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Re: McLeod files for arbitration [message #824935 is a reply to message #824932 ]	Wed, 05 July 2023 16:14

Adam
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Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 05 July 2023 16:08

Adam wrote on Wed, 05 July 2023 15:50

Also says something about GMs vs. Agents, if the Agents tend to be more convincing more of the time.

That suggests that they're just better at their job. It's all about finding the right comparables and making a strong case. If teams aren't doing that, then they are going to struggle, but it is worth noting, when they're negotiating contracts, they're arguing against these exact same agents.

To me, that's a hire-better-GMs problem.

With regards to McLeod - what RDOF describes is a third line player. If he was consistently producing night in and night out, then he'd have a lot more points and he'd be a top line player and be about to get paid a lot more.

There is definitely a scenario here with McLeod where the team is forced to either walk away from a decision, or needs to trade someone else. If I'm in Holland's shoes, I would be checking constantly to see where there are takers for my over-priced contracts (Foegele, Ceci, Kulak, Nurse, Kane, Campbell) and what I can get in return for those players to clear more cap room. Between this and the danger of an offer sheet for Bouchard, the Oilers need to find some flexibility. I think it's likely there's a market for some of those players, so find someone who values them more, and see what is out there as potential replacements at a lower cost. I wouldn't make an announcement to DNB that I'm only having conversations as a means to clearing more cap room too. Let someone else read through the lines, rather than making it super clear as it'll only result in them trying to charge you an asset to take someone they might actually value.

As an arbitration only discussion, this has nothing to do with agents being better at their jobs than GMs. Arbitrators are selected solely on the perception they will give a fair award. If they want to keep working they have to write decisions that both parties will accept as fair. Even if it's only a grudging acceptance.

Now, I agree that agents are probably better prepared, partially because they have an easier job with limited focus, and hiring smarter GMs would be a good idea.

My argument would be that because they're better prepared, they're better at presenting a convincing argument, so they tend to sway the arbitrators to their way of thinking. There's a large number of statistical categories they can base their argument around, so if you're better able to say why a particular metric is the most important for judging your client against his peers, then you're more likely to get a more favourable result.

I think sending a GM, most of whom are former hockey players, in to any kind of hearing against an agent, most of whom are lawyers, is just asking to get handed your lunch. Teams should hire someone specifically for dealing with the contracts, legal discussions and arbitration, and the GM should basically just sit at the table, say nothing and smile nicely unless he's got enough experience in that particular arena to be more than just a mop to wipe the floor with.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Wed, 05 July 2023 14:29
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 05 July 2023 14:43
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 05 July 2023 14:56
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Skoobz on Wed, 05 July 2023 14:58
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 05 July 2023 15:02
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 05 July 2023 15:05
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 05 July 2023 15:11
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 05 July 2023 15:45
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: smyth260 on Wed, 05 July 2023 15:52
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 05 July 2023 16:02
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Wed, 05 July 2023 16:06
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Wed, 05 July 2023 15:54
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Wed, 05 July 2023 15:50
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 05 July 2023 16:08
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Wed, 05 July 2023 16:14
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Wed, 05 July 2023 16:17
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: inverno76 on Thu, 06 July 2023 15:21
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 06 July 2023 15:31
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Thu, 06 July 2023 16:30
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: inverno76 on Thu, 06 July 2023 21:53
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Thu, 06 July 2023 17:00
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: inverno76 on Thu, 06 July 2023 21:43
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Goose on Wed, 05 July 2023 18:05
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Skookum Jim on Wed, 05 July 2023 15:29
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 05 July 2023 16:05
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: CrusaderPi on Wed, 05 July 2023 16:12
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Wed, 05 July 2023 16:09
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 06 July 2023 12:42
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 06 July 2023 12:59
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 06 July 2023 13:07
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Dragon_Matt on Thu, 06 July 2023 13:39
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: RDOilerfan on Thu, 06 July 2023 14:35
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Thu, 06 July 2023 16:27
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Skookum Jim on Thu, 06 July 2023 14:54
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Thu, 06 July 2023 13:16
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: CrusaderPi on Thu, 06 July 2023 13:30
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Adam on Mon, 17 July 2023 14:18
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: hockeyplayer01 on Tue, 01 August 2023 20:11
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Kr55 on Tue, 01 August 2023 20:48
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Skookum Jim on Tue, 01 August 2023 21:28
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: CrusaderPi on Tue, 01 August 2023 21:54
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: RDOilerfan on Wed, 02 August 2023 08:58
Re: McLeod files for arbitration	By: Kr55 on Wed, 02 August 2023 17:30

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