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Re: Draisatl Extension [message #825592 is a reply to message #825590 ]	Thu, 28 September 2023 11:37

Kr55
Messages: 12880
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 28 September 2023 11:12

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 28 September 2023 10:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 28 September 2023 10:09

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 25 September 2023 16:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 September 2023 16:03

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 25 September 2023 15:57

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 September 2023 15:57

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 25 September 2023 15:48

It’s funny reading a post asserting that Vegas just had the breaks. They were the top team in the conference, and played in 4 out of the last 6 western finals. They never drafted 1st overall, started with a starless expansion draft just 6 years ago, and any stars they do have were acquired with savy resource management as opposed to a lottery. They did it in the cap era where they can’t simply outspend their problems. Their cup is possibly the most luckless cup in NHL history.

Colorado and Tampa Bay are savy organizations. But they had some lottery luck too. Vegas had none of that. If the best luck they had was that their goalies kept getting injured…well…

I think a person is 100% completely delusional if you don't think breaks play a factor in the outcome of games or series.

What about good management?

Vegas signed Lehner to be their guy. He's signed for 2 more years at 5 mill. Lucky for them, he got hurt. You trying to tell me that good management made that happen? Come on.

No, good management is having 4 goalies better than what your conference finals opponent has. Plus a fifth guy I thought looked really good. You're letting the tail wag the dog here.

If Lehner doesn't get hurt, they wouldn't have went out and brought in the extra guys nor could they have afforded them. So you can sit there and say it was "good management" but the injury forced them to bring in way more guys than they normally would have. PLUS, the fact they brought in so many, says they didn't have a clue which one would be the best.

Lehner went down, so they had Thompson who was inexperienced and Brossoit. Then they brought in Hill as cover. Thompson went down. Then they were so confident in Brossoit and Hill, plus the rest of their organizational depth, they bought in Quick as additional cover. So good management my ass.

If you are such a good manager, then you should know the guys you have in the system can do the job so acquiring Quick to sit in the pressbox shouldn't have been necessary. If Brossoit doesn't get hurt, Hill does not play. He was made the starter at the end of the season and into the playoffs and didn't play a game in the playoffs until Brossoit went down. Brossoit was just mediocre in the first series and not great in the Oilers. It was fortunate that Hill played out of his mind for 6 weeks. If that "good management" knew he could do that, he would have started the playoffs. That's a fact man.

Basically it's the kind of luck where a Fernando Pisani ends up scoring 14 goals and 5 game winners in 1 playoff year.

Do we consider that luck? Or just management skill, or just stuff you expect to happen because management is so good at their job?

Almost everything worked in Vegas's favor that playoffs. Every goalie they played against collapsed. Perros licked their butts in a way that had the whole hockey word confused, which could not have ended up worse for us with Broberg just collapsing replacing Nurse, and Pietro had a huge game to finish the series. Their 5th string goalie played like a Conn Smythe winner. Stone on LTIR to cap scam (maybe this is skill) and the guy they used his cap space on also ends up playing the best hockey of his entire career. Just magic on top of magic. Could argue they were due, and for sure it is to the benefit of the NHL to finally throw Vegas some love after some weird playoff events in the past that we could call bad luck.

Great example with Pisani.

Was it good management that Pisani went off in 06? Hell no. He got hot at that time and it never happened again. If a person wants to say it was good management for having Hill on the team in the first place. I guess I can squint and say sure but like I said, if Lehner doesn't get hurt, that same "good management" wouldn't have had him there. That same "good management" didn't think Hill was good enough to be the starter to end off the season and go into the playoffs. A chain of events happened to get him into the line up and he got hot at the right time. Good for Vegas.

Will say this about Vegas, like what Pi is saying to some degree (although I think he enjoys showering Vegas with extra praise as a way to take shots at the Oilers and anyone that thinks the Oilers have done a good job). Vegas has done almost everything you could hope for a team to do in order to give themselves a good shot every year. They have made a number of massive blockbuster trades. They have pulled in a number of high profile UFA's who pass the eye test, but most also pass the nerdy analytics test too. They aren't pulling in Lucic's. They've pulled in players that are elite by most metrics you can look at. Some of the reason is their taxes of course, and their location, so some luck involved there as well, but it is what it is. They stack depth and have properly managed their cap to be able to do so. Managed assets very well. They even go the extra mile and scam the cap with LTIR space, wish we had the balls to do it too.

I can't really think of an area that Vegas has not tried to improve to the best of their ability. The org has been wheeling and dealing since before their first draft, scamming the cap, whining to the league. Everything. They still needed some luck to finally win (we almost did the same thing with Roli and playing crap goalie after crap goalie in 2006, until we ran into Ward and decided to kill our own goalie), but that's how it is for most cup winners. Keep giving yourself a shot and maybe the stars finally align for you. Although Perros' garbage still pisses me off.

We cannot say the same at all about the Oilers, that they have done everything possible to improve. We have taken lucky high picks for granted for years and valued friendships over performance in management forever. Maybe that's finally changing, but we had to waste almost a decade of a generational talents career to finally get serious.

[Updated on: Thu, 28 September 2023 11:42]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Draisatl Extension	By: Rutuu on Thu, 21 September 2023 00:38
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: inverno76 on Mon, 25 September 2023 13:13
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: RDOilerfan on Mon, 25 September 2023 15:07
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: smyth260 on Mon, 25 September 2023 15:48
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Dragon_Matt on Mon, 25 September 2023 15:57
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: RDOilerfan on Mon, 25 September 2023 16:00
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: smyth260 on Mon, 25 September 2023 16:08
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Dragon_Matt on Wed, 27 September 2023 13:38
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: smyth260 on Wed, 27 September 2023 14:48
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Dragon_Matt on Wed, 27 September 2023 20:44
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: RDOilerfan on Mon, 25 September 2023 15:57
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: CrusaderPi on Mon, 25 September 2023 15:57
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: RDOilerfan on Mon, 25 September 2023 16:03
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: CrusaderPi on Mon, 25 September 2023 16:14
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 28 September 2023 10:09
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Kr55 on Thu, 28 September 2023 10:30
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 28 September 2023 11:12
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Kr55 on Thu, 28 September 2023 11:37
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 03 October 2023 11:08
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Kr55 on Tue, 03 October 2023 11:24
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 28 September 2023 11:10
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 28 September 2023 11:26
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Adam on Thu, 28 September 2023 12:45
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 28 September 2023 13:03
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Adam on Thu, 28 September 2023 13:28
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 28 September 2023 13:36
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 28 September 2023 13:58
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 28 September 2023 15:54
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: inverno76 on Mon, 02 October 2023 10:30
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Dragon_Matt on Tue, 03 October 2023 09:24
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: inverno76 on Wed, 11 October 2023 09:16
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Kr55 on Wed, 11 October 2023 09:17
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Dragon_Matt on Wed, 11 October 2023 09:24
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: CrusaderPi on Mon, 25 September 2023 15:57
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: smyth260 on Mon, 25 September 2023 16:11
Re: Draisatl Extension	By: Kr55 on Thu, 28 September 2023 09:44

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