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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #822999 is a reply to message #822209 ]
Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823009 is a reply to message #822999 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823016 is a reply to message #823009 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


Everyone talks about the big, bad Carolina Hurricanes - known throughout the league to be a team built around gritting out wins one shot block and one hit at a time!

Oh, would that the Devils had thought to trade for some meaty third line grit that would have increased their average team size so that they could have dispatched with the lowly Rangers (just 107 points!) faster, and not been pushed aside by the 113-point Carolina Hurricanes.

And just look at this bruising roster from the Hurricanes! https://www.nhl.com/hurricanes/roster I mean, yeah, Aho and a lot of their other main guys are right around 6', but Puljujarvi is 6'4! How do you compete with that?



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823020 is a reply to message #823016 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Adam wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 10:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


Everyone talks about the big, bad Carolina Hurricanes - known throughout the league to be a team built around gritting out wins one shot block and one hit at a time!

Oh, would that the Devils had thought to trade for some meaty third line grit that would have increased their average team size so that they could have dispatched with the lowly Rangers (just 107 points!) faster, and not been pushed aside by the 113-point Carolina Hurricanes.

And just look at this bruising roster from the Hurricanes! https://www.nhl.com/hurricanes/roster I mean, yeah, Aho and a lot of their other main guys are right around 6', but Puljujarvi is 6'4! How do you compete with that?



It's not nothing to do one bit about hits or being mean and nasty. It's about having the physical size at times to get to the net and win battles when the hockey is harder as it is in the playoffs.

Devils lines as per daily faceoff
Palat (194) Hischer (175) Bratt(175)
Meire (220) Hughes (175) Mercer (180)
Haula (194) McLeod (190) Tatat (175)

Canes
Nosen (205) Aho (175) Jarvis (175)
Martinook (196) Kotkaniemi (201) Fast (191)
Drury (174) Staal (220) Necas (189)

The big thing, the Canes defense.
Slavin (207) Burns (230)
Skjei (210) Pesce (206)

Aho at 175 and 26 is going to most likely be stronger than Hughes at 175 and almost 22 because AHo is older, more physically mature and had more years of training. That's called life. When a Devils forward at 175 is driving the net, and a 230lb Burns is standing there, it will be harder for the 175 lbs Hughes to put muscle Burns for a puck when he has 55 lbs on him. That's what I mean when I say size.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823025 is a reply to message #823020 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 11:44

Adam wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 10:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


Everyone talks about the big, bad Carolina Hurricanes - known throughout the league to be a team built around gritting out wins one shot block and one hit at a time!

Oh, would that the Devils had thought to trade for some meaty third line grit that would have increased their average team size so that they could have dispatched with the lowly Rangers (just 107 points!) faster, and not been pushed aside by the 113-point Carolina Hurricanes.

And just look at this bruising roster from the Hurricanes! https://www.nhl.com/hurricanes/roster I mean, yeah, Aho and a lot of their other main guys are right around 6', but Puljujarvi is 6'4! How do you compete with that?



It's not nothing to do one bit about hits or being mean and nasty. It's about having the physical size at times to get to the net and win battles when the hockey is harder as it is in the playoffs.

Devils lines as per daily faceoff
Palat (194) Hischer (175) Bratt(175)
Meire (220) Hughes (175) Mercer (180)
Haula (194) McLeod (190) Tatat (175)

Canes
Nosen (205) Aho (175) Jarvis (175)
Martinook (196) Kotkaniemi (201) Fast (191)
Drury (174) Staal (220) Necas (189)

The big thing, the Canes defense.
Slavin (207) Burns (230)
Skjei (210) Pesce (206)

Aho at 175 and 26 is going to most likely be stronger than Hughes at 175 and almost 22 because AHo is older, more physically mature and had more years of training. That's called life. When a Devils forward at 175 is driving the net, and a 230lb Burns is standing there, it will be harder for the 175 lbs Hughes to put muscle Burns for a puck when he has 55 lbs on him. That's what I mean when I say size.


I realize this is repackaged Stauffer pap, but it's just not really that true. The Devils aren't losing because they're not big enough. I note that you left out the Devils defence which includes 6'6 Dougie Hamilton, 6'6 Kevin Dahl and 6'5 Ryan Graves. All those guys are bigger than all but Burns from the Hurricanes defence.

If you want to argue that the age and experience of the Hurricanes is shining through, then I think that's something I can entertain, but the two teams aren't much different in terms of size, and on the blueline the Devils are objectively bigger so the argument that the fact they aren't barnstorming the playoffs here because they're just a bunch of waterbugs doesn't hold much, erm, water.

The Hurricanes were the second best team in the entire league this year. The Rangers were the 9th best. They are good hockey teams full of good players and neither of them were ever going to be an easy out.

It's actually pretty similar with the Golden Knights/Oilers. We're talking about the best team in the entire Western conference this year so if people thought it was going to be a cakewalk, they were deluding themselves. And because we lose a couple of games it doesn't automatically mean that all of Nugent-Hopkins, Nurse, Yamamoto, Hyman, Bouchard, Skinner, McLeod and others automatically suck at hockey. The old lazy narratives that you've heard a million times from sportscasters are generally all wrong, so we should work to retire them (and the lazy sportscasters for that matter). They were probably wrong in the past too...but there wasn't as many tools to objectively prove that they were wrong.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823027 is a reply to message #823025 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
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Location: edmonton
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Yeah only Yamamoto sucks at hockey. lmao

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823028 is a reply to message #823025 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Adam wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 13:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 11:44

Adam wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 10:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


Everyone talks about the big, bad Carolina Hurricanes - known throughout the league to be a team built around gritting out wins one shot block and one hit at a time!

Oh, would that the Devils had thought to trade for some meaty third line grit that would have increased their average team size so that they could have dispatched with the lowly Rangers (just 107 points!) faster, and not been pushed aside by the 113-point Carolina Hurricanes.

And just look at this bruising roster from the Hurricanes! https://www.nhl.com/hurricanes/roster I mean, yeah, Aho and a lot of their other main guys are right around 6', but Puljujarvi is 6'4! How do you compete with that?



It's not nothing to do one bit about hits or being mean and nasty. It's about having the physical size at times to get to the net and win battles when the hockey is harder as it is in the playoffs.

Devils lines as per daily faceoff
Palat (194) Hischer (175) Bratt(175)
Meire (220) Hughes (175) Mercer (180)
Haula (194) McLeod (190) Tatat (175)

Canes
Nosen (205) Aho (175) Jarvis (175)
Martinook (196) Kotkaniemi (201) Fast (191)
Drury (174) Staal (220) Necas (189)

The big thing, the Canes defense.
Slavin (207) Burns (230)
Skjei (210) Pesce (206)

Aho at 175 and 26 is going to most likely be stronger than Hughes at 175 and almost 22 because AHo is older, more physically mature and had more years of training. That's called life. When a Devils forward at 175 is driving the net, and a 230lb Burns is standing there, it will be harder for the 175 lbs Hughes to put muscle Burns for a puck when he has 55 lbs on him. That's what I mean when I say size.


I realize this is repackaged Stauffer pap, but it's just not really that true. The Devils aren't losing because they're not big enough. I note that you left out the Devils defence which includes 6'6 Dougie Hamilton, 6'6 Kevin Dahl and 6'5 Ryan Graves. All those guys are bigger than all but Burns from the Hurricanes defence.

If you want to argue that the age and experience of the Hurricanes is shining through, then I think that's something I can entertain, but the two teams aren't much different in terms of size, and on the blueline the Devils are objectively bigger so the argument that the fact they aren't barnstorming the playoffs here because they're just a bunch of waterbugs doesn't hold much, erm, water.

The Hurricanes were the second best team in the entire league this year. The Rangers were the 9th best. They are good hockey teams full of good players and neither of them were ever going to be an easy out.

It's actually pretty similar with the Golden Knights/Oilers. We're talking about the best team in the entire Western conference this year so if people thought it was going to be a cakewalk, they were deluding themselves. And because we lose a couple of games it doesn't automatically mean that all of Nugent-Hopkins, Nurse, Yamamoto, Hyman, Bouchard, Skinner, McLeod and others automatically suck at hockey. The old lazy narratives that you've heard a million times from sportscasters are generally all wrong, so we should work to retire them (and the lazy sportscasters for that matter). They were probably wrong in the past too...but there wasn't as many tools to objectively prove that they were wrong.

Point to me in my response did I mention height? I reread it and I didn't say a single thing about height.

I know your default response to me is to group me into "old school guys" in the media but it has nothing to do with Stauffer and his opinions. This is straight up highschool physics. I don't know what you do for a living or what you took in highschool, maybe you didn't take physics so I will try to describe to you as simply as I can.

When you have 2 objects of differing mass coming together. Force = MASS x acceleration. So when the bigger object with more mass is moving, it's going to exert more force than a smaller object. So when the 2 objects collide the small object is going to bounce off the bigger object. I assume you have seen this happen. When you roll 2 rocks towards eachother, the smaller one will bounce off.

So when it comes to hockey players. When you have a 210 lb defender and a 175 lbs forward coming together, more times than not the bigger guy will come away from the play better. The smaller guy has to do way more to win a puck battle than the bigger guy because the bigger guy has more mass. Considering most goals are scored closish to the net, when you have a lot of smaller guys who have to try and get inside a bunch of bigger, heavier defenders like the Canes have, it will be much harder for the smaller guys to get inside and score if the bigger defenders are playing well.

I know Adam, you think you are always right. I know you have zero respect for any media guys. I get it. But when NHL players talk about the game being harder in the playoffs and harder to get inside to score and how you need some size. Then all these former NHL players who all make up the bulk of the color guys and the bulk of hockey panels say the hockey is harder in the playoffs and you need some size to win. When all of the NHL coaches say that you need some size and all of the managers and scouts, all say the same thing. How can ALL the guys who make a living in the NHL be wrong and you, Adam a fan and poster on Oilfans be right?

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823029 is a reply to message #823028 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 14:12

Adam wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 13:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 11:44

Adam wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 10:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


Everyone talks about the big, bad Carolina Hurricanes - known throughout the league to be a team built around gritting out wins one shot block and one hit at a time!

Oh, would that the Devils had thought to trade for some meaty third line grit that would have increased their average team size so that they could have dispatched with the lowly Rangers (just 107 points!) faster, and not been pushed aside by the 113-point Carolina Hurricanes.

And just look at this bruising roster from the Hurricanes! https://www.nhl.com/hurricanes/roster I mean, yeah, Aho and a lot of their other main guys are right around 6', but Puljujarvi is 6'4! How do you compete with that?



It's not nothing to do one bit about hits or being mean and nasty. It's about having the physical size at times to get to the net and win battles when the hockey is harder as it is in the playoffs.

Devils lines as per daily faceoff
Palat (194) Hischer (175) Bratt(175)
Meire (220) Hughes (175) Mercer (180)
Haula (194) McLeod (190) Tatat (175)

Canes
Nosen (205) Aho (175) Jarvis (175)
Martinook (196) Kotkaniemi (201) Fast (191)
Drury (174) Staal (220) Necas (189)

The big thing, the Canes defense.
Slavin (207) Burns (230)
Skjei (210) Pesce (206)

Aho at 175 and 26 is going to most likely be stronger than Hughes at 175 and almost 22 because AHo is older, more physically mature and had more years of training. That's called life. When a Devils forward at 175 is driving the net, and a 230lb Burns is standing there, it will be harder for the 175 lbs Hughes to put muscle Burns for a puck when he has 55 lbs on him. That's what I mean when I say size.


I realize this is repackaged Stauffer pap, but it's just not really that true. The Devils aren't losing because they're not big enough. I note that you left out the Devils defence which includes 6'6 Dougie Hamilton, 6'6 Kevin Dahl and 6'5 Ryan Graves. All those guys are bigger than all but Burns from the Hurricanes defence.

If you want to argue that the age and experience of the Hurricanes is shining through, then I think that's something I can entertain, but the two teams aren't much different in terms of size, and on the blueline the Devils are objectively bigger so the argument that the fact they aren't barnstorming the playoffs here because they're just a bunch of waterbugs doesn't hold much, erm, water.

The Hurricanes were the second best team in the entire league this year. The Rangers were the 9th best. They are good hockey teams full of good players and neither of them were ever going to be an easy out.

It's actually pretty similar with the Golden Knights/Oilers. We're talking about the best team in the entire Western conference this year so if people thought it was going to be a cakewalk, they were deluding themselves. And because we lose a couple of games it doesn't automatically mean that all of Nugent-Hopkins, Nurse, Yamamoto, Hyman, Bouchard, Skinner, McLeod and others automatically suck at hockey. The old lazy narratives that you've heard a million times from sportscasters are generally all wrong, so we should work to retire them (and the lazy sportscasters for that matter). They were probably wrong in the past too...but there wasn't as many tools to objectively prove that they were wrong.

Point to me in my response did I mention height? I reread it and I didn't say a single thing about height.

I know your default response to me is to group me into "old school guys" in the media but it has nothing to do with Stauffer and his opinions. This is straight up highschool physics. I don't know what you do for a living or what you took in highschool, maybe you didn't take physics so I will try to describe to you as simply as I can.

When you have 2 objects of differing mass coming together. Force = MASS x acceleration. So when the bigger object with more mass is moving, it's going to exert more force than a smaller object. So when the 2 objects collide the small object is going to bounce off the bigger object. I assume you have seen this happen. When you roll 2 rocks towards eachother, the smaller one will bounce off.

So when it comes to hockey players. When you have a 210 lb defender and a 175 lbs forward coming together, more times than not the bigger guy will come away from the play better. The smaller guy has to do way more to win a puck battle than the bigger guy because the bigger guy has more mass. Considering most goals are scored closish to the net, when you have a lot of smaller guys who have to try and get inside a bunch of bigger, heavier defenders like the Canes have, it will be much harder for the smaller guys to get inside and score if the bigger defenders are playing well.

I know Adam, you think you are always right. I know you have zero respect for any media guys. I get it. But when NHL players talk about the game being harder in the playoffs and harder to get inside to score and how you need some size. Then all these former NHL players who all make up the bulk of the color guys and the bulk of hockey panels say the hockey is harder in the playoffs and you need some size to win. When all of the NHL coaches say that you need some size and all of the managers and scouts, all say the same thing. How can ALL the guys who make a living in the NHL be wrong and you, Adam a fan and poster on Oilfans be right?


I'm pretty used to being right while people who make a living off the NHL are wrong. I mean, I watch the Edmonton Oilers where the media and the management have generally been on the wrong side of things for the last 20 years. Not saying I'm infallible, but man, being more right than the old hockey guys 'who played the game' is a very low bar to clear. (Also did you see the Flyers are down to two alumni again for the next President of that organization? Crazy.)

If your argument is that Burns is big, Hughes is small thus the Devils can't win, can you explain to me why Aho, being smaller than Hamilton or Dahl, doesn't immediately endanger the Hurricanes for the same reason?

Or for that matter, why the weakest link on the Oilers in the playoffs is also their biggest human?

Maybe there's more to it than size?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823031 is a reply to message #823029 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Adam wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 14:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 14:12

Adam wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 13:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 11:44

Adam wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 10:31

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


Everyone talks about the big, bad Carolina Hurricanes - known throughout the league to be a team built around gritting out wins one shot block and one hit at a time!

Oh, would that the Devils had thought to trade for some meaty third line grit that would have increased their average team size so that they could have dispatched with the lowly Rangers (just 107 points!) faster, and not been pushed aside by the 113-point Carolina Hurricanes.

And just look at this bruising roster from the Hurricanes! https://www.nhl.com/hurricanes/roster I mean, yeah, Aho and a lot of their other main guys are right around 6', but Puljujarvi is 6'4! How do you compete with that?



It's not nothing to do one bit about hits or being mean and nasty. It's about having the physical size at times to get to the net and win battles when the hockey is harder as it is in the playoffs.

Devils lines as per daily faceoff
Palat (194) Hischer (175) Bratt(175)
Meire (220) Hughes (175) Mercer (180)
Haula (194) McLeod (190) Tatat (175)

Canes
Nosen (205) Aho (175) Jarvis (175)
Martinook (196) Kotkaniemi (201) Fast (191)
Drury (174) Staal (220) Necas (189)

The big thing, the Canes defense.
Slavin (207) Burns (230)
Skjei (210) Pesce (206)

Aho at 175 and 26 is going to most likely be stronger than Hughes at 175 and almost 22 because AHo is older, more physically mature and had more years of training. That's called life. When a Devils forward at 175 is driving the net, and a 230lb Burns is standing there, it will be harder for the 175 lbs Hughes to put muscle Burns for a puck when he has 55 lbs on him. That's what I mean when I say size.


I realize this is repackaged Stauffer pap, but it's just not really that true. The Devils aren't losing because they're not big enough. I note that you left out the Devils defence which includes 6'6 Dougie Hamilton, 6'6 Kevin Dahl and 6'5 Ryan Graves. All those guys are bigger than all but Burns from the Hurricanes defence.

If you want to argue that the age and experience of the Hurricanes is shining through, then I think that's something I can entertain, but the two teams aren't much different in terms of size, and on the blueline the Devils are objectively bigger so the argument that the fact they aren't barnstorming the playoffs here because they're just a bunch of waterbugs doesn't hold much, erm, water.

The Hurricanes were the second best team in the entire league this year. The Rangers were the 9th best. They are good hockey teams full of good players and neither of them were ever going to be an easy out.

It's actually pretty similar with the Golden Knights/Oilers. We're talking about the best team in the entire Western conference this year so if people thought it was going to be a cakewalk, they were deluding themselves. And because we lose a couple of games it doesn't automatically mean that all of Nugent-Hopkins, Nurse, Yamamoto, Hyman, Bouchard, Skinner, McLeod and others automatically suck at hockey. The old lazy narratives that you've heard a million times from sportscasters are generally all wrong, so we should work to retire them (and the lazy sportscasters for that matter). They were probably wrong in the past too...but there wasn't as many tools to objectively prove that they were wrong.

Point to me in my response did I mention height? I reread it and I didn't say a single thing about height.

I know your default response to me is to group me into "old school guys" in the media but it has nothing to do with Stauffer and his opinions. This is straight up highschool physics. I don't know what you do for a living or what you took in highschool, maybe you didn't take physics so I will try to describe to you as simply as I can.

When you have 2 objects of differing mass coming together. Force = MASS x acceleration. So when the bigger object with more mass is moving, it's going to exert more force than a smaller object. So when the 2 objects collide the small object is going to bounce off the bigger object. I assume you have seen this happen. When you roll 2 rocks towards eachother, the smaller one will bounce off.

So when it comes to hockey players. When you have a 210 lb defender and a 175 lbs forward coming together, more times than not the bigger guy will come away from the play better. The smaller guy has to do way more to win a puck battle than the bigger guy because the bigger guy has more mass. Considering most goals are scored closish to the net, when you have a lot of smaller guys who have to try and get inside a bunch of bigger, heavier defenders like the Canes have, it will be much harder for the smaller guys to get inside and score if the bigger defenders are playing well.

I know Adam, you think you are always right. I know you have zero respect for any media guys. I get it. But when NHL players talk about the game being harder in the playoffs and harder to get inside to score and how you need some size. Then all these former NHL players who all make up the bulk of the color guys and the bulk of hockey panels say the hockey is harder in the playoffs and you need some size to win. When all of the NHL coaches say that you need some size and all of the managers and scouts, all say the same thing. How can ALL the guys who make a living in the NHL be wrong and you, Adam a fan and poster on Oilfans be right?


I'm pretty used to being right while people who make a living off the NHL are wrong. I mean, I watch the Edmonton Oilers where the media and the management have generally been on the wrong side of things for the last 20 years. Not saying I'm infallible, but man, being more right than the old hockey guys 'who played the game' is a very low bar to clear. (Also did you see the Flyers are down to two alumni again for the next President of that organization? Crazy.)

If your argument is that Burns is big, Hughes is small thus the Devils can't win, can you explain to me why Aho, being smaller than Hamilton or Dahl, doesn't immediately endanger the Hurricanes for the same reason?

Or for that matter, why the weakest link on the Oilers in the playoffs is also their biggest human?

Maybe there's more to it than size?


I listed the Canes top 9 and their weights and the Devils top 9 and their weights.
The Canes have 3 guys over 200, the Devils 1.
The Devils have 5 guys 180 and under, 4 175 lbs, the Canes 3.

When you are playing a sport where often times it's 1 on 1 battles like hockey is, having more mass gives you an advantage. Unless the bigger guy is grossly less skilled than the smaller guy, if they are close in skill, the bigger, heavier guy has an advantage more times than not. Like I said, it's basic highschool physics.

So the Cane have the advantage of having more heavier guys in their line up. It's right in my post, you can't miss it.

If you want to get specific on players. Aho vs Hughes, both of whom are 175ish pounds. Again, it's not hard to figure this out but will try to make this real easy for you. Aho is going to be 26 in July. Hughes will be 22 on May 14th. A 26 yr old is older than a 22 yr old. So because of that, a 26 year olds body is more physically mature than a 22 yr olds body. That's called anatomy. Also, a 26 yr old athlete has been training for longer than a 22 yr old because he's been on the earth longer due to his age. So when you take into account a 26 yr olds body is more physically mature than a 22 yr old and a 26 yr old has been training longer than a 22 yr old, in all likelihood the 26 yr old 175 lb forward is going to be physically stronger than a 22 yr old. There is a slang term for that. It's called man strength. So Aho probably has an easier time getting around than Hughes because he's physically stronger like I pointed out.

The Canes are more experienced, they are older, they are heavier because they have more players that weigh more and they stronger and not surprisingly they are handling the Devils better.

I fully understand that my response has a bit of a condescending tone to it but I am tired of repeating myself over and over again.

To answer your question. The weakest player -Desharnais - who yes is big but he's the weakest player due to his skill level not his size. The weakest forward on the Oilers is Yamamoto who happens to be the smallest. Why do I think he struggles? Because he doesn't have elite skill like a Hughes so in order to score, he has to get close to the net and when he gets close to the net, he gets boxed out by heavier dmen.

I am done repeating myself. If you can't figure this out, its on you.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 May 2023 15:10]

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823072 is a reply to message #823031 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AndersonRules is currently offline AndersonRules
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Defensemen on the Devils, far heavier than their counterparts with Carolina.
230, 230, 220, 218, 205, 185 in their top 6. Forwards may be lighter, but defense much heavier. Does that balance out your argument? Or is it only weight of forwards that matters?

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823082 is a reply to message #823072 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PlusOne is currently offline PlusOne
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AndersonRules wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 20:54

Defensemen on the Devils, far heavier than their counterparts with Carolina.
230, 230, 220, 218, 205, 185 in their top 6. Forwards may be lighter, but defense much heavier. Does that balance out your argument? Or is it only weight of forwards that matters?


Stop ruining the narrative with facts!

Good news though. I am pretty sure the announcers said the Oilers were the biggest team left in the playoffs. Full disclosure, I am not sure if they meant height or weight.
Might as well start engraving the cup with Oiler names now!

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823033 is a reply to message #823009 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


I think every team that depends on a load of youngsters ends up hitting a wall in their first playoffs. Even Schmid joined the fun after an insane 1st round. They'll be better next year, although, maybe goaltending needs an upgrade.

I think Rangers/Canes would have been a far more entertaining series, but oh well. I really dislike that the Canes could get a very easy ride to the conference finals, and I could see them just destroying Florida. Canes probably have the best goalie left in the playoffs too. Puljujarvi Cup win? :)

Once again, getting waaay ahead of myself here, but Oilers/Canes finals again would be kind of ridiculous in so many ways.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 May 2023 15:16]

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823034 is a reply to message #823033 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oilfan94 is currently offline oilfan94
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 17:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


I think every team that depends on a load of youngsters ends up hitting a wall in their first playoffs. Even Schmid joined the fun after an insane 1st round. They'll be better next year, although, maybe goaltending needs an upgrade.

I think Rangers/Canes would have been a far more entertaining series, but oh well. I really dislike that the Canes could get a very easy ride to the conference finals, and I could see them just destroying Florida too. Canes probably have the best goalie left in the playoffs too. Puljujarvi Cup win? :)

Once again, getting waaay ahead of myself here, but Oilers/Canes finals again would be kind of ridiculous in so many ways.


It would be destiny, since the Oilers have always played the same team in consecutive finals appearances. But yeah, I agree that is getting way ahead of ourselves. I am just hoping that they win tonight.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823035 is a reply to message #823033 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 15:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


I think every team that depends on a load of youngsters ends up hitting a wall in their first playoffs. Even Schmid joined the fun after an insane 1st round. They'll be better next year, although, maybe goaltending needs an upgrade.

I think Rangers/Canes would have been a far more entertaining series, but oh well. I really dislike that the Canes could get a very easy ride to the conference finals, and I could see them just destroying Florida. Canes probably have the best goalie left in the playoffs too. Puljujarvi Cup win? :)

Once again, getting waaay ahead of myself here, but Oilers/Canes finals again would be kind of ridiculous in so many ways.

I have watched a little of the Canes - Devils series but not a ton as I have little interest in it. Has JP been doing any better for them? I'm not asking to gloat about the guy. He's not longer an Oilers so my interest level in him isn't nearly as much but since the Canes came up, his name popped in my head. I don't hear any about him anymore. None of his twitter supporters mention him anymore and I see he's not producing points so I just wonder if he's doing the same as he was with the Oilers.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823036 is a reply to message #823035 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 15:25

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 15:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


I think every team that depends on a load of youngsters ends up hitting a wall in their first playoffs. Even Schmid joined the fun after an insane 1st round. They'll be better next year, although, maybe goaltending needs an upgrade.

I think Rangers/Canes would have been a far more entertaining series, but oh well. I really dislike that the Canes could get a very easy ride to the conference finals, and I could see them just destroying Florida. Canes probably have the best goalie left in the playoffs too. Puljujarvi Cup win? :)

Once again, getting waaay ahead of myself here, but Oilers/Canes finals again would be kind of ridiculous in so many ways.

I have watched a little of the Canes - Devils series but not a ton as I have little interest in it. Has JP been doing any better for them? I'm not asking to gloat about the guy. He's not longer an Oilers so my interest level in him isn't nearly as much but since the Canes came up, his name popped in my head. I don't hear any about him anymore. None of his twitter supporters mention him anymore and I see he's not producing points so I just wonder if he's doing the same as he was with the Oilers.


Jesse just doing 22/23 Jesse things. Analytics look good, but been on for 2 GF and 5 GA. He did get an on ice view of that series winner in round 1! Don't think he did much on the play though.

Regardless, he'd still get his name on the cup :) It would be a very Oilers thing to happen.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 May 2023 15:37]

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- Lowe, 2013

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- MacT, 2015

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823037 is a reply to message #823036 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Kr55 wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 15:29

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 15:25

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 15:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


I think every team that depends on a load of youngsters ends up hitting a wall in their first playoffs. Even Schmid joined the fun after an insane 1st round. They'll be better next year, although, maybe goaltending needs an upgrade.

I think Rangers/Canes would have been a far more entertaining series, but oh well. I really dislike that the Canes could get a very easy ride to the conference finals, and I could see them just destroying Florida. Canes probably have the best goalie left in the playoffs too. Puljujarvi Cup win? :)

Once again, getting waaay ahead of myself here, but Oilers/Canes finals again would be kind of ridiculous in so many ways.

I have watched a little of the Canes - Devils series but not a ton as I have little interest in it. Has JP been doing any better for them? I'm not asking to gloat about the guy. He's not longer an Oilers so my interest level in him isn't nearly as much but since the Canes came up, his name popped in my head. I don't hear any about him anymore. None of his twitter supporters mention him anymore and I see he's not producing points so I just wonder if he's doing the same as he was with the Oilers.


Jesse just doing 22/23 Jesse things. Analytics look good, but been on for 2 GF and 5 GA. He did get an on ice view of that series winner in round 1! Don't think he did much on the play though.

Regardless, he'd still get his name on the cup though :) It would be a very Oilers thing to happen.

Thanks for the information. It will be interesting to see what happens with him in the offseason.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823038 is a reply to message #823035 ]
Wed, 10 May 2023 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 15:25

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 15:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


I think every team that depends on a load of youngsters ends up hitting a wall in their first playoffs. Even Schmid joined the fun after an insane 1st round. They'll be better next year, although, maybe goaltending needs an upgrade.

I think Rangers/Canes would have been a far more entertaining series, but oh well. I really dislike that the Canes could get a very easy ride to the conference finals, and I could see them just destroying Florida. Canes probably have the best goalie left in the playoffs too. Puljujarvi Cup win? :)

Once again, getting waaay ahead of myself here, but Oilers/Canes finals again would be kind of ridiculous in so many ways.

I have watched a little of the Canes - Devils series but not a ton as I have little interest in it. Has JP been doing any better for them? I'm not asking to gloat about the guy. He's not longer an Oilers so my interest level in him isn't nearly as much but since the Canes came up, his name popped in my head. I don't hear any about him anymore. None of his twitter supporters mention him anymore and I see he's not producing points so I just wonder if he's doing the same as he was with the Oilers.


Wait a second - so you're making an argument where you're stating with ultra-confidence that the reason that the New Jersey Devils are leading that series is a difference of 6 lbs per player on the top 9 of the two teams (while also comparing the smallest Devils forwards to the biggest 'Canes defencemen and not doing the same for the 'Canes forwards vs. the biggest Devils defencemen) and yet you say you actually haven't WATCHED MUCH OF IT? So what exactly is the evidence? You just looked at the box score and how much Jack Hughes weighs?

I mean...it's an argument I guess.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823162 is a reply to message #823038 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 16:18

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 15:25

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 15:10

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 May 2023 08:46

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 09 May 2023 18:42

Well this NJ/Carolina series blows, NJ in process of being blown out for the 3rd time in the series. Rangers had a winning record vs Carolina this year, kinda wish they made it through to keep it interesting.

I thought all along the Canes/Devils series would be bad and I was right. I thought the Rangers would destroy the Devils just because the Devils lack experience and I don't think you can win in the playoffs when so many of your guys are undersized. The hockey in the playoffs is different. The Rangers just played gawd awful but it still took the Devils 7 to win.


I think every team that depends on a load of youngsters ends up hitting a wall in their first playoffs. Even Schmid joined the fun after an insane 1st round. They'll be better next year, although, maybe goaltending needs an upgrade.

I think Rangers/Canes would have been a far more entertaining series, but oh well. I really dislike that the Canes could get a very easy ride to the conference finals, and I could see them just destroying Florida. Canes probably have the best goalie left in the playoffs too. Puljujarvi Cup win? :)

Once again, getting waaay ahead of myself here, but Oilers/Canes finals again would be kind of ridiculous in so many ways.

I have watched a little of the Canes - Devils series but not a ton as I have little interest in it. Has JP been doing any better for them? I'm not asking to gloat about the guy. He's not longer an Oilers so my interest level in him isn't nearly as much but since the Canes came up, his name popped in my head. I don't hear any about him anymore. None of his twitter supporters mention him anymore and I see he's not producing points so I just wonder if he's doing the same as he was with the Oilers.


Wait a second - so you're making an argument where you're stating with ultra-confidence that the reason that the New Jersey Devils are leading that series is a difference of 6 lbs per player on the top 9 of the two teams (while also comparing the smallest Devils forwards to the biggest 'Canes defencemen and not doing the same for the 'Canes forwards vs. the biggest Devils defencemen) and yet you say you actually haven't WATCHED MUCH OF IT? So what exactly is the evidence? You just looked at the box score and how much Jack Hughes weighs?

I mean...it's an argument I guess.

I worded it poorly. I don't sit down and watch a Devils game as intently as I do an Oilers game. When I watch an Oilers game, that's my focus for the 2.5-3 hours. Am I sitting down watching every single minute of the Canes- Devils game? No I am not.

When I watch the Devils games, I see a team loaded with speedy, skilled, smaller forwards unable to get to the net where goals are scored as often as they were able too in the regular season. They aren't getting goalied, they aren't missing tons of their top 9. They are being kept to the perimeter. Maybe in the parts of the game that I don't watch because I am doing something for short spurts, that isn't the case. But when I watch them play, their small guys can't get anything done.

Believe whatever the hell you want. I see what I see and I really don't give a crap about your opinion.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823168 is a reply to message #823162 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 08:38


I worded it poorly. I don't sit down and watch a Devils game as intently as I do an Oilers game. When I watch an Oilers game, that's my focus for the 2.5-3 hours. Am I sitting down watching every single minute of the Canes- Devils game? No I am not.

When I watch the Devils games, I see a team loaded with speedy, skilled, smaller forwards unable to get to the net where goals are scored as often as they were able too in the regular season. They aren't getting goalied, they aren't missing tons of their top 9. They are being kept to the perimeter. Maybe in the parts of the game that I don't watch because I am doing something for short spurts, that isn't the case. But when I watch them play, their small guys can't get anything done.

Believe whatever the hell you want. I see what I see and I really don't give a crap about your opinion.


I'm glad to hear that my arguments, no matter how persuasive, don't have any negative impact on you. Nor should they! It's just hockey!

However, I just hate letting these tropes sit. It's the same stupid argument all the Oilers pundits say about anyone shorter than 6'2 - no matter how many times we've seen good smaller players thrive in the league too. The fact is, if size just eliminated skill then every team would have three Vinnie Desharnais's each. Skill is just more important and tenacity isn't correlated to size.

The Hurricanes are slightly bigger at forward and slightly smaller on defence. The overall team size difference is negligible. The Hurricanes ARE a really good team, so it's not shocking that they're winning against the Devils and that the Devils can't have their way with them every game. And having proclaimed the Devils dead in Round One based on their size only to have them come back and win, you would think should impact some of those assumptions in Round Two...You'd think that people MIGHT start considering if there's other factors at play...like goaltending for instance. Their rookie goalie went from unbeatable to allowing 5+ goals a game...that seems notable. He's big though, so it's baffling...

I am always curious though - how many big players does a team need in order to be considered big enough by a Bob Stauffer or Jason Gregor or RDOilersfan? If they add one more top-9 guy who's 6'6 and 230 is that enough? Three more 6'2 guys? Is it one too many guys at 175 lbs? Or is a team with Hischier and Hughes just never going to be good enough because the two of them are too small for the pundits?



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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823169 is a reply to message #823168 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
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I get what you're saying, and agree to an extent. There is a benefit of bigger players though. if two players are just as good, the taller one has an advantage of reach. A smaller player can't be AS good as other players. They need to be better, more tenacious, more aggressive.
Arguably it's the Yamamoto vs PJ conversation we had all last year. Which would you rather have on the oil right now, seeing they're still about the same level of productivity?
Kailer has 1 goal and 3 assists 14 PIMS
Jesse played 7 games and is injured now, has 1 assist 0 PIMS and is one of the best advanced stats players.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823171 is a reply to message #823169 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 10:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 09:57

I get what you're saying, and agree to an extent. There is a benefit of bigger players though. if two players are just as good, the taller one has an advantage of reach. A smaller player can't be AS good as other players. They need to be better, more tenacious, more aggressive.
Arguably it's the Yamamoto vs PJ conversation we had all last year. Which would you rather have on the oil right now, seeing they're still about the same level of productivity?
Kailer has 1 goal and 3 assists 14 PIMS
Jesse played 7 games and is injured now, has 1 assist 0 PIMS and is one of the best advanced stats players.

100%

When Yamo is on his game, he's a scrappy player. If Yamo had JP's size combined with his scrappiness, he would have more success. Do I have a way to prove it? No but if you watch Yamo due to his size, he gets pushed off pucks or boxed our easier than JP did.

I assume people in here would agree that Yamo generally plays with a little more tenacity than JP did. So if that is the case, what other reason could there be that Yamo was pushed off more pucks than JP if size isn't a factor?

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823175 is a reply to message #823169 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 09:57

I get what you're saying, and agree to an extent. There is a benefit of bigger players though. if two players are just as good, the taller one has an advantage of reach. A smaller player can't be AS good as other players. They need to be better, more tenacious, more aggressive.
Arguably it's the Yamamoto vs PJ conversation we had all last year. Which would you rather have on the oil right now, seeing they're still about the same level of productivity?
Kailer has 1 goal and 3 assists 14 PIMS
Jesse played 7 games and is injured now, has 1 assist 0 PIMS and is one of the best advanced stats players.


The best player of all-time was 6'0, and maybe 170 lbs at the point where he was scoring 200 points a season.

It's not an either/or option. The Devils have the roster that they have, and it includes some fantastic players who happen to not be giants (so do the Hurricanes for that matter). It's not like they can just decide to magically get another Jack Hughes but bigger.

This is the same with the Oilers with Hall, Nuge, Eberle - Gregor would say the same thing. The Oilers are too small. We need bigger talent! But we can't make Eberle a giant, and as we saw when we dealt him, we couldn't trade him for an equivalent player. Ditto Hall for that matter. Both deals got a bigger player and both deals made the Oilers worse.

Maybe one of the best examples of a team trying to do this is the Briere/Gratton swap. The Sabres got the MUCH bigger player and got much worse for the trade.

However, all that is a sideshow to the actual argument and moving the goalposts. We aren't saying who would be better - Actual Size Connor McDavid versus Giant Connor McDavid.

The argument that was made was that the size of the Devils is why they didn't crush the Rangers in Round 1 (despite the fact that the Rangers were a 100+ point team who was good to begin with and maybe had the best trade deadline of any playoff team) and that the reason they're losing to the Hurricanes is because they're smaller (despite the fact the Hurricanes had the second best regular season of any team).

Well, that doesn't hold up. I mean, the Devils WON the first round. And in the second, the size differences between the teams are negligible.

If you want to suggest that the Hurricanes are more skilled or more experienced...those are arguments I can understand. Devils not big enough to beat them? That's just not holding water.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823176 is a reply to message #823175 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:03

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 09:57

I get what you're saying, and agree to an extent. There is a benefit of bigger players though. if two players are just as good, the taller one has an advantage of reach. A smaller player can't be AS good as other players. They need to be better, more tenacious, more aggressive.
Arguably it's the Yamamoto vs PJ conversation we had all last year. Which would you rather have on the oil right now, seeing they're still about the same level of productivity?
Kailer has 1 goal and 3 assists 14 PIMS
Jesse played 7 games and is injured now, has 1 assist 0 PIMS and is one of the best advanced stats players.


The best player of all-time was 6'0, and maybe 170 lbs at the point where he was scoring 200 points a season.

It's not an either/or option. The Devils have the roster that they have, and it includes some fantastic players who happen to not be giants (so do the Hurricanes for that matter). It's not like they can just decide to magically get another Jack Hughes but bigger.

This is the same with the Oilers with Hall, Nuge, Eberle - Gregor would say the same thing. The Oilers are too small. We need bigger talent! But we can't make Eberle a giant, and as we saw when we dealt him, we couldn't trade him for an equivalent player. Ditto Hall for that matter. Both deals got a bigger player and both deals made the Oilers worse.

Maybe one of the best examples of a team trying to do this is the Briere/Gratton swap. The Sabres got the MUCH bigger player and got much worse for the trade.

However, all that is a sideshow to the actual argument and moving the goalposts. We aren't saying who would be better - Actual Size Connor McDavid versus Giant Connor McDavid.

The argument that was made was that the size of the Devils is why they didn't crush the Rangers in Round 1 (despite the fact that the Rangers were a 100+ point team who was good to begin with and maybe had the best trade deadline of any playoff team) and that the reason they're losing to the Hurricanes is because they're smaller (despite the fact the Hurricanes had the second best regular season of any team).

Well, that doesn't hold up. I mean, the Devils WON the first round. And in the second, the size differences between the teams are negligible.

If you want to suggest that the Hurricanes are more skilled or more experienced...those are arguments I can understand. Devils not big enough to beat them? That's just not holding water.

If you are going to use Gretzky as part of your argument, you can at least get a couple of things right. He was 185 lbs, not 170. Go look it up if you don't believe me. Then look up how big the bulk of the Oilers top 6 was besides Gretzky. Now I was a kid in the early 80's so I don't remember all the guys that played in the Oilers top 6 but I do know these guys made up the big chunk of the Oilers top 6.
Anderson 190
Messier, 210
Kurri 194
Gretzky 185

These guys made up the main 4 of the Oilers top 6 from early in the 80's. Then came:
Krushelnysky 200
Tikkanen 190

Now I get it, the game has changed since then but saying Gretzky put up 200 pts at 170 is 100% untrue. We also didn't do it flanked by a bunch of guys in the 170's.

You are purposefully focusing on turning the debate into it being some people think small players can't do it. That isn't the case. Smaller players can do it but the topic is the belief and the apparent evidence that many people think is there that when you have a lot of smaller players playing together, they have a more difficult time.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823234 is a reply to message #823176 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:30

Adam wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:03

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 09:57

I get what you're saying, and agree to an extent. There is a benefit of bigger players though. if two players are just as good, the taller one has an advantage of reach. A smaller player can't be AS good as other players. They need to be better, more tenacious, more aggressive.
Arguably it's the Yamamoto vs PJ conversation we had all last year. Which would you rather have on the oil right now, seeing they're still about the same level of productivity?
Kailer has 1 goal and 3 assists 14 PIMS
Jesse played 7 games and is injured now, has 1 assist 0 PIMS and is one of the best advanced stats players.


The best player of all-time was 6'0, and maybe 170 lbs at the point where he was scoring 200 points a season.

It's not an either/or option. The Devils have the roster that they have, and it includes some fantastic players who happen to not be giants (so do the Hurricanes for that matter). It's not like they can just decide to magically get another Jack Hughes but bigger.

This is the same with the Oilers with Hall, Nuge, Eberle - Gregor would say the same thing. The Oilers are too small. We need bigger talent! But we can't make Eberle a giant, and as we saw when we dealt him, we couldn't trade him for an equivalent player. Ditto Hall for that matter. Both deals got a bigger player and both deals made the Oilers worse.

Maybe one of the best examples of a team trying to do this is the Briere/Gratton swap. The Sabres got the MUCH bigger player and got much worse for the trade.

However, all that is a sideshow to the actual argument and moving the goalposts. We aren't saying who would be better - Actual Size Connor McDavid versus Giant Connor McDavid.

The argument that was made was that the size of the Devils is why they didn't crush the Rangers in Round 1 (despite the fact that the Rangers were a 100+ point team who was good to begin with and maybe had the best trade deadline of any playoff team) and that the reason they're losing to the Hurricanes is because they're smaller (despite the fact the Hurricanes had the second best regular season of any team).

Well, that doesn't hold up. I mean, the Devils WON the first round. And in the second, the size differences between the teams are negligible.

If you want to suggest that the Hurricanes are more skilled or more experienced...those are arguments I can understand. Devils not big enough to beat them? That's just not holding water.

If you are going to use Gretzky as part of your argument, you can at least get a couple of things right. He was 185 lbs, not 170. Go look it up if you don't believe me. Then look up how big the bulk of the Oilers top 6 was besides Gretzky. Now I was a kid in the early 80's so I don't remember all the guys that played in the Oilers top 6 but I do know these guys made up the big chunk of the Oilers top 6.
Anderson 190
Messier, 210
Kurri 194
Gretzky 185

These guys made up the main 4 of the Oilers top 6 from early in the 80's. Then came:
Krushelnysky 200
Tikkanen 190

Now I get it, the game has changed since then but saying Gretzky put up 200 pts at 170 is 100% untrue. We also didn't do it flanked by a bunch of guys in the 170's.

You are purposefully focusing on turning the debate into it being some people think small players can't do it. That isn't the case. Smaller players can do it but the topic is the belief and the apparent evidence that many people think is there that when you have a lot of smaller players playing together, they have a more difficult time.


Yeah - sometimes the stats in those days were a little exaggerated. Gretzky might have been holding on to weights when he was on the scale. He was very slight. Fleury used to spike his hair so that he was 2-3 inches taller. Nowadays, I don't think the NHL would let you get away with the same.

The debate started as - is size the reason the Devils are losing to the Rangers Hurricanes. It's not. They're almost the same size as a team - we can say that with absolute confidence having looked at the numbers. They're marginally smaller up front, marginally bigger on defence. The argument that they lose because they're small doesn't hold water.

Also - it wasn't the fact that Hall, Nuge & Eberle weren't being large men that held back the Oilers. It was that the team build around them was terrible. Some of them were quite large...didn't really matter because they sucked at hockey. Three guys of any size weren't going to be able to carry a team. It's taken having two of the top 5 players in the game to out-perform bad management in Edmonton.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823239 is a reply to message #823234 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:58

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:30

Adam wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 12:03

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 09:57

I get what you're saying, and agree to an extent. There is a benefit of bigger players though. if two players are just as good, the taller one has an advantage of reach. A smaller player can't be AS good as other players. They need to be better, more tenacious, more aggressive.
Arguably it's the Yamamoto vs PJ conversation we had all last year. Which would you rather have on the oil right now, seeing they're still about the same level of productivity?
Kailer has 1 goal and 3 assists 14 PIMS
Jesse played 7 games and is injured now, has 1 assist 0 PIMS and is one of the best advanced stats players.


The best player of all-time was 6'0, and maybe 170 lbs at the point where he was scoring 200 points a season.

It's not an either/or option. The Devils have the roster that they have, and it includes some fantastic players who happen to not be giants (so do the Hurricanes for that matter). It's not like they can just decide to magically get another Jack Hughes but bigger.

This is the same with the Oilers with Hall, Nuge, Eberle - Gregor would say the same thing. The Oilers are too small. We need bigger talent! But we can't make Eberle a giant, and as we saw when we dealt him, we couldn't trade him for an equivalent player. Ditto Hall for that matter. Both deals got a bigger player and both deals made the Oilers worse.

Maybe one of the best examples of a team trying to do this is the Briere/Gratton swap. The Sabres got the MUCH bigger player and got much worse for the trade.

However, all that is a sideshow to the actual argument and moving the goalposts. We aren't saying who would be better - Actual Size Connor McDavid versus Giant Connor McDavid.

The argument that was made was that the size of the Devils is why they didn't crush the Rangers in Round 1 (despite the fact that the Rangers were a 100+ point team who was good to begin with and maybe had the best trade deadline of any playoff team) and that the reason they're losing to the Hurricanes is because they're smaller (despite the fact the Hurricanes had the second best regular season of any team).

Well, that doesn't hold up. I mean, the Devils WON the first round. And in the second, the size differences between the teams are negligible.

If you want to suggest that the Hurricanes are more skilled or more experienced...those are arguments I can understand. Devils not big enough to beat them? That's just not holding water.

If you are going to use Gretzky as part of your argument, you can at least get a couple of things right. He was 185 lbs, not 170. Go look it up if you don't believe me. Then look up how big the bulk of the Oilers top 6 was besides Gretzky. Now I was a kid in the early 80's so I don't remember all the guys that played in the Oilers top 6 but I do know these guys made up the big chunk of the Oilers top 6.
Anderson 190
Messier, 210
Kurri 194
Gretzky 185

These guys made up the main 4 of the Oilers top 6 from early in the 80's. Then came:
Krushelnysky 200
Tikkanen 190

Now I get it, the game has changed since then but saying Gretzky put up 200 pts at 170 is 100% untrue. We also didn't do it flanked by a bunch of guys in the 170's.

You are purposefully focusing on turning the debate into it being some people think small players can't do it. That isn't the case. Smaller players can do it but the topic is the belief and the apparent evidence that many people think is there that when you have a lot of smaller players playing together, they have a more difficult time.


Yeah - sometimes the stats in those days were a little exaggerated. Gretzky might have been holding on to weights when he was on the scale. He was very slight. Fleury used to spike his hair so that he was 2-3 inches taller. Nowadays, I don't think the NHL would let you get away with the same.



What was I thinking. Of course everyone else's information including the keeper of the stats, the league, is wrong and Adam's is right. Silly me. I stand corrected again.

It says he's from Brantford Ontario is that correct or a lie too? His dad was named Walter. Let me guess, it's actually Steve? I can't wait for you to tell me what other official records are wrong and whatever you got in your garage is right.

[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:19]

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823240 is a reply to message #823239 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 19:17


What was I thinking. Of course everyone else's information including the keeper of the stats, the league, is wrong and Adam's is right. Silly me. I stand corrected again.


Sorry dude - but if Gretzky was 185 in his Oilers days, I’m 300.

Seriously - look at his hockey cards from the early to mid 80s. He was 170 AT MOST!

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823241 is a reply to message #823240 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Mike wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:21

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 19:17


What was I thinking. Of course everyone else's information including the keeper of the stats, the league, is wrong and Adam's is right. Silly me. I stand corrected again.


Sorry dude - but if Gretzky was 185 in his Oilers days, I’m 300.

Seriously - look at his hockey cards from the early to mid 80s. He was 170 AT MOST!

Better yet, look at his advertisements. Not to judge his weight but to revel in the pure majesty.



Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823244 is a reply to message #823241 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:31

Mike wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:21

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 19:17


What was I thinking. Of course everyone else's information including the keeper of the stats, the league, is wrong and Adam's is right. Silly me. I stand corrected again.


Sorry dude - but if Gretzky was 185 in his Oilers days, I’m 300.

Seriously - look at his hockey cards from the early to mid 80s. He was 170 AT MOST!

Better yet, look at his advertisements. Not to judge his weight but to revel in the pure majesty.




If Johnny Hockey can get >100 pts, I think it's proof enough that elite brains >>>> size. Little guys that don't know how to keep their head up though, short careers no matter how hard they try.

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- Lowe, 2013

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- MacT, 2015

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823246 is a reply to message #823241 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 15:31

Mike wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:21

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 19:17


What was I thinking. Of course everyone else's information including the keeper of the stats, the league, is wrong and Adam's is right. Silly me. I stand corrected again.


Sorry dude - but if Gretzky was 185 in his Oilers days, I’m 300.

Seriously - look at his hockey cards from the early to mid 80s. He was 170 AT MOST!

Better yet, look at his advertisements. Not to judge his weight but to revel in the pure majesty.




I loved ProStars as a kid.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823251 is a reply to message #823246 ]
Thu, 11 May 2023 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Goose wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 17:18



I loved ProStars as a kid.


I'm not sure why they ever left!

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823306 is a reply to message #823241 ]
Fri, 12 May 2023 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:31

Mike wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:21

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 19:17


What was I thinking. Of course everyone else's information including the keeper of the stats, the league, is wrong and Adam's is right. Silly me. I stand corrected again.


Sorry dude - but if Gretzky was 185 in his Oilers days, I’m 300.

Seriously - look at his hockey cards from the early to mid 80s. He was 170 AT MOST!

Better yet, look at his advertisements. Not to judge his weight but to revel in the pure majesty.




You guys are severely underestimating the length and girth of mini Wayne, it makes Klim look like a penne noodle. That’s where the other 15 pounds come from.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823300 is a reply to message #823240 ]
Fri, 12 May 2023 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Mike wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 16:21

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 11 May 2023 19:17


What was I thinking. Of course everyone else's information including the keeper of the stats, the league, is wrong and Adam's is right. Silly me. I stand corrected again.


Sorry dude - but if Gretzky was 185 in his Oilers days, I’m 300.

Seriously - look at his hockey cards from the early to mid 80s. He was 170 AT MOST!

I have a framed picture of Gretzky on my office wall and it says 185. I type in his name on google and it says he's 185. I look him up on the NHL site and it says he was 185.

I wasn't there for camp to look at the scale day 1 but everything that I can look up says he's was 185. Could everyone be lying and Adam be right, I supposed anything is possible. I try to use real time data as much as I can and everything I can find says 185.

If you can find something else that says everything else is wrong and 170 is right, please share it.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823303 is a reply to message #823300 ]
Fri, 12 May 2023 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Perkele is currently offline Perkele
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https://legendsofsport.net/legends/wayne-gretzky/

From the article I linked:

“I stayed healthy because I could hardly play a crash-and-bang style with my skinny little body,” said Gretzky, who was listed at 6 feet and 170 pounds when he first turned pro. “The guys who play a physical game grind themselves down because the body can only repair itself so often.”

#teamBath(i)robe

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823304 is a reply to message #823303 ]
Fri, 12 May 2023 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
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Perkele wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 10:47

https://legendsofsport.net/legends/wayne-gretzky/

From the article I linked:

“I stayed healthy because I could hardly play a crash-and-bang style with my skinny little body,” said Gretzky, who was listed at 6 feet and 170 pounds when he first turned pro. “The guys who play a physical game grind themselves down because the body can only repair itself so often.”

You added it in your quote. He was 170 when he first turned pro. He turned pro at 17 and played 2 yrs in the WHA before going to the NHL. So you guys are telling me, he never gained any weight since he was 17? Seriously.

So that means that Nuge who I think was under 170 when he was drafted, hasn't gained a pound since his draft year. Got it.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823305 is a reply to message #823304 ]
Fri, 12 May 2023 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Maybe Gretz used a weight loss gum?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823309 is a reply to message #823304 ]
Fri, 12 May 2023 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 14:06

Perkele wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 10:47

https://legendsofsport.net/legends/wayne-gretzky/

From the article I linked:

“I stayed healthy because I could hardly play a crash-and-bang style with my skinny little body,” said Gretzky, who was listed at 6 feet and 170 pounds when he first turned pro. “The guys who play a physical game grind themselves down because the body can only repair itself so often.”

You added it in your quote. He was 170 when he first turned pro. He turned pro at 17 and played 2 yrs in the WHA before going to the NHL. So you guys are telling me, he never gained any weight since he was 17? Seriously.

So that means that Nuge who I think was under 170 when he was drafted, hasn't gained a pound since his draft year. Got it.


I said there is no way Gretzky was 185 during his Oilers days (ie - his record setting seasons). He may be 185 or more now, but again - I saw him back then, and 0 chance he was anywhere close to that when he was smashing all those records.

Just because 185 sounds like such an outrageous number for him when he was an Oiler, I figured I'd check my hockey cards - and waddaya know...

Rookie year: 165lbs
2nd year: 165lbs
3rd year: 165lbs
4th year: 165lbs (92 goals, 212 pts)
5th year: 165lbs
6th year: 170lbs
8th year: 170lbs (215pts)
9th year: 170lbs
10th year: 170lbs

And then off to the Kings.

I know it's just hockey cards numbers, but I think we can all agree they wouldn't be underreporting his height and weight.

[Updated on: Fri, 12 May 2023 12:03]

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823310 is a reply to message #823309 ]
Fri, 12 May 2023 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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Mike wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 12:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 14:06

Perkele wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 10:47

https://legendsofsport.net/legends/wayne-gretzky/

From the article I linked:

“I stayed healthy because I could hardly play a crash-and-bang style with my skinny little body,” said Gretzky, who was listed at 6 feet and 170 pounds when he first turned pro. “The guys who play a physical game grind themselves down because the body can only repair itself so often.”

You added it in your quote. He was 170 when he first turned pro. He turned pro at 17 and played 2 yrs in the WHA before going to the NHL. So you guys are telling me, he never gained any weight since he was 17? Seriously.

So that means that Nuge who I think was under 170 when he was drafted, hasn't gained a pound since his draft year. Got it.


I said there is no way Gretzky was 185 during his Oilers days (ie - his record setting seasons). He may be 185 or more now, but again - I saw him back then, and 0 chance he was anywhere close to that when he was smashing all those records.

Just because 185 sounds like such an outrageous number for him when he was an Oiler, I figured I'd check my hockey cards - and waddaya know...

Rookie year: 165lbs
2nd year: 165lbs
3rd year: 165lbs
4th year: 165lbs (92 goals, 212 pts)
5th year: 165lbs
6th year: 170lbs
8th year: 170lbs (215pts)
9th year: 170lbs
10th year: 170lbs

And then off to the Kings.

I know it's just hockey cards numbers, but I think we can all agree they wouldn't be underreporting his height and weight.





Cool to see that Wayne, like me, also put on weight as he got older.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823311 is a reply to message #823310 ]
Fri, 12 May 2023 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
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Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 12:10

Mike wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 12:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 14:06

Perkele wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 10:47

https://legendsofsport.net/legends/wayne-gretzky/

From the article I linked:

“I stayed healthy because I could hardly play a crash-and-bang style with my skinny little body,” said Gretzky, who was listed at 6 feet and 170 pounds when he first turned pro. “The guys who play a physical game grind themselves down because the body can only repair itself so often.”

You added it in your quote. He was 170 when he first turned pro. He turned pro at 17 and played 2 yrs in the WHA before going to the NHL. So you guys are telling me, he never gained any weight since he was 17? Seriously.

So that means that Nuge who I think was under 170 when he was drafted, hasn't gained a pound since his draft year. Got it.


I said there is no way Gretzky was 185 during his Oilers days (ie - his record setting seasons). He may be 185 or more now, but again - I saw him back then, and 0 chance he was anywhere close to that when he was smashing all those records.

Just because 185 sounds like such an outrageous number for him when he was an Oiler, I figured I'd check my hockey cards - and waddaya know...

Rookie year: 165lbs
2nd year: 165lbs
3rd year: 165lbs
4th year: 165lbs (92 goals, 212 pts)
5th year: 165lbs
6th year: 170lbs
8th year: 170lbs (215pts)
9th year: 170lbs
10th year: 170lbs

And then off to the Kings.

I know it's just hockey cards numbers, but I think we can all agree they wouldn't be underreporting his height and weight.





Cool to see that Wayne, like me, also put on weight as he got older.

Hey me too! I just put it on faster.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823314 is a reply to message #823311 ]
Fri, 12 May 2023 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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CrusaderPi wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 13:06

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 12:10

Mike wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 12:01

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 14:06

Perkele wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 10:47

https://legendsofsport.net/legends/wayne-gretzky/

From the article I linked:

“I stayed healthy because I could hardly play a crash-and-bang style with my skinny little body,” said Gretzky, who was listed at 6 feet and 170 pounds when he first turned pro. “The guys who play a physical game grind themselves down because the body can only repair itself so often.”

You added it in your quote. He was 170 when he first turned pro. He turned pro at 17 and played 2 yrs in the WHA before going to the NHL. So you guys are telling me, he never gained any weight since he was 17? Seriously.

So that means that Nuge who I think was under 170 when he was drafted, hasn't gained a pound since his draft year. Got it.


I said there is no way Gretzky was 185 during his Oilers days (ie - his record setting seasons). He may be 185 or more now, but again - I saw him back then, and 0 chance he was anywhere close to that when he was smashing all those records.

Just because 185 sounds like such an outrageous number for him when he was an Oiler, I figured I'd check my hockey cards - and waddaya know...

Rookie year: 165lbs
2nd year: 165lbs
3rd year: 165lbs
4th year: 165lbs (92 goals, 212 pts)
5th year: 165lbs
6th year: 170lbs
8th year: 170lbs (215pts)
9th year: 170lbs
10th year: 170lbs

And then off to the Kings.

I know it's just hockey cards numbers, but I think we can all agree they wouldn't be underreporting his height and weight.





Cool to see that Wayne, like me, also put on weight as he got older.

Hey me too! I just put it on faster.


Ditto, and I didn’t have the plateaus he had rather mines just been a steady incline lol. I say that as my sized 38 jorts are aching to get launched tonight.


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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823307 is a reply to message #823303 ]
Fri, 12 May 2023 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Adam is currently offline Adam
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Perkele wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 10:47

https://legendsofsport.net/legends/wayne-gretzky/

From the article I linked:

“I stayed healthy because I could hardly play a crash-and-bang style with my skinny little body,” said Gretzky, who was listed at 6 feet and 170 pounds when he first turned pro. “The guys who play a physical game grind themselves down because the body can only repair itself so often.”


And honestly, he probably wasn't 170 when he started either. There wasn't a lot of need for them to be transparent back then about any of these things. In the 1980s, Yamamoto would have listed himself as 180. All it mattered for was hockey cards, so no one cared if you cheated at the measurements a little.

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 Re: 2022-2023 NHL Playoffs! [message #823308 is a reply to message #823307 ]
Fri, 12 May 2023 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
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Adam wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 11:36

Perkele wrote on Fri, 12 May 2023 10:47

https://legendsofsport.net/legends/wayne-gretzky/

From the article I linked:

“I stayed healthy because I could hardly play a crash-and-bang style with my skinny little body,” said Gretzky, who was listed at 6 feet and 185 pounds when he first turned pro. “The guys who play a physical game grind themselves down because the body can only repair itself so often.”


And honestly, he probably wasn't 170 when he started either. There wasn't a lot of need for them to be transparent back then about any of these things. In the 1980s, Yamamoto would have listed himself as 180. All it mattered for was hockey cards, so no one cared if you cheated at the measurements a little.



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[Updated on: Fri, 12 May 2023 11:49]

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