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 Brad Holland Interview (J Gregor, Oilers Nation) [message #811739]
Thu, 08 September 2022 14:36 Go to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
Found this reference over on LT's wepage..
Interesting article.. here's the paragraph I found most interesting..
https://oilersnation.com/2022/09/08/long-read-brad-holland-d iscusses-his-path-to-assistant-gm-analytics-and-more/

Quote:


Gregor: Since you’ve been working for the Oilers, was there a focus on analytics? Was there more of an emphasis on it than people on the outside who were critical of it, or was it an accurate and fair criticism that Edmonton didn’t use analytics enough?

Holland: No, I don’t think that it was an accurate and fair criticism, there was a lot more going on than anyone realized. And that’s a smart thing for any club to do. I think Edmonton was close to the first adopter of sports analytics in hockey. If they were not the first, they were one of the first. I think that the modern analytics community in hockey, the Moneyball moment, I believe originated in Edmonton. I’ve heard enough anecdotal evidence, I wasn’t here, I didn’t know, but there were a few people doing it here kind of, as their side job, they were blogging and maybe some other people from other areas were contributing. But the nexus, I think that’s why our fan base is so passionate about this, because they have been reading about this for a long time. I think that as other teams embraced it and it was very public, for some of the teams, Edmonton just kind of quietly did its own thing.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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 Re: Brad Holland Interview (J Gregor, Oilers Nation) [message #811753 is a reply to message #811739 ]
Thu, 08 September 2022 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
1 Cup
Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 13:36

Found this reference over on LT's wepage..
Interesting article.. here's the paragraph I found most interesting..
https://oilersnation.com/2022/09/08/long-read-brad-holland-d iscusses-his-path-to-assistant-gm-analytics-and-more/

Quote:


Gregor: Since you’ve been working for the Oilers, was there a focus on analytics? Was there more of an emphasis on it than people on the outside who were critical of it, or was it an accurate and fair criticism that Edmonton didn’t use analytics enough?

Holland: No, I don’t think that it was an accurate and fair criticism, there was a lot more going on than anyone realized. And that’s a smart thing for any club to do. I think Edmonton was close to the first adopter of sports analytics in hockey. If they were not the first, they were one of the first. I think that the modern analytics community in hockey, the Moneyball moment, I believe originated in Edmonton. I’ve heard enough anecdotal evidence, I wasn’t here, I didn’t know, but there were a few people doing it here kind of, as their side job, they were blogging and maybe some other people from other areas were contributing. But the nexus, I think that’s why our fan base is so passionate about this, because they have been reading about this for a long time. I think that as other teams embraced it and it was very public, for some of the teams, Edmonton just kind of quietly did its own thing.




That's a bit of a weird response. Yes, hockey analytics in many ways did get it's start in Edmonton and on the Oilogosphere. But it was in response to the total lack of any semblance of a plan or structure by the team. It wasn't driven by the Oilers in any way. If anything it came about because the team was so incompetent. It's not like Steve Tambellini was out there chatting about how much he learned talking to Vic Ferrari.


Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Brad Holland Interview (J Gregor, Oilers Nation) [message #811755 is a reply to message #811753 ]
Thu, 08 September 2022 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10778
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Goose wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 16:09

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 13:36

Found this reference over on LT's wepage..
Interesting article.. here's the paragraph I found most interesting..
https://oilersnation.com/2022/09/08/long-read-brad-holland-d iscusses-his-path-to-assistant-gm-analytics-and-more/

Quote:


Gregor: Since you’ve been working for the Oilers, was there a focus on analytics? Was there more of an emphasis on it than people on the outside who were critical of it, or was it an accurate and fair criticism that Edmonton didn’t use analytics enough?

Holland: No, I don’t think that it was an accurate and fair criticism, there was a lot more going on than anyone realized. And that’s a smart thing for any club to do. I think Edmonton was close to the first adopter of sports analytics in hockey. If they were not the first, they were one of the first. I think that the modern analytics community in hockey, the Moneyball moment, I believe originated in Edmonton. I’ve heard enough anecdotal evidence, I wasn’t here, I didn’t know, but there were a few people doing it here kind of, as their side job, they were blogging and maybe some other people from other areas were contributing. But the nexus, I think that’s why our fan base is so passionate about this, because they have been reading about this for a long time. I think that as other teams embraced it and it was very public, for some of the teams, Edmonton just kind of quietly did its own thing.




That's a bit of a weird response. Yes, hockey analytics in many ways did get it's start in Edmonton and on the Oilogosphere. But it was in response to the total lack of any semblance of a plan or structure by the team. It wasn't driven by the Oilers in any way. If anything it came about because the team was so incompetent. It's not like Steve Tambellini was out there chatting about how much he learned talking to Vic Ferrari.



Refuse to believe a team doing a great job on analytics would give Kassian that 4 year deal.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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 Re: Brad Holland Interview (J Gregor, Oilers Nation) [message #811756 is a reply to message #811755 ]
Thu, 08 September 2022 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
Kr55 wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 16:17

Goose wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 16:09

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 13:36

Found this reference over on LT's wepage..
Interesting article.. here's the paragraph I found most interesting..
https://oilersnation.com/2022/09/08/long-read-brad-holland-d iscusses-his-path-to-assistant-gm-analytics-and-more/

Quote:


Gregor: Since you’ve been working for the Oilers, was there a focus on analytics? Was there more of an emphasis on it than people on the outside who were critical of it, or was it an accurate and fair criticism that Edmonton didn’t use analytics enough?

Holland: No, I don’t think that it was an accurate and fair criticism, there was a lot more going on than anyone realized. And that’s a smart thing for any club to do. I think Edmonton was close to the first adopter of sports analytics in hockey. If they were not the first, they were one of the first. I think that the modern analytics community in hockey, the Moneyball moment, I believe originated in Edmonton. I’ve heard enough anecdotal evidence, I wasn’t here, I didn’t know, but there were a few people doing it here kind of, as their side job, they were blogging and maybe some other people from other areas were contributing. But the nexus, I think that’s why our fan base is so passionate about this, because they have been reading about this for a long time. I think that as other teams embraced it and it was very public, for some of the teams, Edmonton just kind of quietly did its own thing.




That's a bit of a weird response. Yes, hockey analytics in many ways did get it's start in Edmonton and on the Oilogosphere. But it was in response to the total lack of any semblance of a plan or structure by the team. It wasn't driven by the Oilers in any way. If anything it came about because the team was so incompetent. It's not like Steve Tambellini was out there chatting about how much he learned talking to Vic Ferrari.



Refuse to believe a team doing a great job on analytics would give Kassian that 4 year deal.

They use proprietary analytics. Remember when Kris Russell was an NHL leading defenseman in some unspoken category?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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 Re: Brad Holland Interview (J Gregor, Oilers Nation) [message #811757 is a reply to message #811756 ]
Thu, 08 September 2022 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goose is currently offline Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
1 Cup
CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 15:28


They use proprietary analytics. Remember when Kris Russell was an NHL leading defenseman in some unspoken category?


Cowboy ups/60

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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 Re: Brad Holland Interview (J Gregor, Oilers Nation) [message #811775 is a reply to message #811757 ]
Fri, 09 September 2022 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon_Matt is currently offline Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton
No Cups
it wasn't unspoken. it was blocked shots. look at the heat map. just a blazing trail of red into his shin pads.

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 Re: Brad Holland Interview (J Gregor, Oilers Nation) [message #811777 is a reply to message #811756 ]
Fri, 09 September 2022 11:54 Go to previous message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 16:28

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 16:17

Goose wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 16:09

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 08 September 2022 13:36

Found this reference over on LT's wepage..
Interesting article.. here's the paragraph I found most interesting..
https://oilersnation.com/2022/09/08/long-read-brad-holland-d iscusses-his-path-to-assistant-gm-analytics-and-more/

Quote:


Gregor: Since you’ve been working for the Oilers, was there a focus on analytics? Was there more of an emphasis on it than people on the outside who were critical of it, or was it an accurate and fair criticism that Edmonton didn’t use analytics enough?

Holland: No, I don’t think that it was an accurate and fair criticism, there was a lot more going on than anyone realized. And that’s a smart thing for any club to do. I think Edmonton was close to the first adopter of sports analytics in hockey. If they were not the first, they were one of the first. I think that the modern analytics community in hockey, the Moneyball moment, I believe originated in Edmonton. I’ve heard enough anecdotal evidence, I wasn’t here, I didn’t know, but there were a few people doing it here kind of, as their side job, they were blogging and maybe some other people from other areas were contributing. But the nexus, I think that’s why our fan base is so passionate about this, because they have been reading about this for a long time. I think that as other teams embraced it and it was very public, for some of the teams, Edmonton just kind of quietly did its own thing.




That's a bit of a weird response. Yes, hockey analytics in many ways did get it's start in Edmonton and on the Oilogosphere. But it was in response to the total lack of any semblance of a plan or structure by the team. It wasn't driven by the Oilers in any way. If anything it came about because the team was so incompetent. It's not like Steve Tambellini was out there chatting about how much he learned talking to Vic Ferrari.



Refuse to believe a team doing a great job on analytics would give Kassian that 4 year deal.

They use proprietary analytics. Remember when Kris Russell was an NHL leading defenseman in some unspoken category?


And that was just Chiarelli's chosen third party supplier of data.

It is a super-weird comment from Holland and almost seems like he's trying to deflect the question - he mentions Edmonton, which one COULD take to mean the organization, but probably more accurately describes the actual market. His comment about bloggers suggests that really that's how he meant it too - which is dodging Gregor's question.

I think the team has been uneven in their adoption. They hired mudcrutch because Eakins wanted him, but it's unclear he was listened to by anyone else - and I think he's not a perfect person to spearhead your analytics team anyhow because he has his blind spots (Conklin>Brodeur) and he's so cantankerous that he can be a challenging person to deal with. Really bright guy and I think he's probably worth having on your team, but maybe not as the spokesperson and leader for that group. I'm not sure he's deftly and subtly explaining to the Oilers Brass why the analysis he's done is worth understanding and acting on.

Then Chia and his third party analysis, which is again challenging because if it's third party, can someone else just buy the same analysis you're using? And if they're not trying, then why not? This seems better to be an in-house capability than just a consultant you call on projects.

Then the last couple years they made the analytics team the same guy who does the hotel bookings for the team, which sure doesn't look like what an organization who's taking these things seriously does.

I mean, we probably shouldn't be surprised - the team pays huge dollars to execs, but has long pinched pennies with relation to the remainder of the staff. I've known a few people who've worked for the Oilers over the years in various capacities - they are a really frugal organization, who I think has believed that the honour of working for the team that people should be seen as compensation instead of making what they're worth. Remember they fired the players' concierge to save $50K, while you can bet that Lowe, Gretzky, Gretzky, Nicholson and company have all made a mint.

I agree with Brad H. that a team need not brag up what it's doing in analytics, but I think we've seen ample evidence that the management team has not valued them much to this point.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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