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2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815007]	Tue, 06 December 2022 17:34

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Getting into interesting times with the team struggling. Lots of ways an Oilers GM could toss future pieces to try to fix the many holes that we appear to have.

Couple doozies to start off:

Dyl @dhockey13
Insider trading: Darren Dreger says some in the Oilers organization are interested in Erik Karlsson and that Ken Holland main priority is upgrading the defence #LetsGoOilers

Also hearing claims the oilers could be interested in Edmundson. Caught Dreger on the radio saying the cost would be at least a 1st now because it's early in the season.

So, trying to get Karlsson after years of struggle when he is now leading all D in points, which probably would cost multiple 1sts and prospects. Or a mediocre D with a cup ring (right place at the right time variety) with a massive overpay. Great starting point I'd say for some panic moves.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815009 is a reply to message #815007 ]	Tue, 06 December 2022 19:35

smyth260
Messages: 1080
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

He'd make the team better but at a pretty detrimental cost to your future flexibility. 4 years after this and 33 in May. You'd also be buying high. The guy is on a heater right now that won't last.

I wouldn't even think about it without max retained salary. Chychrun Ken, that's the play!!!

Clean house or bust

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815014 is a reply to message #815009 ]	Tue, 06 December 2022 21:39

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 06 December 2022 19:35

He'd make the team better but at a pretty detrimental cost to your future flexibility. 4 years after this and 33 in May. You'd also be buying high. The guy is on a heater right now that won't last.

I wouldn't even think about it without max retained salary. Chychrun Ken, that's the play!!!

Can't help but picture a trade like Bouchard+Pulju + 2 1sts and 2nd for Karlsson.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815015 is a reply to message #815014 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 01:45

nullterm
Messages: 1032
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC

1 Cup

If Campbell had all his marbles together, I could maybe see a play for Karlsson. But given we'd have to give up some big pieces of the future and then four more years of $11.5 million cap... when we already have Nurse's $9.25 million cap?

Can't run a team with half your cap on four players, no matter how good they may be.

Unless it's a 1-for-1 with Nurse. But I can't even fathom how to gauge if you win or lose that trade. Maybe getting out from the last three years? Going from 8 year contract to a 5?

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815020 is a reply to message #815015 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 08:36

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Karlsson is ELITE offensively, ELITE. He'd instantly make the Oilers PP even better, their puck transition way better and their entire team offense would be better. Problem is, he's probably only marginally better than Barrie defensively.

But

If you could get the Sharks to eat a significant chunk of his salary, I would explore it.

The package would have to include Barrie. They are just swapping teams. I would include JP. He's got little to no trade value but he's to make sure the money works and realistically he's a good as gone from the Oilers at the end of this season. If they can't trade him, the Oilers won't qualify him at 3 mill. That's too much. Then you have to add in a 1st then probably another asset like a Broberg.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815023 is a reply to message #815020 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 08:53

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:36

Karlsson is ELITE offensively, ELITE. He'd instantly make the Oilers PP even better, their puck transition way better and their entire team offense would be better. Problem is, he's probably only marginally better than Barrie defensively.

But

If you could get the Sharks to eat a significant chunk of his salary, I would explore it.

The package would have to include Barrie. They are just swapping teams. I would include JP. He's got little to no trade value but he's to make sure the money works and realistically he's a good as gone from the Oilers at the end of this season. If they can't trade him, the Oilers won't qualify him at 3 mill. That's too much. Then you have to add in a 1st then probably another asset like a Broberg.

Karlsson is having an incredible year, but he's 32 and has five seasons left at $11.5MM including this one. He's had injury issues and hasn't played a full season since 2015-16. He's an offensive dynamo, but has had some holes in his game on the defensive side at times - he's a career -82 and only once was a plus player with the Sharks, with the caveat that he's played on a lot of bad teams.

I think he probably would make the Oilers better this year, however, that contract scares the hell out of me, as does the idea of Holland making a trade like that. He'd be buying high, with Karlsson leading the league in defenceman scoring, and he doesn't have a record of making successful trades at the best of times. You'll remember, we got fleeced for an ancient defenceman with a no-move clause who only wanted to come here, sooooo what does it look like when trading for one of the league leaders? I could see us mortgaging a lot of the future, blowing another hole in the roster at a different position now, and then dealing with an oft-injured struggling player for much of the next several seasons while devastated by the cap consequences of having another guy making that kind of money. Can we be successful while paying $20MM to our top defence pair?

As much as it sucks to say, with Holland in the GM chair, I think the answer might need to come from within...maybe Woodcroft needs to go out in to the woods and rediscover himself from last year. I think that has a better chance at success than a Ken Holland deal.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815032 is a reply to message #815023 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 09:36

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:36

Karlsson is ELITE offensively, ELITE. He'd instantly make the Oilers PP even better, their puck transition way better and their entire team offense would be better. Problem is, he's probably only marginally better than Barrie defensively.

But

If you could get the Sharks to eat a significant chunk of his salary, I would explore it.

The package would have to include Barrie. They are just swapping teams. I would include JP. He's got little to no trade value but he's to make sure the money works and realistically he's a good as gone from the Oilers at the end of this season. If they can't trade him, the Oilers won't qualify him at 3 mill. That's too much. Then you have to add in a 1st then probably another asset like a Broberg.

Karlsson is having an incredible year, but he's 32 and has five seasons left at $11.5MM including this one. He's had injury issues and hasn't played a full season since 2015-16. He's an offensive dynamo, but has had some holes in his game on the defensive side at times - he's a career -82 and only once was a plus player with the Sharks, with the caveat that he's played on a lot of bad teams.

I think he probably would make the Oilers better this year, however, that contract scares the hell out of me, as does the idea of Holland making a trade like that. He'd be buying high, with Karlsson leading the league in defenceman scoring, and he doesn't have a record of making successful trades at the best of times. You'll remember, we got fleeced for an ancient defenceman with a no-move clause who only wanted to come here, sooooo what does it look like when trading for one of the league leaders? I could see us mortgaging a lot of the future, blowing another hole in the roster at a different position now, and then dealing with an oft-injured struggling player for much of the next several seasons while devastated by the cap consequences of having another guy making that kind of money. Can we be successful while paying $20MM to our top defence pair?

As much as it sucks to say, with Holland in the GM chair, I think the answer might need to come from within...maybe Woodcroft needs to go out in to the woods and rediscover himself from last year. I think that has a better chance at success than a Ken Holland deal.

I guess you didn't read my post very well. I literally said I wouldn't do it unless they ate a big chunk of salary.

[Updated on: Wed, 07 December 2022 11:36]

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815033 is a reply to message #815032 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 09:49

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 09:36

Adam wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:36

Karlsson is ELITE offensively, ELITE. He'd instantly make the Oilers PP even better, their puck transition way better and their entire team offense would be better. Problem is, he's probably only marginally better than Barrie defensively.

But

If you could get the Sharks to eat a significant chunk of his salary, I would explore it.

The package would have to include Barrie. They are just swapping teams. I would include JP. He's got little to no trade value but he's to make sure the money works and realistically he's a good as gone from the Oilers at the end of this season. If they can't trade him, the Oilers won't qualify him at 3 mill. That's too much. Then you have to add in a 1st then probably another asset like a Broberg.

Karlsson is having an incredible year, but he's 32 and has five seasons left at $11.5MM including this one. He's had injury issues and hasn't played a full season since 2015-16. He's an offensive dynamo, but has had some holes in his game on the defensive side at times - he's a career -82 and only once was a plus player with the Sharks, with the caveat that he's played on a lot of bad teams.

I think he probably would make the Oilers better this year, however, that contract scares the hell out of me, as does the idea of Holland making a trade like that. He'd be buying high, with Karlsson leading the league in defenceman scoring, and he doesn't have a record of making successful trades at the best of times. You'll remember, we got fleeced for an ancient defenceman with a no-move clause who only wanted to come here, sooooo what does it look like when trading for one of the league leaders? I could see us mortgaging a lot of the future, blowing another hole in the roster at a different position now, and then dealing with an oft-injured struggling player for much of the next several seasons while devastated by the cap consequences of having another guy making that kind of money. Can we be successful while paying $20MM to our top defence pair?

As much as it sucks to say, with Holland in the GM chair, I think the answer might need to come from within...maybe Woodcroft needs to go out in to the woods and rediscover himself from last year. I think that has a better chance at success than a Ken Holland deal.

I guess you didn't read my post very well. I literally said in the first sentence, I wouldn't do it unless they ate a big chunk of salary.

While I replied to your post, I was not disputing or challenging your position. If anything, I was building on it.

For what it's worth, even with them keeping back salary, I'd be nervous.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815035 is a reply to message #815033 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 11:15

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 09:49

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 09:36

Adam wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:36

Karlsson is ELITE offensively, ELITE. He'd instantly make the Oilers PP even better, their puck transition way better and their entire team offense would be better. Problem is, he's probably only marginally better than Barrie defensively.

But

If you could get the Sharks to eat a significant chunk of his salary, I would explore it.

The package would have to include Barrie. They are just swapping teams. I would include JP. He's got little to no trade value but he's to make sure the money works and realistically he's a good as gone from the Oilers at the end of this season. If they can't trade him, the Oilers won't qualify him at 3 mill. That's too much. Then you have to add in a 1st then probably another asset like a Broberg.

Karlsson is having an incredible year, but he's 32 and has five seasons left at $11.5MM including this one. He's had injury issues and hasn't played a full season since 2015-16. He's an offensive dynamo, but has had some holes in his game on the defensive side at times - he's a career -82 and only once was a plus player with the Sharks, with the caveat that he's played on a lot of bad teams.

I think he probably would make the Oilers better this year, however, that contract scares the hell out of me, as does the idea of Holland making a trade like that. He'd be buying high, with Karlsson leading the league in defenceman scoring, and he doesn't have a record of making successful trades at the best of times. You'll remember, we got fleeced for an ancient defenceman with a no-move clause who only wanted to come here, sooooo what does it look like when trading for one of the league leaders? I could see us mortgaging a lot of the future, blowing another hole in the roster at a different position now, and then dealing with an oft-injured struggling player for much of the next several seasons while devastated by the cap consequences of having another guy making that kind of money. Can we be successful while paying $20MM to our top defence pair?

As much as it sucks to say, with Holland in the GM chair, I think the answer might need to come from within...maybe Woodcroft needs to go out in to the woods and rediscover himself from last year. I think that has a better chance at success than a Ken Holland deal.

I guess you didn't read my post very well. I literally said in the first sentence, I wouldn't do it unless they ate a big chunk of salary.

While I replied to your post, I was not disputing or challenging your position. If anything, I was building on it.

For what it's worth, even with them keeping back salary, I'd be nervous.

It would be a risk for sure. No different than trading for Chychrun who's acquisition cost would probably be more than Karlsson in my opinion and who's never played a full season ever. For the Oilers to improve their defense, there is going to be a big risk with whoever they bring on.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815036 is a reply to message #815032 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 11:20

AndersonRules
Messages: 94
Registered: April 2008
Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma (OKC ar...

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 09:36

Adam wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:36

Karlsson is ELITE offensively, ELITE. He'd instantly make the Oilers PP even better, their puck transition way better and their entire team offense would be better. Problem is, he's probably only marginally better than Barrie defensively.

But

If you could get the Sharks to eat a significant chunk of his salary, I would explore it.

The package would have to include Barrie. They are just swapping teams. I would include JP. He's got little to no trade value but he's to make sure the money works and realistically he's a good as gone from the Oilers at the end of this season. If they can't trade him, the Oilers won't qualify him at 3 mill. That's too much. Then you have to add in a 1st then probably another asset like a Broberg.

Karlsson is having an incredible year, but he's 32 and has five seasons left at $11.5MM including this one. He's had injury issues and hasn't played a full season since 2015-16. He's an offensive dynamo, but has had some holes in his game on the defensive side at times - he's a career -82 and only once was a plus player with the Sharks, with the caveat that he's played on a lot of bad teams.

I think he probably would make the Oilers better this year, however, that contract scares the hell out of me, as does the idea of Holland making a trade like that. He'd be buying high, with Karlsson leading the league in defenceman scoring, and he doesn't have a record of making successful trades at the best of times. You'll remember, we got fleeced for an ancient defenceman with a no-move clause who only wanted to come here, sooooo what does it look like when trading for one of the league leaders? I could see us mortgaging a lot of the future, blowing another hole in the roster at a different position now, and then dealing with an oft-injured struggling player for much of the next several seasons while devastated by the cap consequences of having another guy making that kind of money. Can we be successful while paying $20MM to our top defence pair?

As much as it sucks to say, with Holland in the GM chair, I think the answer might need to come from within...maybe Woodcroft needs to go out in to the woods and rediscover himself from last year. I think that has a better chance at success than a Ken Holland deal.

I guess you didn't read my post very well. I literally said in the first sentence, I wouldn't do it unless they ate a big chunk of salary.

Sorry to be picky, but I'm feeling snarky today ... you literally did NOT literally say that in your first sentence ... it was in your third sentence.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815037 is a reply to message #815036 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 11:28

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

AndersonRules wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 11:20

Sorry to be picky, but I'm feeling snarky today ... you literally did NOT literally say that in your first sentence ... it was in your third sentence.

I was going to be pedantic about this post for fun, but when I looked up proper use of ellipses I learned there SHOULD be a space in front of the three dots. I had no idea.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815048 is a reply to message #815037 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 14:11

PlusOne
Messages: 1586
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 12:28

AndersonRules wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 11:20

Sorry to be picky, but I'm feeling snarky today ... you literally did NOT literally say that in your first sentence ... it was in your third sentence.

I was going to be pedantic about this post for fun, but when I looked up proper use of ellipses I learned there SHOULD be a space in front of the three dots. I had no idea.

I come here for the hockey knowledge and have learned a pile from the excellent group of hockey minds we have.
Today I learned I have been adding the ellipses wrong all my life, and I use them a lot.

Thanks ... like Anderson, you also rule.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

und(i)sputed O.L.F.N Heavybra(i)n Champ(i)on of the Woooooooooooooooooorld. Plus. One.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815062 is a reply to message #815048 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 16:38

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 14:11

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 12:28

AndersonRules wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 11:20

Sorry to be picky, but I'm feeling snarky today ... you literally did NOT literally say that in your first sentence ... it was in your third sentence.

I was going to be pedantic about this post for fun, but when I looked up proper use of ellipses I learned there SHOULD be a space in front of the three dots. I had no idea.

I come here for the hockey knowledge and have learned a pile from the excellent group of hockey minds we have.
Today I learned I have been adding the ellipses wrong all my life, and I use them a lot.

Thanks ... like Anderson, you also rule.

wth!!

https://media.tenor.com/tvFWFDXRrmMAAAAd/blow-mind-mind-blown.gif

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815068 is a reply to message #815037 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 19:36

AndersonRules
Messages: 94
Registered: April 2008
Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma (OKC ar...

No Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 11:28

AndersonRules wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 11:20

Sorry to be picky, but I'm feeling snarky today ... you literally did NOT literally say that in your first sentence ... it was in your third sentence.

I was going to be pedantic about this post for fun, but when I looked up proper use of ellipses I learned there SHOULD be a space in front of the three dots. I had no idea.

icon_nod

I love it! Thanks Pi! Made my evening ... just a little bit less snarky.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815038 is a reply to message #815036 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 11:35

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

AndersonRules wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 11:20

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 09:36

Adam wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:53

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:36

Karlsson is ELITE offensively, ELITE. He'd instantly make the Oilers PP even better, their puck transition way better and their entire team offense would be better. Problem is, he's probably only marginally better than Barrie defensively.

But

If you could get the Sharks to eat a significant chunk of his salary, I would explore it.

The package would have to include Barrie. They are just swapping teams. I would include JP. He's got little to no trade value but he's to make sure the money works and realistically he's a good as gone from the Oilers at the end of this season. If they can't trade him, the Oilers won't qualify him at 3 mill. That's too much. Then you have to add in a 1st then probably another asset like a Broberg.

Karlsson is having an incredible year, but he's 32 and has five seasons left at $11.5MM including this one. He's had injury issues and hasn't played a full season since 2015-16. He's an offensive dynamo, but has had some holes in his game on the defensive side at times - he's a career -82 and only once was a plus player with the Sharks, with the caveat that he's played on a lot of bad teams.

I think he probably would make the Oilers better this year, however, that contract scares the hell out of me, as does the idea of Holland making a trade like that. He'd be buying high, with Karlsson leading the league in defenceman scoring, and he doesn't have a record of making successful trades at the best of times. You'll remember, we got fleeced for an ancient defenceman with a no-move clause who only wanted to come here, sooooo what does it look like when trading for one of the league leaders? I could see us mortgaging a lot of the future, blowing another hole in the roster at a different position now, and then dealing with an oft-injured struggling player for much of the next several seasons while devastated by the cap consequences of having another guy making that kind of money. Can we be successful while paying $20MM to our top defence pair?

As much as it sucks to say, with Holland in the GM chair, I think the answer might need to come from within...maybe Woodcroft needs to go out in to the woods and rediscover himself from last year. I think that has a better chance at success than a Ken Holland deal.

I guess you didn't read my post very well. I literally said in the first sentence, I wouldn't do it unless they ate a big chunk of salary.

Sorry to be picky, but I'm feeling snarky today ... you literally did NOT literally say that in your first sentence ... it was in your third sentence.

Great, thanks for pointing that out and reminding me why I some days can't stand this place. I fixed it so now you don't have to see it anymore and feel the need to pick a fight.

[Updated on: Wed, 07 December 2022 11:37]

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815069 is a reply to message #815038 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 19:38

AndersonRules
Messages: 94
Registered: April 2008
Location: Shawnee, Oklahoma (OKC ar...

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Sorry man - I really wasn't trying to pick a fight. It was just an opportunity for snarky humor. I love your posts, even when I disagree with them - and on this particular occasion I didn't even disagree with your post!

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815025 is a reply to message #815020 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 09:00

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:36

Karlsson is ELITE offensively, ELITE. He'd instantly make the Oilers PP even better, their puck transition way better and their entire team offense would be better. Problem is, he's probably only marginally better than Barrie defensively.

But

If you could get the Sharks to eat a significant chunk of his salary, I would explore it.

The package would have to include Barrie. They are just swapping teams. I would include JP. He's got little to no trade value but he's to make sure the money works and realistically he's a good as gone from the Oilers at the end of this season. If they can't trade him, the Oilers won't qualify him at 3 mill. That's too much. Then you have to add in a 1st then probably another asset like a Broberg.

I think we've kinda maxed out what our PP can do already, and it barely has anything to do with the D we ice. We're 2nd in the NHL on the PP. The more we score on the PP from here, the more scared refs get about giving us a PP :) We know how this league works now, especially in the playoffs.

We badly need to get better 5v5, and Karlsson could help with that, but at 11.5M, I don't think that's a good use of cap space, along with the risk of injuries. Kulak and Ceci not being able to be as reliable as they were last year has really thrown our top 4 in disarray. Wish there was a less costly option to fill out the top 4, ideally a LHD. Not Edmundson, no idea why that has so much legs in media, like there is some scam going on to try to trick us into overpaying for a mediocre D because he has a cup ring.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815027 is a reply to message #815025 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 09:02

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 09:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:36

Karlsson is ELITE offensively, ELITE. He'd instantly make the Oilers PP even better, their puck transition way better and their entire team offense would be better. Problem is, he's probably only marginally better than Barrie defensively.

But

If you could get the Sharks to eat a significant chunk of his salary, I would explore it.

The package would have to include Barrie. They are just swapping teams. I would include JP. He's got little to no trade value but he's to make sure the money works and realistically he's a good as gone from the Oilers at the end of this season. If they can't trade him, the Oilers won't qualify him at 3 mill. That's too much. Then you have to add in a 1st then probably another asset like a Broberg.

I think we've kinda maxed out what our PP can do already, and it barely has anything to do with the D we ice. We're 2nd in the NHL on the PP. The more we score on the PP from here, the more scared refs get about giving us a PP :) We know how this league works now, especially in the playoffs.

We badly need to get better 5v5, and Karlsson could help with that, but at 11.5M, I don't think that's a good use of cap space, along with the risk of injuries. Kulak and Ceci not being able to be as reliable as they were last year has really thrown our top 4 in disarray. Wish there was a less costly option to fill out the top 4, ideally a LHD. Not Edmundson, no idea why that has so much legs in media, like there is some scam going on to try to trick us into overpaying for a mediocre D because he has a cup ring.

Edmundson is big. The Edmonton media LOVE big. Also, he hurt one of our players which always improves his stock here.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815028 is a reply to message #815027 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 09:06

Kr55
Messages: 10767
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 09:02

Kr55 wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 09:00

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 08:36

Karlsson is ELITE offensively, ELITE. He'd instantly make the Oilers PP even better, their puck transition way better and their entire team offense would be better. Problem is, he's probably only marginally better than Barrie defensively.

But

If you could get the Sharks to eat a significant chunk of his salary, I would explore it.

The package would have to include Barrie. They are just swapping teams. I would include JP. He's got little to no trade value but he's to make sure the money works and realistically he's a good as gone from the Oilers at the end of this season. If they can't trade him, the Oilers won't qualify him at 3 mill. That's too much. Then you have to add in a 1st then probably another asset like a Broberg.

I think we've kinda maxed out what our PP can do already, and it barely has anything to do with the D we ice. We're 2nd in the NHL on the PP. The more we score on the PP from here, the more scared refs get about giving us a PP :) We know how this league works now, especially in the playoffs.

We badly need to get better 5v5, and Karlsson could help with that, but at 11.5M, I don't think that's a good use of cap space, along with the risk of injuries. Kulak and Ceci not being able to be as reliable as they were last year has really thrown our top 4 in disarray. Wish there was a less costly option to fill out the top 4, ideally a LHD. Not Edmundson, no idea why that has so much legs in media, like there is some scam going on to try to trick us into overpaying for a mediocre D because he has a cup ring.

Edmundson is big. The Edmonton media LOVE big. Also, he hurt one of our players which always improves his stock here.

haha, Oilers execs, management after seeing that hit

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5d/34/71/5d347153192e3fc13c1ff912f05a502d.gif

Just ignore how Edmunson's crosscheck to Hyman's head ruined the game for his team. He has a cup ring after all.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
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5 x $5,000,000

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815042 is a reply to message #815028 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 13:02

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

A trade that changes the entire complexion of the team.

Yotes

Chychrun -4.6 mill - top 4 dman that plays physical, play on both specials, plays 20 mins a night and is signed.
Crouse - 4.3 mill - top 4 left winger that can skate, big, physical, scores, kill penalties and is signed.
Bjugstad - 900k - Big, bottom 6 center that can score some, physical edge, kills penalties.

Cost - 9.8 mill

Oilers
JP - 3 mill. Big, young, good skating winger that has skill but can't figure it out in Edmonton offensively. Maybe being in a market like Arizona where there is zero pressure can help him find himself. Lots of players do well in markets like this. Oli Jokinen back in the day was a classic example. He needs a fresh start. I don't see the Oilers qualifying him at 3 mill if he's not traded.
Broberg - 863K - Young, great skating, big dman that isn't established. Oilers top prospect which is a requirement for Chychrun. Potential to be a great top 4 dman. Yotes are building for when they have a new rink. Maybe he is ready to for them when the rink is built.
Nuge - 5.125 mill - Roster skate up. Been here for years. Has been a very good player, never great. Would need to wave his no move. Help their PP. This would shake up the leadership big time and signal status quo no longer accepted.
Benson - 750K - B level prospect. Partly for money. Has skill but can't find a role with the Oilers. Maybe being in a low end market like this lets him get top 6 time. If not him, pick another one.
1st round pick.

Cost 9.738

Oilers maybe have to throw in another pick in later rounds.

Lines once healthy:
Kane/Crouse - McD - Hyman/yamo
Kane//Crouse - Leon - Hyman/Yamo
Janmark - Bjuckstad - Foegele
Kostin - McLeod - Ryan/Shore/Malone, Hamilin

Nurse Ceci
Chychrun - Bouchard/Barrie
Kulak /Bouchard/Barrie

Maybe at some point you can swap out Barrie for a better defender.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815043 is a reply to message #815042 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 13:19

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Can’t see Nuge being moved, but I could get past it if we could improve this roster.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815045 is a reply to message #815043 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 13:26

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 13:19

Can’t see Nuge being moved, but I could get past it if we could improve this roster.

I agree. I doubt it happens. Not even sure he would waive but just a slow afternoon spit balling.

I am just of the belief that the core of the team needs to be shook up. The issues they have with the slow starts and poor buy in for defense isn't new. It's been year after year with different coaches. I just don't think swapping out a bottom 6 guy or even bringing in a dman suddenly fixes the teams defense problems because it needs to be a team thing and the top guys have to buy in too.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815044 is a reply to message #815042 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 13:23

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

I really like Crouse. He's the guy I'd be chasing from Arizona. I worry his ticket is too big for this team when he'd have to be a Hyman tier support player, but I really like him. I can't imagine how bad defensively a defense with Bouchard, Barrie, and Chychrun would be. I can barely fathom how bad defensively a defense with Barrie and Bouchard is. I have no strong feelings about Bjugstad.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815046 is a reply to message #815044 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 13:44

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

I worry more about Chychrun than anyone on that though. I just don't think he's worth it at this point. Same for Karlsson. You say offensive dynamo... I say 11 goals this year (very good) 10 last year in 50 games (meh), 8 the previous in 52, 6 the previous in 56, before that 3 then 9. He's just not good enough at this point in his career, as well as he's expensive and old and will command a kings ransom to obtain.

That being said, if any trade actually improves this team that doesn't trade McD or Drai, go for it.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815047 is a reply to message #815046 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 13:49

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 13:44

I worry more about Chychrun than anyone on that though. I just don't think he's worth it at this point. Same for Karlsson. You say offensive dynamo... I say 11 goals this year (very good) 10 last year in 50 games (meh), 8 the previous in 52, 6 the previous in 56, before that 3 then 9. He's just not good enough at this point in his career, as well as he's expensive and old and will command a kings ransom to obtain.

That being said, if any trade actually improves this team that doesn't trade McD or Drai, go for it.

I had Karlsson on my do not draft list this year. I thought he was done as a player. He might be back and maybe him and Burns just didn't work well together, but I'm with you I don't trust him.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815049 is a reply to message #815046 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 14:14

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 13:44

I worry more about Chychrun than anyone on that though. I just don't think he's worth it at this point. Same for Karlsson. You say offensive dynamo... I say 11 goals this year (very good) 10 last year in 50 games (meh), 8 the previous in 52, 6 the previous in 56, before that 3 then 9. He's just not good enough at this point in his career, as well as he's expensive and old and will command a kings ransom to obtain.

That being said, if any trade actually improves this team that doesn't trade McD or Drai, go for it.

Chychrun with his injury history does concern me. He's never had a full year and it seems like when he gets hurt it's major stuff. So if the ask is the 2 firsts and something else that I thought I read, forget it. But on paper, he's exactly what the Oilers could use. Has offense, size, skates well, moves the puck, physical, play 20 mins.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815052 is a reply to message #815049 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 15:06

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

I did read Shattenkirk's name rolling around again. $3.9 mil, plays every game, doesn't score a ton, but he stops teams from scoring.
Shattenkirk for Yamamoto and a sweetener? Or Barrie and and Yamamoto for Shattenkirk and something (balances out salary but Shattenkirk is an RFA, they get 2 young players with contact for another year, we get a d man and there are a couple other pieces they could offer I wouldn't mind bringing over)

[Updated on: Wed, 07 December 2022 15:11]

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815053 is a reply to message #815052 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 15:08

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 15:06

I did read Shattenkirk's name rolling around again. $3.9 mil, plays every game,

Isn't he just an older Barrie?

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815054 is a reply to message #815053 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 15:12

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

no, he's a defensive D man.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815056 is a reply to message #815052 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 15:26

PlusOne
Messages: 1586
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 16:06

I did read Shattenkirk's name rolling around again. $3.9 mil, plays every game, doesn't score a ton, but he stops teams from scoring.
Shattenkirk for Yamamoto and a sweetener? Or Barrie and and Yamamoto for Shattenkirk and something (balances out salary but Shattenkirk is an RFA, they get 2 young players with contact for another year, we get a d man and there are a couple other pieces they could offer I wouldn't mind bringing over)

Kevin Shattenkirk? Do you mean he is a UFA?

If that is the right Shattenkirk I think he is decent defensively but I am concerned with a pay that high for a guy who could skip town at the end of the year.
I am all for a trade and not worried about ditching young forwards to improve the defence but I would hate to see a rental D come in, Oilers don't win the cup, and they are back where they started.

If you can add to your trade and get a younger, good player with some term I would be happier. I dont know if that mythical creature exists but one can dream.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815057 is a reply to message #815056 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 15:31

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Yeah... UFA... it's been a long day.

Every competitive team needs vets to win. Maybe he leaves, maybe he doesn't. If he sticks around, I think our D is better. If he leaves, we find something else to fill the void. Teams that compete for the cup sometimes need to give up some future for today.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815058 is a reply to message #815057 ]	Wed, 07 December 2022 15:41

PlusOne
Messages: 1586
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

Dragon_Matt wrote on Wed, 07 December 2022 16:31

Yeah... UFA... it's been a long day.

Every competitive team needs vets to win. Maybe he leaves, maybe he doesn't. If he sticks around, I think our D is better. If he leaves, we find something else to fill the void. Teams that compete for the cup sometimes need to give up some future for today.

I assumed it was a typo. I was worried I didn't know about a young, stay at home, RFA D that was available and I totally missed out on!
I 100% agree that the time is now. I also wouldnt hate the trade, I would just prefer some more certainty.
We all hear rumors and names floating around but the reality is that the perfect fit at a reasonable price just doesnt exist. Holland needs to figure out what is available and what the asks are and find a piece that makes the team better.
I feel the same about picks as I do about young players. I like the team to have them but at this point they need to start plugging some holes or it will be another season without being a true contender.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815110 is a reply to message #815058 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 09:47

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

I think people overvalue picks.
I'd prefer we trade our picks all away and win a damn cup.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815114 is a reply to message #815110 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 10:03

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

With how the NHL is going and the lower end guys are getting squeezed contract wise, once you get past say the second round, are picks even worth much anymore? In most drafts, there is usually a handful of guys taken late who turn into really good players but generally the majority of players taken in the draft that turn into decent players are taken high. So is it worth keeping those 3rd, 4th, 5th rounders when you can go out and get yourself a Milano who had a PTO with the Flames, didn't make it, then got signed for league min by the Caps. He's no world beater for them but he's been decent.

So take your late picks and trade them to another team who maybe as a former first rounder who didn't pan out, have him signed for league min and roll the dice. Samorukov is a 3rd round pick who they swapped for Kostin who's a former first rounder and so far, the trade looks pretty darn good for the Oilers. They get a guy who looks like he could play in their bottom 6 for a guy who might end up in Russia next year.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815117 is a reply to message #815114 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 10:20

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

a player in the NHL is almost always better than a pick of the unknown. I would still argue that JP is worth more than a 2nd or 3rd. He's a known quantity and a player in the NHL who has strong advanced stats, even if he can't score at this level. You draft 1000 people in the 2nd round, a couple will be better than him. Those aren't great odds.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815121 is a reply to message #815117 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 10:39

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

I would agree with that. I don't have the numbers in front of me but once you get out of the first round, the chances a player makes the NHL drops I think by a fair amount and continues to drop by I believe quite a bit each round you go down.

I thought I heard the ask for JP in the offseason was a 2nd rounder which they couldn't get. I have a hard time believing with how it's gone, they could get anything close to that for JP.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815122 is a reply to message #815121 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 10:42

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

I think it would be a mistake to trade him for just about anything other than a solid top 4 d-man or solid top 6 forward. He's shown over an extended period that he can drive the play in the right direction. Points or not, opponents score less with him on than not, and the play progresses like the ice is tilted in his favor. He doesn't have all the pieces, but not many players do. Even Drai has holes in his game that I'd love to be fixed.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815123 is a reply to message #815122 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 10:53

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 10:42

I think it would be a mistake to trade him for just about anything other than a solid top 4 d-man or solid top 6 forward. He's shown over an extended period that he can drive the play in the right direction. Points or not, opponents score less with him on than not, and the play progresses like the ice is tilted in his favor. He doesn't have all the pieces, but not many players do. Even Drai has holes in his game that I'd love to be fixed.

Are you being serious? They couldn't get a second rounder for him before he was signed, how are they going to get a top 4 dman or a top 6 forward for a guy that makes 3 mill and has 1 goal in 27 games? If you extend it out for the calendar 2022. He has 7 goals, 22 pts in 79 total games since Jan 1, 2022. Who's giving up a top 4 dman or a top 6 forward for him. Turn the trade around. If some team offered JP to the Oilers with the same salary and the same results, which top 6 forward are you giving up from the Oilers to get him? For the record, I don't consider Yamo a solid top 6 forward, he has to consistently produce to be that.

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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815124 is a reply to message #815117 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 10:55

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Thu, 08 December 2022 10:20

a player in the NHL is almost always better than a pick of the unknown. I would still argue that JP is worth more than a 2nd or 3rd. He's a known quantity and a player in the NHL who has strong advanced stats, even if he can't score at this level. You draft 1000 people in the 2nd round, a couple will be better than him. Those aren't great odds.

It becomes a case of relative value, which is why the Oilers should not trade Jesse Puljujarvi.

For other teams, he's really not worth a decent prospect or actual NHL player because it's uncertain what he looks like out of Edmonton. His comments on his confidence level will be a blast of cold air on most GMs who were thinking he'd be easily unlocked once he's out of this market. I could see a team with a strong analytics group seeing him as a really decent gamble because you could bring him in without the expectations that some Oilers fans, unable to forget his draft position, have - so if he became a really effective third liner, that would be a win. Even they, though, are likely to want to get him at a bargain value knowing that A) the market for him will be soft and B) they're dealing with a senile old man who even at his prime sucked at trades. It will be a minor miracle if the Oilers deal Puljujarvi and don't find a way to throw in more - retaining salary or losing a draft pick back.

Meanwhile, while he has struggled to score, Puljujarvi has not been a bad player for us this year. His fancy stats show that generally when he's on the ice, the puck is moving in the right direction. His PDO has been really low, so the luck factor has been all bad. We know he can do more offensively - we've seen it before here. And you can tell that confidence plays a roll because you're seeing a player who doesn't seem to want the puck on his stick. He's almost never carrying it - I can't recall the last time I saw him lead a rush and not just defer to a linemate.

I don't hate playing him down the lineup - he looked good with McLeod earlier in the year, and in his current mental state, he may be over-deferring to his superstar linemates when he's in the top six. But he doesn't look like someone who doesn't belong in an NHL lineup, even as he's struggled, and we just don't have anyone banging down the door to take his spot.

I've seen a few trade suggestions on here and elsewhere that suggest trading him as part of a package for a defenceman. This would be a very Oilers thing to do - blowing a hole in one part of the lineup while trying to patch another hole elsewhere. If a trade doesn't bring back another right wing who is better able to fill the role here, then to toss him in to a trade is just making the team worse. The right side is a sore spot already for the Oilers up front, so you just simply can't make a trade that weakens it further.

And understanding how NHL GMs work and how they likely view Ken Holland, including Puljujarvi in a deal is only likely to have us get LESS in return, as they'll suggest to Holland it's just taking cap space and a benefit to us to move him in the deal (even if he's a piece they want). Including him in a deal for a defenceman might also mean parting with more (even though it shouldn't).

For all those reasons, I don't trade Puljujarvi right now. A 2nd round draft pick doesn't help us and if his replacement isn't immediately coming back, then the Oilers get worse at a position they already suck at. Lose-lose.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: 2022-23 Trade Speculation Thread [message #815126 is a reply to message #815124 ]	Thu, 08 December 2022 11:16

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

Don't forget, Holland will retain 50%. lose-lose and lose.

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