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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752234 is a reply to message #752231 ]	Thu, 23 January 2020 14:52

Kr55
Messages: 10783
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 23 January 2020 13:59

Here’s a point about McDavid this season. He’s not better win comeback player of the year. They gave it to somebody else for the mid season awards. Should have won it his rookie season too frankly.

Hart
Lindsay
Art Ross
Masterton

Maybe toss in the Messier too

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752235 is a reply to message #752234 ]	Thu, 23 January 2020 14:57

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 23 January 2020 14:52

CrudeRemarks wrote on Thu, 23 January 2020 13:59

Here’s a point about McDavid this season. He’s not better win comeback player of the year. They gave it to somebody else for the mid season awards. Should have won it his rookie season too frankly.

Hart
Lindsay
Art Ross
Masterton

Maybe toss in the Messier too

Oi vey, I should have proofread that before I posted it.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752237 is a reply to message #752235 ]	Thu, 23 January 2020 15:45

Adam
Messages: 7178
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO_ekO8VUAA2iLB?format=png&name=small

Good lord.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752238 is a reply to message #752237 ]	Thu, 23 January 2020 16:06

CrusaderPi
Messages: 7804
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Smartest guy in the room.

Please do not feed the bears. Feeding the bears creates a dependent population unable to survive on their own. Bears.

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752240 is a reply to message #752238 ]	Thu, 23 January 2020 16:09

Adam
Messages: 7178
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

CrusaderPi wrote on Thu, 23 January 2020 16:06

Smartest guy in the room.

#FireBob

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752245 is a reply to message #752237 ]	Thu, 23 January 2020 16:53

CrudeRemarks
Messages: 1703
Registered: November 2010
Location: Edmonton

1 Cup

Adam wrote on Thu, 23 January 2020 15:45

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO_ekO8VUAA2iLB?format=png&name=small

Good lord.

You don’t want the guy with full autonomy also having all the facts. How will you control what does does otherwise?

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you can get a lottery pick.

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752250 is a reply to message #752237 ]	Thu, 23 January 2020 18:18

Kr55
Messages: 10783
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

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Adam wrote on Thu, 23 January 2020 15:45

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO_ekO8VUAA2iLB?format=png&name=small

Good lord.

This is before Holland was actually hired?

Are we getting mad at the Oilers now for not giving out info freely to outside people? :) AFter all these years of guys like MacT leaking and being open books.

Bob sucks, but it make sense to not give candidates all details, especially about your most valuable asset.

[Updated on: Thu, 23 January 2020 18:35]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752262 is a reply to message #752250 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 00:22

smyth260
Messages: 1081
Registered: November 2007

1 Cup

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 23 January 2020 17:18

Adam wrote on Thu, 23 January 2020 15:45

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO_ekO8VUAA2iLB?format=png&name=small

Good lord.

This is before Holland was actually hired?

Are we getting mad at the Oilers now for not giving out info freely to outside people? :) AFter all these years of guys like MacT leaking and being open books.

Bob sucks, but it make sense to not give candidates all details, especially about your most valuable asset.

Yeah I am not sure what to think here. If I had 10 candidates for the job, I am certainly not giving out this information.

I would probably tell the candidate that is getting an offer. It's a pretty important factor to taking the job and being successful. I'd make him sign a confidentiality agreement or something like that, in case he declined the job after that.

Maybe Bobby learned a lesson after willingly giving his thoughts on certain players to season ticket holders.

Clean house or bust

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752307 is a reply to message #752262 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 15:01

Adam
Messages: 7178
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

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smyth260 wrote on Fri, 24 January 2020 00:22

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 23 January 2020 17:18

This is before Holland was actually hired?

Are we getting mad at the Oilers now for not giving out info freely to outside people? :) AFter all these years of guys like MacT leaking and being open books.

Bob sucks, but it make sense to not give candidates all details, especially about your most valuable asset.

Yeah I am not sure what to think here. If I had 10 candidates for the job, I am certainly not giving out this information.

I would probably tell the candidate that is getting an offer. It's a pretty important factor to taking the job and being successful. I'd make him sign a confidentiality agreement or something like that, in case he declined the job after that.

Maybe Bobby learned a lesson after willingly giving his thoughts on certain players to season ticket holders.

It gets worse:

Quote:

Woodguy
@Woodguy55

Holland went out his way on Stauffer's show to mention that Nicholson was "positive" about McDavid's injury before he was hired.

It wasn't until a month in when Holland was on a conference call with 97's rehab team that he learned the true extent of the injury.

Unreal.

My issue on this with Holland is that at the point where Holland began discussing coming over, the Oilers were fixated. They basically lost all interest in everyone else at that point and focused on bringing in the big fish.

They were asking for his plan to build the franchise, and not giving him insight that the whole plan was contingent on a relatively big risk paying off...And then it took them another month to come clean...

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752313 is a reply to message #752307 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 15:22

Kr55
Messages: 10783
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Adam wrote on Fri, 24 January 2020 15:01

smyth260 wrote on Fri, 24 January 2020 00:22

Kr55 wrote on Thu, 23 January 2020 17:18

This is before Holland was actually hired?

Are we getting mad at the Oilers now for not giving out info freely to outside people? :) AFter all these years of guys like MacT leaking and being open books.

Bob sucks, but it make sense to not give candidates all details, especially about your most valuable asset.

Yeah I am not sure what to think here. If I had 10 candidates for the job, I am certainly not giving out this information.

I would probably tell the candidate that is getting an offer. It's a pretty important factor to taking the job and being successful. I'd make him sign a confidentiality agreement or something like that, in case he declined the job after that.

Maybe Bobby learned a lesson after willingly giving his thoughts on certain players to season ticket holders.

It gets worse:

Quote:

Woodguy
@Woodguy55

Holland went out his way on Stauffer's show to mention that Nicholson was "positive" about McDavid's injury before he was hired.

It wasn't until a month in when Holland was on a conference call with 97's rehab team that he learned the true extent of the injury.

Unreal.

My issue on this with Holland is that at the point where Holland began discussing coming over, the Oilers were fixated. They basically lost all interest in everyone else at that point and focused on bringing in the big fish.

They were asking for his plan to build the franchise, and not giving him insight that the whole plan was contingent on a relatively big risk paying off...And then it took them another month to come clean...

Heard the interview. I recall Holland saying it was only some days after he was hired when he got that full briefing on a call with the full medical staff. Woodguy is probably confusing that with the earlier talk about how there was a month between McDavid's injury and when Holland was hired. I don't think Holland is so irresponsible that he would wait a month to get an update from the professionals involved and just got off bumbling Bob's word.

Could be the case that Nicholson signed an NDA as well. It would have been smart for McDavid's camp to keep loose lips shut as much as possible to protect him from any outside pressure.

Also, a month after the injury, very likely that the PCL would have been reattached already in the healing process, which was the major hurdle in his recovery and the the hump to get over to remove the need for surgery. 6 weeks in the healing was to the point where McDavid was rehabbing in pools. By then, he's way way ahead of where he would have been with a surgery.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 January 2020 17:18]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752258 is a reply to message #735721 ]	Thu, 23 January 2020 21:39

Kr55
Messages: 10783
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Terry Jones has some spoilers for anyone interested

https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/columnists/jones-mcdavid-kne e-injury-documentary-bares-harrowing-journey-of-non-surgery- route

Sounds like surgery had a lot of risks, and very likely would have made him lose a step.

Even picking rehab, he was close to a breaking point where they had to give up and go back to surgery, but were very fortunate that the PCL started healing together on its own.

It's scary to think how close McDavid was to having his career horribly altered. All so Gio didn't have to feel a bit embarrassed in a meaningless game, going for the all in reckless play to make sure McDavid couldn't get by him no matter if he got the puck or not.

[Updated on: Thu, 23 January 2020 21:42]

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752263 is a reply to message #735721 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 01:34

Bigfan
Messages: 7
Registered: August 2006

No Cups

Wow. I’m glad I was blissfully unaware of all this at the time.

If Connor has fully recovered - and he now skates like he has - then his knee is no more vulnerable than before. Some goof targeting his knee is still a risk, but no greater than before. Sharing the whole story with the world seems a great idea that doesn’t reveal a weakness but rather adds to the legend. Can we now refer to “his Connor’s knee” when referring to a person’s amazing return from a major setback just like we refer to “his Achilles’ heal” when referring to a person’s key weakness or “his Midas’ touch” for a person’s ability to make money?

This could transform Connor’s captaincy - pull the rest of the Oil to do whatever it takes. Are the hockey gods about to smile on us again after our D+oD?

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752269 is a reply to message #752263 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 09:23

Kr55
Messages: 10783
Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Bigfan wrote on Fri, 24 January 2020 01:34

Wow. I’m glad I was blissfully unaware of all this at the time.

If Connor has fully recovered - and he now skates like he has - then his knee is no more vulnerable than before. Some goof targeting his knee is still a risk, but no greater than before. Sharing the whole story with the world seems a great idea that doesn’t reveal a weakness but rather adds to the legend. Can we now refer to “his Connor’s knee” when referring to a person’s amazing return from a major setback just like we refer to “his Achilles’ heal” when referring to a person’s key weakness or “his Midas’ touch” for a person’s ability to make money?

This could transform Connor’s captaincy - pull the rest of the Oil to do whatever it takes. Are the hockey gods about to smile on us again after our D+oD?

I don't see any indication of who exactly initiated this special. It sounds like McDavid was actually approached by his agency to do this, and sponsors (addidas mainly) came in to fund the production. It is McDavid's medical case, so I would assume he has 100% right to have the info out there or not. I think he genuinely wants to inform people about how his PCL injury was handled. There is still lots of disagreement about how these kinds of injuries should be dealt with. McDavid had to break some new ground here, and did something very unique.

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752264 is a reply to message #735721 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 08:23

JPro
Messages: 810
Registered: January 2006
Location: Edmonton

No Cups

This is a great story. I really wish I heard it in 15 years though. I'm going to get anxiety every time he falls on that knee now. Don't hit my boy!

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752267 is a reply to message #735721 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 09:18

Rocksteady
Messages: 527
Registered: March 2007

No Cups

I can't wait to see this show tonight.

Can you imagine if McDavid chose surgery and it was possible he had to hang it up what a tragedy that would be?

I felt lied to by the Oilers, they don't care about the fans only our money. This is not a sudden realization however.

Wow. Also Connor with his dedication, with his perseverance he is a special type of human to get through this. Amazing kid.

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752268 is a reply to message #752267 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 09:20

Kr55
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Registered: May 2002
Location: Edmonton

6 Cups

Rocksteady wrote on Fri, 24 January 2020 09:18

I can't wait to see this show tonight.

Can you imagine if McDavid chose surgery and it was possible he had to hang it up what a tragedy that would be?

I felt lied to by the Oilers, they don't care about the fans only our money. This is not a sudden realization however.

Wow. Also Connor with his dedication, with his perseverance he is a special type of human to get through this. Amazing kid.

Well geez, thanks for mentioning it was today. I thought this was only showing tomorrow :)

"We need to get better immediately. That starts today"
- Lowe, 2013

"Next year I would forecast as another developmental year"
- MacT, 2015

5 x $5,000,000

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752271 is a reply to message #752268 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 09:34

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

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Kr55 wrote on Fri, 24 January 2020 09:20

Rocksteady wrote on Fri, 24 January 2020 09:18

I can't wait to see this show tonight.

Can you imagine if McDavid chose surgery and it was possible he had to hang it up what a tragedy that would be?

I felt lied to by the Oilers, they don't care about the fans only our money. This is not a sudden realization however.

Wow. Also Connor with his dedication, with his perseverance he is a special type of human to get through this. Amazing kid.

Well geez, thanks for mentioning it was today. I thought this was only showing tomorrow :)

I have it recorded. It's going to be interesting for sure. It will most definitely cement the growing legend of McDavid.

Off topic slightly. With McDavid's injury and his decision to go the rehab route which I am guessing is the harder way to go considering the small amount we have heard to date about the insane work he had to do, eating, etc. I wonder if that played at all into the Lucic trade?

I am sure with Chia being gone, the trade was more likely. But if you are the new GM and you see your captain going through absolute hell to get back. You hear about other guys like Leon who is supposed to be a training nut. So your younger guys are busting their absolute ASS to get better, then you have the vet Lucic. His skills are declining, the game is changing and as a result he needs to change as a player which requires him to train differently. He's been on record multiple times arrogantly scoffing at the idea of changing what he does and based on the continuing bad results there being not even the smallest improvement, it's hard to argue he's changed at all, this season included. I do wonder if it solidified the need to get rid of him.

Maybe I am the type that thinks more into things than is really there. Maybe these athletes don't give a crap, they only worry about themselves and do what they want. But if it was me and I was on the team with McDavid and before the injury and am still. I heard what my captain and best player did just to play and then to come back and look better than ever, how can that not make you look in the mirror even a tiny bit and ask yourself am I really pushing? You don't worry about the skill because no one is as skilled as McDavid but you can definitely work harder to improve on whatever it is you need to work on. He's working 8, 10 hrs a day just to physically get back on the ice. Could other guys maybe push back that summer tee time from the usual time an hour so they get in a couple of reps. I am not saying these guys don't work out, I am sure they do. I just wonder if it inspires guys who maybe could do a tiny bit extra to do it.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 January 2020 09:45]

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752274 is a reply to message #752271 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 09:51

Rocksteady
Messages: 527
Registered: March 2007

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RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 January 2020 09:34

...

Off topic slightly. With McDavid's injury and his decision to go the rehab route which I am guessing is the harder way to go considering the small amount we have heard to date about the insane work he had to do, eating, etc. I wonder if that played at all into the Lucic trade?

I am sure with Chia being gone, the trade was more likely. But if you are the new GM and you see your captain going through absolute hell to get back. You hear about other guys like Leon who is supposed to be a training nut. So your younger guys are busting their absolute ASS to get better, then you have the vet Lucic. His skills are declining, the game is changing and as a result he needs to change as a player which requires him to train differently. He's been on record multiple times arrogantly scoffing at the idea of changing what he does and based on the continuing bad results there being not even the smallest improvement, it's hard to argue he's changed at all, this season included. I do wonder if it solidified the need to get rid of him.

Maybe I am the type that thinks more into things than is really there. Maybe these athletes don't give a crap, they only worry about themselves and do what they want. But if it was me and I was on the team with McDavid and before the injury and am still. I heard what my captain and best player did just to play and then to come back and look better than ever, how can that not make you look in the mirror even a tiny bit and ask yourself am I really pushing? You don't worry about the skill because no one is as skilled as McDavid but you can definitely work harder to improve on whatever it is you need to work on. He's working 8, 10 hrs a day just to physically get back on the ice. Could other guys maybe push back that summer tee time from the usual time an hour so they get in a couple of reps. I am not saying these guys don't work out, I am sure they do. I just wonder if it inspires guys who maybe could do a tiny bit extra to do it.

Yeah you are putting way too much time thinking about this, I'm certain there is no connection between what McDavid was going through and Lucic.

You're a deep thinker RD, but this is waaaaay too deep. Come up for some air!

The very definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing expecting different results.

Generally Disappointed.

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752276 is a reply to message #752274 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 09:56

RDOilerfan
Messages: 3908
Registered: January 2016

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Rocksteady wrote on Fri, 24 January 2020 09:51

RDOilerfan wrote on Fri, 24 January 2020 09:34

...

Off topic slightly. With McDavid's injury and his decision to go the rehab route which I am guessing is the harder way to go considering the small amount we have heard to date about the insane work he had to do, eating, etc. I wonder if that played at all into the Lucic trade?

I am sure with Chia being gone, the trade was more likely. But if you are the new GM and you see your captain going through absolute hell to get back. You hear about other guys like Leon who is supposed to be a training nut. So your younger guys are busting their absolute ASS to get better, then you have the vet Lucic. His skills are declining, the game is changing and as a result he needs to change as a player which requires him to train differently. He's been on record multiple times arrogantly scoffing at the idea of changing what he does and based on the continuing bad results there being not even the smallest improvement, it's hard to argue he's changed at all, this season included. I do wonder if it solidified the need to get rid of him.

Maybe I am the type that thinks more into things than is really there. Maybe these athletes don't give a crap, they only worry about themselves and do what they want. But if it was me and I was on the team with McDavid and before the injury and am still. I heard what my captain and best player did just to play and then to come back and look better than ever, how can that not make you look in the mirror even a tiny bit and ask yourself am I really pushing? You don't worry about the skill because no one is as skilled as McDavid but you can definitely work harder to improve on whatever it is you need to work on. He's working 8, 10 hrs a day just to physically get back on the ice. Could other guys maybe push back that summer tee time from the usual time an hour so they get in a couple of reps. I am not saying these guys don't work out, I am sure they do. I just wonder if it inspires guys who maybe could do a tiny bit extra to do it.

Yeah you are putting way too much time thinking about this, I'm certain there is no connection between what McDavid was going through and Lucic.

You're a deep thinker RD, but this is waaaaay too deep. Come up for some air!

I'd like to think these guys actually give a damn and something like this would fire the team up and make them want to push to be better but in reality, that's probably asking too much. McDavid is a special breed and the majority of them will just do the bare minimum.

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Re: McDavid Injury is a PCL [message #752285 is a reply to message #752274 ]	Fri, 24 January 2020 11:57

Adam
Messages: 7178
Registered: August 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB

6 Cups

Rocksteady wrote on Fri, 24 January 2020 09:51

Yeah you are putting way too much time thinking about this, I'm certain there is no connection between what McDavid was going through and Lucic.

You're a deep thinker RD, but this is waaaaay too deep. Come up for some air!

Yeah, I just don't see it.

Lucic asked multiple times for a trade out of Edmonton, and Calgary was willing to give us a clearly better player for him, almost straight across. It was a no-brainer and if the GM wasn't looking to do a deal like that with virtually no downside, then he would have been incredibly inept at his job.

"Thinking that a bad team's best players are the reason the team is bad is the "Tambellini re-signing Lennart Petrell" of sports opinions." @Woodguy55
#FireBobbyNicks

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