| Duncan Keith to Oilers [message #788934] |
Mon, 12 July 2021 12:36  |
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 Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
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Keith to Edm for Jones and 2022 3rd
Done deal!
https://twitter.com/darrendreger/status/1414654449788796934? s=21
Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty
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CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
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No salary retained. Unbelievable.
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.
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CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
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Some of Edmonton’s glorious, big offseason, cap space is now spoken for.
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.
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So salary retained either! Wow did Holland (or whomever actually made this trade) ever get taken behind the woodshed.
In fairness to Hall, I've wanted to throw a waterbottle at Eakins all season.
~nullterm 03/22/2014
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Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
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One of the worst trades in the history of this franchise. I cannot overstate how stupid this is. Not only did they not retain a dime, we ADD a pick? Absolutely disastrous offseason. There go 2 assets and and like 30% of our cap space. For a 38 year old has been.
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MJ
Messages: 267
Registered: November 1997
Location: Victoria
No Cups
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Just in case you ever wondered if the Oilers finally had a proper management team, here's definitive evidence they are 100% clueless. Cheering for this team is hopeless.
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smyth260
Messages: 1080
Registered: November 2007
1 Cup
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We suck. We freaking suck.
Clean house or bust
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messier11
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2006
Location: Manitoba
No Cups
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I am logging in for the first time in about 3 years to say…why? Why? Why?
This team’s management has no desire to win, all they want to do is massage the buttocks of any “hockey people” that they deem worthy.
I’ve always liked Duncan Keith as a player and I wasn’t opposed to him being on our team but did not think we would have to give up anything for him. My thought was we would give them a 4th and they would eat salary and it would be a win for both teams. Instead they puke up all of our cap space and give away a decent player just to make the hockey gods happy.
I can’t say I watch closely anymore and I don’t know how to just completely stop watching hockey in an era where we finally have players worth watching again but it may very well happen now.
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Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| messier11 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 12:48 |
I am logging in for the first time in about 3 years to say…why? Why? Why?
This team’s management has no desire to win, all they want to do is massage the buttocks of any “hockey people” that they deem worthy.
I’ve always liked Duncan Keith as a player and I wasn’t opposed to him being on our team but did not think we would have to give up anything for him. My thought was we would give them a 4th and they would eat salary and it would be a win for both teams. Instead they puke up all of our cap space and give away a decent player just to make the hockey gods happy.
I can’t say I watch closely anymore and I don’t know how to just completely stop watching hockey in an era where we finally have players worth watching again but it may very well happen now.
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This is pretty incredible. It says to me that Ken Holland just has zero clue when it comes to understanding the leverage he has in a trade situation. Chicago comes to them with a 38 year old player clearly on his last legs with a $5.3MM cap hit. The team not only takes on that player - which would be a risk even if it was Keith at 50% for future considerations - we give them two valuable assets back.
And we don't even find a way to get a third party to take cap hit or anything - just take on a huge cap hit, and leave the local media guys to point out that hey - we're not PAYING him that much this year! If we wanted to get a defenceman who we only paid a small salary to, we could get it without taking on a big cap hit. That's not an advantage.
The craziest thing about this is that clearly, the Oilers management KNOWS what they're doing is going to be seen as foolish. Why else would they spend 10 days socializing this through all their media lackeys? Just like the Taylor Hall trade, they realize that they're going to be roasted over this, and so they spend more time trying to convince us that there's method to their madness than they spent trying to negotiate a decent trade with Chicago (or some other team - because let's face it - there's better options available).
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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JPro
Messages: 810
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
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Classic Chiarelli.
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nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC
1 Cup
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Must be something in the water, and Holland finally hit the required dose for full effect.
Illegitimi non carborundum.
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Mike
Messages: 1397
Registered: August 2005
Location: Moncton, New Brunswick
1 Cup
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There weren't better $5.5M Dmen out there? How much would Barrie have been? I would have taken Barrie at 5X$5.5 with no cost in assets before this.
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Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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The more things change the more they stay the same
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
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Perhaps there may be more to it?
One of Chicago’s reporters;
https://twitter.com/benpopecst/status/1414657939084824578?s= 21
I'm also told there are some minor players/contracts involved in the trade
Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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A real NHL player for a guy who can't quite make the NHL and magic beans. An absolutely perfect hockey trade.
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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smyth260
Messages: 1080
Registered: November 2007
1 Cup
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It really feels like in a single move, Ken Holland just closed any window to be a contender with Draisaitl and McDavid. What a brutal trade on all levels.
Hard to cheer for this team. Really just here to watch the success of Draisaitl and McDavid now. Maybe they can win in spite of management. I'm not cheering for the Oilers beyond their years in Edmonton. We can't even expect common sense in this organization.
Clean house or bust
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Steve
Messages: 113
Registered: October 2006
Location: Ottawa
No Cups
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I would have been OK with a 3rd round pick for Keith, but why are we giving away Jones for free?
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
- Calvin
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JPro
Messages: 810
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton
No Cups
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I'm so glad Holland punted at the trade deadline to ensure he could make this #BoldMove.
I have no one to blame but myself for continuing to support this franchise.
Looking up Kraken jerseys as we speak haha.
[Updated on: Mon, 12 July 2021 12:54]
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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| JPro wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 12:52 |
I'm so glad Holland punted at the trade deadline to ensure he could make this #BoldMove.
I have no one to blame but myself for continuing to support this franchise.
Looking up Kraken jerseys as we speak haha.
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Makes you wonder if he called Chicago to see if Keith was available last year. They probably could have had him for an extra playoff run for free!
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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CrusaderPi
Messages: 7803
Registered: December 2003
Location: AB Highway 100
6 Cups
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Not until McDavid is traded
Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.
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Oscargasm
Messages: 5911
Registered: May 2009
Location: YEG
5 Cups
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Aaaaand Wyshynski puts this out a minute ago;
Some intrigue on the Duncan Keith trade: The third-rounder headed to Chicago with Caleb Jones is a conditional pick, with conditions forthcoming when the deal is NHL approved. The Oilers don't have a 3rd in 2021, FWIW.
Survivor CHAMP S52 | S66
OG's #MUSTWIN Scale
Category 1 - Lightly Musty
Category 2 - Moderately Musty
Category 3 - Considerably Musty
Category 4 - Severely Musty
Category 5 - Incredibly Musty
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K.McC#24
Messages: 2834
Registered: March 2004
Location: ALBERTA
2 Cups
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Pretty horrible trade without salary retention. Gotta think Klef is done, is that how they're going to sell this? Keith shouldn't get more than 2nd pairing minutes here, if that, at 38 fricking years old! This looks like a Chiarelli deal to me.
Nice use of the Nuge cap space, Holland.....does your arse hurt?
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McDavid97
Messages: 99
Registered: July 2007
No Cups
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Ugh no salary retained and include a 3rd...
The Oilers never change....
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jds308
Messages: 119
Registered: September 2007
Location: Summerland
No Cups
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Not crazy about this at all, and certainly am annoyed that no salary is being retained..... But what happens if Keith is actually ok next season? I'm not expecting Norris calibre Keith, but what if he can be a competent, granted overpaid, top 4/5 d man? Do we still continue to riot?
I make music:
Undermaker442
308 Media Group
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Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| jds308 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 13:03 |
Not crazy about this at all, and certainly am annoyed that no salary is being retained..... But what happens if Keith is actually ok next season? I'm not expecting Norris calibre Keith, but what if he can be a competent, granted overpaid, top 4/5 d man? Do we still continue to riot?
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Well, if Jones is a cheap competent 4/5 defenceman next year, than we'll have given up cap space and a third round pick for what?
The cap space is a killer. It means we probably are handcuffed as to how much we can put towards getting anything else up front, or trading for a legitimate #1 goalie because we've tied up an extra $4MM+ in to a depth defenceman. Couldn't we have just re-signed Slater Koekkoek?
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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jds308
Messages: 119
Registered: September 2007
Location: Summerland
No Cups
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| Adam wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 12:06 |
| jds308 wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 13:03 |
Not crazy about this at all, and certainly am annoyed that no salary is being retained..... But what happens if Keith is actually ok next season? I'm not expecting Norris calibre Keith, but what if he can be a competent, granted overpaid, top 4/5 d man? Do we still continue to riot?
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Well, if Jones is a cheap competent 4/5 defenceman next year, than we'll have given up cap space and a third round pick for what?
The cap space is a killer. It means we probably are handcuffed as to how much we can put towards getting anything else up front, or trading for a legitimate #1 goalie because we've tied up an extra $4MM+ in to a depth defenceman. Couldn't we have just re-signed Slater Koekkoek?
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Yeah, I would have thought if we're adding the pick, that should have been for Chi to retain some salary. Don't love this trade at all, but I hope to be proven wrong and hope Keith is pumped and ready to overachieve ala Mike Smith. Not holding my breath though.
I make music:
Undermaker442
308 Media Group
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Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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Let me guess. Chicago trades for Jones and our 3rd is part of what they give Columbus.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC
1 Cup
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Looking for the silver lining....
Jones was 6th in ice time for Dmen and easily swappable with any number of other young Dmen in our system.
Keith at the very least is on our 2nd pairing and maybe helps fill the void Klefbom leaves.
The money sucks, but we weren't getting a Klefbom replacement for nothing.
Illegitimi non carborundum.
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Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
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| nullterm wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 12:19 |
Looking for the silver lining....
Jones was 6th in ice time for Dmen and easily swappable with any number of other young Dmen in our system.
Keith at the very least is on our 2nd pairing and maybe helps fill the void Klefbom leaves.
The money sucks, but we weren't getting a Klefbom replacement for nothing.
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I agree about K-bom replacement from UFA, Hamilton, Martinez, etc weren't coming to E-town..
Its only 2 years..
Expect Neal gets bought out, and Larsson deal doesn't get done until after expansion draft.
McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,
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NZ Oiler Fan
Messages: 1189
Registered: October 2006
Location: Kensington, PEI
1 Cup
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Figured it was inevitable that we would end up with him, but to give up that much to get him with them not retaining anything whatsoever? What happened to our reported "take it or leave it" offer?
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Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| NZ Oiler Fan wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 13:25 |
Figured it was inevitable that we would end up with him, but to give up that much to get him with them not retaining anything whatsoever? What happened to our reported "take it or leave it" offer?
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Spector is reporting that the Oilers FIRST offer was Jones, a 4th and Koskinen. I don't think Holland understood his position or Keith's actual value from the outset.
Bowman came looking for a sucker, and man, did he ever find one here in Edmonton. Clearly, the Oilers didn't learn anything at all from the debacle with Kyle Turris. They're relying entirely on what the player used to be to form their scouting report for what he is now.
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
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| nullterm wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 13:19 |
Looking for the silver lining....
Jones was 6th in ice time for Dmen and easily swappable with any number of other young Dmen in our system.
Keith at the very least is on our 2nd pairing and maybe helps fill the void Klefbom leaves.
The money sucks, but we weren't getting a Klefbom replacement for nothing.
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Very questionable that Keith is a Klefbom replacement. Unless you mean the level of play of an injured Klefbom with one shoulder. Maybe Keith will be in "the best shape of his life" coming in here, maybe he gets a mcdavid bump from a stats pov, but why make the trade today? There is going to be a ton of movement over the coming weeks, was he the best option?
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.
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nullterm
Messages: 1033
Registered: July 2007
Location: Port Moody, BC
1 Cup
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| CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 12:24 |
Very questionable that Keith is a Klefbom replacement.
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Closest available thing.
Illegitimi non carborundum.
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Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| nullterm wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 13:41 |
| CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 12:24 |
Very questionable that Keith is a Klefbom replacement.
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Closest available thing.
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Just excluded ourselves from all the possibilities of teams shopping guys they don't want to protect in the expansion draft, plus UFA's afterwards. All in on Keith hoping he can play like he did 3 years ago again, and I guess the magic leadership powers somehow bleeding out through the lineup which has worked so well for us in the past.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton
1 Cup
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| nullterm wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 13:41 |
| CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 12:24 |
Very questionable that Keith is a Klefbom replacement.
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Closest available thing.
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15 points and a -13 in 54 games last season. KR55 has touched on his advanced stats. I'm not certain he is the closest thing.
You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.
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Adam
Messages: 7174
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
6 Cups
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| nullterm wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 13:41 |
| CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 12:24 |
Very questionable that Keith is a Klefbom replacement.
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Closest available thing.
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It is like six days after the season ended, and there's less cabin time this year than ever, so yeah, I guess you're right. Best to just make your play, tell everyone you replaced Oscar and then go catch some rays out by the lake!
"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks
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Goose
Messages: 1098
Registered: October 2006
Location: Vancouver
1 Cup
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| CrudeRemarks wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 12:24 |
| nullterm wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 13:19 |
Looking for the silver lining....
Jones was 6th in ice time for Dmen and easily swappable with any number of other young Dmen in our system.
Keith at the very least is on our 2nd pairing and maybe helps fill the void Klefbom leaves.
The money sucks, but we weren't getting a Klefbom replacement for nothing.
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Very questionable that Keith is a Klefbom replacement. Unless you mean the level of play of an injured Klefbom with one shoulder. Maybe Keith will be in "the best shape of his life" coming in here, maybe he gets a mcdavid bump from a stats pov, but why make the trade today? There is going to be a ton of movement over the coming weeks, was he the best option?
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If last year is any indication, 2nd pair defencemen don't get to play with McDavid much so I'm not sure that Keith gets a bump there. Other than that I agree with everything you said.
Oilers Goal Differential
17/18: 234 GF / 263 GA (-29)
18/19: 232 GF / 274 GA (-42)
19/20 (82 game pace): 257 GF / 254 GA (+3) in 64 games
2021 (82 game pace):269 GF / 235 GA (+34) after 38 games
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Skookum Jim
Messages: 4418
Registered: March 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
4 Cups
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Looks like Holland can't play poker.
McDAVID! Oh YEAH Baby!!
Tic-Tac-Tao!
Keep on Rockin' in the Free World
P. Chiarelli math.. T. Hall = A. Larsson, Yak= bag o'pucks (OK he got one right...) K. Russell = $4.1 M+NMC, G. Reinhart= M. Barzal + A. Beauvillier, J. Eberle = R. Spooner,
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Kr55
Messages: 10769
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton
6 Cups
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| Skookum Jim wrote on Mon, 12 July 2021 13:20 |
Looks like Holland can't play poker.
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I hope Bowman doesn't gloat that he was going to buy Keith out if the Oilers didn't take him. That would hurt.
"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013
"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015
5 x $5,000,000
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Rocksteady
Messages: 527
Registered: March 2007
No Cups
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This f'n team.
I said Holland has lots of runway, and it just ran out. What a terrible trade.
No salary retention, send Caleb and a conditional pick and ... AND from what I'm hearing.. a NMC.
Wow.
The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.
Generally Disappointed.
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