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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810190 is a reply to message #810186 ]	Sat, 09 July 2022 15:34

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Sat, 09 July 2022 03:02

Divorces can get expensive, but most marriages work out when you find the right partner.

Hard to see a lot of red flags here. It’s not exactly a Tinder date like we have seen so often in the past.

My general belief is that anyone who's not young, and not in the top half of your roster shouldn't get more than a couple years. Best to keep cap flexibility as much as possible, and those guys are the ones you're most likely to regret if they fall off a cliff. If a name player declines quickly, someone is still going to take a crack at seeing if it's just you, or if he's really done. Look at Turris, he was both traded and then signed as a free agent after he was clearly dwindling.

With someone in the bottom half, you're way more likely to get stuck with him, because they don't have the same name recognition that can help you get out of the mistake.

I also think those guys are less likely to get a long deal from someone else. If you look at Kris Russell as an example, he came to Edmonton after an off-season where he got very little interest and had to sign super late to make sure he had a place to play. The Oilers then rushed to give him a four year deal before he hit free agency then next summer despite that. It's unlikely any other GM was thinking they'd pry him away by giving him a deal anything close to that long, and he was overpaid by at least double for the bulk of his deal - especially in the latter half when he was doing things like lighting up our own goalies in the 2020 playoffs.

I think Kulak is better than Russell, but I don't know what the next couple years brings. I liked Koekkoek in his first half season with the Oilers, and now we have him under contract for next year and no one is even talking about him as being in the mix for a roster spot.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810191 is a reply to message #810190 ]	Sat, 09 July 2022 18:13

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

I feel Kulak is a tweener. He’s not a top pairing, but much better than a 3rd pairing. Couple that with a good playoffs where he showcased himself to the entire league.

I see the urgency to get him under contract, and Al so the need for composure to not jump the gun. If the price point mentioned is correct then I still can’t see much wrong with 4 years, but I understand your perspective. If this was Kulikov and not Kulak, I would 100% agree. Kulak seems to be a lot more well rounded.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810192 is a reply to message #810191 ]	Sun, 10 July 2022 08:27

Burgeoboy
Messages: 33
Registered: July 2006
Location: Burgeo, Newfoundland

No Cups

I don't mind Kulak at 4 X2.5, I just hope he's not penciled in on the second pair, I'd want him on the 3rd pair. with Brogreg as 7tn D man. Depth on d is going to be needed to win a cup, Nurse, Kulak, and Brobreg on the Left side aren't going to cut it. Also, a strong D will make whichever Goalie we are about to overpay look a lot better.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810213 is a reply to message #810192 ]	Mon, 11 July 2022 08:25

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Given the market and how few decent dmen there are available, I think it's a pipe dream that Kulak would take a 2 year deal. If Kulak was well in his 30's then I get it but at 28, a 4 yr deal is not that long and if the AAV is in the 2's that's not that much even if he is in your 3rd pairing.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810215 is a reply to message #802318 ]	Mon, 11 July 2022 08:27

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Actually surprised this didn’t get done over the weekend.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810238 is a reply to message #802318 ]	Mon, 11 July 2022 10:56

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

I don't think the Oilers can pay Brett Kulak $2.5M if the plan is to have him play on the 3rd pair. According to CapFriendly, the 128th defenceman in the league right now makes $1.5M. Maybe you can get away with it for a year if the plan is to have Broberg play a regular role and potentially play above Kulak.

Bouchard is going to be due a significant raise (and I think it would be a mistake to bridge him, they should be working on a long-term deal right now). So unless there is a plan to move Barrie before the start of next year, the Oilers would have 5 defencemen making top 4 money (and with Nurse's deal it's not like it's just a bunch of middle tier salaries).

Chychrun has been reportedly available for a while. I saw rumors over the weekend that Provorov might be available from Philly. If the Oilers don't think that Kulak is a top-4 defenceman, I'd rather they kick the tires on guys like that (with some retention on Provorov), and see if they can't put together a package centering on one of the Oilers defence prospects.

Unrelated, saw this on twitter the other day:

Quote:

Mentions are absolutely full of this. Apparently draft picks can't be traded for good players any more.

Ken Holland turned:

2025 2nd
2024 3rd
2023 4th
2022 4th, 3rd, 2nd
2021 2nd 3rd 5th
2020 2nd 4th

... into air. All he has to show for all those picks is James Neal buyout.

https://twitter.com/Kinger999/status/1545477903206465536?s=2 0&t=8f4pdhavPVuoSRKBwozTGQ

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810242 is a reply to message #810238 ]	Mon, 11 July 2022 11:02

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

and cap space :)

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810243 is a reply to message #810242 ]	Mon, 11 July 2022 11:06

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
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6 Cups

Dragon_Matt wrote on Mon, 11 July 2022 11:02

and cap space :)

Cap Space should be capitalized in this context. Cap Space is a living, breathing entity whereas cap space is an abstract concept. Learn the difference, it could save you.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810246 is a reply to message #810238 ]	Mon, 11 July 2022 11:39

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Goose wrote on Mon, 11 July 2022 10:56

I don't think the Oilers can pay Brett Kulak $2.5M if the plan is to have him play on the 3rd pair. According to CapFriendly, the 128th defenceman in the league right now makes $1.5M. Maybe you can get away with it for a year if the plan is to have Broberg play a regular role and potentially play above Kulak.

Bouchard is going to be due a significant raise (and I think it would be a mistake to bridge him, they should be working on a long-term deal right now). So unless there is a plan to move Barrie before the start of next year, the Oilers would have 5 defencemen making top 4 money (and with Nurse's deal it's not like it's just a bunch of middle tier salaries).

Chychrun has been reportedly available for a while. I saw rumors over the weekend that Provorov might be available from Philly. If the Oilers don't think that Kulak is a top-4 defenceman, I'd rather they kick the tires on guys like that (with some retention on Provorov), and see if they can't put together a package centering on one of the Oilers defence prospects.

Unrelated, saw this on twitter the other day:

Quote:

Mentions are absolutely full of this. Apparently draft picks can't be traded for good players any more.

Ken Holland turned:

2025 2nd
2024 3rd
2023 4th
2022 4th, 3rd, 2nd
2021 2nd 3rd 5th
2020 2nd 4th

... into air. All he has to show for all those picks is James Neal buyout.

https://twitter.com/Kinger999/status/1545477903206465536?s=2 0&t=8f4pdhavPVuoSRKBwozTGQ

To be fair, I think you also have to include Zack Kassian's cap space as part of the return there, but the point remains. Ken Holland isn't actually good at trades, which means managing the cap and making savvy signings becomes extremely important.

I think I could get behind giving a bit of a bigger salary number to Kulak in the short term, because we'll have guys like Broberg at a lower amount during that period, but that's where I struggle with giving a long-term deal. If he's going to spend 75+% of the contract on the third pairing, it's a lot to spend. I think the extra million spent here and there on depth guys is the true "death by 1000 cuts" that the Oilers have suffered over the last several years. Your 3rd and 4th lines and 3rd d-pairing really should be made up of young guys on entry deals and bargain players who contribute more than their salary cap hit. If you have a lot of guys making 2, 3, 4 million back there, then you are challenged to properly flesh out the top half of your roster.

The team is in a unique situation where suddenly a whole lot of mistakes have disappeared. The team has only one or two clear overpays in the bottom half of the roster: Warren Foegele for sure, and debatably Tyson Barrie, although he's more of a specialist so maybe you can wrap your head around that one. Derek Ryan and Devin Shore are the only other remaining bottom six forward under contract and neither is a problematic number. Cody Ceci's contract may be too high in a year or two, but for now, he's playing a top-4 role so it's not terrible. If the Oilers are smart about their money here, then we have enough that we can ice a really competitive team and have room to add. The key is being smart though - so if Kulak wants too much for too long and you see him as a third pairing guy? Then we may need to re-focus and find a better value contract in free agency.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810336 is a reply to message #802318 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 09:56

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

The plot thickens. Kulak to test free agency.

Do both parties circle back to each other later on? Is Holland being cap considerate?

Excited and nervous for the next 6 weeks.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810342 is a reply to message #810336 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 10:15

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 09:56

The plot thickens. Kulak to test free agency.

Do both parties circle back to each other later on? Is Holland being cap considerate?

Excited and nervous for the next 6 weeks.

Such conflicting reports out there.

Internally it’s much the same as with JP. They want Kulak to be paid as 3LD. He and agent see hole at 2LD and feel that’s where he slots in and wants that compensation. Kulak wants to remain in Edmonton. But they are using the tactic of going to market.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
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Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810344 is a reply to message #810342 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 10:23

Rocksteady
Messages: 527
Registered: March 2007

No Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 10:15

Such conflicting reports out there.

Internally it’s much the same as with JP. They want Kulak to be paid as 3LD. He and agent see hole at 2LD and feel that’s where he slots in and wants that compensation. Kulak wants to remain in Edmonton. But they are using the tactic of going to market.

It's part of the game, shake the piggy bank to see what falls out. I'd like Kulak to be part of this team, and if he's playing as a 60% of the time 2LD he should be compensated as such. I think Kulak knows he's a 3LD, but knows the Oilers will play him up the line a few times more than expected. So I see this as completely valid to say he'll test the market.

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810347 is a reply to message #810344 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 10:40

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

He's compentant and showed in the playoffs that he can play decently against any level of opponent. By no stretch was he our defensive weakness.
I could see him getting a 3x4 or even 4x4 offer from someone.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810348 is a reply to message #810344 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 11:18

PlusOne
Messages: 1594
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 10:23

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 10:15

Such conflicting reports out there.

Internally it’s much the same as with JP. They want Kulak to be paid as 3LD. He and agent see hole at 2LD and feel that’s where he slots in and wants that compensation. Kulak wants to remain in Edmonton. But they are using the tactic of going to market.

It's part of the game, shake the piggy bank to see what falls out. I'd like Kulak to be part of this team, and if he's playing as a 60% of the time 2LD he should be compensated as such. I think Kulak knows he's a 3LD, but knows the Oilers will play him up the line a few times more than expected. So I see this as completely valid to say he'll test the market.

The only thing I disagree with here is the part about "if he is playing 2LD he should be paid like one"
Players should be paid on a mix of ability and future expectations. A teams lack of talent above them in the depth chart shouldn't get the player a higher salary.
If the Oilers think he can be a full time, capable, 2LD for the length of the deal he should be paid like one. If his talent is 3LD (my place for him) then thay should be the offer. If he doesn't like it then you let him walk, no hard feelings.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 30 January 2020 12:21

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810350 is a reply to message #810348 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 12:30

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 11:18

Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 10:23

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 10:15

Such conflicting reports out there.

Internally it’s much the same as with JP. They want Kulak to be paid as 3LD. He and agent see hole at 2LD and feel that’s where he slots in and wants that compensation. Kulak wants to remain in Edmonton. But they are using the tactic of going to market.

It's part of the game, shake the piggy bank to see what falls out. I'd like Kulak to be part of this team, and if he's playing as a 60% of the time 2LD he should be compensated as such. I think Kulak knows he's a 3LD, but knows the Oilers will play him up the line a few times more than expected. So I see this as completely valid to say he'll test the market.

The only thing I disagree with here is the part about "if he is playing 2LD he should be paid like one"
Players should be paid on a mix of ability and future expectations. A teams lack of talent above them in the depth chart shouldn't get the player a higher salary.
If the Oilers think he can be a full time, capable, 2LD for the length of the deal he should be paid like one. If his talent is 3LD (my place for him) then thay should be the offer. If he doesn't like it then you let him walk, no hard feelings.

Kulak leaving after Keith means the D is either thin or young. Or both. Need somebody back there, although maybe Nurse will play 45 minutes. That would justify the salary.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810356 is a reply to message #810350 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 13:40

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 11:30

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 11:18

Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 10:23

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 10:15

Such conflicting reports out there.

Internally it’s much the same as with JP. They want Kulak to be paid as 3LD. He and agent see hole at 2LD and feel that’s where he slots in and wants that compensation. Kulak wants to remain in Edmonton. But they are using the tactic of going to market.

It's part of the game, shake the piggy bank to see what falls out. I'd like Kulak to be part of this team, and if he's playing as a 60% of the time 2LD he should be compensated as such. I think Kulak knows he's a 3LD, but knows the Oilers will play him up the line a few times more than expected. So I see this as completely valid to say he'll test the market.

The only thing I disagree with here is the part about "if he is playing 2LD he should be paid like one"
Players should be paid on a mix of ability and future expectations. A teams lack of talent above them in the depth chart shouldn't get the player a higher salary.
If the Oilers think he can be a full time, capable, 2LD for the length of the deal he should be paid like one. If his talent is 3LD (my place for him) then thay should be the offer. If he doesn't like it then you let him walk, no hard feelings.

Kulak leaving after Keith means the D is either thin or young. Or both. Need somebody back there, although maybe Nurse will play 45 minutes. That would justify the salary.

Wish Chychrun was a target...

Clean house or bust

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810360 is a reply to message #810356 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 15:40

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 16:40

Wish Chychrun was a target...

What would cost be for him? Pick and a prospect or something like that?

$4.6 per for 3 more years? Think that would be awesome.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810361 is a reply to message #810360 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 15:55

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Mike wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 14:40

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 16:40

Wish Chychrun was a target...

What would cost be for him? Pick and a prospect or something like that?

$4.6 per for 3 more years? Think that would be awesome.

I would pay quite a bit for Chychrun. That contract is a gem.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810369 is a reply to message #810361 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 17:34

clutchlikeeberle
Messages: 252
Registered: April 2012

No Cups

Can we convince coytoes do a 1 for 1 of chychrun for nurse?

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810373 is a reply to message #810369 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 18:41

inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 17:34

Can we convince coytoes do a 1 for 1 of chychrun for nurse?

Probably a better chance you buy a orange Nurse jersey.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810374 is a reply to message #810360 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 18:49

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Mike wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 14:40

smyth260 wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 16:40

Wish Chychrun was a target...

What would cost be for him? Pick and a prospect or something like that?

$4.6 per for 3 more years? Think that would be awesome.

Arizona's GM, Bill Armstrong, was asking for 3 top assets (like 2 x 1sts + top prospect?) during the trade deadline.. the GM is new.. IMHO he's trying to win every trade by an embarrassing margin.. he's got nothing to lose right now because his leash is at least 3 years long.. not forced to ice a winning team.. can just compile future assets without immediate repercussions.. He's the guy that made his entire staff wear bright blue suits and red ties for the draft.. big on image.. ego?.. he's not going to do a trade where he doesn't take someone to the wood shed.. don't think he's a good trade partner.. unless you are desperate.

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810377 is a reply to message #810350 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 19:17

PlusOne
Messages: 1594
Registered: July 2006
Location: Regina, Sask

1 Cup

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 12:30

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 11:18

Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 10:23

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 10:15

Such conflicting reports out there.

Internally it’s much the same as with JP. They want Kulak to be paid as 3LD. He and agent see hole at 2LD and feel that’s where he slots in and wants that compensation. Kulak wants to remain in Edmonton. But they are using the tactic of going to market.

It's part of the game, shake the piggy bank to see what falls out. I'd like Kulak to be part of this team, and if he's playing as a 60% of the time 2LD he should be compensated as such. I think Kulak knows he's a 3LD, but knows the Oilers will play him up the line a few times more than expected. So I see this as completely valid to say he'll test the market.

The only thing I disagree with here is the part about "if he is playing 2LD he should be paid like one"
Players should be paid on a mix of ability and future expectations. A teams lack of talent above them in the depth chart shouldn't get the player a higher salary.
If the Oilers think he can be a full time, capable, 2LD for the length of the deal he should be paid like one. If his talent is 3LD (my place for him) then thay should be the offer. If he doesn't like it then you let him walk, no hard feelings.

Kulak leaving after Keith means the D is either thin or young. Or both. Need somebody back there, although maybe Nurse will play 45 minutes. That would justify the salary.

I totally agree about being thin. I just dont think it justifies overpaying a player because the team didn't fill spots in front of him.
Same as I wouldnt expect RNH to take a 3mill per year 3C salary because he is behind McDavid and Drai on the depth chart.

Survivor LX(I) and 67 Champ(i)on

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Re: Oilers acquire Brett Kulak [message #810397 is a reply to message #810377 ]	Tue, 12 July 2022 22:51

Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 19:17

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 12:30

PlusOne wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 11:18

Rocksteady wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 10:23

Oscargasm wrote on Tue, 12 July 2022 10:15

Such conflicting reports out there.

Internally it’s much the same as with JP. They want Kulak to be paid as 3LD. He and agent see hole at 2LD and feel that’s where he slots in and wants that compensation. Kulak wants to remain in Edmonton. But they are using the tactic of going to market.

It's part of the game, shake the piggy bank to see what falls out. I'd like Kulak to be part of this team, and if he's playing as a 60% of the time 2LD he should be compensated as such. I think Kulak knows he's a 3LD, but knows the Oilers will play him up the line a few times more than expected. So I see this as completely valid to say he'll test the market.

The only thing I disagree with here is the part about "if he is playing 2LD he should be paid like one"
Players should be paid on a mix of ability and future expectations. A teams lack of talent above them in the depth chart shouldn't get the player a higher salary.
If the Oilers think he can be a full time, capable, 2LD for the length of the deal he should be paid like one. If his talent is 3LD (my place for him) then thay should be the offer. If he doesn't like it then you let him walk, no hard feelings.

Kulak leaving after Keith means the D is either thin or young. Or both. Need somebody back there, although maybe Nurse will play 45 minutes. That would justify the salary.

I totally agree about being thin. I just dont think it justifies overpaying a player because the team didn't fill spots in front of him.
Same as I wouldnt expect RNH to take a 3mill per year 3C salary because he is behind McDavid and Drai on the depth chart.

And we've made those mistakes in the past - you overpay for a guy now to fill a role, and then in two years he's borderline to stay in the lineup and the team struggles to find a way to unload him.

I would pay Kulak more to sign a shorter deal, giving us more flexibility. If we love him, and he loves it here, you can always re-up him. Did anyone think Kris Russell was going to end up signing three different contracts in Edmonton? He was almost UFA twice and the Oilers re-inked him to get him to stay.

Sounds like he's testing the market though, so he may be long gone this time tomorrow and all this is moot.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
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