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Speculation » 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815126 is a reply to message #815124 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 11:16

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Don't forget, Holland will retain 50%. lose-lose and lose.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815127 is a reply to message #815126 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 11:22

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

So you guys think the thing to do is hold on to JP then at the end of the season let him walk for nothing? His qualifying offer is 3 mill. Unless he blows the doors off the last 2/3 of the season no team would resign him for that much. If some team picks him up, they will probably sign him to a 1 yr, close to league min deal next year to see if he can be anything.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815128 is a reply to message #815127 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 11:34

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 11:22

Can you even trade him now?

Personally my focus now would be figuring out why once again this team only has maybe 3 or 4 productive forwards that look like they have a clue. The water is tainted again. What on earth happened to the water at the exact moment woodcroft took over last year?

If the issue is simply the players then Holland should be fired immediately. He signed every current contract this team has aside from McDrai. If there is something else like how the team is approachinh games or relying too much on a couple guys and once again all the depth feels like they can't contribute offensively, fix it asap.

[Updated on: Thu, 08 December 2022 11:37]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815130 is a reply to message #815128 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 11:46

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 11:34

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 11:22

Agreed - Holland should be fired immediately.

I do wonder how much he's influencing coaching decisions? It seems like a different Woodcroft team now. He came in and things seemed to change. Then in the playoffs he went more traditional. We won against a weak Kings team that pushed us to the brink and a Flames team with a shattered Markstrom and then got annihilated by Colorado. The lesson probably should have been that we should have continued with what was working before the playoffs, but instead we've gone the other way and may as well have McLellan or Tippett behind the bench again this year. The most significant difference just seems to be that the PK is now dreadful.

Manson too - had all kinds of success with defenceman development previously so what has happened here this year? They're all shadows of their former selves. Has anyone played up to expectations?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815132 is a reply to message #815130 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 12:00

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

The only reason the Oilers should consider trading Pulju away is if they can get a replacement winger for cheap enough that it allows them to fix their defense. And I don't mean a random minor league replacement winger that exists in Bako, I mean a guy that you'd expect to score 14 this year.

In the summer … I probably walk away. I don't think the argument can be made he's a 3 million dollar player with some potential in Edmonton anymore and I can't imagine him taking a 50% pay cut to stay here. Maybe a change of scenery works, but that's some other team's problem.

And Holland should be fired, except I have no faith in the organization replacing him with anyone better. We'd end up with Holland with a fake goatee or MacTavish again.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815135 is a reply to message #815132 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 12:18

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 12:00

Given the number of people under-performing though, do you have any confidence the defence can be fixed with a trade? Or that another right winger coming in is going to have success where all the others are failing?

I think we're right back to Bob Nicholson's water here...or maybe it's the team culture?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815136 is a reply to message #815135 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 12:24

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 12:18

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 12:00

I have zero confidence that the defense can be fixed this season and less confidence Puljujarvi's production and contribution can be replaced by trade or promotion. I have slightly more confidence Pulju can realize a modicum of his potential here.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815129 is a reply to message #815127 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 11:43

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 11:22

Yes - having a competent if unspectacular right wing for the rest of the year is of more value than a fourth round pick or whatever Holland can squeeze out of Carolina or Florida here. If we lose him for nothing, so be it. In the summer we have more time to address the holes in the roster. Right now, if you throw him in a deal or you trade him for a draft pick, you have the right side eroded further and you get more Devin Shore and whatever farm hand they call up.

It's just not worth it if you're not getting a more productive right winger back.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815144 is a reply to message #815129 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 12:51

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Also, JP is not going to re-sign for league minimum anywhere. If he doesn't turn the gas on and earn at least an equivalent contract next year, he's going home. I'd bet anything.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815145 is a reply to message #815144 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 12:58

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 12:51

Also, JP is not going to re-sign for league minimum anywhere. If he doesn't turn the gas on and earn at least an equivalent contract next year, he's going home. I'd bet anything.

You could be right. Reading his interview comments to the Finnish reporter, it's pretty clear he sees himself as a top line, scoring player. He talked about seeing himself as that and wanting to be that and then through the line out that if he can't do it in the NHL, he might have to go to other leagues. So if he only sees himself as a top line scoring player, would he be happy on another team in a bottom 6 role? I don't see a NHL team next year signing him and putting him on the top line. They would sign him for low money to play in the bottom 6 and then if excels, maybe he moves up but there is no guarantee.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815146 is a reply to message #815144 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 12:58

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 12:51

Also, JP is not going to re-sign for league minimum anywhere. If he doesn't turn the gas on and earn at least an equivalent contract next year, he's going home. I'd bet anything.

I also agree with this. Oulu is a very nice city.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815152 is a reply to message #815129 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 13:41

welcometotheOC
Messages: 646
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown

No Cups

Yes, keep him, absolutely.
I'm lazy so just going to ask the question - can the Oilers not just take him to arbitration? There is one club-elected arbitration per year is there not?
With this year's results he won't get $3million per.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815157 is a reply to message #815152 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 14:03

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

welcometotheOC wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 13:41

You can only file for club-elected arbitration if you've given a qualifying offer. Because of his current salary not matching his current output, he won't get a qualifying offer and we won't have arbitration rights.

And if we DID offer a QO? Well, his agent would be getting him to sign it as fast as possible likely...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815158 is a reply to message #815157 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 14:06

welcometotheOC
Messages: 646
Registered: April 2010
Location: Also, sadly, Cowtown

No Cups

Adam wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 14:03

welcometotheOC wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 13:41

That's what I was afraid of. Oh well, I think he ends up in the KHL then.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815161 is a reply to message #815158 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 14:16

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

I think he ends up on a line with Teemu Hartikinen.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815165 is a reply to message #815127 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 16:53

AndersonRules
Messages: 94
Registered: April 2008
Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma (OKC ar...

No Cups

Even if his year continues as rough as it has been thus far, yes, I gladly give him his QO to keep him. Track record shows he produces at a far higher clip than this, and he's not at an age or stage where his skills/abilities have declined or disappeared. He will 'regress to his mean', and his mean is pretty darn good, and (in my opinion) worth $3M. We disagreed about that over the summer and I'm sure still do. That's fine. You'd trade him for a 2nd-rounder, and think Holland would win that trade in a heartbeat. I wouldn't, and think we would regret the trade (a la Petry, Schultz, etc.).

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815243 is a reply to message #815007 ]	Sun, 11 December 2022 12:47

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Tolvanen from Nashville is on waivers.

1.45M cap hit until end of next season.

A lot like Puljujarvi in that he's a young Finn liked by the advanced stats community but struggling to score.

https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1602018929655910400? s=20&t=Fa4llmhl4ot9rhd6vIK3Nw

Maybe Jesse needs a friend...For a team that regularly plays Malone and Shore, I think I'd be placing a claim.

Clean house or bust

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815251 is a reply to message #815243 ]	Mon, 12 December 2022 11:02

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Sun, 11 December 2022 12:47

I have to think some bottom feeder team will scoop him up. He hasn't really found a scoring touch but his contract isn't that much that he'd be worth a try. If he only ends up scoring low end 3rd liner numbers, a team can handle that given his salary. Compared to JP who at 3 mill, it's tougher for teams to want to take on if the offence doesn't come.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815253 is a reply to message #815243 ]	Mon, 12 December 2022 12:28

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

smyth260 wrote on Sun, 11 December 2022 11:47

And he gets claimed by Seattle, who is both ahead of the Oilers in points and points percentage. So I don't think we made a claim.

More Devin Shore and Malone it is, despite LTIR space to play with.

Clean house or bust

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815254 is a reply to message #815253 ]	Mon, 12 December 2022 12:43

Rider34
Messages: 4
Registered: May 2021

No Cups

A 5'10" bust is not what the Oil need right now. Thank God on the hard pass by the Holland Boys...

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815255 is a reply to message #815254 ]	Mon, 12 December 2022 12:52

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Rider34 wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 11:43

A 5'10" bust is not what the Oil need right now. Thank God on the hard pass by the Holland Boys...

Well it just does not surprise me that an analytics driven team like Seattle took him.

Seattle...as in the team in their second season ahead of the Oilers without the luxury of having Connor McDavid/Leon Draisaitl.

This was a low risk freebie. They have the LTIR money to at least try the guy. If you don't like him, put him back on waivers. It's obvious that current 4th line isn't an NHL 4th line, and the Oilers should be in on the freebies like this.

Clean house or bust

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815257 is a reply to message #815255 ]	Mon, 12 December 2022 13:07

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 12:52

Rider34 wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 11:43

A 5'10" bust is not what the Oil need right now. Thank God on the hard pass by the Holland Boys...

Do we ever reach a point where Oilers media start to argue hard how much of a disadvantage is it to Oilers management to have McDavid and Drai? I mean, all that pressure on the managers to not waste their careers. All the difficulty to try to find the right linemates for such amazing talents that rumors say can be hard to play with, like was always said about Crosby. Then you need certain players that can handle playing on the same team of such amazing guys and not lose their confidence being so much worse than them.

Really, in the end, can we blame Chia and Holland for their bad job? They were dealt a difficult hand if you look at it a certain way.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815259 is a reply to message #815257 ]	Mon, 12 December 2022 14:09

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 13:07

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 12:52

Rider34 wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 11:43

A 5'10" bust is not what the Oil need right now. Thank God on the hard pass by the Holland Boys...

I did a google search for Oilers + curse and it didn't come up with anything relevant, but I almost feel like this was tried in the Hall and Eberle era.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815256 is a reply to message #815253 ]	Mon, 12 December 2022 12:56

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 12:28

smyth260 wrote on Sun, 11 December 2022 11:47

And he gets claimed by Seattle, who is both ahead of the Oilers in points and points percentage. So I don't think we made a claim.

More Devin Shore and Malone it is, despite LTIR space to play with.

I didn't want him until Seattle took him. That team looks pretty good and a lot smarter than the one we watch.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815271 is a reply to message #815256 ]	Mon, 12 December 2022 16:25

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

The only thing I would say is the Oilers already have 1 former first round pick sputtering along not scoring with advances numbers that say maybe someday if he keeps doing what he is doing and his luck turns around, he might score more. That guy makes 3 mill. So to add another guy with the same problem, now you have 4.5 mill tied up in 2 guys that fingers crossed they might figure it out.

If JP wasn't here, I would have been more on board to go get him because he makes half as much.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815279 is a reply to message #815271 ]	Mon, 12 December 2022 18:14

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 16:25

If the organization is looking at opportunities and making decisions based on "we had another player who is struggling/didn't work out" then they're never going to pick up anyone. You just can't evaluate players based on what happened or is happening with someone completely different. Just have to look at are they better than what we have in the lineup now?

Devin Shore has played in 23 of 28 games this year (and the only ones he missed were due to injury. We have now played Brad Malone in 9 more. Malone has now played 40 games with the Oilers over the last 4 years with 1-1-2 to show for it (0-0-0 this year).

Here's the Oilers depth forwards from the year:

Benson - 2 GP 0-0-0
Hamblin - 6 GP 0-0-0
Malone - 9 GP 0-0-0
Shore - 23 GP 0-3-3
Janmark - 14 GP 1-2-3
Holloway - 24 GP 1-3-4
Kostin - 12 GP 2-2-4
Foegele - 20 GP 3-2-5
Puljujarvi - 28 GP 1-5-6
Yamamoto - 16 GP 1-5-6
Derek Ryan - 27 GP 4-3-7
Ryan McLeod - 21 GP 3-5-8

It's a pretty low bar to come in and improve this team and if the Oilers actually prefer Brad Malone to just about anyone? It's not a good sign.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815289 is a reply to message #815279 ]	Mon, 12 December 2022 19:33

inverno76
Messages: 2342
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Puljujarvi’s numbers don’t look so bad with those scrubs (I’m blatantly ignoring his top line minutes).

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815317 is a reply to message #815279 ]	Tue, 13 December 2022 09:22

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 18:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 16:25

When healthy, McLeod and Foegele are in, 2 of Shore, Malone and Hamblin are out. In all likelihood Malone and Hamblin are in the minors, Shore is your extra. He can play center or wing, can kill penalties if you need him too, he knows his role and seems to be the ultimate team guy and he only makes 850K. So if he's in the pressbox most nights, he's not killing you cap wise. Big thing is he's buddies with McD and the main group. You may think he is useless but being a team guy and willing to accept a role when that role is you won't play much and still be positive means something.

If JP wasn't here, it would have made sense to me to take a flyer on the guy. I just don't know if bringing in another project was the right idea. If JP wasn't making 3 mill, that might change something. But they have the cost of 2 decent bottom 6 guys tied up in JP's salary and they aren't getting much from him at the moment.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815319 is a reply to message #815317 ]	Tue, 13 December 2022 10:15

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Tue, 13 December 2022 09:22

Adam wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 18:14

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 12 December 2022 16:25

Shore hasn't been used as the extra this year in Edmonton - he's been treated as a full-time NHL player, despite the fact that his production is miserable. He's only missed the games where he's been hurt.

Doing that little exercise yesterday was interesting - Derek Ryan, who we both recently savaged as washed up, turns out to be the best goal scorer outside the top guys. Who saw that coming? Although that is at the end of a week where he doubled his output on the year.

No one has been very impactful though, and Woodcroft should be looking in the mirror and asking why. There's a definite question whether picking up another depth guy makes any sense if they're pushed in to this system where they all fail and have for years other than a couple months of Woodcroft last year.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815406 is a reply to message #815319 ]	Wed, 14 December 2022 12:33

Jakey
Messages: 40
Registered: November 2007
Location: Leduc

No Cups

Comtois in Anaheim is a guy I would like to take a chance on. Trade JP straight up if they would do it…money is close. Ducks r tired of him like we r of JP. Change of scenery would be good for Comtois and be a natural 3rd liner we could use with no pressure to be a top 6 guy. Would save us almost $1 Million in cap space if done straight up which is very useful for future trades.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815407 is a reply to message #815406 ]	Wed, 14 December 2022 12:42

Jakey
Messages: 40
Registered: November 2007
Location: Leduc

No Cups

The other player I like that is said to be available is Provorov in Philly. He plays 1st pairing minutes which he should play 2nd pairing and I believe that he would be very effective as a 2nd pair Dman. Fletcher could be dumped this year and the rebuild in Philly could start.

I think our 1st, JP, Lavoie + Klefbom contract gets the conversation started. Probably need to add a higher prospect like Niemelainen vs Lavoie most likely.

Provorov is a LD, plays a solid physical game, has decent wheels and has 2 more years at $6.75 M.

Thoughts?

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815409 is a reply to message #815407 ]	Wed, 14 December 2022 13:14

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I think the Oilers first rounder in a draft that is supposed to be deep is in play. I think they will want to bring in a guy that either has some term or a guy they can resign. I don't see them sending their first for a rental.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817055 is a reply to message #815409 ]	Fri, 20 January 2023 11:09

Babaganoosh2.0
Messages: 396
Registered: December 2018
Location: Southern AB

No Cups

Sounds like Erik Karlsson is on the block. I know the money would never work out but damn if he isn't having a monster season.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817057 is a reply to message #817055 ]	Fri, 20 January 2023 11:15

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

He is having an amazing year but that contract of his has boat anchor written all over it. He will be 33 in May and will have 4 more years left.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817075 is a reply to message #817057 ]	Sat, 21 January 2023 10:08

Jakey
Messages: 40
Registered: November 2007
Location: Leduc

No Cups

Here are the 2 trades I think could happen and why….

Trade #1

To Habs - JP & 2023-1st rd pick
To Oilers - Edmundson ($1.3M retained)

We get a low level 2nd pairing Dman that is nasty & 1 more year fairly cheap on the cap. Broberg takes the 2nd pair LD spot in 2 years & learns the game from some vets better. Cap room gained in this trade is used to get a solid 3rd line player.

Trade # 2

To Preds - 2023 2nd rd pick, Shore & Lavoie
To Oilers - Jeannot

Preds don’t want to pay Jeannot the $$$ he wants as he has arb rights this summer (guessing $3 million/yr is the player ask)….they get a high pick plus a really big player with some skill in return.
We get that huge bruising 3rd line guy we desperately need in top 9 for cheap cap hit this year & give him $2.5 M/yr x 3years in summer. The JP cap $$$ go mostly to this contract.

These are the 2 trades I would look to do before the trade deadline. I don’t want to give up a 1st for Edmundson, but getting them to retain some cap $$$ for 2 years is key to trading the first. There are better 2 pair LHD out there, but the cap $$$ just don’t work or there is baggage (I like Provorov as a 2nd pair LD hockey player, but his recent statements could upset the locker room & can’t take on those risks for a $6.75 M cap hit for 2 more years.)

Oilers would immediately get way bigger, increase toughness tremendously & have the balance of size/skill/grit we all have been wanting them to get. This would be the type of team that can play against big/tough opponents in the playoffs like Calgary/Vegas/LA/Colorado IMO.

[Updated on: Sat, 21 January 2023 10:10]

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817080 is a reply to message #817075 ]	Sat, 21 January 2023 17:37

Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006

No Cups

The Jeannot trade idea sounds ok to me, and I know the Edmundson one has been in the media but that first round pick is just an awful price to give up for a JAG even if they’re dying to dump Jesse.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817132 is a reply to message #817080 ]	Sat, 21 January 2023 22:58

Jakey
Messages: 40
Registered: November 2007
Location: Leduc

No Cups

Ya for sure the 1st for a low end #4/#5 Dman is a lot. I like Gavrikov better and would be more open to getting him for a 1st, but the Jackets want more than that and he’s UFA so getting Edmundson would get you at least 1 more year of hockey at a cheaper price.

Maybe JP, 1st and a conditional 3rd for Gavrikov if he signs with us? His contract is $2.8M which is cheaper which would be easier to work around for sure.

I believe Gavrikov is a bit better than Edmundson…Edmundson is pretty nasty which I like as well. Nasty is great for playoff hockey.

Jeannot would take an overpay to get him IMO. That type of trade is what the Lightning have done in the past to get the type of player they are really targeting.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817138 is a reply to message #817132 ]	Sun, 22 January 2023 01:43

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Jakey wrote on Sat, 21 January 2023 22:58

The problem is that the Oilers management fundamentally misunderstands trade dynamics and has for years. They're actually concerned about what a team is asking for a player. That really shouldn't trip them up.

There are 88 UFA-to-be defencemen listed on Capfriendly. Not all of them are going to be great targets, and several are with playoff-bound teams that are likely to keep them. Even removing those, and there's a bunch of decent defencemen who the team should be considering. Included on the list from also-ran teams:

Klingberg
Gostisbehere
Shattenkirk
Hamonic
Gavrikov
Moore
Kulikov
Maata
Mikkola
Oesterle
Holden
Stecher
J. Johnson
Tinordi
Borowiecki
L. Schenn
M. Staal

The list goes on. Now, none of those guys are going to turn the team around over night, but if you want "just a guy" like Edmundson, there's plenty of cheap options. And you shouldn't overpay because you set your price and stick to it, and as it gets closer to the deadline and buyers leave the market because they either fade in the standings or make their move and use their cap space, then you have a bunch of sellers who face losing the player for nothing in the summer.

Holland has ranted before that he doesn't like "rentals" but it's a foolish position. You get those players because they're relatively cheap at that point with their team facing an early summer and the loss of the player with no compensation. There's always going to be a few GMs who blink and overpay for some top talent on rentals, but there's always going to be some bargains too, because keeping the player usually doesn't make any sense.

The fact is, we had guys like Kane and Kulak who were essentially rentals last year and both not only seemed to contribute, but also signed back on for more.

It's great if you can get a good long-term piece at a reasonable price, and if Arizona is desperate to make a mistake with Chychrun, then I'd love to see us help them to make that error, but failing that the last thing they should do is overpay for a guy Montreal fans all hate for being a total plug.

The team should be approaching this with the idea that draft picks and prospects are in play for the right guy and they're open for business (with a capologist figuring out every trick they can use to save every single dollar they can on the salary cap). They should not be putting out there (as Nugent-Bowman reports) that they feel Broberg and Holloway are completely untouchables - no one other than 97 and 29 should be untouchable. And if we are just getting depth help and not a guy who makes a real impact, then they just shouldn't make a trade. Paying a high draft pick for a mediocre defenceman doesn't accomplish anything besides throwing away a trading chip that could be better used.

Edmundson is a 6-point defenceman who's a team-worst -19 on the season. His contract is bloated for what he brings, and he would come with another season left on his deal, so you're stuck over-paying him next year too. No amount of "mean" is going to make him worth even a second round pick and if someone else is willing to pay that? Then good luck to them.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817154 is a reply to message #817138 ]	Mon, 23 January 2023 11:24

Jakey
Messages: 40
Registered: November 2007
Location: Leduc

No Cups

With the Sens putting Josh Norris on IR for the rest of the year, Dorion might be thinking he could be selling AGAIN lol.

A small trade, but could be one that could solid for 4th line grit and depth could be Austin Watson.

Watson has decent speed, solid size, plays gritty/hits and is on a $1.5 million cap hit UFA contract. If Sens were to eat half of it he would come in at $750 K which is pretty cheap for a guy I think we could use a decent amount in the bottom 6.

4th or 5th rd pick plus Murray or Shore for cap hit going to Sens gets it done ???

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817155 is a reply to message #817154 ]	Mon, 23 January 2023 11:44

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I have zero issue with the team saying Holloway and Broberg are almost untouchable. Championship teams in a cap world badly need high end players making next to no money. So if they stay with the team, they need guys like them on their team. That being said, I truly believe the only 2 untouchables are McD and Leon. Telling the world that they see Broberg and Holloway as extremely valuable to me tells other GM's if you think you are getting one of those 2 ++, it won't happen. As an example, the ridiculous plus of 2 firsts + Broberg for Chychrun, that rightly squashes that idea.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #817158 is a reply to message #817155 ]	Mon, 23 January 2023 14:45

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 23 January 2023 11:44

I'm shocked, SHOCKED that you're on board with Oilers management.

Honestly, I don't get upset about what other people propose on a trade - especially since we're only ever getting pieces of information, usually supplied by the Oilers brass to their lapdogs in the media who'll help build a case that they just can't do trades. Most of what you hear is designed to inflame the public.

In reality, the first ask from a team is probably always going to be a bit high, and it's almost certainly higher when dealing with the Oilers, because the GM has long shown himself to be really bad at trades, especially for a player of any stature. You start high because he's going to skew higher then.

If the Oilers want a cost-controlled long-term signed defenceman like Chychrun, the price is likely to be high. I don't really believe it's two 1st rounds and Broberg, but if it's one and Broberg? That's pretty reasonable. He's unquestionably an upgrade. Couple years older and more developed, putting up great points. He's the second most used defenceman on the powerplay, and he's taking the most minutes per game currently too. Seldom used on the PK, but he adds more of what the team needs - a player who can transition the puck.

I like Broberg, but his ceiling isn't likely to be where Chycrun is at currently. If you can do a deal without giving him up? Great - then find a way! But the reality is that that would be an upgrade to the team - and the team needs to compete for a Cup THIS YEAR and for the next two or three afterwards, so anything you can do to improve the roster is important and first round picks or projects who might peak in 4-5 years aren't the key.

The problem is that if we aren't competitive in the next couple of years then McDavid leaves and there is nothing but ashes here. Unless that first round pick is ready to fill his skates when he goes, then he's just not the most important piece.

There's a pretty good argument to be made that the Oilers shouldn't look to trade players like Broberg and Holloway because the GM is too crappy to make a good deal with those players - but I still think saying they're untouchable is silly. Why even comment to be honest? I'd tell the interviewer: "You can go up and down my roster and I'll say the same thing for everyone. If there's a deal that improves the team, we'll explore it. If there isn't then I won't. I'm not interested in commenting on whether certain players are available or not."

Sadly, Ken Holland is a putz and has no idea how to intelligently answer questions in interviews.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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