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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781031 is a reply to message #781028 ]	Fri, 26 March 2021 09:03

inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 08:38

I am happy that it was successful for him personally but what does that mean exactly? He can work towards being back all he wants, doesn't mean it will happen. If he does come back, how will be be? Will he be back to his old self and able to play like he did for his 1 and only full season or will he's been normally which is pretty good for a while but eventually he will miss 15-20 games.

There are a TON of questions marks with this guy and unless they can get a 100% guarantee it's fixed forever, I wouldn't protect him even if he can play to some degree. I would not be willing and I think it would be foolish to lose a younger dman who you can have for maybe the next decade, all to protect a guy who sure he's good when totally healthy but all it will take is 1 bump the wrong way and he is probably retiring. It's one thing to get the shoulder fixed and be capable to live a normal life like most people do, it's another to be a pro hockey player getting rammed into the boards on that shoulder dozens of times a game. When Klefbom did his presser way back in the fall, he was all about life and wanting to just live without pain, be able to sleep at night without pain, hold a kid one day. Hockey was way down on the list. So if it was me and I know it would be hard to do but the first sign of pain or potential problems, I am done.

So unless you know 100% for certain, he's fixed forever, the risk at protecting him is too big.

Well he’s gone then. No surgery is guaranteed 100%.

Leave this to the medical staff and doctors. If Holland protects Klefbom it won’t be through uncertainty. Having the option of protecting Klefbom is a good thing.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781036 is a reply to message #781031 ]	Fri, 26 March 2021 09:37

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

inverno76 wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:03

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 08:38

I am happy that it was successful for him personally but what does that mean exactly? He can work towards being back all he wants, doesn't mean it will happen. If he does come back, how will be be? Will he be back to his old self and able to play like he did for his 1 and only full season or will he's been normally which is pretty good for a while but eventually he will miss 15-20 games.

There are a TON of questions marks with this guy and unless they can get a 100% guarantee it's fixed forever, I wouldn't protect him even if he can play to some degree. I would not be willing and I think it would be foolish to lose a younger dman who you can have for maybe the next decade, all to protect a guy who sure he's good when totally healthy but all it will take is 1 bump the wrong way and he is probably retiring. It's one thing to get the shoulder fixed and be capable to live a normal life like most people do, it's another to be a pro hockey player getting rammed into the boards on that shoulder dozens of times a game. When Klefbom did his presser way back in the fall, he was all about life and wanting to just live without pain, be able to sleep at night without pain, hold a kid one day. Hockey was way down on the list. So if it was me and I know it would be hard to do but the first sign of pain or potential problems, I am done.

So unless you know 100% for certain, he's fixed forever, the risk at protecting him is too big.

Well he’s gone then. No surgery is guaranteed 100%.

Leave this to the medical staff and doctors. If Holland protects Klefbom it won’t be through uncertainty. Having the option of protecting Klefbom is a good thing.

I actually think it's not a good thing that there is the potential option to have to protect him. This isn't going to be a question of deciding as a team who you think is better now and in the future for your team, this is all about trying to guess if Klefbom will play, how well will he play and for how long. If they protect Klefbom and then lose one of Jones or Laggesson, based on what we have seen to date, it's highly likely that both Jones and Laggesson will be NHL dmen for the next maybe 10 years. They may not end up being as good as Klefbom when he was healthy but they both look like they can play for a long time.

Teams know what shoulder has had problems so it's a given guys will target it. Maybe not to hurt him but to try to get an advantage if any. Given all the trouble he has had with that shoulder, what's the likelihood that he won't play hesitant to some degree to protect it? He's human, how can he not. I would. Klefbom might play and be fine, he might play and be a shadow of himself, he might start camp, play a few preseason games, take a shot, feel something and decide he's done. He might play part of the season, with wear and tear on it every second night that is pretty normal, he might feel something, not want to chance it and call it done. So there is a very real chance the Oilers could end up losing 2 guys if they protect Klefbom.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781033 is a reply to message #781017 ]	Fri, 26 March 2021 09:33

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:35

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:14

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oscar Klefbom’s shoulder surgery, performed by orthopaedic specialist Dr. Anthony Miniaci today at the Cleveland Clinic, was successful.
He will begin an extensive rehab process with the goal of being ready by October. With some luck, in time for the '21-'22 season.

So yeah, guess he needs to be protected

And definitely very-Oilers to give such a rosy prognosis. They should be running the narrative "it will be a long and hard journey back to the NHL, with no guarantees he will ever be the same again."

Because they probably shouldn't be protecting him at this point, but you're still hoping he passes through unclaimed.

Yep - would have been better if they weren't as cheerful about this.

In the end, we're going to lose someone to Seattle no matter what, but it would be better if it was not an impactful player.

If I'm Seattle and Klefbom's available, I was probably already taking him - I'm going to have more NHL players than I can handle, so may as well swing for the fences on a couple riskier picks - however this would make me even more tilted towards taking him.

It also is the kind of messaging that makes it pretty difficult to get the exemption for Klefbom from the NHL.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781035 is a reply to message #781033 ]	Fri, 26 March 2021 09:35

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:33

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:35

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:14

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oscar Klefbom’s shoulder surgery, performed by orthopaedic specialist Dr. Anthony Miniaci today at the Cleveland Clinic, was successful.
He will begin an extensive rehab process with the goal of being ready by October. With some luck, in time for the '21-'22 season.

So yeah, guess he needs to be protected

And definitely very-Oilers to give such a rosy prognosis. They should be running the narrative "it will be a long and hard journey back to the NHL, with no guarantees he will ever be the same again."

Because they probably shouldn't be protecting him at this point, but you're still hoping he passes through unclaimed.

Yep - would have been better if they weren't as cheerful about this.

In the end, we're going to lose someone to Seattle no matter what, but it would be better if it was not an impactful player.

If I'm Seattle and Klefbom's available, I was probably already taking him - I'm going to have more NHL players than I can handle, so may as well swing for the fences on a couple riskier picks - however this would make me even more tilted towards taking him.

It also is the kind of messaging that makes it pretty difficult to get the exemption for Klefbom from the NHL.

At least you know what you're getting with Oilers management. I wish I could play poker against them.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781039 is a reply to message #781035 ]	Fri, 26 March 2021 09:57

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:35

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:33

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:35

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:14

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oscar Klefbom’s shoulder surgery, performed by orthopaedic specialist Dr. Anthony Miniaci today at the Cleveland Clinic, was successful.
He will begin an extensive rehab process with the goal of being ready by October. With some luck, in time for the '21-'22 season.

So yeah, guess he needs to be protected

And definitely very-Oilers to give such a rosy prognosis. They should be running the narrative "it will be a long and hard journey back to the NHL, with no guarantees he will ever be the same again."

Because they probably shouldn't be protecting him at this point, but you're still hoping he passes through unclaimed.

Yep - would have been better if they weren't as cheerful about this.

In the end, we're going to lose someone to Seattle no matter what, but it would be better if it was not an impactful player.

If I'm Seattle and Klefbom's available, I was probably already taking him - I'm going to have more NHL players than I can handle, so may as well swing for the fences on a couple riskier picks - however this would make me even more tilted towards taking him.

It also is the kind of messaging that makes it pretty difficult to get the exemption for Klefbom from the NHL.

At least you know what you're getting with Oilers management. I wish I could play poker against them.

This is probably why they generally do so poorly in trades. "Do you want this prospect? Some of our coaches who are working with him say he's uncoachable, and our scouts think he's a longshot to ever make the league but you know he scored a lot in junior so what do you say?"

To be fair, they expect the same transparency out of other team's management too - "Say, how IS Keith Gretzky doing as a GM? And what do you think we should keep in mind as we look for our new GM - got any candidates in mind?"

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781042 is a reply to message #781039 ]	Fri, 26 March 2021 09:59

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:57

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:35

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:33

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:35

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:14

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oscar Klefbom’s shoulder surgery, performed by orthopaedic specialist Dr. Anthony Miniaci today at the Cleveland Clinic, was successful.
He will begin an extensive rehab process with the goal of being ready by October. With some luck, in time for the '21-'22 season.

So yeah, guess he needs to be protected

And definitely very-Oilers to give such a rosy prognosis. They should be running the narrative "it will be a long and hard journey back to the NHL, with no guarantees he will ever be the same again."

Because they probably shouldn't be protecting him at this point, but you're still hoping he passes through unclaimed.

Yep - would have been better if they weren't as cheerful about this.

In the end, we're going to lose someone to Seattle no matter what, but it would be better if it was not an impactful player.

If I'm Seattle and Klefbom's available, I was probably already taking him - I'm going to have more NHL players than I can handle, so may as well swing for the fences on a couple riskier picks - however this would make me even more tilted towards taking him.

It also is the kind of messaging that makes it pretty difficult to get the exemption for Klefbom from the NHL.

At least you know what you're getting with Oilers management. I wish I could play poker against them.

This is probably why they generally do so poorly in trades. "Do you want this prospect? Some of our coaches who are working with him say he's uncoachable, and our scouts think he's a longshot to ever make the league but you know he scored a lot in junior so what do you say?"

To be fair, they expect the same transparency out of other team's management too - "Say, how IS Keith Gretzky doing as a GM? And what do you think we should keep in mind as we look for our new GM - got any candidates in mind?"

Name a better GM in Oilers history though:

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/Keith_G retzky/294

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781052 is a reply to message #781042 ]	Fri, 26 March 2021 12:22

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

I'd say he made two base hits.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781054 is a reply to message #781042 ]	Fri, 26 March 2021 12:24

Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:57

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:35

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:33

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:35

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:14

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oscar Klefbom’s shoulder surgery, performed by orthopaedic specialist Dr. Anthony Miniaci today at the Cleveland Clinic, was successful.
He will begin an extensive rehab process with the goal of being ready by October. With some luck, in time for the '21-'22 season.

So yeah, guess he needs to be protected

And definitely very-Oilers to give such a rosy prognosis. They should be running the narrative "it will be a long and hard journey back to the NHL, with no guarantees he will ever be the same again."

Because they probably shouldn't be protecting him at this point, but you're still hoping he passes through unclaimed.

Yep - would have been better if they weren't as cheerful about this.

In the end, we're going to lose someone to Seattle no matter what, but it would be better if it was not an impactful player.

If I'm Seattle and Klefbom's available, I was probably already taking him - I'm going to have more NHL players than I can handle, so may as well swing for the fences on a couple riskier picks - however this would make me even more tilted towards taking him.

It also is the kind of messaging that makes it pretty difficult to get the exemption for Klefbom from the NHL.

At least you know what you're getting with Oilers management. I wish I could play poker against them.

This is probably why they generally do so poorly in trades. "Do you want this prospect? Some of our coaches who are working with him say he's uncoachable, and our scouts think he's a longshot to ever make the league but you know he scored a lot in junior so what do you say?"

To be fair, they expect the same transparency out of other team's management too - "Say, how IS Keith Gretzky doing as a GM? And what do you think we should keep in mind as we look for our new GM - got any candidates in mind?"

Name a better GM in Oilers history though:

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/Keith_G retzky/294

Win one, lose one. You're right - that does sound way above average for Oilers GMs post-Sather.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781070 is a reply to message #781054 ]	Fri, 26 March 2021 16:16

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 12:24

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:59

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:57

CrudeRemarks wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:35

Adam wrote on Fri, 26 March 2021 09:33

mightyreasoner wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:35

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 25 March 2021 22:14

Mark Spector @SportsnetSpec
Oscar Klefbom’s shoulder surgery, performed by orthopaedic specialist Dr. Anthony Miniaci today at the Cleveland Clinic, was successful.
He will begin an extensive rehab process with the goal of being ready by October. With some luck, in time for the '21-'22 season.

So yeah, guess he needs to be protected

And definitely very-Oilers to give such a rosy prognosis. They should be running the narrative "it will be a long and hard journey back to the NHL, with no guarantees he will ever be the same again."

Because they probably shouldn't be protecting him at this point, but you're still hoping he passes through unclaimed.

Yep - would have been better if they weren't as cheerful about this.

In the end, we're going to lose someone to Seattle no matter what, but it would be better if it was not an impactful player.

If I'm Seattle and Klefbom's available, I was probably already taking him - I'm going to have more NHL players than I can handle, so may as well swing for the fences on a couple riskier picks - however this would make me even more tilted towards taking him.

It also is the kind of messaging that makes it pretty difficult to get the exemption for Klefbom from the NHL.

At least you know what you're getting with Oilers management. I wish I could play poker against them.

This is probably why they generally do so poorly in trades. "Do you want this prospect? Some of our coaches who are working with him say he's uncoachable, and our scouts think he's a longshot to ever make the league but you know he scored a lot in junior so what do you say?"

To be fair, they expect the same transparency out of other team's management too - "Say, how IS Keith Gretzky doing as a GM? And what do you think we should keep in mind as we look for our new GM - got any candidates in mind?"

Name a better GM in Oilers history though:

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/Keith_G retzky/294

Win one, lose one. You're right - that does sound way above average for Oilers GMs post-Sather.

Kevyn Adams officially leaves Keith in the dust. Until his next trade at least.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #781114 is a reply to message #781070 ]	Sat, 27 March 2021 16:58

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Maybe we’re looking at the Klefbom thing wrong. Maybe his surgery went fine but they know he’ll never be a top defenseman again and are baiting the Kraken into taking a problem?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #794205 is a reply to message #781114 ]	Wed, 10 November 2021 14:20

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

So any news on Klefbom? Is he done forever? Is he gonna Kucherov for us? 3rd pairing of Klefbom-Barrie wouldn't be bad for the playoffs if he wasn't too rusty.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #794206 is a reply to message #794205 ]	Wed, 10 November 2021 15:48

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Mike wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 14:20

So any news on Klefbom? Is he done forever? Is he gonna Kucherov for us? 3rd pairing of Klefbom-Barrie wouldn't be bad for the playoffs if he wasn't too rusty.

Haven't heard anything recent, but you have to assume he's not returning. Missing two full years, without much of an update, suggests a very long recovery period or a lack of progress. Looking back, the last time he played a full season was the Kesler/Talbot pad grab playoff year. I don't really see a future where he comes back as the player that we remember.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #794208 is a reply to message #794206 ]	Wed, 10 November 2021 16:03

jds308
Messages: 119
Registered: September 2007
Location: Summerland

No Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 14:48

Mike wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 14:20

So any news on Klefbom? Is he done forever? Is he gonna Kucherov for us? 3rd pairing of Klefbom-Barrie wouldn't be bad for the playoffs if he wasn't too rusty.

Haven't heard anything recent, but you have to assume he's not returning. Missing two full years, without much of an update, suggests a very long recovery period or a lack of progress. Looking back, the last time he played a full season was the Kesler/Talbot pad grab playoff year. I don't really see a future where he comes back as the player that we remember.

Stauffer keeps hinting that he's done, but who knows. I think Klef even at 75% in the bottom pair would be a decent add late in the season. Is that an upgrade over KK, or Russell? Probably.

I make music:
Undermaker442

308 Media Group

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #794211 is a reply to message #794208 ]	Wed, 10 November 2021 16:25

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

jds308 wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 16:03

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 14:48

Mike wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 14:20

So any news on Klefbom? Is he done forever? Is he gonna Kucherov for us? 3rd pairing of Klefbom-Barrie wouldn't be bad for the playoffs if he wasn't too rusty.

Haven't heard anything recent, but you have to assume he's not returning. Missing two full years, without much of an update, suggests a very long recovery period or a lack of progress. Looking back, the last time he played a full season was the Kesler/Talbot pad grab playoff year. I don't really see a future where he comes back as the player that we remember.

Stauffer keeps hinting that he's done, but who knows. I think Klef even at 75% in the bottom pair would be a decent add late in the season. Is that an upgrade over KK, or Russell? Probably.

Stauffer is the mouth peice of the team. He tells the fans what the team wants them to hear. If there is a trade or signing coming, he starts out of no where talking about player ex then talking about all that he does well. So if Stauffer is saying he's done, that to me says the team knows he's done.

Klefbom hasn't talked to the media in awhile but when he did, he mostly talked about life stuff. Being able to sleep comfortably, lifting his arms up with no pain, maybe on day holding a kid. Hockey seemed to be way, way, way down on that list. I said it before, when an athlete gets hurts usually they are all about I'm getting this surgery and then I am doing this rehab and here is my goal to return. Its all laser focused on getting back and playing as fast as they can. You don't hear them talking about the stuff Klefbom was talking about thinking about what his life will be like in 5 yrs or whatever.

So I'd be stunned if he ever plays hockey again in the NHL. Even if he gets back to the 75% you mentioned, I'd be stunned if he came back to play unless he was 100% and there was absolutely zero risk. I don't think he wants to chance reaggervating it what so ever. He's done.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 November 2021 16:27]

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #794212 is a reply to message #794211 ]	Wed, 10 November 2021 17:25

jds308
Messages: 119
Registered: September 2007
Location: Summerland

No Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 15:25

jds308 wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 16:03

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 14:48

Mike wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 14:20

So any news on Klefbom? Is he done forever? Is he gonna Kucherov for us? 3rd pairing of Klefbom-Barrie wouldn't be bad for the playoffs if he wasn't too rusty.

Haven't heard anything recent, but you have to assume he's not returning. Missing two full years, without much of an update, suggests a very long recovery period or a lack of progress. Looking back, the last time he played a full season was the Kesler/Talbot pad grab playoff year. I don't really see a future where he comes back as the player that we remember.

Stauffer keeps hinting that he's done, but who knows. I think Klef even at 75% in the bottom pair would be a decent add late in the season. Is that an upgrade over KK, or Russell? Probably.

Stauffer is the mouth peice of the team. He tells the fans what the team wants them to hear. If there is a trade or signing coming, he starts out of no where talking about player ex then talking about all that he does well. So if Stauffer is saying he's done, that to me says the team knows he's done.

Klefbom hasn't talked to the media in awhile but when he did, he mostly talked about life stuff. Being able to sleep comfortably, lifting his arms up with no pain, maybe on day holding a kid. Hockey seemed to be way, way, way down on that list. I said it before, when an athlete gets hurts usually they are all about I'm getting this surgery and then I am doing this rehab and here is my goal to return. Its all laser focused on getting back and playing as fast as they can. You don't hear them talking about the stuff Klefbom was talking about thinking about what his life will be like in 5 yrs or whatever.

So I'd be stunned if he ever plays hockey again in the NHL. Even if he gets back to the 75% you mentioned, I'd be stunned if he came back to play unless he was 100% and there was absolutely zero risk. I don't think he wants to chance reaggervating it what so ever. He's done.

Stauffer is the mouthpeice for the organization yes, but he also conveys the message of the week. 2 years ago, there was absolutely no chance of a JP return according to him, if I recall correctly. Point is, things change. He tells us what they want us to know today. Either way, it would be a cool story if he could return at some point.

I make music:
Undermaker442

308 Media Group

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Re: Klefbom considering Injury Options [message #794213 is a reply to message #794208 ]	Wed, 10 November 2021 17:41

Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

jds308 wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 16:03

CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 14:48

Mike wrote on Wed, 10 November 2021 14:20

So any news on Klefbom? Is he done forever? Is he gonna Kucherov for us? 3rd pairing of Klefbom-Barrie wouldn't be bad for the playoffs if he wasn't too rusty.

Haven't heard anything recent, but you have to assume he's not returning. Missing two full years, without much of an update, suggests a very long recovery period or a lack of progress. Looking back, the last time he played a full season was the Kesler/Talbot pad grab playoff year. I don't really see a future where he comes back as the player that we remember.

Stauffer keeps hinting that he's done, but who knows. I think Klef even at 75% in the bottom pair would be a decent add late in the season. Is that an upgrade over KK, or Russell? Probably.

Klef can be our guy that comes back for game 1 of the playoffs every year like kucherov. Start training with the team in Feb

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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