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2023 Training Camp [message #825472]	Wed, 20 September 2023 10:11

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Camp starting up. Couple pieces of arguably sad news to start :(

Jason Gregor @JasonGregor
Ekholm has a hip flexor. Won’t start camp.

Jason Gregor @JasonGregor
Skinner worked with Dustin Schwartz and Tristan Jarry this off-season.

Says he feels more comfortable entering this year as he knows what to expect after playing a full NHL season.

Feels he is still growing as a player and looks forward to leaning more. #Oilers

Gagner had hip surgery and isn't expected to play any pre-season games. Likely to just start in Bakersfield, so I guess he's just a mentor guy now.

Salary cap space: $0 ($390,793 over the cap)

GM: Ken Holland

Head coach: Jay Woodcroft

Assistant coaches: Glen Gulutzan, Dave Manson, Mark Stuart, Dustin Schwartz.

Unsigned players: None.

Key new additions: Connor Brown.

PTOs: Brandon Sutter, Sam Gagner, Adam Erne.

Camp roster from Gregor:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6eq-dCa8AA_IUg?format=jpg&name=medium

[Updated on: Wed, 20 September 2023 10:18]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825473 is a reply to message #825472 ]	Wed, 20 September 2023 10:32

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

That's too bad about Gagner. It means he's not really got any chance of making the team for now. I wonder if he starts on an AHL contract when he's healthy?

With no money to spend, Sutter and Erne may be fighting an uphill battle.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825475 is a reply to message #825473 ]	Wed, 20 September 2023 10:39

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

I still don't understand why the season isn't starting now, but whatever. Hockey is almost back. If I can avoid accidentally watching preseason hockey this will all be worth it.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825478 is a reply to message #825472 ]	Wed, 20 September 2023 11:42

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Not starting the preseason with Ekholm is a-okay in my books. The guy does not need to play many pre-season games. I would our stars play the minimum, not NFL'esque, but definitely not over doing it.

The season is a long grind.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825479 is a reply to message #825478 ]	Wed, 20 September 2023 12:17

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I am perfectly fine if the main players only play the bare min of games just to make sure they have their hands back at game speed. I get fans have to pay for the preseason but the goal is to win the cup. The last thing the Oilers need is some PTO or AHLer taking runs at the Oilers stars or hacking at their hands to get noticed.

I would be playing Sutter A TON! On paper he's exactly what the Oilers need as a 4C. Has some size, right handed, skates decent, can kill penalties, defensively responsible, has enough offense for the bottom 6, good on draws, has experience, works and plays hard. The question is what is he like conditioning wise after dealing with long Covid. He would make the league min if signed.

The Oilers need 9-10 mins tops a night from him. If he can do that, he's the perfect fit but it's probably a long shot. What might happen is he gets 2 way contract to play some games in the AHL and see where he's at and then in a month or so, if things are going well, he gets a call.

[Updated on: Wed, 20 September 2023 13:20]

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825481 is a reply to message #825478 ]	Wed, 20 September 2023 12:32

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 20 September 2023 11:42

Not starting the preseason with Ekholm is a-okay in my books. The guy does not need to play many pre-season games. I would our stars play the minimum, not NFL'esque, but definitely not over doing it.

The season is a long grind.

Just hope it's nothing that's gonna bug him. Pre-season for sure I'd like to be kept to a minimum. Too bad he can't participate with the team in camp and practices though to get rolling yet. Need him badly this year.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825482 is a reply to message #825481 ]	Wed, 20 September 2023 12:41

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 20 September 2023 12:32

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 20 September 2023 11:42

Not starting the preseason with Ekholm is a-okay in my books. The guy does not need to play many pre-season games. I would our stars play the minimum, not NFL'esque, but definitely not over doing it.

The season is a long grind.

Just hope it's nothing that's gonna bug him. Pre-season for sure I'd like to be kept to a minimum. Too bad he can't participate with the team in camp and practices though to get rolling yet. Need him badly this year.

Gregor reported according to Ekholm that it's just a maintenance thing. They are being cautious with it given there is time with camp barely starting and he would play if it was regular season.

No need for him to be in camp slogging it out with invited, junior players and AHLers. His spot is pretty secure.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825483 is a reply to message #825472 ]	Wed, 20 September 2023 14:19

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Sounds like a revolution of playing zone defense instead of man on man is coming to the Oilers.

Ryan Rishaug @TSNRyanRishaug

Kane alludes to some changes in NZ and DZ systems being implemented this season. Didn’t get into detail, but talked about the need to grab those early on to ensure a good start

@JasonGregor

“Toughest transition of my life so far (laughs). It has been great getting to spend three months together,” Ekholm on switching from man-to-man to zone defense at home now that he and his wife have three kids

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825484 is a reply to message #825483 ]	Wed, 20 September 2023 14:45

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 20 September 2023 14:19

Sounds like a revolution of playing zone defense instead of man on man is coming to the Oilers.

Ryan Rishaug @TSNRyanRishaug

Kane alludes to some changes in NZ and DZ systems being implemented this season. Didn’t get into detail, but talked about the need to grab those early on to ensure a good start

@JasonGregor

“Toughest transition of my life so far (laughs). It has been great getting to spend three months together,” Ekholm on switching from man-to-man to zone defense at home now that he and his wife have three kids

Ok boys, grab a knees, we're making some changes. We're going to move away from a passive man D system and use something that's a little more high energy. We're going to establish large, overlapping zones of control and when the puck is in your zone of of control you're going to go to puck. Think of the defense like you'd think of bees pestering the opponent. I call it 'the swarm'!

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825485 is a reply to message #825484 ]	Wed, 20 September 2023 14:54

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

so this is where Eakins picked it up.

https://www.coachesclipboard.net/SwarmDefense.html

All we have to do is stop the other team from being able to dribble and we have an advantage!

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825488 is a reply to message #825484 ]	Wed, 20 September 2023 18:41

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 20 September 2023 14:45

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 20 September 2023 14:19

Sounds like a revolution of playing zone defense instead of man on man is coming to the Oilers.

Ryan Rishaug @TSNRyanRishaug

Kane alludes to some changes in NZ and DZ systems being implemented this season. Didn’t get into detail, but talked about the need to grab those early on to ensure a good start

@JasonGregor

“Toughest transition of my life so far (laughs). It has been great getting to spend three months together,” Ekholm on switching from man-to-man to zone defense at home now that he and his wife have three kids

Ok boys, grab a knees, we're making some changes. We're going to move away from a passive man D system and use something that's a little more high energy. We're going to establish large, overlapping zones of control and when the puck is in your zone of of control you're going to go to puck. Think of the defense like you'd think of bees pestering the opponent. I call it 'the swarm'!

Let's just go from one extreme to the other. From our D chasing players from the front of our net to the blue line with no forward at all aware of what is happening, to a bunch of guys just standing straight up in their designated box of ice in our zone and other teams can just skate through the gaps like our players are pylons.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825516 is a reply to message #825483 ]	Sat, 23 September 2023 12:53

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 20 September 2023 13:19

Sounds like a revolution of playing zone defense instead of man on man is coming to the Oilers.

Ryan Rishaug @TSNRyanRishaug

Kane alludes to some changes in NZ and DZ systems being implemented this season. Didn’t get into detail, but talked about the need to grab those early on to ensure a good start

@JasonGregor

“Toughest transition of my life so far (laughs). It has been great getting to spend three months together,” Ekholm on switching from man-to-man to zone defense at home now that he and his wife have three kids

This will make a difference IMHO.. man-to-man works if you have the right people with the requisite skill sets, speed, agility, and savvy.. but its a more complex system.. and it can turn into a fire drill (as we saw last year) when any of those ingredients are missing.. even if one guy misses an assignment it can produce a Grade AA chance against.. its a defensive strategy with more inherent risk of a GA .. but might reduce your breakout/transition ability for offence.. risk vs reward.. we have offence.. we need reduction in GA

A good Zone defence is simpler.. less chance for blown assignments.. and the players aren't required to have advanced agility, speed, mobility chasing guys around the D-zone.. A good Zone coverage system is a thing of beauty..

The best example of a zone defence IMHO is in Box Lacrosse.. after a turnover in the O-zone.. the whole team transitions to their D-zone to set up Zone coverage in a 5 man box.. the ball can move, and be passed, so quickly in lacrosse that man-to-man coverage makes little sense..

For those not familiar with lacrosse, they will have complete 5 man units for offensive zone, and defensive zone .. once they lose the ball the whole offensive unit will come off and be replaced by the D-unit.. there are also occasional chances created during transition where a couple d-unit players will get ball possession and race down the floor to beat the other team's O/D transition for an odd man chance for ..

In general though once the 5 man box is set up, its like a fortress, you can't get in for a shot without getting absolutely hammered.. as you'd expect one of the main O-team strategies is to move a D-player out of the zone box in order to open a space for a forward to slip in behind him for a pass and shot.. either by faking a rush in to it (moving a D-man towards you to engage), then pass in to the vacated space behind, or another O-player setting a hard pick on a D-player (which would normally be a penalty in hockey).
If the offense has a player with an exceptional snipe shot, the D-unit will focus on him and may move out of the box to prevent a shot.. but that leaves a hole behind him.. and thus goes the battle.. 👍🏻
The Defense will also get out of the box if there is a shot that misses, rebound, and/or a loose ball created .. then its a focus on ball retrieval.. similar to hockey.

I recently watched the Mann Cup here in New Westminster at historic Queen Park arena a couple weeks ago.. this zone system was executed to absolute perfection by both teams.. it was a total war.. sadly my Salmonbellies would lose to the Ontario team, Six Nations Chiefs.. 😪

I think more of a zone set up for the Oilers may suit the their player's skill set much better.. but whatever they decide on.. I hope not to see D. Nurse chasing forwards from behind his net up to his blue line anymore.. and guys like Foegle having to cover the front of the net in his vacated space..

I'll guess a zone-type defensive strategy may save a few TV screens of Oiler fans during the season.. shoes hitting screens are not generally covered by warranty (maybe Costco?) 🙂

[Updated on: Sat, 23 September 2023 13:36]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825521 is a reply to message #825472 ]	Sun, 24 September 2023 17:51

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

No longer worried about goaltending after hearing Campbell spent all summer with Manny Legace.

Skinner + Schwartz
Campbell + Legace

We are set

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825528 is a reply to message #825472 ]	Mon, 25 September 2023 12:26

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Akey got his game, then got his ticket back to junior. Sent to Barrie today.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825696 is a reply to message #825472 ]	Tue, 03 October 2023 15:08

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Mark Spector🇨🇦🇺🇦 @SportsnetSpec

We have EDM Oilers transactions:

Loaned to Bakersfield:
Xavier Bourgault (F)
James Hamblin (F)

Placed on waivers for the purpose of assignment:
Seth Griffith (F)

Bourgault looked pretty good. Really liked that 1-time release off the Broberg pass last game. Need all the good shooters we can get. Hopefully he takes off in the AHL this year.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825761 is a reply to message #825472 ]	Sun, 08 October 2023 12:22

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Was not expecting Lavoie and Gleason to be out

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
#Oilers roster moves

Forwards Raphael Lavoie & Lane Pederson & defenceman Ben Gleason have been placed on waivers.

#LetsGoOilers

Figured Gleason made it easier to let Broberg build his game up more in the AHL since he didn't been to go through waivers. Lavoie looked pretty good too. Would be unfortunate if he got claimed.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825762 is a reply to message #825761 ]	Sun, 08 October 2023 13:00

NetBOG
Messages: 2948
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 08 October 2023 12:22

Was not expecting Lavoie and Gleason to be out

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
#Oilers roster moves

Forwards Raphael Lavoie & Lane Pederson & defenceman Ben Gleason have been placed on waivers.

#LetsGoOilers

Figured Gleason made it easier to let Broberg build his game up more in the AHL since he didn't been to go through waivers. Lavoie looked pretty good too. Would be unfortunate if he got claimed.

Remember, Oilers can only keep 22 players to be cap compliant. Just 1 extra D and 1extra forward. My guess is Niemo and Erne.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825763 is a reply to message #825761 ]	Sun, 08 October 2023 13:16

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

I thought Lavoie did enough to earn a spot, but I’m just an armchair GM. It would be nice to see what we have there as a NHL player, but I’m guessing Woody doesn’t want Broberg, Holloway and another raw player in the lineup at the same time.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825765 is a reply to message #825762 ]	Sun, 08 October 2023 14:28

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

NetBOG wrote on Sun, 08 October 2023 13:00

Kr55 wrote on Sun, 08 October 2023 12:22

Was not expecting Lavoie and Gleason to be out

Edmonton Oilers @EdmontonOilers
#Oilers roster moves

Forwards Raphael Lavoie & Lane Pederson & defenceman Ben Gleason have been placed on waivers.

#LetsGoOilers

Figured Gleason made it easier to let Broberg build his game up more in the AHL since he didn't been to go through waivers. Lavoie looked pretty good too. Would be unfortunate if he got claimed.

Remember, Oilers can only keep 22 players to be cap compliant. Just 1 extra D and 1extra forward. My guess is Niemo and Erne.

Missed that Niemelainen is hurt. So we can't move him to the AHL. May be why Gleason is being waived.

Looked at capfriend just now, we have to do 21 players, don't we? I think we are over the cap with 22. So may end up with 12 forwards and 7 D. 7th being the injured Niemo we can't move to the AHL until he's healthy.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/H5Ax4wLi7D7Elausl4/giphy.gif

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825768 is a reply to message #825765 ]	Mon, 09 October 2023 10:12

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

They should have waived Janmark. He’s probably the worst regular and would not get claimed at 1M. Have a feeling somebody will claim Lavoie.

Clean house or bust

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825769 is a reply to message #825472 ]	Mon, 09 October 2023 17:46

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Pederson
Lavoie
Gleason

ALL clear.. guess Lavoie isn't thought of that highly by even Montreal..

His problem is his boots.. speed and agility is below it will need to be to stay in the play up in the NHL..

Going to be making some pretty low $ in the AHL ..

Update:

These are waiver claims from yesterday.. Greer might be a good claim by Flambes..

Lassi Thomson was claimed on waivers by the Ottawa Senators after being placed on them by the Anaheim Ducks

Ivan Prosvetov was claimed on waivers by the Colorado Avalanche after being placed on them by the Arizona Coyotes

John Ludvig was claimed on waivers by the Pittsburgh Penguins after being placed on them by the Florida Panthers

AJ Greer was claimed on waivers by the Calgary Flames after being placed on them by the Boston Bruins

[Updated on: Mon, 09 October 2023 18:03]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825770 is a reply to message #825769 ]	Mon, 09 October 2023 18:00

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

4 of 7 experts on TSN picked the Oilers to win the cup this year.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825773 is a reply to message #825770 ]	Mon, 09 October 2023 20:40

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

The absolute melting down some fans did about Lavoie being on waivers was both comical and sad. I am all for keeping prospects like him in the system. Maybe he can become a player some day but the fact is, he's only got 1/2 an OK AHL season but his overall AHL numbers don't jump off the page. There is questions about his NHL footspeed and his compete yet based on the reaction, you'd think they waived McD yesterday.

The even more comical part was the suggestion it was best to waive Janmark so Lavoie could stay. I know Janmark isn't a pull you out of your seat player but he's a legit NHL player capable of scoring 8-10 goals, be on your PK, plays multiple positions and plays a predictable, reliable level of bottom 6 hockey. Lavoie might one day be good but he could also be a teammate of Benson in 2 years for all anyone knows.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825774 is a reply to message #825773 ]	Mon, 09 October 2023 20:55

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:40

The absolute melting down some fans did about Lavoie being on waivers was both comical and sad. I am all for keeping prospects like him in the system. Maybe he can become a player some day but the fact is, he's only got 1/2 an OK AHL season but his overall AHL numbers don't jump off the page. There is questions about his NHL footspeed and his compete yet based on the reaction, you'd think they waived McD yesterday.

The even more comical part was the suggestion it was best to waive Janmark so Lavoie could stay. I know Janmark isn't a pull you out of your seat player but he's a legit NHL player capable of scoring 8-10 goals, be on your PK, plays multiple positions and plays a predictable, reliable level of bottom 6 hockey. Lavoie might one day be good but he could also be a teammate of Benson in 2 years for all anyone knows.

Think most of the annoyance is how our cap management put us in a situation of a 21 man roster, and 1 injury to a plug in pre-season forced us to risk waving some of the remaining useful players we have available if there are injuries.

Lucky so many other teams have cap issues, but we're up there as one of the most restricted on anything we can do now.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825775 is a reply to message #825773 ]	Mon, 09 October 2023 20:55

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:40

The absolute melting down some fans did about Lavoie being on waivers was both comical and sad. I am all for keeping prospects like him in the system. Maybe he can become a player some day but the fact is, he's only got 1/2 an OK AHL season but his overall AHL numbers don't jump off the page. There is questions about his NHL footspeed and his compete yet based on the reaction, you'd think they waived McD yesterday.

The even more comical part was the suggestion it was best to waive Janmark so Lavoie could stay. I know Janmark isn't a pull you out of your seat player but he's a legit NHL player capable of scoring 8-10 goals, be on your PK, plays multiple positions and plays a predictable, reliable level of bottom 6 hockey. Lavoie might one day be good but he could also be a teammate of Benson in 2 years for all anyone knows.

If it weren’t for an injury I think we would have saw Lavoie stick around for opening night. After Bernard-Docker passed through waivers I was not worried about any of our guys, including Janmark.

We will never know what we have in our prospects until we give them an opportunity. A half of a great backend to his AHL season, his salary and a decent training camp where he seemed to gain traction as it went on was good enough for me.

Lavoie’s compete was his pre-draft Achilles heal that kept him out of the 1st round. Haven’t really heard much about that since he turned pro.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825777 is a reply to message #825775 ]	Mon, 09 October 2023 21:27

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:40

The absolute melting down some fans did about Lavoie being on waivers was both comical and sad. I am all for keeping prospects like him in the system. Maybe he can become a player some day but the fact is, he's only got 1/2 an OK AHL season but his overall AHL numbers don't jump off the page. There is questions about his NHL footspeed and his compete yet based on the reaction, you'd think they waived McD yesterday.

The even more comical part was the suggestion it was best to waive Janmark so Lavoie could stay. I know Janmark isn't a pull you out of your seat player but he's a legit NHL player capable of scoring 8-10 goals, be on your PK, plays multiple positions and plays a predictable, reliable level of bottom 6 hockey. Lavoie might one day be good but he could also be a teammate of Benson in 2 years for all anyone knows.

If it weren’t for an injury I think we would have saw Lavoie stick around for opening night. After Bernard-Docker passed through waivers I was not worried about any of our guys, including Janmark.

We will never know what we have in our prospects until we give them an opportunity. A half of a great backend to his AHL season, his salary and a decent training camp where he seemed to gain traction as it went on was good enough for me.

Lavoie’s compete was his pre-draft Achilles heal that kept him out of the 1st round. Haven’t really heard much about that since he turned pro.

I agree. Niemelainen going down with some minor injury so they can't waive him put a wrench into thing. I just found it a little over the top the outcry over a guy who's never played a NHL game yet.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825778 is a reply to message #825774 ]	Mon, 09 October 2023 21:31

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:40

The absolute melting down some fans did about Lavoie being on waivers was both comical and sad. I am all for keeping prospects like him in the system. Maybe he can become a player some day but the fact is, he's only got 1/2 an OK AHL season but his overall AHL numbers don't jump off the page. There is questions about his NHL footspeed and his compete yet based on the reaction, you'd think they waived McD yesterday.

The even more comical part was the suggestion it was best to waive Janmark so Lavoie could stay. I know Janmark isn't a pull you out of your seat player but he's a legit NHL player capable of scoring 8-10 goals, be on your PK, plays multiple positions and plays a predictable, reliable level of bottom 6 hockey. Lavoie might one day be good but he could also be a teammate of Benson in 2 years for all anyone knows.

Think most of the annoyance is how our cap management put us in a situation of a 21 man roster, and 1 injury to a plug in pre-season forced us to risk waving some of the remaining useful players we have available if there are injuries.

Lucky so many other teams have cap issues, but we're up there as one of the most restricted on anything we can do now.

Things are definitely very tight around the league.

Just my opinion but Lavoie taking that extra 100K probably cost him a spot. The facts are he hasn't proven anything, never played a single NHL game, had a mediocre camp, only has 1/2 a season of decent AHl play under his belt and close too 2/3 of the NHL is either on LTIR or have their own cap problems. So a guy making an extra 100K when he is unproven and has questions marks, isn't worth the gamble.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825782 is a reply to message #825774 ]	Tue, 10 October 2023 11:30

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:40

The absolute melting down some fans did about Lavoie being on waivers was both comical and sad. I am all for keeping prospects like him in the system. Maybe he can become a player some day but the fact is, he's only got 1/2 an OK AHL season but his overall AHL numbers don't jump off the page. There is questions about his NHL footspeed and his compete yet based on the reaction, you'd think they waived McD yesterday.

The even more comical part was the suggestion it was best to waive Janmark so Lavoie could stay. I know Janmark isn't a pull you out of your seat player but he's a legit NHL player capable of scoring 8-10 goals, be on your PK, plays multiple positions and plays a predictable, reliable level of bottom 6 hockey. Lavoie might one day be good but he could also be a teammate of Benson in 2 years for all anyone knows.

Think most of the annoyance is how our cap management put us in a situation of a 21 man roster, and 1 injury to a plug in pre-season forced us to risk waving some of the remaining useful players we have available if there are injuries.

Lucky so many other teams have cap issues, but we're up there as one of the most restricted on anything we can do now.

It's not like the Oilers decisions on waivers have ever burned them before, right? It has only been a couple of years since the Oilers put themselves in a tough position goalie-wise because they made an error on waivers.

In the end, it all works out okay for the Oilers. It is interesting to see the difference though between how the Oilers work, and how Vegas and Tampa work, as those teams work to maximize their cap space for the year with some paper transactions, just as the season starts.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825783 is a reply to message #825782 ]	Tue, 10 October 2023 11:35

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

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Adam wrote on Tue, 10 October 2023 11:30

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:40

The absolute melting down some fans did about Lavoie being on waivers was both comical and sad. I am all for keeping prospects like him in the system. Maybe he can become a player some day but the fact is, he's only got 1/2 an OK AHL season but his overall AHL numbers don't jump off the page. There is questions about his NHL footspeed and his compete yet based on the reaction, you'd think they waived McD yesterday.

The even more comical part was the suggestion it was best to waive Janmark so Lavoie could stay. I know Janmark isn't a pull you out of your seat player but he's a legit NHL player capable of scoring 8-10 goals, be on your PK, plays multiple positions and plays a predictable, reliable level of bottom 6 hockey. Lavoie might one day be good but he could also be a teammate of Benson in 2 years for all anyone knows.

Think most of the annoyance is how our cap management put us in a situation of a 21 man roster, and 1 injury to a plug in pre-season forced us to risk waving some of the remaining useful players we have available if there are injuries.

Lucky so many other teams have cap issues, but we're up there as one of the most restricted on anything we can do now.

It's not like the Oilers decisions on waivers have ever burned them before, right? It has only been a couple of years since the Oilers put themselves in a tough position goalie-wise because they made an error on waivers.

In the end, it all works out okay for the Oilers. It is interesting to see the difference though between how the Oilers work, and how Vegas and Tampa work, as those teams work to maximize their cap space for the year with some paper transactions, just as the season starts.

In fairness, the Oilers were able to make some late summer transactions to maximize cap space last year with the LTIR moves (including the totally legit Mike Smith injury) and signing McLeod to a contract for the exact amount of space they had left. Somehow they've created a more constrained cap situation for this season, but I'm sure it'll all work out, they just have to get lucky with injuries or something.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825784 is a reply to message #825783 ]	Tue, 10 October 2023 12:23

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

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Just you wait for next year's gymnastics when we have Brown's bonus to pay.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825785 is a reply to message #825775 ]	Tue, 10 October 2023 12:39

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:40

The absolute melting down some fans did about Lavoie being on waivers was both comical and sad. I am all for keeping prospects like him in the system. Maybe he can become a player some day but the fact is, he's only got 1/2 an OK AHL season but his overall AHL numbers don't jump off the page. There is questions about his NHL footspeed and his compete yet based on the reaction, you'd think they waived McD yesterday.

The even more comical part was the suggestion it was best to waive Janmark so Lavoie could stay. I know Janmark isn't a pull you out of your seat player but he's a legit NHL player capable of scoring 8-10 goals, be on your PK, plays multiple positions and plays a predictable, reliable level of bottom 6 hockey. Lavoie might one day be good but he could also be a teammate of Benson in 2 years for all anyone knows.

If it weren’t for an injury I think we would have saw Lavoie stick around for opening night. After Bernard-Docker passed through waivers I was not worried about any of our guys, including Janmark.

We will never know what we have in our prospects until we give them an opportunity. A half of a great backend to his AHL season, his salary and a decent training camp where he seemed to gain traction as it went on was good enough for me.

Lavoie’s compete was his pre-draft Achilles heal that kept him out of the 1st round. Haven’t really heard much about that since he turned pro.

The problem I see with Lavoie and making the Oilers is, unless you kill penalties, a 4th line winger on the Oilers will only get 8-9 mins a night at the most. So maybe 4 shifts a period. So in those limited minutes, you have to make some kind of an impact and be a guy that as soon as you jump over the boards, you are going. From what I have read and heard about him and you mentioned it, compete isn't always his strong suit and even in the preseason, he sure didn't play like a guy trying to stand out. He didn't have a bad camp but he sure didn't come out looking to impress. It was a slow build. So if he is on the 4th line, can he do something of value and get going in limited minutes.

[Updated on: Tue, 10 October 2023 12:43]

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825797 is a reply to message #825785 ]	Wed, 11 October 2023 09:17

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 10 October 2023 12:39

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:40

The absolute melting down some fans did about Lavoie being on waivers was both comical and sad. I am all for keeping prospects like him in the system. Maybe he can become a player some day but the fact is, he's only got 1/2 an OK AHL season but his overall AHL numbers don't jump off the page. There is questions about his NHL footspeed and his compete yet based on the reaction, you'd think they waived McD yesterday.

The even more comical part was the suggestion it was best to waive Janmark so Lavoie could stay. I know Janmark isn't a pull you out of your seat player but he's a legit NHL player capable of scoring 8-10 goals, be on your PK, plays multiple positions and plays a predictable, reliable level of bottom 6 hockey. Lavoie might one day be good but he could also be a teammate of Benson in 2 years for all anyone knows.

If it weren’t for an injury I think we would have saw Lavoie stick around for opening night. After Bernard-Docker passed through waivers I was not worried about any of our guys, including Janmark.

We will never know what we have in our prospects until we give them an opportunity. A half of a great backend to his AHL season, his salary and a decent training camp where he seemed to gain traction as it went on was good enough for me.

Lavoie’s compete was his pre-draft Achilles heal that kept him out of the 1st round. Haven’t really heard much about that since he turned pro.

The problem I see with Lavoie and making the Oilers is, unless you kill penalties, a 4th line winger on the Oilers will only get 8-9 mins a night at the most. So maybe 4 shifts a period. So in those limited minutes, you have to make some kind of an impact and be a guy that as soon as you jump over the boards, you are going. From what I have read and heard about him and you mentioned it, compete isn't always his strong suit and even in the preseason, he sure didn't play like a guy trying to stand out. He didn't have a bad camp but he sure didn't come out looking to impress. It was a slow build. So if he is on the 4th line, can he do something of value and get going in limited minutes.

Only one way to find out. He's not getting top 6 minutes unless an injury occurs.

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Re: 2023 Training Camp [message #825802 is a reply to message #825797 ]	Wed, 11 October 2023 10:27

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 11 October 2023 09:17

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 10 October 2023 12:39

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:55

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 09 October 2023 20:40

The absolute melting down some fans did about Lavoie being on waivers was both comical and sad. I am all for keeping prospects like him in the system. Maybe he can become a player some day but the fact is, he's only got 1/2 an OK AHL season but his overall AHL numbers don't jump off the page. There is questions about his NHL footspeed and his compete yet based on the reaction, you'd think they waived McD yesterday.

The even more comical part was the suggestion it was best to waive Janmark so Lavoie could stay. I know Janmark isn't a pull you out of your seat player but he's a legit NHL player capable of scoring 8-10 goals, be on your PK, plays multiple positions and plays a predictable, reliable level of bottom 6 hockey. Lavoie might one day be good but he could also be a teammate of Benson in 2 years for all anyone knows.

If it weren’t for an injury I think we would have saw Lavoie stick around for opening night. After Bernard-Docker passed through waivers I was not worried about any of our guys, including Janmark.

We will never know what we have in our prospects until we give them an opportunity. A half of a great backend to his AHL season, his salary and a decent training camp where he seemed to gain traction as it went on was good enough for me.

Lavoie’s compete was his pre-draft Achilles heal that kept him out of the 1st round. Haven’t really heard much about that since he turned pro.

The problem I see with Lavoie and making the Oilers is, unless you kill penalties, a 4th line winger on the Oilers will only get 8-9 mins a night at the most. So maybe 4 shifts a period. So in those limited minutes, you have to make some kind of an impact and be a guy that as soon as you jump over the boards, you are going. From what I have read and heard about him and you mentioned it, compete isn't always his strong suit and even in the preseason, he sure didn't play like a guy trying to stand out. He didn't have a bad camp but he sure didn't come out looking to impress. It was a slow build. So if he is on the 4th line, can he do something of value and get going in limited minutes.

Only one way to find out. He's not getting top 6 minutes unless an injury occurs.

So I would play him in the minors, tell the coach in Bako he's on the PP, the PK and gets 20 mins a night no matter what.

Keeping him up with the Oilers so he can get 9 mins a night if he is lucky and less if they are trailing, makes zero sensed for him.

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