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Oilers » Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5)

Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793411]	Fri, 22 October 2021 22:30

OilFans
Messages: 1558
Registered: February 2006
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

3 Final

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793416 is a reply to message #793411 ]	Fri, 22 October 2021 22:46

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Hey 5-0 is pretty alright

Koskinen being 3-0 is… weird.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793417 is a reply to message #793411 ]	Fri, 22 October 2021 22:47

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

Pretty darn great road game.

Yamo showed up. 3rd line continued to dominate. Duncs continues to make me look good. 😁

The Zack’s have been so good.

This team has me feeling something.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793418 is a reply to message #793411 ]	Fri, 22 October 2021 22:48

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

This Hyman dude has some finish in him. Hope he keeps it up. Didn't think he was much of a finisher, but maybe that had more to do with Matthews being a crappy playmaker and puck hog icon_wink

Been whining since the McLellan days, but seriously, I like this team much better with McDrai separated. McDAvid does not need Drai 5v5. Maybe Drai has needed McDavid, but that has to stop and we absolutely must let Drai find chemistry with 2 wingers this season before playoffs. There is no cup hope for this team until that is figured out.

[Updated on: Fri, 22 October 2021 22:50]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793419 is a reply to message #793417 ]	Fri, 22 October 2021 22:50

watchman
Messages: 1412
Registered: October 2019
Location: River City

1 Cup

...having a real 3rd line is such a difference maker.

...good game boys. Days off now... well deserved. Wave Towel

...this time, it's for real (isn't it?).

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793420 is a reply to message #793419 ]	Fri, 22 October 2021 22:52

Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG

5 Cups

watchman wrote on Fri, 22 October 2021 22:50

...having a real 3rd line is such a difference maker.

...good game boys. Days off now... well deserved. Wave Towel

Days off in Vegas. Golfing. Taking in the Raiders - Eagles Sunday. Pretty great team bonding going down these next few days

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793421 is a reply to message #793418 ]	Fri, 22 October 2021 22:54

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Kr55 wrote on Fri, 22 October 2021 22:48

This Hyman dude has some finish in him. Hope he keeps it up. Didn't think he was much of a finisher, but maybe that had more to do with Matthews being a crappy playmaker and puck hog icon_wink

This! The team is more dangerous if teams have to try to find a way to defend McDavid and Draisaitl on separate lines. I'm not convinced that Tippett is sold yet though - it is conspicuous that the media was talking up how Babcock used to play Datsyuk and Zetterberg together at home...I could see Tippett paying homage. We'll see what happens when they next play at home.

Very nice to see 5-0-0 with only a single point surrendered so far.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793426 is a reply to message #793421 ]	Fri, 22 October 2021 23:15

Leia
Messages: 410
Registered: May 2003
Location: England

No Cups

Considering how slugish we looked after the opening face off, we managed to find our feet after going a goal down rather quickly.

It's been a while since I can recall seeing so much of our 3rd and 4th lines in two games like we've had these past couple of nights. Even switching the 4th up tonight didn't effect it.

It was well worth getting up in the middle of the night to watch once more

Take me home, country road
to the place where I belong
to Alberta, to see the Oilers
take me home, country road

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793429 is a reply to message #793411 ]	Fri, 22 October 2021 23:23

inverno76
Messages: 2342
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

5-0. Building a cushion and driving fans of other Canadian teams into a frenzy. Absolutely love it.

These slow starts will catch up to us, but we are self-correcting faster and faster.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793430 is a reply to message #793429 ]	Sat, 23 October 2021 06:46

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

5-0 is awesome. Koskinen won’t steal us many games, but if he can maintain steady play like he has so far, we might be ok.

I know it’s only 5 games, but have we had a better UFA signing than Hyman the last 15 years? I was wrong about him. He’s awesome. Most surprised with his hands. Watched a few leafs games and I think I saw him worse than he was. Or maybe I didn’t pay much attention. But if he continues like this he will easily outperform his contract for at least 3-4 years, and honestly I can see this deal being right until the end.

Kassian making a positive difference. Refs seem to have it out for him as he gets such chintzy calls against him all the time, but whatever. He’s expensive, but if this is the guy that will show up, I’m keeping him. Loving that 3rd line.

Easily Yamomoto’s best game of the year, maybe even the last 2 seasons. Would be a boon for the team if he could find that mojo from a couple years ago again.

That should be Russell’s last game in an Oilers uniform. I can’t imagine any of Broberg, Samorukov, or even Lagesson being any worse. He’s done. That pairing (Russell-Barrie) was hot garbage. I never want to see that again.

I don’t hate Barrie, and I actually think his contract was pretty good considering he was the top scoring Dman last year, but why oh why did they not audition Bouchard last year? I suppose worst case we’ve got a solid trade chip at some point, but seeing him supplanted not even 5 games in is an indictment on Tippett’s choices last year IMO.

Keith and Ceci doing well I think. Not world beaters, but more than holding their own I think. Loved that laser to Kassian for the go ahead goal.

Anyway, 5-0 start and 13 McPoints already. I’m loving it.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793431 is a reply to message #793420 ]	Sat, 23 October 2021 07:21

inverno76
Messages: 2342
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...

2 Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 22 October 2021 22:52

watchman wrote on Fri, 22 October 2021 22:50

...having a real 3rd line is such a difference maker.

...good game boys. Days off now... well deserved. Wave Towel

Days off in Vegas. Golfing. Taking in the Raiders - Eagles Sunday. Pretty great team bonding going down these next few days

Now we need to avoid the Covid.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793432 is a reply to message #793411 ]	Sat, 23 October 2021 10:22

Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006

No Cups

5-0, and other than than the PP, they are still playing well below their potential. If injuries and covid stay away, this could be a very special year.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793434 is a reply to message #793430 ]	Sat, 23 October 2021 11:30

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Mike wrote on Sat, 23 October 2021 06:46

I wonder how things might have changed in terms of what Holland di if Bouchard had played down the stretch more last season when there was ample opportunity to activate him in the lineup. Hard to say. He had 14 games last year but sure doesnt seem like it.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793435 is a reply to message #793432 ]	Sat, 23 October 2021 11:36

K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA

2 Cups

Skoobz wrote on Sat, 23 October 2021 10:22

5-0, and other than than the PP, they are still playing well below their potential. If injuries and covid stay away, this could be a very special year.

All this is great, I think they can put up an outstanding regular season. At this stage it's only special if there's playoff hardware for the team when they're done playing. What I see so far is a team that isn't going to lay down when facing some adversity, and a confident group....so if that keeps up then maybe it can happen for them in the playoffs.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793436 is a reply to message #793411 ]	Sat, 23 October 2021 11:53

benv
Messages: 601
Registered: May 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

Check out the current top four NHL leaders in assists as of right now:

Connor McDavid 7
Leon Draisaitl 7
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 7
Jesse Puljujarvi 6

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793439 is a reply to message #793420 ]	Sat, 23 October 2021 13:31

kungpaobenji27
Messages: 340
Registered: August 2003
Location: Irving, Texas

No Cups

Oscargasm wrote on Fri, 22 October 2021 23:52

watchman wrote on Fri, 22 October 2021 22:50

...having a real 3rd line is such a difference maker.

...good game boys. Days off now... well deserved. Wave Towel

Days off in Vegas. Golfing. Taking in the Raiders - Eagles Sunday. Pretty great team bonding going down these next few days

I'm still pretty skeptical about these long breaks that happen earlier in the season....mainly given how many gosh darn back to back games we have right before playoff time in March/April....but glad the guys get this extended weekend in Vegas to enjoy the festivities. Let's just hope none of them end up like that guy in San Jose owing 500K to the Cosmopolitan Hotel lol

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793441 is a reply to message #793411 ]	Sat, 23 October 2021 14:15

Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC

4 Cups

Solid game, with few exceptions (Barrie?)

Bouchard looks pretty good up on the top 2, his improvement has been quicker than expected

McD other worldly.

Koski was great in a back to back.. although that howitzer glove hand (clear sight) you'd hope could get stopped 8/10 times.

Hyman.. so happy with that pick up.. hard to believe we have Nuge + Hyman long term (10.625).. for less cap than Marner (10.9) Thank you Toronto!! :)

LD moving quicker, playing center is a good change for him.

Yamo brought it up a notch.. nice to know an extra notch is actually there.

Keith is playing quick and smart, awesome pass to Kassian for his goal. Great addition.

Ceci steady, him and Keith as a pair are improving each game, room still to go.

Foegle.. another awesome pick up, guy brings it every shift, opposition usually back on their heels whenever he's on the ice.

Need to do something about Barrie, he's a liability out there on D.. its early season, but not even playing as good as last year, keep playing like this and he might be the cap space they'll need to sign JP.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793458 is a reply to message #793441 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 07:19

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Man - 5 days between games in a looooong time.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793459 is a reply to message #793430 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 09:21

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

3 Cups

Mike wrote on Sat, 23 October 2021 06:46

Here is a question for you. If before last years season someone came to you and said, in the 21-22 Bouchard to start the year looking like a legit stud, at worse top 3, right shot dman but the trade off is they did what they did with him last year. In doing that, the Oilers were a good team last year, made the playoffs but lost out no because the defense was bad, it was because they couldn't score. Would you take that? I sure would.

I don't know if how they handled Bouchard last year was completely right but I do know it sure didn't hurt him. I do know that by all accounts whatever they did last year, helped him improve. I don't know if he would have just improved anyway, I doubt it but he could have. I don't know if he played more, he'd be that much better. He's been more than I ever could have expected so I don't know how he could me much better but maybe he could. All I know is, he was drafted by the Oilers, they slow played the crap out of him, maybe more than I personally would have liked but he looks fantastic, so far everything I had hoped he would be when he was drafted so I am having a hard time being upset with how the Oilers handled him at all if this is the end results.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793462 is a reply to message #793459 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 10:22

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 09:21

I have a really hard time believing that sitting in the pressbox for the bulk of a season improved Bouchard. If asked about it, I definitely believe that he'll say that it was really valuable - because he's not going to call out his team or his coach. But there were reasons to like his game a lot last year, but he didn't get a lot of opportunity, and one game where the goalie couldn't stop anything ended his season - despite the fact that his pairing (playing on his off-wing with Bear) was actually fantastic that game.

When Joe Thornton was a rookie, his head coach was Pat Burns - another who never really liked rookies, and always wanted people to know who was boss. He scratched Thornton for 27 games that year, and played him low minutes when he was in the lineup. Jumbo Joe only tallied 7 points in 55 games that year. He didn't do a lot to show his displeasure then, but years later when he was with the Sharks, he was asked the leading question whether the tough love from his first coach helped him become the player he grew to become. He scoffed that he didn't learn a lot from not playing.

After Burns died, Thornton changed his tune a little and gave him a bunch of credit as his first coach, but I think that's more the nice things you say about someone who's passed away and the prior comments are likely more true. Players learn most from seeing game action - not from watching from the press box. That's why you and I and the posters of Oilfans.com, despite watching a lot of NHL games, aren't growing greatly in our skills.

Tippett should have given him more of a push last year. He deserved that and showed it when he did play. Because we didn't, there was a bunch of hand-wringing about the defence this summer, and the Oilers made some unforced errors that made the group worse. More visibility on Bouchard's abilities might have helped a lot with that - which in turn may have left us more financial ability to afford a new goalie.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793464 is a reply to message #793462 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 11:20

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 10:22

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 09:21

A lot of what happened with Bouchard last year depends on what the team was telling him and how they treated him during the season. Certainly there is some benefit to practicing with professionals, learning their habits, and watching games with people who are teaching you and improving your understanding. I watch games with a beer and a laptop open while doing work... that doesn't help me understand hockey better. *IF* the Oilers had Bouchard watching games with a rotating cast of experienced hockey people who were teaching him the game, last season could have been very valuable. If they left him to his own devices in the pressbox (or loge or wherever they kept people last year) to eat popcorn while endlessly pulling the carrot of game time away it would have been less than productive time.

I guess your perspective of the situation depends on how you see the Oilers and their ability to manage people.

I think it's fair to say Bouchard could have been used a few more times against Ottawa and once the standings were decided, but that might be small potatoes compared to a winter of carefully managed practical experience.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793476 is a reply to message #793459 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 13:09

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 08:21

No, I wouldn't take that at all. It was dumb when they did it and it's still dumb now.

The other thing that we haven't talked about is the management perspective. Maybe if they had played him more, Holland would have realized that Bouchard was ready for a bigger role (let's not forget, he started the season on the 3rd pairing, so obviously even his own coaches and GM didn't know how good he was). And then maybe when Larsson walked, maybe Holland doesn't panic and think he needs to trade Bear because he HAS to re-sign Barrie to play with Nurse because he doesn't think (incorrectly imo) that Bear/Bouchard are up to the task.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 October 2021 14:55]

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793478 is a reply to message #793476 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 13:28

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Goose wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 16:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 08:21

Yeah:

Nurse/Bouchard
Keith/Bear

looks WAYYYY better than

Nurse/Barrie
Keith/Ceci

But there was no way to know that going into this year because, well we didn't get to see Bouchard, even when there was absolutely nothing left to gain or lose. It was a management miscue, regardless how well Bouchard plays this year.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793479 is a reply to message #793478 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 13:40

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Mike wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 13:28

Goose wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 16:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 08:21

The crazy thing is that we're paying Ceci $3.25MM, while Bear would just have been $2MM this year. Not only did we shoot ourselves in the foot, but we wasted over $1MM of cap space at the same time.

If you don't sign Barrie, and instead get a third pairing right shot D-man, then we're even better off cap-wise and even with the unforced error on Keith, we have $3-4MM that could have gone towards goaltending.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 October 2021 13:42]

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793481 is a reply to message #793479 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 14:28

GabbyDugan
Messages: 828
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton, AB

No Cups

Meanwhile, the Oilers leave Las Vegas. hopefully with most of their hard earned money.

lines and defense pairings at practise.

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/blog-oilers-return-to-practi ce-after-road-trip/c-327217314

Forwards

Hyman - McDavid - Puljujarvi
RNH - Draisaitl - Yamamoto
Foegele - Ryan - Kassian
Perlini - Shore - Turris
Benson - Sceviour

Defence

Nurse - Bouchard
Keith - Ceci
Koekkoek/Russell - Barrie

Goalies

Koskinen
Skinner

Goaltender Mike Smith remains on injured reserve but was on the ice in a track suit prior to the start of Monday's practice, assisting with the pre-skate reps for Mikko Koskinen and Stuart Skinner.

Barrie's stock seems to be trending downward, and Russell looked pretty rusty.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 October 2021 14:34]

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793482 is a reply to message #793481 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 14:42

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

GabbyDugan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 17:28

Barrie's stock seems to be trending downward, and Russell looked pretty rusty.

Man, that pairing was bad. Get 4K in there and see if he and Barrie are a passable 3rd pair. I never want to see Russel-Barrie again.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793483 is a reply to message #793481 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 14:45

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

GabbyDugan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 14:28

Hyman - McDavid - Puljujarvi
RNH - Draisaitl - Yamamoto

I really hope this stays like this. Two days is a lot of time for Tippett to overthink things...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793484 is a reply to message #793483 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 15:37

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 14:45

GabbyDugan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 14:28

Hyman - McDavid - Puljujarvi
RNH - Draisaitl - Yamamoto

I really hope this stays like this. Two days is a lot of time for Tippett to overthink things...

Yams took 2 games to get going on the DRY line. I think he needs to be tested again. 5 games with McDrai on top line, then try DRY again and see if yams still has it

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793486 is a reply to message #793411 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 16:10

Rocksteady
Messages: 527
Registered: March 2007

No Cups

Been enjoying the games..

I'm not sure how I feel about that, the feeling is so odd to me.

I still cringe at our defence, although Keith has made me shut up a while.

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793487 is a reply to message #793479 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 16:48

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 13:40

we have $3-4MM that could have gone towards goaltending.

What are you talking about? Oilers are set in net for the next two years. Unless Mike Smith breaks his hip, but he's the sort of guy who takes great care of himself, and now he plays on the same team as an immune system expert.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793488 is a reply to message #793487 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 17:15

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 16:48

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 13:40

we have $3-4MM that could have gone towards goaltending.

The hilarious thing will be when Koskinen has a bit of a bounce-back this year, in part because Smith is brittle and he's forced to the forefront again and the Oilers re-up him and tell us again that this tandem has been pretty decent the last few years - even if there's no playoff success.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793489 is a reply to message #793479 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 18:19

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 13:40

Mike wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 13:28

Goose wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 16:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 08:21

I may actually trust Ceci out there more than Barrie. In my mind the argument is more Barrie vs Bear than Ceci vs Bear.

Bear has always put up spectacular results playing weaker comp on a 3rd pair. I don't actually trust Barrie much as a 3rd pair guy. I also think Nurse looks just as good as Barrie on the PP, and Bouch will likely be even better.

Bear/Ceci/Bouch would have been fine with me on the right side. I'm saying this with the benefit of seeing Ceci more in our group. From what I've seen he actually plays a lot like Larsson. Maybe less nasty, but with better wheels. Larsson had to keep adding more nasty though because his wheels are kinda busted. And of course the benefit of seeing Bouch actually play. That's none of our fault though not knowing what he would bring yet. I don't give a pass to Holland or Tippett though for having no clue, they had all the time in the world last year.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 October 2021 18:24]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793490 is a reply to message #793489 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 18:46

oilfan94
Messages: 408
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA

No Cups

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 20:19

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 13:40

Mike wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 13:28

Goose wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 16:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 08:21

One part here to remember is that we didn't lose Bear for nothing, but we kept an asset in Barrie. I like Bear more than Barrie, but if you are making the argument of Bear vs Barrie then it is actually Bear plus maybe a free agent vs Barrie plus Foegele. Foegele gives of a complete 3rd line for the first time in years, which is pretty valuable. Plus we still have an asset in Barrie who last season led all defender in scoring, that has to have some value still. So the x-factor is who do you think Holland would have signed instead of Barrie to fill in the gap on the 3rd line, and would they have been as good as Foegele as looked so far (as much as you can judge 5 games in)?

I have always liked Barrie, and while I think that he has had a really poor start to the season, I think that it is better to have him then to not have him. I miss Bear, but this season I think it is better to have Foegele then Bear.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793492 is a reply to message #793490 ]	Mon, 25 October 2021 18:53

Kr55
Messages: 10770
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

oilfan94 wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 18:46

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 20:19

Adam wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 13:40

Mike wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 13:28

Goose wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 16:09

RDOilerfan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 08:21

I think Foegele was moved for cap reasons from the Canes, so we likely could have got him still for picks/prospects if we were targeting him. I don't think he was that valued by the Canes, they have a team full of these analytics wizard puck hound type guys. Guys that we didn't have many of until this year. Wonder how the Bear trade went down. It may have been Oilers looking for a Bear taker and we just ended up with Foegele as a consequence of who called back. Canes are definitely an obvious team to call since Bear has been great in analytics land.

Given what we knew in the summer, I do get why we felt we needed to keep Barrie. That's because we had no clue what we had with Bouch. It's just an unfortunate sequence of events in the end.
One we could have avoided IMO.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 October 2021 18:55]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793501 is a reply to message #793486 ]	Tue, 26 October 2021 10:30

Dragon_Matt
Messages: 766
Registered: January 2009
Location: edmonton

No Cups

something that caught my eye was when Bouchard was on the penalty kill. He sits IN FRONT of the opponent in front of our net. He gets pushed around as if he were a forward fighting for space.
Seriously... watch replays or next game. I love what he brings, but he needs some heavy coaching still. I for one wouldn't have him on the PK for the next month.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793503 is a reply to message #793501 ]	Tue, 26 October 2021 11:37

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 26 October 2021 10:30

I bet 20 or 30 games in the press box would fix that.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793506 is a reply to message #793503 ]	Tue, 26 October 2021 12:26

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

CrudeRemarks wrote on Tue, 26 October 2021 14:37

Dragon_Matt wrote on Tue, 26 October 2021 10:30

I bet 20 or 30 games in the press box would fix that.

Gold star for you.

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793507 is a reply to message #793492 ]	Tue, 26 October 2021 13:28

Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 17:53

Ya, the idea that the Oilers needed to move Bear to get a 3rd line winger is nonsensical. A cheap, young, Top 4 RHD is way more valuable than a 3rd line winger, even a good one. Guys like Jared McCann went for next to nothing. That spot could have been filled without moving Bear.

Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793513 is a reply to message #793507 ]	Tue, 26 October 2021 16:01

Adam
Messages: 7175
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Goose wrote on Tue, 26 October 2021 13:28

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 25 October 2021 17:53

The team has seemed pretty dense about the opportunities created by the expansion draft. With both the Vegas and Seattle drafts, the Oilers had more spots than they really needed. There are teams who had useful players exposed. If you offered enough of an incentive for them, you could get a guy who was solid. Would just cost you a pick or an exempt player. The other team is still going to lose someone, but if the next person on their list is a Griffin Reinhart, then they should make the trade. I'm not sure our management in either draft was aware they had much of an option.

Honestly, I think they should have been trying to find ways to convince Seattle to take Neal or Koskinen. If they were working out something with Larsson, then maybe you give Larsson and a first to take Neal. The amount of difference that makes to our cap hit is really significant and gives us flexibility rather than killing more cap space for the next 4 years.

As for Bear? I like Foegele, but a guy who's a top 4 defenceman (used to play against Matthews all game last night by the way) is worth more than that. Keep Bear and your right side is set for years - whether you sign Barrie, Ceci or whoever else as the third pairing guy. Losing Jones is not that hard a pill to swallow (even though the trade was still god awful) because you have Broberg and Samorukov as guys who'll be pushing up in to that spot soon. On the right side, we have a dearth of quality prospects. Maybe that doesn't matter since the team felt it needed to commit long-term to both Barrie and Ceci...but it should have mattered, and so the team should have required a real premium return to part with that player.

I still think it's the craziest thing that the same organization that gave up an all-star winger for a stay-at-home right shot defenceman, saying that they just couldn't acquire one any other way, then turns around and gives a right shot defenceman with a higher ceiling away for a third line winger. It's bonkers.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: Review: Edmonton @ Vegas (Game #5) [message #793519 is a reply to message #793513 ]	Tue, 26 October 2021 17:29

Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Tue, 26 October 2021 19:01

I still think it's the craziest thing that the same organization that gave up an all-star winger for a stay-at-home right shot defenceman, saying that they just couldn't acquire one any other way, then turns around and gives a right shot defenceman with a higher ceiling away for a third line winger. It's bonkers.

That’s when you need the laugh/cry emoji. Price of Larsson is Hall, but return for Bear is Foegele. I like Foegele quite a bit, but I’m sure we could have gotten him cheaper than that. Say, Caleb Jones and 3rd!

Unless we win a Cup with Foegele, Within a couple years giving away Bear will look worse than gifting Petry to the Habs.

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