Not sure that is an excuse to let this guy with 100 lives stick around and oversee every goalie we have regress though. Just makes no sense for him to survive 3 GM's and half a dozen coaches while getting only negative results. Only goalie that survived him was a 39 year old Mike Smith that was completely set in his ways.
Schwartz is just becoming a shining example of how unserious this org is at doing the best they can in every aspect to try to win.
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If people want to make him a scape goat, then sure go for it. I won't lose any sleep.
I watch the Oilers and I see a puck go in corner, the Oilers dman is first too it and AHL/NHL tweeners on the other team come out with the puck over and over again. Then they fire it out to the slot to an open guy and he rips it top corner. If the defender does his job, gets the puck and realizes that this isn't U11 hockey, you might have to try a little to keep possession, the play never happens. But if you want to point the finger at Schwartz, then sure. Go ahead.
Or they don't rim the puck and give up 2-0 breakaways. Or they tie up a stick in front instead letting a forward stand there and tip it in. Or on the PP they don't try to pass through a guy and give up an odd man rush. Or they hustle back on the back check instead of dogging it and let the guy walk down the slot unchecked. Or they don't have the puck on their stick on a routine play, fumble it then fire a pass on the tape of the opposition to let him walk in.
But I get. Schwartz has been here a long time. People need someone to blame other than their fav players so if firing the goalie coach makes people feel better, have at it. I don't think it helps what their problems right now are which is mostly effort but maybe it's worth a shot.
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Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| nullterm wrote on Fri, 20 October 2023 12:26 |
I don’t expect a goalie to win us every game. But you would expect a goalie to on occasion stand on his head and win a game despite the rest of the team playing poorly. Or at least look good enough that you know he could have won if the team in front of him was a notch better. Have not seen either.
These coaching jobs should inherently only last a few years, unless we’re getting top tier performance consistently thru the guy’s tenure. Given how poor the goalie situation has been all the way back to Roloson… yikes. I mean Talbot had one good season and then fell apart. Dubnyk needed to find his game elsewhere.
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I'm not that versed in how long goalie coaches survive, but I think we used to fire ones for underperforming back in the day. Dubs seeing his performance crater triggered us to fire the last guy.
Once in a while you hear about a goalie coach with a long tenure, like the guy Nashville had, when Nashville seemed to be a goalie factory pumping out goalie after goalie. That guy even was a part of kicking Dubs in the butt about all his bad habits which was part of his half year process to get his game back together.
Guess could do more research to see if there are other coaches that just linger around through a decade of seeing 95% of goalies all regress on the same team. Maybe some other teams are as complacent as us.
One thing is clear, this org doesn't have a clue about goaltending still. That Campbell contract could hurt for quite a while and almost all goalie analytics were flashing caution for him before we signed him, historically poor high danger sav%. Skinner's confidence looks like it's just staying bottomed out too after a whole summer with the power of the Schwartz.
[Updated on: Fri, 20 October 2023 13:39]
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton
No Cups
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You're right, he's been here for a long time. That's where it ends though as every goalie we've had under his tenure has declined over their time here. Not simply 'not improved' but have actively regressed, some of them greatly.
If everything you do over a decade makes your business worse off, you shouldn't be there anymore.
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g2k
Messages: 2840
Registered: January 2003
Location: The Hood
2 Cups
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Gregor would argue that Skinner wasn’t expected to become anything and DS made him into something. I guess that’s possible. Assuming Skinner would not have improved without DS. Can’t think of any other goalie he improved. Gregor is pro Schwartz though. Or it’s just one of his “things” where he’s trying to be the smartest in the room when the masses are leaning the other way. He has told the microphone many many times to stop thinking about Nurses contract when watching him. I have. And I still have close to the same level of frustration.
#firebob #screwitjustselltheteam #ownerisacreep
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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Gregor is pro whatever he's told to be in favor of until he's told not to be in favor of it. This isn't a unique trait among media. Dustin Schwartz may not be the problem, but I know he's not the solution. Personally I wouldn't fire him because I don't think there's a goalie coach on the planet that could make a 'tender look good playing behind the defenses we've watched for the last 5, 10, 20 years.
[Updated on: Sat, 21 October 2023 10:22]
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| CrusaderPi wrote on Sat, 21 October 2023 10:19 |
Gregor is pro whatever he's told to be in favor of until he's told not to be in favor of it. This isn't a unique trait among media. Dustin Schwartz may not be the problem, but I know he's not the solution. Personally I wouldn't fire him because I don't think there's a goalie coach on the planet that could make a 'tender look good playing behind the defenses we've watched for the last 5, 10, 20 years.
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Gregor just likes to argue and be disagreeable with fans. Works well to drive social media engagement. Spector is all about it as well.
Firing Schwartz probably would be a cheap attempt to buy time and make fans happy to distract them from the larger problems with the team. Same with firing Woodcroft. The wise thing to want is probably a new GM before anyone else is fired. In Brad Holland we trust...
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA
2 Cups
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Head coaches, assistant coaches turn over regularly due to lack of meaningful results or even just for a new voice, new strategy.
Somehow Dustin Schwartz has been with this organization since 2009.
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Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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This has to be a record, no?
GM's Schwartz has been under:
Craig MacTavish
Peter Chiarelli
Keith Gretzky (interim)
Ken Holland
Coaches Schwartz has been under:
Dallas Eakins
Todd Nelson
Todd McLellan
Ken Hitchcock
Dave Tippett
Jay Woodcroft
Kris Knoblauch
Schwartz is an absolute legend. 4 GM's (soon to be 5) and 7 head coaches. And a load of goalies that saw nothing but regression under him and Mike Smith.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 11:55 |
This has to be a record, no?
GM's Schwartz has been under:
Craig MacTavish
Peter Chiarelli
Keith Gretzky (interim)
Ken Holland
Coaches Schwartz has been under:
Dallas Eakins
Todd Nelson
Todd McLellan
Ken Hitchcock
Dave Tippett
Jay Woodcroft
Kris Knoblauch
Schwartz is an absolute legend. 4 GM's (soon to be 5) and 7 head coaches. And a load of goalies that saw nothing but regression under him and Mike Smith.
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How many GMs and coaches did Buchberger see? He was a real survivor too. I believe Gulutzan is now on his 4th head coach too.
I think it's another symptom of the rot in the Oilers organization that their coach never really has a free hand to bring in his people. You do wonder if there's some different lines of reporting within the coaching staff as a result.
Has to be weird for Knoblauch that he gets no say in his staff to this point (although to be fair, it might be harder to recruit a whole new group mid-season).
Maybe there's a lack of decent goalie coaches out there, so challenging to find a replacement who's not going to be worse yet?
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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Stop noticing things you two. The team and their media has told us Dustin isn't the problem. Move on already.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC
1 Cup
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| Adam wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 10:59 |
| Kr55 wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 11:55 |
This has to be a record, no?
GM's Schwartz has been under:
Craig MacTavish
Peter Chiarelli
Keith Gretzky (interim)
Ken Holland
Coaches Schwartz has been under:
Dallas Eakins
Todd Nelson
Todd McLellan
Ken Hitchcock
Dave Tippett
Jay Woodcroft
Kris Knoblauch
Schwartz is an absolute legend. 4 GM's (soon to be 5) and 7 head coaches. And a load of goalies that saw nothing but regression under him and Mike Smith.
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How many GMs and coaches did Buchberger see? He was a real survivor too. I believe Gulutzan is now on his 4th head coach too.
I think it's another symptom of the rot in the Oilers organization that their coach never really has a free hand to bring in his people. You do wonder if there's some different lines of reporting within the coaching staff as a result.
Has to be weird for Knoblauch that he gets no say in his staff to this point (although to be fair, it might be harder to recruit a whole new group mid-season).
Maybe there's a lack of decent goalie coaches out there, so challenging to find a replacement who's not going to be worse yet?
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Knoblauch’s assistant choice wasn’t available until the summer so Coffey was drafted into the role against his wishes.
Illegitimi non carborundum.
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Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| nullterm wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 15:27 |
Knoblauch’s assistant choice wasn’t available until the summer so Coffey was drafted into the role against his wishes.
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Yeah, I watched that trainwreck of an interview.
I'm just not sure that the only possible option for assistant coach was the team's Special Advisor to the Owner and Chairman (which is a weird title by the way. Is Coffey a chairman? or is he advising a chairman?)
Surely there must be guys available who've coached at a level higher than Bantam (and who haven't got tossed from the league for calling kids racial slurs).
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC
1 Cup
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| Adam wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 15:32 |
| nullterm wrote on Wed, 15 November 2023 15:27 |
Knoblauch’s assistant choice wasn’t available until the summer so Coffey was drafted into the role against his wishes.
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Yeah, I watched that trainwreck of an interview.
I'm just not sure that the only possible option for assistant coach was the team's Special Advisor to the Owner and Chairman (which is a weird title by the way. Is Coffey a chairman? or is he advising a chairman?)
Surely there must be guys available who've coached at a level higher than Bantam (and who haven't got tossed from the league for calling kids racial slurs).
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He hung up when he looked at the caller ID and it said “Oilers”
Illegitimi non carborundum.
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Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton
No Cups
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ok guys, let's get Coffey back to the suite and I'll do the job.
I would do that for you.
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inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...
2 Cups
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| Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 16 November 2023 14:13 |
ok guys, let's get Coffey back to the suite and I'll do the job.
I would do that for you.
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I support this. Can I use your 2 free team tickets?
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Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton
No Cups
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I think that's only fair.
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