| Bear to Hurricanes [message #790446] |
Wed, 28 July 2021 09:19  |
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 Kr55
Messages: 10773
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Ethan Bear has been traded to Carolina.
Oh look. Team that values analytics wanted Bear. So surprised.
For Warren Foegele
JFresh @JFreshHockey
Warren Foegele, acquired by EDM, is a good two-way middle six forward whose only real weakness is finishing - despite that, he still scores at a decent rate because he gets high-quality chances. #LetsGoOilers
[Updated on: Wed, 28 July 2021 09:30]
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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 NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 1189
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI
1 Cup
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Anyone else head straight to google to figure out who the heck Warren Foegele is?
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NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
2 Cups
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| NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:21 |
Anyone else head straight to google to figure out who the heck Warren Foegele is?
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This guy?
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smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007
1 Cup
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I really wonder if Tippett forced this trade because of his gaffe in game 4.
Unbelievable, hard to see how we win this trade.
Clean house or bust
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oilfan94
Messages: 409
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA
No Cups
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A couple years ago we were all excited about Bear and Jones, two guys that were drafted in later round and becoming NHL players.
Hopefully Warren Foegele works out. His stat line doesn't look that bad, but I don't know about any other analytics for him.
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smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007
1 Cup
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| oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 08:23 |
A couple years ago we were all excited about Bear and Jones, two guys that were drafted in later round and becoming NHL players.
Hopefully Warren Foegele works out. His stat line doesn't look that bad, but I don't know about any other analytics for him.
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Analytics seems to like him. So that’s good.
He’s a 25 year old RFA as of now coming off a 1 year 2.125M deal.
Clean house or bust
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CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
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| smyth260 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:25 |
| oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 08:23 |
A couple years ago we were all excited about Bear and Jones, two guys that were drafted in later round and becoming NHL players.
Hopefully Warren Foegele works out. His stat line doesn't look that bad, but I don't know about any other analytics for him.
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Analytics seems to like him. So that’s good.
He’s a 25 year old RFA as of now coming off a 1 year 2.125M deal.
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Ah, the classic "Show me" deal. MacT would be proud.
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.
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Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| smyth260 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:25 |
| oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 08:23 |
A couple years ago we were all excited about Bear and Jones, two guys that were drafted in later round and becoming NHL players.
Hopefully Warren Foegele works out. His stat line doesn't look that bad, but I don't know about any other analytics for him.
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Analytics seems to like him. So that’s good.
He’s a 25 year old RFA as of now coming off a 1 year 2.125M deal.
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Everything I'm reading says decent third liner...but we gave up a good RHD for him. Does the management team not realize that they gave up TAYLOR HALL to get a decent RHD just a few short years ago?
That's shockingly low value for the player. I do think it's all that he was at fault on a big goal against in the playoffs and the team has no time for looking at the big picture.
Just brutal. They're blowing this summer completely.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
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| Adam wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:31 |
| smyth260 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:25 |
| oilfan94 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 08:23 |
A couple years ago we were all excited about Bear and Jones, two guys that were drafted in later round and becoming NHL players.
Hopefully Warren Foegele works out. His stat line doesn't look that bad, but I don't know about any other analytics for him.
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Analytics seems to like him. So that’s good.
He’s a 25 year old RFA as of now coming off a 1 year 2.125M deal.
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Everything I'm reading says decent third liner...but we gave up a good RHD for him. Does the management team not realize that they gave up TAYLOR HALL to get a decent RHD just a few short years ago?
That's shockingly low value for the player. I do think it's all that he was at fault on a big goal against in the playoffs and the team has no time for looking at the big picture.
Just brutal. They're blowing this summer completely.
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Seems like just the sort of responsible linemate we've been looking for to unlock Kyle Turris' potential!
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.
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Kr55
Messages: 10773
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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Young Willis breakdown
Jonathan Willis@JonathanWillis
Warren Foegele is an excellent young two-way winger and a brilliant fit for the third-line LW position. Good 5v5 scorer, good shot metrics, great PK numbers.
Ignoring cost for a moment, Oilers fans should be thrilled to have him in Edmonton.
Jonathan Willis@JonathanWillis
On the cost side: Ethan Bear is an excellent young two-way RD on a cheap contract who should provide the Hurricanes with exceptional value. He can play all three disciplines and I fully expect him to be a top-four mainstay for years to come.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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I promise you all this. I have watched a lot of Carolina last two years. He is a beast. This is a great trade. I said to a friend last week that WF was a guy I wanted. This is a huge pickup. This team will be much harder to play against.
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JPro
Messages: 810
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
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| Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:29 |
Young Willis breakdown
Jonathan Willis@JonathanWillis
Warren Foegele is an excellent young two-way winger and a brilliant fit for the third-line LW position. Good 5v5 scorer, good shot metrics, great PK numbers.
Ignoring cost for a moment, Oilers fans should be thrilled to have him in Edmonton.
Jonathan Willis@JonathanWillis
On the cost side: Ethan Bear is an excellent young two-way RD on a cheap contract who should provide the Hurricanes with exceptional value. He can play all three disciplines and I fully expect him to be a top-four mainstay for years to come.
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Holland math. 3rd line LW = RHD Top 4 D
What a terrific offseason.
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You guys are terribly frustrating to even try and comprehend. Bear is not a top 4 D. He maybe one day. We are in win now mode. This team is better today then it was two months ago. Jesus for once look into a trade. Making assumptions without even watching the guy play. Amazing really.
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Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| clutchlikeeberle wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:38 |
You guys are terribly frustrating to even try and comprehend. Bear is not a top 4 D. He maybe one day. We are in win now mode. This team is better today then it was two months ago. Jesus for once look into a trade. Making assumptions without even watching the guy play. Amazing really.
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Bear's underlying numbers were among the best on the team this year, despite an injury that derailed him, and a little bit of uneven play. He's a better defenceman than Barrie, he's a better defenceman than Keith at this point in Keith's career. And we swapped him for a third liner.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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Burgeoboy
Messages: 33
Registered: July 2006
Location: Burgeo, Newfoundland
No Cups
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I hear you, I have no idea who this kid is so I won't judge the deal, but I really didn't want to move Bear.
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oilfan94
Messages: 409
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA
No Cups
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| clutchlikeeberle wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 11:38 |
You guys are terribly frustrating to even try and comprehend. Bear is not a top 4 D. He maybe one day. We are in win now mode. This team is better today then it was two months ago. Jesus for once look into a trade. Making assumptions without even watching the guy play. Amazing really.
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I like your optimism, and I'll admit I know nothing about Foegele. I am happy that we got another young player for him instead of someone about to retire or a draft pick. I liked Bear, and maybe this is a risky trade, but the team has to take some calculated risks to try and get better. This feels like that, even though I question management's ability to be calculating.
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JPro
Messages: 810
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
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| clutchlikeeberle wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:38 |
You guys are terribly frustrating to even try and comprehend. Bear is not a top 4 D. He maybe one day. We are in win now mode. This team is better today then it was two months ago. Jesus for once look into a trade. Making assumptions without even watching the guy play. Amazing really.
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You want amazing? Check out that back end:
Nurse-Barrie
Keith-Ceci
Mike Smith in net
Tap the “over” on oilers games this year haha. Woof.
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Kr55
Messages: 10773
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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Ken Holland @FakeOilersGM
Caleb Jones check, Ethan Bear check, John Marino check! I’m nearly done getting rid of all the players the Oilers drafted in 2015.
Just one more.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
2 Cups
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| Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:31 |
Ken Holland @FakeOilersGM
Caleb Jones check, Ethan Bear check, John Marino check! I’m nearly done getting rid of all the players the Oilers drafted in 2015.
Just one more.
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But they all came from late rounds that certain posters around here refuse to believe NHL quality players can come from. Just lottery tickets, amirite?
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Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| NetBOG wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:40 |
| Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:31 |
Ken Holland @FakeOilersGM
Caleb Jones check, Ethan Bear check, John Marino check! I’m nearly done getting rid of all the players the Oilers drafted in 2015.
Just one more.
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But they all came from late rounds that certain posters around here refuse to believe NHL quality players can come from. Just lottery tickets, amirite?
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Who doesn't believe you can get good players in later rounds?
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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Sounds like the deal is, in fact, one-for-one. Amazing.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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oilfan94
Messages: 409
Registered: June 2006
Location: USA
No Cups
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| Adam wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 11:48 |
Sounds like the deal is, in fact, one-for-one. Amazing.
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Saves time on paperwork, probably.
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I promise the WF will be a fan favourite by December.
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CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
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| clutchlikeeberle wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:57 |
I promise the WF will be a fan favourite by December.
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I liked Larsson too. Doesn't make the trade value right. Oilers will not be winning a Cup with McDavid.
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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| CrudeRemarks wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 10:03 |
| clutchlikeeberle wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 09:57 |
I promise the WF will be a fan favourite by December.
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I liked Larsson too. Doesn't make the trade value right. Oilers will not be winning a Cup with McDavid.
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If all of Holland's bets on defense pay off, this trade is pretty good and the Oilers will be a lot of fun to watch. If Holland's defense bets don't pay out, well, the fans might be in for a tough time.
I don't think the Oilers offensive depth is good enough right now for WF to be a on the 3rd line.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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inverno76
Messages: 2343
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...
2 Cups
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I like Foegele as well. Better return than I expected.
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Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| Quote: |
Michael Parkatti
@mparkatti
OF COURSE the Canes were going to take advantage of this situation. *shakes fist*
1. Identify where teams are undervaluing assets
2. Exploit them
Bear is an amazing, young, *developing* RHD. Return isn't catastrophic but we just gave up a legit NHL career.
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"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
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| Adam wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 10:23 |
| Quote: |
Michael Parkatti
@mparkatti
OF COURSE the Canes were going to take advantage of this situation. *shakes fist*
1. Identify where teams are undervaluing assets
2. Exploit them
Bear is an amazing, young, *developing* RHD. Return isn't catastrophic but we just gave up a legit NHL career.
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Oilers, gave up, a legit nhl career for another nhl career?
Look. I liked Ethan Bear the oiler..good potential if he could figure it out consistently, but we shouldn’t treat this guy like he’s the next Alex Pietrangelo. He’s good. But cmon.
Cost controlled? Kid held out last offseason, while not training, to get 2M. What’s stopping hi from holding out next offseason to demand 5 whole again, not training and showing up not ready to go.
Good luck in Carolina Ethan.
Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty
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Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
1 Cup
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One positive of this deal is that we won't have to listen to Rishaug, Spector, et al complain about Bear not being good enough when he's dragging Keith around the rink and Nurse/Barrie are getting all of the McDavid/Drai minutes.
The results for this team will now be 100% on Ken Holland and Dave Tippett (until the Oilers media inevitably turn on McDavid/Drai for not being "winners", but I don't think we're quite there yet).
Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games
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Kr55
Messages: 10773
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| Goose wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 11:13 |
One positive of this deal is that we won't have to listen to Rishaug, Spector, et al complain about Bear not being good enough when he's dragging Keith around the rink and Nurse/Barrie are getting all of the McDavid/Drai minutes.
The results for this team will now be 100% on Ken Holland and Dave Tippett (until the Oilers media inevitably turn on McDavid/Drai for not being "winners", but I don't think we're quite there yet).
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Yes, excuses are over. There is no one to blame aside from Holland, Bobby Burgers and I guess Hitchcock is somehow in the mix. This is the year of the Holland. He has pissed away enough assets since he took over to cancel out the pain in the butt Koskinen's contract still is for 1 more season.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
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I actually quite like Warren Foegele. Every Hurricanes game I watched (which granted, wasn't a ton), he was a player that stood out positively. If we are talking about building honest to goodness forward depth, I think he is a really good piece to that.
I don't like the cost of acquisition, but I like the player fine.
Moving Bear just didn't need to happen though, independent of signing Barrie. If you believe Bear is better than Russell, you could always just play him on the offside. I have to say, the Oilers defense as it is makes me nervous, and they are locked into it for a couple seasons here.
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NetBOG
Messages: 2951
Registered: January 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
2 Cups
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I'm wondering if the junk that happened with the fans after the playoffs last year really affected Bear and led to home wanting a change. Otherwise, I don't see why he's moved out for Cody Cici.
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Kr55
Messages: 10773
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| NetBOG wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 11:28 |
I'm wondering if the junk that happened with the fans after the playoffs last year really affected Bear and led to home wanting a change. Otherwise, I don't see why he's moved out for Cody Cici.
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Wish Bear the best, but Cane just signed that scumbag DeAngelo too. Wonder how that's gonna go.
At least the fan attention should be greatly minimized in Carolina. Can just go about his business.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
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Fun "what if" game - what if we didn't make that stupid Keith trade and instead used Jones and a pick to get Foegele, and still had Bear? And like $5M in cap space...
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Kr55
Messages: 10773
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| Mike wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 12:15 |
Fun "what if" game - what if we didn't make that stupid Keith trade and instead used Jones and a pick to get Foegele, and still had Bear? And like $5M in cap space...
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Who would teach our players how to win?
So much of this "going for it" plan by Holland depends on everyone absorbing winning powers from Keith.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
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| Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 15:17 |
| Mike wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 12:15 |
Fun "what if" game - what if we didn't make that stupid Keith trade and instead used Jones and a pick to get Foegele, and still had Bear? And like $5M in cap space...
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Who would teach our players how to win?
So much of this "going for it" plan by Holland depends on everyone absorbing winning powers from Keith.
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How does that work? Does he get depleted if losers like McDavid and Draisaitl absorb too much, is it it like an eternal fountain of winning?
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CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
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| Mike wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 12:19 |
| Kr55 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 15:17 |
| Mike wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 12:15 |
Fun "what if" game - what if we didn't make that stupid Keith trade and instead used Jones and a pick to get Foegele, and still had Bear? And like $5M in cap space...
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Who would teach our players how to win?
So much of this "going for it" plan by Holland depends on everyone absorbing winning powers from Keith.
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How does that work? Does he get depleted if losers like McDavid and Draisaitl absorb too much, is it it like an eternal fountain of winning?
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Hmm, McD and Drai as "winning power" vampires. Explains why Getzlaf didn't want to come here.
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.
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Adam
Messages: 7176
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| NetBOG wrote on Wed, 28 July 2021 11:28 |
I'm wondering if the junk that happened with the fans after the playoffs last year really affected Bear and led to home wanting a change. Otherwise, I don't see why he's moved out for Cody Ceci.
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I don't really believe this was driven by Bear. More likely driven by Tippett who only forgives errors made by veteran defencemen.
One other thing that irks me about the deal is that it probably makes the racists happy. They harass a player, the team turns around and trades that player within three months for an underwhelming return after being a little slow to defend him initially. It is not a good look.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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Kr55
Messages: 10773
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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For anyone that wants to feel better. Dom Luszczyszyn, the king of analytics for The Athletic thinks Bear is not that good and the deal is pretty fair.
dom at the athletic @domluszczyszyn
Going to go against the grain here... and say this deal looks pretty fair
I don't think Bear is *that* good and Foegele is a pretty useful piece for Edmonton's forward depth. Similar upside for both players based on comps.
Still thinks Ceci deal is crap though.
[Updated on: Wed, 28 July 2021 13:42]
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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Skookum Jim
Messages: 4419
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
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6'-2" x 200lbs .. skill.. skates well.. drives the net.. great addition
Wish E. Bear well, really liked him since junior, if he applies himself to training like he did the off season prior to the last one, he can get his career on track and do well.
McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,
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