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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818013 is a reply to message #818012 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 13:27

RDOilerfan
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 13:25

Ottawa (probably) isn't looking for Bedard. They have their young pieces and are expecting them to grow into a more competitive team. They must be looking at Chychrun as a long term piece, which isn't a bad thinking. Adding him to Chabot, Zaitsev, and Zub isn't a bad group.

I feel like Ottawa is similar to what the Oilers were a few years ago. They need more defense and they need a goalie. I don't think they need more forward talent.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818014 is a reply to message #818013 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 13:37

Dragon_Matt
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If you were Ottawa and won the Bedard draft, would you still draft him though and trade something away? Would you trade the pick or Bedard for what you think Ottawa needs? I think you have to draft him. heads would roll if they didn't.
I've always been of the mindset, always either trade your draft pick, or pick the best player available, regardless of position.
Very rarely will you draft for position, and also have the player jump right into the NHL.

It's an oddity that the draft picks themselves often seem to have more value than the player the draft pick is used on. Maybe just my perception.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818015 is a reply to message #818013 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 13:43

CrusaderPi
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 13:27

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 13:25

Ottawa (probably) isn't looking for Bedard. They have their young pieces and are expecting them to grow into a more competitive team. They must be looking at Chychrun as a long term piece, which isn't a bad thinking. Adding him to Chabot, Zaitsev, and Zub isn't a bad group.

I feel like Ottawa is similar to what the Oilers were a few years ago. They need more defense and they need a goalie. I don't think they need more forward talent.

A few years ago?

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818017 is a reply to message #818006 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 15:16

Adam
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Well, here's the latest on the Oilers & Karlsson:

Quote:

Just Here 4 🏒Just Here 4 🏒 @JustHereforNHL
Stauffer saying the Oilers offer for Karlsson would be a 2023 1st, Bouchard, Bourgault (as the 3 1sts) and two contracts (likely Barrie +)

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818019 is a reply to message #818017 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 15:44

CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:16

Well, here's the latest on the Oilers & Karlsson:

Quote:

Just Here 4 🏒Just Here 4 🏒 @JustHereforNHL
Stauffer saying the Oilers offer for Karlsson would be a 2023 1st, Bouchard, Bourgault (as the 3 1sts) and two contracts (likely Barrie +)

Well...

I'm not sure I'd mess with the powerplay, but heck let's roll the dice.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818020 is a reply to message #818019 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 15:52

Adam
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CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:16

Well, here's the latest on the Oilers & Karlsson:

Quote:

Just Here 4 🏒Just Here 4 🏒 @JustHereforNHL
Stauffer saying the Oilers offer for Karlsson would be a 2023 1st, Bouchard, Bourgault (as the 3 1sts) and two contracts (likely Barrie +)

Well...

I'm not sure I'd mess with the powerplay, but heck let's roll the dice.

I would not trade Bouchard for Karlsson.

I mentioned it before. If I'm San Jose, I completely would be asking for that and making noise like I can't possibly do the deal without him in it, but Bouchard is too good at a young age to trade as part of a massive package for a 32 year old on a hot streak.

He had 43 points last year playing a depth role and with PP2 time mostly. At his peak, he's likely to be a 60-point guy for several years. He's a lot cheaper than Karlsson currently, and a lot younger and less injury prone.

Give them Reid Schaeffer and tell them to stuff it if they insist on getting Bouchard. We still need multiple right shot defencemen and they can have Barrie.

As for those who'll tell you that Bouchard is made redundant by Karlsson, please recall that we have need for three right shot defencemen on any given night. If you look at the reigning Stanley Cup champion, they have multiple defencemen who could potentially anchor a powerplay were they on a different team, but they aren't in a hurry to flush those players and they've kept on drafting them, because you need more than one.

If your one is injury prone and in his 30s, then you need a back-up plan even more. It's not like we have to go far to find a team who lost their Swedish-born top defenceman to a nagging injury that basically ended his career early...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818023 is a reply to message #818020 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 15:59

Kr55
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Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:52

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:44

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:16

Well, here's the latest on the Oilers & Karlsson:

Quote:

Just Here 4 🏒Just Here 4 🏒 @JustHereforNHL
Stauffer saying the Oilers offer for Karlsson would be a 2023 1st, Bouchard, Bourgault (as the 3 1sts) and two contracts (likely Barrie +)

Well...

I'm not sure I'd mess with the powerplay, but heck let's roll the dice.

I would not trade Bouchard for Karlsson.

I mentioned it before. If I'm San Jose, I completely would be asking for that and making noise like I can't possibly do the deal without him in it, but Bouchard is too good at a young age to trade as part of a massive package for a 32 year old on a hot streak.

He had 43 points last year playing a depth role and with PP2 time mostly. At his peak, he's likely to be a 60-point guy for several years. He's a lot cheaper than Karlsson currently, and a lot younger and less injury prone.

Give them Reid Schaeffer and tell them to stuff it if they insist on getting Bouchard. We still need multiple right shot defencemen and they can have Barrie.

As for those who'll tell you that Bouchard is made redundant by Karlsson, please recall that we have need for three right shot defencemen on any given night. If you look at the reigning Stanley Cup champion, they have multiple defencemen who could potentially anchor a powerplay were they on a different team, but they aren't in a hurry to flush those players and they've kept on drafting them, because you need more than one.

If your one is injury prone and in his 30s, then you need a back-up plan even more. It's not like we have to go far to find a team who lost their Swedish-born top defenceman to a nagging injury that basically ended his career early...

Don't get why we have to add Bouch. Add another 1st round pick. Bouch's value is low now anyways. Bit of excitement turning towards fear again of what this org is gonna do.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818025 is a reply to message #818023 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 16:07

Adam
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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:59

Don't get why we have to add Bouch. Add another 1st round pick. Bouch's value is low now anyways. Bit of excitement turning towards fear again of what this org is gonna do.

I'm pretty worried to be honest that this is exactly the kind of deal the Oilers would make. Bouchard trending to score less this year than last, so obviously he's washed up. Meanwhile Karlsson is scoring at an incredible rate, so he's undoubtedly a 100-point defenceman for the next several years. This might be one of those times where having a functional analytics department could help...

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818000 is a reply to message #817985 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 12:09

Kr55
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Goose wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 10:37

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 09:05

CrusaderPi wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:49

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 08:39

FWIW, focus has turned to figuring out a Karlsson addition. Buckle up.

If Karlsson is the guy that makes all the parts of the Oilers fit together into a team that can win the cup, I'm wildly in favor of this trade. He's under contract (albeit expensive) and still young enough for the whole of the 3-year window. But you better be damn sure Karlsson is that guy because this trade might be the last big move the Oilers can make before Draisaitl comes up.

I've thought he was done for 3 years because it looked like he's been skating in sand since he was traded to San Jose. Maybe 5 seasons of playing ~55 games has given him enough rest and all that is fixed and he's back to being the guy he was in Ottawa. It would be hard to convince me this season isn't the aberration.

Yep definitely. No flexibility after that. I don't think the Karlsson talk is anything to take seriously anyways. Its a near insurmountable deal to make work.

Islanders get Horvat. Rangers get Tarasenko. LA will get Chychrun. Oilers will get Gavrikov and tell the fans that they tried.

Ya, this definitely feels like a classic, "hey we tried to get Karlsson, what else did you want us to do?", move from the Oilers. Tons of smoke out there about the move, so somebody is 'leaking' to somebody. The math on the contract is such a big obstacle. Even if SJ agreed to eat some salary (and I'd be pretty surprised if they agreed to eat 50% of that deal for the next 3 years), It's still a lot the Oilers would need to move out. And I have to imagine that the ask from SJ for 50% retained would be very high.

Are we at the point now where it's not the fans that management needs to actually impress with some teases and excuses, but instead it's McDavid and Drai. Might change the calculus a lot. You fail to give this team a big boost for a playoff run and actually show you're all in with these players, and we're gonna be back to waiting for another lottery win in 1-2 decades perfectly timed for the next generational player.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818018 is a reply to message #818000 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 15:41

RDOilerfan
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https://oilersnation.com/news/two-erik-karlsson-trade-propos als-for-edmonton-oilers

Gregor wrote an article with a few proposals.

Trade A: Oilers trade Barrie, Yamamoto/Puljujarvi, and two firsts for Karlsson. Sharks retain 40% of Karlsson’s salary.

Trade B: Oilers trade Barrie, Yamamoto/Puljujarvi, Evan Bouchard, and a 1st rounder for Karlsson and forward Steven Lorentz.

If the team wants to go for it when you are in the window of McD and Leon being signed and you want to signal to those 2, you are serious about winning, I would do trade B.

Karlsson is an elite dman. He's going to score close to 100 pts and be in the conversation for the Norris with the Sharks who are a weak team. With the Oilers he will do that. He's an elite skater, puck mover, offensive dman and PP QB. After this season, if Barrie can put up 50 pts with the Oilers, Karlsson should be able to score way more than that because he's better than Barrie in all those things. With him being 33 next season and 4 more years on his deal, age plays a factor but he's elite, specially with his skating. SO even if he loses a step, like I said before, he will still be an above average skater at the end of his career.

The big loss will be Bouchard but I look at what Bouchard does well and Karlsson does all of those things better at this point. I see Bouchard over his career as a Barrie type of player. A very good offensive dman who defensively can be average when he is on. I don't see Bouchard as a high end defender ever. I don't think it's in his mindset, I don't think he has the intensity in his game to be a high end defender and I don't think he has the physicality in his game to be a high end defender. That being said, I don't think Bouchard will put up the offensive numbers like Karlsson. Can Bouchard put up 50+ over his career? Probably. But he's not putting up 70 +. No way. He's not putting up 20+ goals. Not many dmen do that and to put up those type of goals and points, you have to be able to skate really well in my opinion. Bouchard skates OK but not elite like Karlsson.

So if you bring in Karlsson, he takes the job that Bouchard would do. Over the next 4 seasons, I don't see Bouchard scoring anywhere near Karlsson if Karlsson was an Oiler nor do I see Karlsson in norris talk like he will be this year and for the next couple of seasons.

So if you can get Karlsson for a package like B and have him at 7 mill cap hit, I would do that deal.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818022 is a reply to message #818018 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 15:55

Adam
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Jason Gregor is an idiot if he thinks that throwing a 10-point fourth line forward in to a deal should make the Oilers swap in a bonafide NHL right shot defenceman instead of an extra draft pick.

That's the height of idiocy there. If those are the two deals and you have to choose one (I think they're both overpays, because Karlsson's play is unsustainable), then you take the first every single day because the second is really, really dumb.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818024 is a reply to message #818022 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 16:05

RDOilerfan
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Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:55

Jason Gregor is an idiot if he thinks that throwing a 10-point fourth line forward in to a deal should make the Oilers swap in a bonafide NHL right shot defenceman instead of an extra draft pick.

That's the height of idiocy there. If those are the two deals and you have to choose one (I think they're both overpays, because Karlsson's play is unsustainable), then you take the first every single day because the second is really, really dumb.

I agree that Karlsson isn't going to produce 100 pts every year. But if he was an Oiler with the opportunity to feed the following players both 5 on 5 and on the PP"
- McDavid, Leon, Nuge, Kane, Hyman.

Assuming he's healthy, what's the likelihood he could score 70+ pts which would be at his career average considering he scores usually over .8 pts per game? I would say pretty high especially since he's an elite skater.

So if the goal is to win a cup in the next few seasons while McD and Leon are signed, I don't see a way Bouchard even though I like him, would match Karlsson's scoring or be in the norris conversation like Karlsson most likely would.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818026 is a reply to message #818024 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 16:16

Adam
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 16:05

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:55

Jason Gregor is an idiot if he thinks that throwing a 10-point fourth line forward in to a deal should make the Oilers swap in a bonafide NHL right shot defenceman instead of an extra draft pick.

That's the height of idiocy there. If those are the two deals and you have to choose one (I think they're both overpays, because Karlsson's play is unsustainable), then you take the first every single day because the second is really, really dumb.

I agree that Karlsson isn't going to produce 100 pts every year. But if he was an Oiler with the opportunity to feed the following players both 5 on 5 and on the PP"
- McDavid, Leon, Nuge, Kane, Hyman.

Assuming he's healthy, what's the likelihood he could score 70+ pts which would be at his career average considering he scores usually over .8 pts per game? I would say pretty high especially since he's an elite skater.

So if the goal is to win a cup in the next few seasons while McD and Leon are signed, I don't see a way Bouchard even though I like him, would match Karlsson's scoring or be in the norris conversation like Karlsson most likely would.

It isn't an either/or conversation.

The Avs may have Cale Makar, but that doesn't stop them from having several more really good puck-movers in their lineup. Byram and Girard aren't getting the plum time on the PP, but they're super valuable, and when Makar is injured (as he is currently), they have guys who can step up.

I read that article by Gregor, and it's (as often the case) somewhat intellectually dishonest, because it talks about point per game and career averages, but ignores the fact that in 3 games, Karlsson will have played more in a season than he has in any year since he came to San Jose.

When you have an older player with that kind of injury history, you HAVE to take that in to consideration. And even more so if they have a cap-killer of a contract like Karlsson does.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818029 is a reply to message #818026 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 16:28

Oscargasm
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Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 16:16

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 16:05

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:55

Jason Gregor is an idiot if he thinks that throwing a 10-point fourth line forward in to a deal should make the Oilers swap in a bonafide NHL right shot defenceman instead of an extra draft pick.

That's the height of idiocy there. If those are the two deals and you have to choose one (I think they're both overpays, because Karlsson's play is unsustainable), then you take the first every single day because the second is really, really dumb.

I agree that Karlsson isn't going to produce 100 pts every year. But if he was an Oiler with the opportunity to feed the following players both 5 on 5 and on the PP"
- McDavid, Leon, Nuge, Kane, Hyman.

Assuming he's healthy, what's the likelihood he could score 70+ pts which would be at his career average considering he scores usually over .8 pts per game? I would say pretty high especially since he's an elite skater.

So if the goal is to win a cup in the next few seasons while McD and Leon are signed, I don't see a way Bouchard even though I like him, would match Karlsson's scoring or be in the norris conversation like Karlsson most likely would.

It isn't an either/or conversation.

The Avs may have Cale Makar, but that doesn't stop them from having several more really good puck-movers in their lineup. Byram and Girard aren't getting the plum time on the PP, but they're super valuable, and when Makar is injured (as he is currently), they have guys who can step up.

I read that article by Gregor, and it's (as often the case) somewhat intellectually dishonest, because it talks about point per game and career averages, but ignores the fact that in 3 games, Karlsson will have played more in a season than he has in any year since he came to San Jose.

When you have an older player with that kind of injury history, you HAVE to take that in to consideration. And even more so if they have a cap-killer of a contract like Karlsson does.

That’s Gregor. It’s the same thing as his argument with Nielson about MJ v Lebron. He’s just smart enough to be allowed to air his idiocy.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818034 is a reply to message #818026 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 20:35

Adam
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Quote:

Dennis King @DKingBH

Oilers Now with Bob Stauffer and "you would have to think that if Karlsson is acquired, that meants Bouchard moves on because it blocks what Bouchard can do." I guess this is why TB couldn't have Hedman and Sergachev. Or Avs couldn't have Makar and Byram

This is just it. Good teams have more than one puck moving defencemen. They don’t see that as a box that’s checked after the first one.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818035 is a reply to message #818034 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 20:58

CrusaderPi
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Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 20:35

Quote:

Dennis King @DKingBH

Oilers Now with Bob Stauffer and "you would have to think that if Karlsson is acquired, that meants Bouchard moves on because it blocks what Bouchard can do." I guess this is why TB couldn't have Hedman and Sergachev. Or Avs couldn't have Makar and Byram

This is just it. Good teams have more than one puck moving defencemen. They don’t see that as a box that’s checked after the first one.

Adam, the box is checked. Period.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818028 is a reply to message #818024 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 16:26

Kr55
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RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 16:05

Adam wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 15:55

Jason Gregor is an idiot if he thinks that throwing a 10-point fourth line forward in to a deal should make the Oilers swap in a bonafide NHL right shot defenceman instead of an extra draft pick.

That's the height of idiocy there. If those are the two deals and you have to choose one (I think they're both overpays, because Karlsson's play is unsustainable), then you take the first every single day because the second is really, really dumb.

I agree that Karlsson isn't going to produce 100 pts every year. But if he was an Oiler with the opportunity to feed the following players both 5 on 5 and on the PP"
- McDavid, Leon, Nuge, Kane, Hyman.

Assuming he's healthy, what's the likelihood he could score 70+ pts which would be at his career average considering he scores usually over .8 pts per game? I would say pretty high especially since he's an elite skater.

So if the goal is to win a cup in the next few seasons while McD and Leon are signed, I don't see a way Bouchard even though I like him, would match Karlsson's scoring or be in the norris conversation like Karlsson most likely would.

I'm less concerned about the individual stats than I am in having D that are going to help keep the puck moving the right way 5v5. Only 1 D is going to rake in the PP points, and if Karlsson is here, it will be him without a doubt. But, this team has had a #1 PP with multiple D back there. Klef, Barrie, and probably would with Bouch or Karlsson. It's a PP mainly driven by the forwards, the D just need to be able to pass.

Karlsson might add something extra to the PP, but there is a max a PP can accomplish regardless, especially when the refs start feeling like giving us a PP is a near automatic goal. The refs make sure our chances are limited for the good of the game if we're too hot scoring on it. So going 2/2 in a game when the refs are scared to call a penalty in our favor is the same as going 2/6 when we're rustier and the refs aren't scared.

Aside from all that, 5v5 play has been a weakness this year. McDavid and Drai's 5v5 stats have suffered with some pretty poor defensive puck moving. Ceci/Nurse pair took a huge step back. Kulak hasn't lived up to what we hoped he would bring. Barrie is a bit better this year, but he still needs to be sheltered from good comp, so his ability to help 5v5 stays limited. Bouch has actually ended up with good possession stats, but his whole season started off in a hole with Campbell letting a goal on every mistake made while Bouch was on the ice. He's not alone as a guy that had poor performance and confidence in the first half, but he's still been able to make enough plays where we've created more with him out there.

I think we'd be set for years with Karlsson/Bouch on the right. But maybe we are just gonna blow that up. Karlsson/Ceci in your top 4 is not going to be good enough IMO. Karlsson can only play ~25 a night, and we probably just glue him to McDavid. The depth forwards get eaten up with the rest of the D being weak which has been our downfall for years.

[Updated on: Mon, 13 February 2023 16:29]

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- MacT, 2015

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818030 is a reply to message #815007 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 16:30

Oscargasm
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Fwiw, I’ve heard it’s not Bouch included. It’s picks. Plural. But Grier not (currently) open to eating more than 20%

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818032 is a reply to message #818030 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 17:35

Mike
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Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 19:30

Fwiw, I’ve heard it’s not Bouch included. It’s picks. Plural. But Grier not (currently) open to eating more than 20%

Whatever - have them retain 20 and give the Hawks or someone something to keep another 20-30%. Karlsson for $4m! 😀

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818033 is a reply to message #818032 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 18:08

Kr55
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Mike wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 17:35

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 19:30

Fwiw, I’ve heard it’s not Bouch included. It’s picks. Plural. But Grier not (currently) open to eating more than 20%

Whatever - have them retain 20 and give the Hawks or someone something to keep another 20-30%. Karlsson for $4m! 😀

Annoying ex-Oilers trying to mess with us as managers too. Does look like we need to toss something to another team to join in.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818036 is a reply to message #815007 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 21:29

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

oops, I accidentally opened a Spector article.

Here is a summary for everyone to try to reduce clicks he gets:

"Like a Joel Edmundson, who makes $3.5 million for this year and next. Send the Montreal Canadiens Puljujarvi and a first-rounder in 2023, and maybe they would retain the necessary $500,000 to make the deal work. "

Rest of the article is about how getting Karlsson is impossible.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818037 is a reply to message #818036 ]	Mon, 13 February 2023 22:44

Oscargasm
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Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

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Kr55 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 21:29

oops, I accidentally opened a Spector article.

Here is a summary for everyone to try to reduce clicks he gets:

"Like a Joel Edmundson, who makes $3.5 million for this year and next. Send the Montreal Canadiens Puljujarvi and a first-rounder in 2023, and maybe they would retain the necessary $500,000 to make the deal work. "

Rest of the article is about how getting Karlsson is impossible.

You left out the pièce de résistance! From the opening of the article, nonetheless lol

Well, it’s kind of like how the analytics folks can turn a struggling player into a team’s “best defensive forward.”

You can invent the math that makes sense out of a Karlsson to Edmonton trade, but it doesn’t mean that math is based on any sort of reality.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818053 is a reply to message #818037 ]	Tue, 14 February 2023 14:21

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 22:44

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 21:29

oops, I accidentally opened a Spector article.

Here is a summary for everyone to try to reduce clicks he gets:

"Like a Joel Edmundson, who makes $3.5 million for this year and next. Send the Montreal Canadiens Puljujarvi and a first-rounder in 2023, and maybe they would retain the necessary $500,000 to make the deal work. "

Rest of the article is about how getting Karlsson is impossible.

You left out the pièce de résistance! From the opening of the article, nonetheless lol

Well, it’s kind of like how the analytics folks can turn a struggling player into a team’s “best defensive forward.”

You can invent the math that makes sense out of a Karlsson to Edmonton trade, but it doesn’t mean that math is based on any sort of reality.

lol, he's such a troll.

But, the self own with the horrible take in there about Edmundson cancels it out nicely.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818054 is a reply to message #818053 ]	Tue, 14 February 2023 16:02

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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Kr55 wrote on Tue, 14 February 2023 14:21

Oscargasm wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 22:44

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 13 February 2023 21:29

oops, I accidentally opened a Spector article.

Here is a summary for everyone to try to reduce clicks he gets:

"Like a Joel Edmundson, who makes $3.5 million for this year and next. Send the Montreal Canadiens Puljujarvi and a first-rounder in 2023, and maybe they would retain the necessary $500,000 to make the deal work. "

Rest of the article is about how getting Karlsson is impossible.

You left out the pièce de résistance! From the opening of the article, nonetheless lol

Well, it’s kind of like how the analytics folks can turn a struggling player into a team’s “best defensive forward.”

You can invent the math that makes sense out of a Karlsson to Edmonton trade, but it doesn’t mean that math is based on any sort of reality.

lol, he's such a troll.

But, the self own with the horrible take in there about Edmundson cancels it out nicely.

He was getting mocked by Greg Wyshynski and Sara Civian for that tragic first paragraph.

Quote:

Greg Wyshynski
@wyshynski
The cringe per 60 of this lede...

Quote:

Sara Civ
@SaraCivian
Replying to @wyshynski
I can invent math? In this economy? Finally getting out of my parents basement

If other sportswriters are trashing your opinion, that's when you know it is a truly epic bad take.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818038 is a reply to message #815007 ]	Tue, 14 February 2023 09:10

Oscargasm
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I’m so ready for a Karlgasm

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818039 is a reply to message #818038 ]	Tue, 14 February 2023 09:13

Dragon_Matt
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Gavrikov healthy scratched for 'trade related' reasons.
If dominoes start falling early, it might put some pressure on Holland to get a move on.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818040 is a reply to message #818039 ]	Tue, 14 February 2023 10:10

Adam
Messages: 7174
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Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 14 February 2023 09:13

Gavrikov healthy scratched for 'trade related' reasons.
If dominoes start falling early, it might put some pressure on Holland to get a move on.

It would be hilarious if the Oilers did jump out first and took Gavrikov off the board...

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818048 is a reply to message #818040 ]	Tue, 14 February 2023 12:18

K.McC#24
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I mean, I wouldn't have an issue with a move like that, early, if the price wasnt stupid. confused2

confused2

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818052 is a reply to message #818048 ]	Tue, 14 February 2023 14:18

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

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If it were ONE of the Oilers moves... but that's not the way we do things here. Oilers get 1... JUST A SINGLE... trade chip a year during the season. We almost used it on Klim Kostin, however he was traded days before the season started and after our final pre-season game.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818065 is a reply to message #818052 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 10:40

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

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https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/travis-yost-the-edmonton-oilers-shoul d-be-all-in-on-erik-karlsson-1.1919707

Oilers hater Travis Yost even thinks the Oilers should go get Karlsson.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818066 is a reply to message #818065 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 10:54

oilfan94
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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 12:40

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/travis-yost-the-edmonton-oilers-shoul d-be-all-in-on-erik-karlsson-1.1919707

Oilers hater Travis Yost even thinks the Oilers should go get Karlsson.

I feel like every sportswriter should cheer for it. Whether it works out or not it will give them tons to write about.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818067 is a reply to message #818066 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 10:59

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
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oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 10:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 12:40

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/travis-yost-the-edmonton-oilers-shoul d-be-all-in-on-erik-karlsson-1.1919707

Oilers hater Travis Yost even thinks the Oilers should go get Karlsson.

I feel like every sportswriter should cheer for it. Whether it works out or not it will give them tons to write about.

That could be very true. I just found it interesting because he rarely says anything remotely favorable towards the Oilers. Maybe he is one of the posters in this site because he would fit right in here.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818069 is a reply to message #818067 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 11:36

Adam
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Location: Edmonton, AB

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RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 10:59

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 10:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 12:40

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/travis-yost-the-edmonton-oilers-shoul d-be-all-in-on-erik-karlsson-1.1919707

Oilers hater Travis Yost even thinks the Oilers should go get Karlsson.

I feel like every sportswriter should cheer for it. Whether it works out or not it will give them tons to write about.

That could be very true. I just found it interesting because he rarely says anything remotely favorable towards the Oilers. Maybe he is one of the posters in this site because he would fit right in here.

Did anyone else hear a sad trombone when they read this?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818070 is a reply to message #818069 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 11:45

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 11:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 10:59

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 10:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 12:40

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/travis-yost-the-edmonton-oilers-shoul d-be-all-in-on-erik-karlsson-1.1919707

Oilers hater Travis Yost even thinks the Oilers should go get Karlsson.

I feel like every sportswriter should cheer for it. Whether it works out or not it will give them tons to write about.

That could be very true. I just found it interesting because he rarely says anything remotely favorable towards the Oilers. Maybe he is one of the posters in this site because he would fit right in here.

Did anyone else hear a sad trombone when they read this?

Admittedly, not all my jokes are Netflix Special quality.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818075 is a reply to message #818069 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 14:29

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

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Adam wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 11:36

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 10:59

oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 10:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 12:40

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/travis-yost-the-edmonton-oilers-shoul d-be-all-in-on-erik-karlsson-1.1919707

Oilers hater Travis Yost even thinks the Oilers should go get Karlsson.

I feel like every sportswriter should cheer for it. Whether it works out or not it will give them tons to write about.

That could be very true. I just found it interesting because he rarely says anything remotely favorable towards the Oilers. Maybe he is one of the posters in this site because he would fit right in here.

Did anyone else hear a sad trombone when they read this?

I saw David Tennant standing in the rain.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818071 is a reply to message #818066 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 13:15

Kr55
Messages: 10769
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Location: Edmonton

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oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 10:54

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 12:40

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/travis-yost-the-edmonton-oilers-shoul d-be-all-in-on-erik-karlsson-1.1919707

Oilers hater Travis Yost even thinks the Oilers should go get Karlsson.

I feel like every sportswriter should cheer for it. Whether it works out or not it will give them tons to write about.

Yeah. It's exciting the idea of McDavid and Karlsson on the same team. Every hockey fan should want to see that.

I don't think it is wrong either to think the oilers need to make a massive move. The weakness in the lineup are damn hard to fix and we haven't had management able to make incremental improvements without us being constantly up against the cap, unable to properly finish the job.

There are certain players in this league that are dominant enough to hide weaknesses for extended periods of time and Karlsson is one of those players. I personally think this is the best way to try to actually have a shot at being a contending team before McDrai need to think about their next deals seriously. And if McDrai are asking for management to go all in to show them they are serious about helping these guys not waste their careers, then I guess that helps make the decision too.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818076 is a reply to message #815007 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 14:36

mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton

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I don't know about Karlsson guys... I think there is a lot of reasons to not want this move.

- He's 32 on a contract that takes him to 36 at $11.5M per season.

- Before this year, hasn't hit 50 points in 4 seasons.

- His contract expires after McDavid and Draisaitl's, so you'd be trying to sign them while Karlsson/Nurse take up $20M in cap space. If you get the Sharks to retain, that helps, but the point still remains that if you need to move him in order to create space for McDrai, you're likely look at spending ANOTHER first round pick or more to dump him. Oilers should be leaving as much flexibility as they can for that period of time.

- The ask appears to be astronomical, bordering on insane.

If this season is an anomaly that is unlikely to repeat itself as he gets older - and that seems very possible - the Oilers are buying at an absolute premium to get a guy unlikely to replicate success and in the process they are torpedo their cap structure. It's not that he's not a good player, it's that he's not a good fit and he is going to require far too high a cost for someone who may never reach this level of play again.

Frankly, I'd pay MORE for Chychrun than I would for Karlsson for all the reasons I mentioned here - good term on contract, good cap hit, young, likely to continue growing in his prime years. If I'm in Ken Holland's shoes, I'm working hard to try and be competitive and win that trade because it sets the Oilers up for better success, if not this year, then for the next 2-6 years.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818081 is a reply to message #818076 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 15:46

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 14:36

I don't know about Karlsson guys... I think there is a lot of reasons to not want this move.

- He's 32 on a contract that takes him to 36 at $11.5M per season.

- Before this year, hasn't hit 50 points in 4 seasons.

- His contract expires after McDavid and Draisaitl's, so you'd be trying to sign them while Karlsson/Nurse take up $20M in cap space. If you get the Sharks to retain, that helps, but the point still remains that if you need to move him in order to create space for McDrai, you're likely look at spending ANOTHER first round pick or more to dump him. Oilers should be leaving as much flexibility as they can for that period of time.

- The ask appears to be astronomical, bordering on insane.

If this season is an anomaly that is unlikely to repeat itself as he gets older - and that seems very possible - the Oilers are buying at an absolute premium to get a guy unlikely to replicate success and in the process they are torpedo their cap structure. It's not that he's not a good player, it's that he's not a good fit and he is going to require far too high a cost for someone who may never reach this level of play again.

Frankly, I'd pay MORE for Chychrun than I would for Karlsson for all the reasons I mentioned here - good term on contract, good cap hit, young, likely to continue growing in his prime years. If I'm in Ken Holland's shoes, I'm working hard to try and be competitive and win that trade because it sets the Oilers up for better success, if not this year, then for the next 2-6 years.

I would not trade for Karlsson unless the Sharks retain a bunch of money. So if you get Karlsson in around 7 mill, it's a slam dunk for me.

I don't worry about his age because he's an elite level player. Elite players play at a higher level way longer than average guys. Plus he's an elite skater. So even if he loses a step in a couple of years, he's still going to be better than most guys.

The production fall off, a lot of it can be contributed to injuries. He's healthy this year for the first time in a few years and look at what he's doing with next to nothing on a Sharks team to play with.

When it comes to Chychrun, the question I have is why hasn't the trade happened yet? He's been on the block for 2 years and not one has traded for him yet. It can't all be injury related, it's something else in my opinion. Everyone goes on and on about his contract and how great it is. They go on and on about how good he is, supposedly he is great defender now too. Yet still he sits. Why? If he is this top pairing does everything good dman signed for cheap, as a GM, all I would want to see from him this year is he's healthy. So far he has been, he's producing, who cares about the cost. If he is truly this stud dman, giving up 2-3 asset for him should be a no brainer. You give the Yotes your first, a good prospect and whatever the 3rd piece and laugh at them as they sit around waiting for maybe all these futures to turn into something. Yet here we sit waiting still. Something doesn't add up to me.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818083 is a reply to message #815007 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 16:06

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
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Cost me a 12 piece nugget from Popeyes to get an update, but Oilers have been informed Karlsson will accept a move to Edmonton.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818084 is a reply to message #818083 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 16:30

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

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Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 16:06

Cost me a 12 piece nugget from Popeyes to get an update, but Oilers have been informed Karlsson will accept a move to Edmonton.

Oilers have made an offer and its now in SJ court to accept/counter. Can I have a Spicy Blackened Deluxe Chicken sandwich please? Its a three hour drive for me to get one.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #818087 is a reply to message #818083 ]	Wed, 15 February 2023 17:30

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 15 February 2023 16:06

Cost me a 12 piece nugget from Popeyes to get an update, but Oilers have been informed Karlsson will accept a move to Edmonton.

Feel free to start a gofundme if you need additional meal bribe funds. I'm sure Oilfans got your back.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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