GuestLogin / Register

This day on November 22
Acquired: Kari Takko (1990)
Departed: Bruce Bell (1990)

Happy Birthday To: SAE_10W30, Radville, Flavs93

OILERS INFOOILFANS
Friday, Nov 22, 2024 4:12 AM MT
F.A.Q. Terms of Use F.A.Q. F.A.Q.
Members Members   Search Search     Register Register   Login Login   Home Home
 Oilers » Duncan Keith to OilersPages (9): [ «  <  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  >  »]
Switch to flat viewSwitch to tree viewCreate a new topicSubmit Reply
 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789158 is a reply to message #789154 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 16:25

CrusaderPi wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 16:24

Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 16:22

K.McC#24 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 15:55

nullterm wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 15:07

travgwhite wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 13:01

Isn't this basically a Klefbom replacement who will go on LTIR? Along with Jones money going out the cap is almost a wash? So basically Keith for a 3rd. Or am I missing something?


Pretty much.

I was against it, but now that it's done, I'm not gonna cry over moving a 6/7 dman to fill a hole in our top four. It's done, time to move on.

šŸ‘šŸ‘ 100%, and you're better for it.

I find that long term anger over moves by the Oilers, ranging from questionable to outright stupid, adversely affects my mental wellbeing. Yesterday was not a good day for Ken Holland, I don't think.....but I've basically talked myself into being over it because I have zero influence as a tier 2 minion. Covid19 and coping has been a big part of me cutting back on my anger I think....its just shorter term venting for the most part..šŸ˜


This is Oilers fan life.

1a) The Press tell us the Oilers are about to do something crappy
1b) Oilers do something crappy
2) People all realize it's crappy
3) People all realize they have no control over what the Oilers do and can't help but to still be hopelessly invested in hoping the Oilers finally do something good
4) Various arguments are created to rationalize why this crappy move might not be that bad
5) Large amount of fans accept the arguments to put it all behind them
6) Oilers continue to fail

rinse repeat.

You missed the step where the crappy move is sold hard by the press before it happens. I think that helps with step 4.

Eat
Sleep
Make horrifyingly and obviously bad decisions
Repeat



Edited with a note on stop 4. Media provides step 4 fuel before step one, and many fans skip steps 2 and 3 because they were already mentally prepared (this is called Kurt Leavins Syndrome).


And just to note, I'm not claiming any high ground here. I do it too. My rationalizing of Hall for Larsson is immortalized on this site as I desperately searched for statistics to suggest Larsson could still fulfil something close to his 4th OA potential. Looch signing. Eberle trade. Schultz trade. Lots of examples.

We're all trapped on this slowly sinking ship and need a boost here and there to still find some way to be hopeful :)

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789160 is a reply to message #789126 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
inverno76 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 12:18

Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 11:28

So what if the option were Larsson or Barrie on RD for similar contracts.. who would you take?





Tough call. I went Larsson only because Barrie holds Bouchard back, who I think can achieve similar numbers to Barrie if given the opportunity. Larsson also adds some physicality, but I still do not trust his wonky back.


Yeah I know, it is tough, Larsson playing like he did last year (I thought he really improved from the previous couple of years) would be a solid compliment to Keith, but what if he slides back to what he was previously.. Barrie, not great defensively, where would he play with Nurse or Keith? If Nurse, then Keith gets Bear? Not a good combo IMHO. Actually Bear playing top 4 is a worry for me in general, unless Bouchard can play top 4, which I doubt at this point.
If Larsson is signed, who is #1 RD with Nurse? Bear? That is scary, Bear took a few steps back last year, didn't take off season training very serious after he signed his extension, thought he was a made man.. not a good sign, indicates a lack of dedication to getting better, which as a 2nd year player he needs try to do, get better, every day, like a pro.

I picked Larsson over Barrie..

[Updated on: Tue, 13 July 2021 16:48]

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789161 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Decent read on Keith's recent performance and just in general how this is a very typical Oilers move. They can't stop talking about Keith's past accomplishments. We know this way of thinking well, it was a main topic every time Lowe did an interview for a decade. We hired most of our front office on the principle that having more people with past cups = future success. That's the heart of Oilers culture under Lowe and Katz.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945847-duncan-keith-tra de-another-example-of-edmonton-oilers-mismanagement

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789163 is a reply to message #789161 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
Kr55 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 15:50

Decent read on Keith's recent performance and just in general how this is a very typical Oilers move. They can't stop talking about Keith's past accomplishments. We know this way of thinking well, it was a main topic every time Lowe did an interview for a decade. We hired most of our front office on the principle that having more people with past cups = future success. That's the heart of Oilers culture under Lowe and Katz.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2945847-duncan-keith-tra de-another-example-of-edmonton-oilers-mismanagement


Well the on the bright side the main skill that puts a former great player out to pasture is his skating and keeping up to, and in to, the play, Keith still has the wheels and acceleration.

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789167 is a reply to message #789163 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
clutchlikeeberle is currently offline clutchlikeeberle
Messages: 252
Registered: April 2012
No Cups
I'm looking forward to the day when you all eat crow. This is a solid move. Overpay? Sure. Keith is a pro. He now has a chip on his shoulder. He will regain form and I'll will put money down we improve next year. Also, guess what. If Keith retires we gain not 5.5 but almost 9 mill in cap space. So the second year could be moot point if he retires.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789172 is a reply to message #789167 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 16:35

I'm looking forward to the day when you all eat crow. This is a solid move. Overpay? Sure. Keith is a pro. He now has a chip on his shoulder. He will regain form and I'll will put money down we improve next year. Also, guess what. If Keith retires we gain not 5.5 but almost 9 mill in cap space. So the second year could be moot point if he retires.



I agree that Keith will be a good to great, for the 2 years, just the opportunity to get a cheaper cap hit does not appear to be exploited by management, for whatever reasons, and lost the potential to keep more cap to add more/better players, which is the disappointment. Trade result is going to depend on what Holland can squeeze out of the remainder of the cap he has for forwards, goalie(s), and a RD (I think we need one).

One top #1, #2 LW could be filled by D. Holloway, would be a big bonus if he could..

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789173 is a reply to message #789172 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 22:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Skookum Jim wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 20:41

clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 16:35

I'm looking forward to the day when you all eat crow. This is a solid move. Overpay? Sure. Keith is a pro. He now has a chip on his shoulder. He will regain form and I'll will put money down we improve next year. Also, guess what. If Keith retires we gain not 5.5 but almost 9 mill in cap space. So the second year could be moot point if he retires.



I agree that Keith will be a good to great, for the 2 years, just the opportunity to get a cheaper cap hit does not appear to be exploited by management, for whatever reasons, and lost the potential to keep more cap to add more/better players, which is the disappointment. Trade result is going to depend on what Holland can squeeze out of the remainder of the cap he has for forwards, goalie(s), and a RD (I think we need one).

One top #1, #2 LW could be filled by D. Holloway, would be a big bonus if he could..


We can hope Keith will turn his game around from the last few years. But...I feel like everyone predicting the demise of old man Smith last off-season are owed one here by the Hockey Gods of age regression. Seems like an uphill battle. I know I will be locked and loaded to rip on Keith if he's stick waving and chasing guys around the ice icon_lol rasta

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789176 is a reply to message #789173 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 23:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Kurt Leavins with another ridiculous article:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey /making-the-case-for-duncan-keith-and-how-edmonton-oilers-pl ayers-feel-about-the-trade

Romulus Apotheosis (@romulusnotnuma) is talking about this section tonight on twitter:

Quote:

Some wanted Ken Holland to ā€œsqueezeā€ Stan Bowman for more. But thatā€™s not how the NHL works. This isnā€™t fantasy hockey where your #1 goal is to fleece your buddy and take home $100 in beer money at the end of the year. Ken Holland may need to do business with Bowman (and with many other fellow General Managers) again. Reputation in G.M.ā€™s circles is huge. If all you ever do is squeeze, after a while they may stop taking your calls. And that goes for all of them. NHL G.M.ā€™s share a symbiotic relationship. They need one another. If all you do is takeā€¦after a while, not many will be willing to give. As in business, the best deal is the one that is good for both sides.


I've talked about this before here. I don't think this is just Leavins who believes this - the Oilers actually believe there's a fraternity of GMs, and that they kind of have each other's back. Sure, they hope their team wins, but you know you gotta look out for the other guys too. That's what leads to Bob Nicholson traipsing around asking everyone and their dog for advice and taking it all at face value. To them, you don't want to embarrass a guy in a trade - and if someone else embarrasses you, as Shero, Snow, Yzerman, Bowman and others have, well, aw shucks, I'm sure they'll give one back to us in the future to make up for it, right?

The team doesn't understand cap manipulation or avoidance, because bending the rules to help yourself win isn't very fair and brotherly. They don't understand why anyone bothers with analytics, because if we're all in it for each other, do we really need that edge on everyone else?

The fact is, while there may be another couple bottom feeder teams who also believe this, most of them are laser focused on winning, and they just see the Oilers as an easy mark. Act friendly, "help" them with their GM search, and then take them for anything you can get every time you can and thank the heavens that a team with Connor McDavid on it is so poorly run.

They should understand negotiations better, they should understand leverage better, and they should be out for blood in every trade. Yes, in any deal, there's a certain amount of compromise to reach an agreement, but recognize when another team has their hands tied and you can take advantage of them. Take them for every thing you can. Don't worry about that GM being mad about it. If you embarrass him bad enough, he'll probably get fired for it eventually anyhow. If not, at some point he's going to try to pull the wool over your eyes again and you may be able to take him back to the woodshed a second time. This shouldn't be so hard to understand - but all Holland's bluster at Nugent-Bowman about "not being able to squeeze other GMs" is just wrong. That's his job. If he doesn't understand that, it's time for someone new in the chair who's younger, a little hungrier, and much more focused on winning.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789180 is a reply to message #789167 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 06:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
clutchlikeeberle wrote on Tue, 13 July 2021 20:35

I'm looking forward to the day when you all eat crow.


The problem is that there is absolutely no crow to be eaten regardless of outcome. Even if Keith turns back the clock and puts up 100 points, wins the Norris and leads us to a Stanley Cup, this will still have been one of the worst trades in our franchise's history.

We held absolutely every single card. The pressure was on Bowman to figure something out for this offseason, and we provided him a solution that I'm sure he wouldn't even have dared dream was possible. From the CHI side, this would have been one of those proposals that would have been laughed off as completely unrealistic.

They had no options here. They were going to be forced to protect him or buy him out. He wasn't waiving for anyone but the Oilers or Canucks. We just had to stand pat and either sign him for $1M after he was bought out, or wait for Bowman to come back with a pick, salary retention and maybe a contract going back. Maybe a deal with a 3rd team to reduce the cap hit...

That article Adam linked - they mention a similar situation with Marleau and the Leafs. Carolina didn't PAY Toronto for their bad contract. Toronto PAID Carolina a 1st round pick to take him.

I maintain that taking all factors into account, this is one of the worst trades in franchise history. With this, I doubt we see a Cup in the McDavid era. I feel it's that bad.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789168 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Tue, 13 July 2021 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Xombie is currently offline Xombie
Messages: 454
Registered: March 2004
Location: E-Town
No Cups
Ahh boys boys boys. We must remember the NHL is a cartel, nothing more. Seriously the dictionary defines a cartel as "an alliance of rivals". The syndicate in Chicago has to compete with some real competition over sport fan dollars, what are we gonna move over to? Watch the Elks? This favour we did Chi-town is good for the essential bigger U.S. market so therefore good for the league, good for the future of the NHL, good for hockey!

Why would you selfishly put your own happiness ahead of the health of the entire cartel? There are tons of potential fan minority groups in urban Illinois. Fans of Oil suffer a bit because we foolishly believe hockey to be part of our culture. Mostly due to our misled parents taking us to "see our first game just like my dad did with me" and hyping up this sport in our formative years. Also hockeys the one activity which some other countries of the world care about that Canada is the best at, so some cultural pride was achieved. Whatever the reason, your interest and patronage is a sure thing. Your money is in the bag, counted already.

There is a mandate to grow the game. The Blackhawks can't suck AND make money recouping a year long shutdown AND drive ratings up for a new U.S. T.V. deal AND coerce minorities out of the Chicago ghettos. The Oilers can suck and the NHL can do all that, while still milking on that guaranteed Canadian cultural cash cow.

fig A)
Stan Bowman: Son of Bowman, Scotty. Best coach of all time they say. Worked with Holland to secure his cup legacy. Who was more instrumental to those Red Wing cups in a non salary cap world, Holland or Bowman? Would Holland even have the reputation enough to be GM of the Oilers right now without Scotty Bowman? Who would be paying their old partner back by helping said ex partner's son years later? DING DING DING Ken Hooooollaaaaaaaand!

Seth Jones WILL indeed be signed in Chicago. There is too much money to potentially be made with a minority star brother act drawing the eyes of minority folks in Chi-City on ESPN. You seriously believe that a few hurt feelings of Oiler fans can stop this? It's not about Ken Holland being autonomous. Kevin Lowe would've done the same thing. McTavish would've done the same thing. Chiarelli would've done the same thing. Steve Yzerman would've done the same deal. Heck if Stan Bowman was dumb enough to ply his trade in the Canadian wilderness he would have been forced to make the same deal. This wasn't a hockey or a GM trade.

The cartel of the NHL is not here to fairly and objectively find which city can hire a manager to manage a group of hockey players in the best manner and champion the best players and/or organizations. The cartel of the NHL is here to make a few guys who were already rich, much richer.



But then again what do I know anyhow? Keith's gonna be great here, just costs too much. Suter would come cheap too, lotsa d man changeover coming.

Larsson is gone-zo. Is it true his dad died while visiting Edmonton? I fear that to be an internet rumour, but if that's true put yourself in Larsson's shoes for just one minute: Swedish guy moves to a foreign country, gets traded to a different country for that teams former star player in a lopsided deal, loses his dad while dad visiting in the third country, then his good friend and teammate's shoulder falls off forcing retirement. Let's let Adam Larsson turn this page in his life and not take it personally as a slight to Edmonton and Canada itself when he signs in like Buffalo or some awful eastern U.S. team. Other possible destination I see is Vancouver...yucky!

Bob Marley and the (Hartford) Wailers.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789186 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
A 6/7 dman and a guy whoā€™s maybe going to crack your lineup in 4-5 years in that draft pick for Keith who can still play in your top 4 during your teams window? Cmon Oilfans. Blow the torches out.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789188 is a reply to message #789186 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RDOilerfan is currently offline RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016
3 Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 08:35

A 6/7 dman and a guy whoā€™s maybe going to crack your lineup in 4-5 years in that draft pick for Keith who can still play in your top 4 during your teams window? Cmon Oilfans. Blow the torches out.

Jones is top a guaranteed top 4. Ask Adam, he knows.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789189 is a reply to message #789188 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 08:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 08:46

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 08:35

A 6/7 dman and a guy whoā€™s maybe going to crack your lineup in 4-5 years in that draft pick for Keith who can still play in your top 4 during your teams window? Cmon Oilfans. Blow the torches out.

Jones is top a guaranteed top 4. Ask Adam, he knows.

Have you read anything in this thread?

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789227 is a reply to message #789188 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
RDOilerfan wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 08:46

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 08:35

A 6/7 dman and a guy whoā€™s maybe going to crack your lineup in 4-5 years in that draft pick for Keith who can still play in your top 4 during your teams window? Cmon Oilfans. Blow the torches out.

Jones is top a guaranteed top 4. Ask Adam, he knows.


Are you doing okay this week? You seem overly angry and have made a bunch of these comments now. As someone who does not like to have other people put words in his mouth, that seems oddly hypocritical.



"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789191 is a reply to message #789186 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 11:35

A 6/7 dman and a guy whoā€™s maybe going to crack your lineup in 4-5 years in that draft pick for Keith who can still play in your top 4 during your teams window? Cmon Oilfans. Blow the torches out.


Again - that is not at all the issue. I haven't watched Keith play, but I assume he is still an NHLer. As such, in a vacuum, Jones and a 3rd for Keith would be fine. But it's not in a vacuum. The dollars matter. The timing matters. This is the definition of an unforced error. No retention or no salary going back? No deal. I'm betting the Hawks would have bought him out.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789197 is a reply to message #789191 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
Mike wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 09:09

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 11:35

A 6/7 dman and a guy whoā€™s maybe going to crack your lineup in 4-5 years in that draft pick for Keith who can still play in your top 4 during your teams window? Cmon Oilfans. Blow the torches out.


Again - that is not at all the issue. I haven't watched Keith play, but I assume he is still an NHLer. As such, in a vacuum, Jones and a 3rd for Keith would be fine. But it's not in a vacuum. The dollars matter. The timing matters. This is the definition of an unforced error. No retention or no salary going back? No deal. I'm betting the Hawks would have bought him out.


Iā€™d wager there wouldnā€™t have been a scenario theyā€™d have bought him out. Iā€™d also wager that Edmonton wasnā€™t the only team they were talking with. Yes, the market for him based on his desires was quite limited. But Iā€™m at peace with how it came down as it makes the oilers better for this window that.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789203 is a reply to message #789197 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrusaderPi is currently offline CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 09:48

Mike wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 09:09

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 11:35

A 6/7 dman and a guy whoā€™s maybe going to crack your lineup in 4-5 years in that draft pick for Keith who can still play in your top 4 during your teams window? Cmon Oilfans. Blow the torches out.


Again - that is not at all the issue. I haven't watched Keith play, but I assume he is still an NHLer. As such, in a vacuum, Jones and a 3rd for Keith would be fine. But it's not in a vacuum. The dollars matter. The timing matters. This is the definition of an unforced error. No retention or no salary going back? No deal. I'm betting the Hawks would have bought him out.


Iā€™d wager there wouldnā€™t have been a scenario theyā€™d have bought him out. Iā€™d also wager that Edmonton wasnā€™t the only team they were talking with. Yes, the market for him based on his desires was quite limited. But Iā€™m at peace with how it came down as it makes the oilers better for this window that.

I have a problem simply assuming this.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789205 is a reply to message #789191 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
Mike wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 09:09

Oscargasm wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 11:35

A 6/7 dman and a guy whoā€™s maybe going to crack your lineup in 4-5 years in that draft pick for Keith who can still play in your top 4 during your teams window? Cmon Oilfans. Blow the torches out.


Again - that is not at all the issue. I haven't watched Keith play, but I assume he is still an NHLer. As such, in a vacuum, Jones and a 3rd for Keith would be fine. But it's not in a vacuum. The dollars matter. The timing matters. This is the definition of an unforced error. No retention or no salary going back? No deal. I'm betting the Hawks would have bought him out.


Huge opportunity cost too. Oilers likely took themselves out of contention for better players and really handcuffed their ability to go after higher calibre players this offseason.

More than the player itself, it's really everything around the deal that is the problem, though I do have my worries about the player himself still too.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789207 is a reply to message #789205 ]
Wed, 14 July 2021 11:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
mightyreasoner wrote on Wed, 14 July 2021 13:58

though I do have my worries about the player himself still too.


The scary/sad thing is that I do as well, just that it is far down the list of reasons I hated this trade.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789308 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Thu, 15 July 2021 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
I think Keith plays out this 2 year contract as a solid top 4 D, surprising many (here, and elsewhere), then resigns another 2 years at low cost Oil friendly terms, playing 3rd pair, and Oil fans (most) are happy to have him aboard. icon_nod

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789310 is a reply to message #789308 ]
Thu, 15 July 2021 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 15 July 2021 17:18

I think Keith plays out this 2 year contract as a solid top 4 D, surprising many (here, and elsewhere), then resigns another 2 years at low cost Oil friendly terms, playing 3rd pair, and Oil fans (most) are happy to have him aboard. icon_nod


This is one of the most level headed and logical things Iā€™ve read here, or other online sources, in recent weeks. Thanks Skookum Jim!

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789312 is a reply to message #789310 ]
Thu, 15 July 2021 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 15 July 2021 18:53

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 15 July 2021 17:18

I think Keith plays out this 2 year contract as a solid top 4 D, surprising many (here, and elsewhere), then resigns another 2 years at low cost Oil friendly terms, playing 3rd pair, and Oil fans (most) are happy to have him aboard. icon_nod


This is one of the most level headed and logical things Iā€™ve read here, or other online sources, in recent weeks. Thanks Skookum Jim!


What. I just realized I was mistakenly reading all your Keith posts like they were sarcasm since the speculation thread.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789316 is a reply to message #789312 ]
Thu, 15 July 2021 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 July 2021 19:09

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 15 July 2021 18:53

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 15 July 2021 17:18

I think Keith plays out this 2 year contract as a solid top 4 D, surprising many (here, and elsewhere), then resigns another 2 years at low cost Oil friendly terms, playing 3rd pair, and Oil fans (most) are happy to have him aboard. icon_nod


This is one of the most level headed and logical things Iā€™ve read here, or other online sources, in recent weeks. Thanks Skookum Jim!


What. I just realized I was mistakenly reading all your Keith posts like they were sarcasm since the speculation thread.


Haha. Iā€™m usually quite tongue in cheek, but I truly am in support of Keith being an Oiler and view the acquisition cost not as bad as the masses. Sure, retention would have been nice, should have been done. But Jones is a throw away to me and if it ends up being the second we give them Iā€™ll be hella drunk from a run to the cup final.

Just means some creativity to dress the other holes.

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789323 is a reply to message #789316 ]
Thu, 15 July 2021 20:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 15 July 2021 19:26

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 15 July 2021 19:09

Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 15 July 2021 18:53

Skookum Jim wrote on Thu, 15 July 2021 17:18

I think Keith plays out this 2 year contract as a solid top 4 D, surprising many (here, and elsewhere), then resigns another 2 years at low cost Oil friendly terms, playing 3rd pair, and Oil fans (most) are happy to have him aboard. icon_nod


This is one of the most level headed and logical things Iā€™ve read here, or other online sources, in recent weeks. Thanks Skookum Jim!


What. I just realized I was mistakenly reading all your Keith posts like they were sarcasm since the speculation thread.


Haha. Iā€™m usually quite tongue in cheek, but I truly am in support of Keith being an Oiler and view the acquisition cost not as bad as the masses. Sure, retention would have been nice, should have been done. But Jones is a throw away to me and if it ends up being the second we give them Iā€™ll be hella drunk from a run to the cup final.

Just means some creativity to dress the other holes.


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ActiveSpitefulAtlanticblackgoby-size_restricted.gif

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789314 is a reply to message #789310 ]
Thu, 15 July 2021 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skookum Jim is currently offline Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Thu, 15 July 2021 17:53

This is one of the most level headed and logical things Iā€™ve read here, or other online sources, in recent weeks. Thanks Skookum Jim!


Always here to help! wave

McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789332 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Fri, 16 July 2021 00:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Matty Go Sens @Gerv_Rebrand

Duncan McDavid

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6XjbvrWYAEPrd5?format=jpg&name=small

I'll honestly be disappointed if McDavid doesn't actually look something like that in 10 years. The hockey world deserves him going full McJesus.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789407 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Sat, 17 July 2021 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
Iā€™m still liking the trade šŸ¤·šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļø

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789434 is a reply to message #789407 ]
Sat, 17 July 2021 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
travgwhite is currently offline travgwhite
Messages: 47
Registered: November 2009
Location: toronto
No Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Sat, 17 July 2021 09:17

Iā€™m still liking the trade šŸ¤·šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļø


I'm in the few but like it as well.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789449 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Sun, 18 July 2021 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Vince Dunn also available in the expansion draft apparently as St. Louis leaves both him AND Tarasenko unprotected.

Quote:

Jonathan Willis
@JonathanWillis

From a Seattle perspective, one imagines it's going to be hard to pass on Tarasenko.

On the other hand, for maximum damage, boy oh boy would it stink to be STL, lose Dunn, and then have to try and repair that relationship with Tarasenko.


Quote:

Jonathan Willis
@JonathanWillis

Heck of a kicker to that LRT:

"League sources say Armstrong attempted to move Dunn but might not have received more than a third-round pick in return."


It's hard to over-state just how badly Holland read the market here. He treated the Keith trade as if A) Keith was 5 or so years younger and B) as if it were business as usual. He ignored Keith's no-move, the heavily communicated lack of interest in going just about anywhere else, the implications that would have for Chicago with regards to the expansion draft, and the issues other teams around the league were having protecting their players.

The Oilers hired a dinosaur as their GM, and it's costing us dearly.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789456 is a reply to message #789449 ]
Sun, 18 July 2021 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscargasm is currently offline Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
Adam wrote on Sun, 18 July 2021 00:17

Vince Dunn also available in the expansion draft apparently as St. Louis leaves both him AND Tarasenko unprotected.

Quote:

Jonathan Willis
@JonathanWillis

From a Seattle perspective, one imagines it's going to be hard to pass on Tarasenko.

On the other hand, for maximum damage, boy oh boy would it stink to be STL, lose Dunn, and then have to try and repair that relationship with Tarasenko.


Quote:

Jonathan Willis
@JonathanWillis

Heck of a kicker to that LRT:

"League sources say Armstrong attempted to move Dunn but might not have received more than a third-round pick in return."


It's hard to over-state just how badly Holland read the market here. He treated the Keith trade as if A) Keith was 5 or so years younger and B) as if it were business as usual. He ignored Keith's no-move, the heavily communicated lack of interest in going just about anywhere else, the implications that would have for Chicago with regards to the expansion draft, and the issues other teams around the league were having protecting their players.

The Oilers hired a dinosaur as their GM, and it's costing us dearly.


If Keith was 5 years younger it would have cost a lot more than a 3rd round pick and a bottom pairing dman šŸ¤·šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļø

Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789464 is a reply to message #789456 ]
Sun, 18 July 2021 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike is currently offline Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
And I donā€™t think many appreciate the magnitude of the blunder that is this conditional pick. It essentially takes BOTH our 2nd AND 3rd round picks out of play during the season and at the trade deadline.

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789466 is a reply to message #789464 ]
Sun, 18 July 2021 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrudeRemarks is currently offline CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
Mike wrote on Sun, 18 July 2021 10:30

And I donā€™t think many appreciate the magnitude of the blunder that is this conditional pick. It essentially takes BOTH our 2nd AND 3rd round picks out of play during the season and at the trade deadline.

It's a lot easier to say you'er done for the summer if you can't move your picks.

"The deals just weren't out there." - Ken Holland via Zoom from Kelowna

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.


Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789499 is a reply to message #789456 ]
Sun, 18 July 2021 23:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Oscargasm wrote on Sun, 18 July 2021 09:32

Adam wrote on Sun, 18 July 2021 00:17

Vince Dunn also available in the expansion draft apparently as St. Louis leaves both him AND Tarasenko unprotected.

Quote:

Jonathan Willis
@JonathanWillis

From a Seattle perspective, one imagines it's going to be hard to pass on Tarasenko.

On the other hand, for maximum damage, boy oh boy would it stink to be STL, lose Dunn, and then have to try and repair that relationship with Tarasenko.


Quote:

Jonathan Willis
@JonathanWillis

Heck of a kicker to that LRT:

"League sources say Armstrong attempted to move Dunn but might not have received more than a third-round pick in return."


It's hard to over-state just how badly Holland read the market here. He treated the Keith trade as if A) Keith was 5 or so years younger and B) as if it were business as usual. He ignored Keith's no-move, the heavily communicated lack of interest in going just about anywhere else, the implications that would have for Chicago with regards to the expansion draft, and the issues other teams around the league were having protecting their players.

The Oilers hired a dinosaur as their GM, and it's costing us dearly.


If Keith was 5 years younger it would have cost a lot more than a 3rd round pick and a bottom pairing dman šŸ¤·šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļø


Not necessarily. If a team is in salary cap jail and needs out from a big contract, they don't typically get full value on the transaction.

Hell, we heard this as the justification for the Oilers doing one-for-one deals for Hall & Eberle - we weren't just getting the player back, we were also getting cap space! Chicago got a massive amount of cap space freed up AND an expansion roster spot (which they used to protect Jones) AND they got a young developing defenceman AND a third round pick which could become a 2nd round pick.

If that player has a NMC and won't go anywhere else, then you'd expect the deal to be even worse for the team trading him...even if he was only 33 or 34...

I think even if you like Duncan Keith, which you clearly do, you have to be pretty aware that Holland didn't maximize his advantage here.


"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789519 is a reply to message #788934 ]
Mon, 19 July 2021 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Oilfans alumnus Dennis King tweeting about a Ken Holland appearance on the Bob McCown podcast:

Quote:

Dennis King
@DKingBH

Ken Holland is fine with the way playoff hockey is officiated. So if you wonder 97 isn't getting more calls, this old stupe isn't helping. Go listen to him on the Bob McCown Podcast

...

Holland is more and more mentioning Justin Mahe and analytics when questioned about things. So if you're wondering the next person fired when it goes wrong, that's the guy

...

"Duncan Keith was the #1 dman for TOI on the Hawks....who were in playoff contention until the last 10 or 15 games." Listen to Holland and then go buy some Kraken merch

...

So, here's @JShannonhl on the pod with Holland. "Oilers fans are always apoplectic, Kenny, so never mind that." Awesome. It's not like fanbase hasn't had one terrible GM to live through. And it's not as if anyone can't look at Holland's end in Detroit.

...

"Top four dmen make 4 million dollars. That's what they make. A top dman makes around four million dollars. That's what they make." Holland again & one of the big issues with him/pro scouting. Him and Archie are so out of touch they can't even find a Justin Holl etc etc etc


There's so much bad with this. Not only is Holland making mistakes and continuing to make them, but he's acting wounded by the fan response to his moves. That's not good. If you're confident you've made the right choice, just go about your business. Spending time and energy trying to convince us you're right looks pathetic, desperate and foolish. You'd think a guy who'd been a GM for many years and who has several Stanley Cup rings he likes to remind us of would have a little more self-confidence.

The sooner we're rid of this dinosaur, the better. Although I have no faith that the other dinosaurs at the top of the Oilers organization wouldn't just go hire another fossil in his place. Ken Hitchcock never really has been given a shot to run a team after all...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789527 is a reply to message #789519 ]
Mon, 19 July 2021 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 19 July 2021 10:19

Oilfans alumnus Dennis King tweeting about a Ken Holland appearance on the Bob McCown podcast:

Quote:

Dennis King
@DKingBH

Ken Holland is fine with the way playoff hockey is officiated. So if you wonder 97 isn't getting more calls, this old stupe isn't helping. Go listen to him on the Bob McCown Podcast

...

Holland is more and more mentioning Justin Mahe and analytics when questioned about things. So if you're wondering the next person fired when it goes wrong, that's the guy

...

"Duncan Keith was the #1 dman for TOI on the Hawks....who were in playoff contention until the last 10 or 15 games." Listen to Holland and then go buy some Kraken merch

...

So, here's @JShannonhl on the pod with Holland. "Oilers fans are always apoplectic, Kenny, so never mind that." Awesome. It's not like fanbase hasn't had one terrible GM to live through. And it's not as if anyone can't look at Holland's end in Detroit.

...

"Top four dmen make 4 million dollars. That's what they make. A top dman makes around four million dollars. That's what they make." Holland again & one of the big issues with him/pro scouting. Him and Archie are so out of touch they can't even find a Justin Holl etc etc etc


There's so much bad with this. Not only is Holland making mistakes and continuing to make them, but he's acting wounded by the fan response to his moves. That's not good. If you're confident you've made the right choice, just go about your business. Spending time and energy trying to convince us you're right looks pathetic, desperate and foolish. You'd think a guy who'd been a GM for many years and who has several Stanley Cup rings he likes to remind us of would have a little more self-confidence.

The sooner we're rid of this dinosaur, the better. Although I have no faith that the other dinosaurs at the top of the Oilers organization wouldn't just go hire another fossil in his place. Ken Hitchcock never really has been given a shot to run a team after all...


Shame that we feel that a lack of leadership is why Hellybyuck was spinning on his head, Tippett decided he loved coaching a 1 line team, and he gave Bear 1 shift in 3 OT's and called him off 20 seconds into it with the whole bench ignoring Kyle Connor wide open.

We're not sick of paying a premium for intangibles and past success. Katz has wasted tens of millions on that just in his front office alone, letting dummies run his team for ridiculous salaries because they won cups. Maybe he will learn one day.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789539 is a reply to message #789527 ]
Mon, 19 July 2021 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Kr55 wrote on Mon, 19 July 2021 11:21

Adam wrote on Mon, 19 July 2021 10:19

Oilfans alumnus Dennis King tweeting about a Ken Holland appearance on the Bob McCown podcast:

Quote:

Dennis King
@DKingBH

Ken Holland is fine with the way playoff hockey is officiated. So if you wonder 97 isn't getting more calls, this old stupe isn't helping. Go listen to him on the Bob McCown Podcast

...

Holland is more and more mentioning Justin Mahe and analytics when questioned about things. So if you're wondering the next person fired when it goes wrong, that's the guy

...

"Duncan Keith was the #1 dman for TOI on the Hawks....who were in playoff contention until the last 10 or 15 games." Listen to Holland and then go buy some Kraken merch

...

So, here's @JShannonhl on the pod with Holland. "Oilers fans are always apoplectic, Kenny, so never mind that." Awesome. It's not like fanbase hasn't had one terrible GM to live through. And it's not as if anyone can't look at Holland's end in Detroit.

...

"Top four dmen make 4 million dollars. That's what they make. A top dman makes around four million dollars. That's what they make." Holland again & one of the big issues with him/pro scouting. Him and Archie are so out of touch they can't even find a Justin Holl etc etc etc


There's so much bad with this. Not only is Holland making mistakes and continuing to make them, but he's acting wounded by the fan response to his moves. That's not good. If you're confident you've made the right choice, just go about your business. Spending time and energy trying to convince us you're right looks pathetic, desperate and foolish. You'd think a guy who'd been a GM for many years and who has several Stanley Cup rings he likes to remind us of would have a little more self-confidence.

The sooner we're rid of this dinosaur, the better. Although I have no faith that the other dinosaurs at the top of the Oilers organization wouldn't just go hire another fossil in his place. Ken Hitchcock never really has been given a shot to run a team after all...


Shame that we feel that a lack of leadership is why Hellybyuck was spinning on his head, Tippett decided he loved coaching a 1 line team, and he gave Bear 1 shift in 3 OT's and called him off 20 seconds into it with the whole bench ignoring Kyle Connor wide open.

We're not sick of paying a premium for intangibles and past success. Katz has wasted tens of millions on that just in his front office alone, letting dummies run his team for ridiculous salaries because they won cups. Maybe he will learn one day.


There's definitely lots to question about Tippett and his handling of young defencemen. Jones has a couple rough games early and gets benched for a month. Bouchard has a good game where he gets scored on on all the shots against because the goalie is having a night, and he gets two months off. Bear makes a mistake in a playoff game and doesn't see the ice again for an hour plus. That approach isn't going to make people not make mistakes - it's going to just make them more scared of making mistakes.

It also drives down the value of our own players - if we won't play them, then other teams draw conclusions that we don't value them that highly.

I was pushing for a trade involving Jones some time ago, because I thought the left side was a big jammed for him, and he had more value previously. The Oilers instead go in to the year, scratch him for a big portion of it, erode his value to the point where they considered him almost a throw-in to the deal for Keith. It's disappointing.

I wonder if Keith's leadership can convince Tippett not to immediately abandon his game plan and go back to being a one-line team the second we hit a hot goalie?

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789544 is a reply to message #789539 ]
Mon, 19 July 2021 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kr55 is currently offline Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
Adam wrote on Mon, 19 July 2021 12:04

Kr55 wrote on Mon, 19 July 2021 11:21

Adam wrote on Mon, 19 July 2021 10:19

Oilfans alumnus Dennis King tweeting about a Ken Holland appearance on the Bob McCown podcast:

Quote:

Dennis King
@DKingBH

Ken Holland is fine with the way playoff hockey is officiated. So if you wonder 97 isn't getting more calls, this old stupe isn't helping. Go listen to him on the Bob McCown Podcast

...

Holland is more and more mentioning Justin Mahe and analytics when questioned about things. So if you're wondering the next person fired when it goes wrong, that's the guy

...

"Duncan Keith was the #1 dman for TOI on the Hawks....who were in playoff contention until the last 10 or 15 games." Listen to Holland and then go buy some Kraken merch

...

So, here's @JShannonhl on the pod with Holland. "Oilers fans are always apoplectic, Kenny, so never mind that." Awesome. It's not like fanbase hasn't had one terrible GM to live through. And it's not as if anyone can't look at Holland's end in Detroit.

...

"Top four dmen make 4 million dollars. That's what they make. A top dman makes around four million dollars. That's what they make." Holland again & one of the big issues with him/pro scouting. Him and Archie are so out of touch they can't even find a Justin Holl etc etc etc


There's so much bad with this. Not only is Holland making mistakes and continuing to make them, but he's acting wounded by the fan response to his moves. That's not good. If you're confident you've made the right choice, just go about your business. Spending time and energy trying to convince us you're right looks pathetic, desperate and foolish. You'd think a guy who'd been a GM for many years and who has several Stanley Cup rings he likes to remind us of would have a little more self-confidence.

The sooner we're rid of this dinosaur, the better. Although I have no faith that the other dinosaurs at the top of the Oilers organization wouldn't just go hire another fossil in his place. Ken Hitchcock never really has been given a shot to run a team after all...


Shame that we feel that a lack of leadership is why Hellybyuck was spinning on his head, Tippett decided he loved coaching a 1 line team, and he gave Bear 1 shift in 3 OT's and called him off 20 seconds into it with the whole bench ignoring Kyle Connor wide open.

We're not sick of paying a premium for intangibles and past success. Katz has wasted tens of millions on that just in his front office alone, letting dummies run his team for ridiculous salaries because they won cups. Maybe he will learn one day.


There's definitely lots to question about Tippett and his handling of young defencemen. Jones has a couple rough games early and gets benched for a month. Bouchard has a good game where he gets scored on on all the shots against because the goalie is having a night, and he gets two months off. Bear makes a mistake in a playoff game and doesn't see the ice again for an hour plus. That approach isn't going to make people not make mistakes - it's going to just make them more scared of making mistakes.

It also drives down the value of our own players - if we won't play them, then other teams draw conclusions that we don't value them that highly.

I was pushing for a trade involving Jones some time ago, because I thought the left side was a big jammed for him, and he had more value previously. The Oilers instead go in to the year, scratch him for a big portion of it, erode his value to the point where they considered him almost a throw-in to the deal for Keith. It's disappointing.

I wonder if Keith's leadership can convince Tippett not to immediately abandon his game plan and go back to being a one-line team the second we hit a hot goalie?


I think the main value of Keith will be if he messes up, you never have to think you need to stop playing him. You can just assume he will do better because he's a proven winner. If he keeps messing up over and over, still, keep hoping the eliteness is going to emerge inevitably. That's probably the story if his last season, although he slowly got weaker and weaker competition and lost his spot on the PP as the season wore on.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #789557 is a reply to message #789544 ]
Mon, 19 July 2021 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
Kr55 wrote on Mon, 19 July 2021 12:34


I think the main value of Keith will be if he messes up, you never have to think you need to stop playing him. You can just assume he will do better because he's a proven winner. If he keeps messing up over and over, still, keep hoping the eliteness is going to emerge inevitably. That's probably the story if his last season, although he slowly got weaker and weaker competition and lost his spot on the PP as the season wore on.


That should jive really well with the head coach. He didn't seem to have as much of an issue with errors from Larsson or Nurse or Russell. Hell, Russell kept playing through an entire playoff series where all he did was score on us again and again and again...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #790049 is a reply to message #789557 ]
Fri, 23 July 2021 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skoobz is currently offline Skoobz
Messages: 334
Registered: January 2006
No Cups
I donā€™t know if itā€™s come up in this thread but if it comes out that Keith participated in the homophobic slurs thrown at the abused Blackhawks player (or frankly, it could even be that he heard and saw them happening and didnā€™t, as captain, intervene), Keith may never play a game in Oilers silks.

And yes, I know he wanted out to be closer to his son but thereā€™s a non-zero chance that he wanted out before all the details of this horror show become public.

"[It was] really cool to throw on the Oilers gear, the gear that I want to play the rest of my life wearing. It was pretty cool to put it on. With all the history, it was a lot of fun." - Connor McDavid, July 1, 2015

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #790059 is a reply to message #790049 ]
Fri, 23 July 2021 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
mightyreasoner is currently offline mightyreasoner
Messages: 520
Registered: October 2005
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
Skoobz wrote on Fri, 23 July 2021 14:37

I donā€™t know if itā€™s come up in this thread but if it comes out that Keith participated in the homophobic slurs thrown at the abused Blackhawks player (or frankly, it could even be that he heard and saw them happening and didnā€™t, as captain, intervene), Keith may never play a game in Oilers silks.

And yes, I know he wanted out to be closer to his son but thereā€™s a non-zero chance that he wanted out before all the details of this horror show become public.


It definitely tarnishes the images we've all been fed about Jonathan Toews, Duncan Keith, and others "character guys" who are "good in the locker room." Andrew Shaw and Patrick Kane were already suspect, but this really makes you wonder what all was tolerated in that room. It really is something to not only turn a blind eye, but to joke about the trauma a teammate faced.

There's definitely a lot of media ignoring this, but I appreciate the hounds (Rick Westhead, Katie Strang, others) who are on this. And someone in Edmonton needs to ask Keith about it, though I'm sure he will defer and decline to answer (perhaps with legal obligation to do so).

Send a private message to this user  

 Re: Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #790066 is a reply to message #790059 ]
Fri, 23 July 2021 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inverno76 is currently offline inverno76
Messages: 2340
Registered: September 2005
Location: Prince Albert, Saskatchew...
2 Cups
mightyreasoner wrote on Fri, 23 July 2021 15:12

Skoobz wrote on Fri, 23 July 2021 14:37

I donā€™t know if itā€™s come up in this thread but if it comes out that Keith participated in the homophobic slurs thrown at the abused Blackhawks player (or frankly, it could even be that he heard and saw them happening and didnā€™t, as captain, intervene), Keith may never play a game in Oilers silks.

And yes, I know he wanted out to be closer to his son but thereā€™s a non-zero chance that he wanted out before all the details of this horror show become public.


It definitely tarnishes the images we've all been fed about Jonathan Toews, Duncan Keith, and others "character guys" who are "good in the locker room." Andrew Shaw and Patrick Kane were already suspect, but this really makes you wonder what all was tolerated in that room. It really is something to not only turn a blind eye, but to joke about the trauma a teammate faced.

There's definitely a lot of media ignoring this, but I appreciate the hounds (Rick Westhead, Katie Strang, others) who are on this. And someone in Edmonton needs to ask Keith about it, though I'm sure he will defer and decline to answer (perhaps with legal obligation to do so).


Who in Edmonton would have the nards to ask? Olā€™Matty because heā€™s confused and ancient? The rest of MSM in Edmonton are yes men and would never want to be black listed.


Send a private message to this user  

Pages (9): [ «  <  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  >  »]  
Previous Topic:Review: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #7)
Next Topic:GDT: Edmonton @ Vancouver (Game #7)
Oilers NHL Minors Speculation For Sale 


Copyright © OilFans.com 1996-2022.
All content is property of OilFans.com and cannot be used without expressed, written consent from this site.
Questions, comments and suggestions can be directed to oilfans@OilFans.com
Privacy Statement

Hosted by LogicalHosting.ca