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2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824423]	Tue, 20 June 2023 13:31

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Figure we could use a new thread about rumors and keep all the Holland fail talk separate :) Also for things around the rest of the league.

Do we still trust Servalli?

Karman Gill @Kgill39
Oilers Now - Seravalli has Foegele, Yamamoto and Ceci on the Trade Targets board.
- Oilers have gotten enough calls to not buy out all 3 players. He said they are in a good spot to move them.
- Oilers are looking to trade a couple of these pieces away to gain cap room

I'm up to move all 3.

Foegele we can do a rare thing and sell high, crazy thought for the Oilers. I don't think he's hard to replaceable for what he makes.

Ceci I just do not like as a match for Nurse, and we badly need a proper fit for the Nurse pairing if we're gonna survive a playoff run.

Yams, struggled so hard, concussion issues, body getting beat up. I don't think he has a frame to bulk up like some of the small guys with longevity in the league and I can't see him ever be a heads up dangler like Gaudreau. He's gonna get rocked over and over. I think I'm OK to move him. If he figures it out somewhere else, good for him.

We could really use all that cap space (using it properly a dif discussion)

[Updated on: Tue, 20 June 2023 13:33]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824424 is a reply to message #824423 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 13:34

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

They weren't considering buying three players out, were they? I can't imagine getting out of dead cap space hell just to jump right back in.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824425 is a reply to message #824424 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 13:35

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:34

They weren't considering buying three players out, were they? I can't imagine getting out of dead cap space hell just to jump right back in.

lol, what a going away present that would have been from Holland. I guess it is Oilers GM tradition to leave a smoking crater behind.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824426 is a reply to message #824425 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 13:37

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:35

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:34

They weren't considering buying three players out, were they? I can't imagine getting out of dead cap space hell just to jump right back in.

lol, what a going away present that would have been from Holland. I guess it is Oilers GM tradition to leave a smoking crater behind.

That would have closed the window for 2025, leaving only 2024 to go ahead with a small yoke around the neck and a whole bunch of questions. I can't imagine even the Oilers would be that foolish. I refuse to believe it.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824450 is a reply to message #824425 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 10:18

Steve
Messages: 113
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 12:35

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:34

They weren't considering buying three players out, were they? I can't imagine getting out of dead cap space hell just to jump right back in.

lol, what a going away present that would have been from Holland. I guess it is Oilers GM tradition to leave a smoking crater behind.

That's a noteworthy thought. If Holland knows this is his last year, he might make some extreme moves to go all-in and mortgage the future (more than he has already). I think most of us are on board with this. If he wins Stanley, we will forgive, but if he sinks them it could be a long path out of the darkness.

One thing that might stop him is if Brad is going to be the next GM. He wouldn't want to set his son up for failure.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

- Calvin

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824437 is a reply to message #824423 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 15:16

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I am fine to move Yamo. I have said it many times.

Foegele I like a lot of what he brings when he's on but I just wish he was cheaper. The only thing that scares me about him is if he ever figured out any kind of hands, with the amount of breakaways he gets, he could score 20 goals.

Ceci, I am fine to move him, you just have to have a replacement and that replacement can't be costing much more than the 3.25 he makes now. When healthy, he showed he could be a top 4 guy and give you OK mins. So it will be tough to replace him at that price point. I doubt this would happen but could they come up with a package that sends the Canes Ceci + and bring back Pesce for a year? Pesce is the better dman but Ceci is signed to a value contract which the Canes would like plus when healthy, Ceci is a top 4, probably a #4. I don't think Pesce would resign as he's an American but you never know I guess but it would be an upgrade for 1 season.

[Updated on: Tue, 20 June 2023 15:20]

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824444 is a reply to message #824423 ]	Tue, 20 June 2023 16:30

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 14:59

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

I am basing it off the 12 games this playoff where he scored a pathetic 1 goal in 12 games.
I am basing it off of 17 playoffs were in 13 games he was zero goals and 4 assists.
I am basing it off of a player who in 12 yrs, all but 2 (rookie and this past) of them were pretty mediocre. All of them needed other players to prop him up and carry him to have any kind of success.

Moving this here to leave poor Zack Kassian his own thread.

While I get that some people are disappointed that Nuge didn't score 20 points in the post-season, I think it's a stretch to suggest he was "pathetic". I also think that anyone wanting to flush him has to think whether or not you can replace his contributions with someone who costs the same or less.

We have one hole already in the Top-Six that can't likely be adequately replaced with internal candidates. I'm not sure blowing another hole makes sense - especially when you consider that #93 has a full no-move clause, so he'd have to be okay with moving on and could blow up any deal.

Probably best to accept that he's part of the team for next year and hopefully some Edmonton "fans" will stop cheerleading for him to fail as their next great scapegoat.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824454 is a reply to message #824444 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 11:06

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 15:30

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 14:59

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 20 June 2023 13:18

I can't believe you're basing that off of 12 bad games.

I am basing it off the 12 games this playoff where he scored a pathetic 1 goal in 12 games.
I am basing it off of 17 playoffs were in 13 games he was zero goals and 4 assists.
I am basing it off of a player who in 12 yrs, all but 2 (rookie and this past) of them were pretty mediocre. All of them needed other players to prop him up and carry him to have any kind of success.

Moving this here to leave poor Zack Kassian his own thread.

While I get that some people are disappointed that Nuge didn't score 20 points in the post-season, I think it's a stretch to suggest he was "pathetic". I also think that anyone wanting to flush him has to think whether or not you can replace his contributions with someone who costs the same or less.

We have one hole already in the Top-Six that can't likely be adequately replaced with internal candidates. I'm not sure blowing another hole makes sense - especially when you consider that #93 has a full no-move clause, so he'd have to be okay with moving on and could blow up any deal.

Probably best to accept that he's part of the team for next year and hopefully some Edmonton "fans" will stop cheerleading for him to fail as their next great scapegoat.

100% agree. Nuge is what he is, he's a complimentary player who can help your power play and play multiple positions. Is he an elite play driver that can dominate games on his own? No, of course not, but he's not making $9M a season. He's completely appropriately paid for what he brings.

I took a look at total points since Nuge entered the league, and he's 31st with 632 points in 801 games. In the past 5 years, he's also 31st overall in points with 319 points in 344 games. Hardly mediocre.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824452 is a reply to message #824423 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 10:27

Steve
Messages: 113
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa

No Cups

I think Yams and Foegele are replaceable. Ceci struggled, but RHD don't grow on trees. The Oilers need improvement and better depth at the position.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

- Calvin

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824453 is a reply to message #824452 ]	Wed, 21 June 2023 10:37

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Steve wrote on Wed, 21 June 2023 10:27

I think Yams and Foegele are replaceable. Ceci struggled, but RHD don't grow on trees. The Oilers need improvement and better depth at the position.

If the Oilers look at Yamo and Foegele as what they are, 3rd line players who can chip in 12-15 goals, 30-35pts, maybe kill some penalties, you should be able to find guys that can do that and not cost you more than 2 mill.

Take Janmark as an example. The Oilers signed him last year to a 1 yr 1.25 mill deal and in 66 games he scored 10 goals, 25 pts and was good on the PK. In 82, that's 12 goals, 31 pts. So there will be players out there able to replace the offense that Yamo and Foegele put up for much less than what those 2 make.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824555 is a reply to message #824423 ]	Mon, 26 June 2023 14:58

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

We could get an early spanking this summer with negotiations. Kostin has the same agent as Kaprizov, Panarin and Bobrovski. He worked the back to Russia angle nicely to get Kaprizov a nice contract. He's working over Holland now what a narrative Kostin may want to bail. I think Holland and the org love their Kostin, so this is a hard negotiation for Holland to pull off without an overpay

Bummer.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824556 is a reply to message #824555 ]	Mon, 26 June 2023 15:07

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I'd be comfortable on a 2 yr deal paying him 1.25 this yr and 1.5 next. I'm not going any higher than that. If he can get more in the KHL, more power too him. He was making league min last year and started in the AHL. He's got a good role on this team, the City loves him. Don't get greedy Klim.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824557 is a reply to message #824556 ]	Mon, 26 June 2023 15:09

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 15:07

I'd be comfortable on a 2 yr deal paying him 1.25 this yr and 1.5 next. I'm not going any higher than that. If he can get more in the KHL, more power too him. He was making league min last year and started in the AHL. He's got a good role on this team, the City loves him. Don't get greedy Klim.

I'm really doubting he can get even close to 1M+ from the KHL (highest paid KHLer makes 1.5M USD, elite long time guys make ~1.2M max), plus he has to worry about inflation and all the other fun stuff that could come from playing there.

But I guess all that is important is what his agent can convince Holland of.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824558 is a reply to message #824557 ]	Mon, 26 June 2023 15:22

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 15:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 15:07

I'd be comfortable on a 2 yr deal paying him 1.25 this yr and 1.5 next. I'm not going any higher than that. If he can get more in the KHL, more power too him. He was making league min last year and started in the AHL. He's got a good role on this team, the City loves him. Don't get greedy Klim.

I'm really doubting he can get even close to 1M+ from the KHL (highest paid KHLer makes 1.5M USD, elite long time guys make ~1.2M max), plus he has to worry about inflation and all the other fun stuff that could come from playing there.

But I guess all that is important is what his agent can convince Holland of.

I have no clue what KHLers make. So according to Holland, they are extremely far apart. I'd love to know what Klim's ask is then.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824562 is a reply to message #824558 ]	Mon, 26 June 2023 16:46

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 15:22

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 15:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 15:07

I'd be comfortable on a 2 yr deal paying him 1.25 this yr and 1.5 next. I'm not going any higher than that. If he can get more in the KHL, more power too him. He was making league min last year and started in the AHL. He's got a good role on this team, the City loves him. Don't get greedy Klim.

I'm really doubting he can get even close to 1M+ from the KHL (highest paid KHLer makes 1.5M USD, elite long time guys make ~1.2M max), plus he has to worry about inflation and all the other fun stuff that could come from playing there.

But I guess all that is important is what his agent can convince Holland of.

I have no clue what KHLers make. So according to Holland, they are extremely far apart. I'd love to know what Klim's ask is then.

Depends on the team. Jagr famously made $20MM/season to play there. Kostin would be significantly less of course.

I feel like while there probably are suitors from the KHL, that this might not be the point in time where young Russian players really want to return to the motherland. There was a sorta-kinda coup attempt in the last few days, after all. And a war on the southern border. And several boycotts and trade embargos in place. That's a lot of instability that I just don't believe most NHL players are super-excited to go run to for a couple hundred grand a year more.

Kostin's a bubble guy. I make him an offer, and then just make plans to spend the money early in July if he hasn't signed it. I wouldn't likely spend much time at all negotiating here. I'd just call this bluff, and if it turns out he really wants to head off to Vladivostok or wherever, then I just wish him well.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824563 is a reply to message #824557 ]	Mon, 26 June 2023 16:47

AndersonRules
Messages: 94
Registered: April 2008
Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma (OKC ar...

No Cups

Wow! I was surprised at your claim to KHL pay, so had to go and check. Not because I doubt your truthfulness, but because it just sounded so absurd. But go figure - the highest pay in the KHL is indeed less than $1.5M. If Kostin is threatening to bolt to the KHL for more money, then I say let him go. Offer him RD's $1.25M (I'd be more comfortable with $1M even) - if he gets greedy, he's gone.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824564 is a reply to message #824563 ]	Mon, 26 June 2023 18:42

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

AndersonRules wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 16:47

Wow! I was surprised at your claim to KHL pay, so had to go and check. Not because I doubt your truthfulness, but because it just sounded so absurd. But go figure - the highest pay in the KHL is indeed less than $1.5M. If Kostin is threatening to bolt to the KHL for more money, then I say let him go. Offer him RD's $1.25M (I'd be more comfortable with $1M even) - if he gets greedy, he's gone.

I think there was a time where KHL guys made a lot more. Especially big name NHL guys that would take off there like Kovalchuk. Imagine the league has fallen off a lot since that time though.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824611 is a reply to message #824557 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 16:05

kungpaobenji27
Messages: 340
Registered: August 2003
Location: Irving, Texas

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 16:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 15:07

I'd be comfortable on a 2 yr deal paying him 1.25 this yr and 1.5 next. I'm not going any higher than that. If he can get more in the KHL, more power too him. He was making league min last year and started in the AHL. He's got a good role on this team, the City loves him. Don't get greedy Klim.

I'm really doubting he can get even close to 1M+ from the KHL (highest paid KHLer makes 1.5M USD, elite long time guys make ~1.2M max), plus he has to worry about inflation and all the other fun stuff that could come from playing there.

But I guess all that is important is what his agent can convince Holland of.

Even before the war, Russian ruble has crashed significantly from 2013 till 2018 based on my trips there

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824573 is a reply to message #824555 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 09:09

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 14:58

We could get an early spanking this summer with negotiations. Kostin has the same agent as Kaprizov, Panarin and Bobrovski. He worked the back to Russia angle nicely to get Kaprizov a nice contract. He's working over Holland now what a narrative Kostin may want to bail. I think Holland and the org love their Kostin, so this is a hard negotiation for Holland to pull off without an overpay

Bummer.

That's like having a Porsche and Ford Taurus on the same parking lot and expecting them to have the same value, because they are being sold by the same dealership. Klim is a durable player, but easily replaced by a lot of comparable family sedans on the market. Kaprizov is high a end talent who is a center piece to almost any garage.

If the Kostin negotiation get difficult then walk away and find something else in a similar make, year and model. No one will lose sleep over losing him.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824575 is a reply to message #824573 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 09:31

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 09:09

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 14:58

We could get an early spanking this summer with negotiations. Kostin has the same agent as Kaprizov, Panarin and Bobrovski. He worked the back to Russia angle nicely to get Kaprizov a nice contract. He's working over Holland now what a narrative Kostin may want to bail. I think Holland and the org love their Kostin, so this is a hard negotiation for Holland to pull off without an overpay

Bummer.

That's like having a Porsche and Ford Taurus on the same parking lot and expecting them to have the same value, because they are being sold by the same dealership. Klim is a durable player, but easily replaced by a lot of comparable family sedans on the market. Kaprizov is high a end talent who is a center piece to almost any garage.

If the Kostin negotiation get difficult then walk away and find something else in a similar make, year and model. No one will lose sleep over losing him.

Hey some used car salesmen can swindle people to pay way over value for mediocre cars.

Not saying Klim gets elite player money but his agent clearly knows how to play up the bolt to Russia angle. We just know his agent is no pushover. You may be ok walking on Klim, but are Holland and our org? He was extremely popular in the room and brings elements this org had always been in love with. Do we call his agents bluff, or do we act like the same team that gave kassian stupid money. We shall see.

[Updated on: Tue, 27 June 2023 09:34]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824576 is a reply to message #824575 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 09:35

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 09:31

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 09:09

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 14:58

We could get an early spanking this summer with negotiations. Kostin has the same agent as Kaprizov, Panarin and Bobrovski. He worked the back to Russia angle nicely to get Kaprizov a nice contract. He's working over Holland now what a narrative Kostin may want to bail. I think Holland and the org love their Kostin, so this is a hard negotiation for Holland to pull off without an overpay

Bummer.

That's like having a Porsche and Ford Taurus on the same parking lot and expecting them to have the same value, because they are being sold by the same dealership. Klim is a durable player, but easily replaced by a lot of comparable family sedans on the market. Kaprizov is high a end talent who is a center piece to almost any garage.

If the Kostin negotiation get difficult then walk away and find something else in a similar make, year and model. No one will lose sleep over losing him.

Hey some used car salesmen can swindle people to pay way over value for mediocre cars.

Not saying Klim gets elite player money but his agent clearly knows how to play up the bolt to Russia angle. You may be ok walking on Klim, but are Holland and our org? He was extremely popular in the room and brings elements this org had always been in love with.

You are not wrong, but if they use the analytics stats that they say they do (regardless of the small staff as it just takes a simple google search to see the underlying numbers) then I think they will move past his locker room intangibles if he gets too pricey. They proved it with Tyson Barrie last season. Let us see if it was a one off?

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824578 is a reply to message #824575 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 09:40

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 09:31

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 27 June 2023 09:09

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 26 June 2023 14:58

We could get an early spanking this summer with negotiations. Kostin has the same agent as Kaprizov, Panarin and Bobrovski. He worked the back to Russia angle nicely to get Kaprizov a nice contract. He's working over Holland now what a narrative Kostin may want to bail. I think Holland and the org love their Kostin, so this is a hard negotiation for Holland to pull off without an overpay

Bummer.

That's like having a Porsche and Ford Taurus on the same parking lot and expecting them to have the same value, because they are being sold by the same dealership. Klim is a durable player, but easily replaced by a lot of comparable family sedans on the market. Kaprizov is high a end talent who is a center piece to almost any garage.

If the Kostin negotiation get difficult then walk away and find something else in a similar make, year and model. No one will lose sleep over losing him.

Hey some used car salesmen can swindle people to pay way over value for mediocre cars.

Not saying Klim gets elite player money but his agent clearly knows how to play up the bolt to Russia angle. We just know his agent is no pushover. You may be ok walking on Klim, but are Holland and our org? He was extremely popular in the room and brings elements this org had always been in love with. Do we call his agents bluff, or do we act like the same team that gave kassian stupid money. We shall see.

It will be interesting to see. Given the numbers on KHL salaries, if Kostin has a 7-figure salary, that probably indicates that we caved. If it's $1.2MM or higher, then there is no doubt at all.

Maybe he's asking for the third year rather than the standard 2-year Holland deal?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824593 is a reply to message #824578 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 11:49

lowebudget
Messages: 12
Registered: October 2004

No Cups

Just spitballing here, but I wonder if the Flyers would have an appetite for acquiring the rights to Kostin for Nic Deslauriers (50% retained)?

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824612 is a reply to message #824593 ]	Tue, 27 June 2023 16:18

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

When Wheeler gets bought out, I wonder if he would take a dirt cheap 1 yr deal to try for a cup? He will be 37 in Aug but he can still play. He's used to playing in a Canadian City and Winnipeg is even smaller than Edmonton. A 6'5, 225 right winger that moves around decent and has lots of skill and experience might look real nice in the Oilers top 6. He had 55 pts in 72 games last year.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824836 is a reply to message #824423 ]	Sat, 01 July 2023 09:41

NetBOG
Messages: 2944
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

Darren Dreger saying Connor Brown probably coming to Oilers on a bonus heavy deal and (I think) Matt Nieto as well.(he kind of mumbled the name and closed captioning didn't pick it up)

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824837 is a reply to message #824423 ]	Sat, 01 July 2023 10:03

NetBOG
Messages: 2944
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown

2 Cups

Dreger now saying Oilers had a deal with Nieto and somebody backed out. Nieto signs with Pittsburgh.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #824865 is a reply to message #824837 ]	Sat, 01 July 2023 16:53

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

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NetBOG wrote on Sat, 01 July 2023 10:03

Dreger now saying Oilers had a deal with Nieto and somebody backed out. Nieto signs with Pittsburgh.

Shades of Nylander

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825085 is a reply to message #824423 ]	Thu, 27 July 2023 20:34

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Kypreos thinks Matthews will get 13.5M, but the term is being argued about. Suggests Matthews wants another short term deal.

Arizona really f'd things up for themselves. If they had their ducks in a row Matthews probably comes home, but now he has to try to bide his time in Toronto for another few years.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825101 is a reply to message #825085 ]	Mon, 31 July 2023 11:26

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2023 20:34

Kypreos thinks Matthews will get 13.5M, but the term is being argued about. Suggests Matthews wants another short term deal.

Arizona really f'd things up for themselves. If they had their ducks in a row Matthews probably comes home, but now he has to try to bide his time in Toronto for another few years.

Or he wants to maximize his career earnings? 8 year deals are more beneficial to the team than the mega-star.

The story line of superstars wanting out of Canada in their primes is a false narrative. The climbing Cap is a consideration I would be contemplating if I were one of Matthews, McDavid, etc.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825103 is a reply to message #825101 ]	Mon, 31 July 2023 11:58

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:26

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2023 20:34

Kypreos thinks Matthews will get 13.5M, but the term is being argued about. Suggests Matthews wants another short term deal.

Arizona really f'd things up for themselves. If they had their ducks in a row Matthews probably comes home, but now he has to try to bide his time in Toronto for another few years.

Or he wants to maximize his career earnings? 8 year deals are more beneficial to the team than the mega-star.

The story line of superstars wanting out of Canada in their primes is a false narrative. The climbing Cap is a consideration I would be contemplating if I were one of Matthews, McDavid, etc.

That's Matthews home, not just out of Canada. Just coyotes are too much of a disaster for it to be palletable right now. Think he still goes back there ever summer to moon female cops after midnight.

For max earnings and his endless wrist injuries, I'm wondering if setting himself up for another contract at 31 is really the way to max earnings. He can get 13.5M until he is 34 years old now with an 8 year deal with a nice fat front load of signing bonuses.

[Updated on: Mon, 31 July 2023 12:00]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825105 is a reply to message #825103 ]	Mon, 31 July 2023 14:22

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:58

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:26

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2023 20:34

Kypreos thinks Matthews will get 13.5M, but the term is being argued about. Suggests Matthews wants another short term deal.

Arizona really f'd things up for themselves. If they had their ducks in a row Matthews probably comes home, but now he has to try to bide his time in Toronto for another few years.

Or he wants to maximize his career earnings? 8 year deals are more beneficial to the team than the mega-star.

The story line of superstars wanting out of Canada in their primes is a false narrative. The climbing Cap is a consideration I would be contemplating if I were one of Matthews, McDavid, etc.

That's Matthews home, not just out of Canada. Just coyotes are too much of a disaster for it to be palletable right now. Think he still goes back there ever summer to moon female cops after midnight.

For max earnings and his endless wrist injuries, I'm wondering if setting himself up for another contract at 31 is really the way to max earnings. He can get 13.5M until he is 34 years old now with an 8 year deal with a nice fat front load of signing bonuses.

Lots of players go home for the off-season. Frick, even Robyn Regehr came back to Saskatchewan every summer and it didn't mean he wanted to play closer to home. Dave Manson resides in Prince Albert, Sask. and has his entire career, (#3 crime rate in Canada). Thank god Germany does not have an NHL team.

The Matthews narrative has been fostered by people who hate the Leafs, just like the McDavid garbage. It is plausible, but rarely the case.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825109 is a reply to message #825105 ]	Tue, 01 August 2023 08:34

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 14:22

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:58

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:26

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2023 20:34

Kypreos thinks Matthews will get 13.5M, but the term is being argued about. Suggests Matthews wants another short term deal.

Arizona really f'd things up for themselves. If they had their ducks in a row Matthews probably comes home, but now he has to try to bide his time in Toronto for another few years.

Or he wants to maximize his career earnings? 8 year deals are more beneficial to the team than the mega-star.

The story line of superstars wanting out of Canada in their primes is a false narrative. The climbing Cap is a consideration I would be contemplating if I were one of Matthews, McDavid, etc.

That's Matthews home, not just out of Canada. Just coyotes are too much of a disaster for it to be palletable right now. Think he still goes back there ever summer to moon female cops after midnight.

For max earnings and his endless wrist injuries, I'm wondering if setting himself up for another contract at 31 is really the way to max earnings. He can get 13.5M until he is 34 years old now with an 8 year deal with a nice fat front load of signing bonuses.

Lots of players go home for the off-season. Frick, even Robyn Regehr came back to Saskatchewan every summer and it didn't mean he wanted to play closer to home. Dave Manson resides in Prince Albert, Sask. and has his entire career, (#3 crime rate in Canada). Thank god Germany does not have an NHL team.

The Matthews narrative has been fostered by people who hate the Leafs, just like the McDavid garbage. It is plausible, but rarely the case.

Just wait and see. Matthews is going to perfectly set himself up to be a home town hero. Just a few more years of the NHL figuring out how to use the rest of the leagues money to fix up the Arizona situation.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825111 is a reply to message #825109 ]	Tue, 01 August 2023 09:18

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 01 August 2023 08:34

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 14:22

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:58

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:26

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2023 20:34

Kypreos thinks Matthews will get 13.5M, but the term is being argued about. Suggests Matthews wants another short term deal.

Arizona really f'd things up for themselves. If they had their ducks in a row Matthews probably comes home, but now he has to try to bide his time in Toronto for another few years.

Or he wants to maximize his career earnings? 8 year deals are more beneficial to the team than the mega-star.

The story line of superstars wanting out of Canada in their primes is a false narrative. The climbing Cap is a consideration I would be contemplating if I were one of Matthews, McDavid, etc.

That's Matthews home, not just out of Canada. Just coyotes are too much of a disaster for it to be palletable right now. Think he still goes back there ever summer to moon female cops after midnight.

For max earnings and his endless wrist injuries, I'm wondering if setting himself up for another contract at 31 is really the way to max earnings. He can get 13.5M until he is 34 years old now with an 8 year deal with a nice fat front load of signing bonuses.

Lots of players go home for the off-season. Frick, even Robyn Regehr came back to Saskatchewan every summer and it didn't mean he wanted to play closer to home. Dave Manson resides in Prince Albert, Sask. and has his entire career, (#3 crime rate in Canada). Thank god Germany does not have an NHL team.

The Matthews narrative has been fostered by people who hate the Leafs, just like the McDavid garbage. It is plausible, but rarely the case.

Just wait and see. Matthews is going to perfectly set himself up to be a home town hero. Just a few more years of the NHL figuring out how to use the rest of the leagues money to fix up the Arizona situation.

I am in Edmonton lots for work. Burger and a beer on it? Someone with a good memory will have to remind us.

Now if Matthews married a local Arizona girl, or any American girl I would be a it more cautious. The ladies have a lot to say on long-term UFA destinations.

Lauren Kyle and Celeste Desjardins are both from Sudbury. I would be more scared of this being a reason to move to Toronto than a Cup chase. Katz better offer up some rich friends to keep Lauren's interior design business busy in Edmonton, and how is the OEG doing? Still making movies that could star a talented Canadian girl?

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825113 is a reply to message #825111 ]	Tue, 01 August 2023 09:29

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 01 August 2023 09:18

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 01 August 2023 08:34

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 14:22

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:58

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:26

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2023 20:34

Kypreos thinks Matthews will get 13.5M, but the term is being argued about. Suggests Matthews wants another short term deal.

Arizona really f'd things up for themselves. If they had their ducks in a row Matthews probably comes home, but now he has to try to bide his time in Toronto for another few years.

Or he wants to maximize his career earnings? 8 year deals are more beneficial to the team than the mega-star.

The story line of superstars wanting out of Canada in their primes is a false narrative. The climbing Cap is a consideration I would be contemplating if I were one of Matthews, McDavid, etc.

That's Matthews home, not just out of Canada. Just coyotes are too much of a disaster for it to be palletable right now. Think he still goes back there ever summer to moon female cops after midnight.

For max earnings and his endless wrist injuries, I'm wondering if setting himself up for another contract at 31 is really the way to max earnings. He can get 13.5M until he is 34 years old now with an 8 year deal with a nice fat front load of signing bonuses.

Lots of players go home for the off-season. Frick, even Robyn Regehr came back to Saskatchewan every summer and it didn't mean he wanted to play closer to home. Dave Manson resides in Prince Albert, Sask. and has his entire career, (#3 crime rate in Canada). Thank god Germany does not have an NHL team.

The Matthews narrative has been fostered by people who hate the Leafs, just like the McDavid garbage. It is plausible, but rarely the case.

Just wait and see. Matthews is going to perfectly set himself up to be a home town hero. Just a few more years of the NHL figuring out how to use the rest of the leagues money to fix up the Arizona situation.

I am in Edmonton lots for work. Burger and a beer on it? Someone with a good memory will have to remind us.

Now if Matthews married a local Arizona girl, or any American girl I would be a it more cautious. The ladies have a lot to say on long-term UFA destinations.

Lauren Kyle and Celeste Desjardins are both from Sudbury. I would be more scared of this being a reason to move to Toronto than a Cup chase. Katz better offer up some rich friends to keep Lauren's interior design business busy in Edmonton, and how is the OEG doing? Still making movies that could star a talented Canadian girl?

Risky, attaching actual penalties to Leafs bashing :) K, someone on here will remember I bet.

Come on Matthews, 3-4 year deal, that should be perfect timing for the 8 year homecoming deal icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825345 is a reply to message #825113 ]	Fri, 25 August 2023 13:15

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 01 August 2023 09:29

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 01 August 2023 09:18

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 01 August 2023 08:34

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 14:22

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:58

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:26

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2023 20:34

Kypreos thinks Matthews will get 13.5M, but the term is being argued about. Suggests Matthews wants another short term deal.

Arizona really f'd things up for themselves. If they had their ducks in a row Matthews probably comes home, but now he has to try to bide his time in Toronto for another few years.

Or he wants to maximize his career earnings? 8 year deals are more beneficial to the team than the mega-star.

The story line of superstars wanting out of Canada in their primes is a false narrative. The climbing Cap is a consideration I would be contemplating if I were one of Matthews, McDavid, etc.

That's Matthews home, not just out of Canada. Just coyotes are too much of a disaster for it to be palletable right now. Think he still goes back there ever summer to moon female cops after midnight.

For max earnings and his endless wrist injuries, I'm wondering if setting himself up for another contract at 31 is really the way to max earnings. He can get 13.5M until he is 34 years old now with an 8 year deal with a nice fat front load of signing bonuses.

Lots of players go home for the off-season. Frick, even Robyn Regehr came back to Saskatchewan every summer and it didn't mean he wanted to play closer to home. Dave Manson resides in Prince Albert, Sask. and has his entire career, (#3 crime rate in Canada). Thank god Germany does not have an NHL team.

The Matthews narrative has been fostered by people who hate the Leafs, just like the McDavid garbage. It is plausible, but rarely the case.

Just wait and see. Matthews is going to perfectly set himself up to be a home town hero. Just a few more years of the NHL figuring out how to use the rest of the leagues money to fix up the Arizona situation.

I am in Edmonton lots for work. Burger and a beer on it? Someone with a good memory will have to remind us.

Now if Matthews married a local Arizona girl, or any American girl I would be a it more cautious. The ladies have a lot to say on long-term UFA destinations.

Lauren Kyle and Celeste Desjardins are both from Sudbury. I would be more scared of this being a reason to move to Toronto than a Cup chase. Katz better offer up some rich friends to keep Lauren's interior design business busy in Edmonton, and how is the OEG doing? Still making movies that could star a talented Canadian girl?

Risky, attaching actual penalties to Leafs bashing :) K, someone on here will remember I bet.

Come on Matthews, 3-4 year deal, that should be perfect timing for the 8 year homecoming deal icon_biggrin

icon_biggrin

So far we are both correct, I said he will still be in Canada and signing a short term deal, which you agreed and you almost nailed the AAV. The summer of 2028 will be interesting ... With inflation it may be smart for you to start saving now because I want my burger and a beer at an Oilers game..

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825115 is a reply to message #825111 ]	Tue, 01 August 2023 09:32

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 01 August 2023 09:18

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 01 August 2023 08:34

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 14:22

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:58

inverno76 wrote on Mon, 31 July 2023 11:26

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 27 July 2023 20:34

Kypreos thinks Matthews will get 13.5M, but the term is being argued about. Suggests Matthews wants another short term deal.

Arizona really f'd things up for themselves. If they had their ducks in a row Matthews probably comes home, but now he has to try to bide his time in Toronto for another few years.

Or he wants to maximize his career earnings? 8 year deals are more beneficial to the team than the mega-star.

The story line of superstars wanting out of Canada in their primes is a false narrative. The climbing Cap is a consideration I would be contemplating if I were one of Matthews, McDavid, etc.

That's Matthews home, not just out of Canada. Just coyotes are too much of a disaster for it to be palletable right now. Think he still goes back there ever summer to moon female cops after midnight.

For max earnings and his endless wrist injuries, I'm wondering if setting himself up for another contract at 31 is really the way to max earnings. He can get 13.5M until he is 34 years old now with an 8 year deal with a nice fat front load of signing bonuses.

Lots of players go home for the off-season. Frick, even Robyn Regehr came back to Saskatchewan every summer and it didn't mean he wanted to play closer to home. Dave Manson resides in Prince Albert, Sask. and has his entire career, (#3 crime rate in Canada). Thank god Germany does not have an NHL team.

The Matthews narrative has been fostered by people who hate the Leafs, just like the McDavid garbage. It is plausible, but rarely the case.

Just wait and see. Matthews is going to perfectly set himself up to be a home town hero. Just a few more years of the NHL figuring out how to use the rest of the leagues money to fix up the Arizona situation.

I am in Edmonton lots for work. Burger and a beer on it? Someone with a good memory will have to remind us.

Now if Matthews married a local Arizona girl, or any American girl I would be a it more cautious. The ladies have a lot to say on long-term UFA destinations.

Lauren Kyle and Celeste Desjardins are both from Sudbury. I would be more scared of this being a reason to move to Toronto than a Cup chase. Katz better offer up some rich friends to keep Lauren's interior design business busy in Edmonton, and how is the OEG doing? Still making movies that could star a talented Canadian girl?

Toronto is a miserable place to play. You're in a giant fishbowl. Massive city, but you're recognized everywhere, and you always have those mouth-breathers Simmons and Cox writing hatchet pieces about you. Dealing with those contemptible fools on a day-to-day basis is enough reason for anyone to want out.

For Matthews, he'll get his paycheque wherever he goes, so he doesn't have to put up with that. And they just flushed the management in favour of a guy who thinks that Ryan Reaves was the missing ingredient...

Not to mention half the team is UFA next summer, so it's a crap shoot who is still there if he decides to stay. It'll be interesting to see what happens, given that he's got full no-move now. He holds all the cards, so anything that happens this year will be on his terms now. It's pretty incredible that the Leafs managed to get themselves over this barrel.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825233 is a reply to message #825115 ]	Tue, 15 August 2023 12:52

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

If Bouchard doesn't sign a deal and holds out into the season (as he has no arb rights), does his value get diminished if we prove to run a reasonably potent powerplay without him?

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825234 is a reply to message #825233 ]	Tue, 15 August 2023 13:10

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 15 August 2023 12:52

If Bouchard doesn't sign a deal and holds out into the season (as he has no arb rights), does his value get diminished if we prove to run a reasonably potent powerplay without him?

That should be the argument used, and it also should be used in current negotiations. We ran an elite PP without Bouchard for an extended period of seasons and utilized with multiple QB's during that time.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825235 is a reply to message #825234 ]	Tue, 15 August 2023 15:05

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

The market was set with Byram 2 yrs, 3.85 and Miller 2 yrs 3.872. Those are the high marks in my opinion. Both of those guys are similar age. Miller put up almost the same points with a couple more goals. Byram only played 42 games dues to injury but if you take what he scored in 42 games, 10G-24, he would have scored WAY more goals than Bouchard and had more points.

Both those guys played more mins than Bouchard by a lot. Almost 3 mins. Both of those guys played on the PK where as Bouchard hardly played any. AND Bouchard gets way more sugar time on the Oilers PP, that is setting records in the NHL. So both of those 2 are scoring most of their points 5 on 5 which is harder to do.

So in my opinion, I don't see what the hold up for Bouchard is. There is 2 young, top 4 dmen who just signed. Both score as much as Bouchard so far, play significantly more mins, both play on the PK and both get way less time on the PP than Bouchard does. So if you are bridging him which really there is no choice for the Oilers, Bouchard shouldn't be making more than them based on where he is at right now. Plus supposedly McD told the team that to win, everyone has to take a little less. So do your part, take your 3.75 or less, know you are going to rack up the points getting your sugar time on the Oilers PP and crush the homerun that will be your next deal with maybe a ring on your finger to further up your value.

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Re: 2023-24 Speculation Thread [message #825236 is a reply to message #825235 ]	Tue, 15 August 2023 15:23

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 15 August 2023 15:05

The market was set with Byram 2 yrs, 3.85 and Miller 2 yrs 3.872. Those are the high marks in my opinion. Both of those guys are similar age. Miller put up almost the same points with a couple more goals. Byram only played 42 games dues to injury but if you take what he scored in 42 games, 10G-24, he would have scored WAY more goals than Bouchard and had more points.

Both those guys played more mins than Bouchard by a lot. Almost 3 mins. Both of those guys played on the PK where as Bouchard hardly played any. AND Bouchard gets way more sugar time on the Oilers PP, that is setting records in the NHL. So both of those 2 are scoring most of their points 5 on 5 which is harder to do.

So in my opinion, I don't see what the hold up for Bouchard is. There is 2 young, top 4 dmen who just signed. Both score as much as Bouchard so far, play significantly more mins, both play on the PK and both get way less time on the PP than Bouchard does. So if you are bridging him which really there is no choice for the Oilers, Bouchard shouldn't be making more than them based on where he is at right now. Plus supposedly McD told the team that to win, everyone has to take a little less. So do your part, take your 3.75 or less, know you are going to rack up the points getting your sugar time on the Oilers PP and crush the homerun that will be your next deal with maybe a ring on your finger to further up your value.

Another year where the plan will have to be starting with a 21 man roster. Starting to look like the Oilers will have to send Holloway down to clear cap space for Bouchard which will inevitably cause the same problem with his next contract.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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