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 Yams & Klim to Det [message #824665]
Thu, 29 June 2023 09:36 Go to next message
Suomalainen is currently offline Suomalainen
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https://twitter.com/EdmontonOilers/status/167444029404817817 9

For Futures (and Cap space)

97.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824667 is a reply to message #824665 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Suomalainen wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:36

https://twitter.com/EdmontonOilers/status/167444029404817817 9

For Futures (and Cap space)


Connor Brown incoming ...

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824668 is a reply to message #824665 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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Kostin is a bigger loss than Yamamoto.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824669 is a reply to message #824665 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
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"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824670 is a reply to message #824669 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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I am glad the trade got done and it didn't cost the Oilers anything. Stauffer saying he thinks Kostin is going to the KHL.

Yamo is just too small.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824671 is a reply to message #824669 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.


You can blame it on the idiot players in 2020 and 2021 that insisted on getting paid every dime of their contracts even though it was 1000% of revenue instead of 50% as the CBA demands. Selfish bastards stole billions from future players.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824672 is a reply to message #824671 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:55

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.


You can blame it on the idiot players in 2020 and 2021 that insisted on getting paid every dime of their contracts even though it was 1000% of revenue instead of 50% as the CBA demands. Selfish bastards stole billions from future players.

I was actually surprised when I heard I think it was last week from Marek that the players wanted to be paid in full during covid. I thought for some reason they took a little less considering they weren't playing.
You have to think about how many lower end guys over the last 2-3 years either got significantly less in future contracts or are now out of the league just to make sure the top guys get their full salary.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824673 is a reply to message #824671 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:55

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.


You can blame it on the idiot players in 2020 and 2021 that insisted on getting paid every dime of their contracts even though it was 1000% of revenue instead of 50% as the CBA demands. Selfish bastards stole billions from future players.

As a labour person, I kind of take umbrage with this statement. It's actually pretty interesting how little 'ability to pay' is factored into a lot of (mostly public) union contracts.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824674 is a reply to message #824671 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
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Mackenzie Blackwood, who has only played 47 games in the last two seasons while sporting a .893 Sv%, retrieved a 6th round pick for New Jersey.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824675 is a reply to message #824674 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:02

Mackenzie Blackwood, who has only played 47 games in the last two seasons while sporting a .893 Sv%, retrieved a 6th round pick for New Jersey.

Yamo is a 5'8, 153 lbs forward with head and neck problems making 3.1 mill. Turn the trade around. What would you want the Oilers to give up to get him?

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824676 is a reply to message #824675 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:05

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:02

Mackenzie Blackwood, who has only played 47 games in the last two seasons while sporting a .893 Sv%, retrieved a 6th round pick for New Jersey.

Yamo is a 5'8, 153 lbs forward with head and neck problems making 3.1 mill. Turn the trade around. What would you want the Oilers to give up to get him?

6th round pick. Maybe Caleb Jones.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824718 is a reply to message #824676 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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and a pick to Calgary.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824678 is a reply to message #824669 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 10:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.



This feels like a win. It did not cost us to get rid of a decent size contract attached to a small, injury prone, underperforming winger.

Am I reading this wrong? Did people expect to gain assets and no salary retention?

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824680 is a reply to message #824678 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:15

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.



This feels like a win. It did not cost us to get rid of a decent size contract attached to a small, injury prone, underperforming winger.

Am I reading this wrong? Did people expect to gain assets and no salary retention?

Yams should have some value right now. He's not that old and doesn't make that much. He shouldn't be a buy out or pay to ditch player like Kassian.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824681 is a reply to message #824678 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:15

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.



This feels like a win. It did not cost us to get rid of a decent size contract attached to a small, injury prone, underperforming winger.

Am I reading this wrong? Did people expect to gain assets and no salary retention?

I am pretty stunned by a few peoples reaction but I shouldn't be.

Yamo wouldn't be a player that I would be advocating the Oilers to go after for exactly the reasons you said.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824684 is a reply to message #824678 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:15

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.



This feels like a win. It did not cost us to get rid of a decent size contract attached to a small, injury prone, underperforming winger.

Am I reading this wrong? Did people expect to gain assets and no salary retention?


Does it accomplish the main goal of clearing salary? Yes.

But there is a scale to these things. The worst way to accomplish this would be a buyout or trade with retention. The middling way to accomplish this is a trade for future considerations. The best way is to get some sort of asset back, which we are seeing happen in the last week with other deals.

So its another middling move by a lazy 5 million dollar GM who doesn’t go any lengths to find the best solution, but rather the easiest one. If you want to be the best team, your front office has to be the among the best too.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824686 is a reply to message #824684 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 10:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:30

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:15

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.



This feels like a win. It did not cost us to get rid of a decent size contract attached to a small, injury prone, underperforming winger.

Am I reading this wrong? Did people expect to gain assets and no salary retention?


Does it accomplish the main goal of clearing salary? Yes.

But there is a scale to these things. The worst way to accomplish this would be a buyout or trade with retention. The middling way to accomplish this is a trade for future considerations. The best way is to get some sort of asset back, which we are seeing happen in the last week with other deals.

So its another middling move by a lazy 5 million dollar GM who doesn’t go any lengths to find the best solution, but rather the easiest one. If you want to be the best team, your front office has to be the among the best too.

Yeah, that's a good explanation. It's isn't a bad deal, it's a lazy deal at a bad time. I'd probably feel better about sending Yams out for nothing if I believed Holland was capable of using Cap Space to its full potential. I don't. Feeling lucky that the Oilers didn't wait until he had negative value isn't giving me great hope for the rest of summer.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824691 is a reply to message #824686 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:42

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:30

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:15

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.



This feels like a win. It did not cost us to get rid of a decent size contract attached to a small, injury prone, underperforming winger.

Am I reading this wrong? Did people expect to gain assets and no salary retention?


Does it accomplish the main goal of clearing salary? Yes.

But there is a scale to these things. The worst way to accomplish this would be a buyout or trade with retention. The middling way to accomplish this is a trade for future considerations. The best way is to get some sort of asset back, which we are seeing happen in the last week with other deals.

So its another middling move by a lazy 5 million dollar GM who doesn’t go any lengths to find the best solution, but rather the easiest one. If you want to be the best team, your front office has to be the among the best too.

Yeah, that's a good explanation. It's isn't a bad deal, it's a lazy deal at a bad time. I'd probably feel better about sending Yams out for nothing if I believed Holland was capable of using Cap Space to its full potential. I don't. Feeling lucky that the Oilers didn't wait until he had negative value isn't giving me great hope for the rest of summer.


A 6th round pick does not turn my head any different than future considerations. Yamamoto almost has a negative value with his injuries and lack of production this last season, considering his salary and his quality of linemates.

I am with RD on this one. I would not want to be acquiring Yamamoto with that contract and injury history. If we were the team acquiring this 'free' asset I would be pissed. The cap has significant value and Yamamoto was not earning his salary. I was hoping he would mature into that role and be a bargain scoring 50 plus points in the top 6, but alas that was not the case.

Good luck Yams and Klim. One little guy, and one guy with a third leg will be missed and remembered.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824694 is a reply to message #824691 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:51

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:42

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:30

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:15

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.



This feels like a win. It did not cost us to get rid of a decent size contract attached to a small, injury prone, underperforming winger.

Am I reading this wrong? Did people expect to gain assets and no salary retention?


Does it accomplish the main goal of clearing salary? Yes.

But there is a scale to these things. The worst way to accomplish this would be a buyout or trade with retention. The middling way to accomplish this is a trade for future considerations. The best way is to get some sort of asset back, which we are seeing happen in the last week with other deals.

So its another middling move by a lazy 5 million dollar GM who doesn’t go any lengths to find the best solution, but rather the easiest one. If you want to be the best team, your front office has to be the among the best too.

Yeah, that's a good explanation. It's isn't a bad deal, it's a lazy deal at a bad time. I'd probably feel better about sending Yams out for nothing if I believed Holland was capable of using Cap Space to its full potential. I don't. Feeling lucky that the Oilers didn't wait until he had negative value isn't giving me great hope for the rest of summer.


A 6th round pick does not turn my head any different than future considerations. Yamamoto almost has a negative value with his injuries and lack of production this last season, considering his salary and his quality of linemates.

I am with RD on this one. I would not want to be acquiring Yamamoto with that contract and injury history. If we were the team acquiring this 'free' asset I would be pissed. The cap has significant value and Yamamoto was not earning his salary. I was hoping he would mature into that role and be a bargain scoring 50 plus points in the top 6, but alas that was not the case.

Good luck Yams and Klim. One little guy, and one guy with a third leg will be missed and remembered.




100% If I saw the Oilers trading for Yamo given his salary, his injury problems, lack of production and size, and it cost them anything at all, I'd be pissed.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824696 is a reply to message #824691 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:51


A 6th round pick does not turn my head any different than future considerations. Yamamoto almost has a negative value with his injuries and lack of production this last season, considering his salary and his quality of linemates.

I am with RD on this one. I would not want to be acquiring Yamamoto with that contract and injury history. If we were the team acquiring this 'free' asset I would be pissed. The cap has significant value and Yamamoto was not earning his salary. I was hoping he would mature into that role and be a bargain scoring 50 plus points in the top 6, but alas that was not the case.

Good luck Yams and Klim. One little guy, and one guy with a third leg will be missed and remembered.



While a small get, even a 6th round pick has some potential value. Some 6th round picks do become players.

Futures is a euphemism for nothing. We've evaporated two players "under team control" for nothing. Yes, it opens up $3.1MM in cap space, and there is a benefit to that, but man...we're not exactly optimizing on our assets here.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824698 is a reply to message #824696 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NetBOG is currently offline NetBOG
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Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:01

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:51


A 6th round pick does not turn my head any different than future considerations. Yamamoto almost has a negative value with his injuries and lack of production this last season, considering his salary and his quality of linemates.

I am with RD on this one. I would not want to be acquiring Yamamoto with that contract and injury history. If we were the team acquiring this 'free' asset I would be pissed. The cap has significant value and Yamamoto was not earning his salary. I was hoping he would mature into that role and be a bargain scoring 50 plus points in the top 6, but alas that was not the case.

Good luck Yams and Klim. One little guy, and one guy with a third leg will be missed and remembered.



While a small get, even a 6th round pick has some potential value. Some 6th round picks do become players.

Futures is a euphemism for nothing. We've evaporated two players "under team control" for nothing. Yes, it opens up $3.1MM in cap space, and there is a benefit to that, but man...we're not exactly optimizing on our assets here.


Boy, I'll bet you were furious when they didn't get anything back for Kassian when he was "under team control" last year.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824700 is a reply to message #824698 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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NetBOG wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:04

Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:01

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:51


A 6th round pick does not turn my head any different than future considerations. Yamamoto almost has a negative value with his injuries and lack of production this last season, considering his salary and his quality of linemates.

I am with RD on this one. I would not want to be acquiring Yamamoto with that contract and injury history. If we were the team acquiring this 'free' asset I would be pissed. The cap has significant value and Yamamoto was not earning his salary. I was hoping he would mature into that role and be a bargain scoring 50 plus points in the top 6, but alas that was not the case.

Good luck Yams and Klim. One little guy, and one guy with a third leg will be missed and remembered.



While a small get, even a 6th round pick has some potential value. Some 6th round picks do become players.

Futures is a euphemism for nothing. We've evaporated two players "under team control" for nothing. Yes, it opens up $3.1MM in cap space, and there is a benefit to that, but man...we're not exactly optimizing on our assets here.


Boy, I'll bet you were furious when they didn't get anything back for Kassian when he was "under team control" last year.


Team control is a dig at Holland, who only ever wants to trade for people with tenure because they're under team control.

And Kassian was also pretty lazy as far as deals go, and also necessitated because our GM is bad not just at trades but also at contracts and cap management.

The Oilers gave him too much for way too long and then they had to pay someone to take him away.

At least with Yamamoto they didn't pay the Wings anything but the rights to Kostin.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824719 is a reply to message #824700 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 13:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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because the Wings still feel bad about giving us Athanasiou and Mike Green.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824697 is a reply to message #824691 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smyth260 is currently offline smyth260
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It should turn your head a little because its an asset we didn’t have before.

We are low on assets to make this team better because at every deal we pay maximum value or don’t receive it. Had to pay two first rounders to get Ekholm (Schaefer and 2023). Had to pay Caleb Jones and 3rd round pick to get a 38 year old 5.5M Duncan Keith who only would waive his NMC for 3 teams. Had to pay Zack Kassian over 3M for 4 years because he scored well for half a season with 97. Had to pay a 1st 2nd and 3rd rounder to get rid of Kassian to Arizona.

This is a microcosm of management’s overall failure in asset management.

Clean house or bust

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824705 is a reply to message #824697 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:03

It should turn your head a little because its an asset we didn’t have before.

We are low on assets to make this team better because at every deal we pay maximum value or don’t receive it. Had to pay two first rounders to get Ekholm (Schaefer and 2023). Had to pay Caleb Jones and 3rd round pick to get a 38 year old 5.5M Duncan Keith who only would waive his NMC for 3 teams. Had to pay Zack Kassian over 3M for 4 years because he scored well for half a season with 97. Had to pay a 1st 2nd and 3rd rounder to get rid of Kassian to Arizona.

This is a microcosm of management’s overall failure in asset management.


Ultimately, with any salary dump, whether it's the right move or not depends on how you end up spending the money you saved.

Fortunately, we have Kenny Holland at the helm, who is an expert at cap management and contract negotiations, right?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824706 is a reply to message #824697 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:03

It should turn your head a little because its an asset we didn’t have before.

We are low on assets to make this team better because at every deal we pay maximum value or don’t receive it. Had to pay two first rounders to get Ekholm (Schaefer and 2023). Had to pay Caleb Jones and 3rd round pick to get a 38 year old 5.5M Duncan Keith who only would waive his NMC for 3 teams. Had to pay Zack Kassian over 3M for 4 years because he scored well for half a season with 97. Had to pay a 1st 2nd and 3rd rounder to get rid of Kassian to Arizona.

This is a microcosm of management’s overall failure in asset management.


And I agree the Keith deal was garbage. It was at the time, and it is still a bad deal to this day. Kassian deal was bad at the start and how it ended up too. Maybe this is not the best case scenario, but it is an improvement over the past and it should be recognized as such, otherwise what is the point? Acknowledge improvements and see if they continue to get better. So far it has been trending up, and there is a change up top coming.

In addition, considering teams have drafted players as token picks in the past the 6th and 7th round picks are nothing but a lottomax ticket, a lot better than the 1 in 33M, but you catch my drift.

I would rather those prospects spots be filled with college free agents than picks, and lots of times a player ranked that low could go undrafted and be picked up as a free agent anyways.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824708 is a reply to message #824706 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:38

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 12:03

It should turn your head a little because its an asset we didn’t have before.

We are low on assets to make this team better because at every deal we pay maximum value or don’t receive it. Had to pay two first rounders to get Ekholm (Schaefer and 2023). Had to pay Caleb Jones and 3rd round pick to get a 38 year old 5.5M Duncan Keith who only would waive his NMC for 3 teams. Had to pay Zack Kassian over 3M for 4 years because he scored well for half a season with 97. Had to pay a 1st 2nd and 3rd rounder to get rid of Kassian to Arizona.

This is a microcosm of management’s overall failure in asset management.


And I agree the Keith deal was garbage. It was at the time, and it is still a bad deal to this day. Kassian deal was bad at the start and how it ended up too. Maybe this is not the best case scenario, but it is an improvement over the past and it should be recognized as such, otherwise what is the point? Acknowledge improvements and see if they continue to get better. So far it has been trending up, and there is a change up top coming.

In addition, considering teams have drafted players as token picks in the past the 6th and 7th round picks are nothing but a lottomax ticket, a lot better than the 1 in 33M, but you catch my drift.

I would rather those prospects spots be filled with college free agents than picks, and lots of times a player ranked that low could go undrafted and be picked up as a free agent anyways.


I think it's worth noting, the 6th or 7th round pick is the same lotto shot for the Red Wings, so getting them to include it in the deal so that you have SOMETHING to show for it shouldn't be the hardest of conversations.

Drafting someone doesn't take up a contract spot - it just gives you the rights to him, and sometimes those guys develop. I agree, the team should be looking at multiple avenues for prospect acquisition, but we have very, very few draft picks this year, so having one more would certainly not have hurt. Hell, even push it out a couple years, but getting ANYTHING back is preferable to getting zero for a guy who scores at about a 35-40-point pace over the last three seasons plus an RFA who was a useful 4th liner last year.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824695 is a reply to message #824686 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:42

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:30

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:15

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.



This feels like a win. It did not cost us to get rid of a decent size contract attached to a small, injury prone, underperforming winger.

Am I reading this wrong? Did people expect to gain assets and no salary retention?


Does it accomplish the main goal of clearing salary? Yes.

But there is a scale to these things. The worst way to accomplish this would be a buyout or trade with retention. The middling way to accomplish this is a trade for future considerations. The best way is to get some sort of asset back, which we are seeing happen in the last week with other deals.

So its another middling move by a lazy 5 million dollar GM who doesn’t go any lengths to find the best solution, but rather the easiest one. If you want to be the best team, your front office has to be the among the best too.

Yeah, that's a good explanation. It's isn't a bad deal, it's a lazy deal at a bad time. I'd probably feel better about sending Yams out for nothing if I believed Holland was capable of using Cap Space to its full potential. I don't. Feeling lucky that the Oilers didn't wait until he had negative value isn't giving me great hope for the rest of summer.


Exactly.

I don't think Holland is a good negotiator. He doesn't really understand how to make a market for his assets - and he is so clear about his plans that people know he's not going to walk away. They're able to just wait him out, knowing he's going to cave. Holland has these arbitrary deadlines he sets too - and they don't really work well for him. Chicago used the same thing with the Keith deal. The draft was when Holland felt we needed to do this, so he was always going to cave around now.

I don't think Yzerman has done very well as a GM since leaving the great support network in Tampa, but he sure is able to take advantage of the old guy - Detroit's done very well dealing with the Oilers the last few years.

Yamamoto isn't the sniper that Oilers fans may have hoped for when he was getting hyped up by the media post-draft. He's still a useful player, and we started signalling weeks ago that we need to get rid of him.

I do think it's funny to see people suggesting we were going to get a return on Yamamoto shifting now to just saying it's great he's gone for nothing.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824710 is a reply to message #824695 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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Adam wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:57

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:42

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 10:30

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:15

smyth260 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 09:50

"Did you want me to get him for free" - Ken Holland 2 years before giving away Yamamoto for free.



This feels like a win. It did not cost us to get rid of a decent size contract attached to a small, injury prone, underperforming winger.

Am I reading this wrong? Did people expect to gain assets and no salary retention?


Does it accomplish the main goal of clearing salary? Yes.

But there is a scale to these things. The worst way to accomplish this would be a buyout or trade with retention. The middling way to accomplish this is a trade for future considerations. The best way is to get some sort of asset back, which we are seeing happen in the last week with other deals.

So its another middling move by a lazy 5 million dollar GM who doesn’t go any lengths to find the best solution, but rather the easiest one. If you want to be the best team, your front office has to be the among the best too.

Yeah, that's a good explanation. It's isn't a bad deal, it's a lazy deal at a bad time. I'd probably feel better about sending Yams out for nothing if I believed Holland was capable of using Cap Space to its full potential. I don't. Feeling lucky that the Oilers didn't wait until he had negative value isn't giving me great hope for the rest of summer.


Exactly.

I don't think Holland is a good negotiator. He doesn't really understand how to make a market for his assets - and he is so clear about his plans that people know he's not going to walk away. They're able to just wait him out, knowing he's going to cave. Holland has these arbitrary deadlines he sets too - and they don't really work well for him. Chicago used the same thing with the Keith deal. The draft was when Holland felt we needed to do this, so he was always going to cave around now.

I don't think Yzerman has done very well as a GM since leaving the great support network in Tampa, but he sure is able to take advantage of the old guy - Detroit's done very well dealing with the Oilers the last few years.

Yamamoto isn't the sniper that Oilers fans may have hoped for when he was getting hyped up by the media post-draft. He's still a useful player, and we started signalling weeks ago that we need to get rid of him.

I do think it's funny to see people suggesting we were going to get a return on Yamamoto shifting now to just saying it's great he's gone for nothing.


I do not recall ever saying we would get a return for Yamamoto if that is what you inferring. I really thought he would cost an asset, or a bad contract in return when moved. If i said something else I blame the edibles before bedtime.

The kid still is a useful player, but not at 3.1M. I would much rather have Puljujarvi at that same price. Yamamoto can play the PK, and is a teammate favourite. You can find better players for that role at the same price point.

Also everyone knew that Yamamoto was the moveable piece. His contract, his play and his injury history told the tale. Media were going to run with the story regardless.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824721 is a reply to message #824710 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:44

..The kid still is a useful player, but not at 3.1M. I would much rather have Puljujarvi at that same price...




I don't think you'd want Puljujarvi today.. announced he's going in for another double hip surgery.. Carolina doesn't give him a QO.. he's UFA.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824733 is a reply to message #824721 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:02

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 11:44

..The kid still is a useful player, but not at 3.1M. I would much rather have Puljujarvi at that same price...




I don't think you'd want Puljujarvi today.. announced he's going in for another double hip surgery.. Carolina doesn't give him a QO.. he's UFA.


Fair. The JP we had before he was traded.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824717 is a reply to message #824695 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Burgeoboy is currently offline Burgeoboy
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I don't get how, not the out come you expected/wanted = Lazy.

to me the lazy way would have been buying him out 15 mins after the window open. It seems to me Holland spent the whole buy out window trying to trade him for an asset but when he couldn't he took the best option he had available.

I am not sure how one "makes a market" for Yamamoto, I am no GM, and certainly not as wise as many here, so maybe I am missing something, but there nothing you could due to convince me you pay anything for these guys, unless Kostin signs a cheap deal, If I am an NHL GM I am not taking this deal. The Islanders just had to give up a 2nd to move Joshua Bailey, yes he older and makes more, but production is similar.

So, out side of the hockey master minds here at Oil fans, that could have gotten a return for Yamamoto, (I assume all it would have taken is some creativity!!!). I think this is a decent move. He didn't buy out Yamamoto and create dead cap space (I know how much everyone here hates that) and he also didn't do the second cardinal sin of over paying 4th liners by $500,000 and or even worse give him a second year!!!.

If Kostin asked for 1 mill and we traded him rather than sign him, then that changes my outlook on this deal, but if he wanted over 1.5 + for 2 to 3 year and if he doesn't get it hes Russia bound, then I would say Holland made the right call and while he didn't get a return (not sure how he could, but again I lack creativity) . This is much better than the other options.

I am no Holland supporter and I don't normally post here, but when I saw this deal, I though yeah that make sense, no way anyone could take issue with this, hell Holland might have even be creative here, you won't take my over paid, under sized, under producing winger (who plays with the best centers in the world)for nothing? how about I give you a 4th liner that going leave for Russia if you don't over pay him? I honestly though this was the one deal that fit all of Oil Fans requirements, but I stand corrected.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824723 is a reply to message #824717 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Burgeoboy wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:30

I don't get how, not the out come you expected/wanted = Lazy.

to me the lazy way would have been buying him out 15 mins after the window open. It seems to me Holland spent the whole buy out window trying to trade him for an asset but when he couldn't he took the best option he had available.

I am not sure how one "makes a market" for Yamamoto, I am no GM, and certainly not as wise as many here, so maybe I am missing something, but there nothing you could due to convince me you pay anything for these guys, unless Kostin signs a cheap deal, If I am an NHL GM I am not taking this deal. The Islanders just had to give up a 2nd to move Joshua Bailey, yes he older and makes more, but production is similar.

So, out side of the hockey master minds here at Oil fans, that could have gotten a return for Yamamoto, (I assume all it would have taken is some creativity!!!). I think this is a decent move. He didn't buy out Yamamoto and create dead cap space (I know how much everyone here hates that) and he also didn't do the second cardinal sin of over paying 4th liners by $500,000 and or even worse give him a second year!!!.

If Kostin asked for 1 mill and we traded him rather than sign him, then that changes my outlook on this deal, but if he wanted over 1.5 + for 2 to 3 year and if he doesn't get it hes Russia bound, then I would say Holland made the right call and while he didn't get a return (not sure how he could, but again I lack creativity) . This is much better than the other options.

I am no Holland supporter and I don't normally post here, but when I saw this deal, I though yeah that make sense, no way anyone could take issue with this, hell Holland might have even be creative here, you won't take my over paid, under sized, under producing winger (who plays with the best centers in the world)for nothing? how about I give you a 4th liner that going leave for Russia if you don't over pay him? I honestly though this was the one deal that fit all of Oil Fans requirements, but I stand corrected.


The move only has to be done right now because Holland has willingly walked himself into a corner by constantly and consistently making the easy move at the wrong time. So if you're making a trade where you have an asset like Yammo who despite his productivity and injury issues is still a young player who has scored 20, why do it now? Maybe a team doesn't get a 2nd/3rd line winger to score in free agency and needs something in 3 weeks? Maybe the team decides they actually do need someone who could / should score 10/15/20 and $3 million isn't actually that expensive for someone right now, as we've seen this week. Not that scenario generation matters here. Holland has his eyes set on a certain free agency outcome for July 1 so he needed to open up Cap Space and he needed to do it now. So he plays with the levers. Not to make the team as good as possible, but to reach his desired outcomes. It's honestly not a terrible move at the this time and place. For me, it's just watching another player be whittled away to zero so we can watch another box checking exercise this weekend. It's all so predictable. Compare and contrast the Oiler philosophy of waiting too long and getting literally nothing in return to Vegas who just said, "thanks for helping us win a cup, but we want to get younger and cheaper".


This only applies to the Yammo move. Kostin was a one and done, easily replaced player. He actually is a player with no value.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824726 is a reply to message #824723 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Burgeoboy is currently offline Burgeoboy
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 17:43

Burgeoboy wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:30

I don't get how, not the out come you expected/wanted = Lazy.

to me the lazy way would have been buying him out 15 mins after the window open. It seems to me Holland spent the whole buy out window trying to trade him for an asset but when he couldn't he took the best option he had available.

I am not sure how one "makes a market" for Yamamoto, I am no GM, and certainly not as wise as many here, so maybe I am missing something, but there nothing you could due to convince me you pay anything for these guys, unless Kostin signs a cheap deal, If I am an NHL GM I am not taking this deal. The Islanders just had to give up a 2nd to move Joshua Bailey, yes he older and makes more, but production is similar.

So, out side of the hockey master minds here at Oil fans, that could have gotten a return for Yamamoto, (I assume all it would have taken is some creativity!!!). I think this is a decent move. He didn't buy out Yamamoto and create dead cap space (I know how much everyone here hates that) and he also didn't do the second cardinal sin of over paying 4th liners by $500,000 and or even worse give him a second year!!!.

If Kostin asked for 1 mill and we traded him rather than sign him, then that changes my outlook on this deal, but if he wanted over 1.5 + for 2 to 3 year and if he doesn't get it hes Russia bound, then I would say Holland made the right call and while he didn't get a return (not sure how he could, but again I lack creativity) . This is much better than the other options.

I am no Holland supporter and I don't normally post here, but when I saw this deal, I though yeah that make sense, no way anyone could take issue with this, hell Holland might have even be creative here, you won't take my over paid, under sized, under producing winger (who plays with the best centers in the world)for nothing? how about I give you a 4th liner that going leave for Russia if you don't over pay him? I honestly though this was the one deal that fit all of Oil Fans requirements, but I stand corrected.


The move only has to be done right now because Holland has willingly walked himself into a corner by constantly and consistently making the easy move at the wrong time. So if you're making a trade where you have an asset like Yammo who despite his productivity and injury issues is still a young player who has scored 20, why do it now? Maybe a team doesn't get a 2nd/3rd line winger to score in free agency and needs something in 3 weeks? Maybe the team decides they actually do need someone who could / should score 10/15/20 and $3 million isn't actually that expensive for someone right now, as we've seen this week. Not that scenario generation matters here. Holland has his eyes set on a certain free agency outcome for July 1 so he needed to open up Cap Space and he needed to do it now. So he plays with the levers. Not to make the team as good as possible, but to reach his desired outcomes. It's honestly not a terrible move at the this time and place. For me, it's just watching another player be whittled away to zero so we can watch another box checking exercise this weekend. It's all so predictable. Compare and contrast the Oiler philosophy of waiting too long and getting literally nothing in return to Vegas who just said, "thanks for helping us win a cup, but we want to get younger and cheaper".


This only applies to the Yammo move. Kostin was a one and done, easily replaced player. He actually is a player with no value.


I couldn't agree more. he backed himself in to a corner and took the best route out he could, ideally, hes not in the corner, but once he is, that is the reality we have to live in. Given that reality I like the deal.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824730 is a reply to message #824726 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Burgeoboy wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:31

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 17:43

Burgeoboy wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:30

I don't get how, not the out come you expected/wanted = Lazy.

to me the lazy way would have been buying him out 15 mins after the window open. It seems to me Holland spent the whole buy out window trying to trade him for an asset but when he couldn't he took the best option he had available.

I am not sure how one "makes a market" for Yamamoto, I am no GM, and certainly not as wise as many here, so maybe I am missing something, but there nothing you could due to convince me you pay anything for these guys, unless Kostin signs a cheap deal, If I am an NHL GM I am not taking this deal. The Islanders just had to give up a 2nd to move Joshua Bailey, yes he older and makes more, but production is similar.

So, out side of the hockey master minds here at Oil fans, that could have gotten a return for Yamamoto, (I assume all it would have taken is some creativity!!!). I think this is a decent move. He didn't buy out Yamamoto and create dead cap space (I know how much everyone here hates that) and he also didn't do the second cardinal sin of over paying 4th liners by $500,000 and or even worse give him a second year!!!.

If Kostin asked for 1 mill and we traded him rather than sign him, then that changes my outlook on this deal, but if he wanted over 1.5 + for 2 to 3 year and if he doesn't get it hes Russia bound, then I would say Holland made the right call and while he didn't get a return (not sure how he could, but again I lack creativity) . This is much better than the other options.

I am no Holland supporter and I don't normally post here, but when I saw this deal, I though yeah that make sense, no way anyone could take issue with this, hell Holland might have even be creative here, you won't take my over paid, under sized, under producing winger (who plays with the best centers in the world)for nothing? how about I give you a 4th liner that going leave for Russia if you don't over pay him? I honestly though this was the one deal that fit all of Oil Fans requirements, but I stand corrected.


The move only has to be done right now because Holland has willingly walked himself into a corner by constantly and consistently making the easy move at the wrong time. So if you're making a trade where you have an asset like Yammo who despite his productivity and injury issues is still a young player who has scored 20, why do it now? Maybe a team doesn't get a 2nd/3rd line winger to score in free agency and needs something in 3 weeks? Maybe the team decides they actually do need someone who could / should score 10/15/20 and $3 million isn't actually that expensive for someone right now, as we've seen this week. Not that scenario generation matters here. Holland has his eyes set on a certain free agency outcome for July 1 so he needed to open up Cap Space and he needed to do it now. So he plays with the levers. Not to make the team as good as possible, but to reach his desired outcomes. It's honestly not a terrible move at the this time and place. For me, it's just watching another player be whittled away to zero so we can watch another box checking exercise this weekend. It's all so predictable. Compare and contrast the Oiler philosophy of waiting too long and getting literally nothing in return to Vegas who just said, "thanks for helping us win a cup, but we want to get younger and cheaper".


This only applies to the Yammo move. Kostin was a one and done, easily replaced player. He actually is a player with no value.


I couldn't agree more. he backed himself in to a corner and took the best route out he could, ideally, hes not in the corner, but once he is, that is the reality we have to live in. Given that reality I like the deal.



I see this as a straight line path to the next corner.

If this move opened up the space to push the Oilers forward, I'd like it. I just see it as the next repetition of a cycle where the Oilers only try to paper over their obvious issues. Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic but as we come nearer to the end* of McDavid and Draisaitl, I find I'm less patient with stuff like this.

*either in 2 years or in 10, the clock is ticking. This will end.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824740 is a reply to message #824730 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:51

Burgeoboy wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:31

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 17:43

Burgeoboy wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:30

I don't get how, not the out come you expected/wanted = Lazy.

to me the lazy way would have been buying him out 15 mins after the window open. It seems to me Holland spent the whole buy out window trying to trade him for an asset but when he couldn't he took the best option he had available.

I am not sure how one "makes a market" for Yamamoto, I am no GM, and certainly not as wise as many here, so maybe I am missing something, but there nothing you could due to convince me you pay anything for these guys, unless Kostin signs a cheap deal, If I am an NHL GM I am not taking this deal. The Islanders just had to give up a 2nd to move Joshua Bailey, yes he older and makes more, but production is similar.

So, out side of the hockey master minds here at Oil fans, that could have gotten a return for Yamamoto, (I assume all it would have taken is some creativity!!!). I think this is a decent move. He didn't buy out Yamamoto and create dead cap space (I know how much everyone here hates that) and he also didn't do the second cardinal sin of over paying 4th liners by $500,000 and or even worse give him a second year!!!.

If Kostin asked for 1 mill and we traded him rather than sign him, then that changes my outlook on this deal, but if he wanted over 1.5 + for 2 to 3 year and if he doesn't get it hes Russia bound, then I would say Holland made the right call and while he didn't get a return (not sure how he could, but again I lack creativity) . This is much better than the other options.

I am no Holland supporter and I don't normally post here, but when I saw this deal, I though yeah that make sense, no way anyone could take issue with this, hell Holland might have even be creative here, you won't take my over paid, under sized, under producing winger (who plays with the best centers in the world)for nothing? how about I give you a 4th liner that going leave for Russia if you don't over pay him? I honestly though this was the one deal that fit all of Oil Fans requirements, but I stand corrected.


The move only has to be done right now because Holland has willingly walked himself into a corner by constantly and consistently making the easy move at the wrong time. So if you're making a trade where you have an asset like Yammo who despite his productivity and injury issues is still a young player who has scored 20, why do it now? Maybe a team doesn't get a 2nd/3rd line winger to score in free agency and needs something in 3 weeks? Maybe the team decides they actually do need someone who could / should score 10/15/20 and $3 million isn't actually that expensive for someone right now, as we've seen this week. Not that scenario generation matters here. Holland has his eyes set on a certain free agency outcome for July 1 so he needed to open up Cap Space and he needed to do it now. So he plays with the levers. Not to make the team as good as possible, but to reach his desired outcomes. It's honestly not a terrible move at the this time and place. For me, it's just watching another player be whittled away to zero so we can watch another box checking exercise this weekend. It's all so predictable. Compare and contrast the Oiler philosophy of waiting too long and getting literally nothing in return to Vegas who just said, "thanks for helping us win a cup, but we want to get younger and cheaper".


This only applies to the Yammo move. Kostin was a one and done, easily replaced player. He actually is a player with no value.


I couldn't agree more. he backed himself in to a corner and took the best route out he could, ideally, hes not in the corner, but once he is, that is the reality we have to live in. Given that reality I like the deal.



I see this as a straight line path to the next corner.

If this move opened up the space to push the Oilers forward, I'd like it. I just see it as the next repetition of a cycle where the Oilers only try to paper over their obvious issues. Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic but as we come nearer to the end* of McDavid and Draisaitl, I find I'm less patient with stuff like this.

*either in 2 years or in 10, the clock is ticking. This will end.


The core is set. I would like to see Kane moved, but this what we can expect going forward. We are papering over our holes on a year to year basis. The bottom 6 will have a couple changes. The top 6 will have a player slide in and out. The core is there to stay for the parade.

The defense is the question mark.

Another thought. Would you rather have a set roster with no wiggle room, or some cap space for deadline acquisitions? Some Ekholm-like deals will be available in the spring of 2024.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824738 is a reply to message #824723 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:13

Burgeoboy wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:30

I don't get how, not the out come you expected/wanted = Lazy.

to me the lazy way would have been buying him out 15 mins after the window open. It seems to me Holland spent the whole buy out window trying to trade him for an asset but when he couldn't he took the best option he had available.

I am not sure how one "makes a market" for Yamamoto, I am no GM, and certainly not as wise as many here, so maybe I am missing something, but there nothing you could due to convince me you pay anything for these guys, unless Kostin signs a cheap deal, If I am an NHL GM I am not taking this deal. The Islanders just had to give up a 2nd to move Joshua Bailey, yes he older and makes more, but production is similar.

So, out side of the hockey master minds here at Oil fans, that could have gotten a return for Yamamoto, (I assume all it would have taken is some creativity!!!). I think this is a decent move. He didn't buy out Yamamoto and create dead cap space (I know how much everyone here hates that) and he also didn't do the second cardinal sin of over paying 4th liners by $500,000 and or even worse give him a second year!!!.

If Kostin asked for 1 mill and we traded him rather than sign him, then that changes my outlook on this deal, but if he wanted over 1.5 + for 2 to 3 year and if he doesn't get it hes Russia bound, then I would say Holland made the right call and while he didn't get a return (not sure how he could, but again I lack creativity) . This is much better than the other options.

I am no Holland supporter and I don't normally post here, but when I saw this deal, I though yeah that make sense, no way anyone could take issue with this, hell Holland might have even be creative here, you won't take my over paid, under sized, under producing winger (who plays with the best centers in the world)for nothing? how about I give you a 4th liner that going leave for Russia if you don't over pay him? I honestly though this was the one deal that fit all of Oil Fans requirements, but I stand corrected.


The move only has to be done right now because Holland has willingly walked himself into a corner by constantly and consistently making the easy move at the wrong time. So if you're making a trade where you have an asset like Yammo who despite his productivity and injury issues is still a young player who has scored 20, why do it now? Maybe a team doesn't get a 2nd/3rd line winger to score in free agency and needs something in 3 weeks? Maybe the team decides they actually do need someone who could / should score 10/15/20 and $3 million isn't actually that expensive for someone right now, as we've seen this week. Not that scenario generation matters here. Holland has his eyes set on a certain free agency outcome for July 1 so he needed to open up Cap Space and he needed to do it now. So he plays with the levers. Not to make the team as good as possible, but to reach his desired outcomes. It's honestly not a terrible move at the this time and place. For me, it's just watching another player be whittled away to zero so we can watch another box checking exercise this weekend. It's all so predictable. Compare and contrast the Oiler philosophy of waiting too long and getting literally nothing in return to Vegas who just said, "thanks for helping us win a cup, but we want to get younger and cheaper".


This only applies to the Yammo move. Kostin was a one and done, easily replaced player. He actually is a player with no value.


The buyout was a real possibility and ultimately the lazy move. It did not happen.

Quote:

Not to make the team as good as possible, but to reach his desired outcomes.


What happens if his desired outcome is to make the team as good as possible? I am no Holland fanboy, but this narrative that his team is lost at sea is a bit conjecture. I thought Holland has made some decent moves in the last calendar year (I am completely ignoring the Campbell albatross).

We also turned a 5th into Grubbe, which is kinda move up on the draft board. Also I am not sure if anyone noticed but the draft floor was relatively quiet with GM's holding onto their picks.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824741 is a reply to message #824738 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:17

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:13

Burgeoboy wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:30

I don't get how, not the out come you expected/wanted = Lazy.

to me the lazy way would have been buying him out 15 mins after the window open. It seems to me Holland spent the whole buy out window trying to trade him for an asset but when he couldn't he took the best option he had available.

I am not sure how one "makes a market" for Yamamoto, I am no GM, and certainly not as wise as many here, so maybe I am missing something, but there nothing you could due to convince me you pay anything for these guys, unless Kostin signs a cheap deal, If I am an NHL GM I am not taking this deal. The Islanders just had to give up a 2nd to move Joshua Bailey, yes he older and makes more, but production is similar.

So, out side of the hockey master minds here at Oil fans, that could have gotten a return for Yamamoto, (I assume all it would have taken is some creativity!!!). I think this is a decent move. He didn't buy out Yamamoto and create dead cap space (I know how much everyone here hates that) and he also didn't do the second cardinal sin of over paying 4th liners by $500,000 and or even worse give him a second year!!!.

If Kostin asked for 1 mill and we traded him rather than sign him, then that changes my outlook on this deal, but if he wanted over 1.5 + for 2 to 3 year and if he doesn't get it hes Russia bound, then I would say Holland made the right call and while he didn't get a return (not sure how he could, but again I lack creativity) . This is much better than the other options.

I am no Holland supporter and I don't normally post here, but when I saw this deal, I though yeah that make sense, no way anyone could take issue with this, hell Holland might have even be creative here, you won't take my over paid, under sized, under producing winger (who plays with the best centers in the world)for nothing? how about I give you a 4th liner that going leave for Russia if you don't over pay him? I honestly though this was the one deal that fit all of Oil Fans requirements, but I stand corrected.


The move only has to be done right now because Holland has willingly walked himself into a corner by constantly and consistently making the easy move at the wrong time. So if you're making a trade where you have an asset like Yammo who despite his productivity and injury issues is still a young player who has scored 20, why do it now? Maybe a team doesn't get a 2nd/3rd line winger to score in free agency and needs something in 3 weeks? Maybe the team decides they actually do need someone who could / should score 10/15/20 and $3 million isn't actually that expensive for someone right now, as we've seen this week. Not that scenario generation matters here. Holland has his eyes set on a certain free agency outcome for July 1 so he needed to open up Cap Space and he needed to do it now. So he plays with the levers. Not to make the team as good as possible, but to reach his desired outcomes. It's honestly not a terrible move at the this time and place. For me, it's just watching another player be whittled away to zero so we can watch another box checking exercise this weekend. It's all so predictable. Compare and contrast the Oiler philosophy of waiting too long and getting literally nothing in return to Vegas who just said, "thanks for helping us win a cup, but we want to get younger and cheaper".


This only applies to the Yammo move. Kostin was a one and done, easily replaced player. He actually is a player with no value.


The buyout was a real possibility and ultimately the lazy move. It did not happen.

Quote:

Not to make the team as good as possible, but to reach his desired outcomes.


What happens if his desired outcome is to make the team as good as possible? I am no Holland fanboy, but this narrative that his team is lost at sea is a bit conjecture. I thought Holland has made some decent moves in the last calendar year (I am completely ignoring the Campbell albatross).

We also turned a 5th into Grubbe, which is kinda move up on the draft board. Also I am not sure if anyone noticed but the draft floor was relatively quiet with GM's holding onto their picks.


I would assume that Campbell is putting in a ton of work this offseason to improve his game. So if Campbell gets his game back to in the .912 range that he was for most of his career, is his contract an albatross? I have no idea if he can do it but it's hard to say the contract is bad after only 1 season.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824748 is a reply to message #824741 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:23

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:17

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 14:13

Burgeoboy wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 13:30

I don't get how, not the out come you expected/wanted = Lazy.

to me the lazy way would have been buying him out 15 mins after the window open. It seems to me Holland spent the whole buy out window trying to trade him for an asset but when he couldn't he took the best option he had available.

I am not sure how one "makes a market" for Yamamoto, I am no GM, and certainly not as wise as many here, so maybe I am missing something, but there nothing you could due to convince me you pay anything for these guys, unless Kostin signs a cheap deal, If I am an NHL GM I am not taking this deal. The Islanders just had to give up a 2nd to move Joshua Bailey, yes he older and makes more, but production is similar.

So, out side of the hockey master minds here at Oil fans, that could have gotten a return for Yamamoto, (I assume all it would have taken is some creativity!!!). I think this is a decent move. He didn't buy out Yamamoto and create dead cap space (I know how much everyone here hates that) and he also didn't do the second cardinal sin of over paying 4th liners by $500,000 and or even worse give him a second year!!!.

If Kostin asked for 1 mill and we traded him rather than sign him, then that changes my outlook on this deal, but if he wanted over 1.5 + for 2 to 3 year and if he doesn't get it hes Russia bound, then I would say Holland made the right call and while he didn't get a return (not sure how he could, but again I lack creativity) . This is much better than the other options.

I am no Holland supporter and I don't normally post here, but when I saw this deal, I though yeah that make sense, no way anyone could take issue with this, hell Holland might have even be creative here, you won't take my over paid, under sized, under producing winger (who plays with the best centers in the world)for nothing? how about I give you a 4th liner that going leave for Russia if you don't over pay him? I honestly though this was the one deal that fit all of Oil Fans requirements, but I stand corrected.


The move only has to be done right now because Holland has willingly walked himself into a corner by constantly and consistently making the easy move at the wrong time. So if you're making a trade where you have an asset like Yammo who despite his productivity and injury issues is still a young player who has scored 20, why do it now? Maybe a team doesn't get a 2nd/3rd line winger to score in free agency and needs something in 3 weeks? Maybe the team decides they actually do need someone who could / should score 10/15/20 and $3 million isn't actually that expensive for someone right now, as we've seen this week. Not that scenario generation matters here. Holland has his eyes set on a certain free agency outcome for July 1 so he needed to open up Cap Space and he needed to do it now. So he plays with the levers. Not to make the team as good as possible, but to reach his desired outcomes. It's honestly not a terrible move at the this time and place. For me, it's just watching another player be whittled away to zero so we can watch another box checking exercise this weekend. It's all so predictable. Compare and contrast the Oiler philosophy of waiting too long and getting literally nothing in return to Vegas who just said, "thanks for helping us win a cup, but we want to get younger and cheaper".


This only applies to the Yammo move. Kostin was a one and done, easily replaced player. He actually is a player with no value.


The buyout was a real possibility and ultimately the lazy move. It did not happen.

Quote:

Not to make the team as good as possible, but to reach his desired outcomes.


What happens if his desired outcome is to make the team as good as possible? I am no Holland fanboy, but this narrative that his team is lost at sea is a bit conjecture. I thought Holland has made some decent moves in the last calendar year (I am completely ignoring the Campbell albatross).

We also turned a 5th into Grubbe, which is kinda move up on the draft board. Also I am not sure if anyone noticed but the draft floor was relatively quiet with GM's holding onto their picks.


I would assume that Campbell is putting in a ton of work this offseason to improve his game. So if Campbell gets his game back to in the .912 range that he was for most of his career, is his contract an albatross? I have no idea if he can do it but it's hard to say the contract is bad after only 1 season.


Campbell’s career games played are very small. The eye test and his reputation that followed him here are my barometer for future success. A streaky goalie who when his confidence dips gets worse

I have very little faith that he will take back the starter’s position. I hope this gets flagged and thrown back in my face. I want to be wrong.

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 Re: Yams & Klim to Det [message #824745 is a reply to message #824738 ]
Thu, 29 June 2023 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:22



The core is set. I would like to see Kane moved, but this what we can expect going forward. We are papering over our holes on a year to year basis. The bottom 6 will have a couple changes. The top 6 will have a player slide in and out. The core is there to stay for the parade.

The defense is the question mark.

Another thought. Would you rather have a set roster with no wiggle room, or some cap space for deadline acquisitions? Some Ekholm-like deals will be available in the spring of 2024.


The core is set, but the core isn't good enough to win. Yammo is not the reason the Oilers aren't a real contender. We're tinkering around the edges on our Indy car and wondering why the F1 teams blow us out of the water.

I want wiggle room. All day, everyday. An organization has to be able to move and adapt as unforeseen circumstances inevitably arise. Unfortunately the Oilers, because of mismanagement, have bought themselves exactly 2 days of wiggle room. They're looking at another season with a 21 man roster because it's set in stone. I figuratively eat my hat if if the Cap Space isn't spent and the roster isn't basically set by Saturday night.

inverno76 wrote on Thu, 29 June 2023 15:17



What happens if his desired outcome is to make the team as good as possible? I am no Holland fanboy, but this narrative that his team is lost at sea is a bit conjecture. I thought Holland has made some decent moves in the last calendar year (I am completely ignoring the Campbell albatross).

We also turned a 5th into Grubbe, which is kinda move up on the draft board. Also I am not sure if anyone noticed but the draft floor was relatively quiet with GM's holding onto their picks.



I have no doubt Ken would like to make the team as good as possible. Where I have my doubts is his ability to make that happen. He certainly has a plan, but I've seen nothing to suggest that his plan will manifest as anywhere good enough on the ice. Swapping out an overpriced Yammo for whatever deck chair he has in mind Saturday isn't going to move the team's needle. He simply has a plan and hope.


Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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